cricketjoshila
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Jai Shri Ram: The Hindu chant that became a murder cry
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Abdullah719
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Bajrang Dal leader, 3 others booked for 'assaulting' boy, forcing him to chant 'Jai Shri Ram' in Karnataka
A right wing activist who assaulted a minor boy for not chanting 'Jai Shri Ram’, at Kadumata school near Kolnadu in Vittal police station limits, was arrested on Friday by Vittal police. 25 year-old Dinesh Kanyana was arrested for assaulting and committing robbery. His three accomplices who are minors were sent to fit institution in Bondel, sources told DH.
Video clippings of Dinesh assaulting the minor for not chanting 'Jai Shri Ram' had gone viral on social media prompting the victim and his parents to file a complaint in Vittal police station. Senior police officials informed that a case of kidnap, assault and robbery was filed against Dinesh.
Dinesh a regular offender has cases of assault registered against him in same police station. Police sources added that the reason behind the assault is being investigated.
https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/st...-to-chant-jai-sriram-in-karnataka-843222.html
A right wing activist who assaulted a minor boy for not chanting 'Jai Shri Ram’, at Kadumata school near Kolnadu in Vittal police station limits, was arrested on Friday by Vittal police. 25 year-old Dinesh Kanyana was arrested for assaulting and committing robbery. His three accomplices who are minors were sent to fit institution in Bondel, sources told DH.
Video clippings of Dinesh assaulting the minor for not chanting 'Jai Shri Ram' had gone viral on social media prompting the victim and his parents to file a complaint in Vittal police station. Senior police officials informed that a case of kidnap, assault and robbery was filed against Dinesh.
Dinesh a regular offender has cases of assault registered against him in same police station. Police sources added that the reason behind the assault is being investigated.
https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/st...-to-chant-jai-sriram-in-karnataka-843222.html
Abdullah719
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Thrashed After Refusing to Chant Jai Shri Ram, Says Man in Bihar
In Bihar's Champaran, news of a Muslim man being forced to chant 'Jai Shri Ram' has emerged. Mohammad Israil from Mehsi has alleged that not only did some people compel him to chant ‘Jai Shri Ram’, but also tried to slit his throat.
Taking cognisance of the matter, the police has filed an FIR against six people. Israil is currently hospitalised and is being treated for his injuries.
Narrating the incident, he said that due to heavy rainfall in his village, there was no electricity, which is why he had gone to his friend’s house to charge his mobile phone.
“I had gone to a friend to get my phone charged. Some people surrounded me and told me to say ‘Jai Shri Ram’. When I protested, they attacked me with a knife on my head and neck. They were beating here and there like a football,” Israil told The Quint.
The Quint spoke to the station in-charge of Meshi, Avnish Kumar, who said, "This incident took place on 2 June. When we received the complaint, the FIR was filed. Investigation is on."
‘Left Israil Because They Thought He’s Dead’
Israel's brother, Tahir, also confirmed to The Quint that he got a severe injury on his head, which is why he is not able to talk as much.
Tahir said, “When the attackers thought that Israel had died, they ran away. Israil was then lodged in a government hospital in Mehsi. Because he was found in critical condition, he was referred to Muzaffarpur.”
He added, “Because of coronavirus, he was not being treated properly, so we came back to Motihari. He is now being treated in a private hospital. As of now, Israil is doing better than before.”
The six people that Israel has identified are Ram Gopal, Rahul Banarwal, Lakhan, Prince, Abhishek and Nitesh Singh. They have been said to belong to a nearby village called Bathna. Although, no one has been arrested in the case so far.
‘Being Framed’: Accused
One of the accused, Veer Prince, who is named in the FIR, told The Quint, "We are being wrongly accused. We were somewhere else when the incident took place. The issue is deliberately being given a communal spin.”
“...The boy who has been injured did not have a good impression in the locality. We had no enmity with Israil,” he added.
He added, "He used to speed on his motorcycle in this locality, we don't know who beat him up."
When The Quint asked the Prince if the accused belong to any group, he said they are associated with Bajrang Dal.
Golu Khilani, who claims to be the president of Bajrang Dal of Chakiya subdivision, Mehsi, said that because the accused are associated with Bajrang Dal, they are being framed.
https://www.thequint.com/news/india...with-knife-on-refusing-bihar-mehsi-hate-crime
In Bihar's Champaran, news of a Muslim man being forced to chant 'Jai Shri Ram' has emerged. Mohammad Israil from Mehsi has alleged that not only did some people compel him to chant ‘Jai Shri Ram’, but also tried to slit his throat.
Taking cognisance of the matter, the police has filed an FIR against six people. Israil is currently hospitalised and is being treated for his injuries.
Narrating the incident, he said that due to heavy rainfall in his village, there was no electricity, which is why he had gone to his friend’s house to charge his mobile phone.
“I had gone to a friend to get my phone charged. Some people surrounded me and told me to say ‘Jai Shri Ram’. When I protested, they attacked me with a knife on my head and neck. They were beating here and there like a football,” Israil told The Quint.
The Quint spoke to the station in-charge of Meshi, Avnish Kumar, who said, "This incident took place on 2 June. When we received the complaint, the FIR was filed. Investigation is on."
‘Left Israil Because They Thought He’s Dead’
Israel's brother, Tahir, also confirmed to The Quint that he got a severe injury on his head, which is why he is not able to talk as much.
Tahir said, “When the attackers thought that Israel had died, they ran away. Israil was then lodged in a government hospital in Mehsi. Because he was found in critical condition, he was referred to Muzaffarpur.”
He added, “Because of coronavirus, he was not being treated properly, so we came back to Motihari. He is now being treated in a private hospital. As of now, Israil is doing better than before.”
The six people that Israel has identified are Ram Gopal, Rahul Banarwal, Lakhan, Prince, Abhishek and Nitesh Singh. They have been said to belong to a nearby village called Bathna. Although, no one has been arrested in the case so far.
‘Being Framed’: Accused
One of the accused, Veer Prince, who is named in the FIR, told The Quint, "We are being wrongly accused. We were somewhere else when the incident took place. The issue is deliberately being given a communal spin.”
“...The boy who has been injured did not have a good impression in the locality. We had no enmity with Israil,” he added.
He added, "He used to speed on his motorcycle in this locality, we don't know who beat him up."
When The Quint asked the Prince if the accused belong to any group, he said they are associated with Bajrang Dal.
Golu Khilani, who claims to be the president of Bajrang Dal of Chakiya subdivision, Mehsi, said that because the accused are associated with Bajrang Dal, they are being framed.
https://www.thequint.com/news/india...with-knife-on-refusing-bihar-mehsi-hate-crime
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Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Another isolated case?
Joshila will find an eye witness who saw him do it himself....
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Muslims are forced to change their statements afterwards. Not a new thing.
Abdullah719
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Abdullah719
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“If there is any justice left in India, we will get it,” say Muslim youth beaten by mob in Maharashtra on accusations of animal theft
Malegaon: On the night of 22 July, 30-year-old Wasim Khan and 28-year-old Mubin Shaikh were returning to their village in Malegaon in Maharashtra. After entering Parola (a district in Maharashtra) and crossing the village Vasantwadi, they realized they had lost their way, forcing them to return. Upon returning, they found the road was blocked by bullock carts and a crowd of people. “As soon as our vehicle stopped at the place, the people gathered there immediately started attacking us. They tied us to a bush and beat us. They had thick sticks with them. Our hands and feet were injured. The beating continued for around one and a half hour,” Wasim told TwoCircles.net.
Wasim said when they had crossed the road earlier, there was no one there. “When we returned, we found many people on the road. We were shocked when they started to attack us,” Wasim said.
Mubin Shaikh, who is a driver by profession, told TwoCircles.net that they were going to their village which is 50 kilometres away. “There were a total of 11 animals in my vehicle. There were small animals also, so we had tied them. The moment we stopped our vehicle on the blocked road the mob hit me two-three times with sticks. I ran away from there. They came after me and brought me back to the village and they started beating me mercilessly on the road. They asked me to raise the slogan ‘Jai Shri Ram’ and they started abusing me. They beat me so much that I fell unconscious. One of my legs is fractured and one hand is fractured. They beat us with thick sticks,” he said.
Mubin said that the mob wanted to lynch them as they are Muslims.
“They were beating us so mercilessly as if we were inanimate objects. They wanted to just kill us. They were accusing us of theft and kept asking where have you got this? And how have you got this?” says Wasim, adding, “We kept pleading that those animals belonged to us and we had not stolen them. We had bought them. They were not ready to believe us.”
Narrating the ordeal of how police reached the location and rescued them, he says, “When they were interrogating me I told them there are others with me and let me call them. And I managed to make a phone call to one of my acquaintance Asif and told him of the incident. The mob had some conversation with him and started abusing him. Asif asked them the village’s name and he informed the police.”
Wasim said they did not raise the slogans as demanded by the mob and after police arrived, they were taken to the police station. “The police gave us medical treatment at the police station. They did not discriminate with us,” he added.
Wasim demands justice and says that what happened with them should not happen with anyone else. “The perpetrators should be punished and it should be ensured that such acts are not repeated with anyone else,” he said.
Mubin said the mob took their phones and stole their money. “They have returned one of the phones to the police, but the other one is still with them. We have raised this complaint with the police,” he said, adding, “We want justice and our loss must get recovered by the government.”
Speaking to TwoCircles.net, former Malegaon MLA, Asif Shaikh said that had the duo violated any law, the villagers should have handed them over to the police. “They (the attackers) had no right to take law in their hand,” he said.
Malegaon MLA Mufti Mohammed Ismail told TwoCircles.net that it is very sad that the duo was attacked like this without any proof or investigation. “The law should take action. Those who have beaten them and took them for thieves without any proof should be dealt with strictly by the law,” he said.
Shakeel Kazi, lawyer of Wasim and Mubin says, that “An offence got registered against Wasim and Mubin Shaikh for an offence punishable under section 11(1)(g), (h), (d), (k) of Cruelty to Animal Act 1960 along with section 5d of Maharashtra Preservation Act.”
“I got their bail. They were arrested by the police for that particular offence. After the beating, they were severely injured and could not be produced before the court. The incident happened on 22 July and they were produced before the JMFC Court, Parola on 23 July. Court asked them if they had complaints against police or anybody but they were very scared and did not say anything. They did not make any complaint against anybody,” Kazi said.
Kazi said although the police took the injured duo to the police but have not taken any suo moto cognizance.
“However, the video of the beating went viral on social media. A well-known activist from Jalgaon, Shaikh Farrukh showed this video to SP Jalgaon on 24 July. SP ordered to file an offence under section 307 of IPC against the villagers who had brutally beaten Wasim Khan and Shaikh Mubin,” Kazi said.
Following this, Kazi said that an FIR 116/2020 got registered against 19 villagers who are shown in the video clip, including over 100 unknown persons.
Kazi said that some of the villagers were arrested on 26 July. “The accused preferred the bail application and the same was entertained by LD (learned) JMFC. Police strongly objected to the application and argued that section 307 imposed on this matter is exclusively tried by Sessions Court but LD JMFC used his discretion and ordered to release the accused on bail. The state has moved an appeal under section 373 of CRPC before apex court (court of session Amalner Dist Jalgaon),” he said.
An appeal is filed to set aside the order passed by LD JMFC in remand report dated 26 July and also for cancellation of bail of the accused.
“We have appealed against the MCR given to those people. The hearing is on 30 July,” Kazi said.
Malegaon MLA Mufti Mohammed Ismail said, “Law must take action against people who beat these youths. Till these people aren’t punished these things won’t stop, which is why punishing them is necessary.”
For Mubin Shaikh, the case will determine if there is any justice for them. “If there is any justice left in India we will get it but if it is not we won’t get anything,” he said.
Source: twocircles
Malegaon: On the night of 22 July, 30-year-old Wasim Khan and 28-year-old Mubin Shaikh were returning to their village in Malegaon in Maharashtra. After entering Parola (a district in Maharashtra) and crossing the village Vasantwadi, they realized they had lost their way, forcing them to return. Upon returning, they found the road was blocked by bullock carts and a crowd of people. “As soon as our vehicle stopped at the place, the people gathered there immediately started attacking us. They tied us to a bush and beat us. They had thick sticks with them. Our hands and feet were injured. The beating continued for around one and a half hour,” Wasim told TwoCircles.net.
Wasim said when they had crossed the road earlier, there was no one there. “When we returned, we found many people on the road. We were shocked when they started to attack us,” Wasim said.
Mubin Shaikh, who is a driver by profession, told TwoCircles.net that they were going to their village which is 50 kilometres away. “There were a total of 11 animals in my vehicle. There were small animals also, so we had tied them. The moment we stopped our vehicle on the blocked road the mob hit me two-three times with sticks. I ran away from there. They came after me and brought me back to the village and they started beating me mercilessly on the road. They asked me to raise the slogan ‘Jai Shri Ram’ and they started abusing me. They beat me so much that I fell unconscious. One of my legs is fractured and one hand is fractured. They beat us with thick sticks,” he said.
Mubin said that the mob wanted to lynch them as they are Muslims.
“They were beating us so mercilessly as if we were inanimate objects. They wanted to just kill us. They were accusing us of theft and kept asking where have you got this? And how have you got this?” says Wasim, adding, “We kept pleading that those animals belonged to us and we had not stolen them. We had bought them. They were not ready to believe us.”
Narrating the ordeal of how police reached the location and rescued them, he says, “When they were interrogating me I told them there are others with me and let me call them. And I managed to make a phone call to one of my acquaintance Asif and told him of the incident. The mob had some conversation with him and started abusing him. Asif asked them the village’s name and he informed the police.”
Wasim said they did not raise the slogans as demanded by the mob and after police arrived, they were taken to the police station. “The police gave us medical treatment at the police station. They did not discriminate with us,” he added.
Wasim demands justice and says that what happened with them should not happen with anyone else. “The perpetrators should be punished and it should be ensured that such acts are not repeated with anyone else,” he said.
Mubin said the mob took their phones and stole their money. “They have returned one of the phones to the police, but the other one is still with them. We have raised this complaint with the police,” he said, adding, “We want justice and our loss must get recovered by the government.”
Speaking to TwoCircles.net, former Malegaon MLA, Asif Shaikh said that had the duo violated any law, the villagers should have handed them over to the police. “They (the attackers) had no right to take law in their hand,” he said.
Malegaon MLA Mufti Mohammed Ismail told TwoCircles.net that it is very sad that the duo was attacked like this without any proof or investigation. “The law should take action. Those who have beaten them and took them for thieves without any proof should be dealt with strictly by the law,” he said.
Shakeel Kazi, lawyer of Wasim and Mubin says, that “An offence got registered against Wasim and Mubin Shaikh for an offence punishable under section 11(1)(g), (h), (d), (k) of Cruelty to Animal Act 1960 along with section 5d of Maharashtra Preservation Act.”
“I got their bail. They were arrested by the police for that particular offence. After the beating, they were severely injured and could not be produced before the court. The incident happened on 22 July and they were produced before the JMFC Court, Parola on 23 July. Court asked them if they had complaints against police or anybody but they were very scared and did not say anything. They did not make any complaint against anybody,” Kazi said.
Kazi said although the police took the injured duo to the police but have not taken any suo moto cognizance.
“However, the video of the beating went viral on social media. A well-known activist from Jalgaon, Shaikh Farrukh showed this video to SP Jalgaon on 24 July. SP ordered to file an offence under section 307 of IPC against the villagers who had brutally beaten Wasim Khan and Shaikh Mubin,” Kazi said.
Following this, Kazi said that an FIR 116/2020 got registered against 19 villagers who are shown in the video clip, including over 100 unknown persons.
Kazi said that some of the villagers were arrested on 26 July. “The accused preferred the bail application and the same was entertained by LD (learned) JMFC. Police strongly objected to the application and argued that section 307 imposed on this matter is exclusively tried by Sessions Court but LD JMFC used his discretion and ordered to release the accused on bail. The state has moved an appeal under section 373 of CRPC before apex court (court of session Amalner Dist Jalgaon),” he said.
An appeal is filed to set aside the order passed by LD JMFC in remand report dated 26 July and also for cancellation of bail of the accused.
“We have appealed against the MCR given to those people. The hearing is on 30 July,” Kazi said.
Malegaon MLA Mufti Mohammed Ismail said, “Law must take action against people who beat these youths. Till these people aren’t punished these things won’t stop, which is why punishing them is necessary.”
For Mubin Shaikh, the case will determine if there is any justice for them. “If there is any justice left in India we will get it but if it is not we won’t get anything,” he said.
Source: twocircles
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Abdullah719
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IAJ
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Poor muslims, not safe in their own country.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Abdullah719
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List of Muslims killed or assaulted after refused to chant ‘Jai Shri Ram’
https://maktoobmedia.com/2020/08/05...ssaulted-after-refused-to-chant-jai-shri-ram/
https://maktoobmedia.com/2020/08/05...ssaulted-after-refused-to-chant-jai-shri-ram/
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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First of all its pretty clear these are not random incidents which happen once in 5 years. This is a huge problem which has started to happen quite frequently now.
Secondly when incidents like these happen and there are less chances of you getting justice because you are dealing with some jaahil hindutva goons then it creates fear and insecurity among the community.
This will continue to happen and in greater number as the North Indian illiterate Bhakts continue to vote for Bjp who fills their feeble mindS with Vicious religious fueled propaganda. Thank God I live in Kerala where I can eat whatever I want whether it’s beef, pork , whatever and there’s no one out to come and lynch me. I grew up with Hindus and muslims and we all ate meat together allmost for any community gatherings or events . We all respected each other’s boundaries but we didn’t enforce or force anyone to do anything against our will which is what should happen in a true democracy. Never understood what the big deal was until the last decade since Bjp came into power where these incident started to happen more and more.
JaDed
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You will be lynched in this case below, so freedom of speech isn't a thing, while Kerala is defn great but let's not get overboard..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_on_T._J._Joseph
Smbhayi
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It's happened 10 years ago.. How many after or before that?
Smbhayi
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First time reading that question, that's highly sensitive, he should've been more careful..
Fortunately the doctors could stitch back Mr Joseph’s hand back but the damage was already done.
Man lynched in Kerala on suspicion of theft: six held
https://www.thehindu.com/news/citie...gang-attack-five-arrested/article30324268.ece
Minorities Commission seeks report on alleged lynching of youth in Kerala
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/mi...-youth-in-kerala/amp_articleshow/68381272.cms
30-year-old becomes victim of mob lynching in Kerala
https://www.newindianexpress.com/st...victim-of-mob-lynching-in-kerala-2076986.html
Lynching/mob attack cases highest in Kerala: Minorities panel
https://indusscrolls.com/lynchingmob-attack-cases-highest-in-kerala-minorities-panel/
Though my aim is to not target any specific state but I find it hilarious when you generalize entire North Indians as 'Illiterate'. So Karnataka is also now belong to North Indian illiterate class because they voted for bjp?
Dont be a 'Frog in the well' man, grow up and widen you horizon and outlook. I have lots of friends from Kerala and nothing against the state where I have visited plenty of times. But I find these open generalizations extremely nauseating.
The reason majority voted for BJP bcoz people trust them. You need to counter BJP on issues that matters to people so that this trust can be broken and people vote them out of power. But calling all North Indians as illiterate bhakts for voting BJP, you are just questioning the intelligence and judgement of millions of North Indians. As a result it will backfire, like it did for Rahul Gandhi in Amethi and he ran away to Kerala to save face.
cricketjoshila
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RSS members have been attacked and killed in Kerala.
Smbhayi
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All parties members have been attacked and killed in Kerala (and it should stop), main reason why Kerala has highest number of Hartals in the country..
uberkoen
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I'm just curious. Why do people when approached to shout a silly slogan refuse to do so? I mean if someone threatened my life saying shout this slogan or I'll kill you. I'd shout it out load. It's not as if saying what I'm being forced to say will make me a non-Muslim or vice versa because I've also seen videos where Christians or Hindu's have been threatened to recite the Kalima and they refuse.
Just say it and get it over with. I mean what difference does it make? It's just words.
Just say it and get it over with. I mean what difference does it make? It's just words.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Would you give the same advice to Malala? If the Taliban tell you to stop broadcasting anti-Taliban messages on foreign media, just stop doing it. It's only words.
El Generico
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Isn’t it a telling sign that you had to go back by 10 years to prove your point while in other parts of India there seem to be cases like this every other day?
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El Generico
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Do you really think complying with a violent mob would make them stop? Like I pointed out in another thread, Tabriz Ansari tired to defuse the situation by chanting what they wanted but he was till tortured to death . Google his name if you are not familiar.
Obviously being forced to chant something does not make one a sinner but I highly doubt complying with thugs would make them stop. They would keep going further and further.
JaDed
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Sign of what? I did say Kerala is great but there are other Indian states as well which are peaceful I only said not to get overboard.
uberkoen
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Two absolutely different situations. Can't even compare the two.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Well you could if you wanted to, but obviously you don't because you made such a disgusting excuse for violent mob law in the first place. Namaste.
uberkoen
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Not really. One requires you to chant some silly words that have no meaning to you in order to save your life. The other is highlighting the atrocities committed by a terrorist organisation. Two completely different things.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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What if they ask you to drink one of their favorite beverage after you successfully chant 'Jai Shri Ram' to save your life? What if they start to misbehave with your mothers and sisters after you drink that beverage? There is no ending. You should not defend these jaahil bhakhts who call themselves hindus and tarnish the image of Lord Rama in India.
CricketCartoons
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Agreed. Blame must go to victim first for being stubborn.
That is because most of these cases are fake news and propaganda. I am not saying people from minorities dont get attacked but they dont get attacked for only refusing to recite the slogan. There are more to the story but media only reports the sloganeering bit because that suits their agenda.
Take Tabrez Anasir for example, we were told he was only lynched because he refused to say 'Jai Shree Ram' but the reality was he was caught stealing bike and villagers tied him to the tree and attacked. What villagers did was wrong as they have no right to take law into their hand but I am very sure if a hindu boy caught stealing he will beaten up as well. The way media potrayed it as if Tabrez was killed only bcoz he refused the sloganeering but that was not true at all.
But when Palgarh hindu Sadhus got lynched, same media made us belief that there is no religious angle to it and they only got lynched bcoz they were stealing young kids from village. Irony.
Everyone in India understands and realize the hypocracy of left wing biased media and the way they potray the news.
India is a country of 1.5 billion people and people of all religion gets attacked in one off cases. But saying 'Jai Shri Ram' is becoming a war crime is far from truth. People like us who lives in India very knows that all is well here...sab changa si.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Ah I see. So it's ok to get shot in the face as long as you are speaking against a terrorist organisation.
)
IMMY69
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That is because most of these cases are fake news and propaganda. I am not saying people from minorities dont get attacked but they dont get attacked for only refusing to recite the slogan. There are more to the story but media only reports the sloganeering bit because that suits their agenda.
Take Tabrez Anasir for example, we were told he was only lynched because he refused to say 'Jai Shree Ram' but the reality was he was caught stealing bike and villagers tied him to the tree and attacked. What villagers did was wrong as they have no right to take law into their hand but I am very sure if a hindu boy caught stealing he will beaten up as well. The way media potrayed it as if Tabrez was killed only bcoz he refused the sloganeering but that was not true at all.
But when Palgarh hindu Sadhus got lynched, same media made us belief that there is no religious angle to it and they only got lynched bcoz they were stealing young kids from village. Irony.
Everyone in India understands and realize the hypocracy of left wing biased media and the way they potray the news.
India is a country of 1.5 billion people and people of all religion gets attacked in one off cases. But saying 'Jai Shri Ram' is becoming a war crime is far from truth. People like us who lives in India very knows that all is well here...sab changa si.
Fake news propaganda folks...Nothing more to see here
Greenstorm
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A true mard-e-momin always prefers honour over survival.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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As long as we have educated fools like him defending mob lynching in India 'sab changa si'.
El Generico
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That is because most of these cases are fake news and propaganda. I am not saying people from minorities dont get attacked but they dont get attacked for only refusing to recite the slogan. There are more to the story but media only reports the sloganeering bit because that suits their agenda.
Take Tabrez Anasir for example, we were told he was only lynched because he refused to say 'Jai Shree Ram' but the reality was he was caught stealing bike and villagers tied him to the tree and attacked. What villagers did was wrong as they have no right to take law into their hand but I am very sure if a hindu boy caught stealing he will beaten up as well. The way media potrayed it as if Tabrez was killed only bcoz he refused the sloganeering but that was not true at all.
But when Palgarh hindu Sadhus got lynched, same media made us belief that there is no religious angle to it and they only got lynched bcoz they were stealing young kids from village. Irony.
Everyone in India understands and realize the hypocracy of left wing biased media and the way they potray the news.
India is a country of 1.5 billion people and people of all religion gets attacked in one off cases. But saying 'Jai Shri Ram' is becoming a war crime is far from truth. People like us who lives in India very knows that all is well here...sab changa si.
There are videos where we can see that he was forced to chant Hindu Slogans. Would the same happen if the victim was Hindu? Clearly the mob has aware of his religious beliefs and it would be naïve to think that they didn't play a part in fueling their anger.
El Generico
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Exactly, it’s funny that [MENTION=107753]uberkoen[/MENTION] thinks that a violent mob would just peacefully disperse if you chant would they want. In most cases, the mob would keep demanding more and more.What if they ask you to drink one of their favorite beverage after you successfully chant 'Jai Shri Ram' to save your life? What if they start to misbehave with your mothers and sisters after you drink that beverage? There is no ending. You should not defend these jaahil bhakhts who call themselves hindus and tarnish the image of Lord Rama in India.
BreadPakoda
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That’s not how it works, brother. You would lose your dignity and also your life. I much rather die with dignity than without it.
BreadPakoda
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That is because most of these cases are fake news and propaganda. I am not saying people from minorities dont get attacked but they dont get attacked for only refusing to recite the slogan. There are more to the story but media only reports the sloganeering bit because that suits their agenda.
Take Tabrez Anasir for example, we were told he was only lynched because he refused to say 'Jai Shree Ram' but the reality was he was caught stealing bike and villagers tied him to the tree and attacked. What villagers did was wrong as they have no right to take law into their hand but I am very sure if a hindu boy caught stealing he will beaten up as well. The way media potrayed it as if Tabrez was killed only bcoz he refused the sloganeering but that was not true at all.
But when Palgarh hindu Sadhus got lynched, same media made us belief that there is no religious angle to it and they only got lynched bcoz they were stealing young kids from village. Irony.
Everyone in India understands and realize the hypocracy of left wing biased media and the way they potray the news.
India is a country of 1.5 billion people and people of all religion gets attacked in one off cases. But saying 'Jai Shri Ram' is becoming a war crime is far from truth. People like us who lives in India very knows that all is well here...sab changa si.
Ya. Hindu khatre mei hai. Powerless and voiceless in their own country. The media goons are against them. The anti national Arnabs, Sudhirs, Rajats, Swetas, Subhash Chandras etc. etc.
uberkoen
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Care to explain to me how you would lose your dignity by shouting out a meaningless slogan?
Didn't people do the same at the time of the Prophet which gave rise to the concept of taqiyya
Slog
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You usually post thought provoking counter arguments which are difficult for most posters here but this really is a stupid post.
You are assuming that the mob is operating rationally. Asking you to shout a phrase is just a ruse and if they won’t get you for that then they will ask for something else till they get what you want.
You really are thinking naively here.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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CricketCartoons
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I support you for asking the victims to be smarter, but offended by your mocking my religion.. it is no meaningless slogan.
CricketCartoons
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Hindus have always been at the receiving end. Hindutva is basically hinduism which resists and defends itself. For the first time we are seeing the rise of pro hindu media as resistance against the pseudo seculars.
uberkoen
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Apologies. Did not mean to offend anyone. What I mean is that for a Muslim it will be meaningless as he would not really believe in what he's saying and would just be saying it to get away from all the trouble
Cpt. Rishwat
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Interestingly, that would bring them more into alignment with hindu culture which is also sometimes referred to as bagal men churi mun pein ram ram. Seems like a win win situation.
uberkoen
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Taqiya is allowed is Islam
Cpt. Rishwat
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Yes that is the part I said would be in alignment with hindu culture. There is no conflict here.
Zaz
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The hardline hindutvas carrying out mob violence are despicable cowards going around in groups terrorising people
Abdullah719
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‘Say Jai Shri Ram’, Killers of Muslim Man in NCR Said, Police Deny Murder Was Hate Crime
Noida: On Sunday, at around midnight, 20-year-old Mohammad Sabir was told by the police that they had found the lifeless body of his father, Aftab Alam, tied to the side of his own car.
Sabir wasn’t entirely surprised to hear this, he says. A few hours earlier, he had sensed that something was wrong when he received an unusual call from his father – who didn’t utter a word after he picked up the phone. Sabir heard “drunk” men on the other end of the phone asking his father if he would like to drink. Alam said ’no’, Sabir heard.
The men then asked him his name, according to Sabir. By then, having sensed that something was wrong, he began recording the call. In the audio file of the call available with The Wire, at 8:39 minutes, one of the men can be heard saying, “Jai Shri Ram bol, bol Jai Shri Ram”.
The chant has become the rallying cry of violent Hindutva action and has preceded several lynchings.
Sabir heard no conversation after that. But 11 minutes later, at the 19:41 minute mark, one of the men can be heard saying, “Saans ruk gayi.” ‘He has stopped breathing.’
“My father had gone to drop one of his old clients at Bulandshahr yesterday at around 3 pm. He made the drop at around 7 pm and left for home. On the way he called me and told me to recharge his Fast Tag. I did that at around 7:30 pm and then after a while I got a call again, I think this was from near a toll booth. He had probably sensed that some men he had come across were not the right sort of people, so he called me and possibly put the mobile phone in his pocket,” said Sabir.
Sabir recorded the call for the next 40 minutes, till his father’s phone apparently switched off. He immediately went to the nearest police station, Mayur Vihar Phase I, and asked for help.
“Sub-inspector Sanjay sir helped me when I told him about the matter. He immediately started tracking my father’s mobile phone and accessed the last location of the SIM card,” said Sabir.
This ‘last location’ was near Badalpur police station, where the police found Aftab Alam’s bruised, lifeless body. He was taken to a nearby hospital.
Sabir broke down upon recalling the sight of his dead father. “His tongue area was badly bruised, ears were bleeding, there was a big cut on his face. This is clearly a case of mob lynching,” he said, using the phrase which has come to symbolise hate crimes in India. “But the police has only registered a robbery case.”
Sabir added, “We are Muslims, but we have a right to live.”
However, the Badalpur police station house officer denied that it was a case of “mob lynching” or “hate crime” and said that the case is being investigated.
The FIR, registered on the same night, charged the anonymous assaulters under sections 394 (voluntarily causing hurt in committing robbery) 302 (punishment for murder) and 201 (causing disappearance of evidence of offence, or giving false information to screen offender).
It is not clear how Alam came across the perpetrators or who and how many they were.
A devoted father, keen on sons’ education
Aftab Alam was a resident of Trilokpuri, Noida had been working as a driver since 1996. Driving was his main livelihood. He has a wife, his three sons, ailing parents and two siblings, all of whom depend on him and Sabir financially.
During the lockdown, Alam had not stepped out due to fear of contracting and spreading the coronavirus, said his family. However, when a family friend, an old client, called him up to ask if he could drop them from Gurgaon to Bulandshahr in Uttar Pradesh, he could not refuse. Having earned no money during the lockdown and struggling to make ends meet, Alam thought that the trip would be a good idea.
Alam’s younger sons, Mohammad Shahid, 19, and Mohammad Shajid, 17, along with Sabir, are bright students who had secured good marks in their board examinations.
Sabir is a third year B.Com student in the School of Open Learning, University of Delhi. Shahid and Shajid study at Ahlcon Public School in Mayur Vihar, and they scored 76% and 92% marks respectively in their Class 10 board examinations.
Alam’s father, 65-year-old Mohammad Tahir, said, “Had it been a case of robbery, why wouldn’t they take the car? They would have stolen the car and thrown his body out on the street. This was clearly a case of mob lynching. They only took the mobile phone.”
Shahid is preparing for his NEET exams and said his father’s only goal was to make sure that his children get a good education.
“I am a student who studies in a good school through the Economically Weaker Sections quota. Even during this health crisis, my father had managed to pay our fees with his minimal earnings. My brother, Shajid is preparing for the JEE next year,” said Shahid.
“In his career as a driver, he never had one fight with anybody. He went to work, came back home, invested in his sons’ education and that was it. He never even visited other people’s houses because he spent all his time earning money for us,” he added.
Pointing to the kitchen in his house, he said, “At this time, we are short of ration at home but look at my bookshelf. My father, despite not having enough money to manage food for the house, bought me books and notebooks worth Rs 1,800.”
Shajid, the youngest son and the “brightest” according to the family said, “When we both got our Class 10 results, Shahid had secured lesser marks than me. But my father took out a note of Rs 1,000 and asked us to take Rs 500 each, without giving me preference for securing better marks. He showed faith in both of us and knew that he [Shahid] would also make him proud someday.”
Alam’s mother, 60-year-old Najmu Nisa wondered how the house would function now.
Alam’s wife, Rehana Khatoon, 36, had only come to know of his death on Monday afternoon. Khatoon said she wanted justice for her husband. Consoling his mother Shahid said he would find a way of securing that. “I will speak to my teachers at school, they will come up with a solution. What has happened has happened. Now we will deal with what happens,” the 19-year-old said.
Alam’s last rites were performed at 5.30 pm on Monday.
https://thewire.in/communalism/jai-shri-ram-muslim-driver-lynched-death-uttar-pradesh
Noida: On Sunday, at around midnight, 20-year-old Mohammad Sabir was told by the police that they had found the lifeless body of his father, Aftab Alam, tied to the side of his own car.
Sabir wasn’t entirely surprised to hear this, he says. A few hours earlier, he had sensed that something was wrong when he received an unusual call from his father – who didn’t utter a word after he picked up the phone. Sabir heard “drunk” men on the other end of the phone asking his father if he would like to drink. Alam said ’no’, Sabir heard.
The men then asked him his name, according to Sabir. By then, having sensed that something was wrong, he began recording the call. In the audio file of the call available with The Wire, at 8:39 minutes, one of the men can be heard saying, “Jai Shri Ram bol, bol Jai Shri Ram”.
The chant has become the rallying cry of violent Hindutva action and has preceded several lynchings.
Sabir heard no conversation after that. But 11 minutes later, at the 19:41 minute mark, one of the men can be heard saying, “Saans ruk gayi.” ‘He has stopped breathing.’
“My father had gone to drop one of his old clients at Bulandshahr yesterday at around 3 pm. He made the drop at around 7 pm and left for home. On the way he called me and told me to recharge his Fast Tag. I did that at around 7:30 pm and then after a while I got a call again, I think this was from near a toll booth. He had probably sensed that some men he had come across were not the right sort of people, so he called me and possibly put the mobile phone in his pocket,” said Sabir.
Sabir recorded the call for the next 40 minutes, till his father’s phone apparently switched off. He immediately went to the nearest police station, Mayur Vihar Phase I, and asked for help.
“Sub-inspector Sanjay sir helped me when I told him about the matter. He immediately started tracking my father’s mobile phone and accessed the last location of the SIM card,” said Sabir.
This ‘last location’ was near Badalpur police station, where the police found Aftab Alam’s bruised, lifeless body. He was taken to a nearby hospital.
Sabir broke down upon recalling the sight of his dead father. “His tongue area was badly bruised, ears were bleeding, there was a big cut on his face. This is clearly a case of mob lynching,” he said, using the phrase which has come to symbolise hate crimes in India. “But the police has only registered a robbery case.”
Sabir added, “We are Muslims, but we have a right to live.”
However, the Badalpur police station house officer denied that it was a case of “mob lynching” or “hate crime” and said that the case is being investigated.
The FIR, registered on the same night, charged the anonymous assaulters under sections 394 (voluntarily causing hurt in committing robbery) 302 (punishment for murder) and 201 (causing disappearance of evidence of offence, or giving false information to screen offender).
It is not clear how Alam came across the perpetrators or who and how many they were.
A devoted father, keen on sons’ education
Aftab Alam was a resident of Trilokpuri, Noida had been working as a driver since 1996. Driving was his main livelihood. He has a wife, his three sons, ailing parents and two siblings, all of whom depend on him and Sabir financially.
During the lockdown, Alam had not stepped out due to fear of contracting and spreading the coronavirus, said his family. However, when a family friend, an old client, called him up to ask if he could drop them from Gurgaon to Bulandshahr in Uttar Pradesh, he could not refuse. Having earned no money during the lockdown and struggling to make ends meet, Alam thought that the trip would be a good idea.
Alam’s younger sons, Mohammad Shahid, 19, and Mohammad Shajid, 17, along with Sabir, are bright students who had secured good marks in their board examinations.
Sabir is a third year B.Com student in the School of Open Learning, University of Delhi. Shahid and Shajid study at Ahlcon Public School in Mayur Vihar, and they scored 76% and 92% marks respectively in their Class 10 board examinations.
Alam’s father, 65-year-old Mohammad Tahir, said, “Had it been a case of robbery, why wouldn’t they take the car? They would have stolen the car and thrown his body out on the street. This was clearly a case of mob lynching. They only took the mobile phone.”
Shahid is preparing for his NEET exams and said his father’s only goal was to make sure that his children get a good education.
“I am a student who studies in a good school through the Economically Weaker Sections quota. Even during this health crisis, my father had managed to pay our fees with his minimal earnings. My brother, Shajid is preparing for the JEE next year,” said Shahid.
“In his career as a driver, he never had one fight with anybody. He went to work, came back home, invested in his sons’ education and that was it. He never even visited other people’s houses because he spent all his time earning money for us,” he added.
Pointing to the kitchen in his house, he said, “At this time, we are short of ration at home but look at my bookshelf. My father, despite not having enough money to manage food for the house, bought me books and notebooks worth Rs 1,800.”
Shajid, the youngest son and the “brightest” according to the family said, “When we both got our Class 10 results, Shahid had secured lesser marks than me. But my father took out a note of Rs 1,000 and asked us to take Rs 500 each, without giving me preference for securing better marks. He showed faith in both of us and knew that he [Shahid] would also make him proud someday.”
Alam’s mother, 60-year-old Najmu Nisa wondered how the house would function now.
Alam’s wife, Rehana Khatoon, 36, had only come to know of his death on Monday afternoon. Khatoon said she wanted justice for her husband. Consoling his mother Shahid said he would find a way of securing that. “I will speak to my teachers at school, they will come up with a solution. What has happened has happened. Now we will deal with what happens,” the 19-year-old said.
Alam’s last rites were performed at 5.30 pm on Monday.
https://thewire.in/communalism/jai-shri-ram-muslim-driver-lynched-death-uttar-pradesh
Abdullah719
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Tribal Christians tonsured and forced to chant ‘Jai Shri Ram’ in Jharkhand village
Seven tribal Christians were allegedly beaten, partially tonsured and forced to chant “Jai Shri Ram” in a Jharkhand village on the unproven allegation that they had slaughtered a cow.
Although the incident happened on September 16 and a police complaint was lodged the next day, the matter became public only on September 25 when former zilla parishad member and social activist Neel Justin Beck told a local news portal about it.
Police confirmed the incident. Shams Tabrez, the superintendent of police in Simdega district where the attack took place, said four of the nine accused named in the FIR had been arrested and the rest would be picked up soon. The FIR also mentions 10 unnamed accused.
Jharkhand had witnessed the lynching of several tribal people and Muslims on unsubstantiated charges of cow slaughter or beef possession during the tenure of its previous BJP-led government (2014-19). This is the first reported communal attack since the JMM-Congress-RJD-Left alliance came to power last December.
Deepak Kullu, 26, a tribal Christian from Bherikudar in Simdega, about 145km southwest of Ranchi, said a group of more than 25 stick and rod-wielding people had entered the village early on September 16 morning. The men were apparently residents of nearby villages.
Deepak said: “I saw them beating a villager, Raj Singh Kullu, and hurling caste-based expletives at his wife Jacqueline Kullu. When I sought an explanation, they started mouthing caste-based expletives at me too and accused us of slaughtering cows.”
“Raj continued to plead that no one had killed any cows. But the mob showed us what seemed a fake video of an elderly man from a neighbouring village saying he had seen cows being slaughtered in our village.”
Deepak alleged the mob dragged him and six other Christian tribal men from the village to neighbouring Mahato Tola, about half a kilometre away, all the while slapping and beating them with sticks and forcing them to chant “Jai Shri Ram”.
At Mahato Tola, they were made to squat under a tree and had portions of their heads shaved by the mob.
Cow slaughter was banned in Jharkhand by a 2005 law, which the state’s erstwhile BJP-led government began strictly enforcing since 2017.
“The attackers called the local Simdega police station, accusing us of cow slaughter. The police arrived in a few minutes and took us to the police station,” Deepak said.
“The police searched our homes but could not find any trace of cow slaughter and released all of us later in the day. The next day, Jacqueline lodged complaints with Simdega police station and the district SC/ST police station.”
Police officer Tabrez said: “A case has been registered under the SC/ST Act and several Indian Penal Code sections. A special investigation team led by the sub-divisional police officer is conducting raids to arrest the remaining accused.”
Beck, the activist, identified the seven victims as Raj, Deepak, Emmanuel Tete, Sugad Dang, Sulin Barla, Soshan Dang and Sem Kido.
Rabindra Prasad Singh, officer in charge of Simdega police station, said the nine named accused were Nayan Keshri, Sonu Singh, Sonu Nayak, Tulsi Sahu, Shrikant Prasad, Deepak Prasad, Aman Keshri, Rajendra Prasad and Nakul Patar.
]“We have arrested Sonu Singh, Sonu Nayak, Nayan and Rajendra so far,” he said. “We searched every house whose occupants were accused of cow slaughter but found nothing conclusive.”
Rabindra said the victims did not suffer serious injuries in the beating, and none of them needed medical attention.
Source: telegraphindia
Seven tribal Christians were allegedly beaten, partially tonsured and forced to chant “Jai Shri Ram” in a Jharkhand village on the unproven allegation that they had slaughtered a cow.
Although the incident happened on September 16 and a police complaint was lodged the next day, the matter became public only on September 25 when former zilla parishad member and social activist Neel Justin Beck told a local news portal about it.
Police confirmed the incident. Shams Tabrez, the superintendent of police in Simdega district where the attack took place, said four of the nine accused named in the FIR had been arrested and the rest would be picked up soon. The FIR also mentions 10 unnamed accused.
Jharkhand had witnessed the lynching of several tribal people and Muslims on unsubstantiated charges of cow slaughter or beef possession during the tenure of its previous BJP-led government (2014-19). This is the first reported communal attack since the JMM-Congress-RJD-Left alliance came to power last December.
Deepak Kullu, 26, a tribal Christian from Bherikudar in Simdega, about 145km southwest of Ranchi, said a group of more than 25 stick and rod-wielding people had entered the village early on September 16 morning. The men were apparently residents of nearby villages.
Deepak said: “I saw them beating a villager, Raj Singh Kullu, and hurling caste-based expletives at his wife Jacqueline Kullu. When I sought an explanation, they started mouthing caste-based expletives at me too and accused us of slaughtering cows.”
“Raj continued to plead that no one had killed any cows. But the mob showed us what seemed a fake video of an elderly man from a neighbouring village saying he had seen cows being slaughtered in our village.”
Deepak alleged the mob dragged him and six other Christian tribal men from the village to neighbouring Mahato Tola, about half a kilometre away, all the while slapping and beating them with sticks and forcing them to chant “Jai Shri Ram”.
At Mahato Tola, they were made to squat under a tree and had portions of their heads shaved by the mob.
Cow slaughter was banned in Jharkhand by a 2005 law, which the state’s erstwhile BJP-led government began strictly enforcing since 2017.
“The attackers called the local Simdega police station, accusing us of cow slaughter. The police arrived in a few minutes and took us to the police station,” Deepak said.
“The police searched our homes but could not find any trace of cow slaughter and released all of us later in the day. The next day, Jacqueline lodged complaints with Simdega police station and the district SC/ST police station.”
Police officer Tabrez said: “A case has been registered under the SC/ST Act and several Indian Penal Code sections. A special investigation team led by the sub-divisional police officer is conducting raids to arrest the remaining accused.”
Beck, the activist, identified the seven victims as Raj, Deepak, Emmanuel Tete, Sugad Dang, Sulin Barla, Soshan Dang and Sem Kido.
Rabindra Prasad Singh, officer in charge of Simdega police station, said the nine named accused were Nayan Keshri, Sonu Singh, Sonu Nayak, Tulsi Sahu, Shrikant Prasad, Deepak Prasad, Aman Keshri, Rajendra Prasad and Nakul Patar.
]“We have arrested Sonu Singh, Sonu Nayak, Nayan and Rajendra so far,” he said. “We searched every house whose occupants were accused of cow slaughter but found nothing conclusive.”
Rabindra said the victims did not suffer serious injuries in the beating, and none of them needed medical attention.
Source: telegraphindia
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Mesozoic
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Please check who's in power in Jharkhand.
Why does your location happen to always change based on what us reported in the news.
Mesozoic
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What are you even on about? What location change?
You asked whether "we guys voted these thugs in" but this happened in a left (Congress RJD) ruled state. So what was your point then ?
Mr. Simpleton.
Doesn't your location within India always seems to change based on news..
If bad news about Punjab is discussed, you are from the south. Bad news from the south and you are from Punjab.
Did you learn from Joshila?
I remember Jai Shri Ram used to be a chant filled with devotional flavour. Now thanks to the bigots, it has reduced to just being a warcry or something which is used to target the minorities.
How could a chant with Lord Ram in it, be hate filled for fellow human beings?
How could a chant with Lord Ram in it, be hate filled for fellow human beings?
CricketCartoons
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Jai Shri Ram was also a war cry. A war cry of good against evil. People who are surprised should read Ramayan.
Mesozoic
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Oh my good god.
When did I say I'm from Punjab? And when did Jharkhand become a Southern state?
Stop man. You're giving me second hand embarrassment.
Oh my good god.
When did I say I'm from Punjab? And when did Jharkhand become a Southern state?
Stop man. You're giving me second hand embarrassment.
Where did I mention it specifically being from the south? I just gave you an example of how you change to suit agenda. Don't worry, it's nothing new. Your colleagues here all do the same. Joshilla is on full spin today.
El Generico
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Crazy thing is that, this wasn’t done by some random mob but the Indian armed forces.
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You have Comprehension issues.
The example you gave actually suits his agenda if he wanted to use it. He just didn't want to follow the same path of point scoring and stated the obvious.
Romali_rotti
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Growing up heard "Ram Ram" quite frequently as a common and pleasant greeting from Indian soldiers from Haryana.
Many years later heard the same from a RSS chadhidhari and it sounded so harsh and repulsive- Hinduvta can make anything abhorrent.
Many years later heard the same from a RSS chadhidhari and it sounded so harsh and repulsive- Hinduvta can make anything abhorrent.
Mesozoic
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So basically no proof showing this was done by the Indian army.. lol
What proof? Kashmir wallah reported it... it has to be the truth. They follow the highest standards of journalism. Not like Republic and zee TV.
.png "Kumar Sangakkara :sanga")
Romali_rotti
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What proof? Kashmir wallah reported it... it has to be the truth. They follow the highest standards of journalism. Not like Republic and zee TV.
Ohhh Kashmirwala reported it, right, must be legit then..
Abdullah719
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Vegitto1
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I keep saying it again and again, until and unless Indian Muslims don't take up arms to defend themselves against these RSS losers, they will continue to suffer. Our ancestors kept them in check through force and fear, they just need a reminder of that.
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Major
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bump.
so same chants were shouted at Rizwan when he got out in modi stadium
so same chants were shouted at Rizwan when he got out in modi stadium
DeadlyVenom
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Do the Hindus chanting these slogans believe that getting Rizwan out was a victory to Lord Rama?
I know Rizzy is such a divisive figure but I never realised his status was such that when he gets out.
I know Rizzy is such a divisive figure but I never realised his status was such that when he gets out.
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Bewal Express
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- Nov 6, 2005
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I am happy for this chant to continue If it makes our Hindu friends not kill innocent people. I suppose when you have been ruled for close to a 1000s years by the Moghuls and the British, you get excited with a bit of power
Justcrazy
ATG
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South India people are more educated , the North Indians shouting and killling others are uneducated both in secular as well as Religious books.
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
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- May 8, 2010
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A timely bump, although perhaps not so much for our hindutva contributors.
gani999
First Class Star
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The equivalent slogan in islam has already become the chant associated with terrorism all over the world. What are you going to do about that?
Stewie
Test Debutant
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- Nov 28, 2008
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The world is already doing a lot about that killing Muslim children in particular. Question is will you do something about it before it gets to the point it did with us? Or will nip it in the bud?
Or will you join the Hindu jihadis?
gani999
First Class Star
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A lot of hindus say jai shri ram while praying everyday too, and some hindus also say it when they get emotional, like when they are celebrating or are attacked.
Muslim extremists have said allahu akbar before killing innocents in western countries. So it is working the same way.
KingKhanWC
Test Captain
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- Jan 2, 2010
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Hindu extremists havent said this when lynching or beating people? People can say what they like, it doesnt mean the words are correctly used. But you seem to think so when it comes to Muslims but not Hindus?
Imo unless its a child, woman or ederly, no man should allow Veggie extremists to abuse them, they havent had a global empire for a reason, they are not combat skilled or have the genetics.
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