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Migration on the US Mexico border

Gilly

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Trump is trying to shut down economic migrants from entering the US without authority.

Most countries have some sort of system to prevent migrants from entering, I remember sailing from France to the UK and seeing migrants trying to board trucks trying to get into the UK.

Is it the right of a country to control who enters and who cant.
 
Of course it's every nations right to choose which people enter their lands. We know from colonisation the people living in the land which is now Australia had no choice so America is not under any real threat from Mexicans. Prob over 15 million already live in the US working in low paid jobs as illegals. Trump also wants to evict those who have been living in the US for decades.

There are two issues here.

1. The fake news, scaremongering and hate speech Trump has spouted against migrants. Including caging people like animals. Trump is a liar and racist.

2. America is known for invasions, interfering and looting of other nations. Seems a bit hypocritical to single out Mexicans as some threat to America's security.
 
Of course it's every nations right to choose which people enter their lands. We know from colonisation the people living in the land which is now Australia had no choice so America is not under any real threat from Mexicans. Prob over 15 million already live in the US working in low paid jobs as illegals. Trump also wants to evict those who have been living in the US for decades.

There are two issues here.

1. The fake news, scaremongering and hate speech Trump has spouted against migrants. Including caging people like animals. Trump is a liar and racist.

2. America is known for invasions, interfering and looting of other nations. Seems a bit hypocritical to single out Mexicans as some threat to America's security.

The migrants photographed in cages were taken before Trump became President. I have been asking posters for links to Trumps hate speech but no one has ever given me a link, they just stop posting or change the subject.
 
The migrants photographed in cages were taken before Trump became President. I have been asking posters for links to Trumps hate speech but no one has ever given me a link, they just stop posting or change the subject.

I would advise not to follow right wing press, most of it is full of lies. Here's the BBC which is supposed to be in the middle.

Trump migrant separation policy: Children 'in cages' in Texas

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44518942

Some of his hate speech will be moderated out on this forum but how many would you like?

Here's one to start.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-outcry-over-trumps-********-countries-remark

If you try to defend this you are no better than him. If you can defend it and prove it's not hate speech, you should be the POTUS.
 
Why ask such a loaded question ? Of course it is but as usual Gilly our resident Aussie Trump apologist frames the debate in a dishonest way.

Drug trafficking mainly occurs at LEGAL ports of entry. Most cases of illegal immigration is from visa overstayers, not from encroachment at the southern border. Trump's hate monument AKA the "big, beautiful wall" at the southern border will not make a difference to either of these issues.

If the OP even followed US politics in a substantive way, he'd know last year the Democrats agreed to a BIPARTISAN proposal - $25 BILLION for the wall in exchange for DACA. Why didn't it pass ? Trump got cucked by Breitbart, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh who are defiantly against any path to citizenship, and kiboshed the deal !

Trump's White House, specifically white nationalist Stephen Miller, also wanted dramatic cuts to LEGAL immigration. That's the real agenda, so enough of this goddamn lie that this is just about illegal immigration.
 
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I would advise not to follow right wing press, most of it is full of lies. Here's the BBC which is supposed to be in the middle.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44518942

Some of his hate speech will be moderated out on this forum but how many would you like?

Here's one to start.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-outcry-over-trumps-********-countries-remark

If you try to defend this you are no better than him. If you can defend it and prove it's not hate speech, you should be the POTUS.

So what you are saying is that prior to Trump being president these cages did not exist and it was only after Trump became president they started to put people in cages. So none of this happened when Obama was president. I just want to be clear on this issue, before Trump was president these cages were not in use, this is something that Trump introduced, this is what you believe.
 
So what you are saying is that prior to Trump being president these cages did not exist and it was only after Trump became president they started to put people in cages. So none of this happened when Obama was president. I just want to be clear on this issue, before Trump was president these cages were not in use, this is something that Trump introduced, this is what you believe.

Trump made it worse by his hate speech and continued the policy. Btw I never like Obama either but he is no longer in office.

I'm glad you have now seen the light and accepted he is racist and has used hate speech?
 
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/s35

This is the vote I'm referring too. Democrats agreed to $25bn for the wall in return for a path to citizenship for Dreamers. It was a bipartisan bill co-sponsored by EIGHT Republican Senators including Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins.

Trump demagogued against it, and the vote died in the Senate. NOW he can't even get $5bn from Congress and thanks to his shutdown caused federal workers to be without paychecks for 35 days.
 
Why ask such a loaded question ? Of course it is but as usual Gilly our resident Aussie Trump apologist frames the debate in a dishonest way.

Drug trafficking mainly occurs at LEGAL ports of entry. Most cases of illegal immigration is from visa overstayers, not from encroachment at the southern border. Trump's hate monument AKA the "big, beautiful wall" at the southern border will not make a difference to either of these issues.

If the OP even followed US politics in a substantive way, he'd know last year the Democrats agreed to a BIPARTISAN proposal - $25 BILLION for the wall in exchange for DACA. Why didn't it pass ? Trump got cucked by Breitbart, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh who are defiantly against any path to citizenship, and kiboshed the deal !

Trump's White House, specifically white nationalist Stephen Miller, also wanted dramatic cuts to LEGAL immigration. That's the real agenda, so enough of this goddamn lie that this is just about illegal immigration.


Dam and here I was thinking you were going to give us a list of your 10 best walls.
 
Trump made it worse by his hate speech and continued the policy. Btw I never like Obama either but he is no longer in office.

I'm glad you have now seen the light and accepted he is racist and has used hate speech?

I have yet to see any hate speech from Trump.
 
[MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION]

Please explain this as you're the only one on this forum who understands Trump.

trump1.jpg

Are Mexicans Muslims bringing in superpowered prayer rugs which makes straw hair catch fire?
 
I will address the first point, explain how I framed the debate in a dishonest way?.

If we cant get past that then all else is just dribble.
You ask such a laughably loaded question as whether a country has the right to control its borders.

You know that is not the objection to Trump's proposals.

Now are you going to answer point by point or continue playing dodgeball ? Did the Democrats agree in 2018 to 25bn for the border wall - yes or no ?
 
Did you read the link in regards to what he said about African nations? If I said the same about Australia it would be ok for you and other Aussies?

So if someone said that America was a shothile country that would be hate speech?.
 
So if someone said that America was a shothile country that would be hate speech?.

In a certain context possibly yes. In this context Trump said ALL African nations are a ..... but I guess this makes you support him even more? :warne
 
In a certain context possibly yes. In this context Trump said ALL African nations are a ..... but I guess this makes you support him even more? :warne

So in your mind if someone says that western countries are shothiles then you would declare that as hate speech?.
 
So in your mind if someone says that western countries are shothiles then you would declare that as hate speech?.

Yes if they have said other things towards white westners as Trump has towards blacks.

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”"

In 1989, Trump took out ads in New York newspapers urging the death penalty for five black and Latino teenagers accused of raping a white woman in Central Park; he argued they were guilty as late as October 2016, more than 10 years after DNA evidence had exonerated them.

In 1989, on NBC, Trump said: “I think sometimes a black may think they don’t have an advantage or this and that. I’ve said on one occasion, even about myself, if I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I really believe they do have an actual advantage.”

In June 2017, Trump said 15,000 recent immigrants from Haiti “all have AIDS” and that 40,000 Nigerians, once seeing the United States, would never “go back to their huts” in Africa.

He often casts heavily black American cities as dystopian war zones. In a 2016 debate with Hillary Clinton, Trump said, “Our inner cities, African Americans, Hispanics are living in hell because it’s so dangerous. You walk down the street, you get shot.” Trump also said to black voters: “You’re living in poverty; your schools are no good; you have no jobs.”

He often casts heavily black American cities as dystopian war zones. In a 2016 debate with Hillary Clinton, Trump said, “Our inner cities, African Americans, Hispanics are living in hell because it’s so dangerous. You walk down the street, you get shot.” Trump also said to black voters: “You’re living in poverty; your schools are no good; you have no jobs.”

He called some of those who marched alongside white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., last August “very fine people.”

In the 1990s, Trump took out advertisements alleging that the “Mohawk Indian record of criminal activity is well documented.” At the time, he was fighting competition for his casino business.

Trump once referred to a Hispanic Miss Universe as “Miss Housekeeping.”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html

Just a few. Please explain each of the above. Why you believe it's not racist
 
[MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION]

Please explain this as you're the only one on this forum who understands Trump.

View attachment 87699

Are Mexicans Muslims bringing in superpowered prayer rugs which makes straw hair catch fire?

OK I'll try to explain but its pretty simple, A border rancher said he found some prayer rugs, I guess being a rancher he was out on his property and found some prayer rugs, possibly just some rugs but not being there or seeing the rugs I dont know how accurate this is.
 
Why ask such a loaded question ? Of course it is but as usual Gilly our resident Aussie Trump apologist frames the debate in a dishonest way.

Drug trafficking mainly occurs at LEGAL ports of entry. Most cases of illegal immigration is from visa overstayers, not from encroachment at the southern border. Trump's hate monument AKA the "big, beautiful wall" at the southern border will not make a difference to either of these issues.

If the OP even followed US politics in a substantive way, he'd know last year the Democrats agreed to a BIPARTISAN proposal - $25 BILLION for the wall in exchange for DACA. Why didn't it pass ? Trump got cucked by Breitbart, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh who are defiantly against any path to citizenship, and kiboshed the deal !

Trump's White House, specifically white nationalist Stephen Miller, also wanted dramatic cuts to LEGAL immigration. That's the real agenda, so enough of this goddamn lie that this is just about illegal immigration.

THIS. Excellent points in your post and well put!
 
Yes if they have said other things towards white westners as Trump has towards blacks.

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”"

This is odd, tell us why Trump would pay a black man to count his money when he hated it. Why would he hire a black person to count his money if he hated it, can you see it makes no sense.

Anyway it is only heresay and it makes no sense.

You are just posting allegations, give me a link to where Trump said something racist, not where other people have said that he said she said.
 
OK I'll try to explain but its pretty simple, A border rancher said he found some prayer rugs, I guess being a rancher he was out on his property and found some prayer rugs, possibly just some rugs but not being there or seeing the rugs I dont know how accurate this is.

He is suggesting Muslims 'terrorists' are crossing the border too. Strange you cant see this.

This is odd, tell us why Trump would pay a black man to count his money when he hated it. Why would he hire a black person to count his money if he hated it, can you see it makes no sense.

Anyway it is only heresay and it makes no sense.

You are just posting allegations, give me a link to where Trump said something racist, not where other people have said that he said she said.

He should file for a lawsuit against these allegations then. Now please explain the other quotes.
 
He is suggesting Muslims 'terrorists' are crossing the border too. Strange you cant see this.



He should file for a lawsuit against these allegations then. Now please explain the other quotes.

Do you associate prayer rugs with muslim terrorists, you tell me what the border rancher found and what he should have said.

You have only offered alleged quotes, nothing that is factual.

Offer something that Trump said.
 
This is odd, tell us why Trump would pay a black man to count his money when he hated it. Why would he hire a black person to count his money if he hated it, can you see it makes no sense.

Anyway it is only heresay and it makes no sense.

You are just posting allegations, give me a link to where Trump said something racist, not where other people have said that he said she said.
I gave you specifics way back in October but like in this thread you ran like a coward.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Squirrel-Hill-synagogue&p=9967236#post9967236
 
Do you associate prayer rugs with muslim terrorists, you tell me what the border rancher found and what he should have said.

You have only offered alleged quotes, nothing that is factual.

Offer something that Trump said.

No Trump does which is why he wrote his stupid tweet.

I have offered you many as Makhor has too but you are in denial or love, which is it?
 
No Trump does which is why he wrote his stupid tweet.

I have offered you many as Makhor has too but you are in denial or love, which is it?

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] there's even more examples you missed to point out to our red MAGA hat wearing friend from Down Under.

Remember the Central Park Five. Five black and Latino kids were WRONGLY jailed for the rape of a jogger in NYC in 1989. In 2002 DNA evidence exonerated them. Yet Trump who called for their execution, CONTINUED to claim they were guilty. What kind of monster does such a thing ?

In the 1970s, the Nixon Justice Department (no great friend of the civil rights movement) sued the Trump Organisation for housing discrimination. Trump had REFUSED to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available.

Yet his apologists still ask where's the evidence of racism. Talk about wilful blindness.
 
No Trump does which is why he wrote his stupid tweet.

I have offered you many as Makhor has too but you are in denial or love, which is it?

I have Makhor on ignore.

As to Trump I've yet to see a direct quote from him that says he is racist. Some people think that if a white person talks or mentions a black person then that makes them racist and I do see a fair bit of that.
 
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] there's even more examples you missed to point out to our red MAGA hat wearing friend from Down Under.

Remember the Central Park Five. Five black and Latino kids were WRONGLY jailed for the rape of a jogger in NYC in 1989. In 2002 DNA evidence exonerated them. Yet Trump who called for their execution, CONTINUED to claim they were guilty. What kind of monster does such a thing ?

In the 1970s, the Nixon Justice Department (no great friend of the civil rights movement) sued the Trump Organisation for housing discrimination. Trump had REFUSED to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available.

Yet his apologists still ask where's the evidence of racism. Talk about wilful blindness.

I would go as far as to suggest those who support Trump all the time are just like him, dumb and racist.

I have Makhor on ignore.

As to Trump I've yet to see a direct quote from him that says he is racist. Some people think that if a white person talks or mentions a black person then that makes them racist and I do see a fair bit of that.

I wonder why.

The quotes are there, lets see if anyone else agrees with you on here there is no racism in his words. You are in denial and we know your support for Israeli racism too so no surprise.
 
I would go as far as to suggest those who support Trump all the time are just like him, dumb and racist.



I wonder why.

The quotes are there, lets see if anyone else agrees with you on here there is no racism in his words. You are in denial and we know your support for Israeli racism too so no surprise.

They are other peoples quotes, put up direct quotes from Trump that are racist.

Trump derangement syndrome is alive and well.
 
OK I'll try to explain but its pretty simple, A border rancher said he found some prayer rugs, I guess being a rancher he was out on his property and found some prayer rugs, possibly just some rugs but not being there or seeing the rugs I dont know how accurate this is.

President Donald Trump on Friday posted an extremely dubious tweet alleging people from Muslim-majority countries are crossing the border with bad intentions, and leaving prayer rugs behind.

Citing a report that hinged on one anonymous source, Trump tweeted: “Border rancher: ‘We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal.’ Washington Examiner.”

“People coming across the Southern Border from many countries, some of which would be a big surprise,” he added.

That was indeed the headline of a Washington Examiner article published on Wednesday, but the story itself presents no evidence for its central claim beyond one anonymous account — and even if it were true, prayer rugs themselves pose no threat to national security.

It’s clear Trump was using the story to stoke fears about Muslims and shore up support for his proposed wall along the southern border, something he has said he is proud to shut down the government over. The partial shutdown began on December 22, and Trump hasn’t budged from the $5.7 billion for the wall he is demanding.

The flimsy basis of the Examiner’s story
The Washington Examiner’s piece is centered on a single, anonymous rancher who presents no evidence for the claim that prayer rugs are being found along the border.

“There’s a lot of people coming in not just from Mexico,” the woman is quoted as saying in the piece. “People, the general public, just don’t get the terrorist threats of that. That’s what’s really scary. You don’t know what’s coming across. We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal. It’s not just Mexican nationals that are coming across.”

If prayer rugs were indeed found, you might expect the article to include a photo of one of them. But it doesn’t. Instead, the rancher — who admits in a video accompanying the piece that she’s never seen “Middle Easterners” crossing the border — is photographed holding a bottle.

In response to widespread criticism of the article, Susan Ferrechio, the Washington Examiner’s chief congressional correspondent, simply criticized the way others pointed out its flimsy sourcing.

Left unexplained by the article is why Muslims who presumably traveled through Mexico to cross the border would carry their prayer rugs with them for hundreds or thousands of miles, just to leave them behind in Texas.

There’s little evidence would-be terrorists are trying to enter the country through the southern border
Data from Customs and Border Protection (CBP) indicates that people from Muslim-majority countries are apprehended crossing the southern border between ports of entry at vanishingly small rates.

In 2017, for instance, six Syrians, 10 Jordanians, and 14 Saudis were apprehended trying to cross the border — compared to 16,000 Guatemalans.

RELATED

DHS Secretary Nielsen pushes string of misleading claims in Twitter thread about border “threat”
And of course, just because a person is from the Middle East or a Muslim who uses a prayer rug does not mean that they’re a terrorist.

A 2017 State Department report found that there is “no credible evidence terrorist groups sent operatives via Mexico into the United States.” A recent Cato Institute study found that there were zero cases of people being injured or killed on US soil by people who entered the country illegally from 1975 through the end of 2017.

Conservatives have a long history of making unfounded claims about prayer rugs
Conservatives have a storied history of using dubious stories about prayer rugs to stoke fears about Muslims entering the country through the southern border.

In July 2014, Breitbart published a piece with the screaming headline, “MUSLIM PRAYER RUG FOUND ON ARIZONA BORDER BY INDEPENDENT AMERICAN SECURITY CONTRACTORS.” The piece was accompanied with a photo of the purported “prayer rug.” But there was just one problem — close examination revealed that the object in question was in fact an Adidas soccer jersey.

At the 2014 Values Voters Summit a couple months later, then-Texas Lieutenant Governor David Dewhurst claimed that “prayer rugs have recently been found on the Texas side of the border in the brush.” But Dewhurst presented no evidence for his claim, which Politifact ultimately rated “Pants on Fire.”

Desperate times, desperate tweets
Last month, Trump decided to shut down the government instead of supporting bipartisan legislation that would’ve kept it open, but not funded his border wall.

Nearly a month later, polling indicates that a majority of Americans don’t like the shutdown and are blaming Trump for it. Separate polling indicates that Trump’s wall remains as unpopular as ever, despite the president’s efforts to convince people that the situation along the border is a crisis.

So far, Trump has shown little willingness to negotiate and has been trying to tweet his way out of it. Tweets like the prayer rug one suggest that Trump — who has a long history of making baseless, fear-mongering claims about Muslims — is resorting to increasingly desperate measures.


--https://www.vox.com/2019/1/18/18188476/trump-muslim-prayer-rugs-tweet-border

WAS TRUMP’S PRAYER RUGS TWEET REALLY FROM ‘SICARIO 2’?


President Donald Trump often tweets about his proposed border wall with anti-immigrant talking points from right-wing figures like Sean Hannity, but a recent tweet raised eyebrows from movie critics across the country. Did Trump unknowingly pull a plot point from Sicario: Day of the Soldado to bolster his administration’s fabricated narrative about Muslim terrorists infiltrating the United States across the southern border with Mexico?

“Border rancher: We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal.” Washington Examiner People coming across the Southern Border from many countries, some of which would be a big surprise,” Trump posted to his Twitter feed Friday morning, one in a series of tweets about the border, a migrant caravan and Republican solidarity with his government shutdown. One simply reads “AMERICA FIRST!”

Trump’s tweet cites conservative tabloid the Washington Examiner, which ran an article Wednesday with the prayer rugs quote.

“Chinese, Germans, Russians, a lot of Middle Easterners,” a rancher, granted anonymity “for fear of retaliation by cartels,” told the Examiner. “There’s a lot of people coming in, from not just Mexico, and the general public just don’t get the terrorist facts of that. And that’s what’s really scary, is that you don’t know what’s coming across. We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal. It’s not just Mexican nationals coming over.”

“Have you seen some of these people?” the Examiner’s Anna Giaritelli can be heard asking off camera.

“No, I’ve never run into any,” she says. “I’ve never seen any Middle Easterners. I’ve seen prayer rugs out here.”

Giaritelli was previously a spokesperson for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, or FAIR, an organization that works to decrease both illegal and legal immigration. The Southern Poverty Law Center has repeatedly linked the group to white nationalists.

The single anonymous claim made by the rancher fits a long-running right-wing narrative, with little evidence to support its claim that violent militant Muslims use the southern border to sneak into the United States. A major component of this narrative is the alleged Islamic prayer rugs found along the border.

This was also a plot point in 2018’s Sicario: Day of the Soldado, a sequel to the 2015 drug-cartel thriller Sicario. Pundits and movie critics were quick to cite the movie as one potential source for the otherwise evidence-less claim:

“Dude staking his entire presidency on the mistaken belief that Sicario: Day of the Soldado was a documentary,” IndieWire film critic David Ehrlich tweeted.

However, Sicario: Day of the Soldado didn’t invent the idea of Muslim prayer rugs found along the border. David Dewhurst, former lieutenant governor of Texas, made a similar false claim in 2014. The concept has been a recurring meme at right-wing outlets like Breitbart, though no evidence has ever been provided beyond anonymous claims (often second or third hand), similar to the Examiner story.

The power of the border Islamic prayer rug myth depends on the racist presumption that any Muslim engaged in prayer is presumptively a terrorist. Nor do the claims explain why a Muslim crossing the border from Mexico would leave behind a prayer rug, which would otherwise see daily use.

Trump administration officials, including Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen, have repeatedly exaggerated or fabricated statistics about terrorists coming over the border between the United States and Mexico, such as White House press secretary Sarah Sanders’s claim that Customs and Border Protection have caught nearly 4,000 suspected terrorists. In data provided to Congress, the agency said only 41 people from the Terrorist Screening Database were encountered along the border from October 1, 2017, to March 31, 2018; 35 of the 41 were U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents.

In its 2017 report, the State Department concluded that “there was no credible evidence indicating that international terrorist groups have established bases in Mexico, worked with Mexican drug cartels, or sent operatives via Mexico into the United States.”

Perhaps this whole saga will somehow come up in the plot for Sicario 3. Now Hollywood just has to figure out a way to cast Benicio del Toro in a tweet.


https://www.newsweek.com/trump-prayer-rug-tweet-border-wall-twitter-tweets-mexico-muslim-1297865



Sometime, well most of the times, especially any topic related to Mr. T, it is always OKAY to use your cerebral cortex, ain't no immigrant try to take over your cerebral cortex if you were to actually utilize it for better use.
 
I gave Gilly a detailed post after the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting rebutting his laughable claim that Trump has no history of racism.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Squirrel-Hill-synagogue&p=9967236#post9967236

Of course he never replied. And he accuses others from running away from arguments.

Most racist do that, when present with facts, they either yell at you, ask you to leave that country, or turn in to Kelly Conway, trying to dodge the question.
 
Cerebral cortex, use it brah.

Sorry mate I missed the bit where Trump said it was a muslim terrorist. It wouldent matter what Trump said, if he said black you would say white, if he said day you would say night, if he said big you would say little.

Trump derangement syndrome.
 
Most racist do that, when present with facts, they either yell at you, ask you to leave that country, or turn in to Kelly Conway, trying to dodge the question.

hahaha I have to laugh at this, how many times on this site have i been told to leave Australia.
 
Most racist do that, when present with facts, they either yell at you, ask you to leave that country, or turn in to Kelly Conway, trying to dodge the question.

He's put me on ignore so I take it [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] needs a safe space.

Like most Trump supporters, zero response to simple questions and facts when you pick up on their lies.
 
Sorry mate I missed the bit where Trump said it was a muslim terrorist. It wouldent matter what Trump said, if he said black you would say white, if he said day you would say night, if he said big you would say little.

Trump derangement syndrome.

When T get caught being cute ignorant, you go, he is my boy, and let me join in.

Brah, use that cerebral cortex.

Not every Trump supporter is a racist but every racist support Trump for a reason.

Now go on be a Kelly Conway
 
I have Makhor on ignore.

As to Trump I've yet to see a direct quote from him that says he is racist. Some people think that if a white person talks or mentions a black person then that makes them racist and I do see a fair bit of that.

Not much point in starting a debate if you aren't prepared to debate with someone who asks hard questions. What was the point of the thread then?
 
He's put me on ignore so I take it [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] needs a safe space.

Like most Trump supporters, zero response to simple questions and facts when you pick up on their lies.

Count yourself lucky
 
Gilly seems to have had his dials realigned again. The exact same posting style as ever, but with a different object of impassioned defence. First it was Aussie cricket, then it was Israel, and now it is Trump.
 
21 Savage about to be deported, what people think of that.
 

Biden’s new border rule shows progressives where they really stand​


President Joe Biden’s announcement on Tuesday of an executive action that would allow him to temporarily shut down the US-Mexico border to asylum seekers appears intended to shore up voters ahead of this November’s election, as increasing numbers of Americans view immigration as their top issue.

But it placed the president once again at odds with the progessive wing of his party, a new point of contention after many vehemently disgreed with him on his support for Israel amid its war against Hamas in Gaza, which has led to almost 35,000 Palestinian deaths, many of them women and children.

The new action would allow for Biden to halt the processing of new asylum claims if more than 2,500 people cross the southern border in one day and would be dropped if crossings fell below 1,500 a day.

Biden’s order is essentially the shards of a bipartisan immigration deal which died in Congress earlier this year after Donald Trump put pressure on Republicans to back out of it. Even then, progressives had a difficult time swallowing that measure, with New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez telling The Independent that “we are, in a lot of ways, contributing to an even worsening border crisis with this bill.”

There was little reassurance before Tuesday’s announcement.

“I’ll have to read the text of it, but I'm certainly concerned about any enforcement, executive orders,” Ocasio-Cortez told The Independent on Monday.

In recent months, Ocasio-Cortez has had to balance supporting Biden while he has occasionally taken steps that have frustrated progressives. As the co-author of the Green New Deal, she appeared with him for an Earth Day celebration touting his record on the environment even after he approved the Willow Project, a major oil drilling site in Alaska.

Progressives now have to come to grips with the fact that Biden is planning to severely restrict immigration, which polling shows Americans consider a major problem.

But progressives, particularly Hispanic Democrats, fear that focusing solely on enforcement moves the pendulum too far - and plays into the hands of Republicans. That’s a far cry from a decade ago when Democrats and Republicans talked about tying border security to a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

“Now we're at a place where instead of having Republicans have to come to the table and compromise on immigrant rights, we're basically giving the right wing some of the things that they want without delivering for our communities,” Texas Representative Greg Casar, the whip of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, told The Independent.

Similarly, Senator Alex Padilla of California, a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, expressed concern that provisions in Biden’s action was becoming the Democratic default line on immigration.

“This should not be the starting point in the next round of negotiations,” he told The Independent on Monday.

For the past two years, Biden has offered numerous olive branches to progressive Democrats after they chose both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren in the 2020 primary over him. To show that he was serious about having them in his coalition, Biden enacted massive student loan forgiveness, even after the Supreme Court blocked his efforts; passed the most important climate legislation in US history; and expanded the Child Tax Credit to slash child poverty.

But progressives may find themselves taking more hits as the campaign season goes on. Traditionally, candidates of both parties tend to move more toward the center as a means of appealing to moderate and swing voters - though Trump seems to be in no mood to appeal to anyone other than his most faithful supporters.

And despite the fact that public opinion has turned on Israel, Biden has shown little willingness to shift course in his ardent support.

When Sanders lost the 2020 Democratic presidential primary, progressives realized the majority of the party remained moderate. Now, they are coming to grips with the fact much of the country has moved away from them on immigration, which makes it more difficult for them to influence Biden on the border.

 

US-Mexico border arrests are expected to drop 30% in July to a new low for Biden’s presidency​


United States-Mexico border arrests have plummeted about 30% in July to a new low for Joe Biden’s presidency, U.S. authorities said, raising prospects that a temporary ban on asylum may be lifted soon.

The U.S. Border Patrol is expected to arrest migrants about 57,000 times during the month, down from 83,536 arrests in June, the previous low mark of Biden’s presidency, according to two U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials who spoke to The Associated Press on Wednesday on the condition of anonymity because the figures had not been released publicly. It would be the lowest monthly tally since 40,507 arrests in September 2020, when the coronavirus pandemic slowed movement across borders in many countries, including to the United States.

Even before Biden’s Democratic administration invoked powers to suspend asylum on June 5, border arrests had fallen by about half from a record-high of 250,000 in December amid increased Mexican enforcement. Since June 5, arrests have fallen by half again, helping the White House fend off attacks by former President Donald Trump and other Republicans that Democrats, including Vice President Kamala Harris, have allowed the border to spiral out of control.

The asylum halt would end if daily arrests drop below 1,500 over a seven-day average, a scenario that Customs and Border Protection officials are preparing for with arrests now hovering 1,600 to 1,700 day. The halt would be reinstated if arrests reach a seven-day daily average of 2,500, a threshold of “emergency border circumstances” that was immediately met when the restrictions took effect in June. Immigrant advocacy groups are challenging the asylum measures in court.

Under the halt, U.S. authorities deny a chance at asylum to anyone who crosses the border illegally. Unaccompanied children are exempt, and others may seek asylum-like forms of protection that allow them to stay in the United States with a higher bar and fewer benefits, like the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

Asked to comment on July numbers, the Department of Homeland Security on Wednesday referred to a statement last week that arrests had dropped 55% since asylum restrictions took effect.

San Diego was again the busiest corridor for illegal crossings in July, followed by Tucson, Arizona, an official said.

The biggest declines have been nationalities that are easiest to deport, including Mexicans, but people from other countries are also showing up less as other travel restrictions take hold, officials said. Chinese migration appears to have been slowed by Ecuador’s new visa requirements and more U.S. deportations to China.

 
US border migrant crossings fall for fifth month in a row

The number of unlawful crossings by migrants at the US southern border has dropped for the fifth consecutive month, according to official data.

US Border Patrol agents apprehended around 56,000 migrants along the border in July - the lowest recorded since September 2020, according to figures obtained by the BBC’s partner CBS News.

The numbers are down significantly from December, when around 250,000 migrants were caught crossing the border.

President Joe Biden's administration has credited the decrease to recent actions by him to tackle illegal immigration into the US, an election-year political vulnerability for the Democrats.


 

Hidden tunnel on US-Mexico border to be sealed​


A hidden cross-border tunnel used to smuggle migrants and contraband between the US and Mexico will be sealed, Mexican border officials have said.

Running between Ciudad Juarez in Mexico and El Paso in Texas, which sit next to each other on either side of the border, the 300m tunnel was concealed in a storm sewer system and only discovered last week - despite official estimates it took at least a year to build.

Investigators are now looking into whether local officials knew of its construction.

Security has been ramped up on both sides of the border ahead of the inauguration of Donald Trump, who has vowed to launch mass deportations of illegal immigrants once in office.

The tunnel had been reinforced with wooden beams to prevent collapses and was equipped with lighting and ventilation.

Such a structure could have taken at least a year to build, army officials said.

The Mexican Attorney General's Office has been tasked with investigating whether local officials had been complicit in the construction of the tunnel, General Jose Lemus, commander of Ciudad Juarez's military garrison, told Mexican media.

The tunnel was discovered on 10 January, after US border patrol agents removed a metal plate covering the entry hole to the tunnel and then alerted their Mexican counterparts to its existence.

The flow of migrants from Mexico in the US has long overshadowed relations between the two neighbours and became a defining issue of the 2024 US presidential election race that culminated in Trump's victory last year.

Raids to detain and deport migrants living in the US without permission could begin as early as Tuesday - the day after Trump officially returns to the White House - according to US media reports.

Under US diplomatic pressure, Mexico has been conducting its largest ever migrant crackdown, bussing and flying non-Mexican migrants to the country's south, far from the US border.

But Trump campaigned on a promise to seal the US-Mexico border and his threat to impose 25% tariffs was seen as an attempt to force Mexico into doing more to stop undocumented migrants from reaching the southern border of the US.

In response, the recently-elected Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum has said she will ask the US take action to stop the flow of weapons being smuggled from the US into Mexico.

 
Illegal immigration should be stopped. Puts strain on a country's economy.

One of the biggest illegal migration group in United States are the Indians --> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2ld7r4432o.

Why Indians are risking it all to chase the American Dream​

In October, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) sent a chartered flight carrying Indian nationals back home, marking a growing trend in deportations to India.

This was no ordinary flight - it was one of multiple large-scale “removal flights” carried out this year, each typically carrying more than 100 passengers. The flights were returning groups of Indian migrants who "did not establish a legal basis to remain in the US".

According to US officials, the latest flight carrying adult men and women was routed to Punjab, close to many deportees' places of origin. No precise breakdown of hometowns was provided.

In the US fiscal year 2024 which ended in September, more than 1,000 Indian nationals had been repatriated by charter and commercial flights, according to Royce Bernstein Murray, assistant secretary at the US Department of Homeland Security.

“That has been part of a steady increase in removals from the US of Indian nationals over the past few years, which corresponds with a general increase in encounters that we have seen with Indian nationals in the last few years as well,” Ms Murray told a media briefing. (Encounters refer to instances where non-citizens are stopped by US authorities while attempting to cross the country’s borders with Mexico or Canada.)

As the US ramps up repatriations of Indian nationals, concerns grow about how President-elect Donald Trump's immigration policies will affect them. Trump has already promised the biggest deportation of migrants in history.

Since October 2020, US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials have detained nearly 170,000 Indian migrants attempting unauthorised crossings at both the northern and southern land borders.

“Though smaller than the numbers from Latin America and the Caribbean, Indian nationals represent the largest group of migrants from outside the Western Hemisphere encountered by the CBP in the past four years,” say Gil Guerra and Sneha Puri, immigration analysts at Niskanen Center, a Washington-based think tank.

As of 2022, an estimated 725,000 undocumented Indian immigrants were in the US, making them the third-largest group after those from Mexico and El Salvador, according to new data from the Pew Research Center. Unauthorised immigrants in all make up 3% of US’s total population and 22% of the foreign-born population.

Looking at the data, Mr Guerra and Ms Puri have identified notable trends in the spike in Indians attempting illegal border crossings.

For one, the migrants are not from the lowest economic strata. But they cannot secure tourist or student visas to the US, often due to lower education or English proficiency.

Instead, they rely on agencies charging up to $100,000 (£79,000), sometimes using long and arduous routes designed to dodge border controls. To afford this, many sell farms or take out loans. Not surprisingly, data from the US immigration courts in 2024 reveals that the majority of Indian migrants were male, aged 18-34.

Second, Canada on the northern border has become a more accessible entry point for Indians, with a visitor visa processing time of 76 days (compared to up to a year for a US visa in India).

The Swanton Sector - covering the states of Vermont and counties in New York and New Hampshire - has experienced a sudden surge in encounters with Indian nationals since early this year, peaking at 2,715 in June, the researchers found.

Earlier, most irregular Indian migrants entered the Americas through the busier southern border with Mexico via El Salvador or Nicaragua, both of which facilitated migration. Until November last year, Indian nationals enjoyed visa-free travel to El Salvador.

“The US-Canada border is also longer and less guarded than the US-Mexico border. And while it is not necessarily safer, criminal groups do not have the same presence there as they do along the route from South and Central America,” Mr Guerra and Ms Puri say.

Thirdly, much of the migration appears to originate from the Sikh-dominated Indian state of Punjab and neighbouring Haryana, which has traditionally seen people migrating overseas. The other source of origin is Gujarat, the home state of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Punjab, which accounts for a large share of irregular Indian migrants, is facing economic hardships, including high unemployment, farming distress and a looming drug crisis.

Migration has also long been common among Punjabis, with rural youth still eager to move abroad.

A recent study of 120 respondents in Punjab by Navjot Kaur, Gaganpreet Kaur and Lavjit Kaur found that 56% emigrated between ages 18-28, often after secondary education. Many funded their move through non-institutional loans, later sending remittances to their families.

Then there has been a rise in tensions over the separatist Khalistan movement, which seeks to establish an independent homeland for Sikhs. “This has caused fear from some Sikhs in India about being unfairly targeted by authorities or politicians. These fears may also provide a credible basis for claims of persecution that allows them to seek asylum, whether or not true,” says Ms Puri.

But pinning down the exact triggers for migration is challenging.

“While motivations vary, economic opportunity remains the primary driver, reinforced by social networks and a sense of pride in having family members 'settled' in the US,” says Ms Puri.

Fourth, researchers found a shift in the family demographics of Indian nationals at the borders.

More families are trying to cross the border. In 2021, single adults were overwhelmingly detained at both borders. Now, family units make up 16-18% of the detentions at both borders.

This has sometimes led to tragic consequences. In January 2022, an Indian family of four - part of a group of 11 people from Gujarat - froze to death just 12m (39ft) from the border in Canada while attempting to enter the US.

Pablo Bose, a migration and urban studies scholar at the University of Vermont, says Indians are trying to cross into the US in larger numbers because of more economic opportunities and “more ability to enter the informal economies in the US cities”, especially the large ones like New York or Boston.

“From everything I know and interviews I have conducted, most of the Indians are not staying in the more rural locations like Vermont or upstate New York but rather heading to the cities as soon as they can,” Mr Bose told the BBC. There, he says, they are entering mostly informal jobs like domestic labour and restaurant work.

Things are likely to become more difficult soon. Veteran immigration official Tom Homan, who will be in charge of the country's borders following Trump's inauguration in January, has said that the northern border with Canada is a priority because illegal migration in the area is a “huge national security issue”.

What happens next is unclear. “It remains to be seen if Canada would impose similar policies to prevent people migrating into the US from its borders. If that happens, we can expect a decline in detentions of Indians nationals at the border,” says Ms Puri.

Whatever the case, the dreams driving thousands of desperate Indians to seek a better life in the US are unlikely to fade, even as the road ahead becomes more perilous.
 
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