Minority Day: Those who convert others by force do not understand Islamic history: PM Imran Khan

[Abdullah719]

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Monday said there was no precedent in Islamic history for forcefully converting others, and those who do so "know neither the history of Islam, nor their religion, the Quran or Sunnah."

The premier made the remarks while addressing an event around the National Minority Day hosted at the Aiwan-e-Sadr in Islamabad.

The premier said that Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) life was a road map for people to follow till the day of judgement. He explained that the Prophet himself had given minorities religious freedom and protected their places of worship, "because the Quran orders that there be no compulsion in religion".

"How can we then take it into our own hands to forcefully convert someone to Islam — either by marrying [non-Muslim] women [...] or on gunpoint or to [by threatening to] kill someone because of their religion?" he asked.

"All these things are un-Islamic. If God hadn't given his messengers the power to impose their beliefs on someone, who are we [to do so]?" he asked, explaining that the messengers' duty was only to spread the word of God.

Riasat-i-Madina
The premier said that since coming to power, he had said that the Riasat-i Madina was the only model for Pakistan, which had been created in the name of Islam.

Imran shared that Allama Iqbal had said that when a Muslim rises, they aspire to this model (the model of the state of Madina), and when they fall, they deviate from this model.

"This is why I want this model to be studied in the country. What was the Riasat-i-Madina? We are trying that universities teach courses on the Riasat-i-Madina," he said.

According to Radio Pakistan, Prime Minister Imran also said that though the government was merely implementing the law against previous leaders, they were raising a hue and cry.

Addressing the ceremony, President Dr Arif Alvi also reiterated that the ideas of the Riasat-i-Madina be brought to Pakistan.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1496888/m...rce-do-not-understand-islamic-history-pm-says

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

He's going to get a lot of flake from both left and right for this statement.

 

[RameezRambo_Fan]

He has a better example...it's called the Indus Valley.

For over 9000 years, our land (the Indus basin) hosted various peoples, thoughts, ideas and religions.

That's something this land has always been famous for...long before any "Riasat-e-Madina" was formed.

He should be using that as well. It serves both the left and right and it's actually the truth.

 

[fanofcricket4life]

So he is just as clueless as he looks.

 

[RameezRambo_Fan]

So he is just as clueless as he looks.

He's a far better statesman than your genocide supporting PM who thinks airplanes were invented 50,000 years ago by "ancient hindus".

 

[fanofcricket4life]

He's a far better statesman than your genocide supporting PM who thinks airplanes were invented 50,000 years ago by "ancient hindus".

Can you back the garbage you just posted?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He's going to get a lot of flake from both left and right for this statement.

Not sure teaching the Riasat-i-Madina in universities is the right way to go. He might mean well, but you tend to get religious scholars who take everything too literally so they will tell you that to follow the Prophet's (PBUH) example you should be brushing your teeth with a miswak stick and trimming so many inches from your moustache.

 

[Major]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

He is trying to get majority of pakistanis to relate.

There is a segment of Pakistanis that have been brainwashed to believe converting minorities is a good deed.

 

[Syed1]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

How Islam safeguarded rights of minorities.. The address was in Urdu still the point seems to have been missed by a massive margin.

 

[SakunaPataka]

He has a better example...it's called the Indus Valley.

For over 9000 years, our land (the Indus basin) hosted various peoples, thoughts, ideas and religions.

That's something this land has always been famous for...long before any "Riasat-e-Madina" was formed.

He should be using that as well. It serves both the left and right and it's actually the truth.

How did that ancient non-islamic civilization end up as 98% Islamic ? What is the narrative that most Pakistanis believe in ?

 

[Loralai]

Lets hope his government will enact legislation to protect the rights of minority communities and remove those laws which blatantly target minorities for no reason.

 

[Waseem]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

Sir salute to your wisdom really

I don't even know why I am explaining this, we aren't 10 year old kids here but I can't resist.

We are living in Muslim majority country and millions of MUSLIMS need to be educated about minorities rights.

Millions of MUSLIMS need to be educated and made aware of wrong practices linked to ISLAM that result in mistreatment.

97% of the population need to be educated what they can RELATE to which is Islam, if you justify using Islamic values and examples they will really understand.

 

[Major]

Sir salute to your wisdom really

I don't even know why I am explaining this, we aren't 10 year old kids here but I can't resist.

We are living in Muslim majority country and millions of MUSLIMS need to be educated about minorities rights.

Millions of MUSLIMS need to be educated and made aware of wrong practices linked to ISLAM that result in mistreatment.

97% of the population need to be educated what they can RELATE to which is Islam, if you justify using Islamic values and examples they will really understand.

millions of humans need to be educated about minorities and different culture.

Stop looking at everyone from religion, or stop self praising your own religion if you want to help minorities.

At the end of the day this who act is ironic

 

[Dominant]

Brilliant speech by Imran Khan. Heartening to see a leader actually giving a dam about minorities. Unlike our own deli, who goes into hibernation when minority’s issues arise.

Like seriously has he ever brought the fire conditions of muslims, christians and backward classes.

 

[Tiger96]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

Lol agree, Think the speech was more inclined about appealing to the majority ( Muslims) regarding how great Islam is , how peaceful Islam is, how fair Islamic system is and less about the minorities themselves.

 

[IMMY69]

Lol agree, Think the speech was more inclined about appealing to the majority ( Muslims) regarding how great Islam is , how peaceful Islam is, how fair Islamic system is and less about the minorities themselves.

Sarcasm?

 

[Vegitto1]

Lol agree, Think the speech was more inclined about appealing to the majority ( Muslims) regarding how great Islam is , how peaceful Islam is, how fair Islamic system is and less about the minorities themselves.

Muslims live their lives according to the teachings of Islam.

If a small minority in Pakistan is giving the impression that Islam allows forceful conversion of minorities then it needs to be refuted.

This is exactly what PM attempted to do here. He talked about Islam and how minorities and non-Muslims should be treated according to our religious teachings.

He didn’t talk about Islam and what the inheritance law is under it because that would be off topic.

 

[Abdullah719]

millions of humans need to be educated about minorities and different culture.

Stop looking at everyone from religion, or stop self praising your own religion if you want to help minorities.

At the end of the day this who act is ironic

What do you propose he should have spoken about, which people could relate to?

 

[Badsha]

Not sure teaching the Riasat-i-Madina in universities is the right way to go. He might mean well, but you tend to get religious scholars who take everything too literally so they will tell you that to follow the Prophet's (PBUH) example you should be brushing your teeth with a miswak stick and trimming so many inches from your moustache.

He only uses that as an example for socialism.

 

[Badsha]

Calls it minority day, ends up spending the whole day talking about Islam.

Yeah its minority day so he should have used a minority language like pahari right?

What a dumb post

 

[Mamoon]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

 

[Asim_khan]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

Thank you Chowkidar Shri Mamoon ji for making your customary appearance to parrot the RSS line on Islam.

 

[Slog]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

Islam spread much faster and across more of subcontinent during British colonial era than during the great Muslim Mughal empire so not everything is linear.

 

[AdamM97]

Islam spread much faster and across more of subcontinent during British colonial era than during the great Muslim Mughal empire so not everything is linear.

True. I know many Punjabis and Kashmiris who claim that their great-great grandparents were Hindus or Sikhs who converted to Islam in the 19th century during the British Raj.

 

[BaankeJi]

Well said Imran Khan. Hope people understand this.

 

[KB]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

Such a pithy statement hardly does justice to the complex nature of conversion in South Asia. Four points need to be made here and I am relying mainly on the work of the historian Richard Eaton.

First, that there were instances of forced conversion is not to be denied. But it dubious indeed to argue that the majority that converted did so under the force of the Islamic sword. We should remember that the the regions on the fringes of political power during Muslim rule witnessed the greatest conversion to Islam and not the upper Gangetic Plain, where political and military force was at its most potent.

Secondly and more importantly we need to question exactly what conversion to Islam in South Asia means. In the words of anthropologist Clifford Geertz, writing in the Indonesian context, "Islamic conversion is not as a rule, sudden, total, overwhelming illumination but a slow turning to toward a new light." In South Asia, we can identify many examples. It was as late as the nineteenth century in Bengal that many Muslims no longer referred to God as ‘Sri Sri Iswar’ and adopted Muslim surnames. Richard Eaton has indicated that “it was as early as the fifteenth century, Muslim names began to appear among Jat tribes associated with Baba Farid’s shrine, but they did not become dominant among those tribes until the early eighteenth, indicating a very slow and apparently unconscious process of Islamization.”

Thirdly, in the case of western Punjab and eastern Bengal, Eaton has that that to begin with, pastoralists “had been only partially incorporated into a Hindu socio-religious world at the time of their earliest contact with Muslims.” Peasantisation (that is transition to settled agriculture) and Islamisation went hand in hand in both areas, but whereas in eastern Bengal the agents of Islamisation were forest clearing developers, in Punjab the Sufis played a more prominent role. In his words, “Islamization in eastern Bengal had been launched and sustained by hundreds of humble, thatched mosques established by forest-clearing developers, in the Punjab this role was played by large, state-supported shrine complexes that had been built over the grave sites of renowned Sufi shaikhs.”

Fourthly, we should note - as Slog points to in post 24 - that the process of Islamisation certainly accelerated in the modern period. It is in this period that holy men become more prominent. The work of influential teachers is complemented by the spread of institutions such as madrassas. Knowledge became more readily available through expansion of print. In India the Quran was translated into Urdu in the early nineteenth century. Then there is the increasing connections facilitated by more frequent travel. Of particular note is the pilgrimage to Mecca, of which an increasing number partook in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and which the research indicates deepened Islamic knowledge and raised standards of Islamic practice. Finally, there is the impact of the movements of religious revival and reform, within both Islam and Hinduism, particularly in the nineteenth century that was prompted in part by the colonial challenge. The effect of such movements was to draw much sharper distinctions between the religious traditions.


 

[DeadlyYorker]

Such a pithy statement hardly does justice to the complex nature of conversion in South Asia. Four points need to be made here and I am relying mainly on the work of the historian Richard Eaton.

First, that there were instances of forced conversion is not to be denied. But it dubious indeed to argue that the majority that converted did so under the force of the Islamic sword. We should remember that the the regions on the fringes of political power during Muslim rule witnessed the greatest conversion to Islam and not the upper Gangetic Plain, where political and military force was at its most potent.

Secondly and more importantly we need to question exactly what conversion to Islam in South Asia means. In the words of anthropologist Clifford Geertz, writing in the Indonesian context, "Islamic conversion is not as a rule, sudden, total, overwhelming illumination but a slow turning to toward a new light." In South Asia, we can identify many examples. It was as late as the nineteenth century in Bengal that many Muslims no longer referred to God as ‘Sri Sri Iswar’ and adopted Muslim surnames. Richard Eaton has indicated that “it was as early as the fifteenth century, Muslim names began to appear among Jat tribes associated with Baba Farid’s shrine, but they did not become dominant among those tribes until the early eighteenth, indicating a very slow and apparently unconscious process of Islamization.”

Thirdly, in the case of western Punjab and eastern Bengal, Eaton has that that to begin with, pastoralists “had been only partially incorporated into a Hindu socio-religious world at the time of their earliest contact with Muslims.” Peasantisation (that is transition to settled agriculture) and Islamisation went hand in hand in both areas, but whereas in eastern Bengal the agents of Islamisation were forest clearing developers, in Punjab the Sufis played a more prominent role. In his words, “Islamization in eastern Bengal had been launched and sustained by hundreds of humble, thatched mosques established by forest-clearing developers, in the Punjab this role was played by large, state-supported shrine complexes that had been built over the grave sites of renowned Sufi shaikhs.”

Fourthly, we should note - as Slog points to in post 24 - that the process of Islamisation certainly accelerated in the modern period. It is in this period that holy men become more prominent. The work of influential teachers is complemented by the spread of institutions such as madrassas. Knowledge became more readily available through expansion of print. In India the Quran was translated into Urdu in the early nineteenth century. Then there is the increasing connections facilitated by more frequent travel. Of particular note is the pilgrimage to Mecca, of which an increasing number partook in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and which the research indicates deepened Islamic knowledge and raised standards of Islamic practice. Finally, there is the impact of the movements of religious revival and reform, within both Islam and Hinduism, particularly in the nineteenth century that was prompted in part by the colonial challenge. The effect of such movements was to draw much sharper distinctions between the religious traditions.


What load of apple,beating around the bush...most conversions were done on base of "accept islam or die".

No wonder mass conversions have become extict in modern age.

Only reason islam is spreading now is uncontrolled breeding/inbreeding.take example of indian muslims being at hardly 9% of total population in 1947 is now at 16-17% only due to being able to take multiple wives and keep breading,on average a muslim has more than 3 child where i live,its shrinking though as more and more youngones are getting educated and starting to prefer only 1-2 children

 

[topspin]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

So you would expect Muslim countries to sit back in a world of full imperialist motives? - the norm back then was you had to conquer to avoid getting conquered i.e. attack was the best form of defence.

It's an unfair statement to come up with "Islam spread by the sword". No one is forcing you to adhere to Islam and you are free to reject it as you wish. I say that as I have noticed you have rejected several Sahih Hadiths in the past for e.g. you don't believe in Imam Mahdi and return of Isa (AS).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Islam was spread by the might of the sword as well as Sufism who radical ideologists now detest, event though, they probably wouldn’t be Muslims today without the former’s struggles.

No amount of mental gymnastics and feeble attempts to rationalize the spread of Islam in the subcontinent will change history.

Why would anybody need to resort to mental gymnastics? Swords yesterday and bombs today have always been in use to bend society to the will of those who wish to rule in a certain fashion. Would you describe western justification for NATO as mental gymnastics?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Wrong

Islam was spread by the might of sword.

Anyone denying it needs to learn Islamic history better. After Mecca was conquered, the prophet wrote letters to other heads of states and gave them three options:

1. Convert to Islam
OR
2. Pay Non-Muslim tax
OR
3. Prepare for war

 

[Tubs]

I agree with [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] that Islam, much like Christianity, was spread by the sword- especially in Pakistan. However, I am very glad that IK is bringing attention to minority rights, despite the fact that his justification may be flawed. Minorities deserve rights because they are human, Islam is irrelevant here.

 

[USaqaf]

A very good explanation of this topic is by the Iranian author Zarinkoubin in his superb book "2 Centuries of Silence" on the 200 years after the Islamic conquest of Persia.
In the 200 years he laments and also rejoices exposing the dichotomy of the situation.

On one hand the gratefulness of a people who were exposed to Islam and on the other the utter contempt towards the destruction of their civilization at the hands of the Arabs (who were seen as barbaric and uncivilized)

I've always marveled at the very simple fact that those who were converted by force never really go back.
After all the occupying forces dont stay forever and even till recently as 1947 or the Moplah Rebellions in the 20s in Kerala , the forcefully converted didn't reconvert to Hinduism and today are the bulwark of the Muslim community in Kerala.

Go anywhere and the story is the same, they see something in Islam.

My opinion is that for every 1 barbaric Islamic invader there were 9 generals or Viziers who were rational and moderate who tempered the craziness and helped the non-Muslims. Otherwise Muslim lands would be completely devoid of non-Muslims which is obviously not the case today.

 

[SakunaPataka]

A very good explanation of this topic is by the Iranian author Zarinkoubin in his superb book "2 Centuries of Silence" on the 200 years after the Islamic conquest of Persia.
In the 200 years he laments and also rejoices exposing the dichotomy of the situation.

On one hand the gratefulness of a people who were exposed to Islam and on the other the utter contempt towards the destruction of their civilization at the hands of the Arabs (who were seen as barbaric and uncivilized)

I've always marveled at the very simple fact that those who were converted by force never really go back.
After all the occupying forces dont stay forever and even till recently as 1947 or the Moplah Rebellions in the 20s in Kerala , the forcefully converted didn't reconvert to Hinduism and today are the bulwark of the Muslim community in Kerala.

Go anywhere and the story is the same, they see something in Islam.

One of the reasons for that is Hinduism did not accept them back. Those who converted were usually looked down upon and this was a big mistake on part of the Hindu community which prooved to be highly counterproductive. Sad state of affairs.

My opinion is that for every 1 barbaric Islamic invader there were 9 generals or Viziers who were rational and moderate who tempered the craziness and helped the non-Muslims. Otherwise Muslim lands would be completely devoid of non-Muslims which is obviously not the case today.1

Who are these rational generals?