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Kashmir violence: Online videos 'show abuse'

Pakpak

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-39622119

More violence has broken out between Kashmiri security forces and youths who oppose Indian rule.
There are fears that graphic social media videos claiming to show abuses on both sides are adding fuel to the conflict.

Mostly Indian soldiers abusing civilians, one video yesterday was doing rounds where soldiers were threatening civilians and saying if we shoot you noone will ask us.
 
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The power of technology and social media...... all this use to go unreported.
 
Videos in the link show:

-civilian being used as human shield
-Indian soldiers heckled
-protesters vs soldiers
-a kid being thrashed by 4 soldiers
-3 people being beaten up and made to chant Pakistan murdabad after being asked ''do you want freedom?''
 
These Indian terrorists will be questioned on the Day of Resurrection.

Keep fighting for your rights, Kashmiris (Pakistanis).
 
Videos in the link show:

-civilian being used as human shield
-Indian soldiers heckled
-protesters vs soldiers
-a kid being thrashed by 4 soldiers
-3 people being beaten up and made to chant Pakistan murdabad after being asked ''do you want freedom?''

What kind of pathetic army is this? Something you would find in a school playground.
 
What kind of pathetic army is this? Something you would find in a school playground.

That is the only language these separatists understand. You explain them to be patriotic and the benefits of staying with India, do you think they will listen? LOL

I say everyone throwing stones at army men deserve a thorough azzz whooping. You simply cannot getaway by hitting an army men in duty. No army in the world will let it go including your own.
 
That is the only language these separatists understand. You explain them to be patriotic and the benefits of staying with India, do you think they will listen? LOL

I say everyone throwing stones at army men deserve a thorough azzz whooping. You simply cannot getaway by hitting an army men in duty. No army in the world will let it go including your own.

So according to you a proffesional army should beat people up and make them chant silly statements? They are not going to listen until India stop raping school girls, torturing and murdering innocent people. Forcing people to sing won't make a difference.
 
Sickening stuff have no words, saw an article on the BBC this morning of a kashmiri man tied up to the vehicle bonnet where he was being used as a shield
 
So according to you a proffesional army should beat people up and make them chant silly statements? They are not going to listen until India stop raping school girls, torturing and murdering innocent people. Forcing people to sing won't make a difference.

It gets tiresome after sometime and Army is made of people.

All the allegations you have made were done by the separatists to the Pandits in their own land. Where was the outrage for that?

Forcing people to sing will teach them a lesson that they will not forget. Don't mess with the men in army uniforms.
 
It gets tiresome after sometime and Army is made of people.

All the allegations you have made were done by the separatists to the Pandits in their own land. Where was the outrage for that?

Forcing people to sing will teach them a lesson that they will not forget. Don't mess with the men in army uniforms.

Let's stick to the topic which is regarding the tactics of the Indian army.

I appreciate your honesty, you agree with this form of torture.

What other forms do you agree with?

Do you also agree with a human shield being tied to a jeep?
 
Let's stick to the topic which is regarding the tactics of the Indian army.

I appreciate your honesty, you agree with this form of torture.

What other forms do you agree with?

Do you also agree with a human shield being tied to a jeep?

No. I do not agree with human shield.

If you read my posts in the thread, I mentioned to put Holy Quran on top of the army vehicles and probably even on the Army men's chest and see if separatists pelt stones on them. Worth a try.

Torture is what histories notorious rulers did. Simply slapping and making them Patriotic Song for hitting an Army man is nothing. Those people are lucky.
 
If Kashmiris are demanding jobs, better infra, education... etc, the whole of India will be with them.

But these stone pelters are demanding breaking away from India, they get no sympathy from any Indian.
 
Pathetic....

Like there is BJP for the kashmiri Pundits, we definitely need a strong and legitimate party for addressing the grievances of our Kashmiri muslims and the muslims of rest of India. We are a confused lot in terms of politics.
 
No. I do not agree with human shield.

If you read my posts in the thread, I mentioned to put Holy Quran on top of the army vehicles and probably even on the Army men's chest and see if separatists pelt stones on them. Worth a try.

Torture is what histories notorious rulers did. Simply slapping and making them Patriotic Song for hitting an Army man is nothing. Those people are lucky.

International law disagrees with you. Causing pain and suffering for the purpose of confessions or forcing someone to say something is torture. I suggest you watch the video.

Do you agree with children being trashed by soldiers?
 
Pathetic....

Like there is BJP for the kashmiri Pundits, we definitely need a strong and legitimate party for addressing the grievances of our Kashmiri muslims and the muslims of rest of India. We are a confused lot in terms of politics.

Kashmiri Muslims want to break away from India.

Everyone has grievances in India. Nobody demands to break away from the country except Kashmiris.

Do you agree with Kashmiri Muslims demand of splitting from India?
 
International law disagrees with you. Causing pain and suffering for the purpose of confessions or forcing someone to say something is torture. I suggest you watch the video.

Do you agree with children being trashed by soldiers?

Those children are not your regular innocent school kids minding their own business with candy in their mouth. They are part of gangs that throw stones at the army. What sort of people let school kids throw stones at the army? Shameless creatures and we all know who is behind this.

Stop demanding separation from India and the army will go away.
 
Those children are not your regular innocent school kids minding their own business with candy in their mouth. They are part of gangs that throw stones at the army. What sort of people let school kids throw stones at the army? Shameless creatures and we all know who is behind this.

Stop demanding separation from India and the army will go away.

So you agree children should be thrashed by soldiers? Agree to another form of torture.

How many stones have killed a soldier? I know Indians arent renowned for their physical strength but will all the protective gear, how many soldiers have been killed by children throwing stones?
 
So you agree children should be thrashed by soldiers? Agree to another form of torture.

How many stones have killed a soldier? I know Indians arent renowned for their physical strength but will all the protective gear, how many soldiers have been killed by children throwing stones?

So what do you want Army to do? Distribute lollipops to teens who are throwing stones at them and even trying to kill them?
You do not throw stones at army and get away with it.

It shows more on the part of separatists who are letting young teens do their dirty job. In the process if one of them gets killed, its double bonus for them. It will help them recruit more fools by showing them videos of how their fellow teens get shot by the army.

Its a major game being played by Separatists and their moral/financial supporters sitting in foreign countries.

I have mentioned this before. Throwing stones at army is not going to do anything for separatists except for injuries to army men and death of stone pelters.

You have to break the economy which is the backbone of the country. only that can result in breaking of India (soviet style) and in the process freedom of Kashmir.
 
Kashmiri Muslims want to break away from India.

Everyone has grievances in India. Nobody demands to break away from the country except Kashmiris.

Do you agree with Kashmiri Muslims demand of splitting from India?

I have a problem with most Indians turning a blind eye on their sufferings. And their reason is that they have tortured the Kashmiri Pundits and they deserve this kind of treatment. On what basis you guys are calling them terrorist??? just because they belong to a particular region and fight against the army for their family, friends and their land?? Some people can't even bear an azaan but can tolerate the army killing and raiding other peoples families and houses.

It's the central governments problem to continue that AFSPA in kashmir and there is nobody for the Kashmiris in the centre to overturn it as it does not matter to anyone in the country except them.

And if their treatment is continuing like this i don't mind getting seperated from them. They too deserve some peace in their life.
 
I have a problem with most Indians turning a blind eye on their sufferings. And their reason is that they have tortured the Kashmiri Pundits and they deserve this kind of treatment. On what basis you guys are calling them terrorist??? just because they belong to a particular region and fight against the army for their family, friends and their land?? Some people can't even bear an azaan but can tolerate the army killing and raiding other peoples families and houses.

It's the central governments problem to continue that AFSPA in kashmir and there is nobody for the Kashmiris in the centre to overturn it as it does not matter to anyone in the country except them.

And if their treatment is continuing like this i don't mind getting seperated from them. They too deserve some peace in their life.

i must say i never expected such a sensible post from an Indian poster. May sense prevails
 
Those children are not your regular innocent school kids minding their own business with candy in their mouth. They are part of gangs that throw stones at the army. What sort of people let school kids throw stones at the army? Shameless creatures and we all know who is behind this.

Stop demanding separation from India and the army will go away.

On the night of 23/24 February 1991, Army personnel of 4 Rajputana Rifles entered Kunan Poshpora village in Kashmir with the mission to cordon off and to find grenades. Instead, they caught all the men of the village, interrogated them and severely tortured them physically and emotionally to the extent of barbarism while the women of the village were raped irrespective of their age, at gun point. One of them had even delivered a child a few days ago. All were raped in front of their small children who looked on crying in horror while their mother was raped by beasts. On March 19th, a UK based newspaper ‘The Independent’ carried a report titled, ‘Indian villages tell of mass rape by soldiers’, based on narratives the reporters had heard in Kunan Poshpora. Among them was the story of a woman who was assaulted by six soldiers. “One by one, they raped me, while my five year old son was forced to watch, weeping beside the bed,” she told the paper. Almost all the women of the village were raped. The next morning when the men were released, they were shocked to see that their daughters, mothers, sisters and female acquaintances had been raped by the men in uniform. The whole village froze on that morning of 24th February, not because it was cold but due to the nature of the heinous crime which infected villagers with dead silence yet loud mourning. They wandered like madmen, crying on top of their voice still shaken up by the jolt to think of anything about their next step. How are people supposed to react when they are stripped off their dignity, that they have nurtured for years leaving them haunted with their own bleeding flesh?

On 25/26 February, villagers sent letter to DC of Kupawara and police authorities regarding the rape and torture. After receiving the letter dated 25/26 February and protest on the part of villagers of Kunan and Poshpora, DC Kupawara visited the village for enquiries and informed the Divisional Commissioner of Kashmir and other authorities, including the local police via a letter dated 7th march, 1991, regarding the incident. Upon receiving this letter, the Trehgam Police Station registered FIR under section 376, 452 and 342 RPC. It is to be noted here that the incident took place on 23/24 February 1991 but the FIR was registered some days later. The delay obviously happened because of the long course of ‘sending and receiving letters’ and the investigation followed by it. Moreover, the army personnel did leave the village but had surrounded the village for 3-4 days for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, this delay in filing the FIR was taken as an advantage by director of prosecution who said the delay was absurd as the police station was just a few kilometers away from the village. If the incident had happened then they could have registered the FIR the very next day and called all the accusations absurd and far fetched stories done by people who sympathize with militants. Before moving forward, it is necessary to read the investigation report of DC Kupawara, based on which the FIR was registered.

The rapes committed by members of the Indian armed forces are well documented through independent investigations of national and international enquiries by agencies, such as Asia Watch, the Asia wing of the international organisation Human Rights Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, a non-profit organisation. Although several rapes committed by the members of the armed forces are not reported in areas such as Kashmir due to the fear of reprisals and the associated stigma, there are reported cases that prove this a reality even today.

On 30 May 2009, the bodies of 22-year-old Neelofer Jan and her 17-year-old sister-in-law Asiya Jan were found in a stream in the Shopian district in Kashmir, not far from the Central Reserved Police Force (CRPF) camp in the region. Neelofer and Asiya’s family alleged that they had been abducted, raped and murdered by the members of the security forces. Later that day, the police released a press statement stating that no marks were found on the bodies. However, two hours later, the police withdrew this statement. The incident sparked violent protests across the Kashmir valley, which were to last 47 days.

In one of its August 2009 issues, the bi-monthly magazine Frontline carried a story titled, ‘A Flawed Inquiry.’ In it, the magazine recounted the investigation. On 1 June, Omar Abdullah, the then chief minister of the state, appointed a one-man commission headed by the retired Justice Muzaffar Jan to look into the matter. Four days later, under pressure from its alliance partners, the Congress, the state government asked the police to register an FIR. Jan’s report, which was released on 10 July, confirmed that the women had been raped, that the location at which the bodies were found suggested that the perpetrator was likely not a civilian, and that not enough evidence was left behind to name a perpetrator. However, the report contained an annexure that seemed to suggest that Neelofer and Asiya’s family were involved in their murder. Two days after the report was published, Justice Jan distanced himself from it, saying that the police had tampered with his report and added the annexure despite his rejection of it. As protests continued in the state, the police and the government vehemently denied these claims. A few months later, the case was handed over to the Central Bureau of Investigation. Little came of the CBI enquiry. No one was ever held responsible for the crime.

In 2013, 70 cases of sexual violence were registered against Indian Armed forces. On 10 July 2004, a Manipuri woman, Thangjam Manorama Devi, was picked up from her home by members of the 17 Assam Rifles regiment that were posted in the state, for allegedly working for a militant organisation. She was raped and shot in the genitals repeatedly, and her bullet-riddled body was found in nearby fields on the next day. This incident sparked protests across Manipur, many of which were widely covered by the media. Such was the fury against the Indian army that a group of women stripped naked and marched to the Army Headquarters, daring the army personnel rape them “as they had raped Manorama.” In 2005, following a legal process the Assam Rifles opposed at every step, the high court was forced to rule that it did not have any administrative control over the forces as they had been deployed under the AFSPA, the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, which prevented anyone but the central government from ruling on acts committed “in the line of duty.” In Chhattisgarh’s Basaguda block of Bijapur district, between 19 and 24 October 2015, paramilitary personnel looted homes, molested and raped several women. The district collector of the region filed an FIR based on the charges by the victims and admitted that this was a serious issue but not without saying that the allegations were “hard to believe.” Over the past few years, reports coming out of Chhattisgarh have been full of cases of extrajudicial killings and mass sexual violence by the police and paramilitary forces of the region. These examples from the recent past should have been enough to silence all those who believe that soldiers no longer commit rape.

1991 Kunan Poshpora mass rape and torture case, when close to 80 women were raped by the Fourth Rajputana Rifles of the Indian army during a cordon and search operation. Verghese, who was a member of the Press Council of India team constituted to investigate the matter, called the charges “a massive hoax,” in his report, even though the villagers we met during our reporting maintain that he never visited the village.
 
I have a problem with most Indians turning a blind eye on their sufferings. And their reason is that they have tortured the Kashmiri Pundits and they deserve this kind of treatment. On what basis you guys are calling them terrorist??? just because they belong to a particular region and fight against the army for their family, friends and their land?? Some people can't even bear an azaan but can tolerate the army killing and raiding other peoples families and houses.

It's the central governments problem to continue that AFSPA in kashmir and there is nobody for the Kashmiris in the centre to overturn it as it does not matter to anyone in the country except them.

And if their treatment is continuing like this i don't mind getting seperated from them. They too deserve some peace in their life.

No. Most Indians do not care about Pandits sufferings. Only the RSS goons care about Pandits. If the whole of India cared about their plight, they would still be living in the valley.

On what basis am I calling them terrorists? Duh!! They throw stones at army men, heckle them, try to kill them if given a chance, shout anti India slogans and demand separation from India. All of this started over the death of a known terrorist Burhan Wani who has his base in Pakistan.

Azaan may be good for Muslim's ears. A non-muslim does not need to hear the prayer calls. Its just another disturbance at night. Sorry if it upsets you, but it is a fact.
Why should a Muslim hear the Early Morning Aarti performed in temples with loud speakers attached? Nothing but noise pollution.
A ban should be there on loud speakers blasting religious rituals/calls.

Good to know that you support Kashmir separation.
 
[MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] Do you blame the Kashmir people for wanting separation after what your Army has done and is doing to them. Was all those womans throwing stones at your Army that they got raped in 1991 Kunan Poshpora case.

Do you blame them for the hatred they have against the India and its Army today after the rapes and other crimes they have committed against them which the Army have got away with and they say it's all a hoax. The amount of injustice that has been done against them is too much and to top it of people like you still blame them. They have always been treated like garbage and you expect them to sit their do nothing after what has been done to them.
 
No. Most Indians do not care about Pandits sufferings. Only the RSS goons care about Pandits. If the whole of India cared about their plight, they would still be living in the valley.

On what basis am I calling them terrorists? Duh!! They throw stones at army men, heckle them, try to kill them if given a chance, shout anti India slogans and demand separation from India. All of this started over the death of a known terrorist Burhan Wani who has his base in Pakistan.

Azaan may be good for Muslim's ears. A non-muslim does not need to hear the prayer calls. Its just another disturbance at night. Sorry if it upsets you, but it is a fact.
Why should a Muslim hear the Early Morning Aarti performed in temples with loud speakers attached? Nothing but noise pollution.
A ban should be there on loud speakers blasting religious rituals/calls.

Good to know that you support Kashmir separation.

This is not about Burhan Wani. I mentioned a few rape incidents and their are many more crimes your Army has done to the Kashmiri people but they never got any justice and never will as even the common Indian like you treat them like garbage and ain't bothered what ever the Army has done to them and them not getting justice.
 
No. Most Indians do not care about Pandits sufferings. Only the RSS goons care about Pandits. If the whole of India cared about their plight, they would still be living in the valley.

On what basis am I calling them terrorists? Duh!! They throw stones at army men, heckle them, try to kill them if given a chance, shout anti India slogans and demand separation from India. All of this started over the death of a known terrorist Burhan Wani who has his base in Pakistan.

Azaan may be good for Muslim's ears. A non-muslim does not need to hear the prayer calls. Its just another disturbance at night. Sorry if it upsets you, but it is a fact.
Why should a Muslim hear the Early Morning Aarti performed in temples with loud speakers attached? Nothing but noise pollution.
A ban should be there on loud speakers blasting religious rituals/calls.

Good to know that you support Kashmir separation.

I have a bit of humanity left in me because our government could do nothing for the betterment of the kashmiri people and their trouble is not gonna end in my lifetime. The next generation is also going to hate India and Indians because we killed their father, brother and raped their mother/sister. We don't deserve that piece of land if we are continuing to treat them like this.
 
I have a bit of humanity left in me because our government could do nothing for the betterment of the kashmiri people and their trouble is not gonna end in my lifetime. The next generation is also going to hate India and Indians because we killed their father, brother and raped their mother/sister. We don't deserve that piece of land if we are continuing to treat them like this.

So what is your solution?

Remove the army and watch the Jihadists and Separatists run wild? You might as well kiss good bye to Kashmir.

What separatists and their Masters want is the death of young men, teens and some women in the hands of army and use it as fuel to further spread the fires.

India will wait and watch for how long these people throw stones and chant separation from India.

If the protests are about development/jobs/education, I and most Indians will support them. If the protests are about separation from India, they get no sympathy.
 
Pathetic....

Like there is BJP for the kashmiri Pundits, we definitely need a strong and legitimate party for addressing the grievances of our Kashmiri muslims and the muslims of rest of India. We are a confused lot in terms of politics.
aren't you communist? and i don't think bjp at all cares about the kashmiri pundits.otherwise in these three years they could easily taken steps to rehabilitate them. in fact id on't think bjp and modi even care for the common hindu's .they probably only care for the ambani's and adanis of the world.only a strong communist movement can oppose bjp now
 
So what is your solution?

Remove the army and watch the Jihadists and Separatists run wild? You might as well kiss good bye to Kashmir.

What separatists and their Masters want is the death of young men, teens and some women in the hands of army and use it as fuel to further spread the fires.

India will wait and watch for how long these people throw stones and chant separation from India.

If the protests are about development/jobs/education, I and most Indians will support them. If the protests are about separation from India, they get no sympathy.

Your comments are disgusting.
Yes Indian Army never killed or raped anyone on their own will. The separists and Kashmiri people wanted to use them to add fuel to fire so told the Army come rape our sisters and mothers.

'On the night of 23/24 February 1991, Army personnel of 4 Rajputana Rifles entered Kunan Poshpora village in Kashmir with the mission to cordon off and to find grenades. Instead, they caught all the men of the village, interrogated them and severely tortured them physically and emotionally to the extent of barbarism while the women of the village were raped irrespective of their age, at gun point.'
During a search operation your army raped upto hunderd girls and woman and you will say the Kashmiri people wanted that to add fuel to fire.
You can not blame the Kashmiri people asking for freedom with Indian people like you saying such stuff and the government not getting them justice.
 
If Kashmiris are demanding jobs, better infra, education... etc, the whole of India will be with them.

But these stone pelters are demanding breaking away from India, they get no sympathy from any Indian.

So then why not free them??
 
Don't know how the Indian military can sleep at night by killing and hurting so many innocent people. Most people have a conscience, seems that these men just love oppressing and being spat at and kicked in return. Kashmiris have told them a million times that they want freedom from India not talks. A soldier from Maharashtra is in no position to tell an indigenous Kashmiri what to think or how to feel. Even Farooq Abdullah has changed his views now.
 
I The next generation is also going to hate India and Indians because we killed their father, brother and raped their mother/sister. We don't deserve that piece of land if we are continuing to treat them like this.

It does not matter, our land will never be given to Pakistan. India is too strong politically and militarily, rest of the world never will listen to Pakistan crying for Kashmir as payback to India for breaking them up into Pakistan and Bangladesh. Kashmiri's are just pawns in this game by India and Pakistan, they are too stupid to realize it, they will suffer the consequences for stone pelting and causing trouble listening to Pakistan, it is their fate.............ZERO SYMPATHY, your words and actions wont change anything......
 
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If the protests are about development/jobs/education, I and most Indians will support them. If the protests are about separation from India, they get no sympathy.

110% they will be given full support, if they want to better themselves and achieve something in life, If any Indians dont support that ,well then they go against everything Indian democracy stands for............ However no way we tolerate this stone pelting and starting trouble, if we they do it OH well they will just get demolished....
 
They are free to not throw stones and take advantage of everything India has to offer rather than wasting their lives away listening to Pakistan. :angel:

So why are they not listning to India? Kuch to masla hai na?
 
So why are they not listning to India? Kuch to masla hai na?

A toxic mix of religiosity and unemployment is the answer. Instead of going out to the polls and voting in a proper state government and improving their lives , they hurl stones ..
 
Are there not 180+ millions muslims in India? What to they say about this?

Majority are proud Indians they are Indians first, Muslims second. A reason why your country is nowhere currently is because of religion....
 
Majority are proud Indians they are Indians first, Muslims second. A reason why your country is nowhere currently is because of religion....

:)) LOL. 'India are proud indians first'. This is the nation where anyone that eats beef or is muslim gets lynched or killed? Who are you trying to fool? India is not in the clouds, it is beneath the ground.
 
Majority are proud Indians they are Indians first, Muslims second. A reason why your country is nowhere currently is because of religion....

Yeah right, that's why muslims get butchered just for eating beef and transporting cows.

We know what happened to Muslims in Gujarat where your PM got something to jump on, stained full of blood. Mumbai 1992, Dehli 1984 etc.

First feed the 500 million living less than a dollar a day befor worrying about Pakistan. You should count yourself the lucky one to escape.
 
Yeah right, that's why muslims get butchered just for eating beef and transporting cows.

We know what happened to Muslims in Gujarat where your PM got something to jump on, stained full of blood. Mumbai 1992, Dehli 1984 etc.

First feed the 500 million living less than a dollar a day befor worrying about Pakistan. You should count yourself the lucky one to escape.

180 plus Million muslim population as a minority, are we perfect ? NO, no sane Indian would ever say India is perfect but it is better than your country.. Where are your minorities at ? Thank you...
 
180 plus Million muslim population as a minority, are we perfect ? NO, no sane Indian would ever say India is perfect but it is better than your country.. Where are your minorities at ? Thank you...

No you are less than perfect, we know what your army has done in Kashmir.

We know what your thugs and murderers done in Mumbai. Let's not even go to Gujarat.

Exactly you are not perfect so don't come here lecturing Pakistanis when your country itself has Muslims getting butchered over food.

You are fooling no one here, no one believes your baloney except the same warped mindset Indians like you.
 
No you are less than perfect, we know what your army has done in Kashmir.

We know what your thugs and murderers done in Mumbai. Let's not even go to Gujarat.

Exactly you are not perfect so don't come here lecturing Pakistanis when your country itself has Muslims getting butchered over food.

You are fooling no one here, no one believes your baloney except the same warped mindset Indians like you.

So how is your minorities ? Is there any left ? Oh wait I forgot they are getting exterminated...
 
No you are less than perfect, we know what your army has done in Kashmir.

We know what your thugs and murderers done in Mumbai. Let's not even go to Gujarat.

Exactly you are not perfect so don't come here lecturing Pakistanis when your country itself has Muslims getting butchered over food.

You are fooling no one here, no one believes your baloney except the same warped mindset Indians like you.

Jo bhi hai, still we have a flourishing Muslim minority who have better life standards than the entire Pakistani awaam. Worry about your country and the genocides carried out there. India is not your concern.
 
Majority are proud Indians they are Indians first, Muslims second. A reason why your country is nowhere currently is because of religion....

What do you mean by my country is nowhere? I am quite sure Whole of India feels our presence daily, you have lost your sleeps because of Pakistan, your whole Media is obsessed with Pakistan.

On a serious note Pakistan is moving forward, yeah a bit slowly.

And had Pakistanis followed religion properly they would have been one of the best developed countries today. Islam forbids corruption, stealing, killing ( innocent, minorities etc) and all that is happening in the country so stop using this religious card all the time.
 
What do you mean by my country is nowhere? I am quite sure Whole of India feels our presence daily, you have lost your sleeps because of Pakistan, your whole Media is obsessed with Pakistan.

On a serious note Pakistan is moving forward, yeah a bit slowly.

And had Pakistanis followed religion properly they would have been one of the best developed countries today. Islam forbids corruption, stealing, killing ( innocent, minorities etc) and all that is happening in the country so stop using this religious card all the time.

Your country has recently had its passport demoted to one of the least value passports going around, you have no economy, you country is in total debt slowly being brought up by the Chinese.

Question:

Pardon my ignorance, since independence can you name me one significant achievement Pakistan has achieved ?

Please note: Getting nuclear tech from the Chinese and caught trying distribute it to rogue states like Qadir Khan did is not an achievement.
 
What do you mean by my country is nowhere? I am quite sure Whole of India feels our presence daily, you have lost your sleeps because of Pakistan, your whole Media is obsessed with Pakistan.

On a serious note Pakistan is moving forward, yeah a bit slowly.

And had Pakistanis followed religion properly they would have been one of the best developed countries today. Islam forbids corruption, stealing, killing ( innocent, minorities etc) and all that is happening in the country so stop using this religious card all the time.
If being labeled as a terrorist nation is a moral victory, then kudos to you.

That's such BS that everyone with more than a pea sized brain would reject it, just check the other blasphemy thread for instance, also why did you think the west is so prosperous today, why did you move to Norway, why do (too) many Pakistani citizens want to leave their homeland?

Jinnah would be looking furiously down from the heavens, seeing the state of Pak today, Zia really did a number on the citizens of the country!
 
Million'th thread on the same Kashmir issue? The solution is simple however no one wants the Kashmir issue to be solved hence you will keep getting such news for next god knows how many years..
 
So what is your solution?

Remove the army and watch the Jihadists and Separatists run wild? You might as well kiss good bye to Kashmir.

What separatists and their Masters want is the death of young men, teens and some women in the hands of army and use it as fuel to further spread the fires.

India will wait and watch for how long these people throw stones and chant separation from India.

If the protests are about development/jobs/education, I and most Indians will support them. If the protests are about separation from India, they get no sympathy.


Exactly the whole religion thing has clouded people's judgement on what are the real issues they face Day to day.. I read somewhere Kashmiris get basic food at subsidised rates as a taxpayer my money is going to help Kashmiris get cheaper food and I would expect the government to do more for me as a taxpayer and not spend all the money I pay in taxes but that does not mean I will start being anti Indian..
 
If being labeled as a terrorist nation is a moral victory, then kudos to you.

That's such BS that everyone with more than a pea sized brain would reject it, just check the other blasphemy thread for instance, also why did you think the west is so prosperous today, why did you move to Norway, why do (too) many Pakistani citizens want to leave their homeland?

Jinnah would be looking furiously down from the heavens, seeing the state of Pak today, Zia really did a number on the citizens of the country!

I am at work now so can only give a short reply.

Pakistan have lost most lives due to terrorism. And World knows which country is sending in their terrorist agents to Pak. And I have never said Pakistan is a perfect country, still a long way to go.

And talking about the blasphemy, had those people who killed the young man followed the proper way he would not have lost hos life. Pakistan hava a law against this and it is up to court to decide, not a mob.

The earliest muslims followed religion better than we are doing today and they ruled the world of science. The western countries you talk about can thank them today. And the welfare system you see in Norway and west was actually started ny the first khalifa (ra) of Islam.

You have no idea of what you are taking about and why I live in Norway is none of your business. Stay on topic.
 
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I am at work now so can only give a short reply.

Pakistan have lost most lives due to terrorism. And World knows which country is sending in their terrorist agents to Pak. And I have never said Pakistan is a perfect country, still a long way to go.
Hey you aided the Afghan insurgency & started the Kashmir insurgency, if you aren't to be blamed for that then who is? The saying ~For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.
And talking about the blasphemy, had those people who killed the young man followed the proper way he would not have lost hos life. Pakistan hava a law against this and it is up to court to decide, not a mob.

The earliest muslims followed religion better than we are doing today and they ruled the world of science. The western countries you talk about can thank them today. And the welfare system you see in Norway and west was actually started ny the first khalifa (ra) of Islam.
Religion changes with, religious teaching do not. If you can't extract the fine print from the many complex verses then you deserve everything coming your way. We abandoned Sati because it was inhumane & totally unjustified, there are still some religious practices that need to go, in Islam as well but tjhe religion won't do it for you. You have to make that choice, religion can at best be a guiding light or beacon, the grey matter between one's ears is what makes all the difference & all the decisions in the world.
You have no idea of what you are taking about and why I live in Norway is none of your business. Stay on topic.
How about you try to walk the talk, instead of preaching your version of what's right & wrong? There was a thread here a while back, something along the lines of ~ people living in the subcontinent (Pak to be more specific) do more for their nation than any xyz expat can dream of, you're only interested in making Pak not look bad. For hypocrites like that someone great had an even greater reply ~
“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.”
by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
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Just to expand on that, you cannot wish for a change to the nation's fortune, you have to live it, you have to be the change & make that change visible for everyone else to follow in you footsteps. Even a small community can bring tremendous change in the fortunes & mindset of a nation, but again you cannot simply wish that it happened, you have to work hard collectively to make that change happen, in yourself & for the rotw. It's easy trying to preach to the rest of us what/how to do things, how about try & make it happen with your own hands?
 
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Hey you aided the Afghan insurgency & started the Kashmir insurgency, if you aren't to be blamed for that then who is? The saying ~For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.
Religion changes with, religious teaching do not. If you can't extract the fine print from the many complex verses then you deserve everything coming your way. We abandoned Sati because it was inhumane & totally unjustified, there are still some religious practices that need to go, in Islam as well but tjhe religion won't do it for you. You have to make that choice, religion can at best be a guiding light or beacon, the grey matter between one's ears is what makes all the difference & all the decisions in the world.
How about you try to walk the talk, instead of preaching your version of what's right & wrong? There was a thread here a while back, something along the lines of ~ people living in the subcontinent (Pak to be more specific) do more for their nation than any xyz expat can dream of, you're only interested in making Pak not look bad. For hypocrites like that someone great had an even greater reply ~ by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

If your Sati is inhuman you can not generalize it and say Islam is also that. I am not going to talk about other religions but Islam tells me how to live, it teaches a complete way of living. Of course there will be things in Islam which other people wont accept, that is fine, for them their religion and for me my religion.

Islam tells me not to steal, not to kill innocent people, not to drink alcohol, not to lure other people and not to indulge in corruption and list goes on.

But if I start killlng I can't blame relgion, as it is my own fault, so to come out and say Islam prevents Pakistan to move forward is baseless and just load of rubbish. Why didn't it prevent muslims in early times to do well in Algebra, medicine science etc?

Islam has certain rules you can not break and if you do it you will be punished. All trials should be fair and everyone should be allowed defend their views before the final verdict of the judge. When individuals do something wrong You have to ask them why they did it, not attack the religion right away.

And sitting in Norway I can speak about what I want, What you are talking about is nonesense. In that way we can't even discuss cricket because we are not in the middle playing. Just listen to yourself.

No one is perfect, I myself have alot of things to rectify and that is my goal. Pakistan is the country of my parents and I have every right to defend it, if I see a bad thing I will say it's a bad thing and if I see something good I will praise it. Mostly pakistanis call a spade a spade. I dont need to live there to walk the talk, my family, my business is here, i have lived here for 30 years and can not just give it up just to
Satisfy you. As I said you are not making any sense.

Bye.
 
Guys, mobile internet has been blocked once again. Only 2g internet is working to prevent people from uploading any more videos of the abuse.

I can barely open a page on pp.
 
If your Sati is inhuman you can not generalize it and say Islam is also that. I am not going to talk about other religions but Islam tells me how to live, it teaches a complete way of living. Of course there will be things in Islam which other people wont accept, that is fine, for them their religion and for me my religion.
Sati isn't any more inhuman than apostasy or blasphemy, if you think they're fair then clearly you're living in the past, like ancient or medieval times.
Islam tells me not to steal, not to kill innocent people, not to drink alcohol, not to lure other people and not to indulge in corruption and list goes on.
There's something called common sense, decency & morality. Are you telling me that if you didn't read Islamic verses or teachings then you'd end up as a thief or a killer? By extension, would an illiterate child brought up as an atheist be the same or can he end up a decent person without any religious teachings? Your comment sounds as if these traits were only brought forth by religion, or religious teachings, when in fact they predate any scripture or notion of worship.
But if I start killlng I can't blame relgion, as it is my own fault, so to come out and say Islam prevents Pakistan to move forward is baseless and just load of rubbish. Why didn't it prevent muslims in early times to do well in Algebra, medicine science etc?
You're overplaying this story, at no point in time were any Muslim dynasties leading in science in tech. In no particular order, starting with the Babylonians, Sumerian, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Europeans & now the yanks have lead science & tech. By your logic India lead the world in maths for two millenia because the zero came from us.
Islam has certain rules you can not break and if you do it you will be punished. All trials should be fair and everyone should be allowed defend their views before the final verdict of the judge. When individuals do something wrong You have to ask them why they did it, not attack the religion right away.
Of course every religion has some notional laws that ought not to be broken, having said that in (almost) all the cases none but God have the right to punish these transgressors. Can you say for certain, consult any number of members here, that breaking such laws should mean death by a (fellow) Muslim?
And sitting in Norway I can speak about what I want, What you are talking about is nonesense. In that way we can't even discuss cricket because we are not in the middle playing. Just listen to yourself.
Yeah right because talking about reforming Pak, or India, is the same as playing cricket! What have you done personally to get rid of things such as blasphemy, or the Wahhabi train of thoughts which is directly on a collision course with Sufism? Yes you are a hypocrite if you're just looking for the perfect version of Islam as an escape route, reforming society is more important than trying to fit religious verses into your set of interpretations. Just as there are a ton of accents in this world, so are the number of personal interpretations of various religions, even in Islam there is no consensus, in fact look at Shia vs Sunni or the two vs Ahmedi.
No one is perfect, I myself have alot of things to rectify and that is my goal. Pakistan is the country of my parents and I have every right to defend it, if I see a bad thing I will say it's a bad thing and if I see something good I will praise it. Mostly pakistanis call a spade a spade. I dont need to live there to walk the talk, my family, my business is here, i have lived here for 30 years and can not just give it up just to
Satisfy you. As I said you are not making any sense.

Bye.
Oh sure, but stop throwing stones at people living here. If Europe was as religious as Pak is atm, or any number of countries in the mid east, I'm sure you wouldn't get the religious freedom you have over there. Isn't that another one of these hypocrisies, you want to live in the secular west but anyone not a Muslim is to be treated as an infidel or less than human in Islamic nations!
 
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I hope Kashmir gets separated from India and Pakistan. Can we lose our egos for once and think about the plight of people of the Kashmir?
Indians follow the logic to repeat "terrorist" word so often that it may start to look like an unproven fact.
 
I think we should solve the Kashmir issue on this website!!:shezzy :facepalm: to those who think majority Kashmiris are proud Indian's first or last!! You wouldn't have an army of a million there is that was the case.
 
When I was in thrissur last year for medical PG entrance I met two Kashmiri doctors during the Ramadan . They were really honest with me about everything.Indian army in Kashmir is really pathetic. These Kashmiris are the most unfortunate people in India. Yes, they hate Indian govt , don't support Indian cricket team. But they said majority of Kashmiris don't want to be part of Pakistan, instead they want Kashmir as a separate Country
 
When I was in thrissur last year for medical PG entrance I met two Kashmiri doctors during the Ramadan . They were really honest with me about everything.Indian army in Kashmir is really pathetic. These Kashmiris are the most unfortunate people in India. Yes, they hate Indian govt , don't support Indian cricket team. But they said majority of Kashmiris don't want to be part of Pakistan, instead they want Kashmir as a separate Country

Most in IoK would not know how people in Pak Kashmir feel. If the combined community wants complete independence then it should be granted. They must also remember that in such a scenario they will be treated as foreigners in India and Pakistan. They can't call India or Pakistan "home" whilst their Kashmir is independent, can't have it both ways. They will need a lot more then tourism for their independent Kashmir to be successful. Another thing is that if India invades united Kashmir after tricking Pakistan in to giving up Azaad Kashmir then our soldiers have no reason to fight for them. There would be no Azaad Kashmir today if it were not for Pak tribal's.
 
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It does not matter, our land will never be given to Pakistan. India is too strong politically and militarily, rest of the world never will listen to Pakistan crying for Kashmir as payback to India for breaking them up into Pakistan and Bangladesh. Kashmiri's are just pawns in this game by India and Pakistan, they are too stupid to realize it, they will suffer the consequences for stone pelting and causing trouble listening to Pakistan, it is their fate.............ZERO SYMPATHY, your words and actions wont change anything......

OK, keep wasting your huge resources to keep Kasmir in India by force and losing any hope of becoming a permanent SC member if you are not able to resolve a genuine issue according to UN resolution, good luck.
 
Most in IoK would not know how people in Pak Kashmir feel. If the combined community wants complete independence then it should be granted. They must also remember that in such a scenario they will be treated as foreigners in India and Pakistan. They can't call India or Pakistan "home" whilst their Kashmir is independent, can't have it both ways. They will need a lot more then tourism for their independent Kashmir to be successful. Another thing is that if India invades united Kashmir after tricking Pakistan in to giving up Azaad Kashmir then our soldiers have no reason to fight for them. There would be no Azaad Kashmir today if it were not for Pak tribal's.

Not entirely true. It was the Azad Army (irregulars) local uprising which freed the region from Dogra rule. This was led by Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim Khan from the Poonch sector. The tribals joined in later but were unable to achieve their objectives of liberating Srinagar and most importantly the airport (Read Sneddens 'The Untold Story of the People of Azad Kashmir'). The kashmiris from the valley were lovey dovey with the Indian state (See Abdullah and offspring), whereas the 'Azad Kashmir' of today is predominantly Punjabi and a bit more savvy and hard a**es.
 
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Look. I'm from Kashmir and I've spent time in GB and AJK.

It is all fine as it is except the valley. The valley is split between a merger with Pakistan and an independent valley. An independent valley would be a de facto province of Pakistan anyway esp in winter.

😄🇵🇰💚
 
I hope Kashmir gets separated from India and Pakistan. Can we lose our egos for once and think about the plight of people of the Kashmir?
Indians follow the logic to repeat "terrorist" word so often that it may start to look like an unproven fact.

Friends in the valley say that there's global propaganda to silence the huge chunk, maybe even majority of Kashmiris in valley who want merger with Pakistan.

There is no appetite for independence in GB and AJK.

The valley will become Pakistan or independent. The rest will stay the same.

Indian propaganda via Hashim Qureshi has caused problems; the idiots that are JKLF. Useless.
 
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