Is the stat-padding culture hurting Pakistan cricket?

[Zaz]

Rob Key was spot on during commentary.

He said that you cannot have 2 batters playing the sort of innings that Babar and Imam did when you are chasing the sort of total Pakistan was chasing during the 1st ODI.

He also said that one of them should have attacked and been a lot more positive, instead both just continued to bat the way they did despite the rrr increasing.

Pakistan is still playing the old fashioned way of conserving wkts for the lower order to hit out in the end and score 10 runs an over to win
Most teams like england, australia have moved on from this dated risky strategy

Youre putting all your eggs in one basket and risking players imploding under the pressure of the rising rate

Yes 9-10 runs an over is very achievable in this t20 day and age but why make it difficult for the batsmen coming in unnecessarily, make it easier and keep up with the rate or get ahead so its a cakewalk for them instead

Im sure ifti and khushdil would rather and be more successful comin in and having time to settle a little rather than having to hit from the off

 

[Markhor]

Not their mistake.

You need a proper coach who helps you in making a strategy to with in the game. When you have no coach, your strategy will always be a flawed one.

The issue is the new pcb culture under Rameez Raja. Rameez has said that coaches are useless and make no difference, thus Pakistan doesnt need one.

Not having a proper coach the result is there for everyone to see.

Saqlain Mushtaq was always hired as a spin bowling coach, he never got a head coach job because that is not his expertise.

Even when Misbah was coach, we had a separate bowling and separate batting coach, because the head coaches focus is on making a strategy and guiding the players with the strategy.

Babar is gonna be criticized unnecessarily, but it was not babar who told rameez raja to fire coaches or not bother to bring in a head coach. This was Rameez Raja's decision and Babar should not be bashed because of the chairman's stupidity.

Infact, Rameez Raja was a direct political appointee by the Prime Minister of Pakistan. He wasn't even a BOG member in the first place. He was added in the BOG so that he can be elected in as a Chairman. See how flaw the PCB constitution is?

Exactly. Problem is Imran Khan (and therefore Rameez Raja) have old school mindset that coaches are useless. Yes on the field, captain is the lead decision maker.

However they don't realise in modern era with three formats, crazy workloads, global T20 franchise circuit, wider pool of players, and massive volumes of data available - you can't put everything on captain's shoulders. Heck franchises hire whole teams for data analysis.

A top coach filters relevant information, identify opposition weakpoints, assess conditions and create strategies. They need to be the best thinker (Fleming/Mahela) not a random ex-player parroting "aggression, unpredictability, natural talunt"...

A coach isn't there to tell Babar Azam how to hold a bat but to explain Player X averages 22 vs full deliveries outside off, or short balls average 50 at this ground so we should select seamers with natural fuller lengths etc.

The coach was useless in Imran and Rameez era because they didn't have any of this data ! They had only their memory to rely on.

Their model of a puppet coach only works if we had a strong willed captain with a clear vision like Kohli, or tactically shrewd like Dhoni or Morgan. Babar is not either and needs more support than Saqlain "shabash" Mushtaq.

 

[Saj]

Yes 9-10 runs an over is very achievable in this t20 day and age but why make it difficult for the batsmen coming in unnecessarily, make it easier and keep up with the rate or get ahead so its a cakewalk for them instead

Yes across 6 or 7 overs it is.

But when it's a sluggish pitch which it had become by then in the 1st ODI and the opposition is not whipping boys, then it's unfair to expect players to come in and start whacking it around straight away which is what Pakistan was banking on.

 

[James]

Pakistan is still playing the old fashioned way of conserving wkts for the lower order to hit out in the end and score 10 runs an over to win
Most teams like england, australia have moved on from this dated risky strategy

Youre putting all your eggs in one basket and risking players imploding under the pressure of the rising rate

Yes 9-10 runs an over is very achievable in this t20 day and age but why make it difficult for the batsmen coming in unnecessarily

This is well observed.

The so called run chase attempt the other day on a tactical level did feel rather like watching something from a good 15-20 years ago, when the targets were often 260ish and not regularly over 300.

It had “approx 40th over catastrophic batting collapse” written all over it from quite early on.

I’d like to think the second ODI will play out differently but in my gut I honestly dread to think what could happen to be honest.

 

[TheSultan]

The problem is the PCB and Pakistani fans themselves encourage this behaviour. How many times have we seen in the last 12 months some random stats about Babar or Rizwan coming out on PCB’s social media channels and then pak fans themselves sharing it.

So many of these stats are pointless. Even when Pakistan were going down in the final test, we get the PCB release a ridiculous portrait of Azhar Ali and his 7000 runs. Then in the ODI, the team is collapsing and we get a portrait of Babar with 4000 runs, Imam portrait with 100.

And then we get some other ridiculous stat - Babar reached 4000 runs in fewer innings than Kohli.

We have gone full circle and are becoming India of the 90s who only celebrated Tendulkar’s stats despite the team losing.

 

[msb314]

View attachment 115479

And now compare it with this innings of Kohli. There is a reason why Kohli was called Master of Chase. Strike rate matters a lot in chase. Kohli did that with better average! World is full of players can still do it with lower strike rate but they have to be selfish enough to do it consistently for the losing cause.

Bump!

Has your opinion changed?

 

[Zaz]

This is well observed.

The so called run chase attempt the other day on a tactical level did feel rather like watching something from a good 15-20 years ago, when the targets were often 260ish and not regularly over 300.

It had “approx 40th over catastrophic batting collapse” written all over it from quite early on.

I’d like to think the second ODI will play out differently but in my gut I honestly dread to think what could happen to be honest.

Totally opposite strategy today and look at the effect it has on the result once players play for the team and be positive

 

[Markhor]

Let's hope the penny drops after this match.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There was no statpadding today. All batters batted selflessly and showed a lot more intent for winning. Hopefully the wheels continue to turn.

 

[shamaan]

There was no statpadding today. All batters batted selflessly and showed a lot more intent for winning. Hopefully the wheels continue to turn.

Babar strike rate was slightly better today but the difference was Fakhar played his role well.

 

[wrongun]

SR of 137 is outstanding in an ODI.

90-100 is a very good ODI SR and in general can be match winning, provided the team knows it's roles and there are 1 or 2 power hitters in the team (preferably 1 at the top, 1 lower middle order).

 

[Aman]

SR of 137 is outstanding in an ODI.

90-100 is a very good ODI SR and in general can be match winning, provided the team knows it's roles and there are 1 or 2 power hitters in the team (preferably 1 at the top, 1 lower middle order).

It is, but that was like your z list bowling line up lol.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Babar strike rate was slightly better today but the difference was Fakhar played his role well.

Babar was a lot more fluent and showed a lot more intent today. Imam's pacing of his knock was much much better than he has ever done. Probably his first where he scored 50 at a 100+SR. Fakhar is an impact player. Him doing well always bodes well for the team's victory chances.

 

[shamaan]

Babar was a lot more fluent and showed a lot more intent today. Imam's pacing of his knock was much much better than he has ever done. Probably his first where he scored 50 at a 100+SR. Fakhar is an impact player. Him doing well always bodes well for the team's victory chances.

Yes he was more fluent and showed more intend becouse he came at the creese after 20 overs.the mindset changes.

 

[Zaz]

Yes he was more fluent and showed more intend becouse he came at the creese after 20 overs.the mindset changes.

Whether you come in after 4 overs or 20 overs that shouldnt affect the mindset

Theres plenty of batting, the aim should be to go hard whenever you arrive at the crease

The chasing score doesnt change so why should the way you play?

 

[adi_62941]

Imam slowed down near to his 100 in 2nd ODI as well babar. Ok they performed really well but it will not work in tournament or important matches. You have to play for your team, even if you are on 99 and team run rate demand to go for hit, then the batsmen should not wait

 

[wrongun]

It is, but that was like your z list bowling line up lol.

Zampa, Green, Stoinis I woud all expect to be in our #1 lineup.

The top XI is fluid to some degree on form & conditions. I could see Swepson being in it in Asia. Abbott is a B lister but a regular one.

As the saying goes, you can only play what's in front of you. Babar played that well & did the job. When people count Tendulkar or Pontings 100s they don't check that Warne had just had shoulder surgery or whomever was missing. They all count.

Babar played well. I really like watching him. Success for his future I hope. This could be his time.

 

[Saj]

There was no statpadding today. All batters batted selflessly and showed a lot more intent for winning. Hopefully the wheels continue to turn.

Yes and it needs to be the case in every match, not just after they've had plenty of criticism.

 

[shamaan]

Whether you come in after 4 overs or 20 overs that shouldnt affect the mindset

Theres plenty of batting, the aim should be to go hard whenever you arrive at the crease

The chasing score doesnt change so why should the way you play?

It shouldn't but it does.when you have 3 batters and the rest bits and pieces you will try and take the game deep as you can't relie on them.

 

[Zaz]

It shouldn't but it does.when you have 3 batters and the rest bits and pieces you will try and take the game deep as you can't relie on them.

I wouldnt call the likes of rizwan, ifti, khushdil and saud bits and pieces They are more than capable batsmen

 

[shamaan]

I wouldnt call the likes of rizwan, ifti, khushdil and saud bits and pieces They are more than capable batsmen

Ifti and Khushdil are playing as all rounders

 

[Kianig89]

The curse of stats padding should be eliminated from this team. All this started since the Akmals came in the team

 

[MenInG]

Shoaib Malik speaking in an interview:

"Babar Azam is a great batter but we do injustice by putting his leadership qualities and batting ability on the same scale"

"This will help Babar Azam make more records on an international level as the pressure on him will be limited to his batting"

 

[Rana]

Shoaib Malik speaking in an interview:

"Babar Azam is a great batter but we do injustice by putting his leadership qualities and batting ability on the same scale"

"This will help Babar Azam make more records on an international level as the pressure on him will be limited to his batting"

Malik with his usual pointless comments

How will Babar focus more on records if a true captain forces him to bat at 3 in T20i cricket?

 

[MenInG]

Malik with his usual pointless comments

How will Babar focus more on records if a true captain forces him to bat at 3 in T20i cricket?

But isn't he telling Babar to leave captaincy so he can do more personal records?

 

[Rana]

But isn't he telling Babar to leave captaincy so he can do more personal records?

Babar can’t pursue personal records if forced to bat out of his comfort zone.

He is doing the right thing batting at 3 in ODI, and he reluctantly knows that 4 is his position in Test cricket. Whatever runs he achieves in these two formats and whatever records he breaks should be appreciated and respected

If Babar gives up his captaincy in T20i, there is no guarantee that a more appropriate captain will want him to bat as an opener especially considering the HUGE hole at number 3, and Babar is the most qualified (technically) to play at that position. There is no denying this. There is no proper number 3 in Pakistan for T20s

If Babar is forced to play in that position, well there is a great chance that he won’t be getting the lion share of the powerplay, and he will also be batting with the pressure of a wicket to have already fallen. This is where he cannot already have his sights on personal milestones the way he can without the freedom of the clean slate you get batting as an opener.

At number 3, believe me a 40 ball 55 is an excellent contribution and it is perfect for other players to play around you. No one will criticise Babar for this at number 3. But as an opener, it’s pretty poor if you ask me.

My view on cricket is different to 99% of people here. I am proud of it, and I don’t care if people disagree with my view. It’s an honest view

 

[muqarrab]

Rizwan is the only stats padder in the team right now. Babar shifted to 6th gear in the last match. Rizwan cannot get out of tortoise gear while he is racking up his 50s.

 

[MenInG]

Babar Azam scored 54 off 62 - Was he statpadding or playing according to the conditions?

 

[gazza619]

Just witnessed a selfish display of ODI batting by Pakistan in the third ODI vs NZ

 

[MRSN]

Just see Imam tuk tukking for his 100. This team is really obsessed with personal milestones. Brings back the golden Misbah days. Truly unwatchable.

 

[gazza619]

Iftimania is the only way to make our ODI XI interesting.

 

[JAV12341]

I’d get rid of Imam ul haq and blood in Haris or Hassan Nawaz. His slow timid approach is a false hope he gives everyone.

 

[Saj]

Seems to be Fakhar or bust.

Too many batters with a similar style and temperament in the Pakistan ODI line-up these days.

 

[The_KING]

The biggest issue is the lower order. How can you have Salman, Shadab and Nawaz at 6,7 & 8? Not a single power hitter. Pakistan think tank is absolutely clueless.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Imam playing for himself, wasted PP and then zero acceleration. He was looking to get 100 then play some big shots. He deserves egg on his face for getting out in 90s.

 

[gazza619]

We need to play 6 specialist bowlers with the selfish batters

 

[Mamoon]

How to be popular among Pakistani fans - score 0 hundreds, 0 fifties and play 10 balls per innings but make sure your SR is 300.

If you are a proper batsman who is good at scoring 50s and 100s, you will be bashed left, right and centre.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Seems to be Fakhar or bust.

Too many batters with a similar style and temperament in the Pakistan ODI line-up these days.

This issue will be reason Pakistan will flop in world cup unless fakhar comes to the party, having snails in top 3 where other players show zero initiative early on imam, babar etc.. will be exposed.

 

[shamaan]

How to be popular among Pakistani fans - score 0 hundreds, 0 fifties and play 10 balls per innings but make sure your SR is 300.

If you are a proper batsman who is good at scoring 50s and 100s, you will be bashed left, right and centre.

I agree pakistani fans would rather have quicks 30s instead of playing big Innings.

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan middle order is the weak link.

 

[Maher96]

We finally won a Series.

Who cares if they batted slow as long as they win the game.

Bowling came good. Team effort.

 

[ammar_merry]

How to be popular among Pakistani fans - score 0 hundreds, 0 fifties and play 10 balls per innings but make sure your SR is 300.

If you are a proper batsman who is good at scoring 50s and 100s, you will be bashed left, right and centre.

Its so uncommon for Pakistani fans that top 3 are consistent and are in top 10 rankings. They are use to sung praises of players with 23-24 avgs and consider them their Cult heroes. AKA imran nazir, S Afridi, Kamran Akmal. The three mentioned have played same/ more amount of cricket at top 3 in ODI's and are considered heroes.

 

[IMMY69]

I'm all for stat padding if it means greater consistency

 

[gazza619]

We finally won a Series.

Who cares if they batted slow as long as they win the game.

Bowling came good. Team effort.

They played too too slow. It was totally unacceptable. That was a 330 deck.

If it wasnt for the two run outs, NZ B team would have cruised to victory.

I hope Babar & team management see it this way. Otherwise we will do the same thing in a crucial WC game and get knocked out against a quality opposition.

If Pakistani batters want to play this way, then we need to play with 6 specialist bowlers to have a better chance to defend average totals against quality teams.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I think it is their batting style and they are limited by their ability as well. Almost all of babars 100 have come at a good rate , imam and fakhar are two of the best pakistan odi openers we have ever had. Sometimes it really hurts to see them slowing down when reaching a milestones and this definitely needs to change but i dont think they can improve their strike rate much. Babar loses his shape when trying to accelerate , imam is a dud against quality short bowling and fakhars feet will trouble him a lot when the ball is moving around. But all in all they are the best top 3 pakistan can hope to have in the current scenario.

 

[MenInG]

Criticism of Babar Azam for being slow as he approaces his hundred.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Criticism of Babar Azam for being slow as he approaces his hundred.

Deserves all criticism he is getting. What a pathetic selfish effort. Slowing down in death overs. Pakistan should have been looking at 330-40 with platform they had.

 

[Rana]

I like Babar at 3, but it’s painful to see a set batsman taking singles in the death overs so that they can achieve their personal milestone

 

[as-95]

Deserves all criticism he is getting. What a pathetic selfish effort. Slowing down in death overs. Pakistan should have been looking at 330-40 with platform they had.

They got 330-340 ser?

 

[Rana]

They got 330-340 ser?

Amjid is right

You don’t intentionally take singles in the death overs. Very good closing out by Ifti, Harris, Salman and Shaheen

Babar didn’t make the 340 possible with his intent

 

[deems]

They got 330-340 ser?

They got there due to brilliance from 3 lower order players in one game. That's not a regular occurrence.
Babar played selfishly!

 

[zarak]

They got 330-340 ser?

That does not matter. On another day Haris and Shaheen would not bail us out and we would end up with 290. You have to maximize the team total. He needs to get his 100 before the 40th over.

It is quite embarrassing sometimes to watch him do this.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

It is a hard line to draw. He doesn't score a century and the end guys get out quick and we finish with 260. He should have been better but on such an inconsistent batting team, it is tough.

He does have a huge issue with hitting big though. Shaheen looks like a much better power hitter.

 

[Snowflake]

Does this surprise us anymore after what we saw in the T20 series? Imad striking at 200+, was trying to give the strike to Rizwan in the 50 OVER to complete his century?

Wasn't that the height of stat padding?

I think it's not just the team but also Pakistan as a cricketing nation has become obsesses with stats. The crowd is more interested in watching Babar hit a century than they are in watching us post a competitive score. We regularly slow down when a batsman is nearing a century.

This issue has become so prevalent in our team that it needs a serious overhauling and intervention by either the management or the board. This Friends XI is all about personal milestones.

 

[Third Man]

It is a hard line to draw. He doesn't score a century and the end guys get out quick and we finish with 260. He should have been better but on such an inconsistent batting team, it is tough.

He does have a huge issue with hitting big though. Shaheen looks like a much better power hitter.

That is rather obvious. Babar should try to look at the older Hafeez to learn how to hit a cricket ball without losing your shape. That's the kind of approach he should be taking to hitting. More timing and placement and less brute force because he doesn't have much of it and loses shape if he tries to hit it too hard.

 

[heddie19]

That does not matter. On another day Haris and Shaheen would not bail us out and we would end up with 290. You have to maximize the team total. He needs to get his 100 before the 40th over.

It is quite embarrassing sometimes to watch him do this.

But it is not another day, is it?

 

[Rana]

Does this surprise us anymore after what we saw in the T20 series? Imad striking at 200+, was trying to give the strike to Rizwan in the 50 OVER to complete his century?

Wasn't that the height of stat padding?

I think it's not just the team but also Pakistan as a cricketing nation has become obsesses with stats. The crowd is more interested in watching Babar hit a century than they are in watching us post a competitive score. We regularly slow down when a batsman is nearing a century.

This issue has become so prevalent in our team that it needs a serious overhauling and intervention by either the management or the board. This Friends XI is all about personal milestones.

I’ll tell you the problem bro

It’s Virat Kohli. Pakistan as a nation need someone to match Kohli (stats wise) to feel better about themselves

Just the sad reality. Kohli is such a huge, influential player in the sub continent without even playing Pakistan much in his career

 

[MenInG]

Think we should all stop crying now. We have some people hoping he gets out early etc!

He got the innings to a point where we had a great platform.

The whole world is praising Babar but we continue to chastise him. Let him play the way he wants.

 

[Rana]

But it is not another day, is it?

How do you justify intentionally taking singles in the 45th to 47th over?

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

That is rather obvious. Babar should try to look at the older Hafeez to learn how to hit a cricket ball without losing your shape. That's the kind of approach he should be taking to hitting. More timing and placement and less brute force because he doesn't have much of it and loses shape if he tries to hit it too hard.

After 100 he almost always gets out right away. Sad realty.

 

[Rana]

Think we should all stop crying now. We have some people hoping he gets out early etc!

He got the innings to a point where we had a great platform.

The whole world is praising Babar but we continue to chastise him. Let him play the way he wants.

But why though? He has the ability to play the best, so why should he not push himself and why should those who are not yet established have to bat out of their skins for him?

 

[Snowflake]

I’ll tell you the problem bro

It’s Virat Kohli. Pakistan as a nation need someone to match Kohli (stats wise) to feel better about themselves

Just the sad reality. Kohli is such a huge, influential player in the sub continent without even playing Pakistan much in his career

That's a fair point. I agree. We are trying to build our own version of Kohli and the easiest way to do that is through stats. Fans aren't nuanced enough to understand the game in terms of impact.

 

[MenInG]

But why though? He has the ability to play the best, so why should he not push himself and why should those who are not yet established have to bat out of their skins for him?

Because those who are not yest established can only bat well in the final few overs.

Listen to Agha interview - he only batted well because he had an established batter next to him.

We want Babar to play a rash shot and then for us to sit and cry when we cant get to 250.

Just give it a rest now.

 

[Firebat]

Babar went from 75 (86) to 100 (113).

That's 25 runs from 27 balls, 0 boundaries.

 

[Snowflake]

Think we should all stop crying now. We have some people hoping he gets out early etc!

He got the innings to a point where we had a great platform.

The whole world is praising Babar but we continue to chastise him. Let him play the way he wants.

Why though? Especially if we've seen, several times, how his knocks have hurt Pakistan.

Enough of setting up the platform! That's all we hear about with Babar. Is he capable of just that? He's a platform setter, Imam is a platform setter, Rizwan is a platform setter...

Why do we always need someone else to give impetus to our innings? Is the best batsman in the world not capable of doing that? Why can Kohli obliterate attacks but Babar can't?

Stop setting mediocre standards for someone we claim to be the best in the world.

 

[Snowflake]

Babar went from 75 (86) to 100 (113).

That's 25 runs from 27 balls, 0 boundaries.

In the later stages of the innings. If someone can justify this, I am all ears.

 

[MenInG]

That's a fair point. I agree. We are trying to build our own version of Kohli and the easiest way to do that is through stats. Fans aren't nuanced enough to understand the game in terms of impact.

Yes and we are proud of Babar Azam as a Pakistani should be.

 

[Rana]

Because those who are not yest established can only bat well in the final few overs.

Listen to Agha interview - he only batted well because he had an established batter next to him.

We want Babar to play a rash shot and then for us to sit and cry when we cant get to 250.

Just give it a rest now.

So your argument is that for Pakistan to have a good wave of an attack at the back end, they need an anchor at one end?

It’s 2023. This isn’t NZ’s first team. This isn’t a crucial World Cup game. Babar is the fastest to score 5000 ODI runs, it’s not beyond him to be looking to hit boundaries also in the back end of the innings

 

[MenInG]

Why though? Especially if we've seen, several times, how his knocks have hurt Pakistan.

Enough of setting up the platform! That's all we hear about with Babar. Is he capable of just that? He's a platform setter, Imam is a platform setter, Rizwan is a platform setter...

Why do we always need someone else to give impetus to our innings? Is the best batsman in the world not capable of doing that? Why can Kohli obliterate attacks but Babar can't?

Stop setting mediocre standards for someone we claim to be the best in the world.

Why not? if you don't have a platform, you have nothing to build upon.

Just criticism for the sake of it ALL the time is counterproductive. Of course Babar could have scored his 100 at 200 SR but that's fine - he is not a superman but the best we have.

 

[Snowflake]

Because those who are not yest established can only bat well in the final few overs.

Listen to Agha interview - he only batted well because he had an established batter next to him.

We want Babar to play a rash shot and then for us to sit and cry when we cant get to 250.

Just give it a rest now.

This! We're always so afraid of failure that we never push ourselves. We think that Babar playing at a higher strike rate equals to him playing a rash shot and getting out. Then we say that he's the best in the world.

If we're so afraid of failure, we need to stop watching/playing this sport. Always thinking about what can go wrong. Never thinking about what could go right.

We want Babar to play at a higher strike rate so that we consistently post winnings totals with such a strong batting line-up. We do not want to finish runners up in the WC final, we want to win the WC final. We do not want to finish runners up in the Asia Cup final, we want to win it.

Misbah used to justify his innings by saying the same thing "if I had not played the way I did, Pak would've collapsed." How easily was that myth busted?

 

[Snowflake]

Why not? if you don't have a platform, you have nothing to build upon.

Just criticism for the sake of it ALL the time is counterproductive. Of course Babar could have scored his 100 at 200 SR but that's fine - he is not a superman but the best we have.

Because that is what all what our TOP 4 batsmen do! It is excessive! And we do not have quality lower order to rely on every single game. Chacha has largely been a failure most of his career, he's only come good recently. Less said abaout Nawaz and Shadab the better. So, it's a flawed and outdated strategy to build a platform and capitalize on it later.

No one is asking him to score at 200 strike rate. Only asking him to put team's interest first.

Babar went from 75 (86) to 100 (113).

That's 25 runs from 27 balls, 0 boundaries.

That is not setting up a platform.

 

[MenInG]

This! We're always so afraid of failure that we never push ourselves. We think that Babar playing at a higher strike rate equals to him playing a rash shot and getting out. Then we say that he's the best in the world.

If we're so afraid of failure, we need to stop watching/playing this sport. Always thinking about what can go wrong. Never thinking about what could go right.

We want Babar to play at a higher strike rate so that we consistently post winnings totals with such a strong batting line-up. We do not want to finish runners up in the WC final, we want to win the WC final. We do not want to finish runners up in the Asia Cup final, we want to win it.

Misbah used to justify his innings by saying the same thing "if I had not played the way I did, Pak would've collapsed." How easily was that myth busted?

Why are you so interested in failing? Why not do what's the best way to forward? When you have 5 other SKY type batters who are established then lets talk about this failure thing.

Look I am sure Babar can improve but if it lets him perform better by reaching his hundred and not throw it away when he is 60 so he can please some then so be it.

 

[Rana]

18 hundreds before the age of 30

He has to finish with 30+ tons

 

[Snowflake]

So your argument is that for Pakistan to have a good wave of an attack at the back end, they need an anchor at one end?

It’s 2023. This isn’t NZ’s first team. This isn’t a crucial World Cup game. Babar is the fastest to score 5000 ODI runs, it’s not beyond him to be looking to hit boundaries also in the back end of the innings

Some people, including our team, is still living in the 90s.

Obsession with keeping wickets in hand. Afraid that a collapse is always around the corner - DESPITE having 3 batsmen that are in the top 5 ranking in the world! What is the point of all these rankings/milestones if you are going to play like a scaredy cat?

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Because those who are not yest established can only bat well in the final few overs.

Listen to Agha interview - he only batted well because he had an established batter next to him.

We want Babar to play a rash shot and then for us to sit and cry when we cant get to 250.

Just give it a rest now.

I agree with this entirely.

A player scoring a century at a run a ball gives way for players who are in and out to really come in and play freely.

Babar has flaws of course, but no century and we are potentially talking another Pakistani collapse.

It is a game of inches. One wicket of Babar's can mean a 150 all out or a 340 total even if it is just at run a ball, but these nuances are missed by people because of his lack of power hitting and sometimes selfish stat padding.

We are unfair to Babar too. He has so many big matches, wins, scores, has the numbers. We should be proud of him and that he brings pride to the green and white to the rest of the world.

 

[Snowflake]

Why are you so interested in failing? Why not do what's the best way to forward? When you have 5 other SKY type batters who are established then lets talk about this failure thing.

Look I am sure Babar can improve but if it lets him perform better by reaching his hundred and not throw it away when he is 60 so he can please some then so be it.

Wait up. I am interested in failing? I am arguing FOR him to play at a higher strike rate because I believe he can. You were the one who said We want Babar to play a rash shot and then for us to sit and cry when we cant get to 250. Clearly, you are fearful of failure all the time.

This post just made my head spin lol!

 

[MenInG]

Some people, including our team, is still living in the 90s.

Obsession with keeping wickets in hand. Afraid that a collapse is always around the corner - DESPITE having 3 batsmen that are in the top 5 ranking in the world! What is the point of all these rankings/milestones if you are going to play like a scaredy cat?

Some people like to make sure we actually win and not worry about impressing others with stories of strike rate nonsense.

If setting up a platform works for Pakistan and we win, then that works for me.

And those 3 batters in top 5 today?

Fakhar Zaman 14(17)
Imam - not playing.

Yes and Babar should have made a handsome 60 to keep people happy?

 

[Snowflake]

Some people like to make sure we actually win and not worry about impressing others with stories of strike rate nonsense.

If setting up a platform works for Pakistan and we win, then that works for me.

And those 3 batters in top 5 today?

Fakhar Zaman 14(17)
Imam - not playing.

Yes and Babar should have made a handsome 60 to keep people happy?

But it does not. We have lost a number of big games because of this approach and you know it.

Err, no. He should have scored at a higher strike rate, should not have slowed down when close to his 100.... and we should not have relied on Shaheen Afridi to get us to a winning score. Again, why are you so worried about Babar, the best batsman in the world, failing if he plays at a higher strike rate?

 

[MenInG]

But it does not. We have lost a number of big games because of this approach and you know it.

Err, no. He should have scored at a higher strike rate, should not have slowed down when close to his 100.... and we should not have relied on Shaheen Afridi to get us to a winning score. Again, why are you so worried about Babar, the best batsman in the world, failing if he plays at a higher strike rate?

Because I want him to set the base up for the big hitters (so called) to come and do their thing. If Fakhar had hung around (which he has failed to do for past 2 innings) then you had a case for Babar to speed up but he was gone, as was Riz.

 

[Snowflake]

Because I want him to set the base up for the big hitters (so called) to come and do their thing. If Fakhar had hung around (which he has failed to do for past 2 innings) then you had a case for Babar to speed up but he was gone, as was Riz.

We're not just talking about this game. Thread is about stat padding culture as a whole.

We all know our "big hitters" are not reliable. They are no Razzaq/Afridi. Also, Fakhar, Rizwan, Imam all play the same role in the team; i.e. set the base up. We can't have 4 players playing 40+ overs in an ODI at a strike rate of 90.

We have seen enough of Babar to know that he doesn't change the way he plays. So, let's not kid ourselves with made up scenarios.