Let's get something very clear - our batting was the biggest culprit in Pune

[sensible-indian-fan]

First of all, I want to start off this post by giving a shout out to everyone who said Aus have been comprehensively outbatted, outbowled, outfielded and out-reviewed India.

They are 100% right.

So let's get that out of the way so as to not run around in circles.

But after watching this game, I firmly believe the BIGGEST blame lies with our batsmen:

Here's What Australian Batsmen Did:

1. Get fully forward or backward. No indecision.

2. Play within the line in such a way that the straighter balls and the slight spinning ones are defended while the big turners are beaten.

Here's What Indian Batsmen Did:

1. Not forward or backward. Stuck in between.

2. Playing for spin instead of within the line. This meant our batsmen rarely got beaten but they got out more often.

The Crazy Part:

If you had a spinner who is turning the balls properly and then getting a few to go straight one (a la Herath), then its harder to judge and play.

But O Keefe was turning the rare ball while bowling all straight and YET our batsmen couldn't play him at all even though they knew he wasn't turning anything at all.

They didn't even bother to cover the line for the straight one or the slightly spinning one (like the Aussies did) even though they knew that was ALL they were getting.

1. Vijay - Not forward enough. Bat angled for spin. Straight ball. LBW.

2. Pujara - Not covering for the straight and slight turn and instead playing for proper turn. Straight ball. LBW.

3. Kohli - Fully forward (he was doing that properly) but didn't cover the line. Straight ball. Bowled.

4. Rahane - Jolly good overpitched delivery driven to fielder. Tu rehne de bhai. Tujse nahi hoga. Won't blame Rahane cos he is too incompetent against spin anyway.

5. Ashwin - Mr thinker who was so genius that he played a FULL pitched straight delivery with the bat BEHIND the pad.....gotta be some special stupid to do that but hey he did it....

6. Saha - Good length delivery played on backfoot and misses a straight ball and was plumb.

If you lose wickets like this to straight deliveries when that's all you get,

It does NOT matter if you have an extra bat or not.
It does NOT matter if your spinners didn't bowl full enough or penetrative enough (which they didn't).
It does NOT matter if your WK can bat or not.

Unless our batsmen change their approach and make the correction, it doesn't matter how much the rest of the variables change.

Humiliating and humbling loss.

Lots of introspection needed.

I could accept Monty destroying us (he turned several viciously and got many to straighten) but this.....man, this is Moeen Ali destruction level stuff and even in that case, Moeen was getting some serious drift to threaten both edges.

I have no words to describe this test.

Congrats Aussies. You deserve this win.

The star of the show O Keefe has come to a gunfight with a knife and stabbed everyone to death.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

To start off, the Indian batsmen need to distinguish between O Keefe's straighter deliveries and his other straighter deliveries. Expect him to come up with a third straighter delivery before the next Test starts though. Should call it the teesra

 

[Convict]

The star of the show O Keefe has come to a gunfight with a knife and stabbed everyone to death.

Spin Over Kill

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rookie Lankan bats played O Keefe better than India.

Atleast till O Keefe was injured.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/995451.html

 

[TestMatch]

I hope India prepares similar pitches for the next game; I love seeing everyone confused.

We seem to be in an era in which nobody can play masterly on spinning Asian pitches, and where nobody can bat masterly in swinging English conditions.

In these conditions, victory seems to go to the team who an scrap together the most 20s-30s, or who can scrap together a plucky 100.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

1 loss and the knives are out. Let them play the full series first. India can have an off game too. We are not invincible. Looking forward to second test now. This series is alive.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I hope India prepares similar pitches for the next game; I love seeing everyone confused.

We seem to be in an era in which nobody can play masterly on spinning Asian pitches, and where nobody can bat masterly in swinging English conditions.

In these conditions, victory seems to go to the team who an scrap together the most 20s-30s, or who can scrap together a plucky 100.

We lost cos we didn't play O Keefe's deliveries well.

Lyon who was turning it a mile went at 4 rpo for 45 runs before he got a bunch of wickets at the end. Maybe he was unlucky but was defo manageable by the top order bats.

Check out the fall of wickets in hotstar. You will die laughing. Action replay galore.

1 loss and the knives are out. Let them play the full series first. India can have an off game too. We are not invincible. Looking forward to second test now. This series is alive.

Bhai did you even bother to read my OP or just saw the headline and commented?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

We lost cos we didn't play O Keefe's deliveries well.

Lyon who was turning it a mile went at 4 rpo for 45 runs before he got a bunch of wickets at the end. Maybe he was unlucky but was defo manageable by the top order bats.

Check out the fall of wickets in hotstar. You will die laughing. Action replay galore.



Bhai did you even bother to read my OP or just saw the headline and commented?

I read it. This is why I am saying let them play the full series first.

 

[Drreddymd]

Please throw that useless rahane, jayant loopy fulltoss, no spin yadav,tailender saha.


Play a sixth batsman like Nair.

I m afraid ashwin is going the way of eng 2012 series where he is trying too many things, leaking runs a plenty.

If Ashwin performs as he did in this test then india has no chance.

 

[Drreddymd]

We lost cos we didn't play O Keefe's deliveries well.

Lyon who was turning it a mile went at 4 rpo for 45 runs before he got a bunch of wickets at the end. Maybe he was unlucky but was defo manageable by the top order bats.

Check out the fall of wickets in hotstar. You will die laughing. Action replay galore.



Bhai did you even bother to read my OP or just saw the headline and commented?

Sif we have to play another spinner than jayant as he is not putting much revs on the ball by not using his body in to his action.

He went at 5 runs a over in a low scoring game

 

[Drreddymd]

Will they play kuldeep yadav or play an extra batsman with two fast bowlers

 

[Rayyman]

I want India to smash Aussies after what the Aus. did to us. Although seeing India lose was fun too.

 

[Drreddymd]

For god sake use drs well. Kohli drs usage is shambolic. It also costed dearly with two howlers being non challenged as we exausted them

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I read it. This is why I am saying let them play the full series first.

That's not the point of this thread.

Its about what happened in this test and lack of adjustment by batsmen against a certain bowler even when facts were staring right across their face.

Please throw that useless rahane, jayant loopy fulltoss, no spin yadav,tailender saha.

Play a sixth batsman like Nair.
I m afraid ashwin is going the way of eng 2012 series where he is trying too many things, leaking runs a plenty.

If Ashwin performs as he did in this test then india has no chance.

Need a 6th bat for sure. Our confidence is shaken.

Jayant will mostly be dropped too.

Ashwin hasn't been his usual self for sure. Needs to improve or just take off from this series and treat his injury.

 

[Aman]

What happens to Rahul? He's way too hit and miss, you need someone more consistent opening.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sif we have to play another spinner than jayant as he is not putting much revs on the ball by not using his body in to his action.

He went at 5 runs a over in a low scoring game

Jayant's issue is high bounce pitches.

As a bowler, he is average.

As a batsman, he probably has more potential than Ashwin.

Will be dropped for now.

Back to 4 bowler strategy for the time being (2+2 or 1+3) cos our batting will have no confidence in the next test.

 

[Itachi]

We played in a worst way. Deserved to be a loser.

 

[Drreddymd]

Jayant's issue is high bounce pitches.

As a bowler, he is average.

As a batsman, he probably has more potential than Ashwin.

Will be dropped for now.

Back to 4 bowler strategy for the time being (2+2 or 1+3) cos our batting will have no confidence in the next test.

Will rahane survive ? Will kohli be as ruthless with rahane as he has with pujara?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Will rahane survive ? Will kohli be as ruthless with rahane as he has with pujara?

Don't know.

He may survive with Nair coming in for Jayant.

 

[Drreddymd]

Don't know.

He may survive with Nair coming in for Jayant.

Will india still play 2 fast men ?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Will india still play 2 fast men ?

Most likely.

But Ishant may be dropped and I think that Aniket guy may be roped in.

We don't know but some serious changes are gonna happen.

 

[Drreddymd]

Don't know.

He may survive with Nair coming in for Jayant.

How to overcome saha batting problem ?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

How to overcome saha batting problem ?

Can't overcome it.

We have to deal with it.

Ashwin at number 6 is a dangerous move. Never believed in it even when he was scoring runs. Number 6 should go to batsmen who can convert 50s into 100s.

 

[Drreddymd]

Saha if he survive atleast 30 balls he can scrape some runs but he gets out within 10 balls against good teams

 

[Drreddymd]

Can't overcome it.

We have to deal with it.

Ashwin at number 6 is a dangerous move. Never believed in it even when he was scoring runs. Number 6 should go to batsmen who can convert 50s into 100s.

Then will 4 bowlers take 20 wickets as we struggled against eng, ban, when wickets are flat

 

[Drreddymd]

If we had shami we can manage but with ishant non threatening and if Ashwin leaks runs as usual it will result in draws

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Then will 4 bowlers take 20 wickets as we struggled against eng, ban, when wickets are flat

Well...that's why we play 5 bowlers.

When you get a flat track and just have 4 bowlers and one of them has an off day, you are pretty much dead meat.

Jayant was the perfect 5th bowler. Solid bat and a decent bowler. Too bad he has been very expensive on bounce pitches. I would still wait for a while before giving up on him.

For now, we will mostly go with 6 bats with Vijay doing the 5th bowler's job if needed.

 

[Drreddymd]

Well...that's why we play 5 bowlers.

When you get a flat track and just have 4 bowlers and one of them has an off day, you are pretty much dead meat.

Jayant was the perfect 5th bowler. Solid bat and a decent bowler. Too bad he has been very expensive on bounce pitches. I would still wait for a while before giving up on him.

For now, we will mostly go with 6 bats with Vijay doing the 5th bowler's job if needed.

Why not play parthiv and ask him to open or play him at 7 as he is a proper batsman than saha.

 

[SunRay]

Please throw that useless rahane, jayant loopy fulltoss, no spin yadav,tailender saha.


Play a sixth batsman like Nair.

I m afraid ashwin is going the way of eng 2012 series where he is trying too many things, leaking runs a plenty.

If Ashwin performs as he did in this test then india has no chance.

Jayant's issue is high bounce pitches.

As a bowler, he is average.

As a batsman, he probably has more potential than Ashwin.

Will be dropped for now.

Back to 4 bowler strategy for the time being (2+2 or 1+3) cos our batting will have no confidence in the next test.

I don't think he should be dropped. He's an excellent prospect and he should be given more time.

This wicket wasn't that suitable for him. He's quite slow through the air and mostly depends on his flight to deceive the batsman.

But the wicket of the last ind-aus test was such that bowlers who didn't give the ball a good air and just fired it in got the most out of the wicket. Hence, both ash and Yadav looked less threatening compared to O'Keefe or jadeja.

But we aren't going to play on this types of wicket always. Jayant is a must on traditional slow low Indian wicket because of his Natural ability to bowl slow loopy deliveries.

 

[Romali_rotti]

First of all, I want to start off this post by giving a shout out to everyone who said Aus have been comprehensively outbatted, outbowled, outfielded and out-reviewed India.

They are 100% right.

So let's get that out of the way so as to not run around in circles.

But after watching this game, I firmly believe the BIGGEST blame lies with our batsmen:

Here's What Australian Batsmen Did:

1. Get fully forward or backward. No indecision.

2. Play within the line in such a way that the straighter balls and the slight spinning ones are defended while the big turners are beaten.

Here's What Indian Batsmen Did:

1. Not forward or backward. Stuck in between.

2. Playing for spin instead of within the line. This meant our batsmen rarely got beaten but they got out more often.

The Crazy Part:

If you had a spinner who is turning the balls properly and then getting a few to go straight one (a la Herath), then its harder to judge and play.

But O Keefe was turning the rare ball while bowling all straight and YET our batsmen couldn't play him at all even though they knew he wasn't turning anything at all.

They didn't even bother to cover the line for the straight one or the slightly spinning one (like the Aussies did) even though they knew that was ALL they were getting.

1. Vijay - Not forward enough. Bat angled for spin. Straight ball. LBW.

2. Pujara - Not covering for the straight and slight turn and instead playing for proper turn. Straight ball. LBW.

3. Kohli - Fully forward (he was doing that properly) but didn't cover the line. Straight ball. Bowled.

4. Rahane - Jolly good overpitched delivery driven to fielder. Tu rehne de bhai. Tujse nahi hoga. Won't blame Rahane cos he is too incompetent against spin anyway.

5. Ashwin - Mr thinker who was so genius that he played a FULL pitched straight delivery with the bat BEHIND the pad.....gotta be some special stupid to do that but hey he did it....

6. Saha - Good length delivery played on backfoot and misses a straight ball and was plumb.

If you lose wickets like this to straight deliveries when that's all you get,

It does NOT matter if you have an extra bat or not.
It does NOT matter if your spinners didn't bowl full enough or penetrative enough (which they didn't).
It does NOT matter if your WK can bat or not.

Unless our batsmen change their approach and make the correction, it doesn't matter how much the rest of the variables change.

Humiliating and humbling loss.

Lots of introspection needed.

I could accept Monty destroying us (he turned several viciously and got many to straighten) but this.....man, this is Moeen Ali destruction level stuff and even in that case, Moeen was getting some serious drift to threaten both edges.

I have no words to describe this test.

Congrats Aussies. You deserve this win.

The star of the show O Keefe has come to a gunfight with a knife and stabbed everyone to death.

I wouldnt panic as this loss was mainly due to the wicket. Even if Jadeja and Ashwin bowled just as good as the aussie spinners and India was chasing a modest total of 150 odd they would have still lost imo....I expect them to rebound next match but I would just get rid of Rahul, that kid is just not reliable, I am expecting India to bounce back and win the next one...

 

[JaDed]

Massively disappointed with Rahane upto an extent that i have lost faith in him to perform in India.

During the match they showed the second innings average of batsmen in the home season,the openers had 19,20 and Rahane something similar.

Only Kohli and Pujara had averages close to 50 (I think).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I wouldnt panic as this loss was mainly due to the wicket. Even if Jadeja and Ashwin bowled just as good as the aussie spinners and India was chasing a modest total of 150 odd they would have still lost imo....I expect them to rebound next match but I would just get rid of Rahul, that kid is just not reliable, I am expecting India to bounce back and win the next one...

Not saying we would lose the next tests.

But we have to adjust for the O Keefe straighter balls.

The whole world knew what was happening and yet we kept getting out the same way. I was talking about that.

 

[SunRay]

Rahane out

Karun in.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Why not play parthiv and ask him to open or play him at 7 as he is a proper batsman than saha.

Cos what happened with Smith this game will happen with Parthiv every game.

He messed up around 5-10 chances in a span of just 3 games against Eng. All top order bats.

 

[Saurav]

Why not play parthiv and ask him to open or play him at 7 as he is a proper batsman than saha.

No place for goalkeepers in cricket

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Hope this time no Indians should blame the pitch

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Hope this time no Indians should blame the pitch

Indians have never blamed the pitches for loss.

Home or away.

 

[Romali_rotti]

But we have to adjust for the O Keefe straighter balls.

.

No We dont, Okeefe got an unbelievable wicket like Nathan Hauritz got in Mumbai in 2004, he will never see a wicket like that again in his life. Next wicket will be a road, which will be used to demoralize him and at worst we should get away with a draw, otherwise the wisdom and experience of Ashwin/Jadeja may see us through to a win. What we need to worry about is the openers batting wise, they are almost batting at a Pakistani level which is a big concern....

 

[Drreddymd]

Massively disappointed with Rahane upto an extent that i have lost faith in him to perform in India.

During the match they showed the second innings average of batsmen in the home season,the openers had 19,20 and Rahane something similar.

Only Kohli and Pujara had averages close to 50 (I think).

Sif was correct from the beginning that rahane is useless in odis, t 20 and in low slow wickets particularly against spin.

I never in my wildest dreams thought he is so useless against spin.

I saw his debut match. He looked worse than tailender in that match but he performed exceptionally overseas and thought that performance was debut nerves but his performances against spin is diabolical as more and more i watch of him in subcontinent.

He has no game against spin. He cannot rotate the strike, looks unsettled when defending and then gets out to soft nothing shots, lbws

 

[Drreddymd]

No place for goalkeepers in cricket

No place for tailenders also in this era of modern cricket particularly when u r playing only 5 batsman and 5 th one is a horrible player at home.

 

[Drreddymd]

No We dont, Okeefe got an unbelievable wicket like Nathan Hauritz got in Mumbai in 2004, he will never see a wicket like that again in his life. Next wicket will be a road, which will be used to demoralize him and at worst we should get away with a draw, otherwise the wisdom and experience of Ashwin/Jadeja may see us through to a win. What we need to worry about is the openers batting wise, they are almost batting at a Pakistani level which is a big concern....

Absolutely. One opener is all or nothing and another is a lazy, casual chaltha hai attitude player who thinks one good test a series is good enough

 

[Saurav]

No place for tailenders also in this era of modern cricket particularly when u r playing only 5 batsman and 5 th one is a horrible player at home.

tailender scored a ton last game and has another in testing situation in WI

ATG Pappu Patel has none

 

[Drreddymd]

tailender scored a ton last game and has another in testing situation in WI

ATG Pappu Patel has none

Ok we will see then how saha performs in the rest of matches

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No We dont, Okeefe got an unbelievable wicket like Nathan Hauritz got in Mumbai in 2004, he will never see a wicket like that again in his life. Next wicket will be a road, which will be used to demoralize him and at worst we should get away with a draw, otherwise the wisdom and experience of Ashwin/Jadeja may see us through to a win. What we need to worry about is the openers batting wise, they are almost batting at a Pakistani level which is a big concern....

Not that hard to play him as a medium pacer on a patta is it?

But it takes mental discipline to cover the lines for his straighter deliveries and be prepared to get beaten if he does turn one viciously.

We didn't do that and so we lost in this test.

Only Kohli, Pujara and Ashwin exhibited the right technique by going forward or back fully. And all of them faltered at one stage (bat behind pad or well left) which led to their dismissals. The others didn't even try properly.

With all being said, O Keefe averages 22 in Aus domestics...took 3/53 against Pakistan in Aus...so I would be a bit more wary of him cos he does know how to pick wickets.

Lyon for all his turn doesn't quite know that.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Indians have never blamed the pitches for loss.

Home or away.

I know bro. But non SC does that all time

 

[Drreddymd]

I know bro. But non SC does that all time

Bhai we will attack our own players and even their houses. Heck there are lot of people in india who question india preparing rank turners and winning games.

Out side of india we know home teams prepare green tracks and players who perform there become superstars and if they fail there we question our team and never said a word about the pitch

 

[Romali_rotti]

Not that hard to play him as a medium pacer on a patta is it?

But it takes mental discipline to cover the lines for his straighter deliveries and be prepared to get beaten if he does turn one viciously.

We didn't do that and so we lost in this test.

Only Kohli, Pujara and Ashwin exhibited the right technique by going forward or back fully. And all of them faltered at one stage (bat behind pad or well left) which led to their dismissals. The others didn't even try properly.

With all being said, O Keefe averages 22 in Aus domestics...took 3/53 against Pakistan in Aus...so I would be a bit more wary of him cos he does know how to pick wickets.

Lyon for all his turn doesn't quite know that.

I dont think you saw the test match, that wicket was turning like crazy, what our spinners did wrong was they were bowling very fast while the aussies were bowling a lot slower... It doesnt matter like I said India would have lost regardless had they bowled good and were chasing a modest total because the wicket was a minefield of a minefield... No big deal we lost a match after 5 years in India, it was coming, so now the next wicket will be a road which will be used to demoralize a kid that is now on a high....

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Bhai we will attack our own players and even their houses. Heck there are lot of people in india who question india preparing rank turners and winning games.

Out side of india we know home teams prepare green tracks and players who perform there become superstars and if they fail there we question our team and never said a word about the pitch

These are bitter truth for sc countries bro.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I dont think you saw the test match, that wicket was turning like crazy, what our spinners did wrong was they were bowling very fast while the aussies were bowling a lot slower... It doesnt matter like I said India would have lost regardless had they bowled good and were chasing a modest total because the wicket was a minefield of a minefield... No big deal we lost a match after 5 years in India, it was coming, so now the next wicket will be a road which will be used to demoralize a kid that is now on a high....

Why would I open a detailed OP for a game I haven't even watched live?

Of course I saw the match fully.

The detailed OP I posted above answers what you ask.

Pitch was turning crazily but we didn't get done by the turn.

It was O keefe's straight and slow spin deliveries that killed us even though he rarely spun anything viciously. I explained every single dismissal of his and the difference between what he did vs Panesar or Herath.

I was talking about this game. Not future games anyways.

 

[Buffet]

3 more tests to go here. Aus winning first tests makes this series interesting otherwise it was becoming pointless to watch any Indian series in India. I think Indians will do much better in next game.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I was talking about this game. Not future games anyways.

Well, I thought you were talking about future games with the below statement:

But we have to adjust for the O Keefe straighter balls.

.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Well, I thought you were talking about future games with the below statement:

I was referring to thread title which a few others are responding to....assuming I imply India will struggle, lose everything, etc, etc.

I am not saying that.

And in turners, yes, we do have to adjust for O Keefe's straighter balls. If we don't cover the line and play like today, we would keep getting lbws. When we covered the line, we played him pretty fine today. Its a matter of mental discipline to do it on this pitch and be prepared to get beaten if some does turn viciously (which it rarely does for O Keefe).

 

[RamLakhan]

No We dont, Okeefe got an unbelievable wicket like Nathan Hauritz got in Mumbai in 2004, he will never see a wicket like that again in his life. Next wicket will be a road, which will be used to demoralize him and at worst we should get away with a draw, otherwise the wisdom and experience of Ashwin/Jadeja may see us through to a win. What we need to worry about is the openers batting wise, they are almost batting at a Pakistani level which is a big concern....

Superb perfect post! Let's hope it happens what you say! If a batsman is dropped certainly it has to be one of the openers! This is being happening for quite some while now. Either Vijay's experience has to be counted or Rahul's potential to be trust, but not both. One of them is getting out invariably in single digits. I think at least 1 in 5 innings both openers should give 75 to 100 runs partnership at least. This is happening even on flat pitches and its bitten now! (which was covered by late order batting & sustained bowling as a unit) We need to get rid of one of them and give chance to Mukund (left hander) heck even Partiv as pure batsman!

 

[Pantani]

While batting was the most catastrophic failure, India were shocking in a lot of ways:

- taking the new ball in first innings and bowling spin to Starc, allowing him to smack a lusty 60 thanks to the hard ball and against spin which he likes

- dropping so many catches in the second innings, particularly Smith who should have been out for 23 not 109

- shocking use of reviews throughout the match

- picking an absolute passenger in Ishant

Rectify those 4 issues and they probably lose by 150 at worst instead of 333. So the point I am making is that while the batting was diabolical, India still gave away around 150 runs through some horrendous captaincy and fielding.

 

[shaz619]

Premature behaviour but it's typical with subcontinent fans when emotions are running high in the moment, this isn't over; India took AUS lightly and will be better prepared in the next game.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Maybe read the OP instead of just the headline.

 

[Pollack]

Not related to topic but I suggest Rahul batting down the order one position above Rahane or one position below depending on match situations.

 

[Pollack]

On topic we didn't bowl properly especially our World class spinners. It shares the blame with batting.

 

[RamLakhan]

No We dont, Okeefe got an unbelievable wicket like Nathan Hauritz got in Mumbai in 2004, he will never see a wicket like that again in his life. Next wicket will be a road, which will be used to demoralize him and at worst we should get away with a draw, otherwise the wisdom and experience of Ashwin/Jadeja may see us through to a win. What we need to worry about is the openers batting wise, they are almost batting at a Pakistani level which is a big concern....

You are right, if a batsman is dropped certainly it has to be one of the openers! This is being happening for quite some while now. Either Vijay's experience has to be counted or Rahul's potential to be trust, but not both. One of them is getting out invariably in single digits. I think at least 1 in 5 innings both openers should give 75 to 100 runs partnership at least. This is happening even on flat pitches and its bitten now finally big time! (which was covered by late order batting & sustained bowling as a unit) We need to get rid of one of them and give chance to Mukund (left hander) heck even Partiv as pure batsman or ask Rahane to open if that makes him comfortable!

 

[RamLakhan]

OP:
It is not about playing the spinners. It is the situation of the match, everyone will look ugly when losing a match (losing a plot actually!) Cricket (or any game) is a also about mind game/psychology. A chess player can make an atrocious move that's not expected of him. Everyone can't act/play the same way always!

Did you observe on thing? India came in as "Hot favorites" for the last T20 World Cup, they were playing at home! What happened in the 1st match? They got burnt alive similar to this match! Then they recovered well, had some really good matches (especially the one against Australia), but they were not adequate enough to go on to win the cup which is a different issue (and nobody complained, the team did good enough)!

Also it is not about a certain pitch! It is not that Indians have not played or not won on these kind of pitches. It is just that these things gets highlighted when we lose, that too when we lose so badly! Australia also lost to South Africa badly recently at their home! It happens sometimes.

On personal level, Laxman looked like God in that epic Kolkota match. He was literally planting his feet in the exact line and depth where it got pitched (both dimensions!) Such magical it was. But even he used to look bad & clueless sometimes when he was not in form. Similarly Dravid had some problems with some spinners at some times.

Cricket is a team game, hence the overall effort of the team lifts an individual and vice versa. Team combinations play an important role and any weak links in the team will bite some time (Thank God we stretched to 19 test matches hiding these loopholes!)

 

[RamLakhan]

Not related to topic but I suggest Rahul batting down the order one position above Rahane or one position below depending on match situations.

Swap their positions! I don't think it will make any difference, at the most it is going give us a positive output! Rahul is anyhow not doing the role of opener (Shielding the new ball - is being getting out to seamers in single digits on flat pitches every alternate match and not coming up with enough big scores expected of an opener) And Rahane is not at all doing the job of No.5 or No.6 (play spinners), if he is so scared of them why not open the innings and play the easier 20 overs when the ball is new and even if spinners bowl at him cannot harm him with grip & turn!

Putting a rookie or comeback man like Mukund may not help things much, we may have to stick with Vijay for a while!

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Before this test no one predicted that Australia would beat India,much less this way.

Just chill,these things happen in cricket.

 

[Varun]

Before this test no one predicted that Australia would beat India,much less this way.

Except me: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-will-do-better-than-4-0-in-this-Indian-tour

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Except me: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-will-do-better-than-4-0-in-this-Indian-tour

Well,good on you then

 

[Messiah]

Good, noone wants arrogant lot like you to be saved. Even the commentators were bragging DURING the match how india would take a huge lead blah blah. turned off the TV just cuz of the annoying commentators. Indian cricket needs to die a slow, painful death so that indians learn some humility. then I dont mind if they rise again

 

[Stallion__]

There was no method or application from Indian batsman. It was mixture of how England and Australia batted in UAE in 2012 and 2014 respectively. They kept playing for turn when only rare ones would spin (like Australia in 2014) and were indecisive about their footwork most of the times (like England in 2012 in UAE).

 

[bleaf27]

As an Indian Fan , I'm not too bothered with this loss . Yeah one of the worst losses we have faced but why there's no need to panic.

1 - India Won 19 test matches in a row - They were overdue to lose one. Esp after playing with England - the competition they have faced until now isn't to the same calbire.
2 - Kohli is a new captain , MSD has been the best captain India has had - him missing in the field and as a captain - expect lower win rates.
3 - Reality check is always needed - Every team is on a high note and then loses and then get's better again. Even if India lose this series which I don't think would be the case but even if it does happen - as a cricketing nation - we do have the people in the ranks who aren't afraid to take smart decisions and kick people out- With IPL and people like Kumble, Ganguly , Dravid on the helm - we will always improve.

So sit back and enjoy - losses like these means changes to come and complacency to be kicked out

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Mods, can you help change the title cos this one seems to create a bit more confusion?

Maybe make the title something like:

"Let's get something very clear - our batting was the biggest culprit in Pune"

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION]

Thanks mods. I can see the changes.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

On topic we didn't bowl properly especially our World class spinners. It shares the blame with batting.

Agreed but point is you are not going to win with ANY spinners if you play for turn and get out to straight balls in an action replay manner.

Ashwin and Jaddu if they did bowl well (and had the catches been taken) would have reduced the margin of defeat from 333 to maybe 200-250.

Tops.

That's the runs our bats should have scored in both innings combined.

 

[coy0607]

what does the Indian batting have to do with Pakistani performances?!?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Kohli's views

Lowest match total for two all-out innings in India. Quickest end to two all-out innings in India. India's fourth-lowest match total. The third-quickest they have taken to be bowled out. If India asked for this pitch, they have been hoisted by their own petard. India's captain Virat Kohli, though, insisted that he had not asked for this pitch, saw nothing wrong with the pitch, and pulled himself and his fellow batsmen up for capitulating for a total of 212 runs in 74 overs.

Asked if he or his team had asked for this pitch at a ground with a reputation for flat hard surfaces, Kohli said: "I don't know. I didn't speak to anyone."

About the pitch itself Kohli said: "I don't think it was any different from the turners that we played on in the past. We just didn't play good cricket. You can ask me any sort of question or any perception about the loss. We know exactly what happened, the mistakes that we made. External perceptions don't matter to us, they have never mattered to us.

"We played good cricket, that's why we won. We played bad cricket, and that's why we lost. That's how simply we look at this defeat. We just want to take the learnings forward, improve and come back stronger in the next game. I can assure you that we are going to come back with more intent for sure, and put Australia under pressure straight from ball one."

Once the pitch was laid out, India had the option of strengthening the batting like they did on a similar pitch in Nagpur against South Africa. Kohli defended the selection. "We wanted to pick up 20 wickets, we did manage to do that," Kohli said. "I mean, not in time. I would say we did make breakthroughs but we could've done it quicker and if you don't grab your chances in the second innings, if you drop five chances of one batsman, then you certainly don't deserve to win. If you get bowled out within 11 runs and lose seven wickets, you don't deserve to win a Test match.

"You can speak about combinations... I'm sure you wouldn't have asked this question had we won the game. The question changes drastically when you win or lose. A lot of things are result-oriented, but not with our team. We focus on what we can do right, and what we need to do right on field, and we don't drift away from that. Our mindset doesn't change with the results."

Kohli said Indian saw the defeat as "no big deal". "It's fine," Kohli said of the mood in the dressing room. "It's just another international game. It's no big deal. It's how you should stay calm and composed when you win, how you shouldn't get overexcited. The same way you react when you lose, something that you take on the chin. We take failures and losses as an opportunity to learn."

The defeat ended India's 19-Test unbeaten streak, and Kohli looked back to their previous defeat for inspiration. "The last time we had a performance like this [in Galle, against Sri Lanka], we had the most outstanding run after that," Kohli said. "I would say that we needed something like this for us to get a reality check and understand what are the things we need to work on and keep persisting with it. Not take anything for granted at any stage, especially at the Test-match level."

Kohli blamed his batsmen for not applying themselves, but defended his bowlers, who were outdone by Australia who had little experience of bowling in such conditions. "The way we batted in the first innings, I think we put ourselves under a lot of pressure to be honest," Kohli said. "Conceding a 160-run lead on that kind of wicket is criminal actually. If we were close enough to their first-innings total, the bowlers' mindset is different in the second innings. The moment you give away 50-60 runs, the game is drifting away already.

"It's very difficult to pull things back from there, even a single run hurts from thereon. And I would say our batsmen put us in that position where it was very difficult for us to come back into the game. Am not blaming the bowlers at all, they tried their level best, someone like Umesh [Yadav] bowling well in the first innings was great to see on a slowish wicket. They bowled in good areas, they put Australia under pressure, they were going well in the first innings and we pulled things back nicely. A few things we can take away from this game but [only] from bowling aspect. Our batting wasn't up to standard, and that's certainly how we shouldn't bat from here onwards.'

When asked what the Australia spinners did right in comparison to India's, Kohli found no flaw with his unit. "I think our spinners bowled really well as well," he said. "I wouldn't say what they did better. As I said, if you don't apply yourself, any bowling attack can look dangerous. It's as simple as that. Even a part-timer can get four wickets if you don't apply yourself. And I certainly would like to think that that was the case with our batting line-up in this game. It rarely happens that four-five batsmen make errors in judgement in both the innings, especially with the way we batted in the last few months. I would say this was our worst batting performance and we need to accept that."

One of the errors was Kohli's, when he shouldered arms to become one of Steve O'Keefe's 12 wickets in the match. This image was the most symbolic of all. Ravindra Jadeja had done this to Steven Smith in Delhi in 2012-13, and to Hashim Amla in Mohali in 2015-16. Now Kohli watched in horror as his off stump was laid flat. Kohli was forthcoming about his mistake.

"It was a judgement error from my side," he said. "I left the ball too early. I should have waited for the ball a little more. You can't say which ball is going to turn or which isn't. You've got to play the line, and I certainly didn't do that. It was my fault."

 

[rollingstoned]

New spinners sometimes do a number on India, Mendis comes to mind. I expect us to improve as the series goes on as we are notorious for being slow starters though i can't understand considering how much cricket we have played recently why rust would ever be an issue. I don't think Karun Nair will make a huge difference, that triple he scored was on a flat road and any improvement on what Rahane is giving us won't be that huge IMO if we keep getting these kind of tracks. Jayant Yadav was a waste of a spot as was Mitch Marsh for Australia.

 

[Hawkeye]

Neighbors need to calm down and chill.

SoK won't be as much of an issue in the next matches. The novelty factor took Ind bats out .

They'll be well prepared now.

 

[Varun]

Neighbors need to calm down and chill.

SoK won't be as much of an issue in the next matches. The novelty factor took Ind bats out .

They'll be well prepared now.

That's what they said about Moeen Ali too.

 

[RamLakhan]

There were few key moments in the match:

1) India couldn't bowl out Australia in the last session of Day 1. If so India could have eased out chasing a total under 200 (in 1st innings)

2) Yes, that's what they did in their 1st innings. They were in a better position at 90 odd for 3 on the 2nd day (though this is not such a great position but still a good position considering the pitch. Australia also had mini collapse here & there) from there they could have gone on to score at least near to 250.

3) In this way (considering both 1 & 2), with just + or - 30 odd runs difference in 1st innings, I think Australia would also have been in some pressure in their 2nd innings knowing that the pitch is difficult (even though they would be comfortable because they know they don't play in the last innings). They would surely have not got so many runs in 2nd innings (more than 1st innings, definitely).

4) This would have left India with a reasonable score in the 4th innings to chase something like 200, 250. I think they would have applied little bit and at least got closer to the target, and lost by 30 to 50 runs if Australians bowled the way they did (under pressure the quality of bowling can also change) Who knows a gutsy chaser like Kohli could have even aimed such target & reached it!

Finally we would not have lost in such a bad way and people would not have ridiculed us so much! (Still would have laughed about 4-0 claims anyways!) There are so many "exponential" variables when playing on such pitches! Things look ugly if you slip a bit!

Its just that such pitches makes you fool when you lose your plot (The situation can reverse exactly opposite if you win that tiny plot).

Just look at that scenario: If Australia were all out for 200 on Day 1 just before 30 minutes. India with 50/1 losing Vijay (Strange Rahul can score fluently sometimes in tough situations!) Then India may have confidently played the next day (as usual they did in so many test matches of late, with the contributions from batsmen till No.9) and stretched the score to 350 or something!

Australia (with their usual pressure in Sub-continent! Let's be frank they are not the Demigods in Subcontinent! We know how brutally they can get beaten here even with much stronger sides against even Bangladesh!) would have succumbed to pressure just like Indian batsmen and chance that they could have bundled out for less than 150 runs and gave India the innings victory!

What's the case then? Warne, Australian media, PP Forum, everyone would have gone furious over India's tailor-made pitch and for using the home advantages! (This I am telling after losing the toss and fielding first! The situation could have been even worse with India batting first).

So let's be real-real. Indians have also won on rank-turners. They know how to bat on spin-tracks. Let's see further.

South Africa once upon a time got out for a paltry score in a ODI match against India in Kenya. To be honest, South Africa had a far superior team compared to India on that day (India had some nobody-men in that match like Sunil Joshi, Vijay Bharadwaj who excelled in that match! Debasis Mohanty & Venktesh Prasad were our pacers!) That doesn't mean that we should laugh at South African team. At the same time we should appreciate the performance of Indian team on that day for utilizing the conditions well! I can also remember India doing similar thing to Australia in a ODI/T20 this time not on spin track but a swinging track! It just happens on some days.

Lets appreciate this Australian team for what they did in this match with all the negativity stacked against them. But Indian team should not be ridiculed to this extent and its definitely not that Indian Batsmen are clueless against spinners and should learn cricket from some inferior bodies! You can say that (poor players of spinners) only if they fail to play spinners on normal tracks!

Playing in front of pads, behind pads, front foot, back foot is not just about technique, but also it has to do with the psyche of the batsman on the given day! Batting is not just about technique. If so, all cricket matches would have happened in the same desired fashion! VVS Laxman looked great on some days, and absolutely poor on some days (with his technique).

On some other pitch or against some other bowler it becomes like you have to play with bat hiding behind the pads saving yourselves, otherwise same experts will tell that you have pads to use why used the bats? It is just that some team had all the luck, all the smartness and everything going their way and the other team got everything against!