Is the Islamification of Europe inevitable?

[majiz]

Predictions based on current demographics/birth rates show some pretty staggering figures ... UK is set to have over 5 million Muslims by 2020, France to be 40% Muslim by 2040 etc

So...do you think there will be Islamic revolutions across major European countries one day? (you can't say Muslims don't tend to take their religion pretty seriously) Further, can you imagine these religious revolutions happening ever being a positive thing for Europe?

Even if there is no Islamic revolution as such, will tensions still seriously rise? Or will Europeans all live in relative peace with one another?

 

[R_K]

Are you the EDL or BNP in disguise?

 

[mithun_minhas]

There is a good chance that there will be more atheists in Europe by 2040 or 2050.

Most Muslims in Europe will be of subcontinent origin.

 

[coca-cola]

Hopefully not

 

[yasir]

There is a good chance that there will be more atheists in Europe by 2040 or 2050.

Most Muslims in Europe will be of subcontinent origin.

It is like Cricket in US, pretty much Desi's only... You are right Atheists are growing in number way more than any other religion after second world war...Infact the US motto "In God we Trust" was partly motivated by the popularity of non-religious forces...

BTW: Atheists are biggest minority in US (not black, latinos, Jews, muslims, Hindus, Chinese) and number is keep growing...

There are more Athiest even in Countries like Pakistan than you think, their is a reason PPP had a dedicated vote bank even with ups/down... Lot of people are in closet, because of lack of religious freedom, wait till Pakistan have true freedom of thoughts and expression

 

[archetype]

Growth in Islam is mostly driven by immigrants from Muslim countries and their children whose numbers are much more than converts to Islam. On the other hand, many people in the west are becoming non-religious at a fast rate, even Western Muslims. So I think non-religion will be dominant in a 100 years.

 

[eradicator]

So after turning the Muslim Countries into the most prosperous and peaceful ones ( As can be confirmed by having a look at current affairs of Islamic World ) , Islam will march ahead carrying the message of peace in new destinations. How exciting it will be.

 

[Invasion 550]

What is islamification of Europe? Why do we always have to point out islam when it comes to Muslims. Why dont we say the hundufication of india or christinifcation of europe? :/

 

[LongHorn]

Most Muslims in Europe will be of subcontinent origin.

How so? It is only in the UK that you have so many Desis. In Germany, France, Holland etc. North African Arabs and Turks outnumber Desis by a lot

 

[GenericBrand]

Eurabia theory has been debunked a couple of times.

 

[Robert]

The birth rates will slow down as the standard of living of the immigrants to Europe rise.

Western education will mean that Europe will become more atheist in time, not more Muslim.

 

[Varun]

What is islamification of Europe? Why do we always have to point out islam when it comes to Muslims. Why dont we say the hundufication of india or christinifcation of europe? :/

Because the levels of frictions in the latter two instances are far lesser.

 

[King Cobra]

Why isnt Hindu and Sikh population increasing at the same rate as that of Muslims if immigration is the only reason ?

 

[James]

Hopefully it will continue to become less religious instead.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes , It will be so.

I do not know by 2020 or 2025 , but it is evident that the changes are taking place. Muslims more aware of there religion than before.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Do Moroccoans, Malians, Algerians, Turks and Pakistanis get along well in Europe ? I dont think its possible to unite all Muslims from such diverse backgrounds under the flag of Islam.

 

[Indiafan]

Why isnt Hindu and Sikh population increasing at the same rate as that of Muslims if immigration is the only reason ?

Neither of the religions have an active will/duty/edict to convert more people into their religion. Even in India when foreigners convert to hinduism, its mostly because they get bored and find this interesting and different rather than being actively sought to convert by a priest. On the other hand, I believe its one of the basic tenents of Islam and Christanity to convert as many people as possible to the right path and there are people whose full time work is to do so

 

[akheR]

India has more chances to be majority Islamic than Europe, the fact that a large bulk of Indian Muslims are kept in poverty give them a beneficial fertility rate helping the growth of the 'ummah. And Zakir Naik's doing a good job in converting Hindus.
In Europe/Western world too many sociological factors go against that.

 

[King Cobra]

Neither of the religions have an active will/duty/edict to convert more people into their religion. Even in India when foreigners convert to hinduism, its mostly because they get bored and find this interesting and different rather than being actively sought to convert by a priest. On the other hand, I believe its one of the basic tenents of Islam and Christanity to convert as many people as possible to the right path and there are people whose full time work is to do so

How funny !!! Best way to colonize a Land and then demand for separation after forming a majority.

 

[Yossarian]

Hinduism and Sikhism, unlike Islam and Christianity, are primary based around a single ethnic group, ie peoples from the sub-continent. Sikhs (and Jews) have even managed to convince the various authorities in many countries that they are in fact separate races.

Christianity and Islam, unlike the other's mentioned, are not based around a single ethnicity and/or geographical region but comprise many different ethnic groups, cultures and regions. Followers of both religions have experienced internal conflicts throughout history even though religion has not always been the excuse used. European Christian countries have fought numerous wars against each other throughout history, just as the Muslims have done and are still doing.

These wars have always been for economic or political power and influence, although the leaders have often tried to use religion in order to unite their subjects and troops by claiming that they are fighting in the name of religion - even when fighting against enemies that follow the same religion.

So when comparing religions in terms of internal unity, internal conflict etc, comparing the likes of Christianity and Islam versus the likes of Hunduism, Sikhism, and Judaism is a false comparison.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Neither of the religions have an active will/duty/edict to convert more people into their religion. Even in India when foreigners convert to hinduism, its mostly because they get bored and find this interesting and different rather than being actively sought to convert by a priest. On the other hand, I believe its one of the basic tenents of Islam and Christanity to convert as many people as possible to the right path and there are people whose full time work is to do so

I can understand how some people might think the culture of Europe changing due to the immigration of muslims from Asia/Africa may be a bad thing but a culture change due to conversion to a new ideology seems quite natural and nothing to get worked up about.

 

[Yossarian]

Neither of the religions have an active will/duty/edict to convert more people into their religion. Even in India when foreigners convert to hinduism, its mostly because they get bored and find this interesting and different rather than being actively sought to convert by a priest. On the other hand, I believe its one of the basic tenents of Islam and Christanity to convert as many people as possible to the right path and there are people whose full time work is to do so

As I understand it, technically speaking, to be a Hindu or Jew, you have to be born a Hindu or Jew. Many jewish scholars even say that one can only be a Jew if one's mother was a jew.

So, as far as converting to Hinduism or Judaism, many scholars from both religions say that it simply is'nt possible to do so.

To be very straight and clear with my words, it is actually not possible to convert to Hinduism. There is no scripture that describes any procedure, method or ritual how you could convert. It is not like in other religions in which you have to get baptized or in which you have to proof that you know a certain part of the scriptures of that religion. There is simply no way to convert. Instead you can find verses that tell you that a Hindu is only a person who is born a Hindu.

http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/reli...regarding-a-basic-hindu-concept-5-jul-12.html

As far as Sikhism and Judaism is concerned, if they are races, as they both claim, then how can one become a Sikh or Jew since it is not possible to 'convert' to another race !!!

 

[Gabbar Singh]

In terms of those who 'practice' their religion - say by fasting during ramadan or lent (or abstinence on a particular day of the week); or attending a place of worship more than once a week Muslims probably already outnumber Xtians in the UK anyway so I'm sure the shift from Christianity to Islam will happen sooner or later.

And in my opinion this is neither a good thing or a bad thing - it's just a fact of life and people should live with it. Those who don't like it should emigrate or move to a remote part of the UK.

 

[pal]

As I understand it, technically speaking, to be a Hindu or Jew, you have to be born a Hindu or Jew. Many jewish scholars even say that one can only be a Jew if one's mother was a jew.

So, as far as converting to Hinduism or Judaism, many scholars from both religions say that it simply is'nt possible to do so.

There are some Hindus, mostly Brahmins I've found, who insist that conversion to Hinduism is not permitted. But, this is obviously not true and hasn't been true for most of Hinduism's history.

Hinduism was once the dominant religion in South-East Asia. There are still Hindu temples all across that region, from Laos to Indonesia. You had the Hindu Khmer empire to the north of the region and the Sri Vijaya empire to the south. The Khmer Empire built the Angkor Wat, which is dedicated to Lord Vishnu. Cambodia and Thailand are still fighting to this day over who should control the Preah Vihar temple dedicated to Lord Shiva. Indonesia had amazing indigenous Hindu empires, like the Majapahit. There have been Hindus in Indonesia for close to two millennia. The island of Bali is still overwhelmingly Hindu. How did they become Hindus if not through conversion?

 

[FusedBulb]

Predictions based on current demographics/birth rates show some pretty staggering figures ... UK is set to have over 5 million Muslims by 2020, France to be 40% Muslim by 2040 etc

So...do you think there will be Islamic revolutions across major European countries one day? (you can't say Muslims don't tend to take their religion pretty seriously) Further, can you imagine these religious revolutions happening ever being a positive thing for Europe?

Even if there is no Islamic revolution as such, will tensions still seriously rise? Or will Europeans all live in relative peace with one another?

Would be nice if Muslims in the Islamic countries get their own act together before "Islamifying" anyone else. Generally in the Muslim countries you have the most corrupt leaders rule the most sentimental people with low literacy and high birth rates, non-existent security, bias or no law, rampant corruption, sky rocketed inflation, low job rates, dying healthcare, severe shortage of electricity, no clean drinking water, garbage piles in the middle of cities, child labor, hardly any justice and what not. Hopefully that won't happen to Europe.

 

[Yossarian]

Would be nice if Muslims in the Islamic countries get their own act together before "Islamifying" anyone else. Generally in the Muslim countries you have the most corrupt leaders rule the most sentimental people with low literacy and high birth rates, non-existent security, bias or no law, rampant corruption, sky rocketed inflation, low job rates, dying healthcare, severe shortage of electricity, no clean drinking water, garbage piles in the middle of cities, child labor, hardly any justice and what not. Hopefully that won't happen to Europe.

Politicians and leaders are reflections of the society that they rule.

Whilst I agree with most of what you have written above, one must ask as to how, in comparison to the musim countries, did the European countries and their leaders become less corrupt?

The answer lies in the fact the PEOPLE refused to accept corrupt leaders, refused to accept monarchies with absolute control of power and running of their countries (even though monarchies still exist, but not with the same absolute control as those in the muslim countries). But most of all, it was the PEOPLE who decided to be less corrupt and less dishonest by realising that real and lasting changes to society can only come from the grassroots up and not from top down.

Pakistani's are constantly moaning about their politicians and leaders, moaning about the rampant corruption in their country whilst ignoring the fact it is they, and their families and friends, who are part and parcel of that corruption, and it is they, their families, friends and everyone else's families and friends who are the givers and receivers of bribes and corrupt practices.

Whether it's a 'minor' corruption such as giving a policeman a few rupees to look the way after committing a traffic violation, receiving/giving a small 'gift' from/to a parent/teacher for giving a child good grades or whether it's major that involves tens of millions of rupees in bribes for judges and politicians, a bribe is a bribe and therefore corruption.

You may call me whatever names you like, but deep down you know it's true.

 

[coca-cola]

I can understand how some people might think the culture of Europe changing due to the immigration of muslims from Asia/Africa may be a bad thing but a culture change due to conversion to a new ideology seems quite natural and nothing to get worked up about.

Culture change in general right now is headed towards a more globalized and homogenous perspective. I think the conservative mindset of many muslims might impede that.

 

[Pakz]

Politicians and leaders are reflections of the society that they rule.


The answer lies in the fact the PEOPLE refused to accept corrupt leaders, refused to accept monarchies with absolute control of power and running of their countries (even though monarchies still exist, but not with the same absolute control as those in the muslim countries). But most of all, it was the PEOPLE who decided to be less corrupt and less dishonest by realising that real and lasting changes to society can only come from the grassroots up and not from top down.

Pakistani's are constantly moaning about their politicians and leaders, moaning about the rampant corruption in their country whilst ignoring the fact it is they, and their families and friends, who are part and parcel of that corruption, and it is they, their families, friends and everyone else's families and friends who are the givers and receivers of bribes and corrupt practices.

Whether it's a 'minor' corruption such as giving a policeman a few rupees to look the way after committing a traffic violation, receiving/giving a small 'gift' from/to a parent/teacher for giving a child good grades or whether it's major that involves tens of millions of rupees in bribes for judges and politicians, a bribe is a bribe and therefore corruption.

What do you think is the cause for the people of these different platforms having different actions, in other words why do you think the people of the Muslim world are less active in talking action? Corruption exist nearly every be it back door etc. However was there some sort of historical change or just general?

Some would say it's due to the level of using there so called 'intellect' which has caused all these problems for the Muslim world. Other would say it's a part of misinterpretation of beliefs and some would even say it's a part of the way Islam operates and give claims about reasons why one islamic country is corrupt (as it has significance to the tradition islamic belief). Etc.

All these and no real discussion has caused divisions among the people in the Muslim countries, don't you think? However do places in Europe follow religion strictly ? For how would you define the UK in correlation to how seriously religion is taken?

 

[Yossarian]

What do you think is the cause for the people of these different platforms having different actions, in other words why do you think the people of the Muslim world are less active in talking action? Corruption exist nearly every be it back door etc. However was there some sort of historical change or just general?

Some would say it's due to the level of using there so called 'intellect' which has caused all these problems for the Muslim world. Other would say it's a part of misinterpretation of beliefs and some would even say it's a part of the way Islam operates and give claims about reasons why one islamic country is corrupt (as it has significance to the tradition islamic belief). Etc.

All these and no real discussion has caused divisions among the people in the Muslim countries, don't you think? However do places in Europe follow religion sticky? For how would you define the UK in correlation to how seriously religion is taken?

Religion is and is'nt to blame.

On the one hand, religion absolutely forbids such practices and demands (not requests) honestry from its followers. And on that basis, religion cannot be blamed for corruption and other illegal practices amonst its followers.

However, when the religious leaders ignore, and stop conveying to the masses. the real purpose of the religion (and I've expressed my views on this numerous times on other threads), and instead start focussing on those aspects of the religion where the populace find it difficult seeing how it improves their day-to-day lives, then people start paying lipservice to the rules and edicts off the religion, or even, deep down, start thinking that it does'nt apply to them, and that includes honest dealings in their everyday lives. Call it a form of sub-concious rebellion against the religous edicts. On that basis, religion, or rather religious leaders, must share much of the blame.

 

[majiz]

There is a good chance that there will be more atheists in Europe by 2040 or 2050.

Most Muslims in Europe will be of subcontinent origin.

The birth rates will slow down as the standard of living of the immigrants to Europe rise.

Western education will mean that Europe will become more atheist in time, not more Muslim.

Hopefully it will continue to become less religious instead.

Islam has a sense of draw to young people due to it's international identity and rigid laws. Certainly more non-muslims in Europe at the moment are 'converting' from atheism and Christianity (although most Christians are so half-hearted about their religion they're basically atheists anyway, lol) to Islam than Muslims are to atheism. Why, when so many non-Muslims are drawn to it, would Muslims tend to give up their religion once it has been taught into them from a young age? They won't. You have very high hopes for Western education if you think that's what is going to magically make all the difference.

Robert you mention the standard of living increasing for immigrants in the future, why on Earth would that happen? Why will the standard of living increase for anyone? The young people at the moment are a generation of slackers. Europe is gonna fall dude, and mass-immigration will be just one of many causes.

 

[FusedBulb]

..... Europe is gonna fall dude....

And how European Muslims can help NOT to let this happen? How can European Muslims play a positive role by contributing to European social setup and strengthen the economy? Right now Europe provides asylum - education - welfare - homes and pathway to citizenship to refugees from warn torn Muslim countries, if Europe falls, where would these Muslim refugees go? Saudi Arabia?

 

[Saeed]

Depends if the local population accept it then yes if not then no.

 

[majiz]

Are you the EDL or BNP in disguise?

Not at all. BNP are racist, and EDL are one-policy thickos, and even that policy doesn't make any sense or is thought out.

 

[majiz]

And how European Muslims can help NOT to let this happen?

By being half-hearted, on the fence wussies and not caring too much about the religion they claim to believe in like Christians in Europe at the moment Look around the world, the best countries to live in don't tend to care too much for religion.

Trouble is Muslims show no sign of becoming like this in the near future, and I wouldn't say they are due to do so for about another few hundred years.

 

[James]

Percentage-wise the amount of European Muslim converts within populations is still very small. There's been increased interest, but nothing astronomical. Rates of people losing interest in religion altogether are probably much greater. The vast majority of people in Britain for example have little to no time for organised religion. I went to a church service recently as a matter of curiosity, and found it a very uncomfortable experience I'm afraid to say.

 

[majiz]

Percentage-wise the amount of European Muslim converts within populations is still very small. There's been increased interest, but nothing astronomical. Rates of people losing interest in religion altogether are probably much greater. The vast majority of people in Britain for example have little to no time for organised religion. I went to a church service recently as a matter of curiosity, and found it a very uncomfortable experience I'm afraid to say.

And the number of Muslims leaving their religion is still very small. Perhaps even smaller I reckon, or at least it will be it will be once increased numbers of Muslims results in increased exposure and influence on the non-Muslims.

None of this matters when the birth rates of Muslims is just so much higher. Sheer numbers, that's the bottom line, and the fact is the vast majority of Muslims show no sign of leaving their religion behind en masse, or anything like that. If the prediction that France will be 40% Muslim by 2040 hasn't properly taken into account the number of deserters there may well be, then it will just 30% Muslim instead or something. IMO.

 

[James]

You've got to give it to whoever came up with the apostasy taboo. That is a serious double-bind.

 

[majiz]

You've got to give it to whoever came up with the apostasy taboo. That is a serious double-bind.

i ponder in my head sometimes how much of a problem the massive taboo on contraception in Islam is, but it gets sexual and tmi far too quickly...

''i mean, maybe the lack of contraception is not partly to blame for having so many babies and it's just a cultural thing, i mean, there are many ways to avoid it anyway, pretty much anyway..''

''but then, guys like doing that dont they....''

yeah i'll stop now. i don't think it's something i'd feel comfortable discussing with many people. lol.

but god, what if europe did fall and it would just be because blokes just loved doing that thing so much? and over population is a massive problem in itself anyway.

edit: are 'natural' forms of contraception allowed in Islam? and how natural are we talking? lol. anyone know?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Question to the OP:

Do you actually live in Europe? My guess would be no. Either that or you don't actually interact much the many different people who make up the population here.

 

[Robert]

Islam has a sense of draw to young people due to it's international identity and rigid laws. Certainly more non-muslims in Europe at the moment are 'converting' from atheism and Christianity (although most Christians are so half-hearted about their religion they're basically atheists anyway, lol) to Islam than Muslims are to atheism. Why, when so many non-Muslims are drawn to it, would Muslims tend to give up their religion once it has been taught into them from a young age?

I think you are describing a phenomenon of second-generation Muslim immigrants, who feel dislocated from European society and culture, and so turn to a rigid form of Islam in able to feel some sort of collective identity. That will pass in time.

There are a few UK reverts to Islam - this happens quite a lot in jails, for example. I suppose some UK girls convert to Islam because they love a Muslim man. There was an interesting programme on about two young white male reverts who became quite hardcore (one of them is in HMP Belmarsh now on terror charges). In both cases they lacked a father figure, and kids need structure.

Robert you mention the standard of living increasing for immigrants in the future, why on Earth would that happen? Why will the standard of living increase for anyone?

Well.... if you come from Bangladesh or an African state to Europe, then you will automatically get access to a higher standard of living.

And yes, the standard of living in the UK has increased in the last 30 years alone.

The young people at the moment are a generation of slackers. Europe is gonna fall dude, and mass-immigration will be just one of many causes.

Fall where?

 

[Slog]

Interesting thread.

And this was before the migrant crisis.

Its really been sad to see the beginning of the end of modern Europe in recent years

The idea of the 'United States of Europe' ended with the Brexit

 

[TSA321]

http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2090-2099.htm#religion

2090

In some European nations, the number of people considering themselves to be non-religious has increased from around 30% in 1980, to over 90% now.* Although large numbers of Muslims populate the continent, a substantial portion are now only "culturally" Muslim, rather than having a literal interpretation of the Koran. Mainstream Islam has begun a reformation and modernisation in recent years – aided by vast improvements in education, combined with the broad homogenisation of culture resulting from globalisation, the Internet, various international agreements and other factors.

Medical advances are undermining religion as a whole, by greatly diminishing the fear of death, while developments in AI, robotics and biotechnology are beginning to trivialise the miracles on which many ancient religions are based. The increasing presence of androids in society – along with other forms of sentience – is adding a whole new dimension to the way humans view themselves and their place in the Universe. The ability to communicate with certain artifically enhanced animals (such as dolphins, monkeys and domestic pets) is also contributing to this trend.

Spirituality continues to play a role in European cultures – but is now based more on nature and physical reality, rather than myths, dogma or supernatural forces.

The USA still lags far behind Europe in terms of atheistic belief, however. It will be another century before America reaches the same level; even longer for certain parts of Asia. Even then, a small percentage of citizens will continue to worship a God (or Gods), well into the next millenium. These people will tend to be those who reject science and technology, or have purposefully chosen to isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Europe is generally going to become a Land of the Asians. People from China, the Sub Continent and the Arab world will be in the majority while the white Europeans will be forced into minority. Hindus very easily integrate into any society they live in, be it an orthodox Muslim/Christian society or a liberal society of atheists. Therefore, Islam will predominantly be the largest religion and Muslims will most probably take over and with radical Islam and Wahabbism on the rise, I don't really think it'll be the best thing to happen.

It will start off with England. Places like Luton, London are already white minorities and Birmingham is going to become a Muslim majority city soon, according to statistics. The Islamification of Europe is on the rise and it is rampant.

 

[James]

Nietzsche was partially correct about the death of Christianity in Europe. It has happened - but it is not being replaced by Nihilism. Instead it is Islam that is not far from becoming the most practiced faith in the United Kingdom, particularly England.

Emphasis on practicing. Yes percentage-wise the total spread of English Muslims is probably still quite small, but most/all of them seem to practice Islam to some degree, whereas there are not many active Christians outside of the 70+ generation.

 

[Slog]

Nietzsche was partially correct about the death of Christianity in Europe. It has happened - but it is not being replaced by Nihilism. Instead it is Islam that is not far from becoming the most practiced faith in the United Kingdom, particularly England.

Emphasis on practicing. Yes percentage-wise the total spread of English Muslims is probably still quite small, but most/all of them seem to practice Islam to some degree, whereas there are not many active Christians outside of the 70+ generation.

It depends on what is deemed as practising

For many non-practising Christians you talk about, if a guy goes to the place of worship (Church in this case) even 4 times a year, they will deem him as practising whereas for Muslims such a person will be deemed as non-practising.

Muslims, due to the culture and way of upbringing, are for the most part almost always likely to keep a link to Islamic practises and followings due to pressure from family and society.

For eg the most well-known athiest here says that in Pakistan he goes for the big prayers, and for a European that maybe a practising Muslim

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Those who identify as having no religion now outnumber Christians in England and Wales and moreover half of all Christians in England and Wales are over the age of 55. The decline for Christianity in the UK is terminal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-religion-outnumber-christians-england-wales-study

 

[PakLFC]

The vast majority of Christians are non practising. There faith starts and finishes on the belief that "Christ died on the cross for their sins" without having much knowledge of the scripture. Only the old people who are bored or lonely bother going to Church. Islam is probably practised more then any other faith, by bombing Muslim lands in to oblivion the west only has itself to blame for the Islamification of Europe.

 

[Adil_94]

will europe be islamised i dont think so. Simply having more Muslims doesnt mean a country is being Islamised as Islamisation requires having influence and power in the media in politics in all the key institutions. Muslims in Europe dont have that.

However i feel like that the more Muslim populations rise and visible Muslimness is seen on the streets of Europe so will polarisation and the rise of the far right will continue.

I fear that a Balkans style situation could happen once the Muslim population hits 20% esp in France or U.K. I dont think genocide will happen but deportations could happen definitely.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

The question is not of islamisation .... that will never happen but the de-religionisation will gather pace even more.

 

[Musakhel]

will europe be islamised i dont think so. Simply having more Muslims doesnt mean a country is being Islamised as Islamisation requires having influence and power in the media in politics in all the key institutions. Muslims in Europe dont have that.

However i feel like that the more Muslim populations rise and visible Muslimness is seen on the streets of Europe so will polarisation and the rise of the far right will continue.

I fear that a Balkans style situation could happen once the Muslim population hits 20% esp in France or U.K. I dont think genocide will happen but deportations could happen definitely.

It will never hit 20%.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=142623]Musakhel[/MENTION] in France n U.K it will by the end of the century if current birth rate and immigration patterns continue.

 

[Musakhel]

[MENTION=142623]Musakhel[/MENTION] in France n U.K it will by the end of the century if current birth rate and immigration patterns continue.

There is nothing in the hadith that mentions that islam will takeover europe, rather it mentions that europeans will gather to attack the muslims in istanbul or syria not quite sure which one, based on this my guess is that mass deportations and civil war is much more likely.

 

[Black Zero]

It is like Cricket in US, pretty much Desi's only... You are right Atheists are growing in number way more than any other religion after second world war...Infact the US motto "In God we Trust" was partly motivated by the popularity of non-religious forces...

BTW: Atheists are biggest minority in US (not black, latinos, Jews, muslims, Hindus, Chinese) and number is keep growing...

There are more Athiest even in Countries like Pakistan than you think, their is a reason PPP had a dedicated vote bank even with ups/down... Lot of people are in closet, because of lack of religious freedom, wait till Pakistan have true freedom of thoughts and expression

It is said that population of athiests decreased by a 1% in 2016 to now 11% in first world.

 

[yasir]

It is said that population of athiests decreased by a 1% in 2016 to now 11% in first world.

In the long run there is no superstitious ideology(religion, race, patriotism and what not) that can defeat Science and Reason. Main reason is superstitions does not solve any real problems, Hakeems cannot take over doctors, clergymen cannot fix jobs, economic growth, health care and other problems, no matter how many times they memorize holly text. People will be wary of Science too, loss of jobs to automation in next few decades will resent people and we will have wars. But there is no turning back. We never went back from Agriculture to caves, same is true now, there are challenges with every thing we do. Scale of population we have cannot be feed by old school agriculture. Same problem we had from moving from Agriculture to caves, in caves we were starving, struggling to get a meal a day for a very small fraction of population.

 

[PakLFC]

There is nothing in the hadith that mentions that islam will takeover europe, rather it mentions that europeans will gather to attack the muslims in istanbul or syria not quite sure which one, based on this my guess is that mass deportations and civil war is much more likely.

There is also a hadith that says Muslim's will conquer Rome and "Islam will rise from the west". I think the one you are referring to is nearer the end of times prior to which Muslim's will cease to exist. In other words no heart that believes in the kalima will be made to witness the last few days of life, destruction and death earth. Allah will spare the believers from this torment.

 

[czar]

There is also a hadith that says Muslim's will conquer Rome and "Islam will rise from the west". I think the one you are referring to is nearer the end of times prior to which [M] Muslim's will cease to exist[/B]. In other words no heart that believes in the kalima will be made to witness the last few days of life, destruction and death earth. Allah will spare the believers from this torment.

Do you mean Islam will be no more on earth in the future? To where and how will Muslims disappear ?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=142623]Musakhel[/MENTION] im not talking about what ancient books say but the real demographic situation is. using these books for modern day predictions is of little use. Muslim birth rates are a lot higher than whites in France n U.K coupled with immigration. Muslim population is France is already nearly 10% and about 5-6% in U.K by end of the century IF current trends continue Muslim populations in these countries will reach at least 20%. Whether that means the country will be Islamised thats a different situation altogether.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] people have interpreted that to mean the Ottomans conquest of Constaninople and destruction of the Byzantine Empire also known as the Eastern Roman Empire which was called Rome at the time of the Prophet. When Quran talks about the Romans it is referring to the Byzantines who controlled the areas west of Arabia like modern day Jordan Palestine Syria Turkey. Which all eventually came under Muslim control. Rome as in the Italian capital was a city overran by Barbarians at the time and had lost its place as the centre of Roman civilisation after the European Roman Empire collapsed in 476 AD n Europe went through 1000 years of the Dark Ages.

one of the ottoman sultans titles after the conquest of constantinople was Qaysar i Rum or caesar of rome to signify themselves as the inheritors of the Roman empire.

 

[troodon]

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] well Christianity was briefly replaced with the nihilistic ideologies of Fascism Nazism and Communism across Europe during the Interwar period as the post WWI new societal order and breakup of century long Empires on the continent created a deep identity crisis and sense of dislocation that these new modernist ideologies claimed to be able to resolve that in a way that the perceived to be weak and feeble liberal democractic model couldnt especially at times of economic crisis like the Depression.

Soviet Communism after Stalins murderous reign and killing of tens of millions of his own people to build Homo Soveticus tempered itself after his death and became more of a benign autocratic ideology esp after realising that mass murder of people wasnt the answer and it crumbled and gave away to democracy and capitalism eventually.

Nazism was only defeated by total war and a period of killing unseen in human history same with the various fascist regimes across Europe.

After Europe exhausted itself through bloodshed and war countries either fell into the liberal democratic consenus or the communist one. post the ussr its been a democratic consensus in most of Europe. And Christianity has been replaced more by secularism and liberalism but i feel that there is an identity crisis within Europe about national identity liberalism immigration integration about what it means to be a Frenchman or a Brit and this why we are seeing the rise of right wing populism again just as in the interwar period although none are as extreme or as popular as some of those movements were.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] if that does happen Europeans wont agree to a partition like Congress did. It will be war and most likely genocide. I think the issue is people still being fundamentalist views that are incompatible with the values of mainstream society. When most of the society is moving towards secularism irreligion liberalism and u have a growing minority that still is quite fundamentalist and hold views so different to the mainstream. Naturally there will be tensions and fears that the years of toil to reach a certain progress will be rolled back.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

A load of fanciful nonsense in that post, but no surprise from someone who criticises multiculturalism but fails to provide a successful alternative which he has personal experience of.

 

[sshakir411]

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

I don't get this statement...so does Christianity and Judaism believe their God isn't the real God and their religion is not true? Do Hindus also believe their God isn't the real God yet choose to believe in that God? Elaborate.

 

[James]

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

Reading between the lines of your post - am not sure what you really "hope" for to be honest!

 

[czar]

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

Pretty much the common view among the people in the West today who are suspicious about the growing Muslim numbers and rising extremism.

That's is why we have reports over Muslim Population reaching a particular percentage over a period of time and fears associated with it.

 

[enkidu_]

I don't think Europe will be Islamified. It will die off a natural death as all civilizations (loose morality, no fertility rate, etc) and the European capitals will look like Rome did for roughly 1500 years : a near-village. With the economic dynamics slowly going back to Asia the major cities will again be on the old Silk road. It will be a slow process taking some 200 years but I see Europe more jumping off the cliff (right now it's too busy contemplating its own spiritual void) than taking the shahada - there's something in European anthropology which goes against tawhid/monism.

I hope Muslim population does not ever cross more than 20% in Europe.

IMO, Any non-native culture or religion or race should ever cross 20% in any country. Once the natives start seeing large numbers of non-native people in their lands, first they will move away from those areas and then later, they will start abusing and at worse there will be riots.

If Muslims starts becoming majority in some European countries, they will demand a separate country and it will not be pretty. Its a fact. Islam simply cannot co-exist with other ideologies when it believes it is the only true religion and Allah is the only true God.

It's Europeans who can't co exist with others. Arabs have tolerated their religious minorities (mainly Jews and Christians), and Turks theirs (genocide of Armenians and Assyrians, as well as expulsion of Greeks, happened centuries after all these groups were the élite of the Ottoman Empire, and more for nationalistic than theological reasons), what happened with the pagans of Europe ? Exterminated. What did the Europeans do with populations in the Americas/Oceania ? Partial or total annihilation.

Also you're not so subtle hint at Partition is typical Indian, forgetting the fact that the very first to talk of "Partition" were major Hindu leaders (Lala Lajpat Rai who literally called one, Savarkar who said there are two nations of Hindus and Muslims and so on.)

By the way it's interesting that you bring the 20%, because there are more than 20% Russians in the Islamic majority nation of Kazakhstan. Have you seen them hunt Russians like they do with their Central Asian migrants (some 1-2% at best) ? Have you ever seen Arabs of the Gulf, who are literally overrun by all kind of strangers (incl. Indian Hindus), do something comparable to "Pak* bashing" like the Brits did for decades ? Lebanon has now one third of its country filled with Syrians, and when you know the relations between them (as worse as Pak-India), I have still to see Lebanese gangs targeting Syrian refugees like in Poland (incidentally +100 000 Polish refugees stayed in Muslim countries due to WWII, looks like it's all forgotten now.)

 

[PakLFC]

Do you mean Islam will be no more on earth in the future? To where and how will Muslims disappear ?

I mean Muslim's will not witness the destruction of planet earth called "Qayamat". Allah will spare the believers this terrible event. Islam will be here until the end of time.

 

[srh]

Do you mean Islam will be no more on earth in the future? To where and how will Muslims disappear ?

yep. One day there will be no muslim in this world. And thats the day the world will finish.