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Is this India's best ever ODI bowling attack?

Unbiased-Fan

Unbiased-Fan

Local Club Captain
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I'm talking about bowling attack of,
Jasprit Bumrah -Mohammad Siraj- Mohammad Shami- Kuldeep Yadav - Hardik Pandya - Ravi Jadeja

They are some of India's all time greatest ODI bowlers, playing together at same the time and performing equally well at the same time. They are hunting in the pack.


Lets look at the stats of each bowler ;

Jasprit Bumrah
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
8483435233471436/1923.404.6130.462


Mohammad Siraj
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
363516271371606/2122.855.0527.121


Mohammad Shami
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
9695479444371805/5124.655.5526.6103


Kuldeep Yadav
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
9693490341561626/2525.655.0830.272

Ravindra Jadeja
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
192184951877442125/3636.524.8844.871

Hardik Pandya
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
868031992960844/2435.235.5538.010


I'm a stats geek watching cricket from past 20 years, but never saw such impressive stats of our bowlers.
Look at bowling averages of these bowlers.
Bumrah despite bowling in powerplays, with economy rate of 4.61 , is magical to me.
Shami's world cup record is even better than Starc.
Kuldeep is probably best ODI spinner at this moment.
Siraj is little bit out of touch but still a high quality bowler.
Hardik and Jadeja's averages may be higher, but their main role is allrounder.
Still Jadeja has the best economy rate in the tournament.
Hardik is a clever bowler too.


So, where do you rank this bowling attack?
Is this India's best ever?
Where does it rank if we talk about all ODI history? (i'm bit excited .. forgive me)
 
Don't jinx it man :) Let the world cup get over. Ofcourse they are class attack. Is there anyone arguing otherwise?
 
India’s current ODI bowling attack is indeed performing exceptionally well. Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammad Shami have been instrumental in this success. Kuldeep and Jadeja are keeping the spin department working well.
 
Yes, I think they had similar lineup in 2019 WC also minus Siraj. But this time they are more focused, bowling with plan, hitting the right areas and more importantly playing with 100% fitness.
 
Unbiased-Fan said:
I'm talking about bowling attack of,
Jasprit Bumrah -Mohammad Siraj- Mohammad Shami- Kuldeep Yadav - Hardik Pandya - Ravi Jadeja

They are some of India's all time greatest ODI bowlers, playing together at same the time and performing equally well at the same time. They are hunting in the pack.


Lets look at the stats of each bowler ;

Jasprit Bumrah
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
8483435233471436/1923.404.6130.462


Mohammad Siraj
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
363516271371606/2122.855.0527.121


Mohammad Shami
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
9695479444371805/5124.655.5526.6103


Kuldeep Yadav
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
9693490341561626/2525.655.0830.272

Ravindra Jadeja
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
192184951877442125/3636.524.8844.871

Hardik Pandya
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsDescendingBBIAveEconSR45
868031992960844/2435.235.5538.010


I'm a stats geek watching cricket from past 20 years, but never saw such impressive stats of our bowlers.
Look at bowling averages of these bowlers.
Bumrah despite bowling in powerplays, with economy rate of 4.61 , is magical to me.
Shami's world cup record is even better than Starc.
Kuldeep is probably best ODI spinner at this moment.
Siraj is little bit out of touch but still a high quality bowler.
Hardik and Jadeja's averages may be higher, but their main role is allrounder.
Still Jadeja has the best economy rate in the tournament.
Hardik is a clever bowler too.


So, where do you rank this bowling attack?
Is this India's best ever?
Where does it rank if we talk about all ODI history? (i'm bit excited .. forgive me)
Click to expand...
This is the best bowling attack I have seen India field since ive been watching them for 25 years. Don’t need to look at data for that.
Too often, bowling department for India goes soft in KOs. Let’s see if they can finish the job.
 
No it is their worst attack. Best attack would be in 90s.

Ofcourse it is their best attack. It is currently the best attack in the world.

You could argue that it's better and more complete than our very own Pakistani attack of 95-99.

Few attacks I rate higher include Aussie attack of 2003, West indies of anything between1975 to 1985

Aus attack of 2015 on par with this brutal attack.



I am talking about all condition based attack by the way.
 
Farabi said:
This is the best bowling attack I have seen India field since ive been watching them for 25 years. Don’t need to look at data for that.
Too often, bowling department for India goes soft in KOs. Let’s see if they can finish the job.
Click to expand...
Really? 2003 bowling in the final was off but till then they were absolutely class.

2011 bowling won them the WC in ko stages.

2015 bowling took them far into ko stages but the semi was on a patta. It was up to batsmen to perform.

2019 bowling again did the job. World class attack. Batsmen let them down.

Now we shall see in 2023 what unfolds.

Only in 2003 bowling let them down in reality. That too only in that one game. Their batsmen get overrated alot.
 
They are excellent and India's best ever. Nobody will deny that.

Question is can they win a World Cup knockout?

Shami played in 2015 WC semis alongside Yadav, Ashwin and Jadeja.

Bumrah played in 2019 WC alongside Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Pandya and Jadeja.
 
Siraj & Shami should be rotated based on form and fitness. 1 or 2 more pacers should be groomed who can be rotated and who have at least 80% of their quality (at the moment the bowlers in the bench are not even 50% effective than these). When we rested all our main bowlers we saw we lost to Bangladesh in Asia Cup!

Also Siraj should get some proper guidance & mental therapy regarding being consistent instead of trying too much... He should not get carried away when he bowls dream spells... Also he should improve his fielding... Even other bowlers require proper mentoring... Everyone cannot be naturally talented & gifted like Bumrah/Shami!

If Bumrah, Shami & Pandya are playing together, Siraj (and 1 more guy) can be in bench (in SC Conditions). Shami is getting old, that's why its important for Siraj & others to catchup soon & continue the Indian new found bowling legacy...

Bumrah + Shami + Pandya + Kuldeep + Jadeja are preferred in SC
Bumrah + Shami + Siraj + Pandya + Kuldeep/Jadeja can be selected for overseas.

These two combinations can be enriched further if we find a batsman who can bowl part-time spin... So idealy we should be grooming players like Tilak Varma instead of Iyer, Sky, etc. Also we should prefer left-hand batsmen. Tilak offers both of it...

If Iyer has to be in reckoning for Indian ODI team, besides handling short ball & being consistent, he should also learn some part-time bowling (I think he tried it sometime). IPL is the stage which should be used for all these experiments... He is anyhow playing for I think a low profile team like Delhi Capitals, so nothing harm in experimenting with them...

If there is a batsman who can offer some part-time spin, then India can go with both of those combinations that I mentioned above, and players like Thakur will not get into the team to provide fake-cushioning...
 
Ab Fan said:
They are excellent and India's best ever. Nobody will deny that.

Question is can they win a World Cup knockout?

Shami played in 2015 WC semis alongside Yadav, Ashwin and Jadeja.

Bumrah played in 2019 WC alongside Bhuvi, Kuldeep, Pandya and Jadeja.
Click to expand...
We won 2011 WC mainly because of middle-order batting prowess which was missing for India for quite a long time (almost its entire history! 2019 was a case which was the worst in its history i.e., middle order batting! We lost even 2003 WC because of this reason - yes the bowling failed & got tensed against a ATG batting unit on the finals!) 2011 bowling unit is not even 50% as good as what we have now!

We won 1983 WC mainly because of the alrounders who utilized the conditions to good effect.

In 2007 T20 WC we won because of a young hunger team who were rampaging to achieve something (just like the last Pant-led Australian Test Triumph)

Now in 2023 we have all these - middle-order batting which is resorted eventually (thankfully) at the final moment, there are alrounders as well (Jadeja, Pandya - Pandya must play in knockouts if we have any chance to win) + we have the GREATEST bowling unit which was non existant throughout its history!

And in most times we had a common strength factor called "opening / top order batting" and its existent even in 2023.

Now with all these plus points + playing at HOME, it will actually be a miracle if India miss the world cup this time!

Also we can see another common factor in all these cases is inspired & great leadership quality (Kapil Dev, Dhoni & Rohit - who won multiple IPLs - a smart leader and is due for an achievement in international cricket).

So only bad luck & extreme smartness by opponent who targets our slightest weakness (late middle order batting/tail, Siraj, Iyer/Sky... issues against left-arm seamer/left-arm spinner) only this can stop India from winning the cup (And only Australia & NZ are capable of exploiting these things)
 
160KPH said:
Not just India’s best but one of the best of all time. Winning a trophy would put them even higher, that’s what missing right now.
Click to expand...
Best of all time? 💀, bruh classic West Indies led by Joel harmer would murk this bowling line up.

Classic Australia also has a superior bowling line up.

Bumrah is good but he's comfortably behind wasim akram. Too bumrah's credit he is slightly superior to waqar younis, fans will hate on me, but waqar played in the one ball and ball tampering era. Those banana nonsense wiley coyote deliveries wouldn't be possible today.

But yh India currently is class in bowling but Prime atg bowling rips them apart limb from limb lol.
 
RamLakhan said:
We won 2011 WC mainly because of middle-order batting prowess which was missing for India for quite a long time (almost its entire history! 2019 was a case which was the worst in its history i.e., middle order batting! We lost even 2003 WC because of this reason - yes the bowling failed & got tensed against a ATG batting unit on the finals!) 2011 bowling unit is not even 50% as good as what we have now!

We won 1983 WC mainly because of the alrounders who utilized the conditions to good effect.

In 2007 T20 WC we won because of a young hunger team who were rampaging to achieve something (just like the last Pant-led Australian Test Triumph)

Now in 2023 we have all these - middle-order batting which is resorted eventually (thankfully) at the final moment, there are alrounders as well (Jadeja, Pandya - Pandya must play in knockouts if we have any chance to win) + we have the GREATEST bowling unit which was non existant throughout its history!

And in most times we had a common strength factor called "opening / top order batting" and its existent even in 2023.

Now with all these plus points + playing at HOME, it will actually be a miracle if India miss the world cup this time!

Also we can see another common factor in all these cases is inspired & great leadership quality (Kapil Dev, Dhoni & Rohit - who won multiple IPLs - a smart leader and is due for an achievement in international cricket).

So only bad luck & extreme smartness by opponent who targets our slightest weakness (late middle order batting/tail, Siraj, Iyer/Sky... issues against left-arm seamer/left-arm spinner) only this can stop India from winning the cup (And only Australia & NZ are capable of exploiting these things)
Click to expand...
Or maybe weak mentality will prevent India from winning

Winning nearly all bilateral series, constantly being number 1 in ranking BUT still no ICC title in 10 years shows that the players are mentally weak even if they have all the talent in the world

It just cannot be a coincidence that the greatest ODI batsman of all time and chase master lol scored SINGLE FIGURE runs in

2015 WC semi vs Australia
2017 CT final vs Pakistan
2019 WC semi vs New Zealand all while chasing
 
mominsaigol said:
Best of all time? 💀, bruh classic West Indies led by Joel harmer would murk this bowling line up.

Classic Australia also has a superior bowling line up.

Bumrah is good but he's comfortably behind wasim akram. Too bumrah's credit he is slightly superior to waqar younis, fans will hate on me, but waqar played in the one ball and ball tampering era. Those banana nonsense wiley coyote deliveries wouldn't be possible today.

But yh India currently is class in bowling but Prime atg bowling rips them apart limb from limb lol.
Click to expand...
I said one of the best of all time - definitely not the best of all time. I think they’re about in the Top 5-10 range all, particularly if you’re discussing in Indian conditions. To be seriously in the discussion for best of all time they’d probably have to win this WC and have a great 2025 Champion’s Trophy. The dominant West Indies bowlers, the Aussies who all of the cups, and also some configurations of the famous Pakistani bowling lineups are better.

My personal favorite is the Pakistani bowling lineup in the late 90s early 2000s when we had the following:

Wasim Akram
Waqar
Shoaib
Saqlain Mushtaq
Abdul Razzaq

If I remember, they only played about 20 matches together but that’s as close to perfect as it gets. Also I’ll have to disagree on that Waqar Younis point. For me, peak Waqar Younis might just be the most destructive bowler who ever lived. That strike rate is just unbelievable.
 
saqib.rai said:
Or maybe weak mentality will prevent India from winning

Winning nearly all bilateral series, constantly being number 1 in ranking BUT still no ICC title in 10 years shows that the players are mentally weak even if they have all the talent in the world

It just cannot be a coincidence that the greatest ODI batsman of all time and chase master lol scored SINGLE FIGURE runs in

2015 WC semi vs Australia
2017 CT final vs Pakistan
2019 WC semi vs New Zealand all while chasing
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s legitimately the biggest mark against them. Hard to put players, lineups, bowling units in the absolute highest tier if they don’t really win ICC tournaments considering we’re in the era of meaningless bilateral series. Not just lose in knockout rounds either, but also clearly massively underperform when it matters most.
 
160KPH said:
I said one of the best of all time - definitely not the best of all time. I think they’re about in the Top 5-10 range all, particularly if you’re discussing in Indian conditions. To be seriously in the discussion for best of all time they’d probably have to win this WC and have a great 2025 Champion’s Trophy. The dominant West Indies bowlers, the Aussies who all of the cups, and also some configurations of the famous Pakistani bowling lineups are better.

My personal favorite is the Pakistani bowling lineup in the late 90s early 2000s when we had the following:

Wasim Akram
Waqar
Shoaib
Saqlain Mushtaq
Abdul Razzaq

If I remember, they only played about 20 matches together but that’s as close to perfect as it gets. Also I’ll have to disagree on that Waqar Younis point. For me, peak Waqar Younis might just be the most destructive bowler who ever lived. That strike rate is just unbelievable.
Click to expand...
This Indian team will never be the best even if they win this world cup.

As for Pakistanz Peak Pakistan bowlers is > current India.

Also that's not true. Imran Khan himself is superior to bumrah and waqar.

People don't understand that waqar younis bowled in the one ball and ball tampering era. Bunrah is that era would be unplayable.

Just look at wasim akram. You can clearly see when he's bowling with a ball tampered ball and when he isn't.

When wasim isn't, wasim is really good, consistently bowling unplayable lengths. Think Amir and shaheen's unplayable inswing but consistently and on every ball, and think Dale Steyn's outswing spell to rohit sharma but consistently and every game. So still a goat and superior to bumrah.

But wasim with a ball tampered ball, bowled extremely short and wide away from the batsmen but somehow that ball swung all the way into stumps at 150kph speeds 💀💀💀.

Waqar prime is destructive because of these conditons. Waqar is a better death bowler but again that's due to the reverse swing that the one ball provided.

Imran Khan > Waqar normally and if you factor non ball tampering.

It's the same with Shane Warne, Warne didn't ball tamper but his banana spins aren't possible in odi's today when the ball is barely 20 overs old.
 
mominsaigol said:
This Indian team will never be the best even if they win this world cup.

As for Pakistanz Peak Pakistan bowlers is > current India.

Also that's not true. Imran Khan himself is superior to bumrah and waqar.

People don't understand that waqar younis bowled in the one ball and ball tampering era. Bunrah is that era would be unplayable.

Just look at wasim akram. You can clearly see when he's bowling with a ball tampered ball and when he isn't.

When wasim isn't, wasim is really good, consistently bowling unplayable lengths. Think Amir and shaheen's unplayable inswing but consistently and on every ball, and think Dale Steyn's outswing spell to rohit sharma but consistently and every game. So still a goat and superior to bumrah.

But wasim with a ball tampered ball, bowled extremely short and wide away from the batsmen but somehow that ball swung all the way into stumps at 150kph speeds 💀💀💀.

Waqar prime is destructive because of these conditons. Waqar is a better death bowler but again that's due to the reverse swing that the one ball provided.

Imran Khan > Waqar normally and if you factor non ball tampering.

It's the same with Shane Warne, Warne didn't ball tamper but his banana spins aren't possible in odi's today when the ball is barely 20 overs old.
Click to expand...
If you’re knocking Waqar down for “ball tampering” though you have to do the same for Imran Khan. Imran Khan bowled at a time when you could get away with even more. In so far as Wasim and Waqar knew anything about ball tampering, it was taught to them by Imran Khan - even they have said they were taught on how to take care of the ball to make it reverse by Imran Khan. Also the thing is, back then, everyone played by the same rules so why not just compare Waqar to his peers who followed the same rules? His record those first few years was still far ahead of everyone else at the time.

Also, Waqar was also incredibly skilled. That’s why even in the early 2000s after Waqar had lost some of his pace, he still had a better strike rate than Wasim. Look at his 7/36 against England in 2001 after he had already been hit by many injuries and was way way past his prime. It’s also just for me, I rate peaks so much when picking a favorite. The first 5 years of Waqar Younis - and also the first few years of Imran Khan by the way - the strike rates of both of them were just absurd. Now, on the other hand, Wasim to me is just magical. He did things I don’t think any other bowler could possibly do. Maybe Wasim is the Messi equivalent to Waqar’s Ronaldo. Thankfully both of them played for Pakistan 😂 I think a lot of it is personal preference, Imran Khan, Waqar, and Wasim are all legends.
 
saqib.rai said:
Or maybe weak mentality will prevent India from winning

Winning nearly all bilateral series, constantly being number 1 in ranking BUT still no ICC title in 10 years shows that the players are mentally weak even if they have all the talent in the world

It just cannot be a coincidence that the greatest ODI batsman of all time and chase master lol scored SINGLE FIGURE runs in

2015 WC semi vs Australia
2017 CT final vs Pakistan
2019 WC semi vs New Zealand all while chasing
Click to expand...
We were not # 1 going into any of those tournaments.
 
Yes, this is India’s best and most complete bowling attack. But India is generally strong at home. This unit has to perform overseas for them to be taken serious.
 
The combination of WC batting and WC bowling is just too dangerous. The only thing which can stop India from winning this WC is just having a complete off day in the knockouts, otherwise clear clear favourites.

And what also helps India is the massive home crowd advantage. You just see a sea of blue in the crowd, you hardly see any other fans. I haven't seen something like this anywhere else. Of course home teams will have clear majority of the crowd but this is just next level. (ab ajao indian keyboard army defend karne) Must be tough for opponents.
 
Farabi said:
This is the best bowling attack I have seen India field since ive been watching them for 25 years. Don’t need to look at data for that.
Too often, bowling department for India goes soft in KOs. Let’s see if they can finish the job.
Click to expand...
Actually it's bowling dept that save us in icc tournament.. they over perform most of the times in those tournaments.. when they've bad day the batting dept couldn't step up..
 
mominsaigol said:
Best of all time? 💀, bruh classic West Indies led by Joel harmer would murk this bowling line up.

Classic Australia also has a superior bowling line up.

Bumrah is good but he's comfortably behind wasim akram. Too bumrah's credit he is slightly superior to waqar younis, fans will hate on me, but waqar played in the one ball and ball tampering era. Those banana nonsense wiley coyote deliveries wouldn't be possible today.

But yh India currently is class in bowling but Prime atg bowling rips them apart limb from limb lol.
Click to expand...
100%.

2003 aus attack had Lee warne mcg bichel
They even bat deep lol. Till 9.

Wasim is > bumrah but bunrah is the closest to wasim from Asia by far. The difference is narrowing. If he helps india win the WC and another world title like t20 wc or wtc then he will be in the convo for sure.
 
In 80s and 90s, most batsmen were cautious and batting lineups practically ended when you were 5 down because the bowlers were complete bunnies with the bat.

A number 8/9 from that era is not even close to the number 11s of today. Apart from 2-3, almost every number 11 would qualify as a bowling all-rounder 20-30 years ago.

In one addition, one new ball that would start reversing after 25 overs on dry surfaces and bowling sides would get away with a lot of tampering and preparation.

In those conditions and circumstances, Bumrah would be average 17-18 with the ball.

ODI bowling is a lot more difficult than it was back then. Test bowling is easier though because modern batsmen are defensively very circumspect especially against spin.
 
Mamoon said:
So many GOATs for India post 2015.

GOAT Asian Test team = India
GOAT Asian Test captain = Kohli
GOAT ODI top 3 = India (Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli)
GOAT Asian Test all-rounder = Ashwin
GOAT ODI batsman = Kohli
GOAT ODI World Cup batsman = Rohit
GOAT T20 World Cup batsman = Kohli

The last 8 years have been incredible for India and the future looks very bright too.
Click to expand...
Well done to India.
 
It may be argued this India best LO attack, but if compared world's best then there is a long gap

World's best LO attack post 90s

McGrath Warne Gillespie Lee
Steyn Morkel Philander Tahir
Malinga Herath Mendis Kulasekara
Starc Cummins Hazlewood Zampa
Johnson Starc Hazlewood Falukner
McGrath Lee Bickel Hogg
Mcgrath Tait Bracken Hogg

Looking at this clearly evident Starc and Hazlewood are the two stalwarts still playing so Australian attack is definitely world's best
 
Kianig89 said:
It may be argued this India best LO attack, but if compared world's best then there is a long gap

World's best LO attack post 90s

McGrath Warne Gillespie Lee
Steyn Morkel Philander Tahir
Malinga Herath Mendis Kulasekara
Starc Cummins Hazlewood Zampa
Johnson Starc Hazlewood Falukner
McGrath Lee Bickel Hogg
Mcgrath Tait Bracken Hogg

Looking at this clearly evident Starc and Hazlewood are the two stalwarts still playing so Australian attack is definitely world's best
Click to expand...
1 St agreed.
Steyn morsel tahir in odi? No way. This attack looks better than them
Easily better than Sri lanka's attack. Those Lankans are not even close to the level of these Indian ones.
Aussie ones are better barring the current one ans also the one which had Johnson in it.

Would say India's attack pips those 2 but the ones with McGrath and Warne/hogg are better.

Pre 90s West indies of 1976- 1985 also better.

Would say about 5 or 6 attacks are better.
 
for pacers there's no question, it's the best ever
for spinners it's debatable, you had kumble/bhaji in the past
 
Attack is decent but nothing special except Bumrah
Siraj is medicore
Kuldeep and jadeja will be hammered once they step outside sub continent
Shami is poor at the death
 
Conditions in India help all type of bowlers. For any other country Ashwin will.be in the starting XI. Heck even chahal
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I think Aquib was the third seamer with saqi and mushy as 4th and 5th during mid 90s.
Click to expand...
Like how some fans are like indian pitches are turners lol. But then that would mean pacers wouldn't be effective as it isn't exactly conducive to fast bowling.

Then they will say they don't perform away from home. But even in 2019 the bowling was class. England is outside india. So they performed there. I even in 2015 with a much weaker lineup they performed well. Now it's breathing fire yet again given how potent indian attack is.

So what is the excuse lol? If the batting let's them down its not the bowlers fault. This indian attack is easily the best ever from Asia that I have seen.

Wasim as an individual is above everyone but as a unit this is the best ever from Asia. Bumrah is getting close to wasim but he has a bit to go. Needs to win a wc and say a champions trophy outside india.

But it will be hard to get close to wasim. 300 plus odis. I can see bumrah maybe get 150 at best due to t20.

Also in 90s and earlier there was no 2 new ball rule. Imagine bumrah shami reverse swinging an old ball.
 
Bumrah
Siraj
Shami are easily amongst top 4 bowlers we ever had, Kapil dev being the 4th one.

So obviously this is our best ever attack.

Kuldeep is also easily our best ever odi spinner
 
kron said:
No it is their worst attack. Best attack would be in 90s.

Ofcourse it is their best attack. It is currently the best attack in the world.

You could argue that it's better and more complete than our very own Pakistani attack of 95-99.

Few attacks I rate higher include Aussie attack of 2003, West indies of anything between1975 to 1985

Aus attack of 2015 on par with this brutal attack.



I am talking about all condition based attack by the way.
Click to expand...
West Indies attack wasnt the best if not they would had won in India as well.(ODI)

Agree on Aus they would had won anywhere as they had Warne.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Bumrah
Siraj
Shami are easily amongst top 4 bowlers we ever had, Kapil dev being the 4th one.

So obviously this is our best ever attack.

Kuldeep is also easily our best ever odi spinner
Click to expand...
Kapil Dev is below Siraj?Recency bias?
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Bumrah
Siraj
Shami are easily amongst top 4 bowlers we ever had, Kapil dev being the 4th one.

So obviously this is our best ever attack.

Kuldeep is also easily our best ever odi spinner
Click to expand...

1. Bumrah
2. Shami
3. Kapil
4. Zak
5. Srinath

That's our top 5.

Siraj is nowhere near. Let him pick 100+ ODI wickets, as of now he has made a career thanks to Windies and SL bashing in meaningless bilaterals.
 
We had a thread/discussion on best pace attacks that played together a couple of years ago.

At that time, stats were pretty eye-opening insofar the Indian test attack of Ishant, Shami and Bumrah had numbers pretty much comparable to the AUS attack of 2000s and WI attack of 80s.

I ran the numbers on statsguru since 2015 (since Ishant stopped being pathetic, basically), and India pace attack is next only to South Africa during this period, averaging 25 to Saffer's 23. Pakistan averages 30 in this period, AUS averages 27.xx.

This is remarkable considering India plays more than half its matches on pitches not conducive to quicks.

OTOH, if take the average for the entire attack - both pace and spin - India has been the best of them all and the only attack to average below 25.

In conclusion, Ishant's transformation as a test quick since 2015 has been a milestone event.
 
Averages of attacks during a 8 year period, both pace and spin.

Indian test attack since Jan 1, 2015 - 24.xx

AUS attack from Jan 1, 2000 to 2008 - 28.xx (only AUS and SL attacks had a sub-30 average emphasizing how easy the batting was in 2000s)

WI attack from Jan 1, 1980 to 1988 - 24.xx

Pak attack from Jan 1, 1990 - 1998 - 28.xx (second best after South Africa)
 
Ab Fan said:
1. Bumrah
2. Shami
3. Kapil
4. Zak
5. Srinath

That's our top 5.

Siraj is nowhere near. Let him pick 100+ ODI wickets, as of now he has made a career thanks to Windies and SL bashing in meaningless bilaterals.
Click to expand...
Agarkar being the 6th best and one of the most underrated 👍🏻
 
AMSS said:
We had a thread/discussion on best pace attacks that played together a couple of years ago.

At that time, stats were pretty eye-opening insofar the Indian test attack of Ishant, Shami and Bumrah had numbers pretty much comparable to the AUS attack of 2000s and WI attack of 80s.

I ran the numbers on statsguru since 2015 (since Ishant stopped being pathetic, basically), and India pace attack is next only to South Africa during this period, averaging 25 to Saffer's 23. Pakistan averages 30 in this period, AUS averages 27.xx.

This is remarkable considering India plays more than half its matches on pitches not conducive to quicks.

OTOH, if take the average for the entire attack - both pace and spin - India has been the best of them all and the only attack to average below 25.

In conclusion, Ishant's transformation as a test quick since 2015 has been a milestone event.
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Glad atleast someone appreciating Ishant 😍
 
Top 10 Indian Pacers in ODIs

1. Jasprit Bumrah
2. Mohammed Shami
3. Kapil Dev (lone wolf)
4. Javagal Srinath
5. Zaheer Khan
6. Ajit Agarkar
7. Irfan Pathan
8. Venkatesh Prasad
9. Manoj Prabhakar/ Bhubaneswar Kumar
10. Ashish Nehra

Siraj is not considered as he has played very little cricket.
I have No idea about careers of Roger Binny and Madan Lal, so they are neglected.
 
160KPH said:
If you’re knocking Waqar down for “ball tampering” though you have to do the same for Imran Khan. Imran Khan bowled at a time when you could get away with even more. In so far as Wasim and Waqar knew anything about ball tampering, it was taught to them by Imran Khan - even they have said they were taught on how to take care of the ball to make it reverse by Imran Khan. Also the thing is, back then, everyone played by the same rules so why not just compare Waqar to his peers who followed the same rules? His record those first few years was still far ahead of everyone else at the time.

Also, Waqar was also incredibly skilled. That’s why even in the early 2000s after Waqar had lost some of his pace, he still had a better strike rate than Wasim. Look at his 7/36 against England in 2001 after he had already been hit by many injuries and was way way past his prime. It’s also just for me, I rate peaks so much when picking a favorite. The first 5 years of Waqar Younis - and also the first few years of Imran Khan by the way - the strike rates of both of them were just absurd. Now, on the other hand, Wasim to me is just magical. He did things I don’t think any other bowler could possibly do. Maybe Wasim is the Messi equivalent to Waqar’s Ronaldo. Thankfully both of them played for Pakistan 😂 I think a lot of it is personal preference, Imran Khan, Waqar, and Wasim are all legends.
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They are all legends. I'm just saying ik when a bowler is bowling with ball tampering and when he isn't.

When waqar didn't bowl with ball tampering he had gun yorkers and killer inswing however his line and length at times were all over the place unlike bumrah who is dead accurate, Same with wasim and imran Khan.

But with ball tampering, Waqar was doing banana air swings that logically can't get achieved in this era.

If they all 3 played in this era the hierarchy would be

Wasim > Imran > Bumrah = Waqar.

Fans would be debating who's better between the 2 lol.
 
LOL @ indians rating zaheer so high when he has a near identical record as Ishant. Both Average and SR.
 
No doubt. Not just India’s but currently world’s best ODI bowling team as well.
 
The 2003 WC bowling unit was also very strong. Almost as strong as the current one, but not above. Perhaps a notch below. Btw, the 99 era bowling unit of Pakistan was obviously great, however it is overrated a bit. As a collective, they didn't convert much. On paper they were very good, however, as a unit they couldnt win as much as they should have going by the impression they gave.
 
Unbiased-Fan said:
Top 10 Indian Pacers in ODIs

1. Jasprit Bumrah
2. Mohammed Shami
3. Kapil Dev (lone wolf)
4. Javagal Srinath
5. Zaheer Khan
6. Ajit Agarkar
7. Irfan Pathan
8. Venkatesh Prasad
9. Manoj Prabhakar/ Bhubaneswar Kumar
10. Ashish Nehra

Siraj is not considered as he has played very little cricket.
I have No idea about careers of Roger Binny and Madan Lal, so they are neglected.
Click to expand...

Irfan for first three years was simply at another level.

I would probably put Nehra at 8 but rest more or less I agree.
 
kron said:
No it is their worst attack. Best attack would be in 90s.

Ofcourse it is their best attack. It is currently the best attack in the world.

You could argue that it's better and more complete than our very own Pakistani attack of 95-99.

Few attacks I rate higher include Aussie attack of 2003, West indies of anything between1975 to 1985

Aus attack of 2015 on par with this brutal attack.



I am talking about all condition based attack by the way.
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Aus yes, but WI 1975 to 1985 didn't have the same varity that India has. India's spin attack is far more potent that WI during that time. Even Australia's 2003 didn't have the same variety. Warne was obviously there, but other types of bowlers were missing. Indian attack can do well on most kind of pitches. Infact, i don't know any surface where they would struggle. They will centrally have off days and perform badly. But on an average, they have everything covered. Good pace attack which swings, seams and has good pace, good wrist bowler, an off spinner and a SLA and then a very competent all-rounder. That is a very good attack which covers most of the playing surfaces and conditions..
 
My all time India ODI XI :-

Rohit
Sachin
Saurav
Kohli
Yuvi
MSD
Hardik/Jadeja( based on conditions)
Kapil
Shami
Bumrah
Kuldeep

4 terrific bowlers, 1 all rounder and multiple 6th bowling options with over 100 wickets to their name.

Batting all the way till 8. Kapil can bat higher if Jadeja is picked instead of Hardik in Asia.

Saurav Ganguly averages 50+ at 3 while Kohli's record at 4 is still very impressive.
 
People are undermining Srinath way too much on this thread. He was definitely a better bowler than Kapil, and should feature only below Bumrah.
 
Sri Lanka head coach Chris Silverwood about India's bowling unit:

"If you look at that bowling attack and you watch them operate, it is a very strong bowling attack. I think any team in the world would want an attack like that, to be honest,"

"But we see that as a great challenge for our guys. We see it as an opportunity to go out and play against the best and see, I mean, pit ourselves against that. But there is no hiding it is a very good bowling attack,"

"I'd rather hope that the defeat in the Asia Cup would give more motivation to the boys to come out and obviously fight tomorrow, show plenty of spirit and get stuck in to the Indian side. They're a very good side, we know that, we've seen them play some superb cricket this tournament so far. But I think it's a good opportunity for our boys to show what they're made of as well. So hopefully, the defeat in the Asia Cup will give motivation to the boys,"​
 
The price of playing genuine bowlers is that India’s tail starts from number 8, in Shami.

This is the only weakness really in this India line up and could prove costly.
 
gazza619 said:
The price of playing genuine bowlers is that India’s tail starts from number 8, in Shami.

This is the only weakness really in this India line up and could prove costly.
Click to expand...

At this point they will trade those extra 25 runs for 10 good overs. No choice if it comes down to that.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
At this point they will trade those extra 25 runs for 10 good overs. No choice if it comes down to that.
Click to expand...

jnaveen1980 said:
At this point they will trade those extra 25 runs for 10 good overs. No choice if it comes down to that.
Click to expand...

25 runs? Shardul will make them once in a while. He will give away 60 in 10 overs and most likely won't take wickets.

Shami may score 5-10 runs but he will take 2 for 50 on most days.
 
mominsaigol said:
They are all legends. I'm just saying ik when a bowler is bowling with ball tampering and when he isn't.

When waqar didn't bowl with ball tampering he had gun yorkers and killer inswing however his line and length at times were all over the place unlike bumrah who is dead accurate, Same with wasim and imran Khan.

But with ball tampering, Waqar was doing banana air swings that logically can't get achieved in this era.

If they all 3 played in this era the hierarchy would be

Wasim > Imran > Bumrah = Waqar.

Fans would be debating who's better between the 2 lol.
Click to expand...
Waqar playing in this era and being close to Bumrah? Waqar was very ordinary new ball bowler. He was also not a good bowler in ODI, used to get spanked most of the times. He went 4.5 runs an over on those days.
 
One of the best in history of cricket.

It's not just about ODI. I think Indian test bowling has averaged below 25 as unit in the last 7-8 years.

Aus and WI attack had this kind of equation.
 
Indeed with the likes of Bumrah, Shami and Siraj following the best two spinners make them a perfect bowing attack in the world right now.
 
Can't compare current Indian pace Trio with Aussie legends.

That was a different time full of legends in all teams. Bats were less thick and DRS was not a thing. And teams focused less on swing and fitness and fielding too.

Bumrah, Siraj, Shami is no.1 in current generation but Shami is old and will retire soon. Bumrah siraj are too injury prone.
 
Yesterday Indian bowlers displayed amazing genuine swing bowling…… some fans said here that ball is swinging under lights……… I don’t think so otherwise srilankan batsmen would have requested umpires to turn off the lights…. Very simple😀
 
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