Australian anti-Islamic activist Shermon becomes the latest far-right figure to convert to Islam

[Champ_Pal]

Slavery has nothing to do with racism, it was common in medieval times.

Slavery was part of Medieval times and I agree with you. But the worth of Arab slave is twice that of black slave. That is where the problem of racism comes.

 

[SalimBhai]

They are given respect for their own beliefs if they actually stand for them. What do you stand for?

Are you saying non Muslims don’t stand for anything and Muslims have some moral high ground ?

 

[SalimBhai]

I think you are not being honest .the way you state it , it’s like Islam is the most fair thing . Reality is Muslims and non Muslims are not equal in Islam. . Yes if they convert they are equal in the eyes of the Islamic law . In theory that is also not true. Example. If a local ( gulf Arab) dies in a crash his amount for blood money is more than a Muslim Pakistani in the same situation. I am talking about men here. Women is a whole different story.

It’s hilarious how they bypass everything and keep repeating the same garbage they have been taught to believe as a child

 

[szrana007]

Slavery was part of Medieval times and I agree with you. But the worth of Arab slave is twice that of black slave. That is where the problem of racism comes.

There is no discrimination aginst blacks in Islam. An Arab has no superiority over a black and vice versa. Show me a proof from the Islamic sources which say that Arabs and blacks are not equal.

Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali are famous examples of black people who became Muslims because they saw how Islam eliminated racism against the black people..

As far as slavery goes, slavery in Islam was not like the Serfdom that existed in Europe or the slavery of Blacks in USA. It was a slavery in which slaves could become kings in just one lifetime. Under Islam, Turkic slaves became rulers (Mamluks) and African slaves became kings (Malik Anbar) and Jannisarys who became the ruling elite in the Ottoman empire.

 

[Stewie]

Slavery was part of Medieval times and I agree with you. But the worth of Arab slave is twice that of black slave. That is where the problem of racism comes.

You are confusing cultural/societal patterns with religious law. It’s comparing apples and oranges. It’s like saying the Protestant movement is responsible for the slavery in America. Two totally different phenomena.

 

[Robert]

There is no discrimination aginst blacks in Islam. An Arab has no superiority over a black and vice versa. Show me a proof from the Islamic sources which say that Arabs and blacks are not equal.

Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali are famous examples of black people who became Muslims because they saw how Islam eliminated racism against the black people..

As far as slavery goes, slavery in Islam was not like the Serfdom that existed in Europe or the slavery of Blacks in USA. It was a slavery in which slaves could become kings in just one lifetime. Under Islam, Turkic slaves became rulers (Mamluks) and African slaves became kings (Malik Anbar) and Jannisarys who became the ruling elite in the Ottoman empire.

Fair points - though ripping millions of families apart over a thousand years was still the wrong thing to do.

 

[Champ_Pal]

There is no discrimination aginst blacks in Islam. An Arab has no superiority over a black and vice versa. Show me a proof from the Islamic sources which say that Arabs and blacks are not equal.

Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali are famous examples of black people who became Muslims because they saw how Islam eliminated racism against the black people..

As far as slavery goes, slavery in Islam was not like the Serfdom that existed in Europe or the slavery of Blacks in USA. It was a slavery in which slaves could become kings in just one lifetime. Under Islam, Turkic slaves became rulers (Mamluks) and African slaves became kings (Malik Anbar) and Jannisarys who became the ruling elite in the Ottoman empire.

I can refute everything you posted, but it will take the discussion to a new tangent.

 

[sweep_shot]

I can refute everything you posted, but it will take the discussion to a new tangent.

Are you saying there is discrimination against blacks in Islam?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Are you saying there is discrimination against blacks in Islam?

Yes. I am sorry that you did not know that.

 

[SalimBhai]

Are you saying there is discrimination against blacks in Islam?

You do acknowledge there is discrimination between muslims ands non muslims in islam? Right?

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes. I am sorry that you did not know that.

No. There is no discrimination against blacks in religion of Islam. Racism is not a thing in Islam.

For the record, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said this, "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

 

[Technics 1210]

I can refute everything you posted, but it will take the discussion to a new tangent.

No you cannot refute. If you could you'd post a verse from the Qur'an by now.

Don't confuse culture with religion.

Be sure to look up the first person who gave the Azaan, in the presence of Mohammed [PBUH], he was black, and his name was, Bilal ibn Rabah.

 

[Champ_Pal]

No. There is no discrimination against blacks in religion of Islam. Racism is not a thing in Islam.

For the record, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said this, "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7142
https://sunnah.com/muslim:1602

Refer to above. Both are sahi Hadees.

 

[Technics 1210]

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7142
https://sunnah.com/muslim:1602

Refer to above. Both are sahi Hadees.

Did you even read the text you cited?

It says obey your ruler even if he is black.

And what has the permissibility of selling animals for animals got to do with racism in Islam?

You do realise slavery existed before Islam?

Move along troll, and learn how to use Google.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Did you even read the text you cited?

It says obey your ruler even if he is black.

And what has the permissibility of selling animals for animals got to do with racism in Islam?

You do realise slavery existed before Islam?

Move along troll, and learn how to use Google.

Calling someone raisin head is not racist?

Selling animals? Are you ok? It was about a transaction between Arab slave for 2 black slaves.

Don’t get mad at me. It is history.

 

[Champ_Pal]

These topics are sensitive and I will not post further in this.

 

[Technics 1210]

Calling someone raisin head is not racist?

Selling animals? Are you ok? It was about a transaction between Arab slave for 2 black slaves.

Don’t get mad at me. It is history.

You claimed Islam is racist, you searched Google, linked the first result, and the rest is history.

Are you ok? Where are the Qur'anic verses promoting and endorsing racism? Can't find them?

As for calling someone a raisin, matter of interpretation of ancient text. Also 1 Arab slave for 2 black slaves proves that slavery was not just confined to blacks.

Go back to bed.

 

[Technics 1210]

These topics are sensitive and I will not post further in this.

No, again don't try and wriggle out of this one.

You made a claim Islam is racist, thus far you have only cited a verse from the Hadith that at best suggest ONE person is racist, not the religion itself.

Cite the Qur'anic verses, as the Qur'an is the cornerstone and bedrock of Islam.

So much for the garbage "easy to refute".

 

[Champ_Pal]

No, again don't try and wriggle out of this one.

You made a claim Islam is racist, thus far you have only cited a verse from the Hadith that at best suggest ONE person is racist, not the religion itself.

So much for the garbage "easy to refute".

It was Prophet PBUh that was nvolved in the transaction. Did you bother to even read it? It looks like you are feeling very uncomfortable.

Anyway, I will cut this discussion here. If Mods can delete these posts, it would be better as it is taking the discussion in a tangent.

 

[Technics 1210]

It was Prophet PBUh that was nvolved in the transaction. Did you bother to even read it? It looks like you are feeling very uncomfortable.

Anyway, I will cut this discussion here. If Mods can delete these posts, it would be better as it is taking the discussion in a tangent.

Why are you running away?

Nope, your kind a dime a dozen, straight out of the Islamophobic school of Google.

Cut the discussion all you want, you are running away and making up stuff now, yes I read your poor attempt.

Please go back to defending the claim the caste system is not racist, when it clearly is, and endorsed in Hindu texts along with mysoginstic practices such as Sati.

And stop this nonsense about caste members cannot be victims of racisim being the same colour as other castes, when Jews are the same colour of Arabs and also considered a race.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Why are you running away?

Nope, your kind a dime a dozen, straight out of the Islamophobic school of Google.

Cut the discussion all you want, you are running away and making up stuff now, yes I read your poor attempt.

Please go back to defending the claim the caste system is not racist, when it clearly is, and endorsed in Hindu texts along with mysoginstic practices such as Sati.

And stop this nonsense about caste members cannot be victims of racisim being the same colour as other castes, when Jews are the same colour of Arabs and also considered a race.

Why are you bringing Hinduism in this?

Caste system and Sati are a black mark on Hinduism. I don’t deny that. I am glad that Sati is abolished more than a century ago and Caste system is slowly getting booted out with so many inter caste marriages.

But it is not based on skin color. It is based on one’s occupation. I have explained this in my post before. Google what Varnashrama Dharma means. It is not difficult to understand.

 

[sweep_shot]

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7142
https://sunnah.com/muslim:1602

Refer to above. Both are sahi Hadees.

Did you even read those?

One is talking about being obedient to ruler. Nothing to do with black race.

Another is talking about something else. Nothing to do with race.

You took both hadiths out of context. Probably deliberately.

In Islam, all races are equal.

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

 

[Champ_Pal]

Did you even read those?

One is talking about being obedient to ruler. Nothing to do with black race.

Another is talking about something else. Nothing to do with race.

You took both hadiths out of context. Probably deliberately.

In Islam, all races are equal.

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

You are in denial.
Have a good day.

 

[Technics 1210]

Why are you bringing Hinduism in this?

Caste system and Sati are a black mark on Hinduism. I don’t deny that. I am glad that Sati is abolished more than a century ago and Caste system is slowly getting booted out with so many inter caste marriages.

But it is not based on skin color. It is based on one’s occupation. I have explained this in my post before. Google what Varnashrama Dharma means. It is not difficult to understand.

Hinduism was discussed in this thread, yes? So why shouldn't I mention it?

Skin colour is irrelevant in the case of caste system, as I said, Jews and Arabs have the same colour skim yet are considered 2 different races.

You claim Mohammed (PBUH) is mentioned in 'racist' verses from the Hadith yet fail to acknowledge who the first person to call the Azaan was, a black individual.

You say occupation determines the racist caste system, but fail to realise the caste system is the result of a cultural overspill, rather than a religious one, which is exactly the case with your pseudo poor attempts at proving Islam is racist when you do not realise slavery and racisim existed well before Islam.

As for Googling, problem is, there is no single source of Hinduism, unlike the Torah, Bible, and the Qur'an.

The truth is you felt the need to attack another religion because you couldn't defend yours.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Hinduism was discussed in this thread, yes? So why shouldn't I mention it?

Skin colour is irrelevant in the case of caste system, as I said, Jews and Arabs have the same colour skim yet are considered 2 different races.

You claim Mohammed (PBUH) is mentioned in 'racist' verses from the Hadith yet fail to acknowledge who the first person to call the Azaan was, a black individual.

You say occupation determines the racist caste system, but fail to realise the caste system is the result of a cultural overspill, rather than a religious one, which is exactly the case with your pseudo poor attempts at proving Islam is racist when you do not realise slavery and racisim existed well before Islam.

As for Googling, problem is, there is no single source of Hinduism, unlike the Torah, Bible, and the Qur'an.

The truth is you felt the need to attack another religion because you couldn't defend yours.

If Jews are Sons of Isaac and Arabs are Sons of Ishmael, then they are the same race.

Slavery and racism existed well before Islam. I never said they did not. If Islam allowed it and followed it, then they are part of the crime too.

Lord Ram ate food from a tribal woman. He took shelter in a fisherman's home and hugged him and treated him with respect. That does not mean caste system does not exist in Hinduism. It is a brutal one and rightfully made illegal to discriminate based on it.

I am not defending Hinduism. I have said it, it has a lot of faults like all religions which survived for hundreds and thousands of years. No one is perfect. But when claiming someone or something is perfect, it attracts a lot of scrutiny.

 

[Technics 1210]

If Jews are Sons of Isaac and Arabs are Sons of Ishmael, then they are the same race.

Slavery and racism existed well before Islam. I never said they did not. If Islam allowed it and followed it, then they are part of the crime too.

Lord Ram ate food from a tribal woman. He took shelter in a fisherman's home and hugged him and treated him with respect. That does not mean caste system does not exist in Hinduism. It is a brutal one and rightfully made illegal to discriminate based on it.

I am not defending Hinduism. I have said it, it has a lot of faults like all religions which survived for hundreds and thousands of years. No one is perfect. But when claiming someone or something is perfect, it attracts a lot of scrutiny.

Who claimed anyone is perfect? I am pulling you up on your claims.

What attracts scrutiny are poor attempts at substantiating claims. You made the claim Islam is a racist religion, now back it up. 2 Googled verses from the Hadith, out of context, are not an 'easy refutation' of claim nor proof of claims, verses from the Qur'an are.

 

[SalimBhai]

One person is claiming his religion has plenty of baggage and has done plenty of wrongs. The other claiming theirs is the best thing ever and perfect when it clearly also has plenty of things that can be challenged.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Who claimed anyone is perfect? I am pulling you up on your claims.

What attracts scrutiny are poor attempts at substantiating claims. You made the claim Islam is a racist religion, now back it up. 2 Googled verses from the Hadith, out of context, are not an 'easy refutation' of claim nor proof of claims, verses from the Qur'an are.

They are not out of context. They are well with in the context and authentic.

This is like saying caste system is not there in Vedas and hence Hinduism is not caste based. Hinduism is majorly flawed in its societal structure and it is a brutal one for Dalits as they are denied entry into temples and becoming priests. Dalits were also not allowed to enter areas where caste hindus used to live. I don't deny any of it like you are doing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Fair points - though ripping millions of families apart over a thousand years was still the wrong thing to do.

Of course. But then imagine nuking entire cities in just a few days in comparison, yet you still claim that was justified because it won the war for the empire.