Kyle Abbott, Rilee Rossouw [#139], David Wiese [#226] quit international cricket, sign Kolpak deals

[Donal Cozzie]

Has agreed a 3-4 year Kolpak deal with Hampsire apparently and will retire later this month. For those who don't know Kolpak players cannot play internationally for their home nation during their contract, so this will essentially end his SA career bar a sudden last minute change of heart.

A huge shock and a huge loss for SA. Quota system claims another talented player

 

[Sin Nombre]

Very much a shock given he is finally getting names. Biggest profile loss in recent times. He is still only 29 so might end up playing for England.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

interesting. quota or not, he was always going to struggle.

 

[GenericBrand]

Tbf, Rabada and Philander are quality bowlers

 

[Convict]

interesting. quota or not, he was always going to struggle.

Not really. Steyn is at the end and Abbott is a class bowler.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Shocking

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Not really. Steyn is at the end and Abbott is a class bowler.

says who? he's got 3-4 solid years left atleast. quite possibly more. abbot is the weakest in that quartet so his place is always vulnerable.

 

[Convict]

says who? he's got 3-4 solid years left atleast. quite possibly more. abbot is the weakest in that quartet so his place is always vulnerable.

Steyn has nowhere near 3-4 years left.

 

[volcyz]

South Africa heading towards Zimbabwe status in the next couple of years with all the talent drain.

 

[Convict]

South Africa heading towards Zimbabwe status in the next couple of years with all the talent drain.

Big exaggeration.

South Africa will always have a strong first XI.

The issue for them will be how these departures effect debt.

Also got to consider the impact the weak value of the Rand has

 

[HussainRx8]

South Africa heading towards Zimbabwe status in the next couple of years with all the talent drain.

"White flight" has been a common feature of SA cricket. I think they will do just fine.

 

[volcyz]

You look at their domestic sides these days and see the players playing for them... e.g. the ram slam.

Not to be racist but seriously tons of passengers forced into every side.

You can only imagine more with the likes of Abbot, Hardus and possibly Rilee Rousouw departing and more to follow.

Look at Bavuma's performances these days, slowly but surely going down when the oppositions figure out his weaknesses, who's gonna replace him?

You need another player of color but who has potential?

 

[GullyCricketFlop]

Unbelievable!Is this a direct result of the farcical quota system?

 

[Junaids]

Two problems.

Stephen Cook's latest success and FAF's elevation to the captaincy means that the following are automatic selections within the "Five Whites" cap:

Cook
Du Plessis
De Villiers
De Kock

This means that Elgar, Steyn, Abbott and Morkel are fighting for one (1) place.

The other problem is Brexit. Kolpak and Bosman status will both be extinguished before the 2019 season starts.

We all assume that Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas will benefit. But we just don't know.

 

[MMHS]

Two problems.

Stephen Cook's latest success and FAF's elevation to the captaincy means that the following are automatic selections within the "Five Whites" cap:

Cook
Du Plessis
De Villiers
De Kock

This means that Elgar, Steyn, Abbott and Morkel are fighting for one (1) place.

The other problem is Brexit. Kolpak and Bosman status will both be extinguished before the 2019 season starts.

We all assume that Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas will benefit. But we just don't know.

What's the Bosman impact in soccer? Are they going to limit not British players in EPL?

 

[Junaids]

What's the Bosman impact in soccer? Are they going to limit not British players in EPL?

Currently any EU player can come, but non-EU players must have played 75% of their country's internationals the last two years.

There will be a sunset clause for EU nationals, then they will all end up treated in some future uniform way.

 

[MMHS]

Currently any EU player can come, but non-EU players must have played 75% of their country's internationals the last two years.

There will be a sunset clause for EU nationals, then they will all end up treated in some future uniform way.

Which means now below average English players will be bought & paid 3 times than their worth. Sir Henderson is going to cost Liverpool at least quarter million/week, for his passport & his trolling in that midfield.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Currently any EU player can come, but non-EU players must have played 75% of their country's internationals the last two years.

There will be a sunset clause for EU nationals, then they will all end up treated in some future uniform way.

That depends from country to country based on their ranking isnt it?

Pretty sure Brazil players only need to have 30% of their country games.

Also there is the exceptional talent category as well.

 

[Sin Nombre]

What's the Bosman impact in soccer? Are they going to limit not British players in EPL?

You are confusing Bosman and Brexit.

Bosman is FIFA regulations. Free transfer will stay free.

Brexit will prevent ease of movement of EU players especially those without international caps.

 

[Junaids]

That depends from country to country based on their ranking isnt it?

Pretty sure Brazil players only need to have 30% of their country games.

Also there is the exceptional talent category as well.

Why Brazil?

The two best teams that Germany played at the last World Cup were Algeria and Ghana!

Those matches ended 1-0 aet and 2-2. Not 7-1!

 

[Junaids]

You are confusing Bosman and Brexit.

Bosman is FIFA regulations. Free transfer will stay free.

Brexit will prevent ease of movement of EU players especially those without international caps.

Bosman is nothing to do with FIFA. It was to do with EU employment law. Which is why any EU national can have a free transfer within the EU when his contract ends.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Bosman is nothing to do with FIFA. It was to do with EU employment law. Which is why any EU national can have a free transfer within the EU when his contract ends.

It started as an EU ruling but is now incorporated into FIFA regs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/21/what-would-brexit-mean-for-the-premier-league/

The Bosman Rule, where a player can leave his club for free at the end of his contract, for example Daniel Sturridge’s move to Chelsea, would not change as the rule is encapsulated under FIFA and domestic rules and not reliant on European law.

 

[Junaids]

You are confusing Bosman and Brexit.

Bosman is FIFA regulations. Free transfer will stay free.

Brexit will prevent ease of movement of EU players especially those without international caps.

It started as an EU ruling but is now incorporated into FIFA regs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/21/what-would-brexit-mean-for-the-premier-league/

The Bosman Rule, where a player can leave his club for free at the end of his contract, for example Daniel Sturridge’s move to Chelsea, would not change as the rule is encapsulated under FIFA and domestic rules and not reliant on European law.

We are talking about different aspects of the Bosman ruling.
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] asked about foreign players in English football. And the answer to that is that EU nationals will require a Work Permit to live and work in the U.K. Post-Brexit.

The first half of the Bosman Ruling was about my personal bête noir: "Freedom of Movement".

 

[Sin Nombre]

We are talking about different aspects of the Bosman ruling.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] asked about foreign players in English football. And the answer to that is that EU nationals will require a Work Permit to live and work in the U.K. Post-Brexit.

The first half of the Bosman Ruling was about my personal bête noir: "Freedom of Movement".

Right.

I think the work permit rules will be made easy for EU nationals if/when Britain triggers Article 65 as part of some deal to continue access to the single market.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Why Brazil?

The two best teams that Germany played at the last World Cup were Algeria and Ghana!

Those matches ended 1-0 aet and 2-2. Not 7-1!

Because Brazil is regularly at the top end of the rankings and thats a criteria for giving work permit for Non-EU players.

 

[Junaids]

Because Brazil is regularly at the top end of the rankings and thats a criteria for giving work permit for Non-EU players.

Agreed, which is ridiculous given that Brazil bombed at the 2016 South American Championships where they were knocked out by Darkest Peru.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Agreed, which is ridiculous given that Brazil bombed at the 2016 South American Championships where they were knocked out by Darkest Peru.

Well every team goes through their transition and Brazil already looks one of the favourites for next WC under Tite

 

[Sin Nombre]

Well every team goes through their transition and Brazil already looks one of the favourites for next WC under Tite

Zero chance of that. There isn't enough talent in any position.

 

[Junaids]

Right.

I think the work permit rules will be made easy for EU nationals if/when Britain triggers Article 65 as part of some deal to continue access to the single market.

I think "Presidents" Juncker, Tusk and Schultz have decided to take a hard line to discourage the French and Dutch from leaving.

I don't think there will be single market access, and I don't think post-Brexit that additional EU nationals will enjoy any residence or work rights.

 

[MMHS]

^^ I know Bosman ruling - it started from a soccer player trying to get a free transfer, which was later related to work permit issues as a footballer is professional as well.

I know that, now unlimited EU players can play EPL, there is a FA ruling that you'll need 8 players over 21 on the day of 1st SEP of that year of British passport holder or players that has been within clubs under FA for 3 consecutive season between the age of 16 to 21 in your 25 men EPL or Championship squad. Theoretically, EPL clubs can play a non English XI in every match as long as Home Grown clause is met.

For foreign nationals outside EU - if his respective FIFA associated country is among top 75, he has to play one International at least in last 2 years to get an work permit (but the player can be bought - EPL clubs loan them in Portugal or Germany or Holland with softer work permit clauses). Even then, you can bring players & play them under "Special talent" rule, if you can prove that, the player adds value to English game for his exceptional talent.

What [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is telling, if that's implemented, now those English players that are pampered for home grown clause, will reach to 12th Cloud - because every team will need at least 7/8 English/British starters & 20+ players in squad.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Depends on the terms of the exit. At this moment, there is no panic to hoard average English footballers like Henderson.

 

[Junaids]

It could go the other way.

With the EPL likely to feature 150 English players per match day rather than 30, the wages might drop to German or Italian levels.

 

[soso_killer]

Not really. Steyn is at the end and Abbott is a class bowler.

But the OP states racial reasons for his omission.
I wasn't aware Steyn is a player of colour. And I was informed the Irish love and know their cricket.

 

[Junaids]

But the OP states racial reasons for his omission.
I wasn't aware Steyn is a player of colour. And I was informed the Irish love and know their cricket.

Five whites can be selected:

FAF
AB
De Kock
Cook

That leaves one of Abbott, Elgar, Morkel, Steyn and any other emerging white player.

 

[Swanny]

Why do people think SA cricket will have the same fate as Zim ? Zim cricket had hardly a few good cricketers in the Flower brothers, Streak, Cambell, et. whereas SA has consistently produced ATGs d/t their great domestic structure.

Ignorant people showing their ignorance.

 

[Junaids]

Why do people think SA cricket will have the same fate as Zim ? Zim cricket had hardly a few good cricketers in the Flower brothers, Streak, Cambell, et. whereas SA has consistently produced ATGs d/t their great domestic structure.

Ignorant people showing their ignorance.

South Africa's three greatest ATG's by universal agreement are Barry Richards, Mike Procter and Graeme Pollock. Then in the next group you have Kallis and Shaun Pollock and Steyn.

But think back to that ATG 1969-70 team. Under current policies, the five white places would have been occupied by the skipper Ali Bacher, Eddie Barlow, Peter Pollock, Graeme Pollock and Trevor Goddard.

Mike Procter and Barry Richards couldn't have been selected!

 

[soso_killer]

Complete rubbish, Abbot has been a permanent feature in the ODI's recently. He's put his hands up in Tests as well.

A huge shock and a huge loss for SA. Quota
system claims another talented player

Pure filth, which player of colour has unfairly left him out of the squad? Rabada? Philander?
If anything it was/has been Steyn who has kept him out in limited over internationals and hasn't merited a spot for a good while. In Tests the passenger that goes by the name of Morkel.

An article with no source or direct quotes linked can't be taken seriously anyway. Another attention seeking thread. Then again everyone wants to be famous. Congrats on your 5 minutes of fame.

 

[Convict]

But the OP states racial reasons for his omission.
I wasn't aware Steyn is a player of colour. And I was informed the Irish love and know their cricket.

What I heard from some expats here is that they reckon the Rand being really weak at the moment is making spending a few years in England far more attractive.

Apparently Abbott will be earning 100,000 pounds a year and that's about 1.7 million rand.

 

[Pakistanian]

It's pretty lame to blame the quota system for a subpar cricketer player choosing club over country.

I've noticed that when white players choose money over country, the media makes it seem like there just good old honest and hard working people with families that got wronged by racial discrimination, they ain't doin it for the money lol yet when West Indian players decide to not play for WICB cause they ain't being paid well or even at all everybody calls them clowns and that stems from the racist stereotype that Black people are lazy and unintelligent and need to be told in a patronizing way on what to do with job.

Unfortunately Asians and mideastern people buy into that propaganda and use the same stereotypes for Black people.

 

[transitional]

How many quota players are needed in playing XI?

 

[Pantani]

It's pretty lame to blame the quota system for a subpar cricketer player choosing club over country.

I've noticed that when white players choose money over country, the media makes it seem like there just good old honest and hard working people with families that got wronged by racial discrimination, they ain't doin it for the money lol yet when West Indian players decide to not play for WICB cause they ain't being paid well or even at all everybody calls them clowns and that stems from the racist stereotype that Black people are lazy and unintelligent and need to be told in a patronizing way on what to do with job.

Unfortunately Asians and mideastern people buy into that propaganda and use the same stereotypes for Black people.

Excellent post, the same people who criticise quotas in South Africa and hold the quotas as a valid justification for some players to go to England; will quite often slam West Indies cricketers for chasing T20 money.

I don't think South Africa will miss a step, Morkel will come straight into the team and he's quality. Steyn too at some point in the future. They have enough depth to hold the spot down for two or three years, in which time you would anticipate a young fast bowler will come up.

 

[Bewal Express]

The Quota is system is at play along with financial factors such as a weak Rand, and freedom to play in T20 tournies around the world. The problem with the quota system is that it makes the some non white players undroppable eg Duminy, unless there is another black/ coloured guy to take his place.

 

[HitWicket]

Very much a shock given he is finally getting names. Biggest profile loss in recent times. He is still only 29 so might end up playing for England.

At 36 years old? I seriously doubt it.

 

[HitWicket]

Hampshire also said to be in talks with Rilee Rossouw over a similar deal.

 

[A-1]

Damn

This guy was seriously accurate and relentless.

Another protea players bites the dust

 

[Dark Magician]

It's pretty lame to blame the quota system for a subpar cricketer player choosing club over country.

I've noticed that when white players choose money over country, the media makes it seem like there just good old honest and hard working people with families that got wronged by racial discrimination, they ain't doin it for the money lol yet when West Indian players decide to not play for WICB cause they ain't being paid well or even at all everybody calls them clowns and that stems from the racist stereotype that Black people are lazy and unintelligent and need to be told in a patronizing way on what to do with job.

Unfortunately Asians and mideastern people buy into that propaganda and use the same stereotypes for Black people.

Quote of the year. In actual fact a lot of posters here display the racists views that some white supremacist people have about black people in RSA. Abott is a regular so how is Qoutas pushing him out? Only a misguided person would think like that. But anyway top post this.

 

[Junaids]

Excellent post, the same people who criticise quotas in South Africa and hold the quotas as a valid justification for some players to go to England; will quite often slam West Indies cricketers for chasing T20 money.

I don't think South Africa will miss a step, Morkel will come straight into the team and he's quality. Steyn too at some point in the future. They have enough depth to hold the spot down for two or three years, in which time you would anticipate a young fast bowler will come up.

Steyn and Morkel can only be recalled if Elgar and Abbott are both dropped.

Otherwise that makes 6 whites.

 

[Pantani]

Steyn and Morkel can only be recalled if Elgar and Abbott are both dropped.

Otherwise that makes 6 whites.

Morkel in for Abbott who leaves on Kolpak

Steyn, if he returns later, comes in for Morkel

It shouldn't upset the team's composition or performance in the immediate future.

 

[SL_Fan]

Wow that would be a massive loss to SA if true. Gun bowler very under-rated for mine. Can't really blame him tbh.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Morkel in for Abbott who leaves on Kolpak

Steyn, if he returns later, comes in for Morkel

It shouldn't upset the team's composition or performance in the immediate future.

Steyn is going to be 34 soon, he has lot of mileage with lot of injury history, Morne is over 32 and inferior to Abbott.
Abbott will be a huge loss as he has really less mileage on body , he is 29 and even Vernon is over 31 with injury history.

 

[hadi123]

He's a snake, would hate him if I was a South African fan

 

[Markhor]

Hampshire only avoided relegation thanks to the ECB's sanctions on Durham and their bowling attack was poor all season so you can see why they wanted Abbott.

With Steyn and Morkel past their best and having fitness issues, one would've thought Abbott would've got a run in the side. Yes there was the 2015 WC selection drama, but I don't buy a resentment towards quotas has driven this decision any more than financial motivations, especially with SA's weak currency.

Although you don't want to weaken the standard of your FC cricket, South Africa maybe could consider expanding the number of franchises in their domestic competition to give more opportunities to cricketers and prevent the drain of talent.

 

[HitWicket]

Hampshire only avoided relegation thanks to the ECB's sanctions on Durham and their bowling attack was poor all season so you can see why they wanted Abbott.

To be fair the 2 intended strike bowlers in Fidel Edwards and Reece Topley did get themselves injured for the entire season.

 

[Napa]

All good news for India. Hope we are now able to beat SA in SA.

Compared to having the freedom to choose the best 11 irrespective of race, it should be obvious that quotas can only produce a weaker team.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Has agreed a 3-4 year Kolpak deal with Hampsire apparently and will retire later this month. For those who don't know Kolpak players cannot play internationally for their home nation during their contract, so this will essentially end his SA career bar a sudden last minute change of heart.

A huge shock and a huge loss for SA. Quota system claims another talented player

This won't be a problem at all.


South Africa have :


1. Dane Patterson

2. GC Viljoen

3. Merchant De Lange

4. Chris Morris

5. Dwaine Pretorius

6. Duanne Oliver


All quality pacers with 3 of them capable of hitting 150 kph aswell.


South Africa have no problem at all replacing Abbott.


Steyn again touched 150 kph in Australia and looked at his very best. If upon his comeback he doesn't get unfit for next 6 months than He may break McGrath's record and play 2-3 years. Phillander & Rabada are already doing excellent job.

 

[HitWicket]

This won't be a problem at all.


South Africa have :


1. Dane Patterson

2. GC Viljoen

3. Merchant De Lange

4. Chris Morris

5. Dwaine Pretorius

6. Duanne Oliver


All quality pacers with 3 of them capable of hitting 150 kph aswell.


South Africa have no problem at all replacing Abbott.


Steyn again touched 150 kph in Australia and looked at his very best. If upon his comeback he doesn't get unfit for next 6 months than He may break McGrath's record and play 2-3 years. Phillander & Rabada are already doing excellent job.

Viljoens now a kolpak by the way.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Complete rubbish, Abbot has been a permanent feature in the ODI's recently. He's put his hands up in Tests as well.


Pure filth, which player of colour has unfairly left him out of the squad? Rabada? Philander?
If anything it was/has been Steyn who has kept him out in limited over internationals and hasn't merited a spot for a good while. In Tests the passenger that goes by the name of Morkel.

An article with no source or direct quotes linked can't be taken seriously anyway. Another attention seeking thread. Then again everyone wants to be famous. Congrats on your 5 minutes of fame.

You want quotes you're more than welcome to search for the article.

The article cites the fact he had to wait so long for a permanent slot in ODI's/Tests due to the quota system as a definite factor in his decision, as well as the weak Rand and better wages he'll receive in England.

I'll even post the quote from the article which all but blames quotas if you like, don't be surprised if its removed in a minute though

It may be relevant, too, that Abbott was the man to make way for Vernon Philander in the World Cup semi-final a year ago. Whatever the merits and reasons for that decision, it has left some South African cricketers uncertain of their futures.

Really don't see how you can deny the quota system had a part in his decision tbh. Forcibly dropped from the WC semi final to accommodate a non fully fit Philander, spent years getting miniscule chances internationally. Then look at the volume of SA players leaving like Van Der Merwe, Viljoen, Harmer plenty of others as well, its partially money related of course but to deny the lack of opportunities these guys will get due to the quotas required in the national and domestic sides is wrong IMO, its likely a factor.

 

[Swanny]

South Africa's three greatest ATG's by universal agreement are Barry Richards, Mike Procter and Graeme Pollock. Then in the next group you have Kallis and Shaun Pollock and Steyn.

But think back to that ATG 1969-70 team. Under current policies, the five white places would have been occupied by the skipper Ali Bacher, Eddie Barlow, Peter Pollock, Graeme Pollock and Trevor Goddard.

Mike Procter and Barry Richards couldn't have been selected!

My point is if the coaching institutes in SA are good enough they'd be able to expand their reach to black & coloured folks too. Besides the SA domestic structure is good enough to mould great players.

It's just the question of getting the non white folks there to develop an interest & SA will be fine.

 

[Dark Magician]

You want quotes you're more than welcome to search for the article.

The article cites the fact he had to wait so long for a permanent slot in ODI's/Tests due to the quota system as a definite factor in his decision, as well as the weak Rand and better wages he'll receive in England.

I'll even post the quote from the article which all but blames quotas if you like, don't be surprised if its removed in a minute though



Really don't see how you can deny the quota system had a part in his decision tbh. Forcibly dropped from the WC semi final to accommodate a non fully fit Philander, spent years getting miniscule chances internationally. Then look at the volume of SA players leaving like Van Der Merwe, Viljoen, Harmer plenty of others as well, its partially money related of course but to deny the lack of opportunities these guys will get due to the quotas required in the national and domestic sides is wrong IMO, its likely a factor.

Any white person who wants to leave blaming qoutas should leave. No. One is entitled to play cricket because they are white. The country comes first. If it's true he's leaving because of qoutas then good luck to him. Let him enjoy the green grass on the other side. Cricket will go on and on.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Any white person who wants to leave blaming qoutas should leave. No. One is entitled to play cricket because they are white. The country comes first. If it's true he's leaving because of qoutas then good luck to him. Let him enjoy the green grass on the other side. Cricket will go on and on.

How the hell did you get that message

I agree with it btw, no one is entitled to play international cricket through any means bar ability IMO

 

[Markhor]

My point is if the coaching institutes in SA are good enough they'd be able to expand their reach to black & coloured folks too. Besides the SA domestic structure is good enough to mould great players.

It's just the question of getting the non white folks there to develop an interest & SA will be fine.

That's one part of the issue but not the whole story.

The reason why fewer black South Africans take up cricket is due to socio-economics not because they have some inherent dislike for the sport. More than HALF of black children grow up in poverty and the majority of government schools do not play cricket.

Temba Bavuma and Kagiso Rabada came from middle-class backgrounds and attended private schools that tend to have excellent cricketing facilities.

If the majority of the black population had access to the same cricketing facilities that their white counterparts have had in those private and top government schools - don't you think there'd be more black cricketers ?

To be fair to CSA - they are trying. They've set up 11 performance centres and 46 clubs recently targeting disadvantaged areas.

Quotas however in the long-term is insufficient to achieve transformation. It requires genuine political will to bring about economic empowerment of the black majority, many of whom still in crippling poverty in what is statistically the most unequal country in the world. It is shameful that the ANC have failed to live up to Madiba's legacy and have taken their constituents for granted, leaving a trail of rampant corruption.

 

[MMHS]

South Africa's three greatest ATG's by universal agreement are Barry Richards, Mike Procter and Graeme Pollock. Then in the next group you have Kallis and Shaun Pollock and Steyn.

But think back to that ATG 1969-70 team. Under current policies, the five white places would have been occupied by the skipper Ali Bacher, Eddie Barlow, Peter Pollock, Graeme Pollock and Trevor Goddard.

Mike Procter and Barry Richards couldn't have been selected!

A bit redundant logic - that time quota system was for 11 white players hence Makhyas & Amlas & Rabadas & Phillanders had no chance to play for their country, and few like D'oliviera had to leave for other country,

I am not saying racial quota is good, but may be this the only way cricket can survive in SAF. In a country where cricket is gradually losing it's charm, only way you can keep it running is bringing 85% people more into the game. May be for few years it's harsh on white players, but gradually it'll be normalized with talented players coming from non white community & SAF will remain a strong side as long as the game is followed with interest by mass.

What you are trying to say is foolish - it's not like white race in SAF are genetically superior cricketer hence limiting their quota will make SAF poor team. In 70s, only white cricketers were available because non whites were not allowed to even represent major FC teams & talent couldn't come from that community. In that regard, white players actually got a free ride then - if you want to argue, next time I'll put Ali Bacher's stats for posters to judge how that guy could have been the Captain of a Test side.

I think, we had enough discussion on this - none of the current non white players are making the team for their skin colour; may be there are better players; but Rabada, Amla, Mahraj, Tahir, Phillander, Bavuma, Shamshi are performing as well. More that colour quota, I feel Abbott is leaving for a better fortune with stronger currency - other wise, Morkel would have left earlier.

By the way - nice try. Can you show any prove (universal won't be needed) which puts Jaque Kallis, Pollck & Styen a level below to players playing in total 33/34 Tests - that too only against 3 white sides? I can put a counter logic that Greme Pollocks average would have been below 50 had he played another 23 Tests against IND, PAK & WI spinners - but that will be again hypothesis without proof.

 

[Thivagar]

It's pretty lame to blame the quota system for a subpar cricketer player choosing club over country.

I've noticed that when white players choose money over country, the media makes it seem like there just good old honest and hard working people with families that got wronged by racial discrimination, they ain't doin it for the money lol yet when West Indian players decide to not play for WICB cause they ain't being paid well or even at all everybody calls them clowns and that stems from the racist stereotype that Black people are lazy and unintelligent and need to be told in a patronizing way on what to do with job.

Unfortunately Asians and mideastern people buy into that propaganda and use the same stereotypes for Black people.

Because that is the truth. South Africa would have been far better if it wasn't for the racial quotas. I can understand why the quota is in place but unfortunately some people have to suffer for it. West Indies players do get criticized for being selfish but you can't blame them too much, a cricketer's career comes to an end by late 30s. WICB should have worked with their star players, allowed them to participate in T20 leagues and used their fame to lure in sponsors. Beside WI is not a country.

 

[Swanny]

That's one part of the issue but not the whole story.

The reason why fewer black South Africans take up cricket is due to socio-economics not because they have some inherent dislike for the sport. More than HALF of black children grow up in poverty and the majority of government schools do not play cricket.

Temba Bavuma and Kagiso Rabada came from middle-class backgrounds and attended private schools that tend to have excellent cricketing facilities.

If the majority of the black population had access to the same cricketing facilities that their white counterparts have had in those private and top government schools - don't you think there'd be more black cricketers ?

To be fair to CSA - they are trying. They've set up 11 performance centres and 46 clubs recently targeting disadvantaged areas.

Quotas however in the long-term is insufficient to achieve transformation. It requires genuine political will to bring about economic empowerment of the black majority, many of whom still in crippling poverty in what is statistically the most unequal country in the world. It is shameful that the ANC have failed to live up to Madiba's legacy and have taken their constituents for granted, leaving a trail of rampant corruption.

People in the subcontinent aren't exactly rich. Loads of great cricketers come out of poverty. Atleast SA has better cricketing facilities & structure as compared to SC countries.

 

[Thivagar]

Any white person who wants to leave blaming qoutas should leave. No. One is entitled to play cricket because they are white. The country comes first. If it's true he's leaving because of qoutas then good luck to him. Let him enjoy the green grass on the other side. Cricket will go on and on.

If that is the case, then why do you need a quota ? Don't you want the best players representing your nation ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Big exaggeration.

South Africa will always have a strong first XI.

The issue for them will be how these departures effect debt.

Also got to consider the impact the weak value of the Rand has

[MENTION=4361]volcyz[/MENTION] is right. Even zimbabwe didn't decline in a year. Quota system will affect south african team selection which in turn will affect their performance. Those who used to make fun of Kevin Pietersen will now understand why he chose to play for England over South Africa.

 

[soso_killer]

You want quotes you're more than welcome to search for the article.

The article cites the fact he had to wait so long for a permanent slot in ODI's/Tests due to the quota system as a definite factor in his decision, as well as the weak Rand and better wages he'll receive in England.

I'll even post the quote from the article which all but blames quotas if you like, don't be surprised if its removed in a minute though



Really don't see how you can deny the quota system had a part in his decision tbh. Forcibly dropped from the WC semi final to accommodate a non fully fit Philander, spent years getting miniscule chances internationally. Then look at the volume of SA players leaving like Van Der Merwe, Viljoen, Harmer plenty of others as well, its partially money related of course but to deny the lack of opportunities these guys will get due to the quotas required in the national and domestic sides is wrong IMO, its likely a factor.

Again absolute nonsense.
Abbot hasn't been a permanent feature in the side for one reason or the other. Race has nothing to do with it.

But let's talk race which is good at generating clicks and views and since we want to eat the 2014 World Cup for the rest of our lives. The year is currently 2017 by the way.
A half fit Philander bowled better than Steyn, what does that say about Steyn? He's entitled to a spot coz his white? Isn't that "reverse racism"?
The fact that he bowled a juicy length ball to lose the game for SA had nothing to do with Steyn right? Let's blame it on the player of colour who had a better tournament than Steyn.

What about QdK woeful world cup? Why was he playing despite being poor continuously? Are white players from a divine race that is immune to criticism?

 

[Chrish]

Rilee Russow in talks with Hampsire as well

 

[Drreddymd]

This quota will give free ride to players like jp duminy who is a passenger most of the times because there is no alternative for him which makes his spot permanent

 

[soso_killer]

The "quota players" have just taken 10 Sri Lankan wickets.
Abbott 0 despite bowling with the new cherry. He must be livid for being left out the squad by a bunch of nobodies who happen to be brutal match winners.

Must be nice to be a non performing white player, all the blame is on race. You bowl a length ball at a crucial juncture of a semi final to cost your team. Who do we blame? the black player of course, everything else is irrelevant. Including an insipid and an uninspiring captain who came with the idea of a length ball. Completely oblivious to the match situation.

One can be a passenger throughout the WC, so long as they are white.
Another player who was capped for over 70 Tests has no 10-for and a handful of 5-fors kept Abbott out of the side. He happens to be white by the way. Over 70 matches and not one match winning spell.

Of course Abbott won't put these facts into consideration. It's to easy to blanket everything together and simply blame race.

I have zero respect for such mentality. If one wants to analyse SA"s problems including why they lost the world cup to simply blame it on race is stupid and lazy.

 

[soso_killer]

[MENTION=4361]volcyz[/MENTION] is right. Even zimbabwe didn't decline in a year. Quota system will affect south african team selection which in turn will affect their performance. Those who used to make fun of Kevin Pietersen will now understand why he chose to play for England over South Africa.

KP was never good enough for his state side, never mind South Africa. His struggles in this country suggest that.
But hey, when India wins a series here, we'll talk about the decline

 

[Pantani]

Quotas or no quotas, people are always going to immigrate. England has been the destination for foreign born players from Africa, Asia and the Caribbean since the 1890s! It just happens to be a fact of life that people are going to want to live in places where they will earn more and where their kids will grow up with more opportunities and better quality of life. That is the basis of immigration.

So if South Africa wants to prevent the talent drain, conditions as a whole across the country, economically and socially, have to improve. Quotas has almost nothing to do with it - otherwise this phenomenon of African cricketers relocating to England would be a brand new thing that just started recently, when in fact it has been happening for over a hundred years.

 

[soso_killer]

What I heard from some expats here is that they reckon the Rand being really weak at the moment is making spending a few years in England far more attractive.

Apparently Abbott will be earning 100,000 pounds a year and that's about 1.7 million rand.

yeah that's about right. If money is what he is after then good luck to him. I would never blame a guy who wants to secure his future.
However to start blaming race for everything would be lazy.

 

[Drreddymd]

Kp spitted on every southafrican who thought he is not good enough by his performances all over the world.u have the gall to say otherwise

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Again absolute nonsense.
Abbot hasn't been a permanent feature in the side for one reason or the other. Race has nothing to do with it.

But let's talk race which is good at generating clicks and views and since we want to eat the 2014 World Cup for the rest of our lives. The year is currently 2017 by the way.
A half fit Philander bowled better than Steyn, what does that say about Steyn? He's entitled to a spot coz his white? Isn't that "reverse racism"?
The fact that he bowled a juicy length ball to lose the game for SA had nothing to do with Steyn right? Let's blame it on the player of colour who had a better tournament than Steyn.

What about QdK woeful world cup? Why was he playing despite being poor continuously? Are white players from a divine race that is immune to criticism?

Did I say Steyn was any good? I didn't even mention him. In ODI's he's always been about average as far as I'm concerned. Where did I even blame Philander for the loss?? He wasn't the worst bowler by any means, that was Steyn as you said,but Philander was still sub par and the thing is Philander replaced Abbott who had had a good tournament up to that point, and its generally accepted this was a decision not made on grounds of ability but on grounds of race, hence Abbott and other white cricketers as the article mentions feel unvalued and have started to move elsewhere. Is it the only reason?? No, money is another factor, but the lack of playing opportunities these guys see themselves getting due to quotas is definitely a factor.

QDK was awful, correct. His continuous selection I can only assume was due to the lack of other openers in the squad, plus he kept which reduced the strain on AB DeVilliers.

You've turned this thread where I and other feel white SA cricketers are being badly done by and are leaving due to quotas into a "white people are immune to criticism" argument, which absolutely nobody on this thread claimed and nobody on this thread was saying. I could just as easily turn around the argument if I wanted and claim that according to you non white people are immune to criticism but that'd be nonsense so I won't do so.

Point is in a WC semi final Abbott who was playing well was dumped for a half fit bowler purely because he was white. Whatever way you spin it it's wrong. I've read your arguments on quotas in the past and I accept as a Saffer you have far more knowledge on the topic than I, I accept that to some extent quotas may be necessary, but not to the extent they are being implemented. As [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] points out the development of underage cricket and establishment of clubs and performance centres in these communities is much better because over time they will produce international cricketers for SA anyway if implemented correctly. It is necessary and good that SA is trying to reach out to the underdeveloped black community in the country, but to do so at the expense of several talented white cricketers, whatever way you look at it, is wrong IMO. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[soso_killer]

Five whites can be selected:

FAF
AB
De Kock
Cook

That leaves one of Abbott, Elgar, Morkel, Steyn and any other emerging white player.

what does your pseudocode and psychoanalysis have to do with my post above?

 

[Drreddymd]

Race is to be blamed because team is decided on basis of race and not on performance.if u r so confident that black players are good enough then why the need of quota?

 

[Swanny]

I love how Abott suddenly became a future ATG in people's eyes . I trust SA will have an able replacement in no time.

 

[soso_killer]

Did I say Steyn was any good? I didn't even mention him. In ODI's he's always been about average as far as I'm concerned. Where did I even blame Philander for the loss?? He wasn't the worst bowler by any means, that was Steyn as you said,but Philander was still sub par and the thing is Philander replaced Abbott who had had a good tournament up to that point, and its generally accepted this was a decision not made on grounds of ability but on grounds of race, hence Abbott and other white cricketers as the article mentions feel unvalued and have started to move elsewhere. Is it the only reason?? No, money is another factor, but the lack of playing opportunities these guys see themselves getting due to quotas is definitely a factor.

QDK was awful, correct. His continuous selection I can only assume was due to the lack of other openers in the squad, plus he kept which reduced the strain on AB DeVilliers.

You've turned this thread where I and other feel white SA cricketers are being badly done by and are leaving due to quotas into a "white people are immune to criticism" argument, which absolutely nobody on this thread claimed and nobody on this thread was saying. I could just as easily turn around the argument if I wanted and claim that according to you non white people are immune to criticism but that'd be nonsense so I won't do so.

Point is in a WC semi final Abbott who was playing well was dumped for a half fit bowler purely because he was white. Whatever way you spin it it's wrong. I've read your arguments on quotas in the past and I accept as a Saffer you have far more knowledge on the topic than I, I accept that to some extent quotas may be necessary, but not to the extent they are being implemented. As [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] points out the development of underage cricket and establishment of clubs and performance centres in these communities is much better because over time they will produce international cricketers for SA anyway if implemented correctly. It is necessary and good that SA is trying to reach out to the underdeveloped black community in the country, but to do so at the expense of several talented white cricketers, whatever way you look at it, is wrong IMO. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Actually again you are factually incorrect. Again these rubbish articles the world has been reading have a tunnel vision. It was Abbott who replaced Philander, not the other way around.
Philander's role for that world cup was always to strengthen a fragile batting unit. When Steyn failed to perform in that world cup. He created problems for the selectors.
Philander was always going to play half fit or not.

Going into that world cup it was deemed that the bowling was not the problem but the batting (remember SA couldn't even chase 3 runs). When the bowling also struggled thanks to Steyn. The selectors failed to adapt. Abbott was never a like for like replacement for Philander. The guy you're looking for is Steyn.

Rille would have done a better job opening than QdK in that tournament

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

KP was never good enough for his state side, never mind South Africa. His struggles in this country suggest that.
But hey, when India wins a series here, we'll talk about the decline

Meh what has india got to do with south africa's decline?