Varun
Senior Test Player
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It was awkward in the office this morning.
Why is it awkward when some guy from another continent did the damage? That takes some doing.
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It was awkward in the office this morning.
Why is it awkward when some guy from another continent did the damage? That takes some doing.
Try asking Uncle Jatinder Singh next time he get's a volley of abuse from someone on his way home from the Dog and Duck in Barking.
Somebody should begin a 'Whataboutism Collection Vol. 1' thread and stuff all your posts in there.
IRA
1974 Birmigham pub bombings
21 killed and 182 injured.
1972 Aldeshot bombing
7 killed
1972 Bloody Friday
9 killed 130 injured
1987 Enniskillen
11 killed 63 injured.
Above are just a few examples.
During the NI troubles, there were 3,568 deaths, of which 1,879 were civilian deaths caused by both sides in the conflict.
You need to read up on history a bit.
that was a major conflict with many civilian deaths on both sides, IRA's modus operandi still wasn't to target civilians. also, they just weren't 'catholic terrorists' which is perhaps more to the point, they were terrorists who happened to be catholic.
...er no. Do you know anything about the history of Ireland and why Northern Ireland was separated from the rest of Ireland, and the aim of the IRA?that was a major conflict with many civilian deaths on both sides, IRA's modus operandi still wasn't to target civilians. also, they just weren't 'catholic terrorists' which is perhaps more to the point, they were terrorists who happened to be catholic.
Shocking failure
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">FBI 'warned MI5 in January that the Manchester bomber was planning an attack on Britain' <a href="https://t.co/QDC4F2gVK2">https://t.co/QDC4F2gVK2</a></p>— Daily Mail U.K. (@DailyMailUK) <a href="https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/868733340005916673">28 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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It starts looking bad when you combine the FBI's warning with the local mosque's multiple warnings.
Not to mention his traveling.
But still it's hard on these agencies.
They receive countless warnings and do thwart many potential attacks.
Insp O'Reilly, who left community policing in 2012, warned that swingeing cuts to Greater Manchester Police’s funding were "cutting away at the muscle" of the force and said savings were leaving officers feeling "undervalued".
"I have worked in inner city Manchester for 15 years," Insp O'Reilly told Mrs May at a Police Federation conference in 2015.
"I felt passionate about what I was doing but in 2010 I had to leave. I couldn't take it any more because the changes that have been imposed have caused community policing to collapse.
"Intelligence has dried up. There aren't local officers, they don't know what's happening. They're all reactive, there's no proactive policing locally. That is the reality ma'am."
He added: "Neighbourhood policing is critical to dealing with terrorism. We run the risk here of letting communities down, putting officers at risk and ultimately risking national security and I would ask you to seriously consider the budget and the level of cuts over the next five years.”
What do you think the 1987 Enniskillen bombing was?
More to the point, the miscarriages of justice which happened to the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were both for pub bombings.
I was woken up by the 1974 M62 bombing in my bed in Gomersal.
I'm the first to agree that IS are monsters who target innocent people. But while I've plenty of time for the likes of Bobby Sands, the IRA often targeted civilians.
Not children, but civilians.
Also the IRA and Sinn Fein are not simple nationalist movements, which is why they are almost universally despised in the Republic of Ireland. The name Sinn Fein symbolised liberation a century ago in Dublin, but now is associated with terrorism and gangsterism.
British Government and Media are complicit in covering this up
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">3 massive stories on links between UK terror & Saudi/Libya which, re Manchester, would bring down the govt if reported properly by media. <a href="https://t.co/cYwFJINHYe">pic.twitter.com/cYwFJINHYe</a></p>— Mark Curtis (@markcurtis30) <a href="https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/870329595052130309">1 June 2017</a></blockquote>
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...er no. Do you know anything about the history of Ireland and why Northern Ireland was separated from the rest of Ireland, and the aim of the IRA?
yes of course, they were waging a war over statehood, religious links are there indeed but tenuous
yeah there was a religious divide present there but still, they were fighting over land. it wasn't some kind of religious war. at least not when the IRA was involved (you speak more of its origins)Religion was absolutely critical to that conflict ever since Cromwell imported Scottish Protestants to NI and gave them the Catholics' land. Ireland was a threat to Britain because it was Catholic and could have been used as a base by France and Spain. Catholics were systematically discriminated against and the RUC had a Catholic ban.
The older brother of the Manchester Arena bomber has fled the country as he seeks to avoid giving evidence to the inquiry.
A friend of the bomber was also arrested as he tried to leave the UK on Monday, after claiming he was suffering from depression and should be granted anonymity.
Salman Abedi blew himself up at Manchester Arena in May 2017 killing 22 people and a second brother Hashem, is serving life in prison for helping build the bomb.
Ismail Abedi, their older brother, had asked the inquiry to give an undertaking that he would not be prosecuted using anything he might tell the hearing but it was refused.
As the inquiry begins to look at Salman Abedi's radicalisation, Paul Greaney QC, for the inquiry, said their legal team had done "all it can to obtain evidence" from Abedi's family.
However, his father, Ramadan, and mother, Samia, are in Libya and have refused to cooperate with inquiry or provide any statements or evidence "of any kind", Mr Greaney said.
Ismail Abedi usually lives in Britain, but it was "highly regrettable he has also refused to give a statement or cooperate with the inquiry in any meaningful way".
A section 21 notice has been delivered requiring him to turn up at the inquiry on Thursday but Mr Greaney added: "We understand he is not currently in the country and there is no indication about when he will return.
"Ismail Abedi clearly has important evidence to give the inquiry and we urge him to make contact with the inquiry, either directly or indirectly through legal representatives," he added.
"As he surely must understand, if he does not do so, the public may infer that he has something to hide, and so may you."
Sir John Saunders, the inquiry chairman, urged people not to make public statements that might discourage him from attending.
Another friend, Ahmed Taghdi, was arrested as he tried to leave the country on Monday.
The 29-year-old, who helped buy and store a car used to clear out the bomb factory in North Manchester, is refusing to give evidence, saying he is suffering from depression and should be given anonymity for his own protection.
He was an associate of a jailed ISIS recruiter called Abdalraouf Abdallah who is also refusing to answer any questions from the inquiry on the grounds that he might incriminate himself.
Taghdi had also been served with a section 21 notice and the inquiry had been granted an enforcement notice to ensure his attendance, at the High Court on Friday.
After his arrest, Taghdi claimed he was planning to return on Wednesday, and he had a return ticket for that date, the inquiry was told.
Family members have said that Ismail Abedi contacted his parents and got them to take his younger brothers back to Libya when he was concerned they had dropped out of college.
However, the inquiry has also heard that he had extremist material on his mobile phone when he was stopped returning to Britain in 2015.
After the attack, a disc drive was found at his flat in Manchester which included images of burned bodies and one depicting the black flag adopted by ISIS and the words: "I pledge allegiance."
Ismail was also connected by forensic evidence to an item later found in the Nissan Micra that his brothers used to transport and store the chemicals that made the bomb.
Besides his family, the inquiry intends to call friends and associates and examine Abedi's use of the internet and social media and his attendance at school, college, university and mosques.
Abedi's younger brother, Hashem Abedi, was convicted of assisting in the preparation and planning of the attack and the inquiry has obtained a written statement from him.
In it he confesses to his role in the bombing and set out his motivations, the inquiry has heard.
"You will no doubt want to take this into account when considering Salman Abedi's motivation and radicalisation," Mr Greaney said.
"Some of the matters can be verified by other evidence," he added.
"The statement is a self-serving document which amounts to pro-Islamic State propaganda and needs to be treated with some caution.
"In the light of what he says, you may conclude that the arena attack was influenced, at least, by the distorted ideology of the so-called Islamic State."
The inquiry will also look at whether Abedi should have been referred to the government's Prevent de-radicalisation strategy.
It will explore how the policy worked in 2017, what problems there may have been and what has been done since to improve the system.
Without naming the suspect in the killing of Sir David Amess, who was referred to Prevent, Sir John said the strategy was "very much the focus of public attention"
He said there was another inquiry into how it operates and whether it can be improved and he did not want to "tread on the toes of that inquiry".
The inquiry continues.