Is the Western viewpoint that international cricket cannot be played in Pakistan justified?

[Savak]

Yes, things in 2009 changed things dramatically for Pakistan and the PCB deserved to face international boycott of foreign teams wanting to come from Pakistan.

Yes, the western perception of security fears are somewhat justified in Pakistan. But it is not like there are zero foreigners in Pakistan right now. Islamabad is filled with foreigners, we have plenty of Foreigners living in Karachi and Lahore. We do have western tourists who come to Pakistan to tour our northern areas. I am pretty sure there are plenty of western businessmen who come to Pakistan for trade and commerce. Sure these guys have security arrangements in place and they should.

We have had plenty of foreign experts come in and work for PTV Sports as expert analysts.

Since 2009, we have had 15 international games played in Pakistan. I believe the PCB and the Pakistani government has now put up a sufficient sample size to prove that it can host international cricket in Pakistan and that the Pakistani security forces can provide very tight security and have learn't their lessons from the catastrophic experience in 2009.

Western players would definitely not like to tour Pakistan because of the boring, restrictive lifestyle of the country in comparison to what they enjoy in India and UAE and Western Countries. Pakistan is not necessarily that boring or conservative as they think and there are plenty of recreational options and activities for the players to indulge in. I believe one of the ICC demands from the PCB was that 7 star hotels have to be extremely close to the cricket grounds so that the players, but that is going to take ages.

But compared to 2009-10 and today, I definitely have more confidence that Pakistani security forces can provide top notch security to foreign teams. I am not saying that we should demand teams to play a full series i.e. 3 T-20's, 5 ODI's and 3 test matches straight away, but start with a 3 T-20 series, then build up to a 5 ODI match series and then host a test match.

Gradually bringing the PSL from UAE to Pakistan will help. I hope the PCB continues to lobby with the ICC to send World Eleven players for T-20 series, ODI series and even for a test match.

But the PCB needs to act real strict and put the Western Nakhray of unjustified refusals to tour Pakistan because it is a boring country in place and needs to learn the art of negotiating i.e. in exchange for another 2-3 years of no international cricket in Pakistan, the ICC must stipulate countries demanding that PCB plays its cricket in UAE to share costs 50-50, in exchange for no international cricket being played in Pakistan for the next 4-5 years, an establishment of an ICC fund which all ICC members should contribute a certain amount or % to every year to help the PCB fund its academies, upgradation of its cricket stadiums, facilities

Its all about making noise and lobbying hard aggressively behind the scenes.

 

[ipl_fan]

It is. The very fact that they need to bring a city to stand still and concentrate the whole security machinery on the protection of 20 players is the writing on the wall that something is wrong with the place.

 

[latecut]

Of course it is. Just look at some independent view instead of living in in your own deluded world view.

 

[slipcatch]

PCB need to stop wasting time on 2 issues.

1- trying to bring international cricket back to Pakistan, it will happen on its own in few years time. No need to force it.

2- Trying to play against India. Beside money factor, India’s team is just an ordinary team unless they are playing in India.

 

[Hitman]

Let's face it, every cricket board cares about it's own interest, nothing else. They couldn't care less what happens to any other cricket board. They won't even care if cricket completely dies in any other country. Every cricket board is the same, there is no exception. So why would they care to force their players to visit a country they don't want to? If it were a very lucrative tour then they would definitely be up to it. But if it isn't, they simply couldn't care less.

Yes, Pakistan fans would definitely feel it's not fair. But then again, what I said above is the hard, cold truth. Lobbying comes with power and influence, and those two things come with money.

 

[Savak]

It is. The very fact that they need to bring a city to stand still and concentrate the whole security machinery on the protection of 20 players is the writing on the wall that something is wrong with the place.

But that has to happen anyways given the events of 2009. It is what all western players will demand regardless of the security on the ground.

 

[Savak]

Let's face it, every cricket board cares about it's own interest, nothing else. They couldn't care less what happens to any other cricket board. They won't even care if cricket completely dies in any other country. Every cricket board is the same, there is no exception. So why would they care to force their players to visit a country they don't want to? If it were a very lucrative tour then they would definitely be up to it. But if it isn't, they simply couldn't care less.

Yes, Pakistan fans would definitely feel it's not fair. But then again, what I said above is the hard, cold truth.

That actually brings another question to my mind, why is a Pak home series vs the likes of Eng, Aus, SA, NZ unprofitable given that Pakistan has the second largest cricket loving population in Asia.

Something doesn't add up, yes we can be making $40 million per series like the BCCI does but we should be making decent money at the very least i.e. $10 million

What could be the reasons?

1) Poor unattractive Misbah ul Haq type uninspiring cricket being played by Pakistan in the last 10 years

2) Lack of quality players

I can guarantee you that if international cricket was played in Pakistan, stadiums would be jampacked.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Dear Savak,

There are few countries who do not seem motivated enough to tour Pakistan and the reasons seem to go beyond security situation as your Bhaijaan recalls during the mid 2000s when regular international cricket returned to Pakistan there was still no tour by Australia the best in the world by a huge margin at that point. I keep mentioning that India which is usually vilified toured Pakistan 3-4 times during that time, invited them to their country the same number of times and happily played them in UAE, Europe etc before 26/11 changed the landscape forever.

Legendary Ian Botham mentioned his unhappiness about touring Pakistan long before terrorism became a security issue. Surely the opinions of SENA cricketers weren't so different about India too back in the day but with modernization, security, glamour and a big party scene a tour of India means something else to players nowdays. Pakistan could do the same. You have make tour of Pakistan a real experience. Turning normal cities into fortresses might assure 100% security but it makes things mentally intolerable for a lot of these cricketers and you can't blame them. Remember playing/touring Pakistan isn't a liability. Bilateral relations as we discover now officially are a matter of mutual goodwill and that is it. Australia hasn't toured Pakistan in 20 years and they wouldn't for another 20 years until they feel right and happy about touring.

 

[Savak]

Of course it is. Just look at some independent view instead of living in in your own deluded world view.

The independent observers cannot be relied upon and they are basing their judgements on Pakistan from the viewpoint of the US State department. We had international Cricket played in Pakistan in the 80's when the USSR invaded Afghanistan and in the 90's when the MQM was crippling Karachi with terror and Pakistan was still going through religious and secretarian killings.

 

[Savak]

Dear Savak,

There are few countries who do not seem motivated enough to tour Pakistan and the reasons seem to go beyond security situation as your Bhaijaan recalls during the mid 2000s when regular international cricket returned to Pakistan there was still no tour by Australia the best in the world by a huge margin at that point. I keep mentioning that India which is usually vilified toured Pakistan 3-4 times during that time, invited them to their country the same number of times and happily played them in UAE, Europe etc before 26/11 changed the landscape forever.

Legendary Ian Botham mentioned his unhappiness about touring Pakistan long before terrorism became a security issue. Surely the opinions of SENA cricketers weren't so different about India too back in the day but with modernization, security, glamour and a big party scene a tour of India means something else to players nowdays. Pakistan could do the same. You have make tour of Pakistan a real experience. Turning normal cities into fortresses might assure 100% security but it makes things mentally intolerable for a lot of these cricketers and you can't blame them. Remember playing/touring Pakistan isn't a liability. Bilateral relations as we discover now officially are a matter of mutual goodwill and that is it. Australia hasn't toured Pakistan in 20 years and they wouldn't for another 20 years until they feel right and happy about touring.

Pakistan offers the same luxuries that Western players will enjoy in India and UAE i.e. drinks, parties underground, excellent malls and resteraunts, golfing, we have hotels which are 7 star and international standard, players can roam and go wherever they wish with fool proof security.

It will be unacceptable to see international players play in Afghanistan but insist Pakistan is not safe security wise. You cannot accept grotesque injustice forever, have to fight the status quo.

 

[Hitman]

That actually brings another question to my mind, why is a Pak home series vs the likes of Eng, Aus, SA, NZ unprofitable given that Pakistan has the second largest cricket loving population in Asia.

Something doesn't add up, yes we can be making $40 million per series like the BCCI does but we should be making decent money at the very least i.e. $10 million

What could be the reasons?

1) Poor unattractive Misbah ul Haq type uninspiring cricket being played by Pakistan in the last 10 years

2) Lack of quality players

I can guarantee you that if international cricket was played in Pakistan, stadiums would be jampacked.

Extremely good question. And that's the reason why I asked a certain question in another thread. Big money started flowing into cricket since the 90s, and until then both the BCCI and the PCB were pretty much is same financial conditions. By 2001, BCCI was the heavyweight champion of the cricketing world (financially), while PCB kept struggling. Why is that? Teams kept touring Pakistan till around 2006-07, bar Australia. And Pakistan has the second largest number of fans in the cricket world.

Keeping that in mind why has PCB always struggled in terms of it's finances? The couple of points you made about the current trend of boring and unattractive cricket, come on, Pak fans would definitely watch their team play irrespective of how unattractive it is. India used to be a dud team in the 90's, and yet the Indian market remained humongous. And even if we don't speak about the current Pak players, the ones who played in the 90's played excellent and entertaining cricket. Why exactly couldn't the PCB utilize any of that?

As an Indian fan, I can point out towards only one single reason - PCB's incompetence historically.

 

[CricVet]

Perception counts more than cognitive reality is an ugly truth. I am sorry to say but our society wreaks the perception of extremism. This thread would need to be in time pass.

We all know how thick and gullible uneducated masses are in Pak being driven by the idiots like Khadim Rizvi kinds. We portrait extremism even if majority does not practice it in Urban areas. How would you expect Western natives to think positively about Pakistan when they see us locking down the cities based on some trivial issues. No team from the west will visit Pak any time soon until we bring change thru some proper law and order.

 

[DeadBall]

Pakistan offers the same luxuries that Western players will enjoy in India and UAE i.e. drinks, parties underground, excellent malls and resteraunts, golfing, we have hotels which are 7 star and international standard, players can roam and go wherever they wish with fool proof security.

Now that's what you call an oxymoron.

 

[Savak]

Extremely good question. And that's the reason why I asked a certain question in another thread. Big money started flowing into cricket since the 90s, and until then both the BCCI and the PCB were pretty much is same financial conditions. By 2001, BCCI was the heavyweight champion of the cricketing world (financially), while PCB kept struggling. Why is that? Teams kept touring Pakistan till around 2006-07, bar Australia. And Pakistan has the second largest number of fans in the cricket world.

Keeping that in mind why has PCB always struggled in terms of it's finances? The couple of points you made about the current trend of boring and unattractive cricket, come on, Pak fans would definitely watch their team play irrespective of how unattractive it is. India used to be a dud team in the 90's, and yet the Indian market remained humongous. And even if we don't speak about the current Pak players, the ones who played in the 90's played excellent and entertaining cricket. Why exactly couldn't the PCB utilize any of that?

As an Indian fan, I can point out towards only one single reason - PCB's incompetence historically.

The logical answer to me is the fact that the Indian economy boomed big time from 2000 onwards while the Pakistani economy also did very well under Musharraf but it has been in the gutters since 2008 ever since the two biggest Loot Maar parties in our countries history took office and took Pakistan's foreign debts from $30 billion to $100 billion in 10 years and invested in low return wasteful projects. The absence of international cricket in Pakistan for the last 10 years and having to play all their games in the UAE and having to spend millions has hit the PCB coffers.

 

[Savak]

Perception counts more than cognitive reality is an ugly truth. I am sorry to say but our society wreaks the perception of extremism. This thread would need to be in time pass.

We all know how thick and gullible uneducated masses are in Pak being driven by the idiots like Khadim Rizvi kinds. We portrait extremism even if majority does not practice it in Urban areas. How would you expect Western natives to think positively about Pakistan when they see us locking down the cities based on some trivial issues. No team from the west will visit Pak any time soon until we bring change thru some proper law and order.

Their expectations that Pakistan should turn into Dubai are unrealistic and getting rid of religious extremism looks impossible given how inflamed our masses get over the blasphemy law. The PTI govt is the only hope for our country and even now it appears they cannot easily fix 30-40 year of political mis rule, loot and plunder in a few years

 

[Hitman]

I really feel sorry for Pak fans. They are just as much crazy for cricket as we Indian fans are. And they have been suffering for more than a decade for no fault of theirs. The only ones to be blamed are the ones who couldn't prevent the attack on the SL team. At the end of the day, the only ones who have been suffering are the players and the fans.

 

[iPakistani]

What really surprised me over the past couple days is in a football match between two of Argentinas top teams River Plate and Boca Juniors the team bus was attacked before the match.

Fans threw tear gas, pepper spray, rocks and what not inside the team bus which caused players to faint due to the pepper spray and also shards of glass going into some players eyes.



Fans of the other team are intentionally physically assaulting the team bus of the team it's not any terrorists with an agenda. Fans were also attaching flares to kids to bring into the stadium. But the matches between these two teams will go on and no one will be banned from playing at their home stadium.

For a event that happened almost 10 years ago Pakistan has shown reform with the numerous matches it has hosted since then and there seems to be no problem.

 

[DeadBall]

What really surprised me over the past couple days is in a football match between two of Argentinas top teams River Plate and Boca Juniors the team bus was attacked before the match.

Fans threw tear gas, pepper spray, rocks and what not inside the team bus which caused players to faint due to the pepper spray and also shards of glass going into some players eyes.

View attachment 85921

Fans of the other team are intentionally physically assaulting the team bus of the team it's not any terrorists with an agenda. Fans were also attaching flares to kids to bring into the stadium. But the matches between these two teams will go on and no one will be banned from playing at their home stadium.

For a event that happened almost 10 years ago Pakistan has shown reform with the numerous matches it has hosted since then and there seems to be no problem.

You're comparing local vs international. Two totally different things. Also these leagues and their supporters have a long history of such hooliganism.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Australia never toured Pakistan since 2002 and England since 2005. So they always had prejudice playing in Pak and its not only because of terror attack of 2009 that western teams stopped visiting.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

They want to ‘civilise’ us first. Once we are ‘civilised’ and ‘terror free’ they’ll tour Pakistan. I mean how can they be touring ‘hard’, ‘savage’ and ‘uncivilised’ country, right?

 

[Hitman]

Australia never toured Pakistan since 2002 and England since 2005. So they always had prejudice playing in Pak and its not only because of terror attack of 2009 that western teams stopped visiting.

I think the Aussies last toured Pakistan in 1998. And to be honest, things got really bad in the country since around 2005/06. New Zealand toured Pakistan around that time but left in the middle of the series after a bomb blast happened just outside their hotel.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I mean for centuries they viewed India as a country of savage snake charmers. It took Indians several decades for changing the stereotype of snake charmers to the stereotype of nerd, wiz kid, tech savvy, every day call centre guy with Indian accent, to start taking them seriously as civilised ppl. It will take us at least 5 decades to get to that level when we’ll be considered as those sweet tech savvy ppl with exotic accents instead of being considered as ‘potential terrorists’.

 

[topspin]

Dear Savak,

There are few countries who do not seem motivated enough to tour Pakistan and the reasons seem to go beyond security situation as your Bhaijaan recalls during the mid 2000s when regular international cricket returned to Pakistan there was still no tour by Australia the best in the world by a huge margin at that point. I keep mentioning that India which is usually vilified toured Pakistan 3-4 times during that time, invited them to their country the same number of times and happily played them in UAE, Europe etc before 26/11 changed the landscape forever.

Legendary Ian Botham mentioned his unhappiness about touring Pakistan long before terrorism became a security issue. Surely the opinions of SENA cricketers weren't so different about India too back in the day but with modernization, security, glamour and a big party scene a tour of India means something else to players nowdays. Pakistan could do the same. You have make tour of Pakistan a real experience. Turning normal cities into fortresses might assure 100% security but it makes things mentally intolerable for a lot of these cricketers and you can't blame them. Remember playing/touring Pakistan isn't a liability. Bilateral relations as we discover now officially are a matter of mutual goodwill and that is it. Australia hasn't toured Pakistan in 20 years and they wouldn't for another 20 years until they feel right and happy about touring.

I agree with this - Pakistan needs a party scene to attract business and tourism into their country.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan offers the same luxuries that Western players will enjoy in India and UAE i.e. drinks, parties underground, excellent malls and resteraunts, golfing, we have hotels which are 7 star and international standard, players can roam and go wherever they wish with fool proof security.

It will be unacceptable to see international players play in Afghanistan but insist Pakistan is not safe security wise. You cannot accept grotesque injustice forever, have to fight the status quo.

Dear Savak, your Bhaijaan didn't mean to say that Pakistan does not have world class hotels and malls. It is the experience that he talked about. If players cannot go to those malls and enjoy those parties without being surrounded by hundreds of gun men then they mean very little to them.

Alcohol and party scene is underground. Would players have access to it, wouldn't the underground cover be blown? There are many other things that matter to international athletes which i cannot mention here being a responsibly poster understanding their could be kids amongst us

 

[jadaja]

Yes it is completely justified, their lives are stake, if something goes wrong who is responsbile.We all saw how well PCB took responsibility in 2009.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It's not about alcohol and women, players have needs like exploring new places etc. Sri Lanka has its beach life and adventure sports, India has its sheer size and diversity to explore when it comes to Pakistan you just wanna lock a dozen white men in 2 cities turned into fortresses. Security is not everything.

How's Bangladesh like as an experience [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] for tourists?

 

[CricVet]

Their expectations that Pakistan should turn into Dubai are unrealistic and getting rid of religious extremism looks impossible given how inflamed our masses get over the blasphemy law. The PTI govt is the only hope for our country and even now it appears they cannot easily fix 30-40 year of political mis rule, loot and plunder in a few years

As you said that Imran can not change things overnight. Since I don't live in Pakistan and do not have a whole lot interest in politics but I am sure per logic, PTI itself will seize to exist if he alone tried to make changes radically for having some of the shared elements. This will be a long process. We will have to bring change from the root - proper schooling. I wish state be separated from religion which would be the final nail in the coffin, but I know it will not happen in my life time.

My solution to Pakistan ills is to take the action like Chinese at the tiananman square - squish the perpetrators so no one would ever dare to rise against state and freedom; which is just a wishful thinking I guess. Practically, we would need to wait and see what reforms Imran can bring and what follows up in the future Pakistan school system. If implemented property, we might see the results in 10-20 years time.

 

[Savak]

Dear Savak, your Bhaijaan didn't mean to say that Pakistan does not have world class hotels and malls. It is the experience that he talked about. If players cannot go to those malls and enjoy those parties without being surrounded by hundreds of gun men then they mean very little to them.

Alcohol and party scene is underground. Would players have access to it, wouldn't the underground cover be blown? There are many other things that matter to international athletes which i cannot mention here being a responsibly poster understanding their could be kids amongst us

Its not blown for many Pakistani youngsters and celebs who do it, why will it be a problem for these western players? I would feel very safe and secure with a hundred thousand gunmen guarding me, or would the western players not want this security? These international players have to fulfil their obligations and do their job, they cannot get the right to decide when they will do their job and not as per their own convenience forever.

 

[Savak]

I mean for centuries they viewed India as a country of savage snake charmers. It took Indians several decades for changing the stereotype of snake charmers to the stereotype of nerd, wiz kid, tech savvy, every day call centre guy with Indian accent, to start taking them seriously as civilised ppl. It will take us at least 5 decades to get to that level when we’ll be considered as those sweet tech savvy ppl with exotic accents instead of being considered as ‘potential terrorists’.

To be honest, we should follow the Dubai Model. Look where UAE was in the 80's and where it is now.

 

[Roadie]

It's not about alcohol and women, players have needs like exploring new places etc. Sri Lanka has its beach life and adventure sports, India has its sheer size and diversity to explore when it comes to Pakistan you just wanna lock a dozen white men in 2 cities turned into fortresses. Security is not everything.

How's Bangladesh like as an experience [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] for tourists?

If you have a look at Pakistan as a country, you will find lots of amazing places from lakes to glaciers, mosques to culture, mountains, food etc.

Surprisingly lots and lots of tourists are now coming in. Have a quick search on YouTube for some good videos especially by Eva Zu Beck and Mark Wiens.

Pakistan as a country has massive tourism potential.

 

[Savak]

It's not about alcohol and women, players have needs like exploring new places etc. Sri Lanka has its beach life and adventure sports, India has its sheer size and diversity to explore when it comes to Pakistan you just wanna lock a dozen white men in 2 cities turned into fortresses. Security is not everything.

How's Bangladesh like as an experience [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] for tourists?

Pakistan has plenty of tourism destinations. We have French Beach in Karachi.

 

[Roadie]

It has.

Swat, Skardu, K2 mountain, Nanga Parbat etc etc.
Let's also realise that the Pakistani government has been quite incompetent in promoting tourism as they are too busy filling their pockets.

 

[Bhaijaan]

If you have a look at Pakistan as a country, you will find lots of amazing places from lakes to glaciers, mosques to culture, mountains, food etc.

Surprisingly lots and lots of tourists are now coming in. Have a quick search on YouTube for some good videos especially by Eva Zu Beck and Mark Wiens.

Pakistan as a country has massive tourism potential.

My dear friend Roadie,

I ma very much aware of Pakistan's beautiful tourist destinations. My point being how accessible (in practical sense) are they to cricketers?

 

[Canford Cliffs]

To be honest, we should follow the Dubai Model. Look where UAE was in the 80's and where it is now.

Man sometimes the things you write is so amateurish. Dubai's enormous growth is due to oil money pumped into system. Where will a country like Pakistan get so much money to adopt a Dubai model? I mean its good to be optimistic but there is a difference between optimism and delusion. Pakistan in next 100 years cant be developed like Dubai.

Pakistan's and Imran Khan's immidiate task will be to eliminate all terror camps based in Pakistan and PoK. Post Bin Laden was found in Abbotabad, most western nations percieve Pakistan as a state that protects and harbours terrorists. I know its unfortunate but its a fact. A strong all out battle against terrorism will send a strong signal to western world that Pakistan is serious to combat terror. Then Pak can think of adopting Dubai model or what ever model they want.

 

[Roadie]

They should be fairly accessible. If the common layman can access all the touristic areas, why can Cricketers not? Let's not forget, there are lots of other sports which foreigners attend including Boxing, Squash, hockey etc.

The media portrayal of Pakistan is totally different to the one in real life unfortunately.

Also realistically we need to understand there are always going to be some places which are going to be out of bounds.

 

[Roadie]

We also need to understand that Pakistan has suffered a lot of terrorist attacks itself, without going into Politics, it's a complicated region.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

To be honest, we should follow the Dubai Model. Look where UAE was in the 80's and where it is now.

That’s a lot of petrodollars and a lot less mullahpoly (maulvi monopoly).

 

[Savak]

Man sometimes the things you write is so amateurish. Dubai's enormous growth is due to oil money pumped into system. Where will a country like Pakistan get so much money to adopt a Dubai model? I mean its good to be optimistic but there is a difference between optimism and delusion. Pakistan in next 100 years cant be developed like Dubai.

Pakistan's and Imran Khan's immidiate task will be to eliminate all terror camps based in Pakistan and PoK. Post Bin Laden was found in Abbotabad, most western nations percieve Pakistan as a state that protects and harbours terrorists. I know its unfortunate but its a fact. A strong all out battle against terrorism will send a strong signal to western world that Pakistan is serious to combat terror. Then Pak can think of adopting Dubai model or what ever model they want.

I think Pakistan's economic revival can be kickstarted by trying to eliminate as much corruption in the system as possible, providing good governance for starters and adopting the right economic policies.

 

[ILcricket]

Do you have a lot of non-Chinese tourists all year ?

 

[CricVet]

To be honest, we should follow the Dubai Model. Look where UAE was in the 80's and where it is now.

Of course as it is mentioned, Dubai, supported by the Abu Dhabi finance, is a completely different model.

Dubai is a small island while Pakistan is far bigger country with couple of hostile neighbors adding fuel to the fire. Dubai never reached the lawlessness we have been facing for a long time. List is too long.

We are a unique country of our own challenge. Our biggest enemy is illiteracy which has been purposely kept this low so feudal and their stooges would have their perfect slaves.

 

[DeadBall]

Man sometimes the things you write is so amateurish. Dubai's enormous growth is due to oil money pumped into system. Where will a country like Pakistan get so much money to adopt a Dubai model? I mean its good to be optimistic but there is a difference between optimism and delusion. Pakistan in next 100 years cant be developed like Dubai.

It's not just that ..

Dubai is a small monarchy with a very low local population (about 10-15%) and the rest are expats which makes it very easy to control. Locals are kept happy by given extra incentives income, luxuries etc for almost nothing whereas even a word of dissent from expats would have them immediately deported if not worse.

It is very easy to control a population of 6-8 million which mostly compromises of foreigners who have just come there to earn money and will be immediately quashed if they show any sign of opposition in contrast to controlling a country of 200 odd million locals.

Lets see this Khadim Rizvi types say one word in Dubai and they will forget their nanis as the saying goes, nvm blasphemy, Khatam e Nabuat and what not.

Majority of the population is educated and even though they may have their biases, they keep it to themselves and everyone socializes or at least tolerates each other due to the consequences.

This will take at least decades if not a lot more to achieve in Pakistan.

 

[Roadie]

It's not just that ..

Dubai is a small monarchy with a very low local population (about 10-15%) and the rest are expats which makes it very easy to control. Locals are kept happy by given extra incentives income, luxuries etc for almost nothing whereas even a word of dissent from expats would have them immediately deported if not worse.

It is very easy to control a population of 6-8 million which mostly compromises of foreigners who have just come there to earn money and will be immediately quashed if they show any sign of opposition in contrast to controlling a country of 200 odd million locals.

Lets see this Khadim Rizvi types say one word in Dubai and they will forget their nanis as the saying goes, nvm blasphemy, Khatam e Nabuat and what not.

Majority of the population is educated and even though they may have their biases, they keep it to themselves and everyone socializes or at least tolerates each other due to the consequences.

This will take at least decades if not a lot more to achieve in Pakistan.

Agreed. Khadim Rizvi what a joke.

 

[fitCricFan]

Even before PCB contemplates inviting foreign boards to play in Pakistan, they need to demonstrate that its safe to play by hosting all PSL matches in the country. If that can't be done, everything else is a moot point.

Holding the PSL semi-finals/finals alone, similar to the ones last year, doesn't count as those matches had unprecedented security. That is neither financially viable nor practical and I am positive that none of the players would enjoy playing the game under that sort of security.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't know the full name of this journalist, probs Alexander Daniels, from Seattle, USA, visited Pakistan(Islamabad and Lahore) and made a very good vlog in the cities openly declaring how beautiful the cities are and not shown by the media in the West. He also stated that if rightly promoted, the Northern areas of Pakistan can easily become a massive massive tourist attraction with its breath taking beauty.
He was also very well informed about the region and said that Pakistan atm is just behind a tourist boom that is expected to happen in near future with the areas getting independent explorers.

Saying that, I know the conditions have improved massively since the grim days of 2006-10 when there was so much uncertainty and outdoor places were not very safe. Even parents were afraid to let their children be out in public places back then, plus blasts and suicide bombings were happening every now and then. In addition to that, there was some political instability in Musharraf's last days as there were emergencies and curfews put in some cities. Plus the Lal Masjid incident got major attention.

Right now, atleast the big cities like Islamabad, Lahore, Faisalabad, Multan etc seem to be relatively safe with less amounts of incidents happening. I can't say about Karachi and majority of Sindh as I have never been there plus I don't know how situation is there, but I do know things have improved since outcasting of MQM and ANP there.

That brings the other two provinces, KPK and Balochistan. Balochistan, lets face it, has historically been the most neglected province of Pakistan with its least population in contrast to being the largest area by size. Balochistan shares border with Afghanistan and Iran, and nefarious things have been happening there due to both it's locality and government negligence and feudal areas. But I don't live there to make proper situation there.
KPK has the area that shares the most border with Afghanistan, and with it being the main area of TTP, things should be grim there. Right? Not that much. I have some friends there who say things have been getting better slowly, but the region faces problems due to it's locality and the nature of the border being very difficult to wall off as it's all mountains. They say in KPK, it's usually some areas and regions where things are unstable, but there are places that are very safe and in good health. And the majority of Northern Areas are very quiet and peaceful.

But saying that, I still don't think Pakistan atm is safe enough to host international matches regularly. There still are security concerns and we can't really be sure of having incident free matches unless the nearby areas are sealed. As per my knowledge, it only happens in Pakistan where areas have to be sealed off in order to organize matches. With Pakistan still having the awful terrorists in hiding, big occasions are still likely to be targeted rather than some unpopulated areas because that's what these a**h***s terrorists want, ie destabilize the country. Otherwise why would people blow themselves up and kill random people of their own country. That's plain terrorism.

Stated plainly, the problems caused due to sealing of the areas disturbs the local life there and their daily routine. People find it difficult to go to hospitals, offices etc when the area is sealed off. If it happens a few times a year, it can be tolerable, but for that to happen so often would be a big nuisance to the people. Till then, we have to deal every international match like a festival, and cherish what we have.

Hopefully once, terrorists are booted out or killed and the dharnas and hartaals are no more a common norm, I would vouch for consistent international cricket in Pakistan. ATM, we can't hope for full 4-5 tours a year as they simply aren't sustainable atm but hopefully in future they will be.

 

[prisha]

I have one question why is PSL a league tournament with mercenary foreign players is not played in entirety in Pakistan. These few foreign players should be convinced very easily to play in Pakistan. A word of mouth from these foreigners in thier home countries might change the perception of players in few years. Instead of finding faults with foreign boards for thier lack of sympathy towards Pakistan why is not Pakistani fans diaspora demanding PSL to conduct psl4 in Pakistan. If u can’t convince your own leagues to play in Pakistan I assure no board and no players will agree to tour Pakistan in my honest opinion.

 

[Savak]

I have one question why is PSL a league tournament with mercenary foreign players is not played in entirety in Pakistan. These few foreign players should be convinced very easily to play in Pakistan. A word of mouth from these foreigners in thier home countries might change the perception of players in few years. Instead of finding faults with foreign boards for thier lack of sympathy towards Pakistan why is not Pakistani fans diaspora demanding PSL to conduct psl4 in Pakistan. If u can’t convince your own leagues to play in Pakistan I assure no board and no players will agree to tour Pakistan in my honest opinion.

The PCB should take a chance by having the PSL in Pakistan with the foreign players willing to play in Pakistan by now. I believe that is what they are doing by moving the PSL to Pakistan in phases.

 

[Saj]

Money talks and player walks.

Give them enough money and they will come.

However I still believe that those players who clearly state that they will not go to Pakistan for the PSL should not be picked.

 

[Savak]

Money talks and player walks.

Give them enough money and they will come.

However I still believe that those players who clearly state that they will not go to Pakistan for the PSL should not be picked.

Don't think that is a sustainable model. In fact i used to read that there are some players who have said they will refuse to go to Pakistan even if offered $ millions.

I believe the PCB should focus strictly on those players from the PSL willing to come to Pakistan.

 

[Saj]

Don't think that is a sustainable model. In fact i used to read that there are some players who have said they will refuse to go to Pakistan even if offered $ millions.

I believe the PCB should focus strictly on those players from the PSL willing to come to Pakistan.

And that is what puzzles me that the likes of Shane Watson keep getting picked.

 

[Napa]

It's not just that ..

Dubai is a small monarchy with a very low local population (about 10-15%) and the rest are expats which makes it very easy to control. Locals are kept happy by given extra incentives income, luxuries etc for almost nothing whereas even a word of dissent from expats would have them immediately deported if not worse.

It is very easy to control a population of 6-8 million which mostly compromises of foreigners who have just come there to earn money and will be immediately quashed if they show any sign of opposition in contrast to controlling a country of 200 odd million locals.

Lets see this Khadim Rizvi types say one word in Dubai and <b>they will forget their nanis as the saying goes</b>, nvm blasphemy, Khatam e Nabuat and what not.

Majority of the population is educated and even though they may have their biases, they keep it to themselves and everyone socializes or at least tolerates each other due to the consequences.

This will take at least decades if not a lot more to achieve in Pakistan.

Agree with what you say, but isn't the saying "nani yaad dila deygi"? That is rather than forget, will be reminded of nani

 

[Savak]

And that is what puzzles me that the likes of Shane Watson keep getting picked.

The problem is that some of these players are not very honest or upfront about their true intentions. KP and Watson kept promising Nadeem Omar that they will make the call when the team qualifies and they will decide positively. Then at the end they cited family pressure and concerns behind their last minute withdrawals. Some people criticized Nadeem Omar for being an old fashioned individual who just blindly accepted the players word.

The the franchise blamed the PCB for failing to convince the players whereas the PCB countered that it was the job of the franchises to pick players willing to come to Pakistan and for them to convince them to come to Pakistan.

I think the Franchises should look into implementing reward/penalty based contracts where players who decide to come to Pakistan get paid a bit more than usual but anyone who pulls off the excuse at the last minute my family really doesn't want me to go, should be fined and penalized a certain amount from his contract.

Only way to keep the foreign players from exploiting the PSL

 

[DeadBall]

Agree with what you say, but isn't the saying "nani yaad dila deygi"? That is rather than forget, will be reminded of nani

Yeah, but I think the gist of the saying is that you'll forget everything else and/or come to your senses.

 

[Kroll]

It's not justified but sadly, the events from the past will give the Anglophones an excuse to stay away for now.

 

[Saj]

The problem is that some of these players are not very honest or upfront about their true intentions. KP and Watson kept promising Nadeem Omar that they will make the call when the team qualifies and they will decide positively.

Number of PSL tournaments = 3
Number of PSL matches Watson has played in Pakistan = 0

There is no reason for QG to keep picking him and him letting them down in the latter stages of the tournament.

 

[Savak]

Number of PSL tournaments = 3
Number of PSL matches Watson has played in Pakistan = 0

There is no reason for QG to keep picking him and him letting them down in the latter stages of the tournament.

The question is can the PSL expand and increase in value without the elite players like ABD, Steve Smith, Watson e.t.c?

 

[Sarwar89]

Unfortunately even when England, Australia, New zealand and South Africa were Touring Pakistan for Test Series through out 1990’s all the way to 2007, stadiums were only 10-20% full.

Does anyone even remember the day when Mark Taylor hit 334* in Peshawar, how many spectators were in stadium.

Test Cricket was not properly promoted in Pakistan post Imran-Miandad era.

White Nations prefer Test over limited overs cricket, security issues, lack of Test cricket interest in Pakistan along with no out of Hotel policy after matches ( for foreign teams) is a big put off for them.

I think Test Cricket will return and White Nations will tour Pakistan after 2030. By that time, entire generation will be changed. In any case legal international Test cricket did not happen in Aparthied South Africa from 1970-1992. But they survived. In case of Pakistan it is only 10 years so far.

 

[Kroll]

Although I can see both viewpoints, the problem of not picking foreign players who don't want to play in Pakistan will dilute the overall appeal and quality of the tournament. It's all very well saying so be it but PSL at the end of the day is about entertainment and fans will want to see the big names. It's a delicate balancing act, one which the pcb needs to tread with care.

 

[Savak]

Unfortunately even when England, Australia, New zealand and South Africa were Touring Pakistan for Test Series through out 1990’s all the way to 2007, stadiums were only 10-20% full.

Does anyone even remember the day when Mark Taylor hit 334* in Peshawar, how many spectators were in stadium.

Test Cricket was not properly promoted in Pakistan post Imran-Miandad era.

White Nations prefer Test over limited overs cricket, security issues, lack of Test cricket interest in Pakistan along with no out of Hotel policy after matches ( for foreign teams) is a big put off for them.

I think Test Cricket will return and White Nations will tour Pakistan after 2030. By that time, entire generation will be changed. In any case legal international Test cricket did not happen in Aparthied South Africa from 1970-1992. But they survived. In case of Pakistan it is only 10 years so far.

Cricket in the 70's to 1992 was different. Cricket is a lot more expensive game now.

 

[Savak]

Although I can see both viewpoints, the problem of not picking foreign players who don't want to play in Pakistan will dilute the overall appeal and quality of the tournament. It's all very well saying so be it but PSL at the end of the day is about entertainment and fans will want to see the big names. It's a delicate balancing act, one which the pcb needs to tread with care.

Pakistani's will turn up in huge no's for PSL games in Pakistan regardless of the foreign players playing in those games.

 

[ahsan17]

The boards using security to justify not touring Pakistan are still stuck in 2009-2013. Pakistan 2014 forward, especially in 2017 and 2018 has become significantly safer - as safe as when teams were regularly touring Pakistan back in the 2000s. Yes there are occasional terrorist attacks, but they are now few and far in between. If someone mentions the attacks 2 days ago, please study statistics and get back to me.

UK had terrorist attacks, Bangladesh had terrorist attacks, etc. And before anyone says those countries are not comparable to Pakistan - you would have been right 4-5 years ago. In 2018, no you are not correct.

It is. The very fact that they need to bring a city to stand still and concentrate the whole security machinery on the protection of 20 players is the writing on the wall that something is wrong with the place.

it is a catch 22. Teams will refuse to tour without that security.

Of course it is. Just look at some independent view instead of living in in your own deluded world view.

We're saying independent view is outdated and not consistent with realities of 2018.

 

[Savak]

The boards using security to justify not touring Pakistan are still stuck in 2009-2013. Pakistan 2014 forward, especially in 2017 and 2018 has become significantly safer - as safe as when teams were regularly touring Pakistan back in the 2000s. Yes there are occasional terrorist attacks, but they are now few and far in between. If someone mentions the attacks 2 days ago, please study statistics and get back to me.

UK had terrorist attacks, Bangladesh had terrorist attacks, etc. And before anyone says those countries are not comparable to Pakistan - you would have been right 4-5 years ago. In 2018, no you are not correct.




it is a catch 22. Teams will refuse to tour without that security.



We're saying independent view is outdated and not consistent with realities of 2018.

If left to Australia, England, New Zealand, South Africa e.t.c, they would never tour Pakistan till 2100 but even that is no guarantee lol

 

[Hasan123]

If they don't think Pakistan is safe you can't blame them and question there decision.

Also lol at chucking money as the answer. These guys have families , they won't go somewhere where there lives maybe at risk. Also playing the IPL and other T20 leagues is more than enough money than PCB can offer.

We want Pakistan to host international cricket but we have to be patient and we shouldn't blame other countries for not touring and not making effort to tour.

I think some of the associate teams would tour Pakistan. Why don't we try hosting games with them ? If we have a few series with no incident it could then attract the higher ranked teams.

 

[ahsan17]

Dear Savak,

There are few countries who do not seem motivated enough to tour Pakistan and the reasons seem to go beyond security situation as your Bhaijaan recalls during the mid 2000s when regular international cricket returned to Pakistan there was still no tour by Australia the best in the world by a huge margin at that point.

Australia did not have an FTP tour scheduled around the time most teams were touring. They did have an A tour in 2005, which they did complete.

Legendary Ian Botham mentioned his unhappiness about touring Pakistan long before terrorism became a security issue.

He still toured Pakistan in 2005, long after he made that comment.

Surely the opinions of SENA cricketers weren't so different about India too back in the day but with modernization, security, glamour and a big party scene a tour of India means something else to players nowdays. Pakistan could do the same. You have make tour of Pakistan a real experience. Turning normal cities into fortresses might assure 100% security but it makes things mentally intolerable for a lot of these cricketers and you can't blame them. Remember playing/touring Pakistan isn't a liability. Bilateral relations as we discover now officially are a matter of mutual goodwill and that is it. Australia hasn't toured Pakistan in 20 years and they wouldn't for another 20 years until they feel right and happy about touring.

You could argue same for Bangladesh. The reality is that developing Muslim countries will never be an attractive tour for western teams from the view point you mention. They will have to become more like UAE.

 

[Kroll]

Pakistani's will turn up in huge no's for PSL games in Pakistan regardless of the foreign players playing in those games.

This was in reference to UAE as this is where the majority of PSL will be played. I'm aware of the support in Pakistan having turned up myself to watch a match against a mediocre Sri Lanka 3rd team last year in Lahore.

 

[Saj]

The viewpoint suggested in the title isn't just Western, as many in Pakistan also don't believe that it's safe to hold international cricket in Pakistan.

 

[Savak]

The viewpoint suggested in the title isn't just Western, as many in Pakistan also don't believe that it's safe to hold international cricket in Pakistan.

Pakistanis aren't known to be very brave daring people in the face of risks. Just blindly accept and surrender in the face of foreign narrative.

 

[jadaja]

The players like Watson will do just fine without PSL.For them PSL or IPL is just a easy way to earn some cash. They will not risk their lives for it.PSL needs players like them more than they need PSL.

To all who those who think otherwise are delusional.

 

[Savak]

Btw to clarify, when talking about Dubai, I meant Pakistan should look to adopt a state modelled on the beautiful balance between the east and west just as shown in dxb

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Its a bit of a conundrum.

Nobody is going to tour without massive security cohorts, plans, back up plans, contingency plans etc. But the mere fact these are needed will naturally put off people. Why tour a place where 10.000 soldiers and police are needed just to get you to be ground?

The biggest stumbling block is the governmental side of things. No Foreign Office in the world has Pakistan as anywhere near safe. That takes decades to change.

I think too many people are falling into the folly of, just because there arent weekly bombs like in 2009, that everything is "safe". Its obviously improved but still safe is a totally different planet from where you are now. You just had a globally reported case of a woman given a death penalty for a completely ludicrous reason that ended up being thrown out in court anyway, and the reaction was for tens of thousands of people nationwide to call for her death anyway in reaction to this. Why would people, high profile ones at that, go to a place like that? Thats not my viewpoint fwiw, but its how I imagine cricket boards and players would look at things.

Pakistan is improving but its a country where protests spur up on a seemingly monthly basis that cripple infrastructure, cities and business and forgotten about by the next day. These happened before with cricket true but in light of the 2009 incident these issues take on a darker subtext.

I hope Ireland tour and I think there's a chance of it happening provided no more terrorist attacks occur between now and any tour, but people need to be realistic and look at things rationally.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

From the whole alcohol and non playing time of a tour, that would play some role but I think people are overstating it. Tours are arranged in emails and boardrooms, not by the players. If Indian cricket tours involved players spending every free moment at gunpoint listening to a tracklist of Bollywoods worst songs for days on end, you can be damn sure the tours would continue once the money kept flowing lol.

 

[JattMaula]

From the whole alcohol and non playing time of a tour, that would play some role but I think people are overstating it. Tours are arranged in emails and boardrooms, not by the players. If Indian cricket tours involved players spending every free moment at gunpoint listening to a tracklist of Bollywoods worst songs for days on end, you can be damn sure the tours would continue once the money kept flowing lol.

Have you ever tried listening such lists? You may change your opinion.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Have you ever tried listening such lists? You may change your opinion.

Oh I have, a couple, they're catchy tbf.

I explicitly said worst Bollywood songs though, not all Bollywood songs.

 

[JattMaula]

Oh I have, a couple, they're catchy tbf.

I explicitly said worst Bollywood songs though, not all Bollywood songs.

I also meant worst list Donald bhai.

 

[Misia]

Why doesn't Pakistan invite the minnow teams Afghanistan Scotland Ireland, etc

 

[giri26]

Well it will be difficult for Pakistan to get cricket back any sooner. It will take a few years for that to happen. For now, UAE or some other country seems to be the option.

 

[Bahnz]

The idea that SENA teams stay away from Pakistan partly because it is perceived as being a boring place to tour is rubbish. Teams tour Bangladesh all the time, and yeah some players have commented that it's dull at times, but fundamentally they're professionals and they know they're not there to drink and shop. The real problem is that in the 2000's teams kept on nearly getting blown up (the NZ in 2002 and the 2009 Sri Lanka bus attack - not to mention the bombing of hotels that have previously served as venues for visiting sides like the Islamabad Marriot).

This issue will be solved once the security situation is stable. Remember that teams used to be vary wary of touring Sri Lanka back in the early 90's (Australia and the Windies refused to tour there in the 1996 World Cup). But the political situation there has improved out of site, and players know they're not in danger, so they're happy to tour.

Things have definitely improved in Pakistan in the last 5 years, but there are still real issues with regards to kidnapping and terrorism, and not just in the east of the country. Yes you can try and address this with security, but that won't reassure a lot of players, especially given that the '09 Sri Lankan team already had a strong security assignment protecting them. Really, I think this is something that can only be sorted out by a fundamental stabilisation of politics within Pakistan. Who knows how long that will take.

 

[Bangladesh_Fan]

The cricket world is not going to forget 2009 in a hurry , if it was only because of war on terror then with time teams would have started touring but the fact an international cricket team got attacked with bullets and bombs like that will keep many teams from touring Pakistan for decades. They have lost that trust in security.

 

[Savak]

Actually the 2009 Sri Lankan security arrangements were very lax, over confident and far from presidential level

 

[Sarwar89]

The cricket world is not going to forget 2009 in a hurry , if it was only because of war on terror then with time teams would have started touring but the fact an international cricket team got attacked with bullets and bombs like that will keep many teams from touring Pakistan for decades. They have lost that trust in security.

Exactly but for some reasons PCB and many fans in the country think that 2009 incident shall be brushed aside under the carpet. For them may be but not for the rest of the world.

They need to ask question themselves, will they go and play in Kabul Afghanistan ? Will their families and Government allow it.

I doubt.

Pakistan will be very lucky if Cricket gets restored fully in the next 10 years. My prediction is it will take more time.

 

[Savak]

Exactly but for some reasons PCB and many fans in the country think that 2009 incident shall be brushed aside under the carpet. For them may be but not for the rest of the world.

They need to ask question themselves, will they go and play in Kabul Afghanistan ? Will their families and Government allow it.

I doubt.

Pakistan will be very lucky if Cricket gets restored fully in the next 10 years. My prediction is it will take more time.

Are you kidding me? I guarantee you that Pakistani players and the PCB will have no issues playing in Afghanistan.