Kashmir newspapers publish blank front pages today

[MRSN]

Srinagar: Several prominent newspapers in Kashmir on Sunday published blank front pages to protest against the “unexplained denial of government advertisements to Greater Kashmir and Kashmir Reader”. The Kashmir Editors Guild had earlier sought the attention of the Press Council of India and the Editors Guild to exercise their legal, ethical and professional mandate to intervene in the issue and ensure that the media was not strangulated.

The government reportedly stopped advertisements to the two major dailies a day after the February 14 Pulwama attack in which over 40 CRPF jawans lost their lives.

Condemning the ban, the guild had said the media in Kashmir is one of the most professional and has retained its neutrality even at the cost of lives.

“It will continue to do so. The professional capacities of Kashmir media have been acknowledged world over. The Press Council of India has also issued a detailed report in 2018, detailing the issues and challenges that the Kashmir media is facing. It also addressed certain misconceptions about the media in the report. The guild also wants to reiterate that the attempts at strangulating the media is in continuation of what has happened in last more than three decades,” it said.

Former chief ministers Mehbooba Mufti and Omar Abdullah had also criticised the decision.

“For reasons best known to him, the Guvs (governor’s) admin (administration) in J&K has gone beyond its brief & is in no mood to step back. The decision to stop giving ads to local newspapers GK (Greater Kashmir) & Kashmir Reader is a punitive measure to force them into submission. Are they trying to stifle free press?” Mehbooba wrote on Twitter.

“In a classic case of shooting the messenger the state government is reported to have blocked Greater Kashmir newspaper group from any government advertisements. If true I’m not sure what this move is meant to achieve other than to create a pliant, subservient media,” Omar said.

Reporters Without Borders (RSF) in a statement condemned the move. “The government must restore state ads and treat all Kashmiri publications equally,” RSF said.

https://www.thedispatch.in/kashmir-newspapers-publish-blank-front-pages-today/

 

[Adijazz1706]

GOI showing it's frustration everywhere, what fools )

 

[rhony]

Press council of India and Reporters without borders should advertise in Greater Kashmir and Kashmir Reader. These empty solidarity statements are worthless without any financial support.

 

[Pakistanian]

pakistan and middle eastern companies should go in to fill in the vacuum. This is a great opportunity to buy out the kashmiri press.

 

[Madplayer]

pakistan and middle eastern companies should go in to fill in the vacuum. This is a great opportunity to buy out the kashmiri press.

Will India allow it?

The treatment meted out to our press is a testamony of how India wants to quell any alternative opinions to the state's narrative.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Lol!!!

These newspapers serve as separatists mouthpieces and usually have nothing good to say about India. And now that their gravy train has ended the lil princesses are throwing a tantrum

 

[Madplayer]

Lol!!!

These newspapers serve as separatists mouthpieces and usually have nothing good to say about India. And now that their gravy train has ended the lil princesses are throwing a tantrum

Which newspaper have you read that has nothing good to say about India?

 

[GBK_Fan]

Which newspaper have you read that has nothing good to say about India?

Have read greater Kashmir a few times.

 

[Madplayer]

Have read greater Kashmir a few times.

And? It had anti-Indian news? Careful what you claim, i read it everyday.

 

[GBK_Fan]

And? It had anti-Indian news? Careful what you claim, i read it everyday.

And does it not have views sympathetic to the separatists?

 

[Madplayer]

And does it not have views sympathetic to the separatists?

The newspaper itself doesnt have any such views. It just presents news, and it is a credible source of news. Lets see some evidences if you think it is sympathetic towards separatists.

 

[Madplayer]

Here is the link if anyone wants to read Greater Kashmir:

https://m.greaterkashmir.com

 

[troodon]

Who reads newspapers these days anyways.

We have Pak passion which is the best site with in depth analysis from resident experts.

 

[GBK_Fan]

The newspaper itself doesnt have any such views. It just presents news, and it is a credible source of news. Lets see some evidences if you think it is sympathetic towards separatists.

Rocket science bro!! The newspaper has a choice on the editorials and opeds they host. If they have people with a certain slant, that’s what it is.

Also I have never questioned its credibility. And if you think they don’t have a slant that’s just your opinion, just like my opinion lies with the GOI position that we should stop helping them.

 

[PakLFC]

Show something else other then political news for a change. How about some entertainment news or something like that happening in IoK? By the way here is a really interesting documentary about former Rangers, Aberdeen and Scotland midfielder Davie Robertson who is currently coaching the newly founded Real Kashmir FC side in IoK. Very eye opening so do watch it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0002wvy/real-kashmir-fc

 

[Nostalgic]

Here is the link if anyone wants to read Greater Kashmir:

https://m.greaterkashmir.com

I followed the link and it appears they also publish a sister Urdu paper called Kashmir Uzma. In that Urdu paper, there’s a report on Modi’s recent comments about the “Parosi Mulk,” i.e. Pakistan, not being capable of fighting a war. I’m curious if Modi himself used the “Parosi Mulk” term, or are the press in IOK not allowed to or avoid explicitly mentioning Pakistan by name?

Back in the 90s, PTV had a similar policy of referring to the Humsaaya Mulk as, well, the Humsaaya Mulk.

Otherwise it’s been illuminating reading Kashmir Uzma. They appear quite particular about using certain Urdu words and phrases which have been supplanted by transliterated English words in many Pakistani press outlets.

 

[rhony]

https://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/b...tml?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=talk_of_town

Huh looks a decent news paper after all. News like these never come in the mainstream media. Instead it's some fruit vendor assaulted on streets.

 

[Adijazz1706]

https://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/b...tml?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=talk_of_town

Huh looks a decent news paper after all. News like these never come in the mainstream media. Instead it's some fruit vendor assaulted on streets.

It's surprisingly good actually, it has op-eds from both sides of the divide.

 

[Madplayer]

Rocket science bro!! The newspaper has a choice on the editorials and opeds they host. If they have people with a certain slant, that’s what it is.

Also I have never questioned its credibility. And if you think they don’t have a slant that’s just your opinion, just like my opinion lies with the GOI position that we should stop helping them.

The editorials are personal opinion of people. If they are backed by proper analysis and facts, i dont see why the newspaper shouldn't publish them. If they publish slander, thats another story.
Again, you are simply saying that newspapers have to dance to the tune of government. Whatever happened to free press being a pillar of democracy? And i am not sure how often you followed GK but they have published articles and then rebuttals to the same articles many a times thereby proving its neutral position.

 

[Madplayer]

I followed the link and it appears they also publish a sister Urdu paper called Kashmir Uzma. In that Urdu paper, there’s a report on Modi’s recent comments about the “Parosi Mulk,” i.e. Pakistan, not being capable of fighting a war. I’m curious if Modi himself used the “Parosi Mulk” term, or are the press in IOK not allowed to or avoid explicitly mentioning Pakistan by name?

I haven't read urdu newspapers since many years now but some years ago they did use Pakistan's name clearly. Not sure if the policy has changed now.

Back in the 90s, PTV had a similar policy of referring to the Humsaaya Mulk as, well, the Humsaaya Mulk.

Interesting haha sounds like my parents when they fight. They dont use their names that time lol

Otherwise it’s been illuminating reading Kashmir Uzma. They appear quite particular about using certain Urdu words and phrases which have been supplanted by transliterated English words in many Pakistani press outlets.

Kashmir Uzma is a good newspaper and yes, we have tried to hold on to urdu in its pure form. Its the official language of J&K even though most people speak Kashmiri language.

 

[Nostalgic]

I haven't read urdu newspapers since many years now but some years ago they did use Pakistan's name clearly. Not sure if the policy has changed now.

Interesting haha sounds like my parents when they fight. They dont use their names that time lol

Kashmir Uzma is a good newspaper and yes, we have tried to hold on to urdu in its pure form. Its the official language of J&K even though most people speak Kashmiri language.

Thanks for the reply. The internet is a wonderful invention, isn’t it? Back when I was growing up in Pakistan, we hardly ever got to hear and see actual content from IOK, barring whatever grainy footage could be smuggled across the LOC. There were of course a few writers with firsthand experience of life in Kashmir prior to 1947, for instance Qudratullah Shahab and Khalid Hasan, but nothing by way of how contemporary people talked and wrote and thought. While on the one hand it’s gratifying that such content is far more readily available now than it once was, one is consumed by wistfulness: if only history had taken a different course.

Pakpassion is terrific in that regard as well. We finally get to actually talk to Kashmiris from IOK. I remember a time not too long ago where such contact was unknown.

 

[Madplayer]

Thanks for the reply. The internet is a wonderful invention, isn’t it? Back when I was growing up in Pakistan, we hardly ever got to hear and see actual content from IOK, barring whatever grainy footage could be smuggled across the LOC. There were of course a few writers with firsthand experience of life in Kashmir prior to 1947, for instance Qudratullah Shahab and Khalid Hasan, but nothing by way of how contemporary people talked and wrote and thought. While on the one hand it’s gratifying that such content is far more readily available now than it once was, one is consumed by wistfulness: if only history had taken a different course.

Pakpassion is terrific in that regard as well. We finally get to actually talk to Kashmiris from IOK. I remember a time not too long ago where such contact was unknown.

You are right. Internet has definitely increased people to people contact across the border. At one time, Pakistan seemed like a mythical place straight out of story books. We only got to hear from our uncles and grandfathers about the brave people of Pakistan who would fight for whats right and help each other come what may. The Chronicles of Pakistani army and tribals were quite popular. There were some really good journals and magazines in Urdu which used to come out in the 80s and 90s which specifically talked about the happenings in muslim world. People used to particularly look for news related to Pakistan's role in the muslim world. I just recently came across a very old 100 page urdu magazine (probably from the early 90s or 80s). I was shocked at how good our literature was and which areas it covered, the quality of writing and in depth analysis. I dont see any such magazines anymore.

Coming back to how people here saw Pakistan, I mean people could only picture it in their minds and you know when people listen to such stories without an actual experience of living in the place, they believe everything about the place is so perfect. Pakistan was looked at as a symbol of hope and it made people fearless. I remember that once a delegation of Indian ministers came to Kashmir and when one minister asked a hotel employee what time it was, he answered him in Pakistan standard time.

The bond isnt as strong anymore because of numerous reasons. I think it started with Nawaz Sharief's policies in the late 90s when the trust was shaken a bit and people began to think that they are on their own. And after that Pakistan slowly went into a downward spiral in terms of economy and terrorism, its role in war on terror etc. Couple this with Indian propaganda, the picture has changed a bit although not a lot to be frank. With the emergence of Imran khan as the political head of the state, i sense the enthusiasm of the old times coming back.

 

[Nostalgic]

You are right. Internet has definitely increased people to people contact across the border. At one time, Pakistan seemed like a mythical place straight out of story books. We only got to hear from our uncles and grandfathers about the brave people of Pakistan who would fight for whats right and help each other come what may. The Chronicles of Pakistani army and tribals were quite popular. There were some really good journals and magazines in Urdu which used to come out in the 80s and 90s which specifically talked about the happenings in muslim world. People used to particularly look for news related to Pakistan's role in the muslim world. I just recently came across a very old 100 page urdu magazine (probably from the early 90s or 80s). I was shocked at how good our literature was and which areas it covered, the quality of writing and in depth analysis. I dont see any such magazines anymore.

Coming back to how people here saw Pakistan, I mean people could only picture it in their minds and you know when people listen to such stories without an actual experience of living in the place, they believe everything about the place is so perfect. Pakistan was looked at as a symbol of hope and it made people fearless. I remember that once a delegation of Indian ministers came to Kashmir and when one minister asked a hotel employee what time it was, he answered him in Pakistan standard time.

The bond isnt as strong anymore because of numerous reasons. I think it started with Nawaz Sharief's policies in the late 90s when the trust was shaken a bit and people began to think that they are on their own. And after that Pakistan slowly went into a downward spiral in terms of economy and terrorism, its role in war on terror etc. Couple this with Indian propaganda, the picture has changed a bit although not a lot to be frank. With the emergence of Imran khan as the political head of the state, i sense the enthusiasm of the old times coming back.

I recall reading Olaf Caroe’s book about Central Asia during Soviet rule, and the people there had similar ideas of what Pakistan was like, and I imagine they were disappointed when reality wasn’t as rosy as they had pictured.

You’re right about Imran Khan changing perceptions again. I’ve been browsing Facebook for Kashmiri content, both people’s personal pages and news pages etc, and Kashmiris keep bringing up the contrast between Khan and Modi. A frequent refrain is how there’s inevitably going to be a difference between a calm, suave, Oxford-educated leader on the one hand, and someone who rose through the ranks of Hindutva outfits. Optics matter in this day and age, and I wonder if five more years of Khan and Modi at the helm of their respective countries could revert whatever damage previous Pakistani leaderships have done to Pakistan’s perception amongst the Kashmiris.

 

[Madplayer]

I recall reading Olaf Caroe’s book about Central Asia during Soviet rule, and the people there had similar ideas of what Pakistan was like, and I imagine they were disappointed when reality wasn’t as rosy as they had pictured.

You’re right about Imran Khan changing perceptions again. I’ve been browsing Facebook for Kashmiri content, both people’s personal pages and news pages etc, and Kashmiris keep bringing up the contrast between Khan and Modi. A frequent refrain is how there’s inevitably going to be a difference between a calm, suave, Oxford-educated leader on the one hand, and someone who rose through the ranks of Hindutva outfits. Optics matter in this day and age, and I wonder if five more years of Khan and Modi at the helm of their respective countries could revert whatever damage previous Pakistani leaderships have done to Pakistan’s perception amongst the Kashmiris.

Your are right. Optics matter a lot these days. Social media has become a weapon and its effect was seen in the recent skirmish between India and Pakistan. Pakistan, for the first time in a long time, came out on top in the war of perception.

By the way if you haven't, you should read books like "Curfewed night" and "the half-widow" to get a few more glimpses into what the Kashmiri struggle has been like.

 

[Nostalgic]

Your are right. Optics matter a lot these days. Social media has become a weapon and its effect was seen in the recent skirmish between India and Pakistan. Pakistan, for the first time in a long time, came out on top in the war of perception.

By the way if you haven't, you should read books like "Curfewed night" and "the half-widow" to get a few more glimpses into what the Kashmiri struggle has been like.

I've heard of Curfewed Night. Wasn't it by Basharat Peer? Speaking of Peer, his father was a government worker. I was wondering what the perception is in the valley regarding people choosing to work for the government. If I understood correctly, from my admittedly limited reading/browsing on the subject, one has to separate sentiments for independence on the one hand and the need for a living on the other. Is my understanding correct? Does this also extend to those who work for the military, and is there a distinction made between the army on the one hand and the state's own security services?

 

[Madplayer]

I've heard of Curfewed Night. Wasn't it by Basharat Peer? Speaking of Peer, his father was a government worker. I was wondering what the perception is in the valley regarding people choosing to work for the government. If I understood correctly, from my admittedly limited reading/browsing on the subject, one has to separate sentiments for independence on the one hand and the need for a living on the other. Is my understanding correct? Does this also extend to those who work for the military, and is there a distinction made between the army on the one hand and the state's own security services?

Yes it was by Basharat peer.

Okay, you have touched a complicated topic lol. Working in the public sector is seen as a necessity more than anything else. Due to j&k being a conflict zone, the private sector is more or less non-existant. Mostly it is small time local business owners who provide employment or some outsourcing companies. However, all of them pay peanuts. As low as 120$ a month for graduates. The case of higher qualifications isnt much better. Then there is job insecuity in these companies which can wind up any time. So you can imagine how grim the situation is. Infact, i have myself started to look for better opportunities abroad now. Its really hard though from what i have seen so far. Hence, people have made peace with working in the government sector because it is literally the only reliable source of income for the average middle class person with good education.

Working in military is considered a total no no for most of the people. In plain and simple terms it is considered treason. But some people still join the forces, some out of desperation and some because they have family members already working with them. The picture for state police is quite similar. The general consensus is that they too have chosen a side in this conflict and it is not with the people of Kashmir. But due to the fact that almost all policemen are from j&k itself, some of them do get a bit of sympathy sometimes because a lot of times people know them personally and you cant hate your own. And some of them are genuinely good and hold the same aspirations as other Kashmiris. Some of them are worse than than the Indian military though. This is what a decades old conflict looks like. Chaos, hypocrisy, guilt and tons of mixed emotions - all just to keep surviving.

 

[Nostalgic]

Yes it was by Basharat peer.

Okay, you have touched a complicated topic lol. Working in the public sector is seen as a necessity more than anything else. Due to j&k being a conflict zone, the private sector is more or less non-existant. Mostly it is small time local business owners who provide employment or some outsourcing companies. However, all of them pay peanuts. As low as 120$ a month for graduates. The case of higher qualifications isnt much better. Then there is job insecuity in these companies which can wind up any time. So you can imagine how grim the situation is. Infact, i have myself started to look for better opportunities abroad now. Its really hard though from what i have seen so far. Hence, people have made peace with working in the government sector because it is literally the only reliable source of income for the average middle class person with good education.

Working in military is considered a total no no for most of the people. In plain and simple terms it is considered treason. But some people still join the forces, some out of desperation and some because they have family members already working with them. The picture for state police is quite similar. The general consensus is that they too have chosen a side in this conflict and it is not with the people of Kashmir. But due to the fact that almost all policemen are from j&k itself, some of them do get a bit of sympathy sometimes because a lot of times people know them personally and you cant hate your own. And some of them are genuinely good and hold the same aspirations as other Kashmiris. Some of them are worse than than the Indian military though. This is what a decades old conflict looks like. Chaos, hypocrisy, guilt and tons of mixed emotions - all just to keep surviving.

Thanks, that was what I gathered from what little research I did. Faced with such a dire situation, it is completely understandable. Needs must, as the Brits say. Going through Kashmir-related news on social media, it appears that students prepare hard for civil services exams. If I remember correctly, one of PP's own Kashmiri alumni was training to be a civil servant.

Another point that comes up frequently and one which I wanted a Kashmiri's opinion on is the Kashmir-Jammu disconnect. I imagine relations between the two provinces/divisions aren't so straightforward that it could be summed up easily in a nutshell, but I'll ask anyway. I remember reading about the Sheikh Abdullah-Chaudhary Ghulam Abbas rift during the 40's, and how it partly had to do with the former being Kashmiri and the latter from Jammu. After Jammu's demographics were altered through the massacre of 1947, reducing the Muslims there to a minority, what is your take on the relationship between Kashmiris and Jammu Muslims? There's a linguistic/ethnic angle to it as well of course, so what is it like for you if you ever go to Jammu, and vice versa? Do Jammu Muslims yearn for independence with the same fervor as the Kashmiris? Most of the districts now in Azad J&K were originally Jammu rather than Kashmir, so does that ever come into the picture vis-a-vis the Jammu Muslims' feelings regarding independence?

 

[Madplayer]

Thanks, that was what I gathered from what little research I did. Faced with such a dire situation, it is completely understandable. Needs must, as the Brits say. Going through Kashmir-related news on social media, it appears that students prepare hard for civil services exams. If I remember correctly, one of PP's own Kashmiri alumni was training to be a civil servant.

Yes you are right, almost every graduate here gives a shot to civil services. Especially the state's own Kashmiri administrative services is quite popular. As long as the work doesn't involve taking up arms against your own people, it is deemed acceptable. And such jobs are necessary to address the needs of public at large as well. Its hard to believe that whenever an uprising of substantial proportion takes place and there are strikes and curfews for months altogether, it is these employees who keep the economy afloat. Such is the way the entire system has shaped itself.

Another point that comes up frequently and one which I wanted a Kashmiri's opinion on is the Kashmir-Jammu disconnect. I imagine relations between the two provinces/divisions aren't so straightforward that it could be summed up easily in a nutshell, but I'll ask anyway. I remember reading about the Sheikh Abdullah-Chaudhary Ghulam Abbas rift during the 40's, and how it partly had to do with the former being Kashmiri and the latter from Jammu. After Jammu's demographics were altered through the massacre of 1947, reducing the Muslims there to a minority, what is your take on the relationship between Kashmiris and Jammu Muslims? There's a linguistic/ethnic angle to it as well of course, so what is it like for you if you ever go to Jammu, and vice versa? Do Jammu Muslims yearn for independence with the same fervor as the Kashmiris? Most of the districts now in Azad J&K were originally Jammu rather than Kashmir, so does that ever come into the picture vis-a-vis the Jammu Muslims' feelings regarding independence?

Jammu, as you mentioned, was turned into a muslim minority through massacre of 1947. However, Jammu is not just Jammu district as many people confuse it with. Jammu is an entire division and has 10 districts (jammu district being one of them), out of which barely 3 are clear cut hindu majority. The chenab valley which encompasses many districts of Jammu division stands with Kashmir in this conflict. However, due to having a comparatively larger hindu population and closer proximity with the hindu majority districts, these districts tend to be less vocal. This is considered important to avoid giving rise to any communal tensions. However, when there is an uprising in Kashmir, the people of Chenab valley do come out in support as was seen in 2016 uprising as well. The muslims living in hindu majority areas dont say much though. I think we had one PPer from Rajouri in Jammu division, and his views were clearly in line with Kashmiris. The Gujjar community in jammy is being persecuted these days by BJP and other hindutva goons. They are being accused of trying to change the demography of hindu areas which is not true because they have been living there since decades now and they are state subjects anyway. If you followed the news related to J&K, you might have heard of 8 year old Asifa who belonged to the Gujjar community in Jammu. She was raped and killed by communal goons just to scare away the Gujjars. We came out on streets for her and it drew a lot of attention from Indians as well.

Talking about my experience in Jammu, i have visited Jammu district on numerous occassions and lived in government quarters with a relative who works for the government. I remember once in early 2000s when i was just a kid, we were watching an India Pakistan cricket match and as was the case usually back then, Pakistan thrashed India. Just as we were getting ready for dinner, we heard the sound of window panes smashing. So my uncle, with whom we were staying, switched off all lights. He later told us that it was a common occurance whenever India lost. Some goons used to deliberately target the government quarters knowing well that only Kashmiris live there.

Generally speaking i have fond memories of living in Jammu. People were generally nice and went about their business. However, communal goons associated with various local and national agencies operate freely in Jammu. As biased as it sounds, this is not the case in Kashmir.

 

[Fatima Khan0007]

may Allah realize Indians that kashmir was never a part of them

 

[GBK_Fan]

The editorials are personal opinion of people. If they are backed by proper analysis and facts, i dont see why the newspaper shouldn't publish them. If they publish slander, thats another story.
Again, you are simply saying that newspapers have to dance to the tune of government. Whatever happened to free press being a pillar of democracy? And i am not sure how often you followed GK but they have published articles and then rebuttals to the same articles many a times thereby proving its neutral position.

Not to derail the insightful conversation in this thread but i read GK or for that matter any state newspaper when there is a calamity or incident which is not effectively covered (imo) by the Delhi media.

I last read GK when there was the Amarnath incident around 2010. The tone in the opeds then were far more sympathetic to the separatists than the pilgrims who were killed. I have not read the paper since, as I moved out of the country. If the direction has changed to be more balanced, it’s good to hear.

 

[Madplayer]

Not to derail the insightful conversation in this thread but i read GK or for that matter any state newspaper when there is a calamity or incident which is not effectively covered (imo) by the Delhi media.

I last read GK when there was the Amarnath incident around 2010. The tone in the opeds then were far more sympathetic to the separatists than the pilgrims who were killed. I have not read the paper since, as I moved out of the country. If the direction has changed to be more balanced, it’s good to hear.

I am so sorry for my poor memory but can you kindly remind me which pilgrims were killed in 2010? If you are talking about Amarnath land row which took place in 2008, then i would still like you to remind me of which pilgrims were killed that time because i genuinely dont recall any such thing happening. I tried looking for it on google as well.

 

[GBK_Fan]

I am so sorry for my poor memory but can you kindly remind me which pilgrims were killed in 2010? If you are talking about Amarnath land row which took place in 2008, then i would still like you to remind me of which pilgrims were killed that time because i genuinely dont recall any such thing happening. I tried looking for it on google as well.

I was typing from memory. Should be the land row then.

In hindsight I can now understand why Kashmiris might have a diametrically opposite view on it. To add more this was when I first started exploring the Kashmir conflict, outside of the views that had been shared with me by my Pandit friends.

 

[Madplayer]

I was typing from memory. Should be the land row then.

In hindsight I can now understand why Kashmiris might have a diametrically opposite view on it. To add more this was when I first started exploring the Kashmir conflict, outside of the views that had been shared with me by my Pandit friends.

I am glad that you could understand the Local POV on this.

 

[Nostalgic]

Jammu, as you mentioned, was turned into a muslim minority through massacre of 1947. However, Jammu is not just Jammu district as many people confuse it with. Jammu is an entire division and has 10 districts (jammu district being one of them), out of which barely 3 are clear cut hindu majority. The chenab valley which encompasses many districts of Jammu division stands with Kashmir in this conflict. However, due to having a comparatively larger hindu population and closer proximity with the hindu majority districts, these districts tend to be less vocal. This is considered important to avoid giving rise to any communal tensions. However, when there is an uprising in Kashmir, the people of Chenab valley do come out in support as was seen in 2016 uprising as well. The muslims living in hindu majority areas dont say much though. I think we had one PPer from Rajouri in Jammu division, and his views were clearly in line with Kashmiris. The Gujjar community in jammy is being persecuted these days by BJP and other hindutva goons. They are being accused of trying to change the demography of hindu areas which is not true because they have been living there since decades now and they are state subjects anyway. If you followed the news related to J&K, you might have heard of 8 year old Asifa who belonged to the Gujjar community in Jammu. She was raped and killed by communal goons just to scare away the Gujjars. We came out on streets for her and it drew a lot of attention from Indians as well.

Talking about my experience in Jammu, i have visited Jammu district on numerous occassions and lived in government quarters with a relative who works for the government. I remember once in early 2000s when i was just a kid, we were watching an India Pakistan cricket match and as was the case usually back then, Pakistan thrashed India. Just as we were getting ready for dinner, we heard the sound of window panes smashing. So my uncle, with whom we were staying, switched off all lights. He later told us that it was a common occurance whenever India lost. Some goons used to deliberately target the government quarters knowing well that only Kashmiris live there.

Generally speaking i have fond memories of living in Jammu. People were generally nice and went about their business. However, communal goons associated with various local and national agencies operate freely in Jammu. As biased as it sounds, this is not the case in Kashmir.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ve heard of the Chenab valley, Doda and neighboring districts etc, and how although they are in Jammu division, the population is predominantly ethnic Kashmiri although not overwhelmingly so. That little Gujjar girl’s brutal rape did make the news, but I’m curious whether the Gujjars are by and large pro-independence as well or are they apolitical, perhaps because of the demographics in the districts they live in?

Another thing the Indians bring up here on PP is that Kashmiri Shia do not support independence, and since they are a majority/plurality in Kargil district in Ladakh, that would be a bone of contention if the plebiscite were to happen . What is your take on it? Were they always antagonistic to independence, or did we in Pakistan ruin things by our alliance with the Saudis while being antagonistic towards Iran?

 

[Madplayer]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ve heard of the Chenab valley, Doda and neighboring districts etc, and how although they are in Jammu division, the population is predominantly ethnic Kashmiri although not overwhelmingly so. That little Gujjar girl’s brutal rape did make the news, but I’m curious whether the Gujjars are by and large pro-independence as well or are they apolitical, perhaps because of the demographics in the districts they live in?

The gujjars have a mixed variety of opinions. Some of them are active members of militant outfits who want to be with Pakistan, some of them are pro-India (not sure after their recent persecution), some of them are pro-independence and some are Apolitical like you mentioned. I am quite surprised that you mentioned the term apolitical actually because thats what i personally think most gujjars are. Most of them couldnt care less who they live with as long as they are taken care of. Because of their lifestyle and culture which is so well set, many of them dont have the same political aspirations which other communities have. The common gujjars just want to live their lives.

Another thing the Indians bring up here on PP is that Kashmiri Shia do not support independence, and since they are a majority/plurality in Kargil district in Ladakh, that would be a bone of contention if the plebiscite were to happen . What is your take on it? Were they always antagonistic to independence, or did we in Pakistan ruin things by our alliance with the Saudis while being antagonistic towards Iran?

Indians really dont have a clue about the Shia population of Kashmir and they go by what they see in Indian states. Personally speaking, almost all my best friends in university were Shia muslims and most of them supported the idea of independence. One of them was a die hard fan of tendulkar though. He used to get furious when anyone made fun of the little master lol. Another one of my Shia friends used to download Pakistan's matches in world cups for his personal collection. The Shia population is around 8% of Kashmir's total muslim population. It is hard to ascertain the exact figures concerning how many of them oppose India or support it. I can only go by personal experience and most of the Shias i have met are openly in support of the freedom struggle. There are some who support India though but i have not met many of them.

Speaking of Kargil, the Shia muslim are in a majority there as you mentioned and quite a big chunk of their population doesnt have sympathy towards Kashmiri struggle. Even though last time they did come out in open support for Kashmiri victims of pellet guns and threatened agitation against Indian state if it didnt stop. That was a breath of fresh air. But lets be honest here, the entire population of Ladakh (Leh+Kargil) is around 300 thousand including people from other religions. Thats a really small number and population density there is extremely low. Its a cold desert (a rare place on earth) which is unlivable for most part of it. In case a democratic procedure is used to determine the fate of our state, their opposition wont matter much, as bad as it sounds.

I dont think Pakistan's policies in particular have had much effect on the Shias of Kargil. At the most they might see their future more secure with India, speaking in economic terms. Even Imam Khomeni has time and again reiterated that he supports the freedom struggle of Kashmir. It isnt as bad as some people will have you believe.

 

[Nostalgic]

Indians really dont have a clue about the Shia population of Kashmir and they go by what they see in Indian states. Personally speaking, almost all my best friends in university were Shia muslims and most of them supported the idea of independence. One of them was a die hard fan of tendulkar though. He used to get furious when anyone made fun of the little master lol. Another one of my Shia friends used to download Pakistan's matches in world cups for his personal collection. The Shia population is around 8% of Kashmir's total muslim population. It is hard to ascertain the exact figures concerning how many of them oppose India or support it. I can only go by personal experience and most of the Shias i have met are openly in support of the freedom struggle. There are some who support India though but i have not met many of them.

Speaking of Kargil, the Shia muslim are in a majority there as you mentioned and quite a big chunk of their population doesnt have sympathy towards Kashmiri struggle. Even though last time they did come out in open support for Kashmiri victims of pellet guns and threatened agitation against Indian state if it didnt stop. That was a breath of fresh air. But lets be honest here, the entire population of Ladakh (Leh+Kargil) is around 300 thousand including people from other religions. Thats a really small number and population density there is extremely low. Its a cold desert (a rare place on earth) which is unlivable for most part of it. In case a democratic procedure is used to determine the fate of our state, their opposition wont matter much, as bad as it sounds.

I dont think Pakistan's policies in particular have had much effect on the Shias of Kargil. At the most they might see their future more secure with India, speaking in economic terms. Even Imam Khomeni has time and again reiterated that he supports the freedom struggle of Kashmir. It isnt as bad as some people will have you believe.

Gilgit-Baltistan is majority Shia/Ismaili on our side, so whenever there’s a plebiscite, I wonder if Kargil would be emotionally swayed by the prospect of a union with GB. Even if that were the case, they barely form a majority in their district, so it does sound like Ladakh as a whole would become a bone of contention eventually, even if somehow all parties concerned were to agree on the future of Kashmir and Jammu. I hear at least some Ladakhis have demanded that they be separated from J&K and for their division to be declared a separate state/territory?

Since we are discussing sects and whatnot, I noticed on social media that some people from the valley add their sectarian affiliation to their names. I see quite a few who’ve added Salafi or Sufi prefixes to their names, and some who are even using them as surnames. Is this a recent phenomenon? I read comments from some Kashmiris who are dismayed by the emergence of Salafism in the valley and blame Pakistan at least partly for this, claiming that pre-1990, this particular strain was unknown. Is the intra-Sunni schism a problem in the valley?

 

[Nostalgic]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION], I never heard back from you on my last set of questions. I was learning so much!