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Moeen Ali - Performance Watch

Bullet Drive said:
Btw he isn't a full spinner in my view and this is a one off performance. I doubt he will repeat this. He is not good enough.. Yet.

And he is not a test class spinner either. He is definitely a sidekick but today came good.

Not saying he is bad, but he's not top bowler.

And he is MUCH better then Hafeez though as a test bowler.

Will never see Hafeez bowl like Moeen today.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a really good post based on realities.

That's pretty much him so far. We'll see how he develops as a spinner in the coming years, if he develops at all.
 
He looks much better than a part time spinner. He even has a doosra or the one that just goes straight.
 
Moeen video "my best moment in an England shirt"

<iframe frameborder="0" width="698" height="503" scrolling="no" id="molvideoplayer" title="MailOnline Embed Player" src="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1109281.html" ></iframe>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...Cook-s-men-win-time-year.html#v-3706774732001

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...y-Test-Alistair-Cook-s-men-win-time-year.html

"Moeen Ali inspires England to victory in third Test as Alastair Cook's men win for the first time in a year"
 
Bullet Drive said:
Btw he isn't a full spinner in my view and this is a one off performance. I doubt he will repeat this. He is not good enough.. Yet.

And he is not a test class spinner either. He is definitely a sidekick but today came good.

Not saying he is bad, but he's not top bowler.

And he is MUCH better then Hafeez though as a test bowler.

Will never see Hafeez bowl like Moeen today.
Click to expand...

Mohammed Hafeez is a much better bowler than Moeen Ali
118 wickets in odis at an average of 35 is nothing to be laughed at
 
Not sure why people are comparing Ali to Mohammed Hafeez.

Hafeez is just a part time spinner who after 36 Test matches has only 35 wickets and is usually used as third spin option after Ajmal / Rehman etc

Moeen in 5 test matches has 18 wickets and is being used as a front line spinner

There is a massive gulf in class.
 
Geoffrey Boycott :-

The biggest bonus of all was Moeen Ali taking six wickets in the second innings. Here is a kid the selectors have pinned their faith on even though they were not sure he was good enough. Thankfully for them he has turned out to be the real deal.

England can only go forward if they have a matchwinning spinner. We have got plenty of seamers but we need a spinner who can win the match when the ball turns late on in the game.

It does not matter if one or two of his wickets were lucky because it is better to be lucky than good. If you are lucky and good, then the sky is the limit.

He has a good action, an excellent straight on ball and he can spin it. He has all the attributes but what he has to do now is add better control to his game. He still bowls a number of easy, hittable four-balls. But the more he bowls the more he will improve. The other aspect I liked from this match was that captain and bowler were in sync with one another. The captain must have confidence in his bowlers. To me Cook never had that confidence in Monty Panesar. But he seems to have found confidence in Moeen and is quick to throw the ball to him very early on in the second innings. That will transmit itself to Moeen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...he-series-with-or-without-James-Anderson.html
 
I think people are taking his performance for-granted believing anyone can perform like that on a 5th day's pitch which isn't true. England might high struggled to finish off India's innings if they didn't have Moin.
 
Ridiculous how Moeen continues to be criticized by some posters. This lad nearly saved his team from a hopeless situation with a hundred against Sri Lanka and has now taken a six-fer against an immensely talented Indian batting line up. This too in his first five tests. Hafeez comparisons are laughable at this point.
 
chacha kashmiri said:
Mohammed Hafeez is a much better bowler than Moeen Ali
118 wickets in odis at an average of 35 is nothing to be laughed at
Click to expand...

Mohammad Hafeez is not even close to specialist spinners in limited format as well. That guy is averaging 35, not 25 in bowling performance. That's not compliment. He has never been good batsman, but with 35 average of bowling performance suits to part-time spinner rather than specialist spinners.
 
Anfield said:
I think people are taking his performance for-granted believing anyone can perform like that on a 5th day's pitch which isn't true. England might high struggled to finish off India's innings if they didn't have Moin.
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No bud.

Its because some are judging Ali as a proper spinner and seeing if he is gonna make it.

Does he have flight, dip or turn (like a proper spinner)? Or does he have accuracy and ability to bowl fast spinners like Monty and Jaddu (who themselves aren't effective wicket takers on a few pitches)?

These are the things that give us an indication of how its going to be.

Ali did well and deserves the success.

But long term success is based on certain skills.
 
Mamoon said:
Hafeez is quite underrated on this forum.
Click to expand...

Arguably the best LOI all-rounder around but people are talking 'bout tests.

sensible-indian-fan said:
No bud.

Its because some are judging Ali as a proper spinner and seeing if he is gonna make it.

Does he have flight, dip or turn (like a proper spinner)? Or does he have accuracy and ability to bowl fast spinners like Monty and Jaddu (who themselves aren't effective wicket takers on a few pitches)?

These are the things that give us an indication of how its going to be.

Ali did well and deserves the success.

But long term success is based on certain skills.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen, he has all that but has a tendency to go off the radar once in a while which is why he's been expensive in previous innings. He'll learn to keep it tight as time goes on though. His speed is also up by a few miles since his debut test.

MalikMohsin said:
Mohammad Hafeez is not even close to specialist spinners in limited format as well. That guy is averaging 35, not 25 in bowling performance. That's not compliment. He has never been good batsman, but with 35 average of bowling performance suits to part-time spinner rather than specialist spinners.
Click to expand...

Economy of almost under 4 is amazing in this era. Definitely not a part-timer. South Africa, Australia, England and New Zealand would all pick him as a specialist spinner if they could.
 
The spin breakdown of today's cricket looks a little like this:

Tier one: Ajmal, Herath
Tier two: Ashwin, Abdur, Babar, Perera, Narine, Badree, Jadeja
Tier three: Tahir, Mendis, Lyon, Kiwi "spinners"

^ This is only grouping by tier so it doesn't mean that Herath is as good as Ajmal or that Jadeja and Ashwin are equals.

Moeen is currently in the third tier but has the potential to be one of the best in the second tier.
 
Bilal7 said:
The spin breakdown of today's cricket looks a little like this:

Tier one: Ajmal, Herath
Tier two: Ashwin, Abdur, Babar, Perera, Narine, Badree, Jadeja
Tier three: Tahir, Mendis, Lyon, Kiwi "spinners"

^ This is only grouping by tier so it doesn't mean that Herath is as good as Ajmal or that Jadeja and Ashwin are equals.

Moeen is currently in the third tier but has the potential to be one of the best in the second tier.
Click to expand...
babar has virtually no feats while Lyon is in Tier 2. And there needs to be a tier 4 for NZ 'spinners' :ajmal. Other than that, agreed.
 
Lyon in Tier 3?

What?

Lyon is one of the best spinners outside SC in the world today.

Maybe due to lack of competition but he is one of the best. Tier 3 is crazy for him.
 
I'd put Jadeja in tier 3, at least in Tests. He's garbage particularly in this format.

Ashwin is better.
 
Haz95 said:
babar has virtually no feats while Lyon is in Tier 2. And there needs to be a tier 4 for NZ 'spinners' :ajmal. Other than that, agreed.
Click to expand...

Was based more on ability and not limited to tests. Lyon just doesn't look like someone who'll win you a game, he's the guy who'll keep it tight and let others do the damage.

Agree on tier 4 though. :mv
 
Ma sha allah i am very happy for him. a good player with good temperament. kudos to AJMAL bhai for helping him out with his bowling. i hope we get to see another great batsmen like AMLA in the making. he has the temperament and he just needs to play more and more cricket. he has been doing good lately in the test arena and its first time ENG won because of his bowling which is huge for them. i hope he master's the art and does well in the future.
 
Bilal7 said:
The spin breakdown of today's cricket looks a little like this:

Tier one: Ajmal, Herath
Tier two: Ashwin, Abdur, Babar, Perera, Narine, Badree, Jadeja
Tier three: Tahir, Mendis, Lyon, Kiwi "spinners"

^ This is only grouping by tier so it doesn't mean that Herath is as good as Ajmal or that Jadeja and Ashwin are equals.

Moeen is currently in the third tier but has the potential to be one of the best in the second tier.
Click to expand...

Herath not good enough to be in tier one from what I've have seen.
Moeen lot better then Jadeja. I think Jadeja and Herath should be in tier 3.

I cannot think of anyone else that is too good other then Ajmal. Sad in a way.
Ashwin may be close to any tier 1.
 
Probably not Ajmal tier but Herath is definitely a notch above every other spinner in the world.
 
Do you think some of Ali's detractors are mad at him because they feel somehow he has betrayed them by playing for England and not playing for Pakistan (his dad is Pakistani)?
 
MarkCooper said:
Do you think some of Ali's detractors are mad at him because they feel somehow he has betrayed them by playing for England and not playing for Pakistan (his dad is Pakistani)?
Click to expand...

On the contrary, most here support him because of his pakistani origin
 
Moeen is English. He should play for England.

Anyway he has better chance in England as it is a more meritocratic and less corrupt culture.
 
There is a lot of talk about the relationship between Moeen and Ajmal and the whole master and apprentice thing as they play cricket together.

But I think that if Ajmal works hard, one day he can be as good as Moeen.
 
Nice trolling.

To be honest though Moeen the apprentice is ahead of the master right now. Ajmal debuted at 31. Moeen has a massive head start on him as spinners do tend to mature late.
 
MarkCooper said:
There is a lot of talk about the relationship between Moeen and Ajmal and the whole master and apprentice thing as they play cricket together.

But I think that if Ajmal works hard, one day he can be as good as Moeen.
Click to expand...

but ajmal can't bat so Sir Moen will always be ahead
 
Moeen bhai will never be half the bowler Ajmal is. Head-start does not matter when good enough, you are not. :yoda
 
MarkCooper said:
There is a lot of talk about the relationship between Moeen and Ajmal and the whole master and apprentice thing as they play cricket together.

But I think that if Ajmal works hard, one day he can be as good as Moeen.
Click to expand...

In growing a beard I hope you are alluding to
 
s28 said:
Nice trolling.

To be honest though Moeen the apprentice is ahead of the master right now. Ajmal debuted at 31. Moeen has a massive head start on him as spinners do tend to mature late.
Click to expand...

Moen won't last in the team till the age of 31.....his honeymoon period will be over soon
 
honeymoon period over ?

he has taken 15 wickets in 3 tests against India (mainly top order wickets)

how awesome will he be against batsmen less proficient against spin on more spin friendly sub-continent wickets say ?

must say I expect Pakistan's brittle batting line up to crumble against him on a first day pitch let alone a fifth day one
 
MarkCooper said:
There is a lot of talk about the relationship between Moeen and Ajmal and the whole master and apprentice thing as they play cricket together.

But I think that if Ajmal works hard, one day he can be as good as Moeen.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate. Joke of the day
 
Coach Peter Moores :-

“Moeen is in the side as a batter and a very rapidly emerging spin bowler,” Moore said. “I think Mo had a bit of a turning point before the Lord’s Test. Testament to some of the feedback that he got - I think Ian Bell was quite important in that - you can get feedback about the pace and lines that are difficult for batsmen to play.
“Belly is a fantastic player of spin so he fed back to one of his team-mates, ‘Well, actually, I find that really difficult or that pace is quite nice for me.’ That’s what good teams should do, while Bell was batting in the nets, and then Mo decides what to do. You improve because you talk and work with people.”

“His run-rate came down and he created some pressure,” he said. “Test cricket is about how rapidly people grow in it and he’s grown very quickly as a bowler. Hopefully, that carries on. He’s a very sensible lad, he knows he’s got to keep doing a lot of work.
“He does two things that are essential for a top-flight spinner - he attacks both edges. He gets great drift and then turns the ball. So he spins the ball hard. Without those two things, it is very difficult.
“If you only attack one edge of the bat, people can work you out quite fast. But because Mo creates drift, that I think is a challenge for all batters. He can nick people off.”
The 27-year-old’s performance was unaffected by the mid-match controversy he sparked by batting in wrist-bands proclaiming ‘Save Gaza’ and ‘Free Palestine’.
Moeen, instructed by the International Cricket Council to remove them, was clearly not put off at becoming the centre of attention for non-cricketing reasons, which did not surprise Moores in the slightest.
“I think he was conscious that it happened straightaway and realised it was a mistake that he had it on,” Moores said. “Moeen is a very level-headed bloke and that is one of his real strengths. He stays calm under pressure. So he took it for what it was and moved on.
“Mo has his own personality. I love people who have their own brain and style. Mo has that. You have only to watch him play and how he goes about his business. When he talks to people here, he knows what he stands for and what he is about. That’s a great thing for him to have and it will stand him in good stead.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...en-Ali-turn-the-corner-says-Peter-Moores.html
 
s28 said:
honeymoon period over ?

he has taken 15 wickets in 3 tests against India (mainly top order wickets)

how awesome will he be against batsmen less proficient against spin on more spin friendly sub-continent wickets say ?

must say I expect Pakistan's brittle batting line up to crumble against him on a first day pitch let alone a fifth day one
Click to expand...

:))) mate I know he's good but now you are making him look like some Shane Warne.
 
My biggest worry for Moeen is what he'll be expected to do in the future, will he be a "Batting A/R" "Bowling A/R" "Batsman who can bowl a bit?" I mean what will England view him as on a long term basis? And looking at the way they are desperate for another Swan I think Moeen might not be around soon if his bowling starts failing at times.

You got to keep in mind he has serious problems against short bowling (I recount him being bounced out twice this series?) Is also weak around the off stump and is a compulsive driver hence he'll always be a candidate for a nick off. His bowling heroics are covering up his batting weaknesses here and it's important he focuses and especially England remember he is in the team as a batsman who can bowl a bit and not try making him something (a Swan type bowler) as it could cut his batting development short.

There is good potential in Moeen as he looks like he could play both pace and spin (I'd rather hold my judgement on him for now) but it's really important England remember he is a batsman!
 
Cricketrenew said:
Herath not good enough to be in tier one from what I've have seen.
Moeen lot better then Jadeja. I think Jadeja and Herath should be in tier 3.

I cannot think of anyone else that is too good other then Ajmal. Sad in a way.
Ashwin may be close to any tier 1.
Click to expand...

He's not as good of Ajmal obviously but they are in the same tier. Perhaps you can say that Ajmal stands alone with all formats considered though.

MarkCooper said:
Do you think some of Ali's detractors are mad at him because they feel somehow he has betrayed them by playing for England and not playing for Pakistan (his dad is Pakistani)?
Click to expand...

The only haters are English bigots, Indian trolls and Mamoon. Everyone else has only been giving constructive criticism and want to see him do well.
 
Cover_Drive said:
My biggest worry for Moeen is what he'll be expected to do in the future, will he be a "Batting A/R" "Bowling A/R" "Batsman who can bowl a bit?" I mean what will England view him as on a long term basis? And looking at the way they are desperate for another Swan I think Moeen might not be around soon if his bowling starts failing at times.

You got to keep in mind he has serious problems against short bowling (I recount him being bounced out twice this series?) Is also weak around the off stump and is a compulsive driver hence he'll always be a candidate for a nick off. His bowling heroics are covering up his batting weaknesses here and it's important he focuses and especially England remember he is in the team as a batsman who can bowl a bit and not try making him something (a Swan type bowler) as it could cut his batting development short.

There is good potential in Moeen as he looks like he could play both pace and spin (I'd rather hold my judgement on him for now) but it's really important England remember he is a batsman!
Click to expand...

Can be a genuine all-rounder. Bowling average of around 35, if not lower and batting average of around 40, if not higher.
 
Bilal7 said:
The only haters are English bigots, Indian trolls and Mamoon. Everyone else has only been giving constructive criticism and want to see him do well.
Click to expand...

Thank you for not calling me an Indian. :zardari2
 
Bilal7 said:
He's not as good of Ajmal obviously but they are in the same tier. Perhaps you can say that Ajmal stands alone with all formats considered though.



The only haters are English bigots, Indian trolls and Mamoon. Everyone else has only been giving constructive criticism and want to see him do well.
Click to expand...

His made a 100 and got 15 wickets in series better then Swann, people still saying he needs to establish himself whilst the likes of
Robson, stokes who has more ducks then my local zoo are already flavour of the year....sad some of this these so called experts.
 
Robson is not up to the mark. Stokes is a better cricker than Moeen bhai.
 
How exactly is he better than Moeen? Have you seen his last 12 or so innings? Pretty sure he has a collective sum of 10 runs across them.
 
If anyone saw Umer Amin's innings vs SA in third ODI, you'd know he is a pretty good batsman. Very unlucky to get dismissed. He's not the finished article yet but once he is, he'll be fairly good for PAK.
 
Why compare Moeen with players like Robson and Stokes? Compare him with Root and Ballance. He's a quality player and should be compared with quality players.

Stokes is not as good as Moeen, he's not even better than Jordon. That one century was great but he's looked like a #11 ever since. Pathetic comment.
 
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Bilal7 said:
Can be a genuine all-rounder. Bowling average of around 35, if not lower and batting average of around 40, if not higher.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he won't be. What I'm referring to is the fact that his recent wicket taking exploits are hiding his batting problems and it's more important to focus on that then draw parralels with Swan.
 
Cover_Drive said:
I'm not saying he won't be. What I'm referring to is the fact that his recent wicket taking exploits are hiding his batting problems and it's more important to focus on that then draw parralels with Swan.
Click to expand...

For him it is, and I'm sure he'll get his problems against the short ball sorted out.
 
Stokes is a very good cricketer. He will realize his potential. Moeen Bhai is just the flavor of the season.
 
^ Moeen is a very good cricketer. He will realize his potential. Stokes bhai is the flavor of the season.

Talk about reeking of bias and subjectivity.
 
No, he cannot. He would do well to be able to establish himself as their 4th choice pacer first. His bowling isn't good enough so thats what he should be focusing on instead of trying to become the next Flintoff.

Moeen is a much more genuine all-rounder and the better batsman. Stokes isn't even ebtter than Jordon, Wokes and Liam Plunkett right now.
 
Actually Stokes bowling is pretty good.

Its his batting that is an issue for now.

His bounce is kinda very troubling.
 
But Flintoff's bowling at his peak was just awe inspiring. Not sure Stokes bowling can reach that level.

If Flintoff had maintained his bowling similar to what he showed in during his peak, there was a good chance he would have been rated an ATG bowler.

Just too good at his best.
 
I see lots of ability in Stokes. People writing him off based on a few ducks as if it has never happened to anyone before.
 
I don't see anything special. Just the fact that he came into the side as a fast-bowling all-rounder is what makes people hype him up. He's not the next Flintoff or Botham, he may not even be England's next 3rd choice fast bowler.
 
If England don't show shortsightedness, Stokes would be a better cricketer than Moeen bhai.
 
Says the guy who rates Amin as one of Pakistan's best upcoming batsmen, with the small problem of his stats being tail-ender worthy. You pick the worst "tailunt" to back, Mamoon bhai.
 
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
 
Enough context is present for both Amin and Stokes batting results. Just not good enough.
 
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