Is the Wahab-Hafeez combo toxic for Pakistan cricket?

Is the Wahab-Hafeez combo toxic for Pakistan cricket?


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gazza619

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Enough is enough. Team isn't happy. Fans aren't happy. Cricket is the only thing left that brings some sort of joy for the nation and yet we are determined to destroy whatever we have.

I urge to whoever has power, to do the right thing and fire Wahab & Hafeez from the team set up.
 
Enough is enough. Team isn't happy. Fans aren't happy. Cricket is the only thing left that brings some sort of joy for the nation and yet we are determined to destroy whatever we have.

I urge to whoever has power, to do the right thing and fire Wahab & Hafeez from the team set up.
Why are the fans not happy? Which section of fans? The ones who love Babar+Rizwan opening combination?
 
It’s honestly refreshing to see a management that is actually trying to give you the right players and combinations that are expected in cricket.

The players need to step up. Azam Khan needs to step up and repay the faith.
 
I don't agree with it. It's too early to judge. Let it unfold, and I'll analyze them after one year.
 
I wouldn't cast such a judgement quite yet as both have done to withstand the pressure coming from the Saya mafia plus they have made some good calls such as giving ample chances to our best talents (Saim, Azam, Mir Hamza etc) and getting rid of Rizbar.

More action is still required however and if they fail to bring in the needed change than yes I agree they need to go.

There three main priorities before the 24 world cup should be:
1. Appointing a different T20I captain- Shaheen does not have the intelligence imo
2. Partner Saim with an aggressive opener
3. At the very least bring in Dahani, Hasnain, Sarfraz, Abrar and Farhan into the T20I setup
 
Why isn’t team happy lol? Because dosti yaari got questioned .
 
The damage caused by the previous regimes post 2019 will take a long, long time to repair. Not a flick of the switch process.
 
If you remember back to my comment back in early December, I was shocked at his coaching methods. It was as if he was showing 12 year old kids how to bowl spin.
I am glad these tv pandits are now being humiliated, thanks to the results. Best thing for Pakistan cricket will be to lose 5 nil to NZ.
 
I am glad these tv pandits are now being humiliated, thanks to the results. Best thing for Pakistan cricket will be to lose 5 nil to NZ.
What will it do? Bring back Ramiz Raja? Is that who you want?

Who do you want?
 
Enough is enough. Team isn't happy. Fans aren't happy. Cricket is the only thing left that brings some sort of joy for the nation and yet we are determined to destroy whatever we have.

I urge to whoever has power, to do the right thing and fire Wahab & Hafeez from the team set up.
What happened? Can you elaborate how they are "destroying" cricket?
 
What happened? Can you elaborate how they are "destroying" cricket?
Maybe cricket wasn’t being destroyed with the flat roads laid out in the home test series against England, Australia and New Zealand?
 
What will it do? Bring back Ramiz Raja? Is that who you want?

Who do you want?
You can't compare Zaka the leaking clown and Sethi the budha humiliated by his own with RR. Have you seen what has happened to domestic cricket? Have you seen how they leak things? Have you seen how they appoint criminals to official positions.
 
They both need to be sacked asap. No idea about their coaching credentials, but if they are picking Azam Khan between his bouts of Man vs Food then they have no business in selectorial process. Whoever backed them needs to be sacked as well.
 
Nothing to complain about - it’s relatively the same team playing against better oppositions with such results expected.

Hope the stronger oppositions continue
 
They should be given the same chances as others. After all they were brought on for a reason?
 
They both need to be sacked asap. No idea about their coaching credentials, but if they are picking Azam Khan between his bouts of Man vs Food then they have no business in selectorial process. Whoever backed them needs to be sacked as well.
This, should be sacked for selecting Azam Khan. Forget all the other blunders.
 
Absolute terrible combination.

They behave like old high school headmasters.

Funniest thing is Hafeez trying to impose fines on players and then missing his own flight.

And that's apart from him giving excuses for the on field performance.

Wahab's selection hypocrisy is there for all to see as well.
 
Maybe cricket wasn’t being destroyed with the flat roads laid out in the home test series against England, Australia and New Zealand?
It has become so ridiculous lately. The word destroy alongside Cricket doesn't even have the same effect anymore. It has lost its meaning
 
I completely disagree with the OP. If not for Hafeez and Wahab, we would have been playing with the same group of players and would have same results in world tournaments. At least they have the guts to make changes and go for experimentation and try new combos. Something that is new to pakistani team and pakistan fans - hence the level of discomfort observed. The young deserving players are definitely happy with this and so are the intelligent fans who dont associate themselves to player fan clubs. I say more power to Hafeez and Wahab. Keep this up! And i pray you take more courageous decision. I am afraid they wont be able to do it for too long due to the impatient and fickle nature of the people of pakistan.
 
Anybody would do.
But that isn’t the solution is it brother? If there is a problem with the current selection committee and coaching staff, how could anybody just do to make it better?

What do you see as the problem? And what would be your solution?

I used to complain about ‘selfishness’ being a problem in the team, I provided my understanding of the solution being to appoint Asif Ali as captain, because I felt that the guy was the only one that was actually playing sincerely for his country and not for his personal records. I took a lot of stick for it, but my suggestion was sincere. If you are sincere about this team, what is your hones solution?
 
I provided my understanding of the solution being to appoint Asif Ali as captain, because I felt that the guy was the only one that was actually playing sincerely for his country
This is where we both think so very differently.

I don’t mind making changes, but there needs to be logic and merit.
Blindness slogging is not my definition of sincerity.
 
This is where we both think so very differently.

I don’t mind making changes, but there needs to be logic and merit.
Blindness slogging is not my definition of sincerity.
So we are getting somewhere with the solution from your perspective now…what would you change right now and who do you want in what position of authority?
 
Didn't PCB literally just fire everyone and overhaul a couple of months ago and now people want the same to happen again? Even if you don't believe in Hafeez/Wahab, I am not sure firing everyone every few months is a reasonable solution. All this constant change & instability is ridiculous.

Pakistan has been competitive every match too. Sure you would like for them to win but they're facing Aus & NZ in their own condition. These teams are great enough without home advantage and Pakistan are a mid-tier team too.
 
So we are getting somewhere with the solution from your perspective now…what would you change right now and who do you want in what position of authority?
I want somebody on merit.

Wahab & Professor have no merit.
 
I want somebody on merit.

Wahab & Professor have no merit.
What is the merit for CS? Who fits on merit?

As for Director/Coach…I agree, but who in your opinion should have this job? Who can and who should Pakistan hire for this role?
 
Pakistan have hit a combined total of 9 sixes in two powerplays

That’s 8 balls per six far in the powerplay for Pakistan.

Isn’t this signs of a clear attempt at improving and playing the modern game?
 
Pakistan have hit a combined total of 9 sixes in two powerplays

That’s 8 balls per six far in the powerplay for Pakistan.

Isn’t this signs of a clear attempt at improving and playing the modern game?
NZ in comparison has hit 6 sixes in the two powerplays, they were all from 1 guy (Fin Allen)

Pakistan are doing their best and it’s refreshing to see the guys playing for the country for once. We lose trying to play for the country, so be it!
 
Wahab has made some silly statements but his selections have generally been ok.

Hafeez is just an odd dude. Seems quite bitter with a chip on his shoulder and thinks he is smarter than he is.

Reminds me of a slightly saner version of Gambhir.

I don't understand his role at the moment.

However we need to give the new regime some time before making an assessment.

The Australian series scoreline wasn't a surprise but the team did ok in patches. I don't like the scoreline of the current NZ series but im seeing some good signs.
 
Apart from Wahab’s lack of professionalism in the media and his hypocrisy when it comes to selection, I can’t really see what else they’ve done wrong.

Resting Mohammad Haris was a mistake, that’s for sure.
Mohammad Haris has average of 7.5 in odis, 14 in t20I , 24 in all t20s. That doesn't look promising.
 
It is easier to talk on TV then to actually get results. 0% win/loss ratio in 5 international games so far. They will learn their lesson soon.
 
Mohammad Haris has average of 7.5 in odis, 14 in t20I , 24 in all t20s. That doesn't look promising.

way too early into his career to be judging him of his stats.

Averaging 24 at a strike rate of 140+ is decent, but he’s better than that. He’ll end his career averaging mid 30’s with a strike rate close to 150.
 
Didn't PCB literally just fire everyone and overhaul a couple of months ago and now people want the same to happen again? Even if you don't believe in Hafeez/Wahab, I am not sure firing everyone every few months is a reasonable solution. All this constant change & instability is ridiculous.

Pakistan has been competitive every match too. Sure you would like for them to win but they're facing Aus & NZ in their own condition. These teams are great enough without home advantage and Pakistan are a mid-tier team too.
Among all your chief selectors, Mohammad Wasim seemed to be the most competent of the lot.

There was really no reason to change that.
 
This could end in tears

3-0 loss vs australia

And what most likely could be 5-0 or 4-1 in this current t20 bilateral.


What matters is results, no one cares if you took it to the wire and competed and trialled youngsters .

at one stage people will expect the management to show the wins.
 
Majority of these players are semi professional. They do not conduct themselves as pro cricketers, this reflects in their diet and attitude.

You can change the coaching staff all you want but until the players start taking their work seriously and I mean 100% every single day then the results will be the same.

The standards are getting worse as time is going on, now there is an obese person in the squad.
 
after the elections both will be history. New government, old PCB back,

Babar most likely captains at the WC for us.

Only sane option, the rest are club level!

Afridi is just a Afridi, we seen his Father in law tenure. Terrible skipper.

Rizwan as VC, is lurking to take over anyway.

This combo is reaping any rewards for us. All the talk during the WC and this result 5 defeats and counting….
 
can’t keep chopping and changing every series or on the back of 2 t20 games. Give them a year and then pass judgment.

Giving Jamal, Khurram and ultimately Siam their test debuts in Australia were excellent decisions. Jamal ended up being the player of the series for us.

Good to see Siam now opening in T20 with abbas and Jamal also getting opportunities with the ball. We need to give opportunities to deserving players and figure out the best 11 from there.
 
Didn't PCB literally just fire everyone and overhaul a couple of months ago and now people want the same to happen again? Even if you don't believe in Hafeez/Wahab, I am not sure firing everyone every few months is a reasonable solution. All this constant change & instability is ridiculous.

Pakistan has been competitive every match too. Sure you would like for them to win but they're facing Aus & NZ in their own condition. These teams are great enough without home advantage and Pakistan are a mid-tier team too.

Agree.

Hafeez-Wahab should be allowed to continue till 2024 World T20 at least.
 
Bad or good, they deserve 1-2 years to settle in.

One of the worst things about Pakistani cricket is the constant changes. Even the greatest managers can't implement their vision within months.

It also harms the players in the system because one selector/coach has a particular vision and then the next one is completely different. This leads to confusing feedback and an "every man for himself" attitude. This is one of the reasons players are so selfish when playing for Pakistan.
 
after the elections both will be history. New government, old PCB back,

Babar most likely captains at the WC for us.

Only sane option, the rest are club level!

Afridi is just a Afridi, we seen his Father in law tenure. Terrible skipper.

Rizwan as VC, is lurking to take over anyway.

This combo is reaping any rewards for us. All the talk during the WC and this result 5 defeats and counting….
InshaAllah this never happens.
 
People expect teams to become WORLD BEATERS over night. If Pakistan won the first 2 games would we be having this conversation? If we win 3-2 will we be complaining? No. We Pakistanis are serious wrist slitters- prime definition.

This is the first tour for most these players playing in these conditions. We are giving youngsters are chance and have a different set up with more aggression. They need to be given time and see what the results are. After a fair period of time if we are in the same position fire them, but these things take time!
 
Majority of these players are semi professional. They do not conduct themselves as pro cricketers, this reflects in their diet and attitude.

You can change the coaching staff all you want but until the players start taking their work seriously and I mean 100% every single day then the results will be the same.

The standards are getting worse as time is going on, now there is an obese person in the squad.
They are playing in a different country in alien conditions to them. It comes with experience.
 
Bad or good, they deserve 1-2 years to settle in.

One of the worst things about Pakistani cricket is the constant changes. Even the greatest managers can't implement their vision within months.

It also harms the players in the system because one selector/coach has a particular vision and then the next one is completely different. This leads to confusing feedback and an "every man for himself" attitude. This is one of the reasons players are so selfish when playing for Pakistan.

1 or 2 yrs of zaka and wahab and professors tinkering will be the end of pakistan cricket

I guarantee you if rizwan and Babar were removed from all 3 formats , rested , retired banned whatever this team whatever format they played test , odi , t20 they would lose to uae, afghanistan , zimbawe , Bangladesh etc.
 
I guarantee you if rizwan and Babar were removed from all 3 formats , rested , retired banned whatever this team whatever format they played test , odi , t20 they would lose to uae, afghanistan , zimbawe , Bangladesh etc.
Is that a gaurentee from you?

Hopefully we see this play out. Just like we saw how you all argued Pakistan wouldn’t cross 100 if Babar and Rizwan don’t open the batting for Pakistan.
 
Don't know about Wahab but I think Hafeez is a better pick who knows cricket inside out so he can execute plans quite effectively.
 
As long as they don't deliver ppl will deem them as toxic but as soon as they start to deliver things will change.
 
We always blame management and coaches for consistent failures. Those who are mocking them for picking Azam Khan were the people who advocated his inclusion earlier. Have been telling this from day 1, its never about the coach, management or director- Its about players and their capabilities to do well at international.

In both t20s, how many runs did our middle order score ? What is the role of Haris Rauf as a bowler? How can he give minimum 2 boundaries in every over? What has Shaheen learnt in last 3 years as a cricketer? To bowl full and leak runs for fun ? How many chances does Usama need to find his length ?

These are the questions where players are responsible and should be held accountable.
 
According to the media report, players like Shaheen Afridi, Shadab Khan, Azam Khan, and others had requested NOCs for their participation in the upcoming second edition of ILT20, and the certificates were duly issued. However, when several prominent cricketers sought NOCs for the Bangladesh Premier League (BPL), Hafeez hesitated, putting their contracts in jeopardy.

The report indicates that during team meetings, the extended discussions and lengthy sessions led by Mohammad Hafeez are not well-received by senior players. The players express dissatisfaction, asserting that Hafeez's unnecessary interventions and prolonged talks are disrupting the team environment.

Team sources suggest that the friction is currently in its initial stages, but there is potential for the issues to escalate in the future. Complicating matters, the final of the ILT20, scheduled for February 17, coincides with the opening match of the Pakistan Super League (PSL) 9 on the same day. Notably, retired fast bowler Mohammad Amir has been granted an NOC for his participation in the ILT20.
 
Pakistan and all its major institutions are currently being ruled by the most toxic individuals. It’s only natural PCB a follows suit.

The country has gone to the dogs so why not cricket?
 
According to the media report, players like Shaheen Afridi, Shadab Khan, Azam Khan, and others had requested NOCs for their participation in the upcoming second edition of ILT20, and the certificates were duly issued. However, when several prominent cricketers sought NOCs for the Bangladesh Premier League (BPL), Hafeez hesitated, putting their contracts in jeopardy.

The report indicates that during team meetings, the extended discussions and lengthy sessions led by Mohammad Hafeez are not well-received by senior players. The players express dissatisfaction, asserting that Hafeez's unnecessary interventions and prolonged talks are disrupting the team environment.

Team sources suggest that the friction is currently in its initial stages, but there is potential for the issues to escalate in the future. Complicating matters, the final of the ILT20, scheduled for February 17, coincides with the opening match of the Pakistan Super League (PSL) 9 on the same day. Notably, retired fast bowler Mohammad Amir has been granted an NOC for his participation in the ILT20.

Professor giving long lecture haha, his nickname is so apt.

There just needs to be clear guidelines about how many leagues national player can player per year. If it's on an ah-hock basis, then it will cause issues. If players get disgruntled then many will just take early retirement and play leage cricket.
 
sooner or later Hafeez will become a problem. He talks a lot and is too opinionated. No one likes that. Players will get frustrated with him. Its coming.
 
I completely disagree with the OP. If not for Hafeez and Wahab, we would have been playing with the same group of players and would have same results in world tournaments. At least they have the guts to make changes and go for experimentation and try new combos. Something that is new to pakistani team and pakistan fans - hence the level of discomfort observed. The young deserving players are definitely happy with this and so are the intelligent fans who dont associate themselves to player fan clubs. I say more power to Hafeez and Wahab. Keep this up! And i pray you take more courageous decision. I am afraid they wont be able to do it for too long due to the impatient and fickle nature of the people of pakistan.
I’m not sure what’s courageous about getting smashed 3-0 in Australia and now possibly looking at a 5-0 hiding in the one format we were supposed to be decent at.

No judgments on the two so far though, will take them some time to learn the ropes. Unfortunately that would mean Pakistan bombing out of yet another ICC tournament later this year.
 
I’m not sure what’s courageous about getting smashed 3-0 in Australia and now possibly looking at a 5-0 hiding in the one format we were supposed to be decent at.

No judgments on the two so far though, will take them some time to learn the ropes. Unfortunately that would mean Pakistan bombing out of yet another ICC tournament later this year.
This is not the level to learn the scopes of coaching and selecting. That starts at domestic level.
 
The result of choosing recently retired cricketers over experienced ones. this combo will soon be a goner, and should be.
 
Professor giving long lecture haha, his nickname is so apt.

There just needs to be clear guidelines about how many leagues national player can player per year. If it's on an ah-hock basis, then it will cause issues. If players get disgruntled then many will just take early retirement and play leage cricket.
Hafeez manages the team in the same I would.
 
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Pakistan doesn't have any quality if a couple of players are injured or out of form. I would say that other than Naseem Shah right now there is hardly anything we can say is good enough.

We are so low on quality that people praise Rizwan's innings.
 
Please name an XI that will help Pakistan become one of the top sides in the world and prevent a mauling in places like New Zealand.

I’m waiting.

Hafeez and Wahab are toxic so let’s pretend that they have been replaced by a pair that is non-toxic. What will change?
 
I will not call Hafeez toxic. Yes, he seems strict, as Younis Khan was. Whoever starts taking strict actions to bring about change in the system, people start calling him toxic. This is because some of them seek quick results, while others are losing the benefits they were accustomed to in the old system.
 
Hafeez has left, but Wahab will stay as he apparently has good relations with Mohsin Naqvi.
 
I will not call Hafeez toxic. Yes, he seems strict, as Younis Khan was. Whoever starts taking strict actions to bring about change in the system, people start calling him toxic. This is because some of them seek quick results, while others are losing the benefits they were accustomed to in the old system.
Hafeez is a fool and an internet meme. Days after he imposed 'strict conditions' on players regarding discipline he missed his flight to Sydney because he was late. Do you think he is called 'professor' for his intellect and acumen? He is called that because he has a really self-serious and exhaustive way of analyzing every little thing, one that lends itself to people making fun of him. Everyone had their knives out when Misbah became head-coach with zero coaching credentials. How was making a guy who not only has zero coaching credentials but also an inflated sense of self-importance ever the answer?
 
I will not call Hafeez toxic. Yes, he seems strict, as Younis Khan was. Whoever starts taking strict actions to bring about change in the system, people start calling him toxic. This is because some of them seek quick results, while others are losing the benefits they were accustomed to in the old system.
Oh and Hafeez is toxic. He repeatedly threw his players under the bus in pressers on the Australian tour. And is now letting loose on Babar and Mickey Arthur on TV. Eventhough he was the one who came in through the back door to get the job because of his closeness to Zaka Ashraf. The worst thing about him is that he is self-righteous and deeply delusional. He thinks everything that he says and does is for the benefit of Pakistan cricket. But the reality is that he isn't as sharp or as in touch with reality as he thinks he is.
 
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