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Mohammad Amir : All talent no performance?

Suleiman

Suleiman

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Prior to his comeback there was a lot of talk about him being compared to Wasim and that he was filled with untapped talent ready to take apart batsmen.

This hype was never before seen on PP. There were side by side video and pic comparisons to Wasim, him being put side by side with an ODI superstar like Starc, and now even a comparison with Mustafizur looks a stretch.

As usual, a lot of his diehard fans have backtracked a little and are saying things like they will only judge him by tests and ODIS and t20s don't matter much.

Now, I want boy wonder to perform, and it may take a while before he is ready steady and back to his best, but from what we've seen so far, he may have lost the magic in limited overs.

Thanks.
 
He's bowled well in every match except the last two T20s.

Apart from the one pitch against India, every pitch he's played on has been flat. So not sure where all this "can't bowl on flat tracks" crap is coming from.
 
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Bottom line: Amir is good bowler provided favourable condition.

He is average bowler in non favourable condition.

He will perform well in England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka. He may not perform well in UAE, India, Australia.
 
huh?

Best Pakistani bowler by far since he made his come back.

Did not perform in the last 2 t20s (which btw there were reports he said he was unfit but they asked him to play anyways).

Did you forget his performance against India? In both Asia cup and world cup against India he was phenomenal.
 
He's done well I think he will get better needs to improve his Yorkers at the end of the innings. Looked good in favourable conditions though :amir
 
He has a long way to go but his bowling to date has been good. I think something which is often overlooked is that he needs a good bowling unit around him which is something he is not getting.
 
Two of his fifers in test cricket have been in flattish conditions in t-20 you don't judge bowlers, ashwin got out bowled by badree does that mean badree is between then ashwin?
 
Yup, so far he's performed quite poorly especially considering the fact that he's the one who is expected to lead the Pakistan bowling attack.

He needs to realize that he'll hardly get any bowling friendly pitch these days. Therefore he'll have to renovate himself, otherwise he'll continue to disappoint his fans with his performance. :sree
 
Mohammad Amir - the new James Anderson.

Except that he'll play most of his cricket in Asia so it's not looking good for Pakistan.
 
Varun said:
Mohammad Amir - the new James Anderson.

Except that he'll play most of his cricket in Asia so it's not looking good for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Even after playing in subcontinent I think Amir will have similar averages to Jimmy. So its fine.
 
lol. We're taking t20s too seriously are we? This is a format where you'll often see the Starcs and the Steyns and the Boults get thrashed.

Won't look too much in to this.

Waiting to see him perform in the desert in Tests and ODIs.
 
blackanhyellow said:
Even after playing in subcontinent I think Amir will have similar averages to Jimmy. So its fine.
Click to expand...

Averages 43.50 in Lanka from 3 tests.

40+ in five tests in Australia and New Zealand as well.

If this is a supposedly great bowler, I don't see it.

The Umar Akmal of Pakistan bowling at best.
 
Varun said:
Averages 43.50 in Lanka from 3 tests.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken those were the first three tests of his career.

If you going to go around judging people by their first 5-10 matches then folks like Sachin, Kohli etc would never even had long-lasting/ongoing test careers.


This is what happens when you blindly follow stats without context.
 
Varun said:
Averages 43.50 in Lanka from 3 tests.

40+ in five tests in Australia and New Zealand as well.

If this is a supposedly great bowler, I don't see it.

The Umar Akmal of Pakistan bowling at best.
Click to expand...

I believe Mohd Amir is better than that 40 average but he's not that 25 avg either. He will do well in England where it swings and seams all day. Amir will struggle in Australia.
 
Varun said:
Averages 43.50 in Lanka from 3 tests.

40+ in five tests in Australia and New Zealand as well.

If this is a supposedly great bowler, I don't see it.

The Umar Akmal of Pakistan bowling at best.
Click to expand...

Umm you realize that Sri Lanka series was his debut test series right? His first 3 test matches ever.

Amir also did quite well in Aus. Got a 5 wicket haul in one innings. Played second fiddle to Asif but was way better than Gul.

Took plenty of wickets against Aus in England as well.

I see nothing wrong with his short record so far. His numbers will even out the more he plays and I suspect he will average under 30 in the long run. Which is decent by international standards and phenomenal given recent Pakistani standards especially considering he will play most matches in UAE.

Anyways lets judge him in the long run.
 
People saying that don't judge by T20Is, well the thing is he has a fantastic domestic T20 record, so he should be judged by this format as well, it means he has the potential to be a great T20I bowler, but he hasn't lived up to his potential so far in T20Is after his ban, he bowled well against NZ, in that match his figures didn't tell the complete story, but against Australia he was very ordinary in his last two overs, this is the main worry, he hasn't impressed in death overs, had cost us the last ODI against NZ as well.
 
Sandeep said:
I believe Mohd Amir is better than that 40 average but he's not that 25 avg either. He will do well in England where it swings and seams all day. Amir will struggle in Australia.
Click to expand...

His average will be well below 25 by the time his career finishes.

Varun calling Amir the "Umar Akmal bowling for Pakistan" shows he knows nothing about fast bowling.
 
Syed1 said:
If I'm not mistaken those were the first three tests of his career.

If you going to go around judging people by their first 5-10 matches then folks like Sachin, Kohli etc would never even had long-lasting/ongoing test careers.


This is what happens when you blindly follow stats without context.
Click to expand...

Its always extremes when it comes to fans perception of Amir on PP. He's either an ATG or a GTB. He's not either one of them.

There is no doubt that he's got enormous talent and the willingness to learn. That's enough for a beginner. Great players become great because they improve every year and are easily better then everybody else. When they begin they just show glimpses of greatness instead of sustained excellence because they lack experience to do so. A century at Perth and Headingley or a 5fer in Eng or AUS are just those. Glimpses of brilliance. It is up to them to improve on those and keep performing.

It is unfair to look at their stats in their initial games because they are risk takers with enormous confidence. They will fail in a few games and that's how they learn. Judge him after 3 to 4 years when he's played enough. Give him a chance to learn first. He's still a beginner but someone who has great skill and a potential to be a great.
 
The Last Of The Stars said:
He is also a rare talent, so I do expect such from him.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if he's a rare talent. You've got only 4 overs to make an impact in T20s. There is no time to set a batsman up. Most of the wickets in T20 are through deception or just batsman giving his wicket away. He needs to improve his death bowling skills no doubt but that's doesn't guarantee that he'll take a boat load of wickets every game. The format is just rigged in favor of batsmen.
 
rhony said:
Its always extremes when it comes to fans perception of Amir on PP. He's either an ATG or a GTB. He's not either one of them.

There is no doubt that he's got enormous talent and the willingness to learn. That's enough for a beginner. Great players become great because they improve every year and are easily better then everybody else. When they begin they just show glimpses of greatness instead of sustained excellence because they lack experience to do so. A century at Perth and Headingley or a 5fer in Eng or AUS are just those. Glimpses of brilliance. It is up to them to improve on those and keep performing.

It is unfair to look at their stats in their initial games because they are risk takers with enormous confidence. They will fail in a few games and that's how they learn. Judge him after 3 to 4 years when he's played enough. Give him a chance to learn first. He's still a beginner but someone who has great skill and a potential to be a great.
Click to expand...

Best post regarding Amir I've read on PP
 
Varun said:
Mohammad Amir - the new James Anderson.

Except that he'll play most of his cricket in Asia so it's not looking good for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

I know you have a tendency to dislike English and Australian cricketers, but what evidence or rather what have you based your assessment of Anderson as not being good in unfriendly conditions ?
 
Rafay Shafiq said:
Bottom line: Amir is good bowler provided favourable condition.

He is average bowler in non favourable condition.

He will perform well in England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka. He may not perform well in UAE, India, Australia.
Click to expand...

Just that he hasn't performed in new Zealand and Sri Lanka
 
rhony said:
It doesn't matter if he's a rare talent. You've got only 4 overs to make an impact in T20s. There is no time to set a batsman up. Most of the wickets in T20 are through deception or just batsman giving his wicket away. He needs to improve his death bowling skills no doubt but that's doesn't guarantee that he'll take a boat load of wickets every game. The format is just rigged in favor of batsmen.
Click to expand...

Whatever, he should have bagged at least one MOTM award by now.
 
Troubling Williamson on flat pancakes where even Hafeez looks good is not a performance?

His last 2 matches have been the only ones where he hasn't performed well.
 
Suleiman said:
Prior to his comeback there was a lot of talk about him being compared to Wasim and that he was filled with untapped talent ready to take apart batsmen.

This hype was never before seen on PP. There were side by side video and pic comparisons to Wasim, him being put side by side with an ODI superstar like Starc, and now even a comparison with Mustafizur looks a stretch.

As usual, a lot of his diehard fans have backtracked a little and are saying things like they will only judge him by tests and ODIS and t20s don't matter much.

Now, I want boy wonder to perform, and it may take a while before he is ready steady and back to his best, but from what we've seen so far, he may have lost the magic in limited overs.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Were you expecting miracles?

What were your realistic expectations?

Azhar Mahmood recently "Mohammad Amir was Pakistan's best bowler five years ago, he's still Pakistan's best bowler because he's dedicated and hard-working. He's played no cricket for five years but is still our best bowler. His wrist position is so good and he wants to prove a point. This commitment is missing from some of the other bowlers. What have the other bowlers been doing for the past five years?"
 
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He can't be a Wasim
Akram or abey Kuruvilla in 2 games.. Wait for a while let him play tests and ODIs in different conditions and then make threads.. Pakistani fans are too fickle, you guys are not helping your team.. Kids or not you guys need to think before making such threads..
 
90MPH said:
His average will be well below 25 by the time his career finishes.

Varun calling Amir the "Umar Akmal bowling for Pakistan" shows he knows nothing about fast bowling.
Click to expand...

You will be disappointed...
 
Sandeep said:
You will be disappointed...
Click to expand...

No I won't because I know more about fast bowling than you and I have seen the game more than you. I know what a top bowler is when I see one.

The only one disappointed will be you because you will not be able to stomach the success he will get. Goodbye.
 
Why on earth would you wanna judge him in T20's alone? He was fantastic in the ODI's he's played recently and has been successful in Tests in the past. He's only had two bad T20 games and that was due to our poor morale.
 
Thread is trollish in nature, but Amir fans have brought this on themselves because of how jingoistic and hyper they are.

Needling them is super fun. Blame yourselves, not the OP.

Apparently, calling him a very good talent who has a long way to go is not good enough for some people.

Nonetheless, no point in judging an 18 year old on stats. Amir has great potential, but he is still quite raw and can look lost on flat wickets.
 
There are troll threads and then there are threads by OP...his threads are consitently the worst I have seen on PP in a long time!

His grasp of the game seems to be like that of a 7-8 year old at best
 
Monsee said:
There are troll threads and then there are threads by OP...his threads are consitently the worst I have seen on PP in a long time!

His grasp of the game seems to be like that of a 7-8 year old at best
Click to expand...

In surprised the mods keep allowing him. He's been doing these joke threads for the last 6 months.
 
blackanhyellow said:
huh?

Best Pakistani bowler by far since he made his come back.

Did not perform in the last 2 t20s (which btw there were reports he said he was unfit but they asked him to play anyways).

Did you forget his performance against India? In both Asia cup and world cup against India he was phenomenal.
Click to expand...

There you go, I start feeling dizzy when I hear the word 'talented' in Pakistan team. Off late this word is used as an excuse to justify a player in the team who does'nt perform. Esp. Amir who is first player who has been allowed a return amidst criticism due to his admittance in a form of fixing and serving jail. What this word has done when associated with players like Talented U. Akmal, Talented Shehzad, Talented Wahab Riaz has only justified their places with their performances going down and their disciplinary issues going upside.

The parasites in the cricket board ate busy looting PCB funds don't have time to address or do something with the players who are there for no reason, no performance only 'talent' that can't translate into performance by any player. If there was a cricket board which is'nt rite now] these talented players would have joined the lot of 'talents' like Pietersen, Flintoff or Cronje who thought that they are indispensable.
 
Why Pakistani fans single out Amir only? Honestly speaking he is the only world class player you have...rest all mediocre to ok at best. You guys being over critical on your best player.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
90MPH said:
His average will be well below 25 by the time his career finishes.

Varun calling Amir the "Umar Akmal bowling for Pakistan" shows he knows nothing about fast bowling.
Click to expand...

Similarly he might also finish his career with 35 bowling average, U never know, lol. Irfan pathan had the potential of becoming an ATG fast bowler but sadly he couldn't even play 30 tests in his whole career.

U should judge a player based on what's he doing now and his current stats show that he clearly struggles in flat pitches and usually needs a green mamba to look somewhat threatening :yk
 
Prince_ said:
Similarly he might also finish his career with 35 bowling average, U never know, lol. Irfan pathan had the potential of becoming an ATG fast bowler but sadly he couldn't even play 30 tests in his whole career.

U should judge a player based on what's he doing now and his current stats show that he clearly struggles in flat pitches and usually needs a green mamba to look somewhat threatening :yk
Click to expand...

Still a better bowler than anything BD produced :afridi
 
PakWC2015 said:
He has a long way to go but his bowling to date has been good. I think something which is often overlooked is that he needs a good bowling unit around him which is something he is not getting.
Click to expand...

Exactly. How are you supposed to take wickets without any pressure built from the other end? And hence, at the end of the innings these set batsmen will clobber all bowlers no matter who it is
 
Posters are passing judgement too quickly. Let him play for few years. Anyway, you can't say much about bowlers by seeing them in T-20.
 
His recent record does not match the hype that was created on this forum and pak media.

But then again, since his return, he has mostly played T20 cricket. Just 4 overs that can not even be bowled consecutively, can't be a good measure of his talent. He should be getting test matches soon. I think he will do pretty well in the test matches.

We should be watchful of his fitness. Five years' gap is a long time. He will be physically tested. He will also be bowling wit the Duke ball in England after a long time too. That will also be interesting to watch.
 
Syed1 said:
The guy in your display picture was embarrassed by Afghanistan ,lol.
Click to expand...

Well if you say so .... Anyway, does that make it fine to feel happy about the statement you made, lol.
 
Mat - 9
Wkts - 26
Best - 6/43
AVE - 12.34
Sr - 17.3

Do u know whose bowling stats r these. Yes, u've guessed it right. These r the stats of a player who is considered as the best young fast bowler in world. Enjoy :srini
 
Prince_ said:
Mat - 9
Wkts - 26
Best - 6/43
AVE - 12.34
Sr - 17.3

Do u know whose bowling stats r these. Yes, u've guessed it right. These r the stats of a player who is considered as the best young fast bowler in world. Enjoy :srini
Click to expand...

Lol we will see where he is a year from now. 9 matches :)))
 
Typical thread which highlights the entitlement mentality Pakistani Cricket followers have. What have these followers done for Pakistan Cricket, which player have they patiently backed, stood by thick and skin?
 
Right now, amir is desi version of James Anderson. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
HE has hardly played much and given that he still has pace, swing aand an intelligent bowling mind he will be better than most bowlers in the world as a whole package.
 
For now he has achieved enough in the sense that he is the best bowler PAkistan have which in itself is no mean feat given his 5 year absence
 
even before his ban, he was nothing special just hype
bowling avg of 29, even though he has played 11 test matches (total 14 played so far) in bowling friendly pitches of NZ,Aus & Eng
in Australia : 2 Matches : Avg 40
in NZ : 3 Matches : Avg of 43.71
in SL : 3 Matches : Avg of 43.50

all big hype started with his performance in Eng
vs Aus : 2 Matches : Avg of 22
vs Eng : 4 Matches : Avg of 18
 
Thankless people are pakistanis aint they...
Useless thread as usual. Amir was his magical best just one month ago.. didnt perform on some of the flatest pitches and suddenly he becomes a looser for some... what crap!!!
 
Asim2Good said:
even before his ban, he was nothing special just hype
bowling avg of 29, even though he has played 11 test matches (total 14 played so far) in bowling friendly pitches of NZ,Aus & Eng
in Australia : 2 Matches : Avg 40
in NZ : 3 Matches : Avg of 43.71
in SL : 3 Matches : Avg of 43.50

all big hype started with his performance in Eng
vs Aus : 2 Matches : Avg of 22
vs Eng : 4 Matches : Avg of 18
Click to expand...

Hype was there even when he was 15 years old and playing for U19s and was bowling in high 80s mph with ease.

His career had just started when he got banned and you have to look beyond stats a little to know he was a special talent
 
todfod 11 said:
Thankless people are pakistanis aint they...
Useless thread as usual. Amir was his magical best just one month ago.. didnt perform on some of the flatest pitches and suddenly he becomes a looser for some... what crap!!!
Click to expand...

True, we dont really believe in middle ground. People cant look at the positives that he is still a 90 mph bowler who can swing it and has a bowling mind. Results will come once he gets into the groove. Even in these comeback matches he has shown more talent than any PAkistani bowler in last 5 years
 
hur rizvi said:
Hype was there even when he was 15 years old and playing for U19s and was bowling in high 80s mph with ease.

His career had just started when he got banned and you have to look beyond stats a little to know he was a special talent
Click to expand...

where ever he had played test cricket, he has failed so far other than in England.
whatever talent/potential he has, he has not delivered it.
avg is not in even late 20s, its in 40s
 
Asim2Good said:
where ever he had played test cricket, he has failed so far other than in England.
whatever talent/potential he has, he has not delivered it.
avg is not in even late 20s, its in 40s
Click to expand...

HE was 17 years old at that age, your potential is more important than actual performance

Consistency in performance comes with maturity. He was rated because he had the complete skill set to become a great bowler which he still has. Pace was there, swing was there, and he posessed a good bowling mind.
 
2 ODIs and 11 T20s since his comeback. Tests and to an extent ODIs are where he should be judged for performance.

I guess OP is trying to say the predictions that Amir's comeback will make Pak bowling attack the most potent has not happened so far. Not Amir's fault though, Wahab Riaz not living upto the expectations has primarily led to such a situation but then again T20s are not your best format to judge potency of bowling units.
 
90MPH said:
No I won't because I know more about fast bowling than you and I have seen the game more than you. I know what a top bowler is when I see one.

The only one disappointed will be you because you will not be able to stomach the success he will get. Goodbye.
Click to expand...

I admit he's a good bowler but not <25 avg for sure. Should finish with an avg of around 28.. considering the surfaces he's going to play.. You might be the expert on fast bowling, I'm not. I humbly admit that. :) I'm just being pragmatic.
 
hur rizvi said:
HE was 17 years old at that age, your potential is more important than actual performance

Consistency in performance comes with maturity. He was rated because he had the complete skill set to become a great bowler which he still has. Pace was there, swing was there, and he posessed a good bowling mind.
Click to expand...

oh classic argument of age
where he has failed, he was only 17 at that time. where he has performed, he was great already. Classic.

just imagine him bowling on UAE flat tracks for next 5-6 years after that Eng your if he wasn't banned. where other bowlers have bowled in his absence and been labelled trundlers
 
Haroon786 said:
I know you have a tendency to dislike English and Australian cricketers, but what evidence or rather what have you based your assessment of Anderson as not being good in unfriendly conditions ?
Click to expand...

Has opened the bowling for England in England (where he's played 60% of his tests) and he averages 30. What more is there to be said?

At least he's better than Stuart Broad, who's even more of a GTB.

8lpa6d7.jpg
 
Asim2Good said:
oh classic argument of age
where he has failed, he was only 17 at that time. where he has performed, he was great already. Classic.

just imagine him bowling on UAE flat tracks for next 5-6 years after that Eng your if he wasn't banned. where other bowlers have bowled in his absence and been labelled trundlers
Click to expand...

We cant rate anyone a success based on his first tour

In England he succeeded. Was decent in NZ. HAd one good performance in Aus.

For me his only totally bad series was SL series which can be forgiven since it was his debut.

Potential wise he showed sparks of brilliance at a very young age and thus was rated that is what i have said, too much stats at such a stage of his career are useless interms of rating his potential.
 
Varun said:
Has opened the bowling for England in England (where he's played 60% of his tests) and he averages 30. What more is there to be said?

At least he's better than Stuart Broad, who's even more of a GTB.

8lpa6d7.jpg
Click to expand...

Masha Allah, that is an amazing average of 145 in India, is Broad coming to India again for the test series later this year? Indian batsmen must be licking their lips :msd
 
hur rizvi said:
We cant rate anyone a success based on his first tour

In England he succeeded. Was decent in NZ. HAd one good performance in Aus.

For me his only totally bad series was SL series which can be forgiven since it was his debut.

Potential wise he showed sparks of brilliance at a very young age and thus was rated that is what i have said, too much stats at such a stage of his career are useless interms of rating his potential.
Click to expand...

so series avg of 43 is "decent" for you? then I dont blame you praise you got for Amir
one good performance but still avg 40 in Aus
ok so as it was series debut so all is ok, no worries there.

lets see what he can do when he lands in UAE for test matches where he ll be playing most of his matches
 
No, that's a harsh assessment.
I am more concerned about whether he has the stamina to bowl in 4 test matches
 
Asim2Good said:
so series avg of 43 is "decent" for you? then I dont blame you praise you got for Amir
one good performance but still avg 40 in Aus
ok so as it was series debut so all is ok, no worries there.

lets see what he can do when he lands in UAE for test matches where he ll be playing most of his matches
Click to expand...

He has potential to perform and is much better than any seamer we have presently

I have not said he is totally destined for greatness, but he is all the skill set to become a world class bowler.


IMO he has good skills with old ball and my prediction is that if he stays fit he will perform well in UAE and other asian countries.
 
Pete Rose said:
No, that's a harsh assessment.
I am more concerned about whether he has the stamina to bowl in 4 test matches
Click to expand...

True, his biggest concern is match fitness. If he stays fit he will not be an easy bowler to play specially in English conditions
 
carrom_ball said:
Masha Allah, that is an amazing average of 145 in India, is Broad coming to India again for the test series later this year? Indian batsmen must be licking their lips :msd
Click to expand...

Broad is a changed bowler, from his performance in recent UAE series I can confirm you that if ball reverses he will not be an easy bowler to play.
 
hur rizvi said:
He has potential to perform and is much better than any seamer we have presently

I have not said he is totally destined for greatness, but he is all the skill set to become a world class bowler.


IMO he has good skills with old ball and my prediction is that if he stays fit he will perform well in UAE and other asian countries.
Click to expand...

that's how it is so far , alot of "hope"
 
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