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Is the Indian cricket team's glory based on hype and home advantage?

Ozeirk

Ozeirk

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Indian has not done anything of note in recent years outside of India and Sri Lanka barring the Australian series. Their record outside of Asia remains pretty similar to the 90s India where they were beaten black and blue whenever they visited SENA countries.

One thing to note however is whenever a team has visited India they had made sure the pitches are fully doctored to completely nullify any advantage the visiting team may have. The pitch has always been part of parcel of their strategy in winning games within India whereas countries like England there has been at times pitches that provide decent support to visiting teams as well as opposed to taking them out of the game from day 1.

Is it safe to assume that a lot of the hype this team has had has been due to their record at home helped by pitches and media?
 
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They’re a genuinely great team but not nearly as great as they should be given the circumstances and state of world cricket. If I was an Indian fan I would be very very disappointed with how things have turned out for my team over the last 6 or 7 years.
 
Oh dear! So many threads same things again and again.

India is a great team for subcontinent conditions and Australia/South Africa/West Indies but not good enough in England/New Zealand. Simple as that.
 
Good team but nothing special, couldn't even dominate the ICC tournaments in such a poor period for cricket at the moment.
 
Ab Fan said:
Oh dear! So many threads same things again and again.

India is a great team for subcontinent conditions and Australia/South Africa/West Indies but not good enough in England/New Zealand. Simple as that.
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What have we achieved in South Africa?
 
Well let's be honest here - if the opposition teams actually bothered to invest in building world class spinners, India wouldn't dare to offer the sort of underprepared pitches they have been. Australia came in 2017 with two world class spinners and Indian batting was ravaged in the first two tests to such an extent that India had to go back to flat pitches mid series and it took some outrageously good batting performances from a couple of batsmen for India to save the series. Well guess what? Indian batting is 10 times worse now.

What Indian team has been doing at home is not indicative of a champion team aspiring to dominate world cricket. It's indicative of a team which wants to be invincible at home by hook or by crook and regardless of the criticism; it's a smart strategy because visiting teams have been continually dumb enough to come to India with bits and pieces spinners.

It's for this reason that I'm incredibly hyped to see how NZ is planning to develop a couple of world class spinners before they visit India later this year. Because make no mistake about it, Kohli and Shastri would be licking their lips to make sure the pitches in the series make the pitches in the recent India-Eng series look like a stroll in the park.

NZ is not just another team now. The spotlight is now firmly on them post WTC and they would love to stamp their authority once and for all by beating India in India. It's a shame we would only have 2 Tests, because I'm looking forward to that series even more than the upcoming India-Eng series.
 
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Ab Fan said:
Oh dear! So many threads same things again and again.

India is a great team for subcontinent conditions and Australia/South Africa/West Indies but not good enough in England/New Zealand. Simple as that.
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What happened to Kohli and his GOAT innings in WTC final though ?
 
Saurav said:
What have we achieved in South Africa?
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We won 5-1 in ODI series in South Africa and competed well in tests there. If not for individual match winning performances from SA, we would have won the series.
 
You could just about make the same argument for NZ and it would still hold true.

India, like NZ, is a very good team but not without its deficiencies in specific conditions.
 
Ab Fan said:
Oh dear! So many threads same things again and again.

India is a great team for subcontinent conditions and Australia/South Africa/West Indies but not good enough in England/New Zealand. Simple as that.
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LOL at south africa.Recently india lost 2-1 in South Africa.They are very bad in South Africa.India is only good in Australia.India is awful in 3 SENA countries.
 
India is just a decent team with overhyped players and they get humiliated every time they step in 3 SENA countries.
 
Ab Fan said:
Oh dear! So many threads same things again and again.

India is a great team for subcontinent conditions and Australia/South Africa/West Indies but not good enough in England/New Zealand. Simple as that.
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They haven't won a test series in SA and were pretty thoroughly beaten last time against the weakest SA test side in my memory. They are good now in Aus but I doubt that wil be the case next tour and west indies...well are west indies.

This is nothing a great side to be proud of. I have seen plenty of your posts here, which are often hysterical and overhyped, now you need to be more grounded and admit this team needs al ot of work and has never been great.
 
mastimasti said:
They haven't won a test series in SA and were pretty thoroughly beaten last time against the weakest SA test side in my memory.
.
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Weakest SA team in memory ? with Steyn, Morkel, Rabada, Philander, you seem to know what you are talking about..
 
mastimasti said:
They haven't won a test series in SA and were pretty thoroughly beaten last time against the weakest SA test side in my memory. They are good now in Aus but I doubt that wil be the case next tour and west indies...well are west indies.

This is nothing a great side to be proud of. I have seen plenty of your posts here, which are often hysterical and overhyped, now you need to be more grounded and admit this team needs al ot of work and has never been great.
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'Weakest SA side' statement puts your argument pretty weak here. The same team also beat Australia a month later.

That SA side had four truly great pacers, two great batsman, two quality openers, a world class keeper bat and a decent captain who is good enough to hold a bat.

They won the test series but it was down to individual brilliance from one of their batsman who had a point to prove and their bowling was great. But we did competed well there.

Regarding my posts that are overhyped argument, you are again deluded enough to think that way because I didn't hyped this side as ATG team at any point to begin with. I even remember myself defending that SA team of 2008-14 are still better than this. However, winning a test series in Australia twice and beating everyone at home, Sri Lanka and Windies is itself a huge achievement too.
 
Except for the vulnerability to swing, they are a good team. They can play pace & bounce well- which is why they succeed in Australia. Swing though is their weakest point - none of the players barring Kohli can play swing & he is severely out of form. Even their main bowlers cant swing! I guess they need a Bhuvaneshwar Kumar esque kind of bowler or two soon. And also a pace batting allrounder who can replace Jadeja.
 
Ab Fan said:
We won 5-1 in ODI series in South Africa and competed well in tests there. If not for individual match winning performances from SA, we would have won the series.
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Since when you started taking LOI's seriously. I thought you only rated performances in tests and we haven't done anything special in South Africa too. :inti
 
They are a real good team, but given the financial resources at disposal and a passionate population (heavy talent pool) the results are disappointing.

I wouldn't say they are overhyped though. An Aussie series win would get anyone happy so I understand them flexing that on this forum all the time.

But definitely can not compare this side to Aussies or Windies of the past.
Save for the ashes 2005, which was mercilessly avenged in 2007. The 2000s Aussie side destroyed everything in its path...ICC trophies, away tours, even a world XI.
 
Proactive_ said:
Well let's be honest here - if the opposition teams actually bothered to invest in building world class spinners, India wouldn't dare to offer the sort of underprepared pitches they have been. Australia came in 2017 with two world class spinners and Indian batting was ravaged in the first two tests to such an extent that India had to go back to flat pitches mid series and it took some outrageously good batting performances from a couple of batsmen for India to save the series. Well guess what? Indian batting is 10 times worse now.

What Indian team has been doing at home is not indicative of a champion team aspiring to dominate world cricket. It's indicative of a team which wants to be invincible at home by hook or by crook and regardless of the criticism; it's a smart strategy because visiting teams have been continually dumb enough to come to India with bits and pieces spinners.

It's for this reason that I'm incredibly hyped to see how NZ is planning to develop a couple of world class spinners before they visit India later this year. Because make no mistake about it, Kohli and Shastri would be licking their lips to make sure the pitches in the series make the pitches in the recent India-Eng series look like a stroll in the park.

NZ is not just another team now. The spotlight is now firmly on them post WTC and they would love to stamp their authority once and for all by beating India in India. It's a shame we would only have 2 Tests, because I'm looking forward to that series even more than the upcoming India-Eng series.
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World cricket, especially test cricket, has reached the point where teams will do anything in their power to win a game. This mostly comes down to the pitches, which are the most important factor.

Any team will logically create a pitch to favor their own strengths and expose the weaknesses of the other team.

It's not a wrong mindset, but it does mean that almost every single cricket board will do this, and so teams should not really count on winning anything overseas.

ICC itself is a biased organization, so I wouldn't leave them in charge of making the pitches either, so we remain in this loophole of "is it really fair", which doesn't really have an end.

The bottom line is that there is no clearcut answer to this problem, and ICC lacks any shred of competence to do their job and find a middle ground.
 
Mediocre team at its very best and can compete in conditions that favor their batsmen.I cannot see them playing out of their skin to save or win a test match under kohli
 
Civil said:
They are a real good team, but given the financial resources at disposal and a passionate population (heavy talent pool) the results are disappointing.

I wouldn't say they are overhyped though. An Aussie series win would get anyone happy so I understand them flexing that on this forum all the time.

But definitely can not compare this side to Aussies or Windies of the past.
Save for the ashes 2005, which was mercilessly avenged in 2007. The 2000s Aussie side destroyed everything in its path...ICC trophies, away tours, even a world XI.
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I think you're forgetting a few series with the past Indian side of 00s that challenged that Australian side the most.
 
street cricketer said:
I think you're forgetting a few series with the past Indian side of 00s that challenged that Australian side the most.
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India was just an aberration for that Australian side, final frontier as Steve Waugh rightly called it.

Apart from India, they won pretty much everything in sight, that too by mostly white washing the opponents. 3 back to back WCs attest to that, 2 out of those 3 undefeated!

Whereas us....well let's not get started. Except for Australia, WI and SL tours, we haven't won anything which challenges a team aiming to get equal with that Australian team.
 
MP2011 said:
India was just an aberration for that Australian side, final frontier as Steve Waugh rightly called it.

Apart from India, they won pretty much everything in sight, that too by mostly white washing the opponents. 3 back to back WCs attest to that, 2 out of those 3 undefeated!

Whereas us....well let's not get started. Except for Australia, WI and SL tours, we haven't won anything which challenges a team aiming to get equal with that Australian team.
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Actually, they lost to Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka also in 1999 and England in 2005.
 
Ab Fan said:
Actually, they lost to Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka also in 1999 and England in 2005.
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The current Indian team can not be compare with the great Australian side. This Indian side has not won an ICC tournament since 2013 thats almost a decade ago life span for most teams. They have also now lost CTW final. The Australian won 3 back to back WCs and stayed number 1 in the two formats that were relevant at the time.
 
Batting is the weakness which isn't something that you normally associate with Indian Test sides.

Especially in overseas conditions when the ball is seaming around.
 
Indian team must understand that Pujara and Rahane do not have a pedigree of Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag or Ganguly, hence they need to phase them out sooner if not now.

The chief contributors in India's win in Australia last year were :-

Rishabh Pant ( Age -23)
Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Shubhman Gill (Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 29)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)

Hence, it is important to blood in young guns and give them experience to start performing in test cricket. They got the chances in Australia and they proved that they belong here.

We should make sure we give the chances to below names in the England series:-

Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
KL Rahul( Age - 28)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 30)
 
Ab Fan said:
Actually, they lost to Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka also in 1999 and England in 2005.
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In 1999, Australia wasn't as invincible as they were from 2000 onwards. The same can be gauged by the fact that they won '99 WC with quite a few hiccups.

As for Ashes'05, yes that was an aberration too especially considering that only 2 tests they lost in that series, they didn't have their talisman McGrath in the XI.
 
W/L of over 1 in the last 5 years outside of the home. Far ahead of others.

away.jpg

W/L of over 1 is really a great one for away in any era.

To put it in context,

W/L away in 80s.
80s.jpg

If the expectation is to match WI and Aus then surely it's hype. India did not have a team to match them.
 
Ab Fan said:
Indian team must understand that Pujara and Rahane do not have a pedigree of Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag or Ganguly, hence they need to phase them out sooner if not now.

The chief contributors in India's win in Australia last year were :-

Rishabh Pant ( Age -23)
Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Shubhman Gill (Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 29)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)

Hence, it is important to blood in young guns and give them experience to start performing in test cricket. They got the chances in Australia and they proved that they belong here.

We should make sure we give the chances to below names in the England series:-

Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
KL Rahul( Age - 28)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 30)
Click to expand...

It’s interesting that most of the Indian players that got India into the WTC final, got to play the final.

That said, India can be a stronger team if they can start using their home games to prepare better for NZ and Eng.
 
Ab Fan said:
Indian team must understand that Pujara and Rahane do not have a pedigree of Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag or Ganguly, hence they need to phase them out sooner if not now.

The chief contributors in India's win in Australia last year were :-

Rishabh Pant ( Age -23)
Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Shubhman Gill (Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 29)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)

Hence, it is important to blood in young guns and give them experience to start performing in test cricket. They got the chances in Australia and they proved that they belong here.

We should make sure we give the chances to below names in the England series:-

Washington Sundar ( Age - 21)
Mohammad Siraj ( Age - 27)
KL Rahul( Age - 28)
Hanuma Vihari ( Age - 27)
Shardul Thakur ( Age - 30)
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Tbh a lot of these players are new and Australia had never seen them before except for Pant. If they encounter them again, they will do their homework on them.

Pant outside Australia has not been consistent and has been found wanting in seaming conditions
 
Buffet said:
W/L of over 1 in the last 5 years outside of the home. Far ahead of others.


W/L of over 1 is really a great one for away in any era.

To put it in context,

W/L away in 80s.

If the expectation is to match WI and Aus then surely it's hype. India did not have a team to match them.
Click to expand...




Exclude WI and SriLanka and watch those figures get messed up big time for this 'Aussies of the 2010-20's' lol

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...anval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

Indian-Tests-Record.jpg


Everytime the team wins, you guys hype it to the moon and whenever it loses (which is any good team outside Asia and Australia), there is always some fluke by the other team, or schedule not being fair etc.
 
Which Asian team has the talent and skill to win two Test series in Australia? Which team has the guts, the mentality and the character?

There is one certain team with “bohat talent” that has lost every single match in Australia since 1999, and the last time it did not lose a match in Australia, Javed Miandad was still playing international cricket.

Learn to respect teams and cricketers that have achieved far more than what your own team can manage or ever will manage.

It is easy to laugh and criticize those who are far better than you, but it takes character to look in the mirror and acknowledge your own mediocrity.

Pakistani fans should be the last fans on earth to brush off and ignore performances in Australia, considering how we have stank up the place with our mediocrity and lack of talent for 21+ years.
 
For all the hype from some posters they got beat easily by an efficient NZ team. This Ind team had in theory all the basis covered in terms of experience(only Gill can claim to be inexperienced) and although it remains a good team, otherwise wouldnt have reached the final, it froze on the big day.
 
Yes my team's weakness is exposed badly in away series but in tgat case what about opposition teams loving away in india?
After all as some posters.says we are all hype and flat track bullys than isn't it easy to play on flat tracks than green tops?
Same rules apply to visitors as well, why criticise only india?
When they visit us and lose, it's OK as visitors are not familiar with Indian conditions but when india lose away they are ridiculed.
But of course point is still valid that we realy very poor away and need to accept it.
We do not deserve best team, but no one else claim same till they win in India
 
India has a great squad but a hopelessly inept captain

I mean a guy like Rahane won us test series against full strength Australia with a B team & Kohli cannot even beat New Zealand with a full strength team

If BCCI has the balls to remove Kohli as captain - this side will dominate world cricekt
 
Bewal Express said:
For all the hype from some posters they got beat easily by an efficient NZ team. This Ind team had in theory all the basis covered in terms of experience(only Gill can claim to be inexperienced) and although it remains a good team, otherwise wouldnt have reached the final, it froze on the big day.
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Shhh, don't say the common sense stuff and how dare you question the 'Greatest Asian Team' as some closet ones were busy labelling/hyping it for last few months. Indian fans problem is there are so many outlets (media/social media, money hungry ex-cricketers, IPL contracted players etc.) who are always willing to hype the Indian team and players to the moon that they (fans) start believing maybe Clive Llyod's team ain't got nothing on our team and all :-P

No one can deny Indian team (maybe) deserved to be there (avoiding playing Pakistan and having a favorable schedule etc. be damned) but sign of an exceptionally great team is that they don't get bowled out for two sub 220 scores and allow the opposition to win by a huge margin of 8 wickets!

I know things will trun around real quick, India will invite one of the teams to India and Ashwin/Jadeja will turn in to Daenerys' dragons and breath proper fire as well...after some properly doctored pitch aided wins, India will be better than Lloyd and Ponting's teams, combined.:yk
 
Just a word of caution - don't fall for the same trick twice in the space of six months. ;)

We came back in grand fashion after 36/9 in Australia, who knows, what happens if we resurrect ourselves to beat England in England over the course of 5 tests as well?
 
Monsee said:
Shhh, don't say the common sense stuff and how dare you question the 'Greatest Asian Team' as some closet ones were busy labelling/hyping it for last few months. Indian fans problem is there are so many outlets (media/social media, money hungry ex-cricketers, IPL contracted players etc.) who are always willing to hype the Indian team and players to the moon that they (fans) start believing maybe Clive Llyod's team ain't got nothing on our team and all :-P

No one can deny Indian team (maybe) deserved to be there (avoiding playing Pakistan and having a favorable schedule etc. be damned) but sign of an exceptionally great team is that they don't get bowled out for two sub 220 scores and allow the opposition to win by a huge margin of 8 wickets!

I know things will trun around real quick, India will invite one of the teams to India and Ashwin/Jadeja will turn in to Daenerys' dragons and breath proper fire as well...after some properly doctored pitch aided wins, India will be better than Lloyd and Ponting's teams, combined.:yk
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Some very salient points. Just to add,if Jameison( who is a very good bowler) can do this to a team what would the likes of Garner, Marshall and Holding have done? This Indian team is a good team and will beat a pretty poor England team, but under pressure they wilted against NZ.
 
Pound for Pound one of the weakest nations in cricket.

A population of 1.3b. Millions spent on cricket, the only real sport the nation places but has never dominated cricket.

Imagine if Australia or NZ had these resources? Even if Pak had the money of the BCCI they would do much better than India.

Too mean physically weak players, too many bottom handed batsmen unable to play swing. Too many rockstars thinking they are on par with Le Bron or Ronaldo because they have earned money playing IPL.

On top of this they wont play Pakistan lol.

Deserve to lose the final to a better team.
 
A good team, not a great team. Unless they win a series in England and a ICC tournament, they will be considered as underachievers by history. Strong teams are expected to win at home.

They certainly have the best bowling attack in Indian history, but their batting is notoriously weak in swinging conditions and chokes in high pressure moments. I don't consider them a better all-round side than India 2007-2011.

I consider them similar to Hansie Croje's South Africa of the 90s, a fine side with some decent achievements like winning in the subcontinent, but lacking silverware and failing in certain high profile series.
 
The team has its flaws and the batting, in particular, has been poor for some time. Having said that, even a team like NZ has won away in only 2 places - England and UAE. They couldnt win in SL so I'm not sure why India's away series win in SL is being discounted. And I'm sure everyone remembers how NZ got trashed in Australia, India and SA when they last toured those places.

Basically, touring has become a lot harder and most teams are hard to beat in their own backyard.
 
Test Cricket is at a pretty poor level these days compared to the 00s and early 10s. There are legitimately 4-5 teams who are decent at it and almost all are home bullies with an odd away series win/draw here or there against each other and rest of the time trashing the rest. Neither of the finalists of the WTC is the exception. There is no GOAT team out there
 
Nikhil_cric said:
The team has its flaws and the batting, in particular, has been poor for some time. Having said that, even a team like NZ has won away in only 2 places - England and UAE. They couldnt win in SL so I'm not sure why India's away series win in SL is being discounted. And I'm sure everyone remembers how NZ got trashed in Australia, India and SA when they last toured those places.

Basically, touring has become a lot harder and most teams are hard to beat in their own backyard.
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To get thrashed by such a week-ish team by getting bowled out for two sub 220 scores and allowing them to win with a huge margin of 8 wickets...that puts some perspective on the argument for 'Greatness' for this Indian team lol:virat1
 
Bewal Express said:
Some very salient points. Just to add,if Jameison( who is a very good bowler) can do this to a team what would the likes of Garner, Marshall and Holding have done? This Indian team is a good team and will beat a pretty poor England team, but under pressure they wilted against NZ.
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And that WI's team would win even on them doctored pitches of India because those bowlers took most pitches out of the equation with their fiery bowling!

India has to win a couple of series in England, NZ, and SA to lay any sort of claim of being on level or near the Aussie and WI all time GOAT teams
 
KingKhanWC said:
Pound for Pound one of the weakest nations in cricket.

A population of 1.3b. Millions spent on cricket, the only real sport the nation places but has never dominated cricket.

Imagine if Australia or NZ had these resources? Even if Pak had the money of the BCCI they would do much better than India.

Too mean physically weak players, too many bottom handed batsmen unable to play swing. Too many rockstars thinking they are on par with Le Bron or Ronaldo because they have earned money playing IPL.

On top of this they wont play Pakistan lol.

Deserve to lose the final to a better team.
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This post pretty much sums it up..

I respect the Indian fans for supporting their country but lose a lot of respect when I see them treat their millionaire players like hero's.
 
India has rank average players that wouldn't be good enough to tie the laces of any of the top five teams of the last 40 years including their own.

To the Indian fans, have some self respect
 
Weakest team or whatever
India has been in a lot of ICC finals and even if lost in the finals they still are one of the best teams. Not easy to achieve even these losses.
 
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