What's new

James Anderson can't swing it without saliva: lessons for Pakistan on the new reality

Junaids

Senior T20I Player
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Runs
17,956
Post of the Week
11
There are probably big, big lessons for Pakistan from the First Test at Southampton, and they relate to what the ball does - and doesn't do.

Ashish Nehra and Irfan Pathan have commented that:

1. The Dukes Ball does not seem to swing normally when moistened with sweat instead of saliva.

2. The ball also does not reverse at all.

3. Jimmy Anderson quickly gave up on his normal style and started bowling short as if he was in Australia (where the Kookaburra doesn't swing for him).

There are clear lessons for Pakistan from this:

1. Medium-paced swing bowlers like Mohammad Abbas and Sohail Khan probably will fail in these conditions.

2. Reverse swing bowlers like Wahab Riaz will also almost certainly fail too.

3. The main danger seemed to come from extra pace and especially extra lift. That's why Archer was more dangerous than Wood. Shaheen becomes Pakistan's key bowler, but after that they probably need to look at the extra pace of Naseem Shah and - if he ever passes a Covid test - Haris Rauf, who has the extra pace and bounce.

==

If the bio-secure first Test between England and the West Indies is any indicator then fast bowlers across the globe should forget about reverse swing for the time being, feels former India pacer Irfan Pathan.

For another India veteran Ashish Nehra, Jimmy Anderson consistently bowling short of length was an indicator that even conventional swing was bit of a problem due to lack of saliva during the first international cricket match amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

The ICC banned the use of saliva to shine the ball due to the threat of COVID-19 infection.

"Jimmy Anderson was bowling short of length at times and he never bowls such short of length. Because the Dukes ball wasn't swinging.

"The reason being lack of shine with no saliva being allowed and whenever he tried pitching up, the Windies batsmen were driving easily," Nehra told PTI on Monday.

"Not being able to use saliva when there isn't much perspiration will be a problem. Anderson's strength is to pitch it up and get it to swing which leads to caught behind and slip catches. He looked half the bowler when it stopped swinging " said Nehra.

Irfan Pathan on lack of reverse swing in Southampton

Pathan, after watching Mark Wood and Jofra Archer bowl on the fifth day under bright sunshine, feels that for sometime, bowlers should "forget about getting reverse with the old ball".

"Since saliva is thicker, it affects reverse swing more than conventional swing which requires sweat for shining the ball. Till the pandemic is there and the rule stays, the bowlers will have it a bit tougher than usual," Pathan, one of India's premier swing bowlers said during an interaction.

So what's the solution according to Irfan? "Simple. Allow use of external substance or else for sometime forget that reverse swing exists. Make pitches that will be conducive to seam bowling."

"If you ask me keep a bit of moisture to make it 60/40 in favour of bowlers. If there's moisture, the ball would grip the surface and then both sweat and saliva are out of equation.

"Aap phir seam hit karo, harkat hoti rahegi (hit the seam and ball will move around). Or else there will be dead rubbers," Pathan explained.

Indian pacers will have a bigger challenge in Australia: Deep Dasgupta

As the discussion veered towards how the kookaburra would behave in Australia, former wicketkeeper Deep Dasgupta expressed an apprehension that bowlers across teams may have more problems.

"The Australian tracks are flat and the kookaburra seam will flatten after 20 overs. With no saliva, it will be a more onerous task as there won't be reverse swing available.

"Indian pacers will have a bigger challenge to deal with double pressure," Dasgupta said.

When Pathan was asked about Australian conditions and Dasgupta's observation, he said that "finding the right length/good length on those tracks is the most important aspect."

In turn, when Dasgupta was told Pathan's suggestion of keeping tracked moisture laden, he slightly differed.

"Too much of moisture can create indents on the pitch and batting in the fourth innings may just become a challenge. Better to have two new balls from both ends. That allows spinners to get more purchase and bounce off the pitch," the former stumper said.

Nehra partly agreed with Dasgupta.

"It could well mean that the ball will just hold its line and move straight," he said.

"Look Josh Hazlewood or Bhuvneshwar Kumar will have problems which a Kagiso Rabada or Archer won't because they have pace," Nehra reasoned.

Nehra also feels that any batsman's Test average should be classified into two distinct phases -- the pre-COVID era when saliva was allowed and the post-COVID phase.

"In ODIs, when you see Sachin Tendulkar, mind it you need to put his average into perspective. He played mostly with one white ball and five fielders outside the circle," Nehra said.

On reverse swing in Australia, Nehra feels that sweat could do the job as conditions will be drier.

"My problem again is not reverse swing in Australia. You can do that with a 40-over old ball but what will you do to keep the shine for conventional swing when it's new.

"So after watching the first (England-West Indies) Test, I can say, not allowing saliva can have significant impact," he said.

Source:https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...-irfan-pathan-ashish-nehra-1700176-2020-07-13
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pakistan should select Hasnain.

Im backing this boy to do well if he gets a run in this series
 
I’m afraid to see the Pakistan batting lineup getting out cheaply against Archer.

He looks in great touch.
 
Last edited:
The saliva ban and dry out should help Pakistan out. It will make pitches flatter and more like Asian conditions, allowing for Pakistani batsmen to score big. Anyone else feel the same?
 
The saliva ban and dry out should help Pakistan out. It will make pitches flatter and more like Asian conditions, allowing for Pakistani batsmen to score big. Anyone else feel the same?



Agreed, but unless 2-3 of them have major series, we will always be catching up to what England scores against us. As for giving chances to Hasnain or Harris (as suggested by others), I don't think they are test materials, yet!

Best bet will be to go with Abbass (his style of attcking stumps and seam this or that way even an inch or two will still work) and Shaheen and Naseem. Wahab is a spent force (as if he was that good ever anyway) who barely can do any damage after the first few overs...where he is basically pitching halfway down the pitch without much accuracy or intent!

In my opinion, Pakistan will lose when Yasir gets tgo bowl and is ineffective (which he lately has been a lot)...I wish we had a decent offie in the team (I don't consider Bilal to be a threatening option as an offie) or someone like Zafar Gohar !
 
Source:https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...-irfan-pathan-ashish-nehra-1700176-2020-07-13

There are probably big, big lessons for Pakistan from the First Test at Southampton, and they relate to what the ball does - and doesn't do.

Ashish Nehra and Irfan Pathan have commented that:

1. The Dukes Ball does not seem to swing normally when moistened with sweat instead of saliva.

2. The ball also does not reverse at all.

3. Jimmy Anderson quickly gave up on his normal style and started bowling short as if he was in Australia (where the Kookaburra doesn't swing for him).

There are clear lessons for Pakistan from this:

1. Medium-paced swing bowlers like Mohammad Abbas and Sohail Khan probably will fail in these conditions.

2. Reverse swing bowlers like Wahab Riaz will also almost certainly fail too.

3. The main danger seemed to come from extra pace and especially extra lift. That's why Archer was more dangerous than Wood. Shaheen becomes Pakistan's key bowler, but after that they probably need to look at the extra pace of Naseem Shah and - if he ever passes a Covid test - Haris Rauf, who has the extra pace and bounce.

You’re kidding? Abbas can seam the ball far better than anyone else in the team. Haris has barely ever taken any first class wickets, how do you expect him to set a batsman up with pure pace and bounce? The guy is excellent for limited overs as he knows how to contain runs at the death with yorkers wide yorkers and bouncers, and beating batsmen with pace for a mishit. This is not a skill needed in Test Cricket where batsmen will just play him out until his pace drops down to 135-140 range after the first spell
 
Agreed, but unless 2-3 of them have major series, we will always be catching up to what England scores against us. As for giving chances to Hasnain or Harris (as suggested by others), I don't think they are test materials, yet!

Best bet will be to go with Abbass (his style of attcking stumps and seam this or that way even an inch or two will still work) and Shaheen and Naseem. Wahab is a spent force (as if he was that good ever anyway) who barely can do any damage after the first few overs...where he is basically pitching halfway down the pitch without much accuracy or intent!

In my opinion, Pakistan will lose when Yasir gets tgo bowl and is ineffective (which he lately has been a lot)...I wish we had a decent offie in the team (I don't consider Bilal to be a threatening option as an offie) or someone like Zafar Gohar !

Totally agree with your assessment. As for spinner, Yasir is definitely done for. I'd go with Kashif Bhatti, as long as he can keep it tight and perform an Abdur Rehman type role he should be good.
 
You’re kidding? Abbas can seam the ball far better than anyone else in the team. Haris has barely ever taken any first class wickets, how do you expect him to set a batsman up with pure pace and bounce? The guy is excellent for limited overs as he knows how to contain runs at the death with yorkers wide yorkers and bouncers, and beating batsmen with pace for a mishit. This is not a skill needed in Test Cricket where batsmen will just play him out until his pace drops down to 135-140 range after the first spell

The ball doesn't seam in England in August. That's the problem. It never has.

Nehra's comment about "Anderson looking half the bowler without saliva" should be playing on the mind of the Pakistanis: we saw in both South Africa and Australia that Abbas is toothless at his 128K pace when the ball isn't moving. And it's not going to move.

Watch the next two Tests at Old Trafford, but if I were Misbah, I'd be thinking that I use three strike bowlers (Shaheen for height and Naseem and Haris for pace) combined with Faheem and Shadab to bowl economical spells at the other end to keep the strike bowlers fresh.

It looks like Abbas and Wahab and Sohail and Shinwari are out of the equation on these pitches without saliva to work the ball.
 
We need to look at what Holder and Gabriel did.
Gabriel is your classic hit the deck bowler with pace and bounce. Can hit the seam as well for movement
Holder has bounce and can seam it. He also swings the ball more than anybody in the world.
I would also say the West Indians are used to using sweat instead of saliva, as it is hotter in the Carribean than in England obviously
 
Can’t drop Abbas he gets movement off the seam!

If the bowl does not swing it’s advantage Pakistan
 
Interesting.

Jimmy was bowling under sunshine in WI’s second innings of course, and the outfield was damp from the rain so you wouldn’t expect reverse anyway.

But if this is true, that’s his career over.
 
These observations are based on one series where Anderson mostly bowled under the sun. I will hold onto judgement for a while more
 
These observations are based on one series where Anderson mostly bowled under the sun. I will hold onto judgement for a while more

One match

And Anderson didn’t bowl too badly anyway. He’s acting as if Anderson has a stinker
 
Conditions favoured swing bowling when West indies bowled first and they, especially Holder, got quite a bit of swing. Didn't swing much on the last 3 days for anyone. Not sure saliva(or lack thereof) is responsible for the lack of swing.






)
 
He's a different with cloud cover in typical English conditions. He's called Clouderson for a reason.
 
I think people are so bored that they’re over analysing everything and drawing conclusions after just one test match.
 
The ball doesn't seam in England in August. That's the problem. It never has.

Nehra's comment about "Anderson looking half the bowler without saliva" should be playing on the mind of the Pakistanis: we saw in both South Africa and Australia that Abbas is toothless at his 128K pace when the ball isn't moving. And it's not going to move.

Watch the next two Tests at Old Trafford, but if I were Misbah, I'd be thinking that I use three strike bowlers (Shaheen for height and Naseem and Haris for pace) combined with Faheem and Shadab to bowl economical spells at the other end to keep the strike bowlers fresh.

It looks like Abbas and Wahab and Sohail and Shinwari are out of the equation on these pitches without saliva to work the ball.

Wahab can bowl quick, and bouncers, without the use of reverse swing.

And he's a better batsman than Faheem.

My attack:

Shaheen, Abbas, Naseem and Wahab.

My 11:

Shan
Abid
Azhar(unfortunately)
Babar
Asad
Rizwan
Shadab
Wahab
Shaheen
Abbas
Naseem
 
This is a totally different point of view by ball maker!

===

Strict health regulations that greeted international cricket on its return from a 117-day stoppage included a ban on saliva to shine the ball, even though players can still use sweat to polish it in order to generate swing.

“The ball did swing and it was a balanced game of cricket,” Dilip Jajodia, managing director of British Cricket Balls Ltd, which produces the Dukes balls used in England, told Reuters by telephone.

“When you flick your wrist, there are so many things that apply to swing. Not just anybody can run up and swing a ball. There are swing bowlers and there are fast bowlers.

“You can’t look at Mark Wood or Jofra Archer and say ‘oh, the ball is not swinging’. They are not swing bowlers, they are fast bowlers.

“Likewise, (West Indies’) Shannon Gabriel is not a swing bowler either. For them, Jason Holder swings the ball and he was moving it.”

Holder claimed a career-best 6-42 in the first innings as West Indies went on to prevail by four wickets to go 1-0 up in the three-test series.

England’s swing bowler James Anderson claimed three wickets in the first innings under an overcast sky but did not take any in the second.

“Anderson is notoriously good for swing, but he can also have his off day,” Jajodia said, also blaming the absence of reverse swing on the lack of skill more than anything else.

“Balls don’t reverse on their own. You have to have the skills to reverse it.”

He said bowlers need not worry about swing as long as the ball was right.

“The Dukes ball swing naturally because it’s properly constructed... The test match went through without any observation on the ball or its behaviour, which is always a good news,” he added.

The second test begins at Manchester’s Old Trafford on Thursday.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-c...ed-swing-doubts-says-ball-maker-idUKKCN24G146
 
Anderson seems finished. If he can't do well on home soil under overcast condition, he probably has not much to offer.

Time for retirement.
 
Regardless of lack of swing, Anderson will be a handful for Pakistani batsman. You could make a case for Broad, Archer, Woods and Woakes to cause problems.
 
I dont understand the claim that you cant reverse swing the ball without saliva?

I am sure how boys who have had to bowl will all manner of weird and wonderful balls in domestic would be able to make the dukes ball nip around. If they dont expect big scores from new players like crawley and pope etc as we have a habit of creating superstars from other nations.
 
Jason holder was bowling at around 80-82 MPH and was swinging it like anything. Overcast conditions did help him while it was a sunny day when Anderson was bowling. Besides that every swing bowler can have a day where he doesnt swing much so we will have to see next match or so to form any concrete opinion.
 
Anderson seems finished. If he can't do well on home soil under overcast condition, he probably has not much to offer.

Time for retirement.

1) He bowled in completely sunny conditions and not over cast

2) He took 3/62 in first innings

3) what are you talking about?
 
It really tells about the standards Anderson has set when a 3/60 is a terrible performance and there are calls for retirement based on it
 
It really tells about the standards Anderson has set when a 3/60 is a terrible performance and there are calls for retirement based on it
England have dropped Anderson after one Test, even though the Second Test is on his home ground!
 
England have dropped Anderson after one Test, even though the Second Test is on his home ground!

Apparently he is sore from his outing the other day and is being "rested"
 
I'm sure he'll make our guys look like amateurs when it's Pakistan's turn to face England.
 
You’re kidding? Abbas can seam the ball far better than anyone else in the team. Haris has barely ever taken any first class wickets, how do you expect him to set a batsman up with pure pace and bounce? The guy is excellent for limited overs as he knows how to contain runs at the death with yorkers wide yorkers and bouncers, and beating batsmen with pace for a mishit. This is not a skill needed in Test Cricket where batsmen will just play him out until his pace drops down to 135-140 range after the first spell

Agreed got to set the batesman up in tests matches unless you bowl 95 mph every spell then it's different
 
I'm sure he'll make our guys look like amateurs when it's Pakistan's turn to face England.

I am a Lancastrian - I was born at Park Hospital, birthplace of the NHS - so I will normally back Jimmy up to the hilt - he is after all "The Burnley Lara!"

But consider these things:

1. The next 3 Tests are at Old Trafford - his home ground.

2. The absence of saliva seemed to mean that the Dukes ball only swung for the first hour of each innings, or when there was serious cloud overhead.

3. Manchester is obviously going to have more cloud more often than Southampton.


If England lose the Second Test, they lose their first home series to the West Indies since 1988. And they lose another 40 World Test Championship points.

If Anderson was looking like a vital weapon he wouldn't have been dropped.
 
Last edited:
England have dropped Anderson after one Test, even though the Second Test is on his home ground!

He wasn't dropped. You dont need to lie to prove a point. The players are making come backs after long period without playing and the board is looking at rotating their players. Even wood wasn't dropped but rested
 
Apparently he is sore from his outing the other day and is being "rested"

the plan was always to rotate bowlers which is wht broad was rested too. And wood is also rested and not dropped. They are coming back to action after long periods of not playing
 
I am a Lancastrian - I was born at Park Hospital, birthplace of the NHS - so I will normally back Jimmy up to the hilt - he is after all "The Burnley Lara!"

But consider these things:

1. The next 3 Tests are at Old Trafford - his home ground.

2. The absence of saliva seemed to mean that the Dukes ball only swung for the first hour of each innings, or when there was serious cloud overhead.

3. Manchester is obviously going to have more cloud more often than Southampton.


If England lose the Second Test, they lose their first home series to the West Indies since 1988. And they lose another 40 World Test Championship points.

If Anderson was looking like a vital weapon he wouldn't have been dropped.

when has the ball swung in England without cloud cover or it being new? Even the new ball seldom swings without cloud in england

You know this but are so stubborn you will deny reality just to prove whatever non existent point you have

In which world is a bowler dropped after 3 for 62?

And you are surprised why England would want to wrap their best bowler in cotton wool and take every precaution that his career goes as long as possible?

You are a great poster but once you get a bee in your bonnet about something, you are too stubborn to admit you were wrong and that results in some of your posts being absolute nonsense
 
This based on one innings? He's the best bowler in the world in English conditions. One bad day won't change that.

If he can avoid the injuries he easily has another 2 years left in him. But I suspect the injuries will catch up to him in a year.
 
This based on one innings? He's the best bowler in the world in English conditions. One bad day won't change that.

If he can avoid the injuries he easily has another 2 years left in him. But I suspect the injuries will catch up to him in a year.

Agreed hes lethal in english conditions
 
Junaids will cook up any number of weird interpretations of event to support his misguided narrative
 
It really tells about the standards Anderson has set when a 3/60 is a terrible performance and there are calls for retirement based on it

England have dropped Anderson after one Test, even though the Second Test is on his home ground!

He was not dropped. He is rested.

That would be happening anyway even in a normal scenario considering his age but right now England have 6 tests in a short time period and are on the field after a 6 month gap so have a policy of rotation which is the smart and logical move for fast bowlers.
 
You just know that this thread will be bumped when Anderson takes a 5-fer against Pakistan with his trademark swing bowling.
 
Back
Top