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Is Virat Kohli already the best ODI batsman in the last 15 years?

Ted123

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With all the talks going around in this forum, it seems to be a general consensus that Virat Kohli is already the best Odi batsmen of his generation and has already surpassed the likes of ABDV, Dhoni, Amla and others, which, in my view is far from reality.

For all the fact that Kohli is great under pressure, he has failed to win his team who is strong on paper, a single ICC tournament with the bat.

Do you think he is already the best Odi batsmen of last 15 years or not? Discuss!
 
last 15 years means since 2002 then no, It goes to Ricky Ponting, Tendulker, Inzamam, Dravid, Kallis and Jaysuria

for the last 7 years, I'd pick him for best batsman but he still haven't proved himself in my mind. He needs to win his team a SF and Final to be the best in this era or possibly all time
 
With all the talks going around in this forum, it seems to be a general consensus that Virat Kohli is already the best Odi batsmen of his generation and has already surpassed the likes of ABDV, Dhoni, Amla and others, which, in my view is far from reality.

For all the fact that Kohli is great under pressure, he has failed to win his team who is strong on paper, a single ICC tournament with the bat.

Do you think he is already the best Odi batsmen of last 15 years or not? Discuss!

Wasn't he the highest scorer in the CT13 final? And his 35 in WC2011 was more than decent too. Apart from that, yes he has failed in WC15 semis and CT17 final. But the task was humongous in both instances and the expectations in 330+ chases from Virat are just too high.

He has that reputation of playing well under pressure because he has won India many matches in tough situations. He has been the man of the tournament in last two T20 WCs, and those tournaments catch more eyeballs than a CT.

As far as ODIs are concerned, it is arguable who is the best among VK, AB, MS, etc. Virat has everything except an outstanding WC, but winning a WC for your team single-handidly is not a realistic expectation.
 
Wasn't he the highest scorer in the CT13 final? And his 35 in WC2011 was more than decent too. Apart from that, yes he has failed in WC15 semis and CT17 final. But the task was humongous in both instances and the expectations in 330+ chases from Virat are just too high.

He has that reputation of playing well under pressure because he has won India many matches in tough situations. He has been the man of the tournament in last two T20 WCs, and those tournaments catch more eyeballs than a CT.

As far as ODIs are concerned, it is arguable who is the best among VK, AB, MS, etc. Virat has everything except an outstanding WC, but winning a WC for your team single-handidly is not a realistic expectation.

Those were decent knocks which anyone can play.He wasnt even close to the star player in them.

He has mostly won in bilaterals and Asia cup which is not an enough argument to claim that he is clearly the best Odi batsmen of his era.
 
last 15 years means since 2002 then no, It goes to Ricky Ponting, Tendulker, Inzamam, Dravid, Kallis and Jaysuria

for the last 7 years, I'd pick him for best batsman but he still haven't proved himself in my mind. He needs to win his team a SF and Final to be the best in this era or possibly all time

ODIs specifically. Make it his own generation players to be precise rather than 15 years.
 
In bilateral ODIs? Of course. Anything else and your proposition would be bordering on trolling. Not to mention that ODI pitches everywhere are roads nowadays which wasn't the case 15 years ago and an average of even 40 meant something.
 
Yes he is for this era only, but batsmen from this era who have it easy don't come close against the batsmen of the 80s and 90s and early 00s
 
In bilateral ODIs? Of course. Anything else and your proposition would be bordering on trolling. Not to mention that ODI pitches everywhere are roads nowadays which wasn't the case 15 years ago and an average of even 40 meant something.

Thing is, De Villiers is great in all conditions. Unlike Kohli.
 
ABDV has delivered in World Cups and the solitary tournament final he has played in.

Kohli has choked in WC's so far and averages 22 or something in the dozen (or more) torunament finals he has played in.

ABDV the best of the decade for me so far. Kohli needs to dominate a WC to be called the best of any era. Please dont bring in his t20 WC exploits, for me he is the greatest ever t20 international batsman, We are talking about ODIs here.

For me -

1980's - IVA Richards
1990's - SRT/Lara
2000's - Ponting/SRT
2010's (so far) - ABDV
 
Along with AB yes he is.

I would say not much separates them. Kohli is great at chasing while the latter takes the game away when SA bat first.
 
Thing is, De Villiers is great in all conditions. Unlike Kohli.

Absolutely. Kohli is hilariously incompetent against swing and seam and as evidenced by his show against Lyon and O Keefe recently, he ain't all that against quality spin as well on spinning tracks as well. Is decent against pace and bounce and a monster on flat tracks against weak opposition. Hardly an all round good batsman.
 
Against better quality attacks, AB is superior. Lets not get confused with this Bangla bashing.

Kohli is better under pressure situation and big games but hasn't lived up to that yet.
 
Those were decent knocks which anyone can play.He wasnt even close to the star player in them.

He has mostly won in bilaterals and Asia cup which is not an enough argument to claim that he is clearly the best Odi batsmen of his era.

Haha what? Anyone could have played? We went from 66-5 to 130 in the final cos of Virat mainly. Also as I said, it is arguable who has been the best in this generation.
 
Haha what? Anyone could have played? We went from 66-5 to 130 in the final cos of Virat mainly. Also as I said, it is arguable who has been the best in this generation.

A good batsmen should be able to score 70 runs with 5 wickets remaining if run rate issue isn't there.

It was a clutch knock but not the one where he was the standout performer of the day.

Here we are talking about already being the best of his era not one of the best. Since you said it's arguable so I am ok with that.
 
1) ABD
2) Sachin
3) Ponting
4) Kohli/Amla

The top ODI bats of the last 15 years. Kohli is most definitely not the best, although he is in the conversation and a future ATG.
 
Wasn't he the highest scorer in the CT13 final? And his 35 in WC2011 was more than decent too. Apart from that, yes he has failed in WC15 semis and CT17 final. But the task was humongous in both instances and the expectations in 330+ chases from Virat are just too high.

He has that reputation of playing well under pressure because he has won India many matches in tough situations. He has been the man of the tournament in last two T20 WCs, and those tournaments catch more eyeballs than a CT.

As far as ODIs are concerned, it is arguable who is the best among VK, AB, MS, etc. Virat has everything except an outstanding WC, but winning a WC for your team single-handidly is not a realistic expectation.

The CT 2013 final was a T20 match. Kohli has failed in all three finals he has played in (2011, 2015, 2017).
 
In bilateral ODIs? Of course. Anything else and your proposition would be bordering on trolling. Not to mention that ODI pitches everywhere are roads nowadays which wasn't the case 15 years ago and an average of even 40 meant something.

So there was no spin, seam or swing in the 30 ODI hundreds he has made ?
 
No he is not, He will end up an ATG but ABD will go down as the Greatest of this era, Infact ABD will go down as atleast the Second Greatest of All Time. Amla and Virat will be rated a tier below ABD from their gen.
 
The CT 2013 final was a T20 match. Kohli has failed in all three finals he has played in (2011, 2015, 2017).

And does it count less then? With the situation India was in, that was as crucial as any ODI hundred. Also, that inning helped us win an ODI tournament, so when the question arises whether he has won us an ODI tournament. Yes, he has.

He definitely did not fail in the 2011 WC final. It was an above average inning, given the situation again and the fact that India had lost its two most popular batsmen. Also, he was only 22. But I don't expect you to get that Bilal, you are a notorious not-a-Kohli-fan. In the other two matches, again - yes, he failed. Just like every batsman ever that has tried to chase over 330 in a knockout WC match.

Apart from that he has single-handidly won us many WC T20 matches, which require as much skill and temperament.
 
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Yes,him along with AB.Ponting a close second but Ponting played a lot of games before ‘02.Amla also not that far behind.
 
And does it count less then? With the situation India was in, that was as crucial as any ODI hundred. Also, that inning helped us win an ODI tournament, so when the question arises whether he has won us an ODI tournament. Yes, he has.

He definitely did not fail in the 2011 WC final. It was an above average inning, given the situation again and the fact that India had lost its two most popular batsmen. Also, he was only 22. But I don't expect you to get that Bilal, you are a notorious not-a-Kohli-fan. In the other two matches, again - yes, he failed. Just like every batsman ever that has tried to chase over 330 in a knockout WC match.

Apart from that he has single-handidly won us many WC T20 matches, which require as much skill and temperament.

There is no point in translating performances in one format to another. You really cannot do it, which is why we judge each format separately.

Those 40-odd runs in the CT final were important and prove why Kohli will always find a place in everyone's T20 team.

They do not, however, have anything to do with his ODI game, which is seriously lacking when it comes to big match performances. Yes, he was 22 back in 2011 but how old is Babar? If he can play a good innings in an ICC ODI tournament final, Kohli should be able to as well. Age is no excuse in international cricket. Those 30 runs came at a SR of just over 70, which is not good considering that India were chasing a total. Had his SR been better, it would have been a decent innings but it wasn't, which is why it was a poor effort.

Kohli is superb at handling the pressure of WT20 matches. No doubts about that.
 
Abdv is way way in front of him.
They can't be even compared. Abdv can do everything Kohli can do but Kohli or Amla or others can't do what Abdv does in ODI's.
 
ABDV's level of destruction is unmatchable. Not just against Windies but against good bowling attacks too.
 
Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.
 
Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.

Long time no see.
 
Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.

Who is the best ever?
 
1) ABD
2) Sachin
3) Ponting
4) Kohli/Amla

The top ODI bats of the last 15 years. Kohli is most definitely not the best, although he is in the conversation and a future ATG.

How is De Villers better than Ponting?

Kohli and Ponting have at least won games for there teams in icc tournaments,but De Villers has choked.

I'll take Ponting over ABD any day.
 
Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.
Witch big matches have Kohli won for India in ODI's?
List all of them so everyone can see.
 
ABDV is the best easily and it's not even a contest over the last 15 years and it's indicated by his superior batting average and S/R. And past 2010, he has batted in 3 ICC KO games, failed in 2 of them but in one of them; 2015 WC semi-final vs NZ in NZ he made a superb 65*, don't think his competitors have played a knock in a KO against a top team in testing circumstances of equal measure nor do they average greater then him overall.
 
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Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.

Rubbish.You mean he is superior to Ponting who has won 3 WCs for his team or Tendulkar who holds several world records and has tear apart legendary bowlers like Warne?

Is he even better than Dhoni or Bevan who have achieved far more than Kohli till now?
 
Witch big matches have Kohli won for India in ODI's?
List all of them so everyone can see.

No need for that, you will not consider any of those games as 'big'. Kohli has done everything in his ODI career, and one great World Cup or an iconic innings in a World Cup knockout will help him surpass everyone.
 
Rubbish.You mean he is superior to Ponting who has won 3 WCs for his team or Tendulkar who holds several world records and has tear apart legendary bowlers like Warne?

Is he even better than Dhoni or Bevan who have achieved far more than Kohli till now?

If you are going to ask a question then you should also listen to the answers with some patience. Yes he is better than Dhoni and Bevan, and he has surpassed Tendulkar and Ponting as well.

Ponting has 3 World Cups to his name but he also played for arguably the greatest ODI side of all time. He never had to carry the Australian ODI team the way Kohli has carried the Indian team for a number of years now. Yes he played great innings in the 2003 World Cup final, but he also failed in many World Cup knockouts. However, the prowess of his team meant that he had plenty of opportunities.

Put Kohli in the 2000-2006 Australian side and I think Kohli will outdo Ponting, but Ponting would not take the current Indian team to greater heights than Kohli, who is the most ruthless match-winner I have seen in ODIs, and he is by far the greatest chaser of all time. I haven't seen a more calculated and intelligent ODI batsman, and I have seen many.

Cricket has seen great top-order batsman and great finishers, but Kohli is two in one. If you are chasing 320 and you are 50/4, you will still have hope of winning the game if Kohli is at the crease. He has this presence and aura.

People can nitpick all they want, but I am positive that Kohli is well on his way to GOAT status in ODIs, and at this point, Viv Richards is the only batsman that I will take over him in this format.
 
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If you are going to ask a question then you should also listen to the answers with some patience. Yes he is better than Dhoni and Bevan, and he has surpassed Tendulkar and Ponting as well.

Ponting has 3 World Cups to his name but he also played for arguably the greatest ODI side of all time. He never had to carry the Australian ODI team the way Kohli has carried the Indian team for a number of years now. Yes he played great innings in the 2003 World Cup final, but he also failed in many World Cup knockouts. However, the prowess of his team meant that he had plenty of opportunities.

Put Kohli in the 2000-2006 Australian side and I think Kohli will outdo Ponting, but Ponting would not take the current Indian team to greater heights than Kohli, who is the most ruthless match-winner I have seen in ODIs, and he is by far the greatest chaser of all time. I haven't seen a more calculated and intelligent ODI batsman, and I have seen many.

Cricket has seen great top-order batsman and great finishers, but Kohli is two in one. If you are chasing 320 and you are 50/4, you will still have hope of winning the game if Kohli is at the crease. He has this presence and aura.

People can nitpick all they want, but I am positive that Kohli is well on his way to GOAT status in ODIs, and at this point, Viv Richards is the only batsman that I will take over him in this format.

OK. Let's analyse your points one by one.

Ponting did played for the great Australian side but being the best batsmen in that legendary side and taking the team to 3 World Cups as a leader and as a standout batsmen is clearly a stuff of gods.

Kohli carried the Indian batting lineup. Really?? This is not the 90s side you are talking about. When and how did he really carried the Indian lineup??

2011 WC- Yuvi, Sachin, Zaheer, MSD, Gambit were clearly the standout performers and won them the tournament.

2013 CT- Raina, Dhawan and jadeja were again the standout performers in the team and although Kohli played one good knock in finals, it wasn't a match winning one. Those were clearly more standout performers than Kohli

2015 WC- Again, Dhawan was their best batsmen and barring one match vs Pakistan , Kohli failed to deliver again.

2017 CT- He choked in finals even though his team were the favourites.

When has he carried the batting lineup like you are mentioning?

In bilaterals at home, even Amla and ABD can carry the SA team and not just home but away also.

I ask again, What has he done to be rated higher than Dhoni or Bevan let alone Ponting or Tendulkar?
 
If you are going to ask a question then you should also listen to the answers with some patience. Yes he is better than Dhoni and Bevan, and he has surpassed Tendulkar and Ponting as well.

Ponting has 3 World Cups to his name but he also played for arguably the greatest ODI side of all time. He never had to carry the Australian ODI team the way Kohli has carried the Indian team for a number of years now. Yes he played great innings in the 2003 World Cup final, but he also failed in many World Cup knockouts. However, the prowess of his team meant that he had plenty of opportunities.

Put Kohli in the 2000-2006 Australian side and I think Kohli will outdo Ponting, but Ponting would not take the current Indian team to greater heights than Kohli, who is the most ruthless match-winner I have seen in ODIs, and he is by far the greatest chaser of all time. I haven't seen a more calculated and intelligent ODI batsman, and I have seen many.

Cricket has seen great top-order batsman and great finishers, but Kohli is two in one. If you are chasing 320 and you are 50/4, you will still have hope of winning the game if Kohli is at the crease. He has this presence and aura.

People can nitpick all they want, but I am positive that Kohli is well on his way to GOAT status in ODIs, and at this point, Viv Richards is the only batsman that I will take over him in this format.

Agree with most of what you say but I would swap Tendulkar with Viv ... Tendulkar had a similar aura and battled faaar tougher opponents than Viv and Kohli for much much longer and in a weaker team. One thing I like about Tendulkar is how he has silently mentored Kohli behind the scenes. Kohli is a big Tendulkar fan and Iam sure in due course Kohli will go past him and construct a similarly well rounded career.. He already is ahead when it comes to Chasing.
 
OK. Let's analyse your points one by one.

Ponting did played for the great Australian side but being the best batsmen in that legendary side and taking the team to 3 World Cups as a leader and as a standout batsmen is clearly a stuff of gods.

Kohli carried the Indian batting lineup. Really?? This is not the 90s side you are talking about. When and how did he really carried the Indian lineup??

2011 WC- Yuvi, Sachin, Zaheer, MSD, Gambit were clearly the standout performers and won them the tournament.

2013 CT- Raina, Dhawan and jadeja were again the standout performers in the team and although Kohli played one good knock in finals, it wasn't a match winning one. Those were clearly more standout performers than Kohli

2015 WC- Again, Dhawan was their best batsmen and barring one match vs Pakistan , Kohli failed to deliver again.

2017 CT- He choked in finals even though his team were the favourites.

When has he carried the batting lineup like you are mentioning?

In bilaterals at home, even Amla and ABD can carry the SA team and not just home but away also.

I ask again, What has he done to be rated higher than Dhoni or Bevan let alone Ponting or Tendulkar?

He did not carry the team in 2011, but post 2011, he has been Indian's main batsman because Tendulkar, Sehwag, Yuvraj and Gambhir were all done. He has performed in all countries against all opposition and has chased down massive totals, and has won India more matches than anyone in this decade.

For me, the greatest pressure in ODIs when it comes to batting is the pressure of World Cups and the pressure of chasing big totals. Kohli has not been very good in World Cups so far, but he has been better than Amla who has been a minnow-basher in World Cups and doesn't even have a single hundred against a test playing team in World Cups.

However, let's not forget that Amla and de Villiers have played two World Cups in their peaks, while Kohli has only played one (he was not at his peak in 2011, but Amla and de Villiers were at their peaks in 2011 and 2015). So far his only real failure was the 2015 World Cup, but 2015 was not a great year for him overall, which means that it wasn't the pressure of the World Cup but his poor form in general.

He was outstanding in the CT and one failure doesn't make him a choker. He is one of the most clutch players ever and a proper pressure performer, but anyone can fail for once. He has been single-handedly destroying Pakistan in the last 5-6 matches and he was bound to have a bad game against us for once - the Law of Averages had to catch up with him.

Pakistani fans should be the last ones to call Kohli a choker, considering how much he has made us suffer over the years with his bat. He has toyed with our bowling attack across formats.

So after World Cups, the greatest pressure in ODIs is big run chases, and I don't need to elaborate on that. He is by far the greatest run chaser the game has seen: his execution, calculation, temperament and ability to pace innings is at a different level.

He ticks more boxes than every ODI batsman except Viv. Tendulkar did not have the ruthless streak to win matches the way he does. With Tendulkar, you knew that you have a chance of winning the game even if he scores a hundred, but with Kohli you have almost no chance of winning the game if he gets going.

Ponting also had this aura, but he is nowhere near Kohli when it comes to chasing totals. He had the luxury of an ATG attack which meant that he was rarely tested when it comes to chasing huge totals, and he would not have been able to match Kohli on that front. It takes extreme skill and mental strength to chase down big totals time and time again.

Both Dhoni and Bevan are ODI ATGs, certainly among the top 5 of all time, but Kohli has more upside and is a much more complete batsman. Dhoni and Bevan were not world class in Tests, so they had certain limitations to their ODI game unlike Kohli, whose all-format prowess helps him adjust to different roles and scenarios in ODIs.

Bevan rarely played at number 3, and spent more than half of his ODI career at 6/7. He was a brilliant player for his role like Dhoni, but Kohli not only plays their role but he is also a number 3 batsman who has the responsibility to lay platform for others.

Kohli, Dhoni and Bevan are three best finishers ever, and only one of them has been a number 3, which shows Kohli's unique skill. His ability to finish games as a top-order batsman is what sets him apart from the rest. When it comes to chasing big totals, Amla and de Villiers are nowhere close to his level. 9/10 times they fail to chase 300+ totals.
 
Agree with most of what you say but I would swap Tendulkar with Viv ... Tendulkar had a similar aura and battled faaar tougher opponents than Viv and Kohli for much much longer and in a weaker team. One thing I like about Tendulkar is how he has silently mentored Kohli behind the scenes. Kohli is a big Tendulkar fan and Iam sure in due course Kohli will go past him and construct a similarly well rounded career.. He already is ahead when it comes to Chasing.


As an opposition if I had both Kohli and Tendulkar at their peaks playing against me, I would want Kohli's wicket more because if he stays at the crease he is going to run away with the game, especially when it comes to chasing. For example, in 2004, India were chasing 330 at Rawalpindi and Tendulkar scored 141 but India still lost.

Against Australia in 2009, Tendulkar scored 175 but India's still fell short of Australia's total. In situations like these and having scored 141 and 175, Kohli would not let the game slip away. His hunger for winning matches is superior.

Tendulkar had other qualities which were superior to Kohli's, but on any given day I would put my money on Kohli to win me the match than Tendulkar, and I don't agree with the notion that he wasn't a match-winner; that's rubbish, but Kohli is a superior match-winner for sure.
 
He did not carry the team in 2011, but post 2011, he has been Indian's main batsman because Tendulkar, Sehwag, Yuvraj and Gambhir were all done. He has performed in all countries against all opposition and has chased down massive totals, and has won India more matches than anyone in this decade.

For me, the greatest pressure in ODIs when it comes to batting is the pressure of World Cups and the pressure of chasing big totals. Kohli has not been very good in World Cups so far, but he has been better than Amla who has been a minnow-basher in World Cups and doesn't even have a single hundred against a test playing team in World Cups.

However, let's not forget that Amla and de Villiers have played two World Cups in their peaks, while Kohli has only played one (he was not at his peak in 2011, but Amla and de Villiers were at their peaks in 2011 and 2015). So far his only real failure was the 2015 World Cup, but 2015 was not a great year for him overall, which means that it wasn't the pressure of the World Cup but his poor form in general.

He was outstanding in the CT and one failure doesn't make him a choker. He is one of the most clutch players ever and a proper pressure performer, but anyone can fail for once. He has been single-handedly destroying Pakistan in the last 5-6 matches and he was bound to have a bad game against us for once - the Law of Averages had to catch up with him.

Pakistani fans should be the last ones to call Kohli a choker, considering how much he has made us suffer over the years with his bat. He has toyed with our bowling attack across formats.

So after World Cups, the greatest pressure in ODIs is big run chases, and I don't need to elaborate on that. He is by far the greatest run chaser the game has seen: his execution, calculation, temperament and ability to pace innings is at a different level.

He ticks more boxes than every ODI batsman except Viv. Tendulkar did not have the ruthless streak to win matches the way he does. With Tendulkar, you knew that you have a chance of winning the game even if he scores a hundred, but with Kohli you have almost no chance of winning the game if he gets going.

Ponting also had this aura, but he is nowhere near Kohli when it comes to chasing totals. He had the luxury of an ATG attack which meant that he was rarely tested when it comes to chasing huge totals, and he would not have been able to match Kohli on that front. It takes extreme skill and mental strength to chase down big totals time and time again.

Both Dhoni and Bevan are ODI ATGs, certainly among the top 5 of all time, but Kohli has more upside and is a much more complete batsman. Dhoni and Bevan were not world class in Tests, so they had certain limitations to their ODI game unlike Kohli, whose all-format prowess helps him adjust to different roles and scenarios in ODIs.

Bevan rarely played at number 3, and spent more than half of his ODI career at 6/7. He was a brilliant player for his role like Dhoni, but Kohli not only plays their role but he is also a number 3 batsman who has the responsibility to lay platform for others.

Kohli, Dhoni and Bevan are three best finishers ever, and only one of them has been a number 3, which shows Kohli's unique skill. His ability to finish games as a top-order batsman is what sets him apart from the rest. When it comes to chasing big totals, Amla and de Villiers are nowhere close to his level. 9/10 times they fail to chase 300+ totals.

When has he chased down massive totals outside India against Aus, SA, NZ and Eng?No he hasn't done that. And de Villiers didn't failed in 2015 WC. He was the third leading run scorer batting at 4-5 at an outrageous SR which is a commendable effort and his extent of destruction is second to Viv only.

I am surprised with your rankings i.e. putting 3 Indians in top5. How many WCs have they won if they have 3 batsmen in top5? Or do they just produce greatest batsmen but dont win WC? Australians have won 5 and you have just one batsmen in top5?? Having one South African or two Australian or two Indians or even two Pakistani is understandable but 3 in top5?? That's hilarious.
 
Id say yes If both Ab came into bat and kohli id prize kohlis wickets a lot higher

Yes Ab has a brilliant 360 degree shot making ability and will play some brilliant innings everynow and then but kohlis ability to win the game no matter how tough situation is unsurpassed

Even in the CT final the game wasnt over till Kohli was there Thats how good he is
 
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As an opposition if I had both Kohli and Tendulkar at their peaks playing against me, I would want Kohli's wicket more because if he stays at the crease he is going to run away with the game, especially when it comes to chasing. For example, in 2004, India were chasing 330 at Rawalpindi and Tendulkar scored 141 but India still lost.

Against Australia in 2009, Tendulkar scored 175 but India's still fell short of Australia's total. In situations like these and having scored 141 and 175, Kohli would not let the game slip away. His hunger for winning matches is superior.

Tendulkar had other qualities which were superior to Kohli's, but on any given day I would put my money on Kohli to win me the match than Tendulkar, and I don't agree with the notion that he wasn't a match-winner; that's rubbish, but Kohli is a superior match-winner for sure.

Agree ... there is no doubt that Kohli is a superior in chasing totals. There is more to overall batting than just chasing. Tendulkar would be ahead in areas such as dealing with difficult bowlers, setting up great totals and just overall consistency over a long long period of time. I hope Kohli will get there eventually.

Never in my wildest dreams did I expect someone to emerge who could even challenge Tendulkar's stature. Exciting times ahead.
 
When has he chased down massive totals outside India against Aus, SA, NZ and Eng?No he hasn't done that. And de Villiers didn't failed in 2015 WC. He was the third leading run scorer batting at 4-5 at an outrageous SR which is a commendable effort and his extent of destruction is second to Viv only.

I am surprised with your rankings i.e. putting 3 Indians in top5. How many WCs have they won if they have 3 batsmen in top5? Or do they just produce greatest batsmen but dont win WC? Australians have won 5 and you have just one batsmen in top5?? Having one South African or two Australian or two Indians or even two Pakistani is understandable but 3 in top5?? That's hilarious.

Kohli definitely gets overrated in this forum. I don't think he is yet in the league of Sachin or Ponting because they simply achieved a lot more, let alone claiming that he is the second greatest OdI batsmen of all time.

We won a WC in 1983 and produced one of the greatest OdI all rounder in form of Kapil Dev. Since then we won just one WC and it is just not possible that we manage to produce three of the five greatest batsmen ever in ODIs with one WC win. Kohli has to win one more WC to really hit that league.

I find it hilarious when even Pakistani posters put 3 Pakistani bowlers in top5 bowlers list.

I would argue he has the calibre to do that but currently he is not even ahead of AB who at his peak atleast had a great World Cup in 2015 unless people start nitpicking those stats to a different level. He has also smashed good bowling attacks and although the bashing ability increases if the bowling is inferior but that is a natural phenomena.

However, AB himself is not in Sachin/Ponting tier because he isnt the same under pressure moments and hasn't won anything in big tournaments for them but still an ATG.
 
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When has he chased down massive totals outside India against Aus, SA, NZ and Eng?No he hasn't done that. And de Villiers didn't failed in 2015 WC. He was the third leading run scorer batting at 4-5 at an outrageous SR which is a commendable effort and his extent of destruction is second to Viv only.

I am surprised with your rankings i.e. putting 3 Indians in top5. How many WCs have they won if they have 3 batsmen in top5? Or do they just produce greatest batsmen but dont win WC? Australians have won 5 and you have just one batsmen in top5?? Having one South African or two Australian or two Indians or even two Pakistani is understandable but 3 in top5?? That's hilarious.

You are right that he has not chased down massive totals in Australia, SA, NZ and England. He has put his team in a position to do so, but he hasn't been able to finish the job. However, other players have not been able to do it even at home, let alone do it in other countries.

If you are going to judge Kohli with a different yardstick, then you will find some kinks in his armory. However, if you judge all batsmen by the same yardstick, then you will see that Kohli is lightyears ahead of everyone else in history when it comes to chasing down massive totals.

Let others get anywhere close to Kohli when it comes to chasing big totals at home, and maybe then we can compare how they fare in other countries.

Secondly, if we start doing micro-analysis, then we will find kinks in the armories of every great batsman, and I can give you many, many examples:

- Batting like a tail-ender in India did not stop Lara from being known as one of the greatest players of spin ever.

- Ponting was nothing special in the 90's against some of the ATG bowlers of that generation, and his best years came in the 2000s when most other teams did not have top quality bowlers, and Ponting had the luxury of not facing the likes of McGrath and Warne. However, he is still an ATG.

- Tendulkar scored a combined 22 runs in two World Cups final. That didn't stop him from becoming one of the top 3/top 5 batsman of all time.

- During the careers of Amla and de Villiers, SA have only won a single knockout match (WC 2015 QF) across all Limited Overs tournaments (WC, CT, WT20), and in that win they had no contribution with the bat.

However, in spite of being massive losers in big Limited Overs games, they are still considered fantastic players.

- Dhoni does not have a single ODI century outside Asia, but he is still an ATG.

- Viv Richards, the greatest ODI batsman of all time, had a mediocre record against Pakistan who had the second best bowling attack in his era. The best bowling attack was of course the WI, and he had the luxury of not playing against them.

Secondly, de Villiers did not fail in the 2015 World Cup, but he doesn't have the temperament to finish the job for his team and often loses composure when he takes his team close to victory. Against Pakistan, he played a brilliant innings but got out at the wrong time. He managed to do the same against Pakistan in 2013 when he played a brilliant innings but got out at the wrong time, and the others players especially Amla, pulled off one of the great chokes in ODI history.

In a situation like that, Kohli takes his team more often than not. de Villiers is a superb player, but he doesn't have Kohli's mental strength to win games.

Also, his reluctance to bat in the top-order has also cost SA many games. In spite of being the best batsman in the side, he restricts himself to very few overs. In 2015, he was in his peak and the number 5 position was too low for him. In the semifinal, he restricted himself to 45 deliveries only while du Plessis and Rossouw played mediocre innings at 3 and 4 and prevented SA from running away with the game. Had de Villiers batted at 3 in the 2015 World Cup, they would certainly have made the final.

Kohli bats at number 3 and grabs the game by the scruff of its neck. He does the dirty work himself and doesn't rely on the platform set by others which de Villiers does, which is why de Villiers' own countryman and former SA cricketer Cullinan said that "Kohli at number 3 shapes more ODI wins than de Villiers".

Even if we go back to the 2013 CT, in the SF against England, de Villiers hid in the dugout when the SA top-order had collapsed in swinging conditions, and sent a bowling all-rounder ahead of him. However, cricket is a great leveler and when de Villiers came out to bat in the 13th over when the ball had stopped swinging, he got a 10 ball duck.

In the final, in similarly swinging conditions, Kohli came at 3 and steered India's innings. Cricket is a game of character and guts, more so than talent. De Villiers has the latter in abundance, but he clearly lacks the former, which is why for all his statistics he has failed to win any big matches for his team.

So the bottom-line is that if we start looking at things with a microscope, no batsmen will tick all boxes. However, the ones who tick more boxes than others tower above the rest, and Kohli ticks more boxes than any ODI batsman in history except for Viv. The only box that is left for him to tick is to have a great World Cup or play a great, match-winning innings in a World Cup knockout, and if he achieves that, he will IMO become the greatest ODI batsman of all time.

India have produced some of the best ODI batsmen of all time, but winning the World Cups is a function of the overall strength of the team and not just good batting. India haven't had the bowling to win more than two World Cups. For example, the 2003 World Cup final was clearly lost by the bowlers.

Australia have five World Cups but take a look at how good their bowling was. McGrath has been the greatest World Cup bowler ever and Shane Warne has been brilliant as well, not to forget the likes of Starc, Lee etc. Australia have batted well in World Cups but their bowlers have won them the big moments.

In 1999, it was their bowling that won them the SF and Final. In 2003, their batting collapsed in the SF but the bowlers again delivered. In 2015, Starc was outstanding, and they didn't have to do much batting in the QF and the Final. In 2007, four of the top six wicket-takers were Australians. Even if we go back to 1987, it was their bowlers who defending totals in the SF and Final and especially in the Final where England were cruising at one point.

If India in the 2000s would have Australia's bowling attack of McGrath, Warne, Lee etc., they would have won more World Cups as well. Similarly, put Kohli in that Australian side and he will give you World Cups as well.

You can find it hilarious if you want, but it is a fact that Kohli, Tendulkar and Dhoni are certainly among the top 5 ODI batsmen in history.
 
You are right that he has not chased down massive totals in Australia, SA, NZ and England. He has put his team in a position to do so, but he hasn't been able to finish the job. However, other players have not been able to do it even at home, let alone do it in other countries.

If you are going to judge Kohli with a different yardstick, then you will find some kinks in his armory. However, if you judge all batsmen by the same yardstick, then you will see that Kohli is lightyears ahead of everyone else in history when it comes to chasing down massive totals.

Let others get anywhere close to Kohli when it comes to chasing big totals at home, and maybe then we can compare how they fare in other countries.

Secondly, if we start doing micro-analysis, then we will find kinks in the armories of every great batsman, and I can give you many, many examples:

- Batting like a tail-ender in India did not stop Lara from being known as one of the greatest players of spin ever.

- Ponting was nothing special in the 90's against some of the ATG bowlers of that generation, and his best years came in the 2000s when most other teams did not have top quality bowlers, and Ponting had the luxury of not facing the likes of McGrath and Warne. However, he is still an ATG.

- Tendulkar scored a combined 22 runs in two World Cups final. That didn't stop him from becoming one of the top 3/top 5 batsman of all time.

- During the careers of Amla and de Villiers, SA have only won a single knockout match (WC 2015 QF) across all Limited Overs tournaments (WC, CT, WT20), and in that win they had no contribution with the bat.

However, in spite of being massive losers in big Limited Overs games, they are still considered fantastic players.

- Dhoni does not have a single ODI century outside Asia, but he is still an ATG.

- Viv Richards, the greatest ODI batsman of all time, had a mediocre record against Pakistan who had the second best bowling attack in his era. The best bowling attack was of course the WI, and he had the luxury of not playing against them.

Secondly, de Villiers did not fail in the 2015 World Cup, but he doesn't have the temperament to finish the job for his team and often loses composure when he takes his team close to victory. Against Pakistan, he played a brilliant innings but got out at the wrong time. He managed to do the same against Pakistan in 2013 when he played a brilliant innings but got out at the wrong time, and the others players especially Amla, pulled off one of the great chokes in ODI history.

In a situation like that, Kohli takes his team more often than not. de Villiers is a superb player, but he doesn't have Kohli's mental strength to win games.

Also, his reluctance to bat in the top-order has also cost SA many games. In spite of being the best batsman in the side, he restricts himself to very few overs. In 2015, he was in his peak and the number 5 position was too low for him. In the semifinal, he restricted himself to 45 deliveries only while du Plessis and Rossouw played mediocre innings at 3 and 4 and prevented SA from running away with the game. Had de Villiers batted at 3 in the 2015 World Cup, they would certainly have made the final.

Kohli bats at number 3 and grabs the game by the scruff of its neck. He does the dirty work himself and doesn't rely on the platform set by others which de Villiers does, which is why de Villiers' own countryman and former SA cricketer Cullinan said that "Kohli at number 3 shapes more ODI wins than de Villiers".

Even if we go back to the 2013 CT, in the SF against England, de Villiers hid in the dugout when the SA top-order had collapsed in swinging conditions, and sent a bowling all-rounder ahead of him. However, cricket is a great leveler and when de Villiers came out to bat in the 13th over when the ball had stopped swinging, he got a 10 ball duck.

In the final, in similarly swinging conditions, Kohli came at 3 and steered India's innings. Cricket is a game of character and guts, more so than talent. De Villiers has the latter in abundance, but he clearly lacks the former, which is why for all his statistics he has failed to win any big matches for his team.

So the bottom-line is that if we start looking at things with a microscope, no batsmen will tick all boxes. However, the ones who tick more boxes than others tower above the rest, and Kohli ticks more boxes than any ODI batsman in history except for Viv. The only box that is left for him to tick is to have a great World Cup or play a great, match-winning innings in a World Cup knockout, and if he achieves that, he will IMO become the greatest ODI batsman of all time.

India have produced some of the best ODI batsmen of all time, but winning the World Cups is a function of the overall strength of the team and not just good batting. India haven't had the bowling to win more than two World Cups. For example, the 2003 World Cup final was clearly lost by the bowlers.

Australia have five World Cups but take a look at how good their bowling was. McGrath has been the greatest World Cup bowler ever and Shane Warne has been brilliant as well, not to forget the likes of Starc, Lee etc. Australia have batted well in World Cups but their bowlers have won them the big moments.

In 1999, it was their bowling that won them the SF and Final. In 2003, their batting collapsed in the SF but the bowlers again delivered. In 2015, Starc was outstanding, and they didn't have to do much batting in the QF and the Final. In 2007, four of the top six wicket-takers were Australians. Even if we go back to 1987, it was their bowlers who defending totals in the SF and Final and especially in the Final where England were cruising at one point.

If India in the 2000s would have Australia's bowling attack of McGrath, Warne, Lee etc., they would have won more World Cups as well. Similarly, put Kohli in that Australian side and he will give you World Cups as well.

You can find it hilarious if you want, but it is a fact that Kohli, Tendulkar and Dhoni are certainly among the top 5 ODI batsmen in history.

Lol you talk about nitpicking of stats but you are doing the same here by clearly undermining Ponting and de Villiers.You are nitpicking de Villiers performance in WC 2015.

Ponting played a great knock in WC 2011 Qf when there was nobody left from that great Australian side and he himself was passed his peak days.

And Kohli has the luxury of some quality clutch players. He is not playing in the Bangladesh side that he can't win WC for his team and can't perform.

You brought the 2013CT semi final instance for de Villiers. Look the trick worked in a game Vs India where Petersen scored 70 and there is nothing wrong in repeating the same instance. And Kohli won't have performed if he was in place of deVilliers in that game because he is very poor against swing and the bowler was Anderson mind you.

It is indeed hilarious to put three Indian batsmen out of 5 and there is no way one can agree with that.
 
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Forget the last 15 years, he is the second best ODI batsman ever and will most certainly be the best by the time he retires.

de Villiers is just hot air. Can't win big matches for his team. However, he is merciless when it comes to scoring soft runs.

Agreed.

Talking about him against swing and seam, why do people forget his Asia Cup innings against Amir in the 83 chase. It doesn't matter if it was a T20 or not; the ball was swinging and seaming like crazy, yet Kohli overcame everything and put India in a winning position.
 
Used to rate Dhoni and Ab in front of him, but he's overtaken them. So I'd say yes.
 
Forget ODIs , he's only one to average 50 in all three formats .. he's likely the greatest batsman of all time.
 
How is De Villers better than Ponting?

Kohli and Ponting have at least won games for there teams in icc tournaments,but De Villers has choked.

I'll take Ponting over ABD any day.

Kohli has also won games for his team in ICC tournaments, so has Amla. Kohli, however, has choked massively in the four biggest matches of his career. When he was being carried by the likes of Sachin and Dhoni, his failures were masked over but in recent times, they have cost India two ICC trophies.

2011 WC semi-final.
2011 WC final.
2015 WC semi-final.
2017 CT final.

As for Ponting, he's definitely a great pressure player but ABD is not the choker people make him out to be either. Unlike Kohli, AB himself has done his job in the big matches but his team-mates haven't done their part. In everything else, AB is the better batsman which is why I have his #1.

I'd have him in my top 3 though

Top five for me. Behind ABD, Sachin, Ponting and level with Amla.
 
Agreed.

Talking about him against swing and seam, why do people forget his Asia Cup innings against Amir in the 83 chase. It doesn't matter if it was a T20 or not; the ball was swinging and seaming like crazy, yet Kohli overcame everything and put India in a winning position.

It does matter because Amir could only bowl three overs while Kohli was at the crease and could not afford to have overly attacking fields because of the 83 run target.

It is the height of naivety to say "it doesn't matter".
 
Kohli has also won games for his team in ICC tournaments, so has Amla. Kohli, however, has choked massively in the four biggest matches of his career. When he was being carried by the likes of Sachin and Dhoni, his failures were masked over but in recent times, they have cost India two ICC trophies.

2011 WC semi-final.
2011 WC final.
2015 WC semi-final.
2017 CT final.

As for Ponting, he's definitely a great pressure player but ABD is not the choker people make him out to be either. Unlike Kohli, AB himself has done his job in the big matches but his team-mates haven't done their part. In everything else, AB is the better batsman which is why I have his #1.



Top five for me. Behind ABD, Sachin, Ponting and level with Amla.

I was thinking around about the last 5 years or so top 3, but if we go back 15 then yeah probably a top 5-10
 
Kohli has also won games for his team in ICC tournaments, so has Amla. Kohli, however, has choked massively in the four biggest matches of his career. When he was being carried by the likes of Sachin and Dhoni, his failures were masked over but in recent times, they have cost India two ICC trophies.

2011 WC semi-final.
2011 WC final.
2015 WC semi-final.
2017 CT final.

As for Ponting, he's definitely a great pressure player but ABD is not the choker people make him out to be either. Unlike Kohli, AB himself has done his job in the big matches but his team-mates haven't done their part. In everything else, AB is the better batsman which is why I have his #1.



Top five for me. Behind ABD, Sachin, Ponting and level with Amla.

The sheer irony of an Amla fan accusing Kohli of being a choker :))

It won't be hard for you to realize that no matter how you look at it, Amla is by far the biggest choker in history of Limited Overs cricket. No other batsman has been such a failure under pressure in spite of having such outstanding stats.

Let's look at the game big games that he has choked in over his career:

2011 World Cup quarter-final
2013 Champions Trophy semi-final
2015 World Cup quarter-final
2015 World Cup semi-final
2017 Champions Trophy must-win match against India

and InshAllah he will once again choke in the 2019 World Cup, and let's not even talk about his numerous chokes in WT20s.
 
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It does matter because Amir could only bowl three overs while Kohli was at the crease and could not afford to have overly attacking fields because of the 83 run target.

It is the height of naivety to say "it doesn't matter".

Not sure why people overlook those factors, he's a great batsman but needs to play a really big knock in a high profile 50 over game against decent opposition. If he had played well in the CT final I'd have given credit where due. There are some people who rate even Sachin ahead of Virat, and he's played some very memorable innings in World Cups and has also scored his runs in some testing circumstances, he's Indian as well and no one has issue giving credit where due but people are overly biased in favour of Kohli due to superficial factors and other agendas
 
Lol you talk about nitpicking of stats but you are doing the same here by clearly undermining Ponting and de Villiers.You are nitpicking de Villiers performance in WC 2015.

Ponting played a great knock in WC 2011 Qf when there was nobody left from that great Australian side and he himself was passed his peak days.

And Kohli has the luxury of some quality clutch players. He is not playing in the Bangladesh side that he can't win WC for his team and can't perform.

You brought the 2013CT semi final instance for de Villiers. Look the trick worked in a game Vs India where Petersen scored 70 and there is nothing wrong in repeating the same instance. And Kohli won't have performed if he was in place of deVilliers in that game because he is very poor against swing and the bowler was Anderson mind you.

It is indeed hilarious to put three Indian batsmen out of 5 and there is no way one can agree with that.

The ball was also swinging in the CT final but Kohli handled it unlike de Villiers. But yes, I know the formula. When Kohli does well, the conditions are good for batting and when he does poorly, the conditions are difficult for batting. Basically the conditions are determined by how Kohli performs.

I am not nit-picking; I am simply giving you examples that if we start micro-analyzing, no batsmen will be faultless, and I brought it up because you stated that Kohli has not chased down big totals in Australia, South Africa, England etc., while conveniently ignoring the fact that no other batsman has the skill, temperament and guts to chase down big totals even at home.

Kohli is already lightyears ahead of everyone when it comes to chasing. Whether he does it in a few select countries or not will not affect how he fares against his competitors because he has already left them behind.
 
And by the way, Kohli did not 'choke' in the 2011 World Cup final.

He was 21 at that time, playing in a World Cup final in front of the huge expectations of the home crowd and India were chasing 275 which was a big total at that time.

India were in trouble at 30/2 when he walked out and they had just lost Tendulkar, much to the disbelief of the crowd. There was pin-drop silence in the stadium and the pressure on Kohli and the other Indian batsmen was huge.

His partnership with Gambhir was crucial and played a huge part in ensuring that India did not fall apart. Those 35 runs that he scored were worth more than a 60-70 considering the context and the circumstances.

Kohli has already done more in big matches and under pressure than Amla has in his entire career, and Kohli is only entering his peak years now. He is levels above Amla when it comes to Limited Overs and it is not disputable.
 
People's only problem is that he is Indian. That is what has given them sleepless nights. If he was Australian, English or South African, the same people would have been singing a different tune.

Now imagine if he was one of us. We would be calling him better than Bradman.

The fact that he is Indian has given people sleepless nights.

Exactly!. Truer words never said before. It was the same issue that Tendulkar had. People will actually ignore Tendulkars superior overall tournament finals and s/f avgs and nitpick on WC finals . In Kohli's case all the improbable chases that he has made possible will be conveniently ignored and the CT Final will now decide his fate. Classic case of Heads I win tails you lose. :))
 
The ball was also swinging in the CT final but Kohli handled it unlike de Villiers. But yes, I know the formula. When Kohli does well, the conditions are good for batting and when he does poorly, the conditions are difficult for batting. Basically the conditions are determined by how Kohli performs.

I am not nit-picking; I am simply giving you examples that if we start micro-analyzing, no batsmen will be faultless, and I brought it up because you stated that Kohli has not chased down big totals in Australia, South Africa, England etc., while conveniently ignoring the fact that no other batsman has the skill, temperament and guts to chase down big totals even at home.

Kohli is already lightyears ahead of everyone when it comes to chasing. Whether he does it in a few select countries or not will not affect how he fares against his competitors because he has already left them behind.

I was talking about you nitpicking deVilliers stats in World cup but arguing Kohl's match winning effort outside Asia as a micro analysis.

Kohli is great in chasing but there are players who have done much better than him away from home and he hasn't taken on bowlers of Starc or McGrath calibre that you put him at no 2.
 
I was talking about you nitpicking deVilliers stats in World cup but arguing Kohl's match winning effort outside Asia as a micro analysis.

Kohli is great in chasing but there are players who have done much better than him away from home and he hasn't taken on bowlers of Starc or McGrath calibre that you put him at no 2.

I nitpicked de Villiers because you nitpicked Kohli, and I wanted to explain that we can do that for every batsman in history. de Villiers is a great ODI player, certainly the second best of his era so far, but Kohli is undoubtedly number one. de Villiers' poor mentality has prevented him from becoming the number one because in terms of talent, he is a genius.
 
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I nitpicked de Villiers because you nitpicked Kohli, and I wanted to explain that we can do that for every batsman in history. de Villiers is a great ODI player, certainly the second best of his era so far, but Kohli is undoubtedly number one. de Villiers' poor mentality has prevented him from becoming the number one because in terms of talent, he is a genius.

The simple Point is just that how can Kohli be regarded as second greatest of all time when

He is yet to perform against best bowlers like Starc ,Steyn or Amir?

Yet to win the WC for his team with bat ?
 
The simple Point is just that how can Kohli be regarded as second greatest of all time when

He is yet to perform against best bowlers like Starc ,Steyn or Amir?

Yet to win the WC for his team with bat ?

Amir? Kohli has singlehandedly destroyed Pakistan every time he has played against Amir except for the CT final.

Steyn is not even a top ODI bowler, and how many times has Starc dismissed him?

These are arbitrary qualifiers that can be used to make any batsman look good/bad. The fact is that only at the age of 28 and before entering his peak years, Kohli is already an ODI ATG and by the time he retires, he will most probably be the GOAT.
 
Amir? Kohli has singlehandedly destroyed Pakistan every time he has played against Amir except for the CT final.

Steyn is not even a top ODI bowler, and how many times has Starc dismissed him?

These are arbitrary qualifiers that can be used to make any batsman look good/bad. The fact is that only at the age of 28 and before entering his peak years, Kohli is already an ODI ATG and by the time he retires, he will most probably be the GOAT.

I would not say Kholi " destroyed " Amir in their previous encounters. Their first two encounters were T20's so Amir could only bowl 4 overs in which he got a leading edge and a close LBW call. The first match of the CT was also one in which Amir did not bowl his full quota. I am not disagreeing that Kholi did not take his team home 3 out of 4 times against Amir but to say he destroyed him is a bit of an exaggeration.
 
I would not say Kholi " destroyed " Amir in their previous encounters. Their first two encounters were T20's so Amir could only bowl 4 overs in which he got a leading edge and a close LBW call. The first match of the CT was also one in which Amir did not bowl his full quota. I am not disagreeing that Kholi did not take his team home 3 out of 4 times against Amir but to say he destroyed him is a bit of an exaggeration.

I didn't say he destroyed Amir, I said he destroyed Pakistan. Kohli vs Amir mini battle is irrelevant compared to the result of the match.
 
I didn't say he destroyed Amir, I said he destroyed Pakistan. Kohli vs Amir mini battle is irrelevant compared to the result of the match.
I thought you were responding to [MENTION=146057]Ted123[/MENTION]'s post of him not being able to get on top of some of the best bowers.
 
It does matter because Amir could only bowl three overs while Kohli was at the crease and could not afford to have overly attacking fields because of the 83 run target.

It is the height of naivety to say "it doesn't matter".

A pacer like Amir bowling 3 overs against Kohli on a green mamba at 140+ Kph pace but still doesn't get him out, speaks volumes of Kohli's skills and status. Kohli congratulates him during the spell and in the post-match presentation which speaks volumes of Kohli's character.

Maybe Amir would've gotten Kohli out if it was an ODI but that still doesn't eliminate the fact that Kohli was the ONLY batsman in that Indian innings to weather the storm and play out Amir at HIS BEST.
This is why I said it doesn't matter; because Kohli played enough balls against him. This clearly debunks your statement that Kohli is rubbish against lateral movement.
 
It does matter because Amir could only bowl three overs while Kohli was at the crease and could not afford to have overly attacking fields because of the 83 run target.

It is the height of naivety to say "it doesn't matter".

Also good luck defending 83 in a T20 against India's mammoth batting with defensive fields.
And you call me "naive" :))

Some Misbah fans are just..............

:salute:salute:salute
 
And by the way, Kohli did not 'choke' in the 2011 World Cup final.

He was 21 at that time, playing in a World Cup final in front of the huge expectations of the home crowd and India were chasing 275 which was a big total at that time.

India were in trouble at 30/2 when he walked out and they had just lost Tendulkar, much to the disbelief of the crowd. There was pin-drop silence in the stadium and the pressure on Kohli and the other Indian batsmen was huge.

His partnership with Gambhir was crucial and played a huge part in ensuring that India did not fall apart. Those 35 runs that he scored were worth more than a 60-70 considering the context and the circumstances.

Kohli has already done more in big matches and under pressure than Amla has in his entire career, and Kohli is only entering his peak years now. He is levels above Amla when it comes to Limited Overs and it is not disputable.

Thank You. Couldn't agree more with this. Not many people get this.
 
Kohli has also won games for his team in ICC tournaments, so has Amla. Kohli, however, has choked massively in the four biggest matches of his career. When he was being carried by the likes of Sachin and Dhoni, his failures were masked over but in recent times, they have cost India two ICC trophies.

2011 WC semi-final.
2011 WC final.
2015 WC semi-final.
2017 CT final.

As for Ponting, he's definitely a great pressure player but ABD is not the choker people make him out to be either. Unlike Kohli, AB himself has done his job in the big matches but his team-mates haven't done their part. In everything else, AB is the better batsman which is why I have his #1.



Top five for me. Behind ABD, Sachin, Ponting and level with Amla.


How many icc knockout games has AB won ? At least Kohli has some. Absolutely hilarious that an Amla fan is calling Kohli a choker :))). As if Amla is an amazing pressure player lol
 
How many icc knockout games has AB won ? At least Kohli has some. Absolutely hilarious that an Amla fan is calling Kohli a choker :))). As if Amla is an amazing pressure player lol

Both Amla and de Villers have won a grand total of zero knockout games for SA, and every time they have been up against India in a knockout game, Kohli has left them in his dust, but they are clutch players and Kohli is a choker.
 
Thank You. Couldn't agree more with this. Not many people get this.

Not to forget he got out to a brilliant catch. He was unlucky and deserved a 50+ score, but the way he absorbed pressure that day showed the world that he has character.
 
Yes he is but its a fact that he is weak against swing and seam and lucky that he played most of his cricket after 2010.. I think he would have averaged in early 40s if he had played in the 90s.. the fast bowlers were much superior that time.. If his struggles against seam/swing continues and AB does something big in next World Cup then surely AB will overtake him..
 
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