Ab Fan
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Actually he scored 186 in Mumbai inning not 183and he walked at 212-2 in SCG..
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Kevin Pietersen vs AB de Villiers - the better batsman?
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Slog
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I think people are underrating Ashwin and Ojha's performances in that series too. They sure didnt run through England but that was mostly a function of Cook, Pietersen. Rest of the batting lineup the wickets fell at a decent rate. Their stats ended up being poor-ish because of quality batsmanship from Cook, Trott an KP while playing spin. If the succesful English batsmen were duds against spin then Ojha, Ashwin would have run through them regardless of form as they did with the rest of the line up
sensible-indian-fan
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Ashwin (who averaged 50+ in that series) was a pure DUD in that match (improved a bit in Kolkata game though). Couldn't land it in proper spots. Would either drop it short or bowl it full. Gave away too many singles. The fact that he was threatening in parts was because when he landed in the right areas in that tough pitch, he was deadly. But it was too far and few in between so no pressure was created. Plus he didn't have the dip he has now, so troubled righties very less and relied on the turn from the pitch a LOT.
Countless times Cook used to play and miss Ashwin but due to lack of sustained pressure go on to make a big score.
However Ojha was amazing. Pure class.
And Pietersen played him like a champ. Destroyed Ashwin too but he was no match for Pietersen in that state anyways.
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Buffet
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Who is a better batsman?
Answer is AB.
Answer is AB.
Where are you getting your statistics from?
Kevin averaged less than 40 in 11 out of 31 series, but that includes the end of his career when he was on a decline. AB isn’t at that phase yet so the percentage can’t be compared directly (because in all likelihood AB will have some bad form once he is out of his peak and will also fail in a few series before retiring).
AB has averaged less than 40 in 12 out of 36 series (not including the current India series) which is a “failure” rate of 33%.
Acricketfan
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Definitely underrated.
Sunny786
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In terms of ability, AB is ahead. But I love how KP smashes fast bowlers with authority and almost no respect.
Robert
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I agree that Ojha was the threat to England in that series. Ashwin just got milked.
IndianWillow
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You could be right that AB made more soft runs. That is true of Sachin vs Laxman debate too. I think it is universally accepted that Sachin>Laxman. AB vs KP comparison is similar to that in a lot of respects.
AB needs to bat up the order in my opinion. If you are playing in a strong bowling side like SA, and you aren't willing to take the batting lead in a team which had Smith, Kallis and Amla, you are going to be left behind as a batsman when it comes to making tough runs. For SA, the tough runs were often made by Smith, Kallis and Amla. #5,6 positions don't suit a gifted batsman like AB. He makes the same mistake in ODIs too. With Amla at #3, AB needs to bat at #4.
I don't think SRT scored a lot of soft runs. He actually missed out on scoring soft runs between the 2003-2006 phase when we faced mediocre bowling on pattas regularly, as he was terribly out of form due to injury. I have lost count of how many batsmen were going through their 'peak' during this phase.
'Tough runs' are not necessarily 'match winning' runs IMO. Amla's performance in India 2010 were as tough as they come. So was David's masterclass in England 2011. I just never remember ABDV doing anything close to such performances in tests.
People accuse Kallis of scoring soft runs too which is false.
I agree that ABDV should bat up the order in both formats. I think he is facing his ultimate test in India at the moment. Our bowling attack seems to be in killer form. If he somehow ends up dominating them in this series, my respect for ABDV as a test batsman will multiply ten-fold.
Ab Fan
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If tough runs are not necessarily match winning ones then ABD hasn't scored a lot of soft runs either.Although in Asia, the claim is valid because barring that 278 vs Pak which was no doubt a magnificent knock he hasn't done much of note.He had a good series against Murali in SL in 2006 but the impact wasn't there as SL won that series.
[MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] - I would like to see him score more consistently in Asia. More back to the wall kind of innings that Kallis, Dravid, SRT, Lara or even Amla etc have played literally every single year of their careers.
He has some gun knocks like Perth 2008, which was incredible. Even his hundred against a peak Johnson/Harris at home when no one seemed to be playing well against them. Needs to prove himself in spinning Asian tracks as much as Asian batsmen need to score in bouncy/swinging non-SC wickets.
As I've said before, he will most likely do it. But he hasn't so far. Which is the reason I rate KP ahead, at the moment.
He has some gun knocks like Perth 2008, which was incredible. Even his hundred against a peak Johnson/Harris at home when no one seemed to be playing well against them. Needs to prove himself in spinning Asian tracks as much as Asian batsmen need to score in bouncy/swinging non-SC wickets.
As I've said before, he will most likely do it. But he hasn't so far. Which is the reason I rate KP ahead, at the moment.
soso_killer
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Oh please, I maybe one of AB harshest critics (due to the fact that he has the potential to be in the top two or three bats of all time), but there is daylight between the two. KP is more of a 1 innings wonder per series, playing the way he did meant he would lack consistency. His mates had to do the hard yards in between KP's barren spells. Was too inconsistent, and had many glaring weaknesses in his technique.
AB is more consistent, and can play on any surface and can play as per team requirements which is very important in South African culture.
In a team environment one can't be pigeon holed as 'attacking' or 'defending', one has to be capable of both or at least try.
In South Africa we value team work and collective effort than individual brilliance. I've seen so many straight 'A' students struggle in the work environment post graduation. Mainly due to a lack of team work. It's all well and good to lock yourself in a tiny stuffy room somewhere and rack your brains out with a ton of pages and info. But the real world simply doesn't work like that, interaction is just as important. So many have tried solving complex problems alone and see working in groups or having assistance as a hindrance. I don't know whether this arrogance is subconscious or not but it is definitely unacceptable and untenable and losses the company time and money.
Back to KP, he would have won SA many matches no doubt, but he would have lost us plenty as well. I don't see him knuckling down to try and save a match for his team, batting all day for an inglorious 33 of 220 balls. He would never curb his attacking instincts for the team. The guy just wasn't suited for the SA cricket team and its culture. In SA we don't have superstars or value them. The only person I can think of as a 'symbol' or 'super star' was Nelson Mandela, not a single individual in SA is held in such stature in any discipline (sports, entertainment, politics etc). Look at Klusner fall out, such match winner for us, but he faded and was an amicable bloke than KP.
Two things are important to us, authority and a cohesive team, anyone who stands in the way of that no matter how brilliant won't be treated to kindly.
AB is more consistent, and can play on any surface and can play as per team requirements which is very important in South African culture.
In a team environment one can't be pigeon holed as 'attacking' or 'defending', one has to be capable of both or at least try.
In South Africa we value team work and collective effort than individual brilliance. I've seen so many straight 'A' students struggle in the work environment post graduation. Mainly due to a lack of team work. It's all well and good to lock yourself in a tiny stuffy room somewhere and rack your brains out with a ton of pages and info. But the real world simply doesn't work like that, interaction is just as important. So many have tried solving complex problems alone and see working in groups or having assistance as a hindrance. I don't know whether this arrogance is subconscious or not but it is definitely unacceptable and untenable and losses the company time and money.
Back to KP, he would have won SA many matches no doubt, but he would have lost us plenty as well. I don't see him knuckling down to try and save a match for his team, batting all day for an inglorious 33 of 220 balls. He would never curb his attacking instincts for the team. The guy just wasn't suited for the SA cricket team and its culture. In SA we don't have superstars or value them. The only person I can think of as a 'symbol' or 'super star' was Nelson Mandela, not a single individual in SA is held in such stature in any discipline (sports, entertainment, politics etc). Look at Klusner fall out, such match winner for us, but he faded and was an amicable bloke than KP.
Two things are important to us, authority and a cohesive team, anyone who stands in the way of that no matter how brilliant won't be treated to kindly.
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The problem is not where AB bats. It's that Faf has failed pretty much everywhere he has batted, except at 3. The problem is that moving Faf out of 3, he is likely to perform poorer.
Jo_Don
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On this topic, the issue with KP was that he didn't have many gears. Whenever he was up against it, he never had the temperament to block out a day. The only way he knew how to get out of trouble was to counterattack - sometimes this worked, but most times it didn't. The few times it worked, it has been remembered as a great knock.
However this is exactly why he was criticised so much during his playing days. He never had the temperament to see a tough period through, and would often get out playing a stupid shot.
My take on this is that it's a selfish way to play. Sure sometimes it comes off, but more often than not it doesn't, and when it doesn't then you're actually letting your team down in the bigger scheme of things.
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However this is exactly why he was criticised so much during his playing days. He never had the temperament to see a tough period through, and would often get out playing a stupid shot.
My take on this is that it's a selfish way to play. Sure sometimes it comes off, but more often than not it doesn't, and when it doesn't then you're actually letting your team down in the bigger scheme of things.
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I'm glad some sanity prevailing.
As I said earlier. . Kohli vs. Yasir Hameed? Not as big difference, but you get the idea.
I keep hearing this argument over and over again. But how many Dravid/Kallis and Viv style innings has AB played? The only Viv type (in terms of strike rate) innings I can think of are his 103 and 135 against West Indies, 129 against India, 103 against Pakistan and his 163 against Australia. In terms of batting out a draw he has a few innings like his 43 and 33 against Australia. But Amla too has some quick innings (112 and 196 against Australia and several others). Many other batsman do too. So the world has seen many batsman with as many batting gears before.
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This thread is specifically a comparison between AB and KP.
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True, and there I would agree that AB can bat in more gears than KP. I was just replying to the last sentence in his post.
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He wouldn't have survived anywhere for too long..
AB as overall batsman much higher, in terms of consistency, quality & diversity. But, if it's a hypothetical situation with both available at their peak, I probably will pick KP - better player under pressure, better chaser & sightly better player of spin. Also, I think KP was a better "difficult wicket" player than AB. But, there ever had been very few who can match AB on good wicket or when team at dominating situation.
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I was talking about his natural talent , not his attitude.
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Agreed KP much like his attitude, his batting was just as selfish. Rarely played according to the situation. He was a fantastic bat for England, but his ego has ruined everything. I would have very much enjoyed watching Wahab bowling to KP.
IndianWillow
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AB is a gifted stroke maker, and playing attackingly is his natural game.
Natural stroke makers like AB rarely have the ability to play 30 off 200 kind of knocks. Even Sachin who was a natural stroke player could never play a fighting innings like that. Viv could never play that sort of innings. Amla cannot match AB in shifting gears (LOL, you even brought up that comparison), one look at their ODI career is enough to prove that.
AB is kinda unique, there has never been a natural stroke maker in the modern era who could play a marathon innings like 30 off 200 when the team needed it. Batsmen like Dravid can do that but these batsmen are not naturally attacking players. And KP could never do it, KP could always try to hit his way out of trouble, but lacked the doggedness needed to play the survival kind of knocks.
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Faf has done well down the order.
SL_Fan
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Faf at no 3/4 - 781 runs @ 43 with 2 tons and 4 50s in 19 innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
Down the order - 715 runs @ 55 with 2 tons and 3 50s in 16 innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
Down the order - 715 runs @ 55 with 2 tons and 3 50s in 16 innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
Totally agree. AB has gear 0 where he can deadbat for 250 balls scoring 30 odd like he did in Adelaide, and then he can score the fastest ODI century ever without missing a beat. Truly remarkable.
KP was a special batsman capable of great innings, but AB is just something else.
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Kevin Pietersen vs AB De Villiers - the better batsman?
Was referring to ODIs, but it extends to tests in the sense that Faf said he prefers batting at 3, so they've given him his preferred position in both formats.
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No 3 in ODIs is fair enough although I think SA would be better off having AB at 3 and Faf down the order especially when chasing. But in Tests tho makes no sense to move both Amla and AB down the order just to fit Faf in at 3 when he has done much better down the order any way. I mean he has scored 473 runs @ 68 with 2 tons in 8 innings at no 6. Last time I checked that's a whole lot better than averaging some 40 odd 
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ed;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ed;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
SL_Fan
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Btw last Test first time Faf's ave has dipped below 50. Out of the Sutcliffe/Miandad club now 
Ab Fan
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Yeah, Faf should come down the order at no.5 especially while chasing in test or at no.4 behind AB in odi.ABD has a flaw of not finishing off a game after playing a great knock.If someone like Faf comes down the order he would make sure that SA finishes off those games with positive results as he did against Aus in Adelaide coming down the order and played perhaps the best inning of the decade.Amla and ABD are better off playing big knocks as they are best batsmen in the team and 3 & 4 are best position for that like Dravid-Sachin did for India or Sanga-Jaya for SL..
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KP has more iconic knocks tbh.
Jo_Don
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Same like Afridi to be honest. When you only have style of playing, you're remembered for when it does come off. But most of the time it doesn't.
Abhilash93
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I have seen lots of biased people but this really takes the cake.
Are you really comparing KP with Afridi? Afridi could never play 300 balls. You can't have an average of 47-48 in Tests if you don't click most of the time.
Jo_Don
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No I'm not. I'm comparing their style of play. Let me know if you need help understanding
ads101
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AB.
People forget KP was worse in his latter half of his career. He just was never playing to the same standard as the first part. If KP had continued like he did in his first half, he'd be an ATG and wouldn't be a contest. But he didn't.
People forget KP was worse in his latter half of his career. He just was never playing to the same standard as the first part. If KP had continued like he did in his first half, he'd be an ATG and wouldn't be a contest. But he didn't.
AZ
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Have had the pleasure of seeing both live and personally found KP a lot more impressive.
when he is in full flow it is like men against boys, dude is just too good.
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when he is in full flow it is like men against boys, dude is just too good.
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Acricketfan
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Are you seriously comparing KP to Afridi ?
Itachi
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Kp can take away a match from the jaws of defeat and change the whole aura around the team.
Abd can't.
Kp is a true leadership material.
Abd can't.
Kp is a true leadership material.
Jo_Don
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No, read my response to the other guy who asked that.
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ABCD(EFGHIJK.....etc) is obviously the more consistent scorer, but very few cricketers of the 2000s have had the ability to turn a match on its head in 1-2 sessions and Kevin was one of them. Particularly from 2005-2008 KP was just awesome and arguably the world's best player.
However then he lost some motivation and rather gazumped, becoming a merely useful fly-swatter who occasionally played an extraordinary knock, and then dined out on it for 6 months whilst contributing close to nothing; in the meantime, guys like ABCD were soundly and solidly averaging 70 on every tour.
So it is probably ABCD for the theorist, conservative purists, and KP for the reckless, hopeless romantics.
There is no right or wrong, but personally I'd choose KP for little more reasoning than emotional attachment and England bias.
However then he lost some motivation and rather gazumped, becoming a merely useful fly-swatter who occasionally played an extraordinary knock, and then dined out on it for 6 months whilst contributing close to nothing; in the meantime, guys like ABCD were soundly and solidly averaging 70 on every tour.
So it is probably ABCD for the theorist, conservative purists, and KP for the reckless, hopeless romantics.
There is no right or wrong, but personally I'd choose KP for little more reasoning than emotional attachment and England bias.
IndianWillow
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Yep. Managed 15 test hundreds during his first four career years and then eight during his last five. His game changing ability was dominant during the first four years, but during the second half it was more or less a lottery and generally thrashed weak bowling units like India - he looked good when it came off, else he looked ugly.
Quality knock today, could've been one of the great hundreds on Indian soil had he got there. This could've been a match-winning effort too had SA been at their full strength bowling side.
I've been one of ABDV's critics as far as his test career is concerned, but if he keeps this form on throughout the tour i will be forced to change my mind. Still doesn't look as assured against spin as i would expect him to, but he's getting vital runs in quick time.
I've been one of ABDV's critics as far as his test career is concerned, but if he keeps this form on throughout the tour i will be forced to change my mind. Still doesn't look as assured against spin as i would expect him to, but he's getting vital runs in quick time.
sensible-indian-fan
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Quality knock today.
street cricketer
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ABD looked out of all sorts against Ashwin today.
Ditto at Mohali too after finally making a good score.
Ashwin had him again in the 2 T20s played earlier.
Considering Pietersen's extraordinary innings on a rank turner at Mumbai, fair to say KP is a better player against quality spin on turning pitches?
Ditto at Mohali too after finally making a good score.
Ashwin had him again in the 2 T20s played earlier.
Considering Pietersen's extraordinary innings on a rank turner at Mumbai, fair to say KP is a better player against quality spin on turning pitches?
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In tests KP is ahead, as an overall batsmen I'll go with ABD.
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