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Kashmir Files (trailer) - propaganda or a reality film?

Maybe because Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism etc came out of Hinduism and from India. No different from all the different schools of Islamic thought like Ahmediyas, Shias etc. what Pakistan thinks of them is a debate for another day and that is not my area of expertise.

Islam and Christianity are seen as foreign religions.do I need to explain why?

Yes Parsis of India are foreign origin too but they have always embraced the fact that they were refugees from another country who were victims of exodus/genocide and it was india that came to their rescue. On top of that they are some of the most creative, smart and industrious people in the world. That might be a positive stereotype but that is because they have a lot of such influencers.

So for you because Muslim Kings had a "foreign religion" they are foreigners. Then perhaps change your mindset and stop looking at Islam as a "foreign religion". Its been in the subcontinent for 1,400 years, and Muslims have made massive contributions to the subcontinent culture.

Not viewing them as "foreigners" does not mean you cannot dislike them. Or criticize them for x,y,z. However their is no reason to view Kings born and bred in the subcontinent as foreigners. At most the first and maybe the second generation ones can be seen as foreigners.

Also most of the masses in Muslims are converted those who had Hindu/Buddhist etc ancestry. I don’t deny that there might be a some foreign based ethnicities in subcontinent who are Muslims too but they would be in the minority. There are people of British ancestry too.

100% of Delhi Sultans and 18 of the 21 Mughal Emperors had Hindu/Buddhist ancestors. The Muslims who came from outside of the subcontinent did not bring women with them. They intermarried with the locals. Their is no pureblooded foreign Muslim group in the subcontinent. And of course many locals also converted to Islam. This is why you can see such variety in surnames.

Kind of like in Brazil the population is mix of European, Indigenous, African. In England the population is a mix of Celtic, Ango-Saxon, Dane, and Norman. Same thing in subcontinent, however the percentage of local blood would definitely be the highest. And having "foreign" blood is not restricted to Muslims. Hindus, Sikhs, etc would also have some.

That is why it is bizarre when Indian or subcontinent Muslims want to adopt culture and dress code from another land. Culture is not the same as religion.

I agree culture and religion are two things, however I don't see Muslims adopting a foreign culture. The only foreign things would be western, like clothes, education, food, etc. However Hindus have also adopted this.

The rest of their culture is from the subcontinent, in particular the Muslim empires of the subcontinent. You only find it bizarre because you see any divergence from Muslim and Hindu culture as Muslims hating their own culture. Mughals and Sultans were the elite in North India, Pakistan for 600 years. Their is a massive influence they had on the culture of this region, among Muslims and Hindus. Some things like clothing, cuisine, Hindus are ok with and consider their own, even though they came from outside the subcontinent.

Probably the biggest difference in Muslims and Hindus outside of religion is the names they give their children. Hindus use Sanskrit names as thats the language of their culture and religion. While Muslims use Arabic and Persian names. So basically the importance they give Sanskrit and Persian is different. Other than that I dont see that much difference in culture.


I don’t think a single Hindu will have a problem with
Celebrating Ramadan, praying 5 times a day, halaal meat etc etc or even wearing what you want unless prescribed otherwise by the institutions.

Among Hindus too we have so many gods because we have included all the belief systems from all indic cultures.

In fact there are churches in south that a lot of Hindus go as pilgrimage. There is Ajmer Sharif that I personally have visited and then there is a famous saint Sai baba of Shirdi who was a Muslim. Ironically Hindus have faith in him but majority of Muslims think he is unislamic even though he has preached peace and only good things. Now that is the kind of thought process people have a problem with not really with Muslims.

Hindus are indeed very flexible when it comes to religion. This is a good thing, and something others can learn from. However when it comes to culture, especially culture perceived to be foreign they are very rigid.
 
That's fair, if you don't consider the entire Afghanistan to be part of India. Even then the subsequent emperors of Delhi Sultanate should be considered as locals. Anyway check the map of Akhand Bharat it includes the whole thing.

I’m not a VHP supporter so it doesn’t matter to
me what they think.

I have always maintained Mughals from Akbar onwards were Indians because they accepted it as well as Indian subcontinent being their home.

Urdu is an Indian language to me.
 
There has been no genocide in Pak Kashmir by our army. Not saying things are great in Pak Kashmir but you won't find any rape victims or unmarked graves. The point is not that Pak should make movies in IoK like we do but the bias shown in Bollywood. Now go and make a film on how China has taken Ladakh from you. Pak does make movies like "Azaadi" on the Kashmir issue. Ask the Kashmiris want they think. We have also made great drama's on the subject unlike your saas-bahu type boring rubbish.

You mentioned showing the other side that apparently justified the genocide of Kashmiri Hindus and moderate Muslims in the 90s. Do those great dramas show the pain and suffering of the Hindus?
 
Kashmiri Muslims in the valley do not want to be part of Pakistan. They want a independent Kashmir. Kashmiri Pandits though should indeed support that. They dont believe in the two nation theory, so that means they should feel closer to Kashmiri Muslims then Hindus from the rest of India.

However the reality in the subcontinent is Hindus will feel closer to Hindus and Muslims will feel closer to Muslims. It does not matter if they are from the same ethnicity.

The Hindus of J&K, the Shias and Buddhists of Ladakh disagree.
 
The names of the kings of the Sultanate I have mentioned are at least 3rd to 5th gen. As I said - pls do look up those kings and their barbaric attacks on the local populace. Also, these kings always considered themselves to be Persians and not from the local land. The sacking of Nalanda and other places of learning set South Asia and the world back centuries. Please do look it up if you are interested.

The less said about the reigns of Shah Jahan and Aurangazeb the better. Aurangazeb was perhaps the worst of the Mughals to the local population. Again - the Mughals considered themselves Timurids - not from the local soil. They took great pleasure in highlighting their Timurid past.

Who cares if I am not related to them? The actions of these kings rankle with the population even now. Given that almost all their atrocities were done in the name of religion - it stays in memory. You should read the excerpts of Ibn Batuta to understand how the local population was treated by the Sultanate. For example - most people here are in no way related to Palestinians. Doesn't stop them from crying on behalf of them or calling for death to the evil Zionists because of that.


Maybe the first generation did, however subsequent generations did not as they mixed with the native population. And even if the mixed subsequent generations did not view themselves as local, it doesn't change the fact that's what they were. Locals. Mohammed Ghori and Babur might be foreigners, but Ibrahim Lodhi and Bahdaur Shah Zafar were not.

I think Sultans/Mughals marrying Hindu women and raising children as Muslim is the real issue.

They did not force Hindus or even Muslims to follow their culture. However ultimately people want to follow the culture of the elite. And that culture starts to dominate. So in this case the Sultants and Mughals were from C.Asia, and adopted the Persian culture. However they intermarried with the Hindu elite, so the culture was a mix of C.Asian/Persian/Indian culture. This also called Indo-Persian culture, and its the dominant culture of North India and Pakistan. Among Hindus and Muslims.

Anyway today no one is forcing Hindus to follow this culture anymore. For example Hindu women do not have to wear shalwar kameez, Hindu men do not have to wear Sherwani, etc. If they want to discard this culture they are free to do so.

Another meaning of Hindu Kush, is Mountains of India. I personally think that meaning is correct not the one you are referring to.

However lets say you are right, and it means Killer of Hindus. What that is referring to is slaves from the subcontinent being taken to C.Asia. And alot of them died on the way their. Those slaves would have mixed in with the C.Asian population. Why do you care you are not related to them? Slavery was common all over the world. The descendants of those slaves must live in C.Asia.
 
You mentioned showing the other side that apparently justified the genocide of Kashmiri Hindus and moderate Muslims in the 90s. Do those great dramas show the pain and suffering of the Hindus?

As I proved in a previous video only 89 Hindu's have been killed in IoK. Now where are the murders, rapes and unmarked graves shown in your film's on this subject?
 
You mentioned showing the other side that apparently justified the genocide of Kashmiri Hindus and moderate Muslims in the 90s. Do those great dramas show the pain and suffering of the Hindus?

Yes I have seen some Pak drama's cover the Hindu issue.
 
Yes I have seen some Pak drama's cover the Hindu issue.

Would love to know which ones to see how they cover the other side.

Btw the numbers you mentioned are those that had FIRs registered. The police and politicians of the time were complicit in the activities that happened at the time. A lot of statements and complaints were not registered in the first place. Before you rubbish that - here is an example -

Name: Ashwani Kumar Garyali

Father's Name: Shamboo Nath Garyali

Date of Birth: 23.4.1965

Date of Assassination: 24.6.1990

Residence: Chattabal, Srinagar

Survived by father (70), mother (60), brother (26), sister (22)

He was a bright and budding boy and was doing chartered accountancy. Five masked affiliated with JKLF entered his room where he was studying and blamed him for being an informer. They carried him down to the first floor of his own residence and pumped five bullets into his head and abdomen. He was immediately rushed to SMHS Hospital, Srinagar for surgery. The doctors refused to admit him. He was carried to the Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura where doctors did not bother to attend on him and allowed him to die. He was sent to the Jawahar Lal Nehru Memorial Hospital, Rainawari for post-mortem where his relatives allege that they had to wait for hours on end and were asked to pay money for the routine. His parents strongly believe that had he been operated upon in SMHS Hospital in time he would have survived the trauma. Garyali's father weeping and wailing had rushed to the local police station for a vehicle to carry him to hospital. The SHO, a Muslim, avoided and the poor father went on begging him for a vehicle. He severely taunted the Pandit, who, perhaps, did not realise that he was relishing his distress to the last dregs of it.
 
Would love to know which ones to see how they cover the other side.

Btw the numbers you mentioned are those that had FIRs registered. The police and politicians of the time were complicit in the activities that happened at the time. A lot of statements and complaints were not registered in the first place. Before you rubbish that - here is an example -

Name: Ashwani Kumar Garyali

Father's Name: Shamboo Nath Garyali

Date of Birth: 23.4.1965

Date of Assassination: 24.6.1990

Residence: Chattabal, Srinagar

Survived by father (70), mother (60), brother (26), sister (22)

He was a bright and budding boy and was doing chartered accountancy. Five masked affiliated with JKLF entered his room where he was studying and blamed him for being an informer. They carried him down to the first floor of his own residence and pumped five bullets into his head and abdomen. He was immediately rushed to SMHS Hospital, Srinagar for surgery. The doctors refused to admit him. He was carried to the Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura where doctors did not bother to attend on him and allowed him to die. He was sent to the Jawahar Lal Nehru Memorial Hospital, Rainawari for post-mortem where his relatives allege that they had to wait for hours on end and were asked to pay money for the routine. His parents strongly believe that had he been operated upon in SMHS Hospital in time he would have survived the trauma. Garyali's father weeping and wailing had rushed to the local police station for a vehicle to carry him to hospital. The SHO, a Muslim, avoided and the poor father went on begging him for a vehicle. He severely taunted the Pandit, who, perhaps, did not realise that he was relishing his distress to the last dregs of it.

You've lost me. What numbers are subject are you talking about? Who is this Ashwani guy? The subject here is this Bollywood propaganda film that seems to have missed you? The other side covered by certain Pak drama's is that the entire Kashmiri population has suffered from Indian terror including the Hindu's from IoK. There is no Pak drama that suggests Kashmir ever was a part of India.
 
You've lost me. What numbers are subject are you talking about? Who is this Ashwani guy? The subject here is this Bollywood propaganda film that seems to have missed you? The other side covered by certain Pak drama's is that the entire Kashmiri population has suffered from Indian terror including the Hindu's from IoK. There is no Pak drama that suggests Kashmir ever was a part of India.

Ashwani was a Kashmiri Pandit whose FIR was not filed. He was refused admission at a hospital despite being shot for being Hindu. The local policeman refused to transport him as well.

:D So Pak series don't even recognize Kashmir is Indian and you talk about wanting to show the other side. Hilarious!

Btw here's another example of FIR not being filed ... the person was a policeman!

Name: Omkar Nath Wali

Father's Name: Parmanand Wali

Date of Birth: 4.5.1935

Date of Assassination: 2.1.1991

Residence: Chak-i-Rajwati, Vessu, Anantnag

Survived by wife (50), son (28), daughters (24 and 22)

He was an assistant sub-inspector of police posted at District Police Lines, Anantnag. His family was in Jammu when he was kidnapped and shot dead. No last rites were performed. No FIR was filed. It is alleged that his own colleagues in the Police Lines were responsible for his murder by being hand in glove with the JKLF hounds. His killing needs an enquiry.
 
Movies are either made for Comercial reasons or for agendas, anyone who thinks movies are 100 % true needs to get their minds checked.
 
Ashwani was a Kashmiri Pandit whose FIR was not filed. He was refused admission at a hospital despite being shot for being Hindu. The local policeman refused to transport him as well.

:D So Pak series don't even recognize Kashmir is Indian and you talk about wanting to show the other side. Hilarious!

Btw here's another example of FIR not being filed ... the person was a policeman!

Name: Omkar Nath Wali

Father's Name: Parmanand Wali

Date of Birth: 4.5.1935

Date of Assassination: 2.1.1991

Residence: Chak-i-Rajwati, Vessu, Anantnag

Survived by wife (50), son (28), daughters (24 and 22)

He was an assistant sub-inspector of police posted at District Police Lines, Anantnag. His family was in Jammu when he was kidnapped and shot dead. No last rites were performed. No FIR was filed. It is alleged that his own colleagues in the Police Lines were responsible for his murder by being hand in glove with the JKLF hounds. His killing needs an enquiry.

Just the murder of one Hindu compared with hundreds of thousands of Muslims abused and the unmarked graves you need to try harder. The Indian military could very well have killed the Pundit to please the government and gain favours from them. This is a common thing in India as was the case when Sikhs were killed before the USA President arrived.

The other side here meaning that Hindu's in the valley have also been victims of Indian terrorism not that Kashmir is a part of India otherwise the place would not be the most militarized region in the world. Once more I must emphasize that they Indian military is well known to murder it's own people then blame it on Pak or militants. Pity you refuse to shed a tear for the hundreds of thousands of dead Muslims but remember a few Hindu's murdered by your own army.
 
Just the murder of one Hindu compared with hundreds of thousands of Muslims abused and the unmarked graves you need to try harder. The Indian military could very well have killed the Pundit to please the government and gain favours from them. This is a common thing in India as was the case when Sikhs were killed before the USA President arrived.

The other side here meaning that Hindu's in the valley have also been victims of Indian terrorism not that Kashmir is a part of India otherwise the place would not be the most militarized region in the world. Once more I must emphasize that they Indian military is well known to murder it's own people then blame it on Pak or militants. Pity you refuse to shed a tear for the hundreds of thousands of dead Muslims but remember a few Hindu's murdered by your own army.

I am sure you have proof for those accusations you are making on the Indian army. So basically Indian army killed the Pandits according to you. I think the need for a film like the Kashmir Files is pretty much underlined by this one statement of yours.

Let's revisit the points you made for which I started posting:

1. You said only 89 ppl were killed based on an RTI. I said that these were recorded killings and gave you 2 examples of when the police refused to help and file FIRs .... in fact one was a policeman himself. Who knows how many more exist?

2. Second you mentioned that there is no other side shown in the movie where deaths of Muslims also took place. I replied initially stating this was a movie about the killings of the Hindus by terrorists which is glossed over and whitewashed by Kashmiris, Pakistanis and sadly Indians who don't want people to know what really happened. To which you said no it should be shown...

I replied stating ok but why doesn't Pak show this other side? You said we have dramas that show both sides... but then you don't even show Kashmir as a part of India - which is not even reality! According to you only Indian army kills ppl - which is obviously false. Then you double down saying that even Kashmiri Hindus are killed by Indian army. So if this is your idea of other side.. let's just say there is nothing more to say.
 
I am sure you have proof for those accusations you are making on the Indian army. So basically Indian army killed the Pandits according to you. I think the need for a film like the Kashmir Files is pretty much underlined by this one statement of yours.

Let's revisit the points you made for which I started posting:

1. You said only 89 ppl were killed based on an RTI. I said that these were recorded killings and gave you 2 examples of when the police refused to help and file FIRs .... in fact one was a policeman himself. Who knows how many more exist?

2. Second you mentioned that there is no other side shown in the movie where deaths of Muslims also took place. I replied initially stating this was a movie about the killings of the Hindus by terrorists which is glossed over and whitewashed by Kashmiris, Pakistanis and sadly Indians who don't want people to know what really happened. To which you said no it should be shown...

I replied stating ok but why doesn't Pak show this other side? You said we have dramas that show both sides... but then you don't even show Kashmir as a part of India - which is not even reality! According to you only Indian army kills ppl - which is obviously false. Then you double down saying that even Kashmiri Hindus are killed by Indian army. So if this is your idea of other side.. let's just say there is nothing more to say.

Do you realize that many Indian thinkers and intellectuals are criticizing the film insisting it will only further inflame the situation then you will conveniently blame it of Pak or the terrorists. When the majority Hindu army kills innocents in Muslim majority IoK then it is the Hindu minority who often pay the price. Not saying this is a good thing nonetheless the rage of the majority community turns on them.

Whatever the number of Hindu's killed no way does it even come close to the Muslims who have been murdered and gone missing in the valley. This according to international human rights reports so you are in no position to play victim here. Kashmiris reserve the right to protect themselves okay ace!

The only side is that Indian military is killing innocents n the valley. Pak Kashmir as I stated has development problems but no where is the Pak fauj killing innocent people in the valley. What other angle are you looking for here? What the movie has not shown is your military murdering innocent Muslim's that they should have done. As a consequence hatred towards Muslim's has further increased in India with people shouting anti Muslim slogans in cinema halls.

Pak rightfully not recognizing IoK is not the part of the debate here rather it is occupied and controlled by your military so obviously our dram'a's show that as it is true. Do you expect Pak drama's to show IoK as being part of Pak when it is not controlled by us?. Yes when Indian's are cornered they are known to runaway as is the case on TV debates so your position is understandable. Freedom fighter killing Hindu's in the valley is a reaction to your Hindu army killing Muslim's at the very place. You can not have and eat all the cake!
 
Seems like a dangerous cocktail of some truths and propaganda. Vivek Agnihotri is a hard core BJP loyalist who came up with the “urban naxal” term to vilify educated people who opposed his master’s policies.
 
Seems like a dangerous cocktail of some truths and propaganda. Vivek Agnihotri is a hard core BJP loyalist who came up with the “urban naxal” term to vilify educated people who opposed his master’s policies.

Which part is propaganda? Have you watched the movie?
 
Do you realize that many Indian thinkers and intellectuals are criticizing the film insisting it will only further inflame the situation then you will conveniently blame it of Pak or the terrorists. When the majority Hindu army kills innocents in Muslim majority IoK then it is the Hindu minority who often pay the price. Not saying this is a good thing nonetheless the rage of the majority community turns on them.

Whatever the number of Hindu's killed no way does it even come close to the Muslims who have been murdered and gone missing in the valley. This according to international human rights reports so you are in no position to play victim here. Kashmiris reserve the right to protect themselves okay ace!

The only side is that Indian military is killing innocents n the valley. Pak Kashmir as I stated has development problems but no where is the Pak fauj killing innocent people in the valley. What other angle are you looking for here? What the movie has not shown is your military murdering innocent Muslim's that they should have done. As a consequence hatred towards Muslim's has further increased in India with people shouting anti Muslim slogans in cinema halls.

Pak rightfully not recognizing IoK is not the part of the debate here rather it is occupied and controlled by your military so obviously our dram'a's show that as it is true. Do you expect Pak drama's to show IoK as being part of Pak when it is not controlled by us?. Yes when Indian's are cornered they are known to runaway as is the case on TV debates so your position is understandable. Freedom fighter killing Hindu's in the valley is a reaction to your Hindu army killing Muslim's at the very place. You can not have and eat all the cake!

Stretching it with the many intellectuals :) Who are these ppl? I guess living in an echo chamber would probably reaffirm this view.

Here in India almost everyone has widely praised the movie - across all communities and religions. Kashmiri Hindus have come out in droves and thanked the director and the actors for finally telling their story which is typically dismissed by ppl like you.

Hatred towards Muslims will increase? Eh? Showing what happened and accepting what happened will go a long way towards the healing process. This movie has brought up the fact that the Kashmiri Hindus are still waiting on justice which needs to be fast-tracked and handled asap.
 
Stretching it with the many intellectuals :) Who are these ppl? I guess living in an echo chamber would probably reaffirm this view.

Here in India almost everyone has widely praised the movie - across all communities and religions. Kashmiri Hindus have come out in droves and thanked the director and the actors for finally telling their story which is typically dismissed by ppl like you.

Hatred towards Muslims will increase? Eh? Showing what happened and accepting what happened will go a long way towards the healing process. This movie has brought up the fact that the Kashmiri Hindus are still waiting on justice which needs to be fast-tracked and handled asap.

How does it matter if pakistan dismisess the movie? The movie is primarily made for the Indian audience and to bring the truth to them.

Read them justifying the pandit genocide by claiming how hindus are responsible for this and the terrorists were only retaliating. Same explanation for every terrorist attack, XYZ attacked ABC country so the terrorists killed innocents in a attack. Now if there is a reaction to a terrorist attack, apparently its bigotry and phobia.

The next is how showing the truth is going to increase hatred, so it should not be shown.
 
Seems like a dangerous cocktail of some truths and propaganda. Vivek Agnihotri is a hard core BJP loyalist who came up with the “urban naxal” term to vilify educated people who opposed his master’s policies.


Can you tell me which part is propoganda?

Urban Naxal is a term used to describe OGWs of banned naxal outfits. It was coined after far leftists celebrated the killing of crpf jawans by naxals in chattisgarh. Even congress described these far leftists as the biggest danger to India.
 
I havn't seen the movie yet , so can't say much about it. During my college days (early 90's) , my room partner in hostel was Kashmiri pandit whose family barely escaped death. Through him i came to know many more Kashmiri , they told about the atrocity committed against them. Some of the things they told were quite disturbing.
 
How does it matter if pakistan dismisess the movie? The movie is primarily made for the Indian audience and to bring the truth to them.

Read them justifying the pandit genocide by claiming how hindus are responsible for this and the terrorists were only retaliating. Same explanation for every terrorist attack, XYZ attacked ABC country so the terrorists killed innocents in a attack. Now if there is a reaction to a terrorist attack, apparently its bigotry and phobia.

The next is how showing the truth is going to increase hatred, so it should not be shown.

True.. But i cannot understand the cruelty of some ppl
 
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How does it matter if pakistan dismisess the movie? The movie is primarily made for the Indian audience and to bring the truth to them.

Read them justifying the pandit genocide by claiming how hindus are responsible for this and the terrorists were only retaliating. Same explanation for every terrorist attack, XYZ attacked ABC country so the terrorists killed innocents in a attack. Now if there is a reaction to a terrorist attack, apparently its bigotry and phobia.

The next is how showing the truth is going to increase hatred, so it should not be shown.

Also I would like to who are the many intellectuals he is alluding to.
 
I havn't seen the movie yet , so can't say much about it. During my college days (early 90's) , my room partner in hostel was Kashmiri pandit whose family barely escaped death. Through him i came to know many more Kashmiri , they told about the atrocity committed against them. Some of the things they told were quite disturbing.

We have a small vibrant Kashmiri Pandit community here in Melbourne, I was lucky enough to be present on a few of their functions here. Some of the horror stories they have told me of what these Mullah's and Islamist did to them will send shivers down your spine.... One I cannot get out of my head is how a 10 year old child was raped and afterwards shot in front of her mother, the person who explained this to me would cry their eyes out when saying this, it makes you wish you were not a human, such terrible atrocities done to them because they were not muslim.
 
I haven't seen the movie and neither do I like to see such movies where India or Pakistan, muslims or hindus are shown as heroes or villains.

All I can say is that there are always two sides of a story and mistakes have been made from all sides in this Kashmir mess. We should never be dismissive and not everything may fully be a propaganda.
 
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Can you tell me which part is propoganda?

Urban Naxal is a term used to describe OGWs of banned naxal outfits. It was coined after far leftists celebrated the killing of crpf jawans by naxals in chattisgarh. Even congress described these far leftists as the biggest danger to India.

Many people think that Hindus deserve to be attacked and killed because of their faith and it has been normalized to such an extent that it's not even seen as serious issue.

So when someone highlight their plight as an issue, obviously people who have been glorifying, celebrating atrocities on Hindus for centuries will see it as propaganda.
 
The director of the movie Vivek Agnihotri is being given Z+ security by central govt as there is a threat to his life.
 
I haven't seen the movie and neither do I like to see such movies where India or Pakistan, muslims or hindus are shown as heroes or villains.

All I can say is that there are always two sides of a story and mistakes have been made from all sides in this Kashmir mess. We should never be dismissive and not everything may fully be a propaganda.

The other side of the story has been shown plenty of times in bollywood films like Haider, Mission Kashmir Fiza etc. No one dared to create a movie on Kashmiri Pandit's exodus before until BJP govt came into power.
 
This equivalence that even Kashmiri Muslims died due to terrorism is very insensitive.

Firstly yes innocent Muslims have also died in the Valley too due to terrorism like dying in a terrorist attack, bomb blasts etc.

As tragic and repulsive as that is it is not the same as Hindu Kashmiris being hunted and killed for being Hindus.

Those are 2 different issues under the umbrella of the larger issue which is religious influenced terrorism. This film was dealing about the 2nd point.
 
We have a small vibrant Kashmiri Pandit community here in Melbourne, I was lucky enough to be present on a few of their functions here. Some of the horror stories they have told me of what these Mullah's and Islamist did to them will send shivers down your spine.... One I cannot get out of my head is how a 10 year old child was raped and afterwards shot in front of her mother, the person who explained this to me would cry their eyes out when saying this, it makes you wish you were not a human, such terrible atrocities done to them because they were not muslim.

Kashmiri Pandit's are mostly quite well educated , so despite the odds they got on their feet faster than others. That's a huge credit to their resilience. I have heard similar horror stories like the one you describe.
On a personal front i hope in decade or two the violence in Kashmir would greatly reduce so i can visit Kashmir again.
 
Not an oxymoron. It was deliberate to force the point.

Pakistanis I can understand, it is what it is but I am surprised even in India the few people getting offended by this or complaining are the ones who haven’t seen it but the ones who are seeing it which is obviously a lot of people based on the collections have given nothing but great reviews.
 
This equivalence that even Kashmiri Muslims died due to terrorism is very insensitive.

Firstly yes innocent Muslims have also died in the Valley too due to terrorism like dying in a terrorist attack, bomb blasts etc.

As tragic and repulsive as that is it is not the same as Hindu Kashmiris being hunted and killed for being Hindus.

Those are 2 different issues under the umbrella of the larger issue which is religious influenced terrorism. This film was dealing about the 2nd point.

Kashmir Muslims being killed by Indian army was not a random event. They were also targeted. Also are you calling Indian army actions ‘terrorism’? That’s pretty big admission and impressed by honesty
 
An Adage: Mei kyah hatya ker me (Did I commit murder?)
ByKhawar Khan Achakzai Posted on May 15, 2021
Long before banning of beef in India, and the blasphemy law in Pakistan, a deadly combination of both was implemented and practised in Kashmir.

Different rulers, at different times, banned eating beef and slaughter of cow. The slaughter of a cow was called ‘hatya‘ (murder), and the accusation of the practice (hatya haanz) often ended in the most brutal of punishments. One such punishment was mesle waalun (skinning alive) and then being hung on the road-side.

There are written records of Pandits exploiting the law against Muslim neighbours, by accusing them of hatya, and mere suspicion of a Non-Muslim was considered proof enough.

A view of the sea
Whether it be hatya haanz, or mesle waalun, both words have found a way into the local language, signifying the prevalence of the practice.

According to some historians Sultan ZainulAbidin (1420–1470 AD) banned cow slaughter out of respect for Kashmiri Pandit sentiments. According to Jonaraja, a Kashmir Pandit historian of the era, “Budshah, the great monarch” stopped the killing of cows, restricted the eating of beef and catching of fish in the sacred springs of the Hindus.

He is said to be the one of the first rulers to have penalised cow slaughter, largely as an attempt to appease the top brass Brahmins who had migrated out of Kashmir under the rule of his father Sultan Sikander Shah Miri.

Afghans however, were repressive against all the Kashmiris, irrespective of their caste, class or religion. Mahanand Pandit Dhar was the advisor to Governor Nooruddin Khan and later became the prime minister for Sukh Jeevan, an Afghan ruler. At the incitement of Dhar, the then governor banned Azaan and issued a ban on cow slaughter as well.

The 27 years of Sikh rule in Kashmir were marked by mayhem and catastrophe. On petition of influential top brass cow slaughter was re-banned by the second governor of the regime, Deewan Moti Ram, who ordered the closure of the Jamia Masjid in Srinagar to the public, and forbade saying the Azaan from the mosques in the valley. As noted historian GMD Sufi quotes earlier chronicler Munshi Mohammad-ud-Din Fauq writing on August 21, 1924, cow slaughter was punished with death during the time of Sikhs.

It was during this rule that three prominent businessmen of Kawoosa family were hung and their bodies dragged in the streets on false charges of cow slaughter. Khawaja Mohiuddin Kawoos and his son-in-law Mirza Kallu son of Khawaja Sidiq Kawoos, Sufi says, were well-known merchants of the city.

“Their dead bodies were dragged through the streets of Srinagar for the alleged offence of cow slaughter,” Sufi recorded.

GMD Sufi records a massacre of an entire family of 17 members, burnt alive in dry willow and cow dung, because of their alleged crime of cow slaughter by one Pirzada Samad Baba Qadri of Chatabal Srinagar. This massacre was supervised by Thanedar Bolka Nath.

Similarly 12 people from Hawal and 19 boatmen living on Doodganga stream were burnt alive on similar charges by Sujan Singh who was an official under penultimate command of the Sikh ruler.

There was revival of the law banning the cow-slaughter during Dogra period. The perpetrators of the ‘crime’ were dealt most morbidly. The punishments ranged from cutting off of noses, being hung at Fatah Kadal (for everyone to see and take a lesson) to the chopping of ears, burning the offender’s hair and sometimes even torching of their houses.

Most brutal punishments were inflicted on mere suspicion of intent to injure a cow.

Gulab Singh, officially, had declared life imprisonment for the crime of cow slaughter. Ranbir Singh, while still heir apparent, unhappy with this ‘liberty’ took his own measures to ensure that it effectively translated into a death penalty. One such incident in which a young man was incarcerated on the suspicion of cow slaughter, was ordered to be fed with food mixed with excess salt such that he died of dehydration. On another occasion ‘he slit a woman’s tongue for beating a cow that had torn the clothes she had hung out to dry’.

The unknown author of ‘Letters From India and Kashmir’ visited the valley in summer of 1870. In his Letter XIV titled Kohala To Srinuggur, he records his shock over the omission of beef price not available in Kohala, the gateway to Kashmir. “To kill one of them is a capital crime and opposed as His Highness is to capital punishment, or to the cutting off of a whole neck at once as the taking of life is contrary to Brahminical law yet anyone convicted of cow- murder, would be sentenced to imprisonment and punishment, from which death would be the hoped-for release,” the author wrote.

“Those animals, however, that die from old age, accident, or disease, may be eaten by the Pariah caste both of Hindoos and Mussulmen.”

On his way back to Murree, he detailed in his Letter XVII titled ‘Gulmarg To Murree’, the amazement of Kashmiri boys on seeing beef. “The lads, Muhammedans, had never seen beef before, and were much astonished at the large pieces of it in the bazaar,” he wrote. “But they could not be induced to taste it, fearing that their doing so would come to the knowledge of the Maharajah, and that they would be punished.”

“Till recently, out of deference to the prejudices of the minority, it was a capital offence throughout Cashmere to kill a cow,” Anthony George Shiell recorded in his ‘A year In India’ after visiting Kashmir in 1880. “Even at present the penalty is imprisonment for life, accompanied by corporal punishment, involving not only the actual delinquent, but also the whole of his family and this (is) because Sikh tenderness begins and ends with the sacred cow.”

In his ‘Making of a Frontier’ (published 1900), Algernon Durand wrote: “There were still at this time unfortunate Mahomedans in prison at Srinagar, who had been confined for years, for keeping themselves and families alive during a famine by killing and eating cows.”

Political scientist Gull M Wani writes during Dogra era, “there were cases of men being boiled in oil for killing a cow,” Wani recorded, “in 1920 out of the 117 prisoners in Kashmir jails 97 were held for cow slaughter.”

Historian Mohammad Yusuf Saraf in his ‘Kashmiris Fight for Freedom’ talks about the introduction of a “cow protection scholarship,” in the later part of Dogra rule.

After the failure of Sir Barjor Dalal Commission in 1933, Maharaja Hari Singh set up 20-member Royal Commission of inquiry under Chief Justice Ganga Nath on July 14, 1944, to look into the Muslim grievances. One of the nearly 200 witnesses was Maulvi Mohammad Abdullah Nasr-u-Din, who explained the justification for cow-slaughter and repealing of the penal law. He is reported to have quoted extensively from Vedas and Shastras to support his contention. The Commission faced boycott and lost its significance but its chairman is understood to have made certain recommendations included reducing sentence in cow-slaughter to two years from the previous duration of 10 years.

Until August 5, 2019 intentionally killing or slaughtering a cow or similar animal (including ox and buffalo) remained a cognisable, non-bailable offence punishable with 10 years imprisonment and fine under Section 298A of the Ranbir Penal Code, applicable to J&K.

In many parts of Srinagar eating beef is still not preferred and is even detested by many. The origin of such abhorrence is this historical fear that has metamorphosized over decades into a revulsion.

https://freepresskashmir.news/2021/05/15/an-adage-mei-kyah-hatya-ker-me-did-i-commit-murder/

Not the innocent victims that they would have you believe them to be.
 
The Hindus of J&K, the Shias and Buddhists of Ladakh disagree.

Ladakh is not part of the valley. What exactly do you disagree with?

However the reality in the subcontinent is Hindus will feel closer to Hindus and Muslims will feel closer to Muslims. It does not matter if they are from the same ethnicity.

Are you suggesting that Kashmiri pandits feel closer to a Kashmiri Muslim then a Hindu from Bengal, Sindh, Gujarat?
 
Stretching it with the many intellectuals :) Who are these ppl? I guess living in an echo chamber would probably reaffirm this view.

Here in India almost everyone has widely praised the movie - across all communities and religions. Kashmiri Hindus have come out in droves and thanked the director and the actors for finally telling their story which is typically dismissed by ppl like you.

Hatred towards Muslims will increase? Eh? Showing what happened and accepting what happened will go a long way towards the healing process. This movie has brought up the fact that the Kashmiri Hindus are still waiting on justice which needs to be fast-tracked and handled asap.

Depends what your idea of an intellectual is. These people are thinkers and writers who voice is not heard by RSS fascists. Well of course in India such a movie depicting Muslim's as terrorists and Hindu's as the victims will be celebrated in India, what's new?

What happened was the you have occupied the valley where Muslim's are a majority so they are resisting the Hindu genocidal military. The minority Hindu's in IoK will naturally be happy about this, it's natural. Either there is justice for all or no one.
 
Pakistanis I can understand, it is what it is but I am surprised even in India the few people getting offended by this or complaining are the ones who haven’t seen it but the ones who are seeing it which is obviously a lot of people based on the collections have given nothing but great reviews.

Well Indians have been trained to think that Pseudo Secularism means you are secular, if the majority voices concern it is considered Islamophobia, discrimination etc. This type of thinking has been ingrained into Indians during the Congress rule for 70 years, so naturally a few Indians would be offended by this movie and other circumstances as their brains have been programmed this way of thinking for decades..
 
Depends what your idea of an intellectual is. These people are thinkers and writers who voice is not heard by RSS fascists. Well of course in India such a movie depicting Muslim's as terrorists and Hindu's as the victims will be celebrated in India, what's new?

What happened was the you have occupied the valley where Muslim's are a majority so they are resisting the Hindu genocidal military. The minority Hindu's in IoK will naturally be happy about this, it's natural. Either there is justice for all or no one.

Who are these eminent intellectuals? Let's have a few names. If they are intellectuals - they must have had their voice heard before.
 
Kashmiri Pandit's are mostly quite well educated , so despite the odds they got on their feet faster than others. That's a huge credit to their resilience. I have heard similar horror stories like the one you describe.
On a personal front i hope in decade or two the violence in Kashmir would greatly reduce so i can visit Kashmir again.

To the bolded bit, as you may or may not know, when an individual is explaining the horrors they went through as they were being driven out of Kashmir right in front of your face, it can break you and scar you for life. Its not like watching a youtube video.

The violence in Kashmir has come down quite a bit since article 370 was scrapped along with the placement of internet restrictions. Once/If the Indian government can start the migration of Indians from all over India to Kashmir then the Islamist extremism can be successful eradicated for good. I am confident it can happen and there will be peace in the valley.
 
Lol, this Agnihotri guy gets Y category security from MHA.

Well done sanghis! First that pest, Kangana and now this sanghi rabble rouser gets security at the cost of exchequer.

Making complete mockery of CRPF personnel.
 
The movie is biased telling only one side off the story. It says not one thing of what your military does in the IoK. KP's or whatever they have killed so many innocents hence the unmarked graves. Ask the Kashmiri widows.

Iam curious to know as to who is the original culprit in your opinion that fired the absolute very first shots in this conflict and when was that ?
 
To the bolded bit, as you may or may not know, when an individual is explaining the horrors they went through as they were being driven out of Kashmir right in front of your face, it can break you and scar you for life. Its not like watching a youtube video.

The violence in Kashmir has come down quite a bit since article 370 was scrapped along with the placement of internet restrictions. Once/If the Indian government can start the migration of Indians from all over India to Kashmir then the Islamist extremism can be successful eradicated for good. I am confident it can happen and there will be peace in the valley.

Why would you be advocating the mass migration to Kashmir from people all over India? Don't Indians love their own localites that much in Incredible India?
 
Why would you be advocating the mass migration to Kashmir from people all over India? Don't Indians love their own localites that much in Incredible India?

There is no 'their' own localities cap, Kashmir is part of Incredible India, so Indians should venture into anywhere in India especially somewhere they haven't been able to buy land or settle in (Kashmir) because of discriminatory law aka Article 370..
 
There is no 'their' own localities cap, Kashmir is part of Incredible India, so Indians should venture into anywhere in India especially somewhere they haven't been able to buy land or settle in (Kashmir) because of discriminatory law aka Article 370..

That's because IOK should actually have been part of Pakistan. In the same vein, Bangladesh should never have been. That's why you got Bangladesh but never got Kashmir to this day.
 
That's because IOK should actually have been part of Pakistan. In the same vein, Bangladesh should never have been. That's why you got Bangladesh but never got Kashmir to this day.

Don't worry Cap, Indian Govt will take good care of Kashmir in the coming decade.

I am sure neutral Brits like you don't need to waste your time thinking about it.

:)
 
Don't worry Cap, Indian Govt will take good care of Kashmir in the coming decade.

I am sure neutral Brits like you don't need to waste your time thinking about it.

:)

Mate, the only Kashmir you will take care of is in the movies. Get your best servile "Pakistani" to post another picture of Bangladesh victory in 1971. It will be like Priti Patel doing her job on immigration in the UK. :91:
 
Mate, the only Kashmir you will take care of is in the movies. Get your best servile "Pakistani" to post another picture of Bangladesh victory in 1971. It will be like Priti Patel doing her job on immigration in the UK. :91:

Ohh what the hell ?

Cap ?? looks like you turned into a Village Pakistani again.

I take back the neutral Brit comment :91:
 
Iam curious to know as to who is the original culprit in your opinion that fired the absolute very first shots in this conflict and when was that ?

He has mentioned this above. It is the Indian army. According to him they are the ones who killed the pandits and pinned the blame on the JKLF and other terrorists. Apparently, there are first-class balanced dramas and serials made in Pak that all agree on this. Everyone in Kashmir has been killed by Indian army.
 
Ohh what the hell ?

Cap ?? looks like you turned into a Village Pakistani again.

I take back the neutral Brit comment :91:

Why do you always try to use village Pakistani as a disparaging term? You do realise what majority of India looks like right? :)
 
They are releasing this film after removal of Article 370?

Modi has made it clear he wants to weaken Kashmiri identity. Propaganda through media is a common tactic.

The amendments to 370 and removal of 35A happened in Aug 2019 ... you may have had a point 2 years back about the timing.
 
Why do you always try to use village Pakistani as a disparaging term? You do realise what majority of India looks like right? :)

Cap it amazes me how Pakistanis living in the West can revert to their village Pakistani self with the blink of an eye :angel:
 
Cap it amazes me how Pakistanis living in the West can revert to their village Pakistani self with the blink of an eye :angel:

Why? Pakistani villages are actually a lot cleaner than the slums in India since you insist on going down this route. Have you ever been to a Pakistani village? I've not been to an Indian slum, only seen them on tv.
 
Why? Pakistani villages are actually a lot cleaner than the slums in India since you insist on going down this route. Have you ever been to a Pakistani village? I've not been to an Indian slum, only seen them on tv.

Yeah but it's just that camel jockiness that comes out from a village Pakistani that I find quite comical.. Don't get me wrong, we have the whole Indians and their waddling of heads which is hilarious but the CJness of the Pakistanis just has me on the floor dying of laughter, it always gets me :)...
 
He has mentioned this above. It is the Indian army. According to him they are the ones who killed the pandits and pinned the blame on the JKLF and other terrorists. Apparently, there are first-class balanced dramas and serials made in Pak that all agree on this. Everyone in Kashmir has been killed by Indian army.

That cannot be right because anybody with even a rudimentary understanding of Indian history is aware that the Hindu - Muslim conflict goes back many many centuries. If restricting to just Kashmir alone there have been many mass exodus of Kashmiri Pandits and Hindus inflicted by numerous medieval warlords. These were much more violent and brutal than anything that happened in 1990.
 
New Delhi: The release of the hotly-debated Bollywood movie 'The Kashmir Files' has been put on hold in New Zealand. The country's censor board, which had earlier cleared the movie, decided to review its decision after it was approached by some community groups.
The country's censor board had given 'The Kashmir Files' a certificate that allows individuals above the age of 16 and over to watch it. But the has board decided to review its decision and put on hold the screening of the film.

The film, which focuses on the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley in the 1990s, has been mired in controversy since its release on March 11.

Reports said the chief censor is reviewing the film's classification after members of the Muslim community raised concerns over the content of the film.

Former New Zealand deputy prime minister Winston Peters has hit out at the movie board and said that censoring the film would be an attack on the freedom of New Zealanders.

"To censor this film is tantamount to censoring information or images from the March 15th atrocities in New Zealand, or for that matter removing from public knowledge all images of the attack on 9/11," Mr Peters said in a Facebook post.

"Terrorism in all its forms, no matter what its source, should be exposed and opposed. This attempt at selective censorship would amount to one further attack on the freedom of New Zealanders and people worldwide," he added.

Directed by Vivek Agnihotri, 'The Kashmir Files' stars Anupam Kher, Darshan Kumar, Mithun Chakraborty, and Pallavi Joshi among others.

Riding on overwhelming government support and tax breaks from several states across the country, the controversial movie has become a runaway success. It has also come under bitter criticism as it's unprecedented for the government to put its weight behind a commercial movie. Moreover, the sensitive political nature of the film and charges of inaccuracy/deliberate misrepresentation of facts has led to accusations of the government indulging in propaganda.

Social media is flooded with videos from both inside and outside movie theatres where people can be seen using abusive slang for Muslims, with a few using strongly provocative language and raising angry slogans.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/the...-says-this-2832350#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories
 
So it's out in the open then. The movie had official govt backing which confirms it is state sponsored propaganda against it's own people.
 
Kashmiri Pandit's are mostly quite well educated , so despite the odds they got on their feet faster than others. That's a huge credit to their resilience. I have heard similar horror stories like the one you describe.
On a personal front i hope in decade or two the violence in Kashmir would greatly reduce so i can visit Kashmir again.

Yes this is true..
My college professor is a kashmir pandit.. he lost his father and brother in those horrific riots and his home.
But nothing has stopped him reaching greater heights in his professional career..
 
It is basically saying Kashmiri Muslims are bad and others are good.

It seems to ignore the atrocities of Indian army.

Also, timing of this film screams propaganda.

Kashmiri muslims killed the Kashmiri pandits. Thats got nothing to do with the Indian Army.

The film is made on the genocide and exodus of kashmiri pandits. Thats the theme.
 
So it's out in the open then. The movie had official govt backing which confirms it is state sponsored propaganda against it's own people.

Number of films in India has had tax free status. Its to bring down the cost of tickets so that more people can watch it. Gandhi Lagaan Veer Zaara lage raho munna bhai and many films have been tax free.
 
Number of films in India has had tax free status. Its to bring down the cost of tickets so that more people can watch it. Gandhi Lagaan Veer Zaara lage raho munna bhai and many films have been tax free.

Veer Zara was shown in Pakistan cinemas. How many Pakistani films have been shown in India in past couple of decades?
 
Kashmiri Pandit's are mostly quite well educated , so despite the odds they got on their feet faster than others. That's a huge credit to their resilience. I have heard similar horror stories like the one you describe.
On a personal front i hope in decade or two the violence in Kashmir would greatly reduce so i can visit Kashmir again.

Most importantly I don't recall anyone from the Pandit community to have resorted to revenge violence. This is the single most important theme in the various religious fault lines that exist in India. Very rare for Hindus to take up weapons especially given the horrific atrocities they have endured. Unfortunately this is perceived as a weakness and all it does is attract more violence/subjugation. Un-intended consequences. Strange world we live in.
 
Veer Zara was shown in Pakistan cinemas. How many Pakistani films have been shown in India in past couple of decades?

That’s a poor equivalence.

Are you equating the popularity of a Bollywood films in Pakistan to a Pakistan film in India

I hope you realize Films are a business.
 
Who are these eminent intellectuals? Let's have a few names. If they are intellectuals - they must have had their voice heard before.

Ashok Swain, Pravin Sawhney, Sakshi Joshi, Manishanker Aiyyar and Ajai Shukla to name a few. I consider them to be fair minded people and intellectuals. Even Rahul Gandhi is a fair man.
 
Iam curious to know as to who is the original culprit in your opinion that fired the absolute very first shots in this conflict and when was that ?

India as usual! The biggest trouble maker in the world who is at odds with every neighbour. India even started the nuke war race in the subcontinent, not Pak. India invaded the valley when Nehru said Kashmiris will be free to choose their own destiny.
 
India as usual! The biggest trouble maker in the world who is at odds with every neighbour. India even started the nuke war race in the subcontinent, not Pak. India invaded the valley when Nehru said Kashmiris will be free to choose their own destiny.

Thanks for the response. If I understand your post correctly you are of the opinion that before 1947 the 2 communities lived very peacefully? If so for how many decades and centuries was this peaceful situation held before Nehru decided to fire the first shots for no good reason?
 
India is the enemy of every neighbour including Nepal and Sri Lanka. It supported civil war in Sri Lanka and has territorial disputes with Nepal too. We all know how it has been supporting terrorism in Afghanistan and it's never ending problems with Pak and China.
 
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India started the nuke fight. Now that it has gotten out of hand with Pak having more nukes we often see the Indian media crying about it.
 
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