What's new

Is Younis Khan an all-time great in Test cricket?

Honestly speaking, I'm pretty sure most of you guys haven't seen a more nice person than Younis Khan in the cricket ground. There are some people as good as him, but better than him? Very, very few (if they exist).
 
The best test performer we had after Miandad. Only he can surpass him becomes the greatest Pakistani batsman.
 
Not an all time great IMO, but one of the best players of spin bowling i've seen.
 
Hitman said:
Honestly speaking, I'm pretty sure most of you guys haven't seen a more nice person than Younis Khan in the cricket ground. There are some people as good as him, but better than him? Very, very few (if they exist).
Click to expand...

There have been quite a few nice people in Pakistani dressing room but what set Younus apart is his ability to engage and bond well with the emerging players. He has that personality and demeanour that youngsters feel comfortable with and they can really open up and share their thoughts in confidence. He will make a great coach one day but that has to wait. Lets just hope he can prolong his test career as long as possible ::moakram
 
farazaidi said:
There have been quite a few nice people in Pakistani dressing room but what set Younus apart is his ability to engage and bond well with the emerging players. He has that personality and demeanour that youngsters feel comfortable with and they can really open up and share their thoughts in confidence. He will make a great coach one day but that has to wait. Lets just hope he can prolong his test career as long as possible ::moakram
Click to expand...

Could not retain captaincy if he is such a loveable care bear?
 
Definitely better than overrated blokes like Sangakkara for me, but just 4 centuries outside the subcontinent(without considering Zimbabwe) and an overall average in the said place of 41ish is what makes me rate him a rung or two below the true ATG's.
 
Last edited:
Is Younis Khan considered an all time great?

If so is he a top, mid or lower tier ATG?

Or perhaps do you think he is yet to be ATG material but simply on the verge of reaching such status?

In my view, he is an ATG but I'm undecided whether he is a lower or mid tier type. He is certainly not a top tier ATG such as Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Dravid, Ponting and etc.

To average 40+ in AUS, 50+ in ENG, 60+ in NZ is special, and he's also scored a century against each playing nation.

In addition, he converts just over 50% of his half centuries into hundreds and out of all these hundreds, 1 in 3 of these have been 150+ scores which really is phenomenal.

What I find most remarkable is his consistent averages batting from 1st to 4th innings at 50+ (except for his 3rd innings at 49.36). YK's 4th innings average never ceases to amaze me where he holds a stunning average of 60.59.

It is one thing to score runs and another thing to have impact and he's been able to show both with his consistent SR of over 50 in his test career. He has stepped up when his team in his adversity on many occasions; finest example being the one more recently with the series clinching 170+ in the final test in SL last year, but my favourite innings of his came in a losing cause on a Newlands green top where he and Shafiq resisted SA's momentum (39 for 4) to put on a double hundred partnership and earn a ton for themselves in the process. No doubt YK was a genuine match winner.

To conclude, in order to be globally recognised as one of the modern ATGs he needs to score heavily in AUS and ENG in the tours coming up and it is fantastic to hear he is eager to score a hundred in AUS, in which he has yet to accomplish. I do have concerns with how he will stand up in England against the moving ball particularly because he won't have played test cricket for so many months but I have confidence with Australia's flatter pitches these days, the opportunities for run scoring are there. Let us see what the final chapter of test cricket holds for him.
 
sarfarazrules said:
If so is he a top, mid or lower tier ATG?

Or perhaps do you think he is yet to be ATG material but simply on the verge of reaching such status?

In my view, he is an ATG but I'm undecided whether he is a lower or mid tier type. He is certainly not a top tier ATG such as Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Dravid, Ponting and etc.

To average 40+ in AUS, 50+ in ENG, 60+ in NZ is special, and he's also scored a century against each playing nation.

In addition, he converts just over 50% of his half centuries into hundreds and out of all these hundreds, 1 in 3 of these have been 150+ scores which really is phenomenal.

What I find most remarkable is his consistent averages batting from 1st to 4th innings at 50+ (except for his 3rd innings at 49.36). YK's 4th innings average never ceases to amaze me where he holds a stunning average of 60.59.

It is one thing to score runs and another thing to have impact and he's been able to show both with his consistent SR of over 50 in his test career. He has stepped up when his team in his adversity on many occasions; finest example being the one more recently with the series clinching 170+ in the final test in SL last year, but my favourite innings of his came in a losing cause on a Newlands green top where he and Shafiq resisted SA's momentum (39 for 4) to put on a double hundred partnership and earn a ton for themselves in the process. No doubt YK was a genuine match winner.

To conclude, in order to be globally recognised as one of the modern ATGs he needs to score heavily in AUS and ENG in the tours coming up and it is fantastic to hear he is eager to score a hundred in AUS, in which he has yet to accomplish. I do have concerns with how he will stand up in England against the moving ball particularly because he won't have played test cricket for so many months but I have confidence with Australia's flatter pitches these days, the opportunities for run scoring are there. Let us see what the final chapter of test cricket holds for him.
Click to expand...

He isn't yet but he can be as you have stated.

How, there are away tours and if he performs, not just does his one hundred and remaining low scores bit but goes out there and dominates attacks, he will get global acclaim. He needs to win us a series on his own or play a legendary innings that people will give reference to later.

Otherwise, his career will be no different to other Pakistani greats, notably Yousuf and Inzimam - Pakistani greats but not even in any lowe tier of ATG's.
 
Acricketfan said:
Only if he does in England and Australia.
Click to expand...

No...he isn't yet.while comparing Dravid & Younis i could trace out that Younis
was convincingly behind with Dravid having much longevity, much evenly balanced record in every nation, 'much high no: of' and better impact scores
etc etc in test cricket.To add to that his one day record was way lagging behind Dravid, i would say 2 dimensionally. His avg: in 1 dayers was too lower.
And to add to that his individual avg:s in major & 'vs major' countries are even
mediocre which means that even that mediocre 31 is boosted by performances vs minnows or performances in minnow countries or at the least
severely un evenly distributed or a combination of all the 3.
So over all Younis is not an ATG
 
Pete Rose said:
No
Click to expand...

I guess if he was a legit ATG we wouldn't see one such thread every week either. The very reason threads are posted to esquire about the status shows he's fallen short. Same with Kallis as an all rounder. All the threads are aside, he's comfortably ignored in most AR discussions.
 
No.Not even AB, Amla, Cook...AB is already an odi great though.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
I guess if he was a legit ATG we wouldn't see one such thread every week either. The very reason threads are posted to esquire about the status shows he's fallen short. Same with Kallis as an all rounder. All the threads are aside, he's comfortably ignored in most AR discussions.
Click to expand...

Predictably these threads meander to some kind of 'negotiated' point of view....
a consolation prize of sorts: pakistani ATG.
For the record, I dont consider him a Pakistani ATG as well. through no fault of his own, his sample of tests in South Africa, England, and Australia is too short.
As has been said already, he can try to aim for some greatness in 2016. I have my doubts at his age.
 
His case is same as Sangakkara. He went out and scored lots of runs in his final dig in the countries you mentioned. If Younis can do that he can be in contention for the lower tier ATG list but not a certainty even if he excels though.
 
Not yet.

He may get there, if he doesn't suffer problems in England and Australia and plays a few legendary knocks.

He's like Shivernarine Chanderpaul.

Scores runs, but usually the impact is not meaningful.

A couple of away knocks might twist it.
 
Not even close. Arguably second best Test batsman produced by Pakistan, and not even in the top 5 when you consider ODIs.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
.

Scores runs, but usually the impact is not meaningful.

A couple of away knocks might twist it.
Click to expand...
Thats harsh and perhaps no fair. His runs have been instrumental in our domination at home and in the recent series in Sri Lanka.
He has quality knocks.
Now what we need are quality knocks in 2016.
 
Mamoon said:
Not even close. Arguably second best Test batsman produced by Pakistan, and not even in the top 5 when you consider ODIs.
Click to expand...

In weight of runs maybe.
i would 'argue' that Pakistan best three are Miandad, Malik, and Inzi... in that order
 
rooster said:
His case is same as Sangakkara. He went out and scored lots of runs in his final dig in the countries you mentioned. If Younis can do that he can be in contention for the lower tier ATG list but not a certainty even if he excels though.
Click to expand...

Sanga should be an ATG.A prolific run scorer in both formats( preferably tests) and avg of 58 diminishes that factor.Brilliant stats in WC and a memorable 192 in Australia makes him in that league..
 
Pete Rose said:
Thats harsh and perhaps no fair. His runs have been instrumental in our domination at home and in the recent series in Sri Lanka.
He has quality knocks.
Now what we need are quality knocks in 2016.
Click to expand...

Yes a bit harsh, but I am a bit harsh at rating most Pakistani cricketers.

I feel Imran was the real thing, so was Wasim (who underperformed according to his genuine ability), Inzi (who was terrible when it came to touring foreign countries) and Yousaf ( who I feel had a great year, but most of the times was not so great against swing).

I don't see how Younis Khan is any different. He just hasn't been tested enough in swinging conditions.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Not yet.

He may get there, if he doesn't suffer problems in England and Australia and plays a few legendary knocks.

He's like Shivernarine Chanderpaul.

Scores runs, but usually the impact is not meaningful.

A couple of away knocks might twist it.
Click to expand...

That was true up until 2014. He was coasting along with a hundred every now and then, but the way he dominated Australia in our most important series for a long time put him well ahead of the likes of Inzamam and MoYo in the Test format.
 
Ab Fan said:
Sanga should be an ATG.A prolific run scorer in both formats( preferably tests) and avg of 58 diminishes that factor.Brilliant stats in WC and a memorable 192 in Australia makes him in that league..
Click to expand...

Big runs = very good
Big runs home and away = great
Big runs home and away translating to wins = ATG.
 
Pete Rose said:
Big runs = very good
Big runs home and away = great
Big runs home and away translating to wins = ATG.
Click to expand...

It's never that easy if you play for middle tier team. Sanga at times did make SL look as one of top teams. SL reached WC final in 07 and 11 and I guess SL did won somewhere in T20s or CT..In tests too, he has done enough to be mentioned somewhere down in that league of Dravid/Kallis.
 
Pete Rose said:
Big runs home and away translating to wins = ATG.
Click to expand...

A bit unjustified I would say. Why should a batsman be penalized for his batsmanship just because the other 10 weren't up to the mark to win test matches? Brian Lara scored 688 runs in the three test series against Sri Lanka in 2001, a hefty 280 odd more than the second best but the scoreline at the end read Sri Lanka 3-0 West Indies. Would you dispute that Lara's performance wasn't at an ATG level?
 
If he has a Dravid like series in the UK, and then a not so Dravid like series in AUS

Basically avg 50+ in AUS & ENG, then he will go down as a legend IMO.
 
Pete Rose said:
In weight of runs maybe.
i would 'argue' that Pakistan best three are Miandad, Malik, and Inzi... in that order
Click to expand...

Yes, that's why it's arguable. He is not everyone's cup of tea and understandably so. Overall, it'll be Miandad, Anwar, Inzamam, Malik, MoYo, Younis for me in that order.
 
Ab Fan said:
It's never that easy if you play for middle tier team. Sanga at times did make SL look as one of top teams. SL reached WC final in 07 and 11 and I guess SL did won somewhere in T20s or CT..In tests too, he has done enough to be mentioned somewhere down in that league of Dravid/Kallis.
Click to expand...

Yes. I agree. Because wins in test matches especially require a team effort and a good bowling attack.
yeah Sanga in same neighborhood as the other 2.
 
Berserk_Marshal_ said:
A bit unjustified I would say. Why should a batsman be penalized for his batsmanship just because the other 10 weren't up to the mark to win test matches? Brian Lara scored 688 runs in the three test series against Sri Lanka in 2001, a hefty 280 odd more than the second best but the scoreline at the end read Sri Lanka 3-0 West Indies. Would you dispute that Lara's performance wasn't at an ATG level?
Click to expand...
I dont call performances as ATG. A body of work defines greatness. Lara's performance in that series is worthy of an ATG batsman.
An ATG performance....is a bit of an oxymoron.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, that's why it's arguable. He is not everyone's cup of tea and understandably so. Overall, it'll be Miandad, Anwar, Inzamam, Malik, MoYo, Younis for me in that order.
Click to expand...

yes...fair call on anwar....especially considering the dross that followed.
 
Pete Rose said:
I dont call performances as ATG. A body of work defines greatness. Lara's performance in that series is worthy of an ATG batsman.
An ATG performance....is a bit of an oxymoron.
Click to expand...

Not really, great performances can be very much recognized irrespective of the cricketer's long term standing in the game. There have been endless discussions about ATG innings, ATG bowling performances etc etc.

Nevertheless, coming back to the original point, you concede that Lara's level was "worthy of an ATG batsman" but that's in direct contradiction of your original point of a batsman's worth being gauged according to the number of wins his performances result in, according to which Lara's performances should be given lower weightage, but we all know it isn't the case. As a matter of fact, hardly any of the great performances of Lara resulted in wins after Ambrose-Walsh's retirement and WI's gradual decline throughout the last decade, so should his performances be counted as less than let's say of somebody like Ponting who "won" many more matches with much less pressure on his batting?
 
Not even close,

His career stats have been highly boosted by playing in UAE for the past 6 years, he has almost doubled his centuries count in the time period since Pakistan adopted UAE as its home. I'm not underestimating his contribution to Pakistan Test side as he has been integral in Pakistan's domination at UAE but in order to qualify himself for any tier of ATG status, he needs to replicate his UAE form in England, SA and Australia which I highly doubt will come to fruition keeping in mind his terrible technique against pace accompanied by abysmal footwork. If somehow he can massively contribute to Pakistan's overseas victories (highly improbable) this year by score 5-6 hundreds in 8 Test matches against England & Australia, only then his status as an ATG will be considered but its too early to predict.

2016 may well be his career defining year, if he can come out on top by its end, then by all means he would've elevated his rank in the list of ATGs to have played the game.
 
Berserk_Marshal_ said:
. As a matter of fact, hardly any of the great performances of Lara resulted in wins after Ambrose-Walsh's retirement and WI's gradual decline throughout the last decade, so should his performances be counted as less than let's say of somebody like Ponting who "won" many more matches with much less pressure on his batting?
Click to expand...
yes, they should be counted as less.
you play to win and indeed in tests it rarely happens that one guy dominates a match in entirety, so that's tough luck for the batsman as to where he is born. I dont fault him for it.
What often gets missed is the impact that ATG's have on the rest of the team. There is no doubting Lara's pedigree when he had a superior bowling attack. but in his latter years, he was moody and did not get along with the board and was not a role model for younger teammates: did not want to practice in nets often, and fought for younger players to not be put through the grind.
 
Passionate Observer said:
Not even close,

His career stats have been highly boosted by playing in UAE for the past 6 years, he has almost doubled his centuries count in the time period since Pakistan adopted UAE as its home. I'm not underestimating his contribution to Pakistan Test side as he has been integral in Pakistan's domination at UAE but in order to qualify himself for any tier of ATG status, he needs to replicate his UAE form in England, SA and Australia which I highly doubt will come to fruition keeping in mind his terrible technique against pace accompanied by abysmal footwork. If somehow he can massively contribute to Pakistan's overseas victories (highly improbable) this year by score 5-6 hundreds in 8 Test matches against England & Australia, only then his status as an ATG will be considered but its too early to predict.

2016 may well be his career defining year, if he can come out on top by its end, then by all means he would've elevated his rank in the list of ATGs to have played the game.
Click to expand...

Yes its been agreed by most folks here as well: he needs to contribute to some big wins away in 2016. His average against pace bowling away from UAE/Pakistan is 31.8. That will need to be around 50 next year for his team to compete.
 
Pete Rose said:
What often gets missed is the impact that ATG's have on the rest of the team. There is no doubting Lara's pedigree when he had a superior bowling attack. but in his latter years, he was moody and did not get along with the board and was not a role model for younger teammates: did not want to practice in nets often, and fought for younger players to not be put through the grind.
Click to expand...

Sorry but what does all of this have to be with the actual performances on the field? It's not a prerequisite for a great player to be a great mentor/motivator and vice versa..there's a coaching staff for every concerning off-field activity. On the field, it's only the performances that count and rightly so.
 
Berserk_Marshal_ said:
Sorry but what does all of this have to be with the actual performances on the field? It's not a prerequisite for a great player to be a great mentor/motivator and vice versa..there's a coaching staff for every concerning off-field activity. On the field, it's only the performances that count and rightly so.
Click to expand...

You seem to exist in a world of black and whites....as the exchange demonstrates so far. many factors go into being an ATG. So to repeat for me: guys who contribute and their teams win: they are at the top of the tree.
 
Pete Rose said:
You seem to exist in a world of black and whites....as the exchange demonstrates so far. many factors go into being an ATG. So to repeat for me: guys who contribute and their teams win: they are at the top of the tree.
Click to expand...

There may be many factors but the point you're putting across is surely ain't one. If we were to go by your line of reasoning, even Justin Langer would end up as a better ATG contender than Lara. The correlation between "you" performing and the "team" winning isn't actually as linear as you are advocating. It obviously sounds better that a guy performed well and his team won but in no way should the other 10 members merits and demerits be stamped on your assessment as a performer.
 
Berserk_Marshal_ said:
There may be many factors but the point you're putting across is surely ain't one. If we were to go by your line of reasoning, even Justin Langer would end up as a better ATG contender than Lara. The correlation between "you" performing and the "team" winning isn't actually as linear as you are advocating. It obviously sounds better that a guy performed well and his team won but in no way should the other 10 members merits and demerits be stamped on your assessment as a performer.
Click to expand...
ok. not for me though. longevity of career also matters, as does quantity of runs....
seems like i am going to have to list all factors considering you are still focused on one point only.
 
unfair to compare YK with Dravid and Pointing. Pakistan never had a strong batting line up like India or Australia so YK's contributions are more significant.
 
It would be unfair to call someone not an ATG who has surpassed the record of Javed Miandad. He is definitely an ATG in the test format.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
I guess if he was a legit ATG we wouldn't see one such thread every week either. The very reason threads are posted to esquire about the status shows he's fallen short. Same with Kallis as an all rounder. All the threads are aside, he's comfortably ignored in most AR discussions.
Click to expand...

You are right. I see Sanga vs Sachin threads too all the time. Guess, sachin fans are insecure if Tendulkar is better than Sangakara or not.
 
Pete Rose said:
ok. not for me though. longevity of career also matters, as does quantity of runs....
seems like i am going to have to list all factors considering you are still focused on one point only.
Click to expand...

Sure, I never disputed that. My reply and the ensuing argument was basically on your following premise:

Big runs home and away translating to wins = ATG.
Click to expand...

Definitely there are many many other factors but the performances of your team mates isn't.
 
Berserk_Marshal_ said:
Sure, I never disputed that. My reply and the ensuing argument was basically on your following premise:



Definitely there are many many other factors but the performances of your team mates isn't.
Click to expand...
yeah that's simple enough for me. you score runs, you take wickets your team wins. sometimes you alone are enough and sometimes you need the help of your teammates.
but if you have to compete with someone playing for mid-table team that will not collectively let you win because they are mediocre. then they guy with the mediocre team goes second.
 
sarfarazrules said:
If so is he a top, mid or lower tier ATG?

Or perhaps do you think he is yet to be ATG material but simply on the verge of reaching such status?

In my view, he is an ATG but I'm undecided whether he is a lower or mid tier type. He is certainly not a top tier ATG such as Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Dravid, Ponting and etc.

To average 40+ in AUS, 50+ in ENG, 60+ in NZ is special, and he's also scored a century against each playing nation.

In addition, he converts just over 50% of his half centuries into hundreds and out of all these hundreds, 1 in 3 of these have been 150+ scores which really is phenomenal.

What I find most remarkable is his consistent averages batting from 1st to 4th innings at 50+ (except for his 3rd innings at 49.36). YK's 4th innings average never ceases to amaze me where he holds a stunning average of 60.59.

It is one thing to score runs and another thing to have impact and he's been able to show both with his consistent SR of over 50 in his test career. He has stepped up when his team in his adversity on many occasions; finest example being the one more recently with the series clinching 170+ in the final test in SL last year, but my favourite innings of his came in a losing cause on a Newlands green top where he and Shafiq resisted SA's momentum (39 for 4) to put on a double hundred partnership and earn a ton for themselves in the process. No doubt YK was a genuine match winner.

To conclude, in order to be globally recognised as one of the modern ATGs he needs to score heavily in AUS and ENG in the tours coming up and it is fantastic to hear he is eager to score a hundred in AUS, in which he has yet to accomplish. I do have concerns with how he will stand up in England against the moving ball particularly because he won't have played test cricket for so many months but I have confidence with Australia's flatter pitches these days, the opportunities for run scoring are there. Let us see what the final chapter of test cricket holds for him.
Click to expand...

Frankly speaking I don't rate these players at all. Yeah he makes runs in tests and got a great average and all, but still I don't rate him and only for Pakistanis he can be an all time great. Around the world nobody rates him as an atg and ll never ever rate him in this modern era, bcz an all time great should be an example for upcoming younsters. Youngsters shuld follow the footsteps of an all time great and shuld be admired and inspired by an all time great. An all time great shuld be an allround batsmen. Who got all the shots, who can play at high sr, who can play on a slower rate. Frankly speaking I don't rate neither younus, misbah, hafeez, shehzad, asad shafiq, sarfraz. They are not great batsmens and never ll be. An atg shuld be great in all 3 the formats. If u can play only 1 format then for me u are not an atg.
 
Last edited:
Trouble with ATG tag is that we can debate all we like, the experts of the game have to agree. They agree on Tendulkar, Imran, Wasim. But they don't on Dravid, Inzi and Younis. Infact Younis isn't even in the consideration set.

For all his numbers, he has to capture imagination. Dominate attacks. Play defining innings in Australia and England. That's the unfortunate reality but also a 2016 opportunity. It is up to him to take the challenge on. The numbers are already there, now do the miracles.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Trouble with ATG tag is that we can debate all we like, the experts of the game have to agree. They agree on Tendulkar, Imran, Wasim. But they don't on Dravid, Inzi and Younis. Infact Younis isn't even in the consideration set.

For all his numbers, he has to capture imagination. Dominate attacks. Play defining innings in Australia and England. That's the unfortunate reality but also a 2016 opportunity. It is up to him to take the challenge on. The numbers are already there, now do the miracles.
Click to expand...

Lol which expert doesn't agree on Dravid? Dravid is a league above younis and Inzi
 
Dravid and Ponting are not top tier ATGs themselves. You can call Younis a Pakistan ATG though.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Trouble with ATG tag is that we can debate all we like, the experts of the game have to agree. They agree on Tendulkar, Imran, Wasim. But they don't on Dravid, Inzi and Younis. Infact Younis isn't even in the consideration set.

For all his numbers, he has to capture imagination. Dominate attacks. Play defining innings in Australia and England. That's the unfortunate reality but also a 2016 opportunity. It is up to him to take the challenge on. The numbers are already there, now do the miracles.
Click to expand...

Lol what!
 
I think he is not there yet, because he hasnt played enough overseas

If somehow he manages to have a good 2016 he will become an ATG because if he has a good 2016 It would mean a good tour to England and Aus
 
Passionate Observer said:
Sachin too isn't a top tier ATG either, Don Bradman is a true top tier ATG in every sense.
Click to expand...

If you have room for a dozen tiers of ATGs, then sure, go ahead with it. What I meant was.. Sachin, Viv, Wasim and Lara are tier 1. Ponting, Dravid, Sanga are tier two.

Anything below is not ATG, so the likes of Younis stand no chance of being labeled one.
 
Relapse said:
You are right. I see Sanga vs Sachin threads too all the time. Guess, sachin fans are insecure if Tendulkar is better than Sangakara or not.
Click to expand...

Haven't ever seen Sachin fans opening comparison threads with Sanga, Kallis
 
Ab Fan said:
Sanga should be an ATG.A prolific run scorer in both formats( preferably tests) and avg of 58 diminishes that factor.Brilliant stats in WC and a memorable 192 in Australia makes him in that league..
Click to expand...

And a batting average of less than 40 in as many as 3 test playing nations.
 
No not yet his sample size in Australia is very small. Just one series. In England he hasn't played for a decade and in SA he has a mediocre record. if Younis had played our away tours in 2009/10 we would have known if he's an ATG by now. Next year at the age of 40 Younis will struggle big time in England and Australia especially. So he will fall short of becoming an ATG. Top 3 Pakistani Test Bats of all time

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
Acricketfan said:
And a batting average of less than 40 in as many as 3 test playing nations.
Click to expand...

AB avgs 40+ in all countries. But nobody rates him ATG in test.You tell me what should be the criteria and who all deserves to be there? I don't think his stats in WI, Eng and Ind were really matter of concern especially WI which had pretty avg bowling attack.
 
Ab Fan said:
AB avgs 40+ in all countries. But nobody rates him ATG in test.You tell me what should be the criteria and who all deserves to be there? I don't think his stats in WI, Eng and Ind were really matter of concern especially WI which had pretty avg bowling attack.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how bad West Indies are now. Whenever we talk about a batsman's stats, we always Bangladesh and Zimbabwe from the stars no matter how matter how bad other teams have been.

IMO, a batsman should be allowed to fail in a maximum of 2 countries (subjected to sample size). More than that, you're not eligible to be called an ATG batsman.
 
Ab Fan said:
AB avgs 40+ in all countries. But nobody rates him ATG in test.You tell me what should be the criteria and who all deserves to be there? I don't think his stats in WI, Eng and Ind were really matter of concern especially WI which had pretty avg bowling attack.
Click to expand...

He still has 3-4 years of cricket left in him. Let him retire and then we can discuss whether he is an ATG batsman or not.
 
Acricketfan said:
IMO, a batsman should be allowed to fail in a maximum of 2 countries (subjected to sample size). More than that, you're not eligible to be called an ATG batsman.
Click to expand...

So, if YK retires after a successful tour to Eng and Aus he should be considered an ATG with say 10k runs at avg of 54 over Sanga( 12k [MENTION=62431]A[/MENTION]vg 58) without considering what kind of bowling attack they faced or whom do opposition rates as more difficult batsmen? I believe Sanga's successful WC performance and his longevity and achievement for SL in shorter format makes a stronger case for him.Somewhere down the line how much hype they get during their peak also matters.That's something which Sanga created post Sachin-Ponting-kallis decline or retirement.
 
Ab Fan said:
So, if YK retires after a successful tour to Eng and Aus he should be considered an ATG with say 10k runs at avg of 54 over Sanga( 12k [MENTION=62431]A[/MENTION]vg 58) without considering what kind of bowling attack they faced or whom do opposition rates as more difficult batsmen? I believe Sanga's successful WC performance and his longevity and achievement for SL in shorter format makes a stronger case for him.Somewhere down the line how much hype they get during their peak also matters.That's something which Sanga created post Sachin-Ponting-kallis decline or retirement.
Click to expand...

Both of them made their debuts around the same time therefore the quality of bowling they faced should be same excluding/including some bowler(s).

Oh and I rate Sanga way higher than YK.
 
As others have said - "not even close". His fraility against true fast bowling and the swinging ball prevent him being defined a great. In all the years I have watched Pakistan play cricket only three ATGs -- Imran, Wasim and Miandad. We ghen have some very galented players below that -- Inzi, Anwar, Yousuf, Zaheer, Waqar
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Grading the all-time great Test batters: A Tier-Based System
Replies
2
Views
167
Hikaru
Hikaru
Ball Blazer
[REPORT] Wasim Akram under fire, cybercrime complaint filed against Pakistan cricket great
Replies
20
Views
924
sweep_shot
sweep_shot
The Bald Eagle
  • Poll Poll
Pakistan Cricket Board vs Ali Khan Tareen – Who is Right and Who is Wrong?
2
Replies
133
Views
3K
The Bald Eagle
The Bald Eagle
T
Frequent stumping dismissals - Why Pakistan batters not improving with time like their predecessors?
Replies
3
Views
186
Amjid Javed
Amjid Javed
T
Commentators/experts who provide value-added information
Replies
74
Views
1K
tiger_khan
T
Back
Top