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"It ended up being more of a subcontinent pitch": Ben Stokes after 2nd Test loss to India

Such a sore losser. They doctored the pitch for bazball yet lost the match by 300+ runs.

Why not give us greenish pitch? Because they are afraid of Bumrah.

18 out of 20 wickets taken by Indian Pacers so not sure what he smoking before talking nonsense.

:kp
 
From Brook's " We can chase anything" to skipper's "Pitch was too subcontinental" ? What changed?

Also why this admission that you can't win on wickets that aren't tailor made for your style of cricket ? :inti
 
He is right about the pitch though.
Each of you agreed to it in match 2 discussion thread as well.
 
Ball Blazer said:
He is right about the pitch though.
Each of you agreed to it in match 2 discussion thread as well.
Click to expand...
What was the role of spinners in recent test ? People's are taking credit away from Indian Pacers who Bowled beautifully under Those conditions.

:kp
 
Ball Blazer said:
He is right about the pitch though.
Each of you agreed to it in match 2 discussion thread as well.
Click to expand...
Any normal 5th day pitch will act as decent sub continental track with cracks ,rough outside , uneven bounce .bounce may vary depending on the country.Indirectly he is saying that pitch should be a road for his ftbs.but any decent sub continental pitch is not a road like this series pitches.
 
Hitman said:
Thodi si sharam bachi hoh toh prepare good pitches for the next 3 Tests. We might end up losing each Test by an innings, I don't care.
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Agreed. Both of these 2 games have been entire troll fests from the curators.
 
England is probably the only team to complain about pitches at both home and overseas.... its never a problem with their skills, its ALWAYS the pitch thats the reason for their loss.
:kp
 
The legendary brainless slogger McCullum, who owns the copyrights to the Bazball facade, has publicly stated that bowling first was a bad call.

Is this the start of the rift between him and Stokes? Either way, both of them have to go, their facade is over. Neither of them have any understand of how to play Test cricket and have no respect for the format.

It is time to make Brook captain, bring in a proper Test coach and replace Stokes the player with Bethell.
 
No need to call him a bad loser. He clearly said England was out skilled by India.

Bazball has had a tremendous impact on test cricket. Regardless of the result the opposition and fans were completely unsure of what score would be "enough" to set as a target for England to chase and that shows how they have changed the game over the last few years.

In the previous test match they got a bit too cocky and were rightly jumbled. But that's the nature of sport.
 
How can he say it is like sub continent wicket. Sub continent wickets are turners and helps the spin bowlers. Jadeja or Sundar could not get many wickets. Of course the pitch helped the batsmen to a good extent. Jamie Smith and Harry Brook could make a record partnership. It just happened Indian fast bowlers bowled better than the English fast bowlers. Probably Stokes could bring Archer, Overton, Atkinson etc. for the next test.
 
England Test cricket is in the hands of two bang average Test batsmen who average 38 and 35 in their respective careers. Absolute madness.

Neither McCullum nor Stokes know the first thing about Test cricket batting, and it is not surprising that they have no respect for it either.

English should bring in someone like Sangakkara as coach who has been previously been linked with the white ball job, and Brook is ready to be the all-format England captain.
 
As others have rightly said, England have considerable say in the type of wickets prepared.
The fact is that Stokes and McCullum have gone on record as saying how they actively work with groundsmen to ensure they have wickets to suit “their brand of cricket” (not sure what that actually means …. perhaps code for “brainless and mindless”).

Well they have just got hammered by a team who were better in all departments — in fact, India should have won the first Test were it not for dropped catches.

I have to say there is a real sense of schadenfreude seeing England lose — ridiculously pompous and self-congratulatory.

I’m going to Lords on Friday — look forward to another enjoyable game (would love to see Jaiswal score a century).
 
He can use that excuse for second innings failure. What about first innings. idnia batted after England and made 427 right?
 
Subcontinent pitches have turn. This was a total road. Somehow Akashdeep was able to get some purchase from the pitch and got English batsmen out.
 
Well whoever’s fault it is, the reality is it is extremely dumb to give these types of tracks to India. Why was it done? Who knows.

But one thing we know, 2011-2018, England prepared seamers and made the Indians dance. That’s a very simple strategy to beat FTBs
 
TheSultan said:
Well whoever’s fault it is, the reality is it is extremely dumb to give these types of tracks to India. Why was it done? Who knows.

But one thing we know, 2011-2018, England prepared seamers and made the Indians dance. That’s a very simple strategy to beat FTBs
Click to expand...

Ya.. FTBs like AKash deep, Siraj definitely made the world no.1 , world no.2 ranked batsmen dance to their tune on flat tracks.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This guy took stats analysis to another level with this one
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It's such a useless stat but coming from Indian it does not surprise. If you take any record you can add meaningless details to it to make another record like Tendulkar is the shortest batsmen to score more than 10k runs etc.....
 
Not sure what England think thank is on about, they are making roads on purpose and then bowling first? They were hoping this pitch stay as Day 1 pitch or even gets better as the match goes on? But now way these kind of one sided pitches are good advert for test cricket as they claim.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Both are garbage bowlers with one fluke performance don't talk as if they are 150 kmph firecrackers, both are medium pace trundlers.
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We can only hope that firecracker Naseem shows these bowlers their real Aukaat when he tours England next year, champ.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
We can only hope that firecracker Naseem shows these bowlers their real Aukaat when he tours England next year, champ.
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I think this is a sarcastic account. Deliberately overhyping and silently enjoying failures of these "150 firecrackers".
 
One of the most common occurrence in the bazball era will be injury to bowlers. Reasons are obvious

1) Flat pitches that don't help bowlers a much. So they end up bowling more overs
2) England scores so quickly that they barely get any rest
3) Stokes uses them like cheap labors to enforce his weird plans for long periods

He never cares for bowlers when it is others. Stokes bowled overs in the first test. Look at how he used himself in the 2nd test. He barely bowled. He wanted to protect his own body. Not other bowlers. He is not a bowlers captain. Bashir bowled like 20 to 30 overs on the trot as well.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This could be risky.

Bumrah, Siraj and Akash are better than anything England can put together at the moment.

On a side note a captain requesting pitches seems to be quite a modern phenomenon. Did this openly happen as much in the past?
Click to expand...

Anderson used to. Not sure about English captains.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
There you go @RedwoodOriginal


Stokes has already demanded lively pitches.
Click to expand...
Natural reaction I guess. I wonder if they would be doing this if it were not for the heavy defeat they suffered in the last match. Even in the Ashes the defeats suffered in the first two matches were probably a big cause for the change in pitches. Later in that series you did see them revert back to flatter pitches like in Manchester...though Manchester traditionally is known to be one of the flatter pitches in England.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This could be risky.

Bumrah, Siraj and Akash are better than anything England can put together at the moment.

On a side note a captain requesting pitches seems to be quite a modern phenomenon. Did this openly happen as much in the past?
Click to expand...
I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The precedent has been set and all teams expect it. Pakistan openly told everyone they were using industrial fans and greenhouses to prepare turning tracks on the orders of the chief-selector. In the past, teams like India and South Africa have also pretty much said they were preparing a certain type of pitch, without outright saying it.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This could be risky.

Bumrah, Siraj and Akash are better than anything England can put together at the moment.

On a side note a captain requesting pitches seems to be quite a modern phenomenon. Did this openly happen as much in the past?
Click to expand...
They would do it silently before. Now they say it openly. Home advantage is nothing to fret about. IT is there everywhere. But oflate these kind of pitches have backfired on the home team. India had issues as well in home pitches recently as it becomes essential to win the toss. If you don't win the toss all the pitch preparation will come to nothing and you will end up on the receiving end. Australia completely changed the usual flat SCG pitch into a seaming monster against India where both teams failed to cross 200 in the first innings since India could potentially come back into the series.
 
If there's one team that gets the pitches right, it's England. I am surprised they played into India's hands like this by giving their batsmen the perfect pitch to bat on...and a pitch even their bowlers can get more out of than the English bowlers. Even with flat surfaces, there are variations. You didn't need to prepare a flat surface that is also slow and dry. Anyways, I don't expect them to make the same mistake again.

Hopefully they don't too far in the other direction either and prepare a lottery pitch. Because that could backfire spectacularly too.
 
England not only messed with pitches. THey also pulled the ropes well in so that they could counter kuldeep yadav just in case he gets picked. They tried everything at the Edgbaston.
 
Demerit points would have been given if that match was played in subcontinent, especially Rawalpindi
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England not only messed with pitches. THey also pulled the ropes well in so that they could counter kuldeep yadav just in case he gets picked. They tried everything at the Edgbaston.
Click to expand...
Source?
 
jnaveen1980 said:
THey also pulled the ropes well in so that they could counter kuldeep yadav just in case he gets picked. They tried everything at the Edgbaston.
Click to expand...
And Gambhir trolled them by not picking Kuldeep in XI

On a serious note though, it was so ugly to see boundary ropes being so far brought in from their usual location
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England not only messed with pitches. THey also pulled the ropes well in so that they could counter kuldeep yadav just in case he gets picked. They tried everything at the Edgbaston.
Click to expand...

Stokes is again being a sook- blaming everything but themselves, especially the poor bowling. Also the boundary ropes being well in was bordering on absurdity. Looks like England is more interested in doubling & tripling down on their Bazball approach & serve as its advert, rather than play proper test cricket.
 
MP2011 said:
And Gambhir trolled them by not picking Kuldeep in XI

On a serious note though, it was so ugly to see boundary ropes being so far brought in from their usual location
Click to expand...
Dial back to 2019 world cup must win game for England against India. One side of the boundary was 59 meter. Once again to negate Kuldeep. Roy kept sweeping the ball for shorter boundary just clearing the boundary.
 
Not much of a subcontinent pitch when India's pacers comfortably outbowled England's pace attack and grabbed bulk of the wickets especially with the new ball. 6 ducks in England's first innings, that a damning indictment and then India proceeded to score 580 plus in the first innings and 420 plus in the second innings.

England need to take a gamble with green tops if they wish to come back in the series and be bold enough to back themselves against India's superior bowling attack of Bhumrah, Siraj, Akashdeep because India's bowling attack is way superior on a flat wicket in comparison to England's.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Dial back to 2019 world cup must win game for England against India. One side of the boundary was 59 meter. Once again to negate Kuldeep. Roy kept sweeping the ball for shorter boundary just clearing the boundary.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember that. No one fixes the playing conditions as drastically as English do.
 
Mockingbird said:
No wonder Stokes said this was a sub-continental pitch - England definitely looked as clueless as they are usually in the subcontinent.
Click to expand...
So English sook about Indian pitches. They sook about English pitches too. At least, you can't accuse of them being biased.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Dial back to 2019 world cup must win game for England against India. One side of the boundary was 59 meter. Once again to negate Kuldeep. Roy kept sweeping the ball for shorter boundary just clearing the boundary.
Click to expand...

That boundary was physically as far out as it could be. Didn't stop Kohli cooking up a conspiracy to whine about after the game though.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Not quiet so. One side was much shorter.
Click to expand...

Yes because they were using the pitch that side rather than the central pitch that was set aside for the semi final. The 59m boundary itself was still as far as out as it could physically be.
 
HitWicket said:
Yes because they were using the pitch that side rather than the central pitch that was set aside for the semi final. The boundary itself was still as far as out as it could physically be.
Click to expand...
tomato tamato so boundary was much shorter for a ODI game 59 meter was ridiculous.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
tomato tamato so boundary was much shorter for a ODI game 59 meter was ridiculous.
Click to expand...

It wasn't much shorter, it was just 4m shorter than the same boundary would be for any game played on the central wicket (like the semi final was) and only 2m shorter than the boundary size used for the Ashes test at the same venue later the same year and for the India test just completed. In all cases it was pushed out as far as it could physically be.

It's perfectly acceptable for an ODI. It would meet the boundary size requirements for a new ground let alone a grandfathered ground like Edgbaston.
 
HitWicket said:
It wasn't much shorter, it was just 4m shorter than the same boundary would be for any game played on the central wicket (like the semi final was) and only 2m shorter than the boundary size used for the Ashes test at the same venue later the same year and for the India test just completed. In all cases it was pushed out as far as it could physically be.

It's perfectly acceptable for an ODI. It would meet the boundary size requirements for a new ground let alone a grandfathered ground like Edgbaston.
Click to expand...
No that is not as far as they could push. This was the Indiavs England match boundary. Stop giving excuses. Even English experets raised concerns for this second test about boundary.



Screenshot-2025-07-07-130849.jpg


www.indiatoday.in

Explained: Have Edgbaston boundaries been shortened to aid England's Bazball vs India?

The boundary dimensions at Edgbaston sparked widespread curiosity as play got underway in the second Test between England and India. Former England pacer Steven Finn suggested that the shortened boundaries were in line with England’s aggressive approach under Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum...
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

The boundary dimensions at Edgbaston had everyone talking as soon as play began in the second Test between England and India. From the press box to the stands, seasoned watchers immediately spotted something odd: the boundary cushions weren't where you'd expect them. They looked distinctly asymmetrical and unusually close in for a Test match at one of cricket's most storied venues.

Turns out, this wasn't a ground staff quirk. Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum are understood to have had a say in moving the boundary rope significantly in from the perimeter - a move that echoes a similar tactic from the iconic 2005 Ashes. Back then, England had shrunk the playing area to tilt the battle in their favour against the great Shane Warne. This time, as the match unfolded, it was hard to ignore the sense of deja vu.

The most glaring example was the boundary in front of the scoreboard - wide long-off for a right-hander from the pavilion end. It looked almost comically close. Some in the media centre joked in hushed tones that the leftover playing area could've easily hosted a children's game.

The numbers tell their own story. The longest boundary measured just 65 meters—at cow corner - and the straight boundaries were around 60 metres. Compare that with the maximum allowed under ICC rules, which is 90 metres. Even the shortest legal distance, 59.43 metres, was only just being met in places.

Now, here's the thing: India had already announced they'd go in with two spinners. So naturally, questions started flying. Was the boundary brought in to make it easier for England's batters to clear the ropes? A top edge could now comfortably sail into the stands.

It's not the first time India have found themselves on the wrong end of boundary dimensions at Edgbaston. During the 2019 World Cup, they were left fuming when one side of the ground was unusually short in their group match against England. The hosts made full use of it, taking Kuldeep Yadav and Yuzvendra Chahal apart - and neutralising one of India's biggest weapons.

FINN, LLOYD RAISE CONCERNS​

Former England all-rounder David Lloyd couldn't quite wrap his head around the setup either. "I was confused by how far in the boundary ropes were. I think it has something to do with having them not too close to the advertising boards," he wrote in the Daily Mail.

Steven Finn, the former England fast bowler, had a different take. He tied the move to England's fearless 'Bazball' approach. "So we're here at Edgbaston. I stood right by the boundary rope, which is a considerable way in from where you may anticipate for a normal Test match," he said on BBC. "England and their propensity to want to win the toss, bowl first and chase in the last innings maybe is the reason why those boundaries have come so far in."

WHAT DO ICC RULES SAY?​

The ICC's official guidelines are clear: "The aim shall be to maximise the size of the playing area at each venue. With respect to the size of the boundaries, no boundary shall be longer than 90 yards (82.29 meters), and no boundary should be shorter than 65 yards (59.43 meters) from the centre of the pitch to be used."

So, technically, Edgbaston's setup doesn't break any rules - but it does nudge right up against the minimum.

And when you look at England's recent chasing history, it all starts to add up. They pulled off a famous fourth-innings chase of 378 against India at this very ground in 2022 - their highest in Test history. More recently, they hunted down 371 in Leeds, smashing 352 runs on the final day alone - the second-most ever scored on the fifth day of a Test. Only Don Bradman's Australia managed more, with 404 in 1948.

It's a trend that makes Finn's theory hard to dismiss. Whether the short boundaries were planned specifically for this Test or not, they certainly play into England's hands. And while it might be within the rules, the question remains: does it sit right with the spirit of the game?


- Ends
 
jnaveen1980 said:
No that is not as far as they could push. This was the Indiavs England match boundary. Stop giving excuses. Even English experets raised concerns for this second test about boundary.



Screenshot-2025-07-07-130849.jpg
Click to expand...

That isn't where the 59m boundary was though. The 59m boundary was square of the wicket in front of the Priory stand. Pull a screenshot of that and as I've been claiming you'll find it was as far out as it could physically be.

The boundary you've shown is 70m+ long. That corner of the ground you've screenshotted is one of the longest distances from the crease to the boundary fencing of any ground in the world hence why the advertising boarding is so far in.
 
HitWicket said:
That isn't where the 59m boundary was though. The 59m boundary was square of the wicket in front of the Priory stand. Pull a screenshot of that and as I've been claiming you'll find it was as far out as it could physically be.

The boundary you've shown is 70m+ long. That corner of the ground you've screenshotted is one of the longest distances from the crease to the boundary fencing of any ground in the world hence why the advertising boarding is so far in.
Click to expand...
Here is your square boundary view. I watched the match live completely.

Screenshot-2025-07-07-133113.jpg
 
rpant_gabba said:
Him giving excuses? you don't say.
Click to expand...
Ironically it is the English analysts that brought up this boundary subject before the 2nd test lol Little analysis exposes that they consistently play around with boundaries in important games to negotiate certain threat. It was specifically for Kuldeep. None of these guys read him well.
 
HitWicket said:
Thank you. As you can see the screens are right up against the covers and the rope is as far out as it can be, point proven.
Click to expand...
No proven lol There is a gap. THe photo from this angle won't show the gap between hoardings and boundary cushion.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
No proven lol There is a gap. THe photo from this angle won't show the gap between hoardings and boundary cushion.
Click to expand...

Of course there's a gap, it's the 3m minimum gap required between the hoardings and the boundary cushion, hence the rope is as far out as it can be.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
That is all commies were talking about at the beginning. THey said Edgbaston boundary ropes were unusually pulled well in. Boundary sizes were only 60 to 62 meters all around the ground
Click to expand...
Thanks. I did not watch most of the test.
 
I did not realize that Eng often changes boudaries as well. I knew about pitch, nothing new about it.
 
The two times England chased 370+ against India, the pitch was absolutely flat and India failed to take advantage of the same. In 2022, Indian top order collapsed and Pant/Jadeja combo took India to 400+. That pitch had something in it for the bowlers in the first innings. India also bowled well and took a 140 run lead. The problem was that on a flat wicket in the second Innings, India just collapsed and left England with just 370 to get.

In the first Test at Leeds, it was a flat wicket throughout and India failed to capitalise on good starts in both the innings. Losing 7 wickets in the first and 6 in the second for next to nothing. India knew that there will be another flat surface and decided to make sure they don't repeat the mistake this time. When India scored 600 in the first innings, England kind of went on the backfoot and started to panic. The third inning where India normally collapsed in the past did not happen either as they kept batting on and on tiring the fielders. England just lost at their own game in Birmingham. No point in crying about it now. They clearly knew what surface they were preparing.

Now that there is only 3 days between the two Tests, I don't think they have enough time to tamper with the pitch at Lords either. I am expecting another flat deck there as well. It will be another run fest. The only thing England might do is to bat first if they win the toss this time.
 
giri26 said:
The two times England chased 370+ against India, the pitch was absolutely flat and India failed to take advantage of the same. In 2022, Indian top order collapsed and Pant/Jadeja combo took India to 400+. That pitch had something in it for the bowlers in the first innings. India also bowled well and took a 140 run lead. The problem was that on a flat wicket in the second Innings, India just collapsed and left England with just 370 to get.

In the first Test at Leeds, it was a flat wicket throughout and India failed to capitalise on good starts in both the innings. Losing 7 wickets in the first and 6 in the second for next to nothing. India knew that there will be another flat surface and decided to make sure they don't repeat the mistake this time. When India scored 600 in the first innings, England kind of went on the backfoot and started to panic. The third inning where India normally collapsed in the past did not happen either as they kept batting on and on tiring the fielders. England just lost at their own game in Birmingham. No point in crying about it now. They clearly knew what surface they were preparing.

Now that there is only 3 days between the two Tests, I don't think they have enough time to tamper with the pitch at Lords either. I am expecting another flat deck there as well. It will be another run fest. The only thing England might do is to bat first if they win the toss this time.
Click to expand...
They can leave the more Grass on the pitch,this is what they can do . I hope India win the toss and Bowl first:kp
 
Devadwal said:
They can leave the more Grass on the pitch,this is what they can do . I hope India win the toss and Bowl first:kp
Click to expand...
Yeah leaving more grass will have some effect in the first innings with the ball until it dries out. Toss will be crucial. Hope India finally wins one this time.
 
Devadwal said:
They can leave the more Grass on the pitch,this is what they can do . I hope India win the toss and Bowl first:kp
Click to expand...
That's what I don't understand. Stokes asked for lively grass for more seam but temperatures are quite roasting as per everyone.it seems they are hoping to win the toss and screw the opposition. They are hoping pitch will settle by the second innings time .not a solid plan as they are ftbs and can't bat for their life on seaming tracks.
 
HitWicket said:
That isn't where the 59m boundary was though. The 59m boundary was square of the wicket in front of the Priory stand. Pull a screenshot of that and as I've been claiming you'll find it was as far out as it could physically be.

The boundary you've shown is 70m+ long. That corner of the ground you've screenshotted is one of the longest distances from the crease to the boundary fencing of any ground in the world hence why the advertising boarding is so far in.
Click to expand...
Anyone who watched the live last test match can tell you that boundary ropes changed for this test match to negotiate kuldeep in case he played. Dont need anyone explanation when that was clear case.

I already said this in match thread after The Test started. England is a cowardly team and stokes amis a sore losers.
:kp
 
According to PitchViz - our ball tracking model - there have only been three pitches flatter than this one, in England, since 2005.

There was quality bowling from India in pressure moments, but England only managing to bat 160 overs on that sort of surface is just killer.

:kp
 
The target was too much for them to chase on day 5 pitch no matter where they were playing... Either they could have played test match like a typical test match to try and draw the game or loose and they lost the game in the end...

I like how they never let go of Bazball which is an over-hyped thing so far.
 
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