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Is Younis Khan an all-time great in Test cricket?

The_Odd_One said:
Younis scored <B>plenty of runs</B> in England even in 2006 and scored ab149 something in NZ early in his career. Not many batsman can play a marathon inning when they are 40+ like Younis did in Eng, Aus, and SL.
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He had a good series in 2006 but his performance wasn't enough to be considered as "series-defining performance". He doesn't have a single series defining performance outside Asia and hence he isnt an ATG.

But he has got great grit, tremendous player of spin and can score runs when the going gets tough. I rate him behind Sangakkara, Amla and Smith among 2000s players.
 
Ab Fan said:
He had a good series in 2006 but his performance wasn't enough to be considered as "series-defining performance". He doesn't have a single series defining performance outside Asia and hence he isnt an ATG.

But he has got great grit, tremendous player of spin and can score runs when the going gets tough. I rate him behind Sangakkara, Amla and Smith among 2000s players.
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Behind Amla?
 
ATG in tests without a doubt. Unparalleled 4th innings record. Thirst for big scores. 52 sverage. There is no doubt he is an ATG.
 
The_Odd_One said:
How is Cook an ATG and Younis not is beyond understanding.
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Cook is not seen as an ATG by most people. Some posters are putting the likes of Cook, YK, Jayawadhene etc as ATGs, but these names are widely regarded as country great, not ATGs. Even if you take a poll in PP, which is a Pakistani dominated, I not sure if majority will put YK as an ATG. Same will be true for Cook in some English forum and for Jayawardhene in SL forum. If you go in nuetral forums, then you will find even fewer posters putting such names as an ATGs.

Some one can start a poll for YK in PP and leave it for 30 days to get an enough sample size. It may or may not prove what I am thinking.
 
Ab Fan said:
He is also a fantastic 4th inning player with so many great innings. Cook has really nothing in store to talk about barring those two series.

Younis is a level ahead of Cook.
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One interesting stat I found out about Cook is that his average drops drastically after the first 2 tests. England plays a lot of 4-5 test series and Cook has just 1 100 in 4th 5th test in his entire career.
 
Ab Fan said:
He had a good series in 2006 but his performance wasn't enough to be considered as "series-defining performance". He doesn't have a single series defining performance outside Asia and hence he isnt an ATG.

But he has got great grit, tremendous player of spin and can score runs when the going gets tough. I rate him behind Sangakkara, Amla and Smith among 2000s players.
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How is series saving double century in England not a series defining inning outside Asia?

Played a similar inning in WI in 2005.

Pakistan would have lost both series without Younis.
 
Younis had consistency issues but he was one of those batsmen you could never rule out or underestimate. He would always play a blinder when the opposition didn't see it coming.
 
Some posters are here ,trying hard to prove him a non ATG. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] , can u tell me why ranking is so important in this particular case to be considered an ATG ? While in previous threads , u were of the opine that ranking does not need to be taken too seriously and here all your claims are just based on ranking . Even by ranking standards , he was persistently in top 7, for last 6,7 years . Can anybody draw graphs of ranking of other ATG test batsmen , just for the sake of comparisons like Rahul Dravid etc .If ATG status is awarded just on being persistently among top 3 in ranking then I think nobody would have a very strong claim for ATG status except barring one or two .while Mamoon is just being Mamoon
 
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The_Odd_One said:
How is Cook an ATG and Younis not is beyond understanding. Younis ticks more boxes:

1. Ranked #1 in the world
2. Best batsman in his team
3. Iconic knocks against quality bowling attacks
4. Better 3rd/4th innings batsman
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As far as comparison with Cook is concerned, here is his record outside Asia:

SA- A batting average of 31
NZ- A batting average of 34
Aus- Barring that one series he failed everytime there
WI are irrelevant

Now coming to his home venue, he averages 45 which is heavily boosted by runs against Indian, Lankan, WI and Pak attack( when they had a mediocre attack)

He doesn't have a single good series(not even dominant) against quality pace bowling attack outside Asia and that includes his home venue.
 
Godhelpma said:
Some posters are here ,trying hard to prove him a non ATG. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] , can u tell me why ranking is so important in this particular case to be considered an ATG ? While in previous threads , u were of the opine that ranking does not need to be taken too seriously and here all your claims are just based on ranking . Even by ranking standards , he was persistently in top 7, for last 6,7 years . Can anybody draw graphs of ranking of other ATG test batsmen , just for the sake of comparisons like Rahul Dravid etc .If ATG status is awarded just on being persistently among top 3 in ranking then I think nobody would have a very strong claim for ATG status except barring one or two .while Mamoon is just being Mamoon
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Last point of yours holds a lot of weight. It is mighty hard to be in the top 3 for a batsman for a long period of time.
 
Ab Fan said:
As far as comparison with Cook is concerned, here is his record outside Asia:

SA- A batting average of 31
NZ- A batting average of 34
Aus- Barring that one series he failed everytime there
WI are irrelevant

Now coming to his home venue, he averages 45 which is heavily boosted by runs against Indian, Lankan, WI and Pak attack( when they had a mediocre attack)

He doesn't have a single good series(not even dominant) against quality pace bowling attack outside Asia and that includes his home venue.
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I have no problem if someone does not consider Younis an ATG because at best he can be a borderline ATG, way below the likes of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Dravid, Sanga, Kallis, etc but it is hypocritical to consider Cook an ATG.
 
The_Odd_One said:
How is series saving double century in England not a series defining inning outside Asia?

Played a similar inning in WI in 2005.

Pakistan would have lost both series without Younis.
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Because he failed badly in the first 7 innings of the series. You cant do that when we talk about one complete series.

A series defining performance means you have got runs in most part of the series not just in one.

This has been Younis story all his career overseas. Scores heavily in one inning but goes missing in every other game because of his susceptibility against pace.
 
Godhelpma said:
Some posters are here ,trying hard to prove him a non ATG. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] , can u tell me why ranking is so important in this particular case to be considered an ATG ? While in previous threads , u were of the opine that ranking does not need to be taken too seriously and here all your claims are just based on ranking . Even by ranking standards , he was persistently in top 7, for last 6,7 years . Can anybody draw graphs of ranking of other ATG test batsmen , just for the sake of comparisons like Rahul Dravid etc .If ATG status is awarded just on being persistently among top 3 in ranking then I think nobody would have a very strong claim for ATG status except barring one or two .while Mamoon is just being Mamoon
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When did I say that ranking trend is irreverent? rankings at any point may not be perfect, but their trend over a period tells you a lot. I am talking about trend here.

The_Odd_One said:
Last point of yours holds a lot of weight. It is mighty hard to be in the top 3 for a batsman for a long period of time.
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No batsman is going to be among the top 3-4 for entire career. It's also very hard for batsman to be top 3-4 for even entire 5 years, but every ATG bowler or batsman does spend couple of years in that. They do have a dominating years and that puts them in top for some prolong period.

Are we trying to make a claim that you can't even have a dominating couple of years to appear in the top 3-4 at any stretch of your career and still be an ATG? ATG is standing out in history of cricket. If you can't do that even among your peers, then you are not an ATG. That's how I see it. I have no issue in some one having list of 100 players as an ATG. I have a far shorter list.
 
Buffet said:
When did I say that ranking trend is irreverent? rankings at any point may not be perfect, but their trend over a period tells you a lot. I am talking about trend here.



No batsman is going to be among the top 3-4 for entire career. It's also very hard for batsman to be top 3-4 for even entire 5 years, but every ATG bowler or batsman does spend couple of years in that. They do have a dominating years and that puts them in top for some prolong period.

Are we trying to make a claim that you can't even have a dominating couple of years to appear in the top 3-4 at any stretch of your career and still be an ATG? ATG is standing out in history of cricket. If you can't do that even among your peers, then you are not an ATG. That's how I see it. I have no issue in some one having list of 100 players as an ATG. I have a far shorter list.
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It is very hard to be consistently ranked in top 3 these days. There is Just too much competition for batsmen. For bowlers though, it's easier.
 
GudduBadmash said:
Given honourary LORDS membership, clearly the others do value him
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Lord's membership doesn't prove if a player is ATG or not. Afridi was granted membership too, he must be an ATG.

Younis is a great player and he is acclaimed for it. He is also a Pakistani legend, but unfortunately some people are not satisfied with it and want to force him in a category where he doesn't belong.
 
The_Odd_One said:
It is very hard to be consistently ranked in top 3 these days. There is Just too much competition for batsmen. For bowlers though, it's easier.
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It's hard, but standout batsmen will appear in the top 3 for few years in one stretch. Anyway, being there is not going to make anyone an ATG, but I do think that standout player will force it's way in the top 3-4 rank and be there for few years.
 
Buffet said:
It's hard, but standout batsmen will appear in the top 3 for few years in one stretch. Anyway, being there is not going to make anyone an ATG, but I do think that standout player will force it's way in the top 3-4 rank and be there for few years.
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I am not sure if it is one of the factors. You may know better but does the number of games affect individual rankings? Younis only played 118 tests in 17 years. Root, for example, has already played 60 in 5 years.
 
Mamoon said:
Lord's membership doesn't prove if a player is ATG or not. Afridi was granted membership too, he must be an ATG.
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There are few hundreds players in that list. If I recall it right then just from Pakistan there are 20-25 players.
 
The_Odd_One said:
I am not sure if it is one of the factors. You may know better but does the number of games affect individual rankings? Younis only played 118 tests in 17 years. Root, for example, has already played 60 in 5 years.
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Rating points are normalized for number of matches. If your country is playing tests and you miss for any reason then you do lose points, but if NZ player plays 12 tests and and English player plays 16 tests then NZ player won't be penalized for playing less. Eng players will accumulated more points but it is divided by number of matches to arrive at final rating points.

Anyway, I don't use Ranking trend for ATG. I was just making a point that if you can't even outshine your peers for a some reasonable period then ATG is bit too much. Some posters took it as you just need to come in top in ranking for few years and you are an ATG.

Also, no one should be ATG batsman or bowler if you are horrible in either long or short format in current era. I simply use that for ATG right now. YK had a serious limitation as batsman and we have all seen it. Not sure why he should be rated among the best of the best in history as a batsman. I do rate YK pretty high in the test format. I just don't see he is anywhere close to being an ATG as a batsman playing in current era. If some one wants to just limit the discussion for Test format, which i think is wrong way to look for a batsman in current era, then he is sure close but still not there.
 
Harbhajan Singh, in his 18-year-long international career, has played against some of the greatest batsmen of the modern era. Regarded as one of the best off-spinners India has ever produced, Harbhajan, had duels with the likes of Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Brian Lara, Jacques Kallis, Hashim Amla, Kumar Sangakkara, Inzamam-ul-Haq and many more. Against some, he emerged on top while some had the better of Harbhajan.

When asked to talk about the toughest batsmen he has played against by former teammate Rohit Sharma in an Instagram live session on Thursday, Harbhajan, who has 417 Test wickets and 239 in ODIs, did not have much difficulty.

Harbhajn named one each from South Africa and Australia, two from Pakistan and one from West Indies in his list of top five batsmen who troubled him the most during his career.


Jacques Kallis

The first name that Harbhajan took was of South Africa’s Jacques Kallis. The South Africa all-rounder, who is the country’s highest scorer in both forms of the game – 13289 runs in Tests and 11579 runs in ODIs – has a good record against Harbhajan. The right-hander was particularly severe against Harbhajan in ODIs. While Harbhajan did get him out a few times but in ODIs, he has never been able to dismiss Kallis. “I found Jacques Kallis very difficult to bowl at in Tests,” said Harbhajan.

Matthew Hayden


The second name that Harbhajan took was of Australia opener Matthew Hayden’s. Regarded as one of the best openers of the game, Hayden was ruthless against the spinners. His tactic of running down the track and sweeping gave a hard time to spinners all around the globe and Harbhajan was no stranger to it.


Brian Lara


The West Indian legend Brian Lara was the third in Harbhajan’s list. Though Harbhajan has not run into Lara that often in international cricket but the India off-spinner said the left-hander was brilliant. Lara retired with 11953 runs in Tests and 10405 runs in ODIs.

Younis Khan

Former Pakistan batsman Younis Khan was next in Harbbhajan’s list. “Younis Khan troubled me a lot,” said Harbhajan and when Rohit reminded of the Pakistan batsman sweeping him repeatedly, Harbhajan said: “Yes, all the time, he made me feel crying,” added Harbhajan. Younis Khan scored 10099 runs for Pakistan in 118 Tests with an average of 52.05.


Inzamam-ul-Haq

“Inzamam is also someone I found hard to dismiss. There are many but I would choose these five,” Harbhajan took former Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq’s name while completing his list. Inzamam scored 8830 runs in Tests and 11739 runs in ODIs for Pakistan.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...est-batsmen/story-RDaqXn8VHtaBzerr6epdfM.html
 
MenInG said:
Harbhajan Singh, in his 18-year-long international career, has played against some of the greatest batsmen of the modern era. Regarded as one of the best off-spinners India has ever produced, Harbhajan, had duels with the likes of Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden, Brian Lara, Jacques Kallis, Hashim Amla, Kumar Sangakkara, Inzamam-ul-Haq and many more. Against some, he emerged on top while some had the better of Harbhajan.

When asked to talk about the toughest batsmen he has played against by former teammate Rohit Sharma in an Instagram live session on Thursday, Harbhajan, who has 417 Test wickets and 239 in ODIs, did not have much difficulty.

Harbhajn named one each from South Africa and Australia, two from Pakistan and one from West Indies in his list of top five batsmen who troubled him the most during his career.


Jacques Kallis

The first name that Harbhajan took was of South Africa’s Jacques Kallis. The South Africa all-rounder, who is the country’s highest scorer in both forms of the game – 13289 runs in Tests and 11579 runs in ODIs – has a good record against Harbhajan. The right-hander was particularly severe against Harbhajan in ODIs. While Harbhajan did get him out a few times but in ODIs, he has never been able to dismiss Kallis. “I found Jacques Kallis very difficult to bowl at in Tests,” said Harbhajan.

Matthew Hayden


The second name that Harbhajan took was of Australia opener Matthew Hayden’s. Regarded as one of the best openers of the game, Hayden was ruthless against the spinners. His tactic of running down the track and sweeping gave a hard time to spinners all around the globe and Harbhajan was no stranger to it.


Brian Lara


The West Indian legend Brian Lara was the third in Harbhajan’s list. Though Harbhajan has not run into Lara that often in international cricket but the India off-spinner said the left-hander was brilliant. Lara retired with 11953 runs in Tests and 10405 runs in ODIs.

Younis Khan

Former Pakistan batsman Younis Khan was next in Harbbhajan’s list. “Younis Khan troubled me a lot,” said Harbhajan and when Rohit reminded of the Pakistan batsman sweeping him repeatedly, Harbhajan said: “Yes, all the time, he made me feel crying,” added Harbhajan. Younis Khan scored 10099 runs for Pakistan in 118 Tests with an average of 52.05.


Inzamam-ul-Haq

“Inzamam is also someone I found hard to dismiss. There are many but I would choose these five,” Harbhajan took former Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq’s name while completing his list. Inzamam scored 8830 runs in Tests and 11739 runs in ODIs for Pakistan.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...est-batsmen/story-RDaqXn8VHtaBzerr6epdfM.html
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Harbhajan should have mentioned Ponting. Afterall both collided at their peaks.
 
Greatest Pakistani batsmen of all time

1. The Great Haneef Mohammad (God bless his soul)

2. Javed Miandad

3. Inzamam ul Haq


Younis was a good batsman. But he is definitely behind Saeed Anwar and Mohammad Yousuf.

But as a human being which matters the most he is wonderful guy and one of the most likeable Pakistanis in India and lovingly known as Yoni over here.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 1977. The brilliant Younis Khan was born in Mardan. Younis is Pakistan's highest runscorer in Tests with 10,099 runs. He made 33 Test fifties, scored 34 Test hundreds and finished with an average of 52.05 in Tests <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/3u90VP3bjR">pic.twitter.com/3u90VP3bjR</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1465234065746022403?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I had my doubts about two-thirds of the way through what turned out to be his eventual career, as he was beginning to miss a few steps. But he had a late bloom and ended up as an absolute ATG in my opinion.
 
I think he is definitely a Pakistani great but not an ATG.

Javed Miandad is a better candidate for an ATG status than YK.
 
sweep_shot said:
I think he is definitely a Pakistani great but not an ATG.

Javed Miandad is a better candidate for an ATG status than YK.
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You’re wrong. Younus was an outstanding match winner, especially in the latter half of his career. His runs were always important, match-winning runs. He scored runs against the tide, when others fell flat on their faces. He scored against the best attacks in the World. He was very, very difficult to dismiss.

He is without any shadow of a doubt one of the very greatest test match batters in human history.
 
Indeed an ATG of Test cricket have scored century in every country he played.Legend
 
Yes.

He is the only batsman after Sachin Tendulkar with 10000 test runs at an average of 50+ in Australia, England and India.

He is a level above the likes of Inzy and Yousuf.
 
Id say hes the greatest test batman pakistan has produced

An absolute gun test bat
 
To be considered a test ATG in modern day times, a batsman should tick these marks.

50+ average - Check
50+ away average - Not check (close at 48.76)
50+ average in India - Check
50+ average in Australia - Check
50+ average in England - Check
10k+ runs - Check

The only country where he played bad was West Indies (avg 22) which is a huge outlier (given how weak WI has been since 2000).


Younis did it all. Maybe some other things he missing? But he had a pretty complete career.
 
No doubt Younis is a Pak great. Initially due to his slow pace of batting i was not very keen on him. Fortunately he became much more of an attacking player coming in to his own after someone probably had a word with him. Overall I would say he is definitely not in the top ten batsmen of all time.
 
PakLFC said:
No doubt Younis is a Pak great. Initially due to his slow pace of batting i was not very keen on him. Fortunately he became much more of an attacking player coming in to his own after someone probably had a word with him. Overall I would say he is definitely not in the top ten batsmen of all time.
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So who's in the top 10 ?
 
Younis Khan not an ATG, not even close, yes he was a UAE king. Never scored consistently in any overseas series, one big score and then long long run of low score.
 
If ATG is a list of 20 batsmen then no, however if ATG is a list of 50 batsmen then yes.
 
He made Kumble and Harbanjan Singh look ordinary in India.

Why is SENA looked as a sole barometer for success. Ponting's record was awful in India.
 
PakLFC said:
The all time greats who scored runs all over the world. The usual suspects we all know about.
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The only place he struggled was West Indies and South Africa

Posting average in India was less than 30.
 
shamaan said:
The only place he struggled was West Indies and South Africa

Posting average in India was less than 30.
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Still not good enough to be called an overall all time great. All time Pak great he certainly is without doubt. Can't be compared to a Dravid, Ponting, Lara or of course Sachin.
 
PakLFC said:
Still not good enough to be called an overall all time great. All time Pak great he certainly is without doubt. Can't be compared to a Dravid, Ponting, Lara or of course Sachin.
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David himself is no Lara, Tendulkar or Ponting
Stop mixing categories.
 
Mobashir said:
David himself is no Lara, Tendulkar or Ponting
Stop mixing categories.
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The category is Cricket. Up to me if I don't consider Younis to be an all time great, meri marzi:moyo2. Most of our fans are biased. You probably consider Azhar Ali to be the GOAT!:inti
 
PakLFC said:
The category is Cricket. Up to me if I don't consider Younis to be an all time great, meri marzi:moyo2. Most of our fans are biased. You probably consider Azhar Ali to be the GOAT!:inti
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I was probably one of the rare here who never wanted Azhar Ali in the team from the start.
YK is an inferior all format batsman to others and isn't an all time great.
Even only in tests he isn't an ATG to me but it depends on how many you consider to be in the ATG.

Congrats for being wrong on everything you wrote, not an easy thing to do.
 
Mobashir said:
I was probably one of the rare here who never wanted Azhar Ali in the team from the start.
YK is an inferior all format batsman to others and isn't an all time great.
Even only in tests he isn't an ATG to me but it depends on how many you consider to be in the ATG.

Congrats for being wrong on everything you wrote, not an easy thing to do.
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In my mind, Younis Khan is definitely a test ATG. He is the only player in the world with 10000+ runs at an average of 50+ in India, England and Australia after Sachin Tendulkar. That alone makes anyone an ATG.
 
Mobashir said:
I was probably one of the rare here who never wanted Azhar Ali in the team from the start.
YK is an inferior all format batsman to others and isn't an all time great.
Even only in tests he isn't an ATG to me but it depends on how many you consider to be in the ATG.

Congrats for being wrong on everything you wrote, not an easy thing to do.
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I don't need your approval to be deemed right or wrong. Most fans will not pick Younis any all time great side other then biased ones like you. You know nothing.

To me an ATG is an exceptional player who would make most ATG sides. Okay not Azhar now you will say Fakhar Zaman is an ATG. Must be hard always having your green specs on without any impartiality even if it hit you on the nose you won't know what this word means.
 
PakLFC said:
I don't need your approval to be deemed right or wrong. Most fans will not pick Younis any all time great side other then biased ones like you. You know nothing.

To me an ATG is an exceptional player who would make most ATG sides. Okay not Azhar now you will say Fakhar Zaman is an ATG. Must be hard always having your green specs on without any impartiality even if it hit you on the nose you won't know what this word means.
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All wrong again! I don't know why you need to assume things for me.

My comment was "Dravid isn't in the league of Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting". You can agree or disagree, but why did that hurt you?
 
Mobashir said:
All wrong again! I don't know why you need to assume things for me.

My comment was "Dravid isn't in the league of Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting". You can agree or disagree, but why did that hurt you?
Click to expand...

You hurt me coz you are talking nonsense. Your problem is that why I am not calling Younis Khan an elite batsmen and ATG to which I say it is up to me so deal with it. Dravid is a different batsmen to the rest you mentioned. His game was different to others nonetheless he was an ATG at that.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 1977. The brilliant Younis Khan was born in Mardan. Younis is Pakistan's highest runscorer in Tests with 10,099 runs. He made 33 Test fifties, scored 34 Test hundreds and finished with an average of 52.05 in Tests <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/vFacpIHwrj">pic.twitter.com/vFacpIHwrj</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1597494757865164800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
A very hard working and honest cricketer despite the lack of flair in his batting. A relatively more attacking version of Pujara. Deserved the success he got. Underrated as a captain and cricket brain.
 
Happy B'day! A good batsman, and by Pak standards, a very good one. Much like how we consider Kapil Dev a very good bowler by Indian standards.
 
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