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It's been one year since Mickey Arthur has been Pakistan's coach - What's your assessment so far?

idrizzy

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Mar 9, 2016
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Record:

Tour of England:
Drew Tests (2-2)
Lost ODIs (4-1)
Won T20 (1-0)

Pak v WI (in UAE)
Won T20s (3-0)
Won ODIs (3-0)
Won Tests (2-1)

Tour of NZ:
Lost Tests (2-0)

Tour of Aus:
Lost Tests (3-0)
Lost ODIs (4-1)

Tour of WI:
Won T20s (2-1)
Won ODIs (2-1)
Currently 1-1 in Tests


In my opinion we haven't enitrely improved in any aspect. I feel like we're capable of beating a 'top ODI side' 20% of the time, and tbh even our test record isn't one to be proud of. Only aspect I feel like we've done well in is our T20s, but that's a very hit-and-miss format. Our ODI team has sort of settled, and it'll be interesting to see how we do in CT, with a dismal yet slightly competitive squad.

Your thoughts?
 
No coach can do anything with this team..
We need a complete change..
Inzi the revolutionary selector isn't any wonders as well..
Selection has been poor.. Dont forget we have Azhar and Shehzad as our openers in CT.
Players who showed some promise are out because of fixing..
We have few domestic players but even they need sometime as well..
From bating to bowling everything need some work..
We look for messiahs thats the issue.. we need to work on our efforts to improve.
If we dont change ourselves no one can help us.
 
Poor and poor by each passing day.

If not for Arthur, Babar would have been playing at #6. Sharjeel wouldn't have revived his career. Hasan Ali would be still waiting for Debut. And Anwar Ali would have lived to his words 'Main Khelta Rahu Ga'.

Don't blame Arthur for incompetence of selectors. He has not been exceptional but can't say Poor for him atm. Let's wait for CT. A format where he has some say unlike Tests where he haven't had enough so far for obvious reasons.
 
It is easy to blame a Coach and it is easy to fire him. This only kicks the can down the road and fools the fan. Look at the Golden State Warriors of American NBA !!! They have been playing WITHOUT their Head Coach for more than a Month .... and absolutely demolishing the opponents during the end of the regular season and now in the playoffs !!!! What does that say about the role of a Head Coach ????? Hmmmm ...... !!!!!!
 
It is easy to blame a Coach and it is easy to fire him. This only kicks the can down the road and fools the fan. Look at the Golden State Warriors of American NBA !!! They have been playing WITHOUT their Head Coach for more than a Month .... and absolutely demolishing the opponents during the end of the regular season and now in the playoffs !!!! What does that say about the role of a Head Coach ????? Hmmmm ...... !!!!!!

Steve Kerr is out, but he's been managing GSW for more than 3 years.. in that time his 'philosophy' has been adopted for sure and with his Assistant in charge it's no real 'change' to the philosophy. Not to mention GSW have a team full of All Stars and should win with any coach in charge. KD, Curry, Klay and Green are all quality - they're like the Real Madrid of basketball - anyone can manage a team full of stars.

Bottom line: one year isn't enough to scrutinise a coach unless the team is regressing and/or other factors that a coach can't control. Just don't compare GSW to Pakistan lol
 
Absolutely terrible coach. He's very shrewd in using the media to create image of this "no nonsense" guy who means business. He's incompetent. Since he got hired by PCB he has not brought a single positive change in the team. He also interferes in team selection overriding the captain without having any knowledge of domestic players and team composition. Should be fired after WI tour.
 
It was obvious from Mickey Arthur's book that he wouldn't want Misbah and Younis because they are so inconsistent at this age, and because Misbah is an excessively conservative skipper.

But Homeworkgate meant that Mickey had to put up with Misbah running the Test team for a year.

The ODI squad, which Mickey controls, is doing predictably better.

But the Test team, which Misbah controls, is doing predictably badly.

The real test will be to see whether Mickey can literally rejuvenate the Test team with young blood after Dominica. If he has to take recycled thirty-something's like Fawad Alam or Mohammad Hafeez it will end in disaster.
 
Bad and getting worse by the minute. One year is more than enough time to start making a difference. Needs to be shown the door if we don't do well on the Sri Lanka tour after CT.
 
This thread is waiting for [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] input!
 
Decent in ODI's but pathetic in Tests.

Losing 7 out of our last 8 tests is unacceptable by any standards.

Although I do think he will have more breathing room if we win the last test and do reasonably well in the CT.
 
Decent in ODI's but pathetic in Tests.

Losing 7 out of our last 8 tests is unacceptable by any standards.

Although I do think he will have more breathing room if we win the last test and do reasonably well in the CT.


We are on our worst run ever in test history currently

And unbelievably two of those losses are against this West Indies side
 
It was obvious from Mickey Arthur's book that he wouldn't want Misbah and Younis because they are so inconsistent at this age, and because Misbah is an excessively conservative skipper.

But Homeworkgate meant that Mickey had to put up with Misbah running the Test team for a year.

The ODI squad, which Mickey controls, is doing predictably better.

But the Test team, which Misbah controls, is doing predictably badly.

The real test will be to see whether Mickey can literally rejuvenate the Test team with young blood after Dominica. If he has to take recycled thirty-something's like Fawad Alam or Mohammad Hafeez it will end in disaster.

and when he had called for one player (all the way way from Pak) for Aus ODIs , he chose Hafeez. bet thats also Misbah & Selector's mistake.
 
Poor. Just like other coaches in recent past.

What's worse is he's all talk and no action. ABSOLUTELY LOVES some oldies and TTFs.

Make no mistake, this is the team that Arthur wanted for champions trophy:

Shehzad
Azhar
Malik
Kicked out Sohail Khan
 
Very good coach. Limited overs side seems to be improving day by day. Only test side looks poor due to Misbah ''turtle'
 
don't know how people are saying our odi team is improving with a straight face. Got humiliated in Eng and Aus and have only beaten WI in this time.
 
Very good coach. Limited overs side seems to be improving day by day. Only test side looks poor due to Misbah ''turtle'

So why was the test side doing great before him while still under misbah then?
 
Pakistani cricket fans think that they experts of cricket. They love to share their opinions as to what tactics their coach and captain should take, who should be selected and what calls the coaches should have made, who must retire, who is unfit and which coach should lose their jobs.

As Gary Kirsten said "Coaches have only a 10% influence on the development progress of their player". A teams success depends on the quality and mindset of the players and not the coach.

Cricket coaches like Arthur are more cricket managers who should be making strategies and coaching is only a small part of their responsibilty. Arthur cannot be blamed for the lack of cricket talent in Pakistan. Pakistan is forced to recruit mediocre players and than expect these players to miraculousy overachieve.

No coach can change the fortunes of Pakistani cricket. Most young Pakistani cricketers making there debut are overweight and unfit. Pakistani fans have to come to terms with the fact that Pakistani cricket is in crisis because they simply lack talent
 
Errrr.......our ODI side is still in the dumps !! Anyone who thinks is obviously trolling........
 
What can a coach do when the team itself is poor? Our ODI team is getting better each day for sure but I see our test side regressing rapidly in the coming weeks.
 
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People who don't have the capacity to take all factors into account will blame Mickey for every terrorist attack or earthquake in Pakistan. But in reality things have been bad in Pakistan cricket for a long time now which they will not see.

From cricket at grass root level to selection at the top everything is messed up. Yes Mickey didn't live up to expectations till now but you cannot blame Mickey for the poor pitches in Pakistan, for the PCB only filling their pockets, for poor team selection by the national selectors etc. etc. Just take a look at the NCA and you will get the idea how things are run in Pakistan.

Yet Mickey is trying to build a team unlike his predecessors who just looked to survive till someone noticed we were at the bottom of the ODI rankings.
 
Lol at people defending Mickey, saying it's none of his fault.

While these same people used to swear and hate on the previous coaches like Whatmore and Waqar.

In principle, it's absolutely right that a coach cannot alone do anything. But HOW COME this did not apply to Waqar and Whatmore?!?!??!

I've been saying from the start that changing coaches will not do ANYTHING. Pcb is corrupt and our selection process is corrupt. We have 90s mentality. We have people who consider players like Malik to be the modern LOI batsmen.

ARTHUR unlike others however had A LOT of words to say about how he will change the team. And he has only recalled Ahmed Shehzad, Shan Masood, Axhar Ali and the similar one dimensional players.
 
Lol at people defending Mickey, saying it's none of his fault.

While these same people used to swear and hate on the previous coaches like Whatmore and Waqar.

In principle, it's absolutely right that a coach cannot alone do anything. But HOW COME this did not apply to Waqar and Whatmore?!?!??!

I've been saying from the start that changing coaches will not do ANYTHING. Pcb is corrupt and our selection process is corrupt. We have 90s mentality. We have people who consider players like Malik to be the modern LOI batsmen.

ARTHUR unlike others however had A LOT of words to say about how he will change the team. And he has only recalled Ahmed Shehzad, Shan Masood, Axhar Ali and the similar one dimensional players.

The problem in Pakistan is that everything gets blamed on the coach or the captain while the real culprits walk away and continue their luxury life.
 
The only way for Mickey to have an impact, firstly is to stay for longer, and especially needs full co-operation from the selectors, the status quo, haroon rasheed-iqbal qasim- wasim bari in disguise of a beard...inzi.

Obviously, the high point was 2-2 draw in Eng but credit for that goes to Waqar as well, to an extent.

He has done absolute nowt to bring our odi side into the 21st Cent. And for that inzi is to blame. You can only work with the 'khotays' that ur given.

T20...no shakers there either...they just soooo damn serious about this format...no invention, no ideas, no player introduction.

Tests...a bit in the balance but only fault I find is the slowness of our batting.


Basically, in a nutshell our issues with batting still exist in all formats..

Then again, it might all be too early yet, cos he is possibly still in phase 1 where hes trying to bring player's fitness up to scratch. Cue the dim witted Akmal.
 
The problem in Pakistan is that everything gets blamed on the coach or the captain while the real culprits walk away and continue their luxury life.

You're right. And the same hate was directed towards Waqar, Whatmore, others.

The hypocrisy arises when these same people were claiming Mickey is great, and that now, none of the team's constant failures are a fault of Mickey Arthur.

Why not have a single standard? If the team's horrendous show is not Arthur's fault, why do you have to say bad words about Waqar and Whatmore? It was none of their fault either. In fact the team did better under Waqar.

But unlike Whatmore/Waqar, Arthur claimed he's going to transform the team, that he will not allow those who play slow etc. etc.

He has done exactly the opposite - keep in mind that Arthur has full selection powers under Inzamam ul Haq. He can block and call any player he wants. He has already recalled Malik, Hafeez and blocked selection of Sohail Khan.
 
He has done absolute nowt to bring our odi side into the 21st Cent. And for that inzi is to blame. You can only work with the 'khotays' that ur given.


This is where most Arthur supporters go wrong.

Inzi has given full selection powers to coach/captain. And it's Mickey who has recalled several of the players - plus also blocked selection of players he doesn't like, e.g. Sohail Khan.
 
A mediocre team cannot be transformed into a world class unit with any magic spell. Whether it was Mickey or Waqar or whoever else, these results were bound to happen.
 
A mediocre team cannot be transformed into a world class unit with any magic spell. Whether it was Mickey or Waqar or whoever else, these results were bound to happen.

Correct.

But Arthur claimed he will transform the team, and he has been given selection powers by Inzi.

That's the difference from previous coaches.
 
What do you expect him to do with such a rubbish pool of players.

Pakistan team now is a bunch of rejects (bar Younis Khan) who couldnt make it when the likes of Inzi and Yousuf were dominating the middle order.
 
What do you expect him to do with such a rubbish pool of players.

Pakistan team now is a bunch of rejects (bar Younis Khan) who couldnt make it when the likes of Inzi and Yousuf were dominating the middle order.

But, the team was even worse under Waqar and Whatmore! :danish And they still managed to win ODIs against decent sides. Even beat SA in SA! Ind in Ind! :srt

How come it was fault of coaches of that era? And with the selection powers that Mickey has, why he hasn't acted on ANY of his promises?
 
no coach can do anything with this lot.

the lack of talent is frightening. this is the least attractive cricket team that has ever played for pakistan. all formats.

the test team is dour and not even solid with the exception of azhar.

the batting in odis and t20s is so dull that you feel like pulling your hair. the bowling is average at best. the fielding is atrocious to say the least. still have to hide at least two fielders away from the ball in core formats.

and the worst part is there is zero talent in the domestic scene as well in terms of fast bowlers.

we do not need a coach - we basically need a miracle.
 
But, the team was even worse under Waqar and Whatmore! :danish And they still managed to win ODIs against decent sides. Even beat SA in SA! Ind in Ind! :srt

How come it was fault of coaches of that era? And with the selection powers that Mickey has, why he hasn't acted on ANY of his promises?

Because Mickey didn't live up to expectations which I said in my post as well. He made the same mistakes. I do not know why or that his books are just books ( to sell).
But on the other side I do not see any other coach doing wonders with this team as well. Even though our OD team is looking better now (combination) it's still not performing to its potential.

This is ideal for the PCB though. They'll just replace the coach and continue things just as they are as most of us fans just do not get the picture.
 
Correct.

But Arthur claimed he will transform the team, and he has been given selection powers by Inzi.

That's the difference from previous coaches.

I don't think anyone with half a brain actually believed that though. Mickey can't create talent when there is no proper FC system in place and I think he's better than Waqar tactically. Once Misbah and YK are replaced with younger talents and Pakistan go back to the UAE, Pakistan will look impressive. Your ODI team is already better than it was.
 
But, the team was even worse under Waqar and Whatmore! :danish And they still managed to win ODIs against decent sides. Even beat SA in SA! Ind in Ind! :srt

How come it was fault of coaches of that era? And with the selection powers that Mickey has, why he hasn't acted on ANY of his promises?

Instead Mickey sahab wanted the return of Azhar to the ODI squad and dropped our best pacer Sohail Khan due to his personal dislike of SK.

No wonder he was fired from both his previous stints as coach. The team would have been better off without a coach rather than have MA at the helm.
 
All talk , zero substance.

I think pcb should stop wasting a lot of money on foreign coaches and hire a local cheap coach.
 
he did a lot of good stuffs though his bad stuffs are less but the impact outweighs the positives and good..

Positives:

Babar in all 3 formats at no.3
Sharjeel in all three formats which was thrown to the gutter by SK
Hasan ali to all three formats
Shehzad joining the league recently (because of his age and now with SK being lost MA is trying something, it is an experiment, not sure how good that will turn out)
shadab in all three formats
Azhar to open in tests
boldly tried shafiq at no.3 in tests
gave sami the chance in tests and kicked out hafeez from tests
got sarfraz to captain in LOIs and axed Azhar
realized hafeez and malik are not going to be dropped and trying to somehow accomodate them which i dont like
taking abbas for tests
dropping wahab from tests and ODIs quite often, hope eventually he is dropped forever


Negatives:

dropping sami for shaan masood
bringing back both the akmals in ODIs without any actual improvement
bringing back shehzad in all formats without any actual improvement
bringing back hafeez in LOIs
twice making hafeez to open and also promote him ahead of babar at no.3 in his return to the ODIs
still not a suitable one at no.4
he thought he fixed the opening troubles but destroyed by SK, which he is trying to fix that again with TTFs
wahab is still getting selected
still fixing the batting middle order in ODIs and not settling with a winning batting middle order (this has been a problem ever since Dave and Waqar's tenure was the terrible one)except babar at 3, malik at 5 no body knows where he will bat tmw in the middle order
 
Instead Mickey sahab wanted the return of Azhar to the ODI squad and dropped our best pacer Sohail Khan due to his personal dislike of SK.

No wonder he was fired from both his previous stints as coach. The team would have been better off without a coach rather than have MA at the helm.

Azhar isn't ideal, but he's a lesser problem than Ahmed Shehzad and Shan Masood. All three bad selections though.

But I'd still back Azhar to score runs in England. With some intent.

And yes, Azhar Mahmood and Mickey have a thing against S Khan, who is probably our most valuable LOI bowler, because he can swing and also hit with his batting. Probably due to the reported argument between them.
 
not very impressed. Drawing 2-2 was an amazing start but since then nothing.
 
Of the 2 cogs in PAK's team strategy - he has out performed Chief Selector by some margin, but must say, I had better expectations from him. He started well in UK tour, but quickly has learned how to keep his job safe & task comfortable.
 
Expected a lot from him, and he did nothing close to that.

2/10 Rating.

What did you expect ?

We've beaten the teams we're expected to beat, and lost to the teams we're expected to lose.

We weren't beating New Zealand on green tops or Australia away. We weren't beating England and Australia in ODIs who are miles ahead in that format.

We were expected to beat the West Indies in UAE in all formats, which we did, and we've beaten WI in LOIs away which you'd also back us to do. Test series is still live.
 
It's not entirely MA's fault. Pakistani players are mentally weak. They need to consult a sport psychologist.
 
It's not entirely MA's fault. Pakistani players are mentally weak. They need to consult a sport psychologist.

Lol.

You'll be taken seriously IF you said the same during Waqar and Whatmore era.

Those who criticized the previous coaches and trying to shift the blame away from Mickey have no credibility. In fact, under previous coaches, we won some ODIs against good sides.

And, those coaches had no selection powers either.
 
Some good decisions have been made and some poor ones have been made.

I think he's done a decent job. It's clear he's improved Babar and Hasan Ali. I think if he's allowed to work with younger players we will definitely see an improvement in our fortunes in all formats. But if he's asked to work with duds like Hafeez,Wahab, Kami,etc don't expect too much.
 
Record:
....


In my opinion we haven't enitrely improved in any aspect. I feel like we're capable of beating a 'top ODI side' 20% of the time, and tbh even our test record isn't one to be proud of. Only aspect I feel like we've done well in is our T20s, but that's a very hit-and-miss format. Our ODI team has sort of settled, and it'll be interesting to see how we do in CT, with a dismal yet slightly competitive squad.

Your thoughts?
Results falls in the correct places when little mandatory things are done properly. It is a process, like a marathon and certainly not a 40 yard dash. Success comes with time.

1. Fitness: to have the extra at the tail end of the innings. Has that improved?

2. Fielding: This is a must. This is the place were a team can improve without skills. One has to be fearless and committed.

+++
Rapid change in team lineup is detrimental to consistency. Selectors must have faith. However, it is beyond their control when players kill their own career with drugs and fixing. Retirement is an another issue as well.
+++
With all the circumstances, I think Mickey has done better than Waqar, Pakistan's last headcoach.
 
Well...assuming he has influence over inzi, these are the sort of batters/hackers/tullers he needd to inject into Odi side and esp T20:

Sharjeel
Latif
Shahzaib
Mukhtar
Awais Zia
Umar Akmal
Sohaib Max
Aamer Yamin
Hammad Azam

I know some of the above are off limits at the moment but thats the way to go...
 
What did you expect ?

We've beaten the teams we're expected to beat, and lost to the teams we're expected to lose.

We weren't beating New Zealand on green tops or Australia away. We weren't beating England and Australia in ODIs who are miles ahead in that format.

We were expected to beat the West Indies in UAE in all formats, which we did, and we've beaten WI in LOIs away which you'd also back us to do. Test series is still live.

I wasn't expecting us to lose a Test to WI in UAE and I was expecting us to clean sweep WI in both T20s and ODIs on this tour.

BTW, I wasn't talking about results and rather his selections.
 
People who don't have the capacity to take all factors into account will blame Mickey for every terrorist attack or earthquake in Pakistan. But in reality things have been bad in Pakistan cricket for a long time now which they will not see.

From cricket at grass root level to selection at the top everything is messed up. Yes Mickey didn't live up to expectations till now but you cannot blame Mickey for the poor pitches in Pakistan, for the PCB only filling their pockets, for poor team selection by the national selectors etc. etc. Just take a look at the NCA and you will get the idea how things are run in Pakistan.

Yet Mickey is trying to build a team unlike his predecessors who just looked to survive till someone noticed we were at the bottom of the ODI rankings.

One of the few quality posts here in a sea of drivel. As you argue, we have a professional coach in an unprofessional system. We don't give them the tools to succeed but end up scapegoating them anyway as we don't want to fix the underlying issues. I criticised Waqar heavily because he was tactically inept both as captain and coach but even I sympathised with the obstacles he faced.

However its true, ultimately a coach is going to be judged on results regardless of all these mitigating factors. Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe coaches all face the same problems and these coaches know what they're getting into when they accept the job.

In Tests, we've performed as expected. You'd expect us to beat WI in UAE, and lose to NZ on greentops. Australia away has always been a graveyard for any Pakistani coach. The only (pleasant) surprise is drawing in England. Anyway, the Test side's been Misbah's baby for 7 years regardless of coach. Arthur's Test record is best judged by how he builds the team post-Younis/Misbah.

The main test for Arthur is LOIs. To think Arthur could reverse our ODI fortunes in ONE year after EIGHT years of mediocrity is delusional and anyone who had that expectation were always going to be disappointed. But let's look at the ODI records (excl. Zimbabwe and teams ranked below them):

Dav Whatmore - Played 38, Won 17, Lost 19, Tied 1, N/R 1. W/L ratio of 0.894.
Waqar Younis 2nd Term - Played 31, Won 8, Lost 23. W/L ratio of 0.347.
Mickey Arthur - Played 17, Won 8, Lost 9. W/L ratio of 0.888.

Definitely improved from Waqar but Whatmore, despite all the criticism he received, remains our best ODI coach results-wise in recent times. Arthur's record will probably soon take a dip as the CT squad he, Sarfraz and Inzamam have agreed on is horrible. However he has been on the road non-stop since his appointment and as a foreign coach lacks familiarity with the domestic talent so I will give him some benefit of the doubt.

Additionally, he's lost three of our most explosive batsmen in Sharjeel, Latif and Shahzaib due to the fixing investigation. I doubt we'd see Azhar and Shehzad had those three not been suspended. That's where the selectors and captain need to help him but sadly they've reverted to "tried and tested" seniors instead of unearthing new faces.

Overall, Arthur should be given until the 2019 World Cup to implement his plans. He definitely should be there for our tour of South Africa in 2018/19 as he'll have familiarity with the conditions and opposition. We're on our SEVENTH coach since the 2007 World Cup, ELEVENTH Chief Selector in 7 years and SEVENTH full-time ODI captain in ten years. This is madness ! No organisation can be this unstable and expect better results.
 
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I wasn't expecting us to lose a Test to WI in UAE and I was expecting us to clean sweep WI in both T20s and ODIs on this tour.

BTW, I wasn't talking about results and rather his selections.

WI are still a decent T20 team, and are playing at home so to expect we'd clean sweep them in both LOI formats is a bit insulting to them.

Sharjah Test was a terrible performance but it was a dead rubber and meaningless in the bigger picture with half our focus on the NZ and Aus tours.
 
We are on our worst run ever in test history currently

And unbelievably two of those losses are against this West Indies side

Yes our test team is declining - not sure how anyone other than Mickey will do with this lot.

Hopefully we do well in the CT and the SL tour after that. Usman and Haris need game time asap to ease into the Test squad.
 
It was obvious from Mickey Arthur's book that he wouldn't want Misbah and Younis because they are so inconsistent at this age, and because Misbah is an excessively conservative skipper.

But Homeworkgate meant that Mickey had to put up with Misbah running the Test team for a year.

The ODI squad, which Mickey controls, is doing predictably better.

But the Test team, which Misbah controls, is doing predictably badly.

The real test will be to see whether Mickey can literally rejuvenate the Test team with young blood after Dominica. If he has to take recycled thirty-something's like Fawad Alam or Mohammad Hafeez it will end in disaster.

I absolutely agree. Never select your best domestic performer in history,
who scored 160 on international debut. He clearly hasn't got it in him to
scrap it out. Don't even try him for a few Tests when we have stars like
Umar Amin to cultivate.

Except isn't it the young blood that has let us down so far in this series?
Best bowler Yasir, best batsman, sort of, Misbah.
 
WI are still a decent T20 team, and are playing at home so to expect we'd clean sweep them in both LOI formats is a bit insulting to them.

Sharjah Test was a terrible performance but it was a dead rubber and meaningless in the bigger picture with half our focus on the NZ and Aus tours.

I have never understood this argument. "It was meaningless in the bigger picture with half our focus..."
As far as I recall the same argument was made for the NZ tour; meaningless Tests because we were then
focusing on Aus. In other words, it didn't matter that we lost A Test because...we then went on to loose B
Test too. So did we stop caring about our hallowed Test rankings now? May I suggest that we start "focusing"
on whatever series we happen to be playing at the moment?
 
One of the few quality posts here in a sea of drivel. As you argue, we have a professional coach in an unprofessional system. We don't give them the tools to succeed but end up scapegoating them anyway as we don't want to fix the underlying issues. I criticised Waqar heavily because he was tactically inept both as captain and coach but even I sympathised with the obstacles he faced.

However its true, ultimately a coach is going to be judged on results regardless of all these mitigating factors. Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe coaches all face the same problems and these coaches know what they're getting into when they accept the job.

In Tests, we've performed as expected. You'd expect us to beat WI in UAE, and lose to NZ on greentops. Australia away has always been a graveyard for any Pakistani coach. The only (pleasant) surprise is drawing in England. Anyway, the Test side's been Misbah's baby for 7 years regardless of coach. Arthur's Test record is best judged by how he builds the team post-Younis/Misbah.

The main test for Arthur is LOIs. To think Arthur could reverse our ODI fortunes in ONE year after EIGHT years of mediocrity is delusional and anyone who had that expectation were always going to be disappointed. But let's look at the ODI records (excl. Zimbabwe and teams ranked below them):

Dav Whatmore - Played 38, Won 17, Lost 19, Tied 1, N/R 1. W/L ratio of 0.894.
Waqar Younis 2nd Term - Played 31, Won 8, Lost 23. W/L ratio of 0.347.
Mickey Arthur - Played 17, Won 8, Lost 9. W/L ratio of 0.888.

Definitely improved from Waqar but Whatmore, despite all the criticism he received, remains our best ODI coach results-wise in recent times. Arthur's record will probably soon take a dip as the CT squad he, Sarfraz and Inzamam have agreed on is horrible. However he has been on the road non-stop since his appointment and as a foreign coach lacks familiarity with the domestic talent so I will give him some benefit of the doubt.

Additionally, he's lost three of our most explosive batsmen in Sharjeel, Latif and Shahzaib due to the fixing investigation. I doubt we'd see Azhar and Shehzad had those three not been suspended. That's where the selectors and captain need to help him but sadly they've reverted to "tried and tested" seniors instead of unearthing new faces.

Overall, Arthur should be given until the 2019 World Cup to implement his plans. He definitely should be there for our tour of South Africa in 2018/19 as he'll have familiarity with the conditions and opposition. We're on our SEVENTH coach since the 2007 World Cup, ELEVENTH Chief Selector in 7 years and SEVENTH full-time ODI captain in ten years. This is madness ! No organisation can be this unstable and expect better results.

This is pretty sloppy recounting. However uneasy some may have been ahead of the tour to NZ,
no one *expected* then that we would loose. We have always done well in NZ, which has not
in recent years become any more green toppy than it has always been. You argument is a post
hoc attempt to sweep some unpleasant failures under the carpet. And many were considerably
more optimistic about the Aus series than you account for. This was one of the weakest Aus sides
in recent memory, one which had just been humiliated at home by South Africa. I don't blame
any of this on Mickey, though I do hold him responsible. Because it is his job to carry responsibility.
But lets be honest about how we failed. That's the first step in getting better again.
 
This is pretty sloppy recounting. However uneasy some may have been ahead of the tour to NZ,
no one *expected* then that we would loose. We have always done well in NZ, which has not
in recent years become any more green toppy than it has always been. You argument is a post
hoc attempt to sweep some unpleasant failures under the carpet. And many were considerably
more optimistic about the Aus series than you account for. This was one of the weakest Aus sides
in recent memory, one which had just been humiliated at home by South Africa. I don't blame
any of this on Mickey, though I do hold him responsible. Because it is his job to carry responsibility.
But lets be honest about how we failed. That's the first step in getting better again.

We may have always done well in NZ, but the NZ that we faced is nothing like the previous ones. Sure they have their weaknesses, but post 2012 NZ have gone through a bit of a golden period, and their current team - even without the captaincy of McCullum - is arguably their finest in a long time. We failed to be beat them in the UAE as well. Their Test team is probably on par with ours at the moment, but hold a distinct edge on green-tops. A NZ win was certainly the most reasonable and educated expectation. As far as the Australian tour is concerned, the optimism of the majority was bordering on delusion and doesn't change the reality; Australia is a graveyard for bowlers these days and given the fact that our bowler attack is quite overrated as a unit, it was always going to be an uphill task. If anything, we exceeded expectations with the bat.

There is no denying that Mickey hasn't set the world alight, but we cannot ignore the fact that he couldn't have asked for a more challenging start. Tour of England, NZ and Australia in the first 12 months, and just one home series. It doesn't get tougher than that. It is far too early to make any conclusions on his tenure.The Litmus Test starts now: with Misbah and Younis out of the way and no tough tour coming up for a year or so, it is now time for him to walk the talk and stamp his authority on the team. The next 12 months will decide whether he is prepared to make a stand or is going to coast through his contract to keep his job safe, a bit like Whatmore.
 
My major problem with Mickey so far has been his irrational disdain for Sohail Khan, who has performed admirably in the sporadic opportunities that he has had. Yes, he is a liability in the third and fourth innings, but his inclusion in the third and fourth Tests in England sparked new life into our bowling attack and it is very disappointing that he has been neglected in ODIs for clowns like Junaid. His control over the new ball and ability to bowl penetrative spells is far greater. Not to mention, he can slog a few runs as well. Its not as if Junaid is the epitome of fitness himself. He has the physique of a malnourished 15 year old.
 
Some nice fabrication of history by the usual suspects in this thread

The New Zealand and australia sides we faced weren't some all time great line ups.

In fact both are among the weakest teams we have faced in eons.

The New Zealand away series should at worst have been a 1-1 draw. We choked in the second test and threw away a certain draw in the last half of the last day. If I didn't know any better you would think some fixing is going on. In that match we played incredibly defensive cricket and the strategies and team selection was all over the place. And to top it all off the New Zealand side is actually very average which has been on a downward spiral since MCCULLUMS retirement. Hilarious that a poster here is trying to put an impression that it is the Same team now as MCCULLUMS team. The first test was a on green wicket where we got dealt a bad hand batting first so you can understand but the manner of our folding was pathetic. Second test should have been won. There were runs made and the tactics were wrong.

It's almost tragic to see the loser mentality exhibited here. The New Zealand side was not great and we should have Atleast drawn the series.

Similarly the Australia series. This was the worst Australian side we have faced Atleast in my lifetime coming off the back of multiple series losses. We were playing a very inexperienced side on the best and easiest wickets in Australia that we have come across in most of our lifetimes. The Aussie side wasn't great and I refuse to believe that our side wasn't equipped to do better than a 3-0 whitewash. Again wrong team selections were made and some insanely bone headed tactics were employed especially in regards to tactics and field settings for Yasir. And the fact that we won several sessions in the series despite so many blunders shows that 1) the Australian side wasn't great as evidence by their 5 losses on the trot earlier, and, 2) if there had been some personnel changes and the correct tactics were used, we would have seen a better result

When we lost the Sharjah test to West Indies after barely winning the Abu Dhabi (?) test, Mickey Arthur had said that we will make up for these performances on New Zealand and Australia as we are already preparing for that and have their minds on it.

Pakistan has a proud history of test cricket and against New Zealand we have an envious record where we hadn't lost a series to them for over 30 years. This was one of our most settled sides that we took there and we lost. In the past we have come up with tougher conditions but managed to beat them so it is kind of disappointing to see the minnow mentality that people say that a 5-0 down under was expected and we shouldn't even discuss it. Losers!

The fact is that some people cannot acknowledge the fact that the more time is passing by the quality of cricket shown by this side is going down and it can only be explained by the effect of the men at the helm. England was certainly a tougher series than New Zealand yet we did better and even by the coach's own admission he had just carried on the tactics and work of the previous management and had not yet had enough time to 'take this talented side to the next level by playing an aggressive brand of cricket.'

By every metric Mickey Arthur's reign has been a disaster be it results (duh!), player development, team combinations or progress. However he has had a bigger say in selection than his predecessors and The only positive for me is the willingness to drop under performers. and introduction of new players in ODIs.

Also I think there is a huge conflict of interest with him that he has another coaching job beside Pakistan and with the state our team is in he needs to put full attention on this rather than earn a quick buck and maximise his earnings.
 
We may have always done well in NZ, but the NZ that we faced is nothing like the previous ones. Sure they have their weaknesses, but post 2012 NZ have gone through a bit of a golden period, and their current team - even without the captaincy of McCullum - is arguably their finest in a long time. We failed to be beat them in the UAE as well. Their Test team is probably on par with ours at the moment, but hold a distinct edge on green-tops. A NZ win was certainly the most reasonable and educated expectation. As far as the Australian tour is concerned, the optimism of the majority was bordering on delusion and doesn't change the reality; Australia is a graveyard for bowlers these days and given the fact that our bowler attack is quite overrated as a unit, it was always going to be an uphill task. If anything, we exceeded expectations with the bat.

There is no denying that Mickey hasn't set the world alight, but we cannot ignore the fact that he couldn't have asked for a more challenging start. Tour of England, NZ and Australia in the first 12 months, and just one home series. It doesn't get tougher than that. It is far too early to make any conclusions on his tenure.The Litmus Test starts now: with Misbah and Younis out of the way and no tough tour coming up for a year or so, it is now time for him to walk the talk and stamp his authority on the team. The next 12 months will decide whether he is prepared to make a stand or is going to coast through his contract to keep his job safe, a bit like Whatmore.

I don't necessarily disagree that one could have made an argument for their ability to win. I am pointing out that the general expectation ahead of the series, without the benefit of hindsight, was that we would win. It is simply not true to say that we were expected to loose ahead of the series. However optimistic, the expectation was that we would win, and then go on from there and do fierce battle with Australia.
 
It's hard to rate someone who has been given a knife for a gunfight, but let's look at this part by part.

The T20 side:
We've won every series in T20 since he took over with a just a solitary loss to the Windies. Granted the we've mostly played and undermanned team, but you can only beat what is in front of you. And not like Pakistan always take care of business when we are expected to, infact we are more likely to lose when facing a weaker team because complacency, playing for places, fixing etc, problems that other teams don't have are just excess baggage when coaching Pakistan.

But what has been positive is that we have seen a plan and an intent, a strategy being developed. It has been messed around with thanks to some weird selection and also the Sharjeel mess up, but we can see where this team is headed only if Inzamam would get his selection moving in a progressive direction rather than calling up the Akmals, Hafeezs etc.

The ODI's

Unfortunately he inherited a side way back in the doldrums couple that with inane selections and match fixing scandals, it's hard to get it going and still again one can see the direction where it's going. There is a plan and strategy which doesn't always get executed and is uprooted midway due to weird selection policies. One minute Sohail Khan is in the team, the other Junaid Khan is in the team. One minute Azhar Ali is the opener the next it's Kamran Akmal. He develops a middle order of Babar, Malik and Sarfaraz, the next series he is forced to accommodate Shafiq and Hafeez. Fact is we have a clueless selector who hasn't allowed any combination to settle and mostly messed with and rhythm that could have been achieved.

Test team
He inherited a very good test team which just got Amir back and a very settled middle order and young talents like Babar Azam and Sami Aslam to compliment that squad. And things have gone belly up since the last 6-7 months. The tour of England was great on the whole and the test series should and could have been won. The Windies series was obviously going great until the third test and it's been a dumpster fire ever since.

But the situation is such that he is stuck between a rock a hard place, the part that needed replacing the most, the middle order, it can't be replaced because respect must be given to the legends. Some average bowing has been persisted with for far too long and Abbas and Hasan Ali are a good six months late to the team, the line they bowl would have been much more useful in Australia and New Zealand than Wahab and Imran Khan.


In short you can't rate Mickey without first rating Inzimam, who has done a poor job of recycling the names and not made brave selections. There has been positives to the Mickey era, there is a subtle improvement in the fielding, it's not close to international standards but you don't get there overnight. You need the work done at grassroots and then incorporate those guys into your team, unfortunately neither is the work done at grassroots nor are young players incorporated into the team so that's the most you are gonna see with the current lot.

One can clearly see a plan and strategy to our limited overs cricket, it's not always executed well and gets messed around with due to selections and match fixing, but there is a plan and if it can be executed, I can see the LOI team doing wonders under Mickey. Incorporating young players like Zaman, Sahibzada, Talat, Usama, Yamin and getting rid of perpetual failures like Shehzad, Hafeez, Akmals etc would immediately improve the team and build one for 2019 World Cup but instead he has to deal with constantly regressive selections from Inzimam.

The test team, he has to take some blame for not being able to make it more attacking on the field while both fielding and batting. One can say that it's Misbahs style, but the team has suffered for it for the last 6-8 months and I would like the coach to take on Misbah for it.

All in all, I really like Mickey, if he had a progressive selector/Director of cricket to work with like a Wasim Akram who would actually take things forward rather than recycle like Inzimam we would be in a much better position. He has to face problems that other countries don't really do like political selections, poor fitness standards and then some crucial players fixing games and some of them getting caught too.

Unfortunately, if Pakistan lose the third test(quite possible) and perform poorly in the Champions Trophy (most likely) he will be sacked and we will have some Inzi bunny as the coach and we will go back to laissez faire team that Pakistans cricket culture is bound to produce.

Truth is we need more people like Mickey Arthur and them working in the academies and at lower levels like the U16, u19 and A teams, so by the time a product reached the senior team he is already at a level expected of International cricket. Instead Mickey has to spend 6-8 months on a player just to get him upto speed.
 
Everyone and his dog knew that we would be clean swept in australia , the two losses against westindies though are pathetic to say the least. One year has gone by , arthur has not been impressive but i would love to see how he manages the batsmen who will replace misbah and younis khan.
 
Some nice fabrication of history by the usual suspects in this thread

The New Zealand and australia sides we faced weren't some all time great line ups.

In fact both are among the weakest teams we have faced in eons.

The New Zealand away series should at worst have been a 1-1 draw. We choked in the second test and threw away a certain draw in the last half of the last day. If I didn't know any better you would think some fixing is going on. In that match we played incredibly defensive cricket and the strategies and team selection was all over the place. And to top it all off the New Zealand side is actually very average which has been on a downward spiral since MCCULLUMS retirement. Hilarious that a poster here is trying to put an impression that it is the Same team now as MCCULLUMS team. The first test was a on green wicket where we got dealt a bad hand batting first so you can understand but the manner of our folding was pathetic. Second test should have been won. There were runs made and the tactics were wrong.

It's almost tragic to see the loser mentality exhibited here. The New Zealand side was not great and we should have Atleast drawn the series.

Similarly the Australia series. This was the worst Australian side we have faced Atleast in my lifetime coming off the back of multiple series losses. We were playing a very inexperienced side on the best and easiest wickets in Australia that we have come across in most of our lifetimes. The Aussie side wasn't great and I refuse to believe that our side wasn't equipped to do better than a 3-0 whitewash. Again wrong team selections were made and some insanely bone headed tactics were employed especially in regards to tactics and field settings for Yasir. And the fact that we won several sessions in the series despite so many blunders shows that 1) the Australian side wasn't great as evidence by their 5 losses on the trot earlier, and, 2) if there had been some personnel changes and the correct tactics were used, we would have seen a better result

When we lost the Sharjah test to West Indies after barely winning the Abu Dhabi (?) test, Mickey Arthur had said that we will make up for these performances on New Zealand and Australia as we are already preparing for that and have their minds on it.

Pakistan has a proud history of test cricket and against New Zealand we have an envious record where we hadn't lost a series to them for over 30 years. This was one of our most settled sides that we took there and we lost. In the past we have come up with tougher conditions but managed to beat them so it is kind of disappointing to see the minnow mentality that people say that a 5-0 down under was expected and we shouldn't even discuss it. Losers!

The fact is that some people cannot acknowledge the fact that the more time is passing by the quality of cricket shown by this side is going down and it can only be explained by the effect of the men at the helm. England was certainly a tougher series than New Zealand yet we did better and even by the coach's own admission he had just carried on the tactics and work of the previous management and had not yet had enough time to 'take this talented side to the next level by playing an aggressive brand of cricket.'

By every metric Mickey Arthur's reign has been a disaster be it results (duh!), player development, team combinations or progress. However he has had a bigger say in selection than his predecessors and The only positive for me is the willingness to drop under performers. and introduction of new players in ODIs.

Also I think there is a huge conflict of interest with him that he has another coaching job beside Pakistan and with the state our team is in he needs to put full attention on this rather than earn a quick buck and maximise his earnings.

And [MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]: New Zealand has been a tough place for Asian teams recently. They beat India, Sri Lanka twice and Bangladesh. Some Pak fans still seem to view them as our punching bag from the 90s and 00s but it was always going to be tough facing a quality attack of Boult, Southee and Wagner - and especially given our historical weakness against lateral movement. The results would've been no different under Waqar, believe me.

The pitches were MUCH greener than 2011, 2009 and 2004. I watched all three of those Pakistan tours of NZ and never have I seen such grassy pitches laid out. We also had woefully inadequate preparation with our ONLY warm-up match rained off (thank you PCB). We tried an insane chase in the 2nd Test (though I recall PPers saying they'd rather lose 2-0 to NZ than not attempt that chase).

As for Australia, its true they were at a low ebb but they kicked out the deadwood after the South Africa defeat and brought in some quality young players like Renshaw and Handscomb. The bowling was horribly exposed on flat wickets and Misbah's on-field tactics were poor.

You can call it having low expectations or whatever but we've had ATG Pakistan teams tour Australia and still get beaten even when they had average teams as in 1981, 1983/84 and 1989/90. Obviously the manner of the SCG and MCG defeats were awful but Arthur's tenure shouldn't be judged on how well we tour Australia.

As for the team "getting worse in every metric" - which metric ? We've got a better ODI W/L record under Arthur than Waqar (who masterminded our first ever series defeat and whitewash to Bangladesh on the subject of historical records), the T20I team hasn't lost a series after the humiliating WT20 campaign under Waqar and the fielding has improved lately.

We'll get a better indication of Arthur's tenure after the Dominica Test and the post-Younis/Misbah phase. The LOI team has been badly hit by the suspensions of Sharjeel and Latif - the former was rapidly improving under Arthur, but there were signs of progress. We did win an ODI away to Australia for the first time since 2005. Arthur needs more time than one year to reverse the fortunes of an ODI team that's been mediocre for 8 years.

Overall, the man's had 3 of the hardest tours for an Asian team in his first 4 series. Obviously Test results were going to take a dip, as Arthur didn't get the chance to pad his stats in Asia like his predecessors.
 
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We'll get a better indication of Arthur's tenure after the Dominica Test and the post-Younis/Misbah phase. The LOI team has been badly hit by the suspensions of Sharjeel and Latif - the former was rapidly improving under Arthur, but there were signs of progress. We did win an ODI away to Australia for the first time since 2005. Arthur needs more time than one year to reverse the fortunes of an ODI team that's been mediocre for 8 years.
In these 8 years we have reached World Cup Semi Final, CT Semi Final, won the Asia Cup and won landmark series away to India and South Africa (first time for an Asian side.) So not sure where you are getting this 8 years from.

Overall, the man's had 3 of the hardest tours for an Asian team in his first 4 series. Obviously Test results were going to take a dip, as Arthur didn't get the chance to pad his stats in Asia like his predecessors.

Even in Asia he didnt pad his stats.

His net win/loss in Asia is +1 whereas it should have been +3. This despite West Indies being the weakest side ever to tour UAE for a test series.

Also I blelieve that we wouldnt have lost 5-0 down under. Arthur has some blame to take for Misbah's on field tactics. Also no sympathy for Sharjeel ban. That is part and parcel of being Pak coach
 
This NZ team is amongst the best they have produced with batsmen like Williamson (arguably their best ever) and a bowling attack of Boult, Southee and Wagner, which is as good as any pace bowling attack on green-tops. It is laughable to state this it is a mediocre team in decline. Right now, they are more than good enough of beating every Asian team at home.

Sure, they have their weaknesses especially in batting because of their reliance on Williamson, but it is still a superior team to Pakistan on green-tops especially because of their pace attack which is miles better than ours. It is completely delusional to think that Waqar would have influenced the outcome in Pakistan's favor.

Similarly, the Australian tour was a write-off before a ball was bowled. The delusions of a few posters who thought Pakistan would win 2-1 and Yasir Warne would bamboozle the Australian batsmen and Wahab would bowl like Johnson were entirely baseless. After three series defeats in a row and getting rid of the deadwood, a fresh and motivated Australian side was always going to be to hot for us on those flat pitches, simply because we cannot match their firepower with both bat and ball. As I said before, we actually exceeded the expectations with the bat.

Mickey should be sent to Hell for ending our winning streak against NZ, but tactical genius Waqar should get a free pass for doing the same in Bangladesh in 2015. Yes yes, that defeat was because of Azhar. And also, Waqar was a poor ODI coach but a brilliant Test coach. :))
 
I liked Waqar and he has had to face the same handicaps as other Pakistan coaches with some ridiculous selections. Waqar has his heart set in the right place as I genuinely think he wants to do well for Pakistan cricket and unlike other "legends" isn't in it for the money or positions of power, if PCB had half a brain they would have utilised him so much better and so much more, instead they have treated him like a pariah and instigated a media witch hunt against him.

Having said all that, some of his strategies in LOI's were simply laughable. Opening at the World Cup with Younis Khan and having Umar Akmal as a keeper, playing four seamers against India in 2016 on a turner with only Afridi as the lone spinner in the lineup while having Nawaz and Imad on the bench are two of the most prominent.

Most importantly during Waqar's reign, never did it feel like we had a plan or a strategy, it was always pulled together at the last minute hogwash, patch it up and hang it out there and hope for the best.
 
Most importantly during Waqar's reign, never did it feel like we had a plan or a strategy, it was always pulled together at the last minute hogwash, patch it up and hang it out there and hope for the best.

We are getting a continuation of the same with Mickey Arthur.
 
I would keep him for at least 5 years. Until 2021.

Why? because this team is in transition and I quite frankly expect them to lose a lot of games. Now that Misbah and Younis are leaving-the Test team is goign to take a step back too.

Unless you're in the room, you don't know what the conversations are. Inzi could be forcing the players on Arthur. Or vice-versa.

Here's the thing-this team and domestic structure is crap, and will remain so for a while. Here's the good news-we have the right people to fix it in there now, especially at NCA.

I think this is partly why PCB is so desperate to return international cricket to Pakistan. Series sell out at home, they don't sell out in the UAE. All that extra money would be paying for development (and Sethi's biryani diet).
 
Lol.

You'll be taken seriously IF you said the same during Waqar and Whatmore era.

Those who criticized the previous coaches and trying to shift the blame away from Mickey have no credibility. In fact, under previous coaches, we won some ODIs against good sides.

And, those coaches had no selection powers either.

Not saying MA is blame free, but it's just that Pakistan have a more pressing issue and elephant in the room to be removed.
 
And [MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION]: New Zealand has been a tough place for Asian teams recently. They beat India, Sri Lanka twice and Bangladesh. Some Pak fans still seem to view them as our punching bag from the 90s and 00s but it was always going to be tough facing a quality attack of Boult, Southee and Wagner - and especially given our historical weakness against lateral movement. The results would've been no different under Waqar, believe me.

The pitches were MUCH greener than 2011, 2009 and 2004. I watched all three of those Pakistan tours of NZ and never have I seen such grassy pitches laid out. We also had woefully inadequate preparation with our ONLY warm-up match rained off (thank you PCB). We tried an insane chase in the 2nd Test (though I recall PPers saying they'd rather lose 2-0 to NZ than not attempt that chase).

As for Australia, its true they were at a low ebb but they kicked out the deadwood after the South Africa defeat and brought in some quality young players like Renshaw and Handscomb. The bowling was horribly exposed on flat wickets and Misbah's on-field tactics were poor.

You can call it having low expectations or whatever but we've had ATG Pakistan teams tour Australia and still get beaten even when they had average teams as in 1981, 1983/84 and 1989/90. Obviously the manner of the SCG and MCG defeats were awful but Arthur's tenure shouldn't be judged on how well we tour Australia.

As for the team "getting worse in every metric" - which metric ? We've got a better ODI W/L record under Arthur than Waqar (who masterminded our first ever series defeat and whitewash to Bangladesh on the subject of historical records), the T20I team hasn't lost a series after the humiliating WT20 campaign under Waqar and the fielding has improved lately.

We'll get a better indication of Arthur's tenure after the Dominica Test and the post-Younis/Misbah phase. The LOI team has been badly hit by the suspensions of Sharjeel and Latif - the former was rapidly improving under Arthur, but there were signs of progress. We did win an ODI away to Australia for the first time since 2005. Arthur needs more time than one year to reverse the fortunes of an ODI team that's been mediocre for 8 years.

Overall, the man's had 3 of the hardest tours for an Asian team in his first 4 series. Obviously Test results were going to take a dip, as Arthur didn't get the chance to pad his stats in Asia like his predecessors.

It wasn't my intention to wade into the Mickey vs Waqar debate here. Otherwise you make some fair points. What I wanted to point is that we have rewritten the history of our own expectations when it comes to the Test team's performance in the last year. In hindsight, yes we might say that we should have expected the NZ tour to be tough, that Aus was always going to be difficult. But that wasn't the feeling ahead of those tours. As for Mickey's performance, what seems most questionable to me is, as Mamoon pointed out, his grudge against Sohail Khan, in parallel his ill advised faith in Rahat Ali, and the act that he did not seem to have fought very hard, at all, for Aslam. To see Shan back in the team is just outrageous.
 
It wasn't my intention to wade into the Mickey vs Waqar debate here. Otherwise you make some fair points. What I wanted to point is that we have rewritten the history of our own expectations when it comes to the Test team's performance in the last year. In hindsight, yes we might say that we should have expected the NZ tour to be tough, that Aus was always going to be difficult. But that wasn't the feeling ahead of those tours. As for Mickey's performance, what seems most questionable to me is, as Mamoon pointed out, his grudge against Sohail Khan, in parallel his ill advised faith in Rahat Ali, and the act that he did not seem to have fought very hard, at all, for Aslam. To see Shan back in the team is just outrageous.

To what extent would you blame Inzi for not selecting these people/the inclusion of deadwood (Shehzad, Akmals, J Khan etc)? My original post discounted the power associated with selectors and whatnot, and of course your answer to this question could be 'I don't know' because we're not the ones in the meetings to discuss this. But it'll still be interesting to hear since I feel that team selection during Waqar's reign was worse with Mickey's in LOIs but it can be improved by a lot. But is that because of Mickey or Inzi?
 
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