Is this the turning point for Pakistan vs India in ICC tournaments?

[iniqbal223]

There were three phases of India-Pak rivalries:

1) Pre 2003 era : Pak absolutely dominated India, except for losing WC matches on three occassions 1992,1996 and 1999. Team of this era toyed with Indian batting and bowling everywhere.
2) 2003-2011 era : Accept or not, WC 2003 match defeat against India was very impactful, to the point that Pak lost its dominance over India. It began the era of equal contests, with India winning more crucial matches than Pakistan.
This also saw the rise of young players in India, while we resort back to the strategy of recalling fringe players. Again, young players were not given that much attention, and players played round-robin among themselves.
Rise of Younis , Misbah and Yousuf was the only thing we can perceive of in this era.
3) 2011 - 2017 : Absolutely rubbish period for Pakistan. This is the time where we surrendered completely to India. Major issue again was, instead of introducing young players, we kept the dirt with ourselves (non performing, over hyped players such as Akmals/Wahabs,etc.)
4)* 2017---*: CT win is very important for Pakistan; not because that we have won against India after long time, but more importantly, youngsters fought it out and beaten India to its death. Young players needed to experience the assault, which they have tasted.
Next time, when they step onto the ground, they will just want to kill those Indians.Also, this victory will always have negative impact on Indians, now they will always feel anyone from Pak side can perform, and then they will go into the spiral of defensive mindset.

 

[ahsan17]

Just a reminder, in 2013 we beat India in an ODI series, the only ODI series between the two sides in that time.

 

[in_cutter]

Is this the turning point vs India in ICC tournaments?

Going by their fan reactions, we surely have inflicted some damage.

Will we continue to be competitive vs India in tournaments? I honestly feel the team has finally broken the barrier. To lose by 180 runs and that too in a final vs your arch rival is devastating.

Thoughts?

 

[Sachin136]

Pakistan lost by 124 runs and came back to win in 2 weeks. In 2 years, no one will remember this match and they will start fresh in the world cup.

 

[Enigma_]

Need to win in a WC before I say that. But yesterday was definitely a big step forward in the right direction.

 

[shabir kham]

Pakistan lost by 124 runs and came back to win in 2 weeks. In 2 years, no one will remember this match and they will start fresh in the world cup.

Asia cup 2018?

 

[Sachin136]

Asia cup 2018?

Right, I forgot that the Asia Cup will be ODIs next year.

 

[member250]

I don't believe in jinxes. This was champion trophy final and biggest ODI match between both sides in history. Only thing bigger would have been 50 over WC final between Pak-India, maybe in 2019

 

[nextover666666]

2011-2017 The other game pakistan one during that period aside from the ain do series win, Pakistan did also win the Asia cup match in 2014.

 

[Sachin136]

I don't believe in jinxes. This was champion trophy final and biggest ODI match between both sides in history. Only thing bigger would have been 50 over WC final between Pak-India, maybe in 2019

No, there were plenty of bigger matches between the teams. Most recently, the 2011 SF. This doesn't come close to that.

 

[ar2020]

Pakistan lost by 124 runs and came back to win in 2 weeks. In 2 years, no one will remember this match and they will start fresh in the world cup.

In fact not only are you wrong but you're foolishly wrong. Lemme explain, bud...

Not only will people actually remember this loss of India to Pakistan in the CT Final on FATHER'S DAY by 180 runs while at the same time NO ONE will remember India beating Pakistan 2 weeks prior to that.

 

[ar2020]

This is definitely the turning point. It's a new era. Pakistan whooped India and finally realized playing young players is the way to go.

That loss will send Yuvraj and Dhoni into retirement within the next year mark my words. Who is left on the Indian team that has done well against us in the past? Only Kohli.

Pakistan now have Fakhar, Hasan Ali, Mohammad Amir and Shadab who DO NOT fear India but relish kicking their behinds.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Not sure but Pakistan will be favorites again whenever they play against India next time.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is definitely the turning point. It's a new era. Pakistan whooped India and finally realized playing young players is the way to go.

That loss will send Yuvraj and Dhoni into retirement within the next year mark my words. Who is left on the Indian team that has done well against us in the past? Only Kohli.

Pakistan now have Fakhar, Hasan Ali, Mohammad Amir and Shadab who DO NOT fear India but relish kicking their behinds.

Sending Yuvi and Dhoni into retirement might work in India's favour.

 

[Syed1]

There is no turning point, but it surely would reduce some of India's confidence before facing us.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I think the "fear" against India is gone now and the boys can be relaxed next time when they face India. It doesn't mean we'll always beat India but the main thing was the fear of losing factor should be gone about now.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Has Pakistan beaten india in CT before ?, in which case it is World Cup that had always been hurdle!

 

[idrizzy]

Has Pakistan beaten india in CT before ?, in which case it is World Cup that had always been hurdle!

Yes, we are ahead 3-2 in Champions Trophy. But haven't won a game against them in the World Cup.

 

[yasir]

There is no turning point, but it surely would reduce some of India's confidence before facing us.

Why?? - This is start of new era for Pakistan, Misbahism is left behind in matter of weeks. Pakistan is going in new direction, its not about India only. Pakistan will be top ODI/T20 soon, graph of Pakistan LOI team will only go up. This was not a fluke victory, we hammered top three team, one at a time (SA/ENG/IND) with a method and at the back of our traditional strength. Mojo of bowling is back, left arm, right arm fast and a leggy, new ball swing, backed by reverse swing...Batting, is just getting started, it will be fully baked by next WC...

New Reign has begun for us...We unleashed Reign of terror on England and India in Semi Final and Final...How many teams could do what we have done?? - May be AUS of 2000s, not many other... This is one of the most dominating performance in knockout phases of any ICC trophy, its not a fluke!!

 

[member250]

No, there were plenty of bigger matches between the teams. Most recently, the 2011 SF. This doesn't come close to that.

2011 SF in WC is 2nd. Only thing bigger will be WC final which is just matter of time.

 

[troodon]

I think India is still a much better side than Pak.

Pak was absolute beast yesterday and deserved to win it.

Overall, if both teams play 10 times, I believe India will win 7 out of them.

 

[member250]

I think India is still a much better side than Pak.

Pak was absolute beast yesterday and deserved to win it.

Overall, if both teams play 10 times, I believe India will win 7 out of them.

Record since 2009 is 7-5 in India favor mostly playing ICC tourney matches. In bilateral series Pakistan will demolish India. Ok not demolish like in 80-90's but will have better record.

 

[troodon]

Record since 2009 is 7-5 in India favor mostly playing ICC tourney matches. In bilateral series Pakistan will demolish India. Ok not demolish like in 80-90's but will have better record.

I doubt it.

Indian bowling has improved a lot in the past 2 years. Batting has always been high class. Even fielding is much better.

One good thing about losses to Pak is that India will lose a lot of dead weight it has been carrying.

Aane Do series was the end of Gambhir/Sehwag etc. Now it could be the turn of Yuvraj and MSD.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Don't think so.

But now the hoodoo has been broken and the fear is gone.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Nope , this was a one off. I can see the Indian team still performing very strongly , especially after some of the older players are removed.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I doubt it.

Indian bowling has improved a lot in the past 2 years. Batting has always been high class. Even fielding is much better.

One good thing about losses to Pak is that India will lose a lot of dead weight it has been carrying.

Aane Do series was the end of Gambhir/Sehwag etc. Now it could be the turn of Yuvraj and MSD.

Not impressed by Indian bowling. India is being criticised for not going for wickets this final, but to be honest thats how they play. India is being criticised for sending Pakistan in, but thats how India play. Dhoni was a master at playing the waiting game and for opposition batsmen to make mistakes.

I was laughed at when I said Ashwin and Jadeja, specially Jadeja, are vital cogs of your bowling line-up. An off day for Jadeja would mean India is clattered all over the park. Which is EXACTLY what happened in both Sri Lanka and Pakistan games. Both these sides broke the monotonous tactic and literally shell-shocked India by attacking their main spinner. The pace bowlers take advantage of the choke job these spinners apply or the tall scores the Indian batting manages time and time again. Your best bowling performance this CT was a result of good pressure from the spinners wherein South Africa disintegrated looking for a magical score.

And Hardik Pandya is an ordinary fifth bowler. He just doesn't look to have that wicket taking ability. Fahim Ashraf in one outing looked a much better prospect, even though he has a few flaws in his bowling. And thats Pakistan's fifth bowler along with Shadab Khan.

 

[ethan hunt]

One thing is for sure India will have to outplay Pakistan to win . Hard to see Pakistan choking against India after a 180 run thrashing in a tournament final .
India looked nervous yesterday while Pakistan played fearless cricket .
This is a young Pakistani team and these youngsters will always remember this day .The way they came back in the tournament and beat(thrashed) the best sides is amazing and to cap it all off by thrashing the arch rivals by 180 runs in a world tournament final .
Also the indians i feel have developed a fear of muhammad amir and that stems from Rohit sharma at the top .
Yes they can play better and win but this thrashing will ensure that this young team is not going to lose it between the ears.

 

[English August]

There were three phases of India-Pak rivalries:

1) Pre 2003 era : Pak absolutely dominated India, except for losing WC matches on three occassions 1992,1996 and 1999. Team of this era toyed with Indian batting and bowling everywhere.

Um, no. In fact India toyed with Pakistan in international events before Pakistan started gaining ground 1986 onward. B&H tournament in 1985 is the biggest example - check the scorecards to fully understand the margin of victories. Complete no contests. There was Asia Cup before that (in fact the very first Asia Cup.) Then there was another tournament in Sharjah in 1985 that India won handily (bundled out Pak for 87).

Some Pak fans like to believe that history started in 1986, but it's not true alas!

 

[khurram39]

A mindset has developed here in Pakistan that we can't beat India in ICC tournaments. Now that has broken and this will have definitely impact on players and they will play in the field for winning. Until now we see our players are playing to save the defeat and now they are playing to defeat.

And this impact will continue and can be seen over a period.

 

[Pete Rose]

Difficult to say. A lot depends on what happens next. Unfortunately we don't play India enough to make this good form sustainable.

 

[Tusker]

Um, no. In fact India toyed with Pakistan in international events before Pakistan started gaining ground 1986 onward. B&H tournament in 1985 is the biggest example - check the scorecards to fully understand the margin of victories. Complete no contests. There was Asia Cup before that (in fact the very first Asia Cup.) Then there was another tournament in Sharjah in 1985 that India won handily (bundled out Pak for 87).

Some Pak fans like to believe that history started in 1986, but it's not true alas!

Its ok ... its understandable ... hota hai

 

[nextover666666]

i Think Mohammad Hafeez innings is important he didnt bottle it, and got us to a very good total.

 

[loves_cricket]

You guys must try to make most of this great victory.
Unlike India , Pakistan have serious issue of not having home matches.
Remember if a win is overturned in only 2 weeks, next tournament is months away.

 

[PakLFC]

You guys must try to make most of this great victory.
Unlike India , Pakistan have serious issue of not having home matches.
Remember if a win is overturned in only 2 weeks, next tournament is months away.

Despite that we still walloped you silly! Pak will always have some Cricket. Hope the Windies tank you in the Caribbean. We just defeated them some months back.

 

[Hasan123]

It will improve the confidence of our players. Also players of the future who will have seen the game will now have belief and see that India can be beaten.

 

[pakistani pride]

The good thing is that

Fakhar
Babar
Imad
Sarfaraz
Hasan
Amir
Shadab
Junaid

All these guys will believe they can beat india on the big stage.

Also the playera i mentioned have the right attitude.

The win will go a long way.

 

[blade09242007]

Nope it wont. India will not be playing you guys anymore. It's sad but that's how it is. Friendship is the answer.

 

[ar2020]

One thing is for sure India will have to outplay Pakistan to win . Hard to see Pakistan choking against India after a 180 run thrashing in a tournament final .
India looked nervous yesterday while Pakistan played fearless cricket .
This is a young Pakistani team and these youngsters will always remember this day .The way they came back in the tournament and beat(thrashed) the best sides is amazing and to cap it all off by thrashing the arch rivals by 180 runs in a world tournament final .
Also the indians i feel have developed a fear of muhammad amir and that stems from Rohit sharma at the top .
Yes they can play better and win but this thrashing will ensure that this young team is not going to lose it between the ears.

This. Well said. This is exactly what this win means.

 

[yasir]

One thing is for sure India will have to outplay Pakistan to win . Hard to see Pakistan choking against India after a 180 run thrashing in a tournament final .
India looked nervous yesterday while Pakistan played fearless cricket .
This is a young Pakistani team and these youngsters will always remember this day .The way they came back in the tournament and beat(thrashed) the best sides is amazing and to cap it all off by thrashing the arch rivals by 180 runs in a world tournament final .
Also the indians i feel have developed a fear of muhammad amir and that stems from Rohit sharma at the top .
Yes they can play better and win but this thrashing will ensure that this young team is not going to lose it between the ears.

Amir has wood over Sharma now twice in big matches. It does not end there, Junaid was causing problem for Dhawan and Kohli and not for the first time. In these matches our frontline bowlers coming down on Indian bowlers is a big plus. Again key is that Amir, Junaid(He has won series against India in India, by himself), Hasan play their A game against India, which is a big boost for us. Not to mention next WC match will be in England as well, our bowlers have learned a lot about length to bowl with white ball in England from this tour. They have experience and County Contract too, things can only improve from here!!

All four(Raees as well) also bowled very good reverse swing in this tournament, which is again great for there experience for WC.

This feels like 1986, when tide shifted for our ODI cricket, we started winning big matches and teams!!

 

[Blitz]

I think the game is massive, because it instills a belief in the team that IT CAN BE DONE.

I'm not saying they will be favourites, or they will beat India in the World Cup, but this win will give them that belief.

It will also remove the fear. Losing match after match after match at major tournaments creates that fear, and this young team managed to beat the downward spiral.

Any one saying otherwise is lying to themselves. This was a massive blow to India not just for this tournament, but for future ones. They hardly ever beat us. We beat ourselves by quaking in our boots every time we saw them.