Is Virat Kohli on the brink of ATG status in Tests subject to his litmus test in England?

[Mamoon]

Is scoring in Australia a big deal?

It’s a bigger deal than England because the Australian pace attack is very hostile. Even on flat wickets, you have to be on top of your game to counter Starc, Cummins and previously Johnson etc.

Younis’ knock at Sydney > Younis’ knock at the Oval, if we ignore the stakes which were higher at the Oval.

Kohli will have to do something really special in England to topple his four hundreds in one series in Australia.

Once the ball stops swinging it’s a good place to score. The English bowlers don’t have enough pace to power through a lineup.

 

[Madplayer]

Even the best test batsman of this era - Smith won't score on green mambas with Rabada,Philander and Ngidi bowling. If that's your criteria, then nobody from the current generation will qualify. Maybe Williamson but that's it.

Why are all of kohli fans getting defensive here? Lol its hilarious. I just described an event. I didnt set any criterias or make any comparisons.

You can disagree with me and say that there was a lot of lateral movement, the pitch was green and all If you think i was lying.

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] gone into hiding have we?
[MENTION=57422]sarfi[/MENTION]BabarHarris told us that Kohli has no impact in tests. How is today's innings for impact) ?

 

[Madplayer]

Couple more comfortable cameos from the other top order batsmen and India would have won comfortably.

We are talking about a potential ATG here. Lets not forget that.

 

[Aman]

He could give India a lead ) [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] where you @ son.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Why are all of kohli fans getting defensive here? Lol its hilarious. I just described an event. I didnt set any criterias or make any comparisons.

You can disagree with me and say that there was a lot of lateral movement, the pitch was green and all If you think i was lying.

I'm a kohli fan now? I'm just saying that there is no all conditions batsman playing test cricket right now. Kohli has his flaws and is particularly vulnerable against good swing bowling. I never denied that.

 

[Sin Nombre]

We are talking about a potential ATG here. Lets not forget that.

And he matched the other ATG in AB, and outperformed other potentials in Amla and Pujara in the toughest conditions on Day 4.

Let's not forget that.

 

[Slog]

Anyways the innings tells us nothing new

We all know he has the ability to score in such conditions as in Cape Town this match. And he has improved he has started to put up daddy hundreds in recent times,

But he has looked at sea against lateral movement throughout his career and that hasn't changed.

Obviously as some ******* are quick to point out other greater batsman than Kohli also have had some chinks. But the fact is that despite the chinks they have had occasions where they have done well.

For eg. people talk about Ponting's struggles against spin. But thats not true. He averages 100+ against Pakistan in Pakistan and UAE whereas against Muralitharan in Sri Lanka he averages 50 with 2 centuries. Even in India where he has struggled he had one big series and has a century and multiple fifties.

However Kohli has not managed anything close to above. He has struggled against lateral movement period. And in England his record is reminiscent of a #9 or #10. Obviously if he can do well in typical South African conditions consistently (not Cape Town) and post one big tour of England, his reputation will improve in this regard. But as of now, he has not shown the ability to do that

 

[Madplayer]

I'm a kohli fan now? I'm just saying that there is no all conditions batsman playing test cricket right now. Kohli has his flaws and is particularly vulnerable against good swing bowling. I never denied that.

Exactly. I agree. So i dont see what the problem is with my earlier post.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kohli scores runs, pitch is flat or attack is poor, thats the typical logic of some posters.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is a better batsman than Ponting and Lara. I believe he will overcome his struggles against lateral movement by the end of his career.

We are witnessing a player who will go down as one of the top 5 best batsmen in history.

White ball GOAT + a Test legend.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Is scoring in Australia a big deal?

English team says yes.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Kohli scores runs, pitch is flat or attack is poor, thats the typical logic of some posters.

You can replace Kohli with Ashwin for the same posters.

 

[Madplayer]

And he matched the other ATG in AB, and outperformed other potentials in Amla and Pujara in the toughest conditions on Day 4.

Let's not forget that.

True. Amla and AB have their own shortcomings and didnt perform well just like kohli's little cameo wasnt good enough.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Anyways the innings tells us nothing new

We all know he has the ability to score in such conditions as in Cape Town this match. And he has improved he has started to put up daddy hundreds in recent times,

But he has looked at sea against lateral movement throughout his career and that hasn't changed.

Obviously as some ******* are quick to point out other greater batsman than Kohli also have had some chinks. But the fact is that despite the chinks they have had occasions where they have done well.

For eg. people talk about Ponting's struggles against spin. But thats not true. He averages 100+ against Pakistan in Pakistan and UAE whereas against Muralitharan in Sri Lanka he averages 50 with 2 centuries. Even in India where he has struggled he had one big series and has a century and multiple fifties.

However Kohli has not managed anything close to above. He has struggled against lateral movement period. And in England his record is reminiscent of a #9 or #10. Obviously if he can do well in typical South African conditions consistently (not Cape Town) and post one big tour of England, his reputation will improve in this regard. But as of now, he has not shown the ability to do that

Neither of Kohlis 2 100s have come at Cape Town.

 

[Slog]

Neither of Kohlis 2 100s have come at Cape Town.

i trust you are smart enough to see the point of the post

my point is that Shafiq's 100 at Cape Town and Kohli's 100 in Centurion are both in conditions suitable to them and not typical Saffer conditions

 

[Slog]

It’s a bigger deal than England because the Australian pace attack is very hostile. Even on flat wickets, you have to be on top of your game to counter Starc, Cummins and previously Johnson etc.

Younis’ knock at Sydney > Younis’ knock at the Oval, if we ignore the stakes which were higher at the Oval.

Kohli will have to do something really special in England to topple his four hundreds in one series in Australia.

Once the ball stops swinging it’s a good place to score. The English bowlers don’t have enough pace to power through a lineup.

So Azhar Ali is on his way to being a great considering he absolutely hammered Australia on his first tour

 

[jnaveen1980]

Having watched lot of players from India over the years Kohli will be the closest to Sachin. An attacking batsman regardless of conditions much like how Sachin was best part of his career. Even in this innings his strike rate is over 70

 

[Sin Nombre]

True. Amla and AB have their own shortcomings and didnt perform well just like kohli's little cameo wasnt good enough.

Fair.

As long as you are consistent, I have no issues.

No modern batsmen is technically perfect but AB/Kohli are game changers.

 

[cricketjoshila]

i trust you are smart enough to see the point of the post

my point is that Shafiq's 100 at Cape Town and Kohli's 100 in Centurion are both in conditions suitable to them and not typical Saffer conditions

He has a century in Johannesburg as well.

 

[Slog]

Lol one thing is sure - Kohli is in a different league to Amla

 

[Madplayer]

i trust you are smart enough to see the point of the post

my point is that Shafiq's 100 at Cape Town and Kohli's 100 in Centurion are both in conditions suitable to them and not typical Saffer conditions

Dont say that because they want you to say the pitch is green and there was a great deal of swing and seam.

If you dont say that, they would bring in smith, root , williamson and say that they arent good enough in swing and seaming conditions too. Even if you dont neccassrily disagree with that.

 

[Mamoon]

So Azhar Ali is on his way to being a great considering he absolutely hammered Australia on his first tour

That’s the only thing he has done in his career so far. He has been nothing special otherwise. Ijaz Ahmed hammered an Australian attack that was better than the one Kohli and Azhar faced. Doesn’t make him a great.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Ponting failed on turners and he's still considered an ATG isn't he? Kohli has done very well i every country except England i.e. averages minimum around ~44 . Even his West Indies average is only low because he did not score in his debut series. last time around he scored a double ton and averaged around 60. His only real failure has been England and some on here are nitpicking like there's no tomorrow ) By thatlogic even Miandad is not an ATG with an average below 40 in OZ,SL and Windies.

 

[Sin Nombre]

So Azhar Ali is on his way to being a great considering he absolutely hammered Australia on his first tour

He is on his way to becoming a test great opener for sure. Keep up it for a few more years and I would put him at the same level as Cook.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol one thing is sure - Kohli is in a different league to Amla

Overall yes, but not yet in Tests. However, it’s a matter of time. His ceiling is much higher.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We just have to keep using filters. He is going to smash all these filters over the next few years. We will be running out of it. Then we will have to use filters like when a left arm bowler bowls when the temperature is 78 degrees and humidity is 80% he doesn't play well on third day . ONly issue he has is shot selection when is new to the crease. Punter had that issue as well.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So Azhar Ali is on his way to being a great considering he absolutely hammered Australia on his first tour

Its difficult to consider anyone a great if he doesnt even avg 50.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Virat Kohli stats:
First 11 100s: Dismissed below 150 nine times
Next 10 100s: Never dismissed below 150

 

[Mamoon]

We just have to keep using filters. He is going to smash all these filters over the next few years. We will be running out of it. Then we will have to use filters like when a left arm bowler bowls when the temperature is 78 degrees and humidity is 80% he doesn't play well on third day . ONly issue he has is shot selection when is new to the crease. Punter had that issue as well.

True, he is not a coward like Pujara or Azhar. He will look to dominate from ball one but at times, he overdoes it.

Needs to find the right balance and I am sure he will.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Its difficult to consider anyone a great if he doesnt even avg 50.

He is an opener - 45+ over 100 tests is greatness.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ponting failed on turners and he's still considered an ATG isn't he? Kohli has done very well i every country except England i.e. averages minimum around ~44 . Even his West Indies average is only low because he did not score in his debut series. last time around he scored a double ton and averaged around 60. His only real failure has been England and some on here are nitpicking like there's no tomorrow ) By thatlogic even Miandad is not an ATG with an average below 40 in OZ,SL and Windies.

Sanga avgs below 40 in WI SA and India.

Gary Sobers avgs in 20s in NZ

Viv Richards avgs in 20s in NZ

 

[jnaveen1980]

Lara averages 33 in INdia hehe

 

[cricketjoshila]

He is an opener - 45+ over 100 tests is greatness.

He has played 62 tests not 100 and not all his innings were as opener.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lara averages 33 in INdia hehe

Next we will talk about Kohli having to score a century in Sharjah on a total solar eclipse with floodlights off.

 

[Sin Nombre]

He has played 62 tests not 100 and not all his innings were as opener.

The question was not whether he is a great now (he is not) but is on his way to becoming one. Keep it up for another 40 tests which is a lot and it would be hard to argue otherwise.

 

[Dead Ball]

Ponting failed on turners and he's still considered an ATG isn't he? Kohli has done very well i every country except England i.e. averages minimum around ~44 . Even his West Indies average is only low because he did not score in his debut series. last time around he scored a double ton and averaged around 60. His only real failure has been England and some on here are nitpicking like there's no tomorrow ) By thatlogic even Miandad is not an ATG with an average below 40 in OZ,SL and Windies.

Only SRT Dravid and Gavaskar have more 100's then Kohli outside the SC against non minnows. He is now level with Miandad at 9.

Its unreal that people are still whining about his overseas performance.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The question was not whether he is a great now (he is not) but is on his way to becoming one. Keep it up for another 40 tests which is a lot and it would be hard to argue otherwise.

How many innings has he opened? How many of his runs have come as an opener?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Since when did England become a litmus test for greatness? Kallis has low average there but is still comfortably an ATG.

 

[Varun]

IMO this was one of his best test centuries:

* Away from home in South Africa
* Came in at 28/2 facing a first innings trail of 330+
* Kept losing wickets at the other end

 

[Mamoon]

The question was not whether he is a great now (he is not) but is on his way to becoming one. Keep it up for another 40 tests which is a lot and it would be hard to argue otherwise.

He is an impactless player. A substandard batsman who is heavily overrated because he is the only prolific Test batsman in the country.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He is an impactless player. A substandard batsman who is heavily overrated because he is the only prolific Test batsman in the country.

Azhar Ali isnt a substandard batsman. He is good solid test batsman.

 

[Mamoon]

Azhar Ali isnt a substandard batsman. He is good solid test batsman.

Solid, good, decent, substandard etc. are just words. Bottom line is that he is not world class and he is not heading for greatness. He is a deaf king among blind men.

 

[Slog]

He has a century in Johannesburg as well.

check scorecard for that match

India collapsed in first innings and Kohli scored but like this match pitch wasnt filled with demons. Saffer scred 450 or sth in 4th innings

 

[Slog]

Ponting failed on turners and he's still considered an ATG isn't he? Kohli has done very well i every country except England i.e. averages minimum around ~44 . Even his West Indies average is only low because he did not score in his debut series. last time around he scored a double ton and averaged around 60. His only real failure has been England and some on here are nitpicking like there's no tomorrow ) By thatlogic even Miandad is not an ATG with an average below 40 in OZ,SL and Windies.

Again - Ponting didnt fail on turners

His record against Muralitharan in Sri Lanka (best opposition spinner of the generation by a mile) and Pakistan in UAE and Pakistan is actually pretty good.

He just failed in India but even then he had a good series once where he scored a century and some 50s. Kohli doesnt even have that right now. If he has one big tour of England and his overall England record is still poor at end of career then he wouldnr receive as much flak

 

[Slog]

That’s the only thing he has done in his career so far. He has been nothing special otherwise. Ijaz Ahmed hammered an Australian attack that was better than the one Kohli and Azhar faced. Doesn’t make him a great.

He has helped his country draw a Test series in England and not averaged in teens

 

[Buffet]

check scorecard for that match

India collapsed in first innings and Kohli scored but like this match pitch wasnt filled with demons. Saffer scred 450 or sth in 4th innings

It was very difficult to play in the first 2 innings for both teams. Pitch eased out later to make it easy for both teams in 2nd inning. That's why India and SA, both didn't score big in their first inning. Indian batted first and it was a gun knock by Kohli and probably the best I have seen from him when ball was doing a lot.

 

[Mamoon]

He has helped his country draw a Test series in England and not averaged in teens

Also scored a half-century in a tournament final.

 

[cricketjoshila]

check scorecard for that match

India collapsed in first innings and Kohli scored but like this match pitch wasnt filled with demons. Saffer scred 450 or sth in 4th innings

SA was bowled out for 244 in the 1st innings that too due to a rear guard fifty by by Philander and no one from India scored a fifty in the 1st innings.

The pitch had plenty of help for fast bowlers on the first 2 days. Kallis ABDV both struggled in the 1st innings and Faf was barely able to score.

Even on this wicket Bumrah is making Saffers hop around.

 

[Slog]

It was very difficult to play in the first 2 innings for both teams. Pitch eased out later to make it easy for both teams in 2nd inning. That's why India and SA, both didn't score big in their first inning. Indian batted first and it was a gun knock by Kohli and probably the best I have seen from him when ball was doing a lot.

then im mistaken since i remember the run fest later

well done then

 

[Buffet]

then im mistaken since i remember the run fest later

well done then

It was literally run fest in 2nd inning for both teams, but very hard to bat in first innings. I was disappointed with run fest nature of pitch later to be honest. I don't rate Kohli's knock in the second inning. I think he got close to ton in 2nd inning as well and other Indians scored as well.

 

[shaz619]

If Kohli scores a double here, [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] is going to go into hiding for a year )

Not everyone takes cricket that seriously, you must have so much free time

 

[shaz619]

He has done alright in SA, England will be his biggest test

 

[Bilal7]

A hundred at a SR of 65+ when wickets have tumbling on the other end. This is what you call a champion batsman.

Lol, this is no different from the many hundreds he has scored in Asia. Was owned by Morkel and Philander in the first test, as expected.

 

[Bilal7]

IMO this was one of his best test centuries:

* Away from home in South Africa
* Came in at 28/2 facing a first innings trail of 330+
* Kept losing wickets at the other end

* Away from home but not any different to a home pitch.
*Pujara would have scored a double here had that suicidal run-out not taken place.
*What do you expect when you're batting with guys like Rohit on the other end?

 

[Varun]

* Away from home but not any different to a home pitch.
*Pujara would have scored a double here had that suicidal run-out not taken place.
*What do you expect when you're batting with guys like Rohit on the other end?

1. You have no idea what test matches in India are like. Pacers like Rabada and Ngidi are completely neutralized, yet here they continued to be probing against our batters. We wouldn't have been reduced to 5/160 on a deck that was "not any different to a home pitch".

2. Would've, Could've, Should've. The guy just bats out dots and goes nowhere. In a way he reminds me of a few other batsmen I've seen playing for other countries over the years: Sami Aslam, Ed Cowan and Michael Carberry.

3. Rohit, though frail, is just one guy. Kohli isn't Lara and the Indian batting line-up isn't the West Indies.

 

[jnaveen1980]

* Away from home but not any different to a home pitch.
*Pujara would have scored a double here had that suicidal run-out not taken place.
*What do you expect when you're batting with guys like Rohit on the other end?

If it were Home pitch Ashwin would have bowled them out twice by now . Why didn't he do?

 

[Ab Fan]

Fantastic inning..

 

[Chrish]

Great knock !!!

 

[Bilal7]

If it were Home pitch Ashwin would have bowled them out twice by now . Why didn't he do?

He took four wickets in the first innings and the second innings is still going on. Had Jadeja played here, both of them would have been lethal.

1. You have no idea what test matches in India are like. Pacers like Rabada and Ngidi are completely neutralized, yet here they continued to be probing against our batters. We wouldn't have been reduced to 5/160 on a deck that was "not any different to a home pitch".


2. Would've, Could've, Should've. The guy just bats out dots and goes nowhere. In a way he reminds me of a few other batsmen I've seen playing for other countries over the years: Sami Aslam, Ed Cowan and Michael Carberry.

3. Rohit, though frail, is just one guy. Kohli isn't Lara and the Indian batting line-up isn't the West Indies.

The two dumb run-outs from each side helped keep the first innings totals low as well.

Pujara is a very good batsman. He's been disrespected far too much because he's not as quick as the others. Which is strange because Rahul Dravid, a guy who is renowned for batting out dots, gets a lot of respect in India.

It was certainly a very fine knock today but it does nothing to enhance Kohli's reputation against the moving ball.

 

[Varun]

Pujara is a very good batsman. He's been disrespected far too much because he's not as quick as the others. Which is strange because Rahul Dravid, a guy who is renowned for batting out dots, gets a lot of respect in India.

Nobody is worried about the pace of his scoring in a test innings. Dravid turned on the blockathon and actually went for the long-haul while Pujara usually gets out for 27 (93).

 

[Ab Fan]

Will go down as ATG in tests. Already 21 hundreds.

 

[Chrish]

Will go down as ATG in tests. Already 21 hundreds.

Needs more of these iconic knocks. His best effort after the Australian series.

 

[jusarrived]

Lol, this is no different from the many hundreds he has scored in Asia. Was owned by Morkel and Philander in the first test, as expected.

The only guy whos got owned repeatedly when the ball is moving is Amla .
Averages 80+ in Centurion the flattest track in SA , inflating his stats .

 

[Chief Destroyer]

A better test player than in ODIs.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Next we will talk about Kohli having to score a century in Sharjah on a total solar eclipse with floodlights off.

This seriously made me lol. Another criteria I keep hearing here is he has to win his team a world championship and then be will be an atg. Someone really needs to define expectations of atg and set it in stone somewhere here. Or tomorrow I have no doubt I'm going to hear another ridiculous expectation that he has to play till he is 50 and still score hundreds to be an atg.

 

[Buffet]

Kohli has 9 tons outside Asia in 26 tests so far. Only 4 Asian batsmen have more than 9 tons outside Asia and most of the those tons were not scored on green mamba. Not an ATG for me , but I feel many posters put bar too high for Kohli.

 

[Mueez]

I really hope for Kohli that he gets some daddy hundreds in England.

 

[SamNJ]

He turned into an atg for me today.
Now repeat this in 2nd innings and win this game son.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Apart from smith everyone is behind Kohli since ABDV picks and chooses and plays. If you look at overall stats for all formats he is far above everyone including Smith. His dominating batting style seperates him from others. Only ABDV is above him in that respect.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kohli has 9 tons outside Asia in 26 tests so far. Only 4 Asian batsmen have more than 9 tons outside Asia and most of the those tons were not scored on green mamba. Not an ATG for me , but I feel many posters put bar too high for Kohli.

Hardly anyone is ATG after 50-60 tests. Unless you are a Tendulkar or Warne or Wasim. But Kohli is on his way to become one.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kohli has 9 tons outside Asia in 26 tests so far. Only 4 Asian batsmen have more than 9 tons outside Asia and most of the those tons were not scored on green mamba. Not an ATG for me , but I feel many posters put bar too high for Kohli.

Wonder how many of Sanga's hundreds on green mambas.

 

[Itachi]

Sometimes one should just appreciate an innings as it is even though you may dislike the player.

Many whining people here and the bias attitude they show is shocking. I hope that is restricted to the online persona only because if it is in reality, there'll be greater conflicts.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Already in top 4

 

[Ab Fan]

Needs more of these iconic knocks. His best effort after the Australian series.

Yes, he will get that as he is just halfway his career. That is why said will go down as ATG..

 

[Ab Fan]

Wonder how many of Sanga's hundreds on green mambas.

Sanga also has some high quality knocks in green mamba I recall one against NZ and Eng.

Of course, my point in only with context to Sanga.

 

[Ab Fan]

As already said, I believe when you consider overall( all formats), Smith, kohli and AB will go down as three best bats from 2000s+ post debutant.

Root and Williamson are well behind while Amla also has a case but he lacks charisma of an ATG.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Kohli is a better batsman than Ponting and Lara. I believe he will overcome his struggles against lateral movement by the end of his career.

We are witnessing a player who will go down as one of the top 5 best batsmen in history.

White ball GOAT + a Test legend.

Kohli as an ATG test bat and GOAT limited overs bat. However, suggesting that he is overall better than Ponting and Lara at this stage of his career is exaggeration to be honest.

Lara is widely renowned to be the best player of spin (non Asian bat) in spinning conditions. Can Kohli become the best player of seam and swing (Asian bat) of this era?

Ponting is a champion ODI bat with multiple championships under his belt and the best peak of a batsman in my opinion. Can Kohli achieve multiple championships or better that peak of Ponting?

Maybe Kohli can and will end up going down as the best bat of this era by a long shot or maybe not, all I'm saying is that its too early to predict as to what may or may not happen.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli as an ATG test bat and GOAT limited overs bat. However, suggesting that he is overall better than Ponting and Lara at this stage of his career is exaggeration to be honest.

Lara is widely renowned to be the best player of spin (non Asian bat) in spinning conditions. Can Kohli become the best player of seam and swing (Asian bat) of this era?

Ponting is a champion ODI bat with multiple championships under his belt and the best peak of a batsman in my opinion. Can Kohli achieve multiple championships or better that peak of Ponting?

<B>Maybe Kohli can and will end up going down as the best bat of this era by a long shot </B>or maybe not, all I'm saying is that its too early to predict as to what may or may not happen.

If this happens, then he will be superior to both Lara and Ponting. But I don't see this happening.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli as an ATG test bat and GOAT limited overs bat. However, suggesting that he is overall better than Ponting and Lara at this stage of his career is exaggeration to be honest.

Lara is widely renowned to be the best player of spin (non Asian bat) in spinning conditions. Can Kohli become the best player of seam and swing (Asian bat) of this era?

Ponting is a champion ODI bat with multiple championships under his belt and the best peak of a batsman in my opinion. Can Kohli achieve multiple championships or better that peak of Ponting?

Maybe Kohli can and will end up going down as the best bat of this era by a long shot or maybe not, all I'm saying is that its too early to predict as to what may or may not happen.

Only patient and boring players tend to be good in swinging conditions like Dravid. Leave lot of balls and patiently wear bowlers out.Kohli will eventually get there. But dominating batsmen may make mistakes there.