"Mohammad Amir is famous as a match-winner but he has not won any matches for Pakistan" : Moin Khan

[jeetu]

"Mohammad Amir is famous as a match-winner but he has not won any matches for Pakistan" : Moin Khan

http://www.aninews.in/newsdetail-ND...et-chance-in-pak-national-team-moin-khan.html

Former Pakistan skipper Moin Khan has called on the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) to give chance to the domestic performers in the national squad rather than sticking with the players who are struggling to contribute in the side's winning cause.

Questioning fast bowler Mohammad Amir's performance, the former chief selector insisted the pacer failed to give any match-winning performance since his return to the international cricket after serving a spot-fixing ban.

"Amir's performance is questionable. Amir is famous as a match-winner but he has not won any matches for Pakistan yet," Moin, who heads Pakistan Super League ( PSL) franchise Quetta Gladiators' coaching team, was quoted as saying by the Express Tribune.

Moin further suggested fast-bowlers like Junaid Khan and Tabish Khan, who have been contributing well in the domestic cricket, should get a chance to represent their country.

"There are other fast-bowlers like Junaid Khan and Tabish Khan who have been taking wickets in domestic tournaments. They should get a chance to perform for the national team," he said while urging the PCB selection committee.

Moin, who played 69 Tests and 219 ODIs for Pakistan, also reflected his views on recently-concluded two-match series whitewash against New Zealand.

The former wicket-keeper blamed lack of aggressive approach by Pakistan players for their series defeat against the Kane Williamson-led side.

"We used to win matches by playing fearless cricket. That approach was missing in New Zealand and that is the reason for our poor display. The batsmen should have attacked the bowlers to bring them under pressure. We should play aggressively against Australia or we'll suffer the same fate," he said.

 

[kingusama92]

Absurd logic.

You don't go around dropping players because they don't meet your lofty expectations (i.e. match winner). You drop him if he's not one of the top 3-4 pacers in the nation.

Amir 2010 > Amir 2016 is obvious.

Doesn't mean Rahat Ali/Imran Khan/Wahab Riaz/Sohail Khan/Junaid Khan/Tabish > Amir 2016.

 

[Pete Rose]

I actually disoutr the first part of his observation. Aamir is not and never was famous as a match winner. Asif maybe, but Aamir no.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

What was Moin's record, as chief selector and then coach, when it came to giving those who perform in domestic cricket a chance?

 

[kingusama92]

What was Moin's record, as chief selector and then coach, when it came to giving those who perform in domestic cricket a chance?

His brilliant selections include Bilawal Bhatti, Anwar Ali, Nasir Jamshed, Younis Khan (ODIs), Asad Shafiq (ODis repeatedly).

Also was the time when Junaid Khan was good (pre-knee surgery). I guess he's lost in the past.

 

[waleed88]

By that logic Shoaib Akhtar wasn't a match winner either.. Umar Gul has more man of the matches than SA.. doesn't mean Gul is a better bowler

 

[waleed88]

Amir has to be excused after the second test match vs NZ.. he was extremely unfortunate in the first innings. But I'm pretty sure the Aussie series will be his last chance

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Moin has spoken the "taboo" word.

Now watch Moin being decimated by fans of Amir.

 

[kingusama92]

Moin has spoken the "taboo" word.

Now watch Moin being decimated by fans of Amir.

Not a diehard fan of Amir's, but Moin deserves to be criticized for a comment lacking logic.

He's setting a different standard for Amir to justify dropping him.

And he's recommending Junaid Khan from his BPL performance of all things.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thank God this guy no longer has anything to do with the national team. For those who think this is the reaction of "Amir fans" let me clarify. Someone who has been in a position of authority needs to be a lot more mature with his words.

Whether Amir has performed or not is debatable, some would argue he's not picked up enough wickets, others would say he's bowled quite well and his figures have been tarnished by poor fielding and support catching. Either way you expect seniors who have been connected to the team to show some understanding and depth of analysis.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Amir has to be excused after the second test match vs NZ.. he was extremely unfortunate in the first innings. But I'm pretty sure the Aussie series will be his last chance

Really are you the selector...No

Typical pakistan fan reaction lissening to a guy who was average batsmen by himself apart from his keeping he was below average cricketer. Rashid latif was a great wicket keeper better than him but wasim dosti had moin more go than latif.

Now coming back to Amir, Amir didnt set the world on Fire when he was playing in 2010, he was playing fearless cricket and conditions suited him on away tours. About Amir he just came back to cricket 1 yr ago and he was away from the game 5 yrs and not 5 months. Pls wait for his rhythm to be back on and he is getting there, once he finds his swings back, same fans will be praising song of him.

Pls dont lissen to ex-cricketer apart from rashid latif no one is worth lissening to because he has the knowledge of our domestic cricket than anyone else.

Please be patient give him another yr and he will be fine, he is still better bowlers than many in domestic cricket right now.

 

[waleed88]

Not a diehard fan of Amir's, but Moin deserves to be criticized for a comment lacking logic.

He's setting a different standard for Amir to justify dropping him.

And he's recommending Junaid Khan from his BPL performance of all things.

What's so logical about Amir's stats? They're poor than all his contemporaries

 

[waleed88]

Not a diehard fan of Amir's, but Moin deserves to be criticized for a comment lacking logic.

He's setting a different standard for Amir to justify dropping him.

And he's recommending Junaid Khan from his BPL performance of all things.

If I'm not wrong Amir got selected after his performances in BPL 2015, where he was overhyped to no ends.. Junaid has picked up more wickets than him this tournament )

 

[waleed88]

Really are you the selector...No

Typical pakistan fan reaction lissening to a guy who was average batsmen by himself apart from his keeping he was below average cricketer. Rashid latif was a great wicket keeper better than him but wasim dosti had moin more go than latif.

Now coming back to Amir, Amir didnt set the world on Fire when he was playing in 2010, he was playing fearless cricket and conditions suited him on away tours. About Amir he just came back to cricket 1 yr ago and he was away from the game 5 yrs and not 5 months. Pls wait for his rhythm to be back on and he is getting there, once he finds his swings back, same fans will be praising song of him.

Pls dont lissen to ex-cricketer apart from rashid latif no one is worth lissening to because he has the knowledge of our domestic cricket than anyone else.

Please be patient give him another yr and he will be fine, he is still better bowlers than many in domestic cricket right now.

So your team plays a foreign tour after 6 years and Amir has not performed in any of the test matches he has played in.. our players have toiled hard in the heats of UAE, only for Prince of Pakistan to come back and play the winter tours again after being out for 5 years.. why?

 

[lahoriyah1234]

But i will say Junaid Khan deserves another go. I feel for him he should have been dropped like this.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

So your team plays a foreign tour after 6 years and Amir has not performed in any of the test matches he has played in.. our players have toiled hard in the heats of UAE, only for Prince of Pakistan to come back and play the winter tours again after being out for 5 years.. why?

Your logic is irrelevant. My point is to tell you that give him more time. Be patience and you will see the results soon.

 

[kingusama92]

If I'm not wrong Amir got selected after his performances in BPL 2015, where he was overhyped to no ends.. Junaid has picked up more wickets than him this tournament )

What?

He played FC cricket along with BPL.

In fact, he came back March 2015 for Omar Associates and played in the Quaid-E-Azam Trophy (2015) + BPL 2015 before being selected.

 

[kingusama92]

Junaid Khan's stats in FC cricket this season: 3 wickets at 43.66.

Very deserving of a selection.

 

[waleed88]

What?

He played FC cricket along with BPL.

In fact, he came back March 2015 for Omar Associates and played in the Quaid-E-Azam Trophy (2015) + BPL 2015 before being selected.

Ahaan but it was his bowling in BPL that caught the eye of the selectors.. Waqar, Afridi, Misbah, Hafeez all commented on his performances..

 

[waleed88]

Junaid Khan's stats in FC cricket this season: 3 wickets at 43.66.

Very deserving of a selection.

And Amir averages 40 in swinging conditions.. where Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali and Imran Khan have all outbowled him whenever they have played together

Ouch. Bitter pill to swallow

 

[Buffet]

When was Amir famous as match winner? He was work in progress even before his ban.

He is not bowling badly to be honest so not sure why so much focus on him. It's not as if other pacers are winning matches left and right for Pakistan. I think too much focus is not going to help Amir here. Just treat him as another bowler.

 

[kingusama92]

Ahaan but it was his bowling in BPL that caught the eye of the selectors.. Waqar, Afridi, Misbah, Hafeez all commented on his performances..

Absolutely.

But, he was already in line for selection by that point IMO.

 

[Pak_Pace]

I actually agree with the statement but his implication that he should be dropped is questionable (not because Amir's performance guarantees his spot but more to do with the fact that the other fast bowlers have looked much worse than him in general).

 

[waleed88]

When was Amir famous as match winner? He was work in progress even before his ban.

He is not bowling badly to be honest so not sure why so much focus on him. It's not as if other pacers are winning matches left and right for Pakistan. I think too much focus is not going to help Amir here. Just treat him as another bowler.

Seriously? You treat Amir as another bowler? You're kidding me man.. the amount of hype this man had is something of what was being compared to Muhammad Ali after he returned from a 3 year ban.. that was the intensity of hype he received since he came back.. he's certainly not lived up to it

 

[hur rizvi]

Run of the mill bowler is amir, like Gul, aqib javed in tests. He doesnt deserve to get dropped but we need to be realistic in our expectations. He doesnt have anything to become a gret test bowler of his time

 

[kingusama92]

And Amir averages 40 in swinging conditions.. where Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali and Imran Khan have all outbowled him whenever they have played together

Ouch. Bitter pill to swallow

Looks like you're assuming I'm a diehard Amir fan.

So it's logical to replace a guy averaging 40 internationally (it's 37 since his return) with a guy averaging 43 (on seam-friendly wickets) at a lower level this season?

Tabish Khan is a legitimate shout statistically (I've never seen him bowl) but Junaid Khan isn't I'm afraid.

BTW, Rahat Ali averages 37 just like Amir and Wahab Riaz averages 43-44 in the same period.

Sohail Khan is an unfit abomination but yes he's performed "better" at an average of 32.

 

[Buffet]

Seriously? You treat Amir as another bowler? You're kidding me man.. the amount of hype this man had is something of what was being compared to Muhammad Ali after he returned from a 3 year ban.. that was the intensity of hype he received since he came back.. he's certainly not lived up to it

Lofty expectations and hype was unwarranted. Harsh criticism based on not matching lofty expectations is also unwarranted.

 

[Ami]

Personally Amir is still the best of the bad bench we have ...
Lets just leave it to the selectors to decide...it might even do him good to be left out, as he is pencilled in to play for Essex i think next summer?

 

[ExplicitAI]

I'm gonna sound annoying by saying the obvious but those dropped catches really hindered Amir's momentum within matches. Once wickets start tumbling (through catches in this case) Amir could've went on and bagged a few more through lbw or clean bowled (which he has gotten since his come back).

 

[The_Odd_One]

Moin should be the last person to talk about fearless cricket. Under his captaincy Pakistan lost a test series at home to England. The field setting he placed in the 3rd and final test at Karachi was a disgrace. First loss in 40+ years at Karachi stadium came due to his defensive captaincy.

 

[Bewal Express]

A terrible selector talking about a pretty average bowler.

 

[Syed1]

Bhai select karlo Rahat aur Imran ko. Behtao Amir ko bench pe, phir dekhna kitnay matches jeettay ho.

 

[srh]

http://www.aninews.in/newsdetail-ND...et-chance-in-pak-national-team-moin-khan.html

Former Pakistan skipper Moin Khan has called on the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) to give chance to the domestic performers in the national squad rather than sticking with the players who are struggling to contribute in the side's winning cause.

Questioning fast bowler Mohammad Amir's performance, the former chief selector insisted the pacer failed to give any match-winning performance since his return to the international cricket after serving a spot-fixing ban.

"Amir's performance is questionable. Amir is famous as a match-winner but he has not won any matches for Pakistan yet," Moin, who heads Pakistan Super League ( PSL) franchise Quetta Gladiators' coaching team, was quoted as saying by the Express Tribune.

Moin further suggested fast-bowlers like Junaid Khan and Tabish Khan, who have been contributing well in the domestic cricket, should get a chance to represent their country.

"There are other fast-bowlers like Junaid Khan and Tabish Khan who have been taking wickets in domestic tournaments. They should get a chance to perform for the national team," he said while urging the PCB selection committee.

Moin, who played 69 Tests and 219 ODIs for Pakistan, also reflected his views on recently-concluded two-match series whitewash against New Zealand.

The former wicket-keeper blamed lack of aggressive approach by Pakistan players for their series defeat against the Kane Williamson-led side.

"We used to win matches by playing fearless cricket. That approach was missing in New Zealand and that is the reason for our poor display. The batsmen should have attacked the bowlers to bring them under pressure. We should play aggressively against Australia or we'll suffer the same fate," he said.

Agree with Moin bhai that Mohammad Amir is way overrated.

 

[waleed88]

Lofty expectations and hype was unwarranted. Harsh criticism based on not matching lofty expectations is also unwarranted.

When you are hyped to no ends, it works in your favor and disadvantage as well.. he was and hence he was fast tracked into returning into cricket after a BPL stint, didn't even play one full season.. otherwise he would be lingering on like Butt and Asif was..

Once you are an International cricketer, excuses go out the window and the only thing that matters is performance.. if you want to excuse please excuse us from this farce and go back to domestics to 'find' yourself

 

[waleed88]

Looks like you're assuming I'm a diehard Amir fan.

So it's logical to replace a guy averaging 40 internationally (it's 37 since his return) with a guy averaging 43 (on seam-friendly wickets) at a lower level this season?

Tabish Khan is a legitimate shout statistically (I've never seen him bowl) but Junaid Khan isn't I'm afraid.

BTW, Rahat Ali averages 37 just like Amir and Wahab Riaz averages 43-44 in the same period.

Sohail Khan is an unfit abomination but yes he's performed "better" at an average of 32.

An unfit abomination that outbowls Amir.. Rahat Ali picks up wickets more than Amir... Wahab picks up a 5'fer in test matches.. Amir???

 

[Mamoon]

No doubt Amir is massively overrated, but this is quite a shallow statement.

 

[yasir_shah_fan]

14 dropped catches says otherwise. Those who agree with Moin probably don't have the best IQ...

 

[coy0607]

thats actually a very accurate quote, Amir in fact really hasn't won Pakistan any matches since 2010 but he's as popular as a Yasir - a proven match winner

but not everyone needs to be a match winner like Wasim or Waqar- I'll take a consistent bowler and Amir is getting more and more consistent

 

[godzilla]

kick them both out

 

[Suleiman]

This is the most average test attack we've ever fielded.

I'd rather take Sabbir Ahmed pre ban over Junaid who is also more than likely going to get suspected if he comes back. He got rid of the hopping in his bowling but now his arm looks dodgy.

Iftikhar Anjum was better too than the Sohails and Rahats. At least he kept it tight.

 

[kingusama92]

An unfit abomination that outbowls Amir.. Rahat Ali picks up wickets more than Amir... Wahab picks up a 5'fer in test matches.. Amir???

You're moving goalposts and shot yourself in the foot as a result.

Amir has more wickets (25) than every other Pakistani pace bowler since his test return. Sohail Khan has 23. Wahab has 22. Rahat has 16.

Sohail Khan's fitness is the reason his stats make me apprehensive. It's inexcusable to look at stats with a bowler like him because a simple eye test illustrates he's useless in the 2nd innings. It doesn't matter how good a bowler is, if he can't show up at the end of a game because he's unfit or severely fatigued.

Amir is flawed but his issues are nothing compared to his bowling partners. If Amir was deserving of getting dropped, I'd be the first one to write it.

 

[godzilla]

You're moving goalposts and shot yourself in the foot as a result.

Amir has more wickets (25) than every other Pakistani pace bowler since his test return. Sohail Khan has 23. Wahab has 22. Rahat has 16.

Sohail Khan's fitness is the reason his stats make me apprehensive. It's inexcusable to look at stats with a bowler like him because a simple eye test illustrates he's useless in the 2nd innings. It doesn't matter how good a bowler is, if he can't show up at the end of a game because he's unfit or severely fatigued.

Amir is flawed but his issues are nothing compared to his bowling partners. If Amir was deserving of getting dropped, I'd be the first one to write it.

wow.

you dont think its honest when quoting those numbers to include the number of matches or overs?

he only just tops the wickets column, but - and what an omission - he bowled 50% more overs than sohail, almost twice as many as rahat, around 50% more than wahab (who is indisputably crap) and nearly eight times as many overs as imran - and for even more context to your "numbers" - he played 33% more innings than sohail and 60% more than rahat, 45% more than wahab and 600% more innings than imran, and yet despite having so much more running room and freedom to bowl, all he can muster is two more wickets than the next on the list? and thats something to blow a trumpet about?

thats why of those five bowlers, he has the joint worst average (with rahat), and by far the worst strike rate - these stats take into account the number of overs bowled.

really have to questions why on earth someone would quote such useless trash.

 

[Justcrazy]

No one should take place for granted.
You have to perform to be in the team.

 

[Statsman]

Reactions by some posters:
Asif - "Rahat, Sohail and Imran are mediocre bowlers"
Reaction - "Nothing wrong there", "Well said", "PCB is unprofessional", "Asif has been unfairly targeted"

Moin - "Amir hasn't won any matches for Pakistan"
Reaction - "Says a rank mediocre player", "Unprofessional from Moin", "He went to a casino"

 

[Dr_Bassim]

wow.

you dont think its honest when quoting those numbers to include the number of matches or overs?

he only just tops the wickets column, but - and what an omission - he bowled 50% more overs than sohail, almost twice as many as rahat, around 50% more than wahab (who is indisputably crap) and nearly eight times as many overs as imran - and for even more context to your "numbers" - he played 33% more innings than sohail and 60% more than rahat, 45% more than wahab and 600% more innings than imran, and yet despite having so much more running room and freedom to bowl, all he can muster is two more wickets than the next on the list? and thats something to blow a trumpet about?

thats why of those five bowlers, he has the joint worst average (with rahat), and by far the worst strike rate - these stats take into account the number of overs bowled.

really have to questions why on earth someone would quote such useless trash.

It may or may not be trash.

But don't you know?

Anything to put Amir as a superhero bowler, who is trying his best while others are failing around him.

I am the first person to give Amir a chance, because I don't expect him to fire after a 5 year lay off and pick up wickets right, left and center.

But the excuses for his performances are laughable.

He bowled well but he was unlucky.

He bowled well but fielders dropped catches.

He bowled well, but the pitch wasn't suited for him.

He bowled well, but he is coming after a 5 year lay off (a valid one, I must admit).

He bowled okay, but others bowled worse, but they were lucky to pick up wickets.

He bowled average, but at least he is more fitter than other bowlers.

Michael Holding was crying 5 years ago, when he was banned, so he must be something special.

He is a better new ball bowler than Wasim Akram, despite what his stats suggest.

Do you know anything about fast bowling ? Amir is a would -be ATG.

How can this Indian even know about fast bowling? We have legacy on fast bowling, so we are right, when we say that Amir is the best.

That Indian is a jealous dude, who wants Amir out of the team, because he fears that Amir might cause Pakistan to win.

Amir is a superb bowler but his wrist position is problematic after the ban.

Fielders are dropping catches on purpose while Amir is bowling, because they don't want a cheat in the side.

Fielders are targeting Amir on purpose.

Amir is young, give him time, he will vastly improve.

Which other bowler in the world matches Amir ? Hazelwood? He is gun-barrel straight. Amir swings it like a banana.

We have no pace bowlers. Amir has to play.



Let's see, have I missed any?

No I guess that sums up the attitude diehard fans of Amir have.

And I am even willing to give him a chance, but to not critique him because he is "The Chosen One" is kind of ridiculous.

 

[kingusama92]

wow.

you dont think its honest when quoting those numbers to include the number of matches or overs?

he only just tops the wickets column, but - and what an omission - he bowled 50% more overs than sohail, almost twice as many as rahat, around 50% more than wahab (who is indisputably crap) and nearly eight times as many overs as imran - and for even more context to your "numbers" - he played 33% more innings than sohail and 60% more than rahat, 45% more than wahab and 600% more innings than imran, and yet despite having so much more running room and freedom to bowl, all he can muster is two more wickets than the next on the list? and thats something to blow a trumpet about?

thats why of those five bowlers, he has the joint worst average (with rahat), and by far the worst strike rate - these stats take into account the number of overs bowled.

really have to questions why on earth someone would quote such useless trash.

He wrote "Rahat picks up wickets more than Amir" and I illustrated it's untrue. Simple. Nothing I said was factually incorrect.

If I was twisting the truth, I wouldn't have highlighted the importance of context using one's eyes. Sohail Khan on paper looks reasonable but any viewer can see he never performs in the second innings of a test due to fatigue.

In fact, Imran Khan is the better bowler in my eyes and always has been.

Between Rahat, Wahab, and Amir, I've always felt Amir is the best of the trio. He's the one who creates the most chances.

The hierarchy right now is:

1) Imran Khan
2) Mohammad Amir
3) Rahat Ali
4) Wahab Riaz
5) Sohail Khan

I refuse to rate Sohail Khan unless test cricket implements a "Super Sub" rule and you can take him out after the first innings.

It's sad Pakistan doesn't utilize Imran Khan.

 

[kingusama92]

It may or may not be trash.

But don't you know?

Anything to put Amir as a superhero bowler, who is trying his best while others are failing around him.

100% spot on. The excuses are needless.

He's had a few below par performances since his return even with dropped catches being involved.

BUT isn't it a disservice to drop Amir using the same standards (i.e. match winner) as Moin is suggesting?

 

[waleed88]

You're moving goalposts and shot yourself in the foot as a result.

Amir has more wickets (25) than every other Pakistani pace bowler since his test return. Sohail Khan has 23. Wahab has 22. Rahat has 16.

Sohail Khan's fitness is the reason his stats make me apprehensive. It's inexcusable to look at stats with a bowler like him because a simple eye test illustrates he's useless in the 2nd innings. It doesn't matter how good a bowler is, if he can't show up at the end of a game because he's unfit or severely fatigued.

Amir is flawed but his issues are nothing compared to his bowling partners. If Amir was deserving of getting dropped, I'd be the first one to write it.

Nice the guy plays the most games and still gets compared to others.. who is shifting goalposts brother? The guy has easily been our second worst bowler besides Wahab Riaz, and even he has a 5'fer

 

[waleed88]

100% spot on. The excuses are needless.

He's had a few below par performances since his return even with dropped catches being involved.

BUT isn't it a disservice to drop Amir using the same standards (i.e. match winner) as Moin is suggesting?

You are basically saying the exact same thing what I am saying, except you don't wanna accept that he has been p*** poor.. and by the way that other post by Basim bhai was sarcasm

 

[waleed88]

He wrote "Rahat picks up wickets more than Amir" and I illustrated it's untrue. Simple. Nothing I said was factually incorrect.

If I was twisting the truth, I wouldn't have highlighted the importance of context using one's eyes. Sohail Khan on paper looks reasonable but any viewer can see he never performs in the second innings of a test due to fatigue.

In fact, Imran Khan is the better bowler in my eyes and always has been.

Between Rahat, Wahab, and Amir, I've always felt Amir is the best of the trio. He's the one who creates the most chances.

The hierarchy right now is:

1) Imran Khan
2) Mohammad Amir
3) Rahat Ali
4) Wahab Riaz
5) Sohail Khan

I refuse to rate Sohail Khan unless test cricket implements a "Super Sub" rule and you can take him out after the first innings.

It's sad Pakistan doesn't utilize Imran Khan.

Your refusal has no bearings on the truth, which is factual in the sense that Sohail Khan has had a match winning 5'fer in a series defining test match.. which led us to no.1 rankings.. and in which Amir was a no show.. Whereas Sohail has consistently moved the ball both ways, Amir has only done it once in the 2nd test match vs NZ.. and that too since he came back in Test Matches.. He is treading a fine line between getting dropped and keeping his place.. Australian series should be his last if he keeps it up like this

 

[waleed88]

Looks like Moin is not the only one who wants Junaid Khan back

 

[kingusama92]

Nice the guy plays the most games and still gets compared to others.. who is shifting goalposts brother? The guy has easily been our second worst bowler besides Wahab Riaz, and even he has a 5'fer

How can I shift goalposts when I'm responding to your criteria? You mentioned averages, I replied with averages. You mentioned wickets, I replied with wickets.

If context is being cited, why is Amir criticized for a larger sample size when others can be criticized for a small sample size?

It works both ways.

 

[waleed88]

How can I shift goalposts when I'm responding to your criteria? You mentioned averages, I replied with averages. You mentioned wickets, I replied with wickets.

If context is being cited, why is Amir criticized for a larger sample size when others can be criticized for a small sample size?

It works both ways.

Denial also works both ways

 

[waleed88]

How can I shift goalposts when I'm responding to your criteria? You mentioned averages, I replied with averages. You mentioned wickets, I replied with wickets.

If context is being cited, why is Amir criticized for a larger sample size when others can be criticized for a small sample size?

It works both ways.

Amir has been criticized for the crap he has put up despite being the given the most chances to perform.. he's been crap... Inzamam, Wasim, Rashid Latif and Moin Khan have all said this..

Infact besides Waqar Younis none of the past cricketers have been supported of him, infact even Waqar pointed out he has a problem with his wrist position

 

[kingusama92]

Denial also works both ways

Alright, let's say I'm out to lunch on Amir, who is an adequate replacement for him?

Amir Criticisms:

1) Got In After BPL Performance (2015)
2) Didn't Swing Ball In Good Conditions
3) Bad Test Stats

Junaid Khan's Performance:

1) Good BPL Performance (2016)
2) Didn't Swing Ball In FC Cricket on seam-friendly pitches
3) Bad FC Stats (3 matches @ 43 avg.)

If Amir is criticized, surely you can't praise Junaid Khan?! You should vehemently oppose it.

Than we move onto other options.

Tabish Khan? Mohammad Abbas?

Please remember, Mohammad Amir took 16 wickets @ 14 AVG (4 Matches) last season in FC cricket before getting selected.

 

[waleed88]

Alright, let's say I'm out to lunch on Amir, who is an adequate replacement for him?

Amir Criticisms:

1) Got In After BPL Performance (2015)
2) Didn't Swing Ball In Good Conditions
3) Bad Test Stats

Junaid Khan's Performance:

1) Good BPL Performance (2016)
2) Didn't Swing Ball In FC Cricket on seam-friendly pitches
3) Bad FC Stats (3 matches @ 43 avg.)

If Amir is criticized, surely you can't praise Junaid Khan?! You should vehemently oppose it.

Than we move onto other options.

Tabish Khan? Mohammad Abbas?

Please remember, Mohammad Amir took 16 wickets @ 14 AVG (4 Matches) last season in FC cricket before getting selected.

Like I said before, he should go back to domestic and prove himself once again.. Junaid Khan has been a seasoned performer who HAS NOT had a 5 year gap.. I can show you plenty of stats from past 5 years to prove Junaid has what it takes to sustain at the top level.. When was the last time Amir played a full season in domestics? Let me guess? 2009-10?

The initial arguement was that Amir was undercooked, underprepared, not found his rhythm, has not played one full season of domestics.. his muscles are not used to rigors of Int cricket.. then give him that chance.. why you ruining International team's chances when the player is not even International level yet

 

[www787]

Moin has spoken the "taboo" word.

Now watch Moin being decimated by fans of Amir.

Or maybe you jumped on your own bandwagon in an attempt to try to be different.

Consensus among majority is Amir isn't the same bowler as he used to be before 2010.

 

[Statsman]

I think the fairly recent acquired reputation of getting tonked by Bangladeshi batsmen (especially Tamim) is going against Junaid Khan as it has hurt the ego of the masses. If he is in such a good form, he deserves a come back to at least the T20 team. I'm sure he will.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

What?

He played FC cricket along with BPL.

In fact, he came back March 2015 for Omar Associates and played in the Quaid-E-Azam Trophy (2015) + BPL 2015 before being selected.

What was amir's performance in that FC (which you think made his comeback rather than BPL)??

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Or maybe you jumped on your own bandwagon in an attempt to try to be different.

Consensus among majority is Amir isn't the same bowler as he used to be before 2010.

Obviously, if you are not an Amir diehard, the conclusion is easier to come to.

 

[kingusama92]

What was amir's performance in that FC (which you think made his comeback rather than BPL)??

16 wickets @ 14 AVG (4 Matches) in Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2015). Plus he did well for Omar Associates.

 

[waleed88]

16 wickets @ 14 AVG (4 Matches) in Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2015). Plus he did well for Omar Associates.

Is 4 matches a full season? I didn't know our domestics ran so short

 

[waleed88]

The result of playing in those 4 matches is evident, an undercooked underwhelming bowler who is bowling at medium pace with no swing, in swinging conditions.. thats a waste of an International spot.

Who's only decent performance came in a t20 game vs India in Asia cup

 

[waleed88]

Despite having played almost all games for Pakistan in ODIs, t20s and Test Matches.. thats shoddy fast bowling at its best

 

[kingusama92]

Like I said before, he should go back to domestic and prove himself once again.. Junaid Khan has been a seasoned performer who HAS NOT had a 5 year gap.. I can show you plenty of stats from past 5 years to prove Junaid has what it takes to sustain at the top level.. When was the last time Amir played a full season in domestics? Let me guess? 2009-10?

The initial arguement was that Amir was undercooked, underprepared, not found his rhythm, has not played one full season of domestics.. his muscles are not used to rigors of Int cricket.. then give him that chance.. why you ruining International team's chances when the player is not even International level yet

But what are his stats post-knee injury? No one denies Junaid Khan in 2012-2013 was a very good bowler. He was our best pacer in fact.

Then he got injured in OCT 2014.

Nothing after this point proves he's a seasoned performer barring the BPL performance. Nothing of note in Pakistan Cup, PSL, Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2015), Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2016).

Why was he selected for Bangladesh in 2015? All he had was a rehab stint in the academy yet they "fast-tracked" him into the squad.

It was highly irresponsible and his performances said it all.

Vs. Bangladesh (ODIs): 3 Wickets @ 60 AVG (3 Matches)

Vs. Zimbabwe (ODIs): 0 Wickets (1 Match)

Vs. Bangladesh (Tests): 5 Wickets @ 39 AVG (2 Matches)

Vs. Sri Lanka (Tests): 1 Wicket @ 180 AVG (2 Matches)

What suggests he can sustain performance at the international level? I can agree to Amir being rubbish, but using it to bolster Junaid Khan isn't right.

The goal should be to have a meritocracy. If one player shouldn't live on past successes neither should anyone else.

If Amir put up 16 wickets @ 14 in Quaid-e-Azam (2015) and was undercooked than Junaid Khan was downright club cricketer level this season past BPL performances where Amir did just as well (look below). Plus, Amir outperformed Junaid Khan in PSL 2015.

BPL Stats:

Amir: 14 wickets @ 12 (9 Matches)

Khan: 20 wickets @ 14 (13 Matches)

Junaid Khan (2016 version) has shown nothing to suggest he's better than Amir (2016 version).

 

[kingusama92]

Is 4 matches a full season? I didn't know our domestics ran so short

Back to my original question then.

Who is a better replacement?

Even you've stated 4 matches isn't a full season. So Junaid Khan's 3 matches isn't for sure.

It's okay to want to remove a fast bowler, but a replacement is required while we wait for Junaid Khan to light up Quaid-e-Azam (2017) next October.

 

[waleed88]

Back to my original question then.

Who is a better replacement?

Even you've stated 4 matches isn't a full season. So Junaid Khan's 3 matches isn't for sure.

It's okay to want to remove a fast bowler, but a replacement is required while we wait for Junaid Khan to light up Quaid-e-Azam (2017) next October.

Did Junaid Khan play 4 domestic matches in the past 5 years?

 

[waleed88]

But what are his stats post-knee injury? No one denies Junaid Khan in 2012-2013 was a very good bowler. He was our best pacer in fact.

Then he got injured in OCT 2014.

Nothing after this point proves he's a seasoned performer barring the BPL performance. Nothing of note in Pakistan Cup, PSL, Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2015), Quaid-e-Azam Trophy (2016).

Why was he selected for Bangladesh in 2015? All he had was a rehab stint in the academy yet they "fast-tracked" him into the squad.

It was highly irresponsible and his performances said it all.

Vs. Bangladesh (ODIs): 3 Wickets @ 60 AVG (3 Matches)

Vs. Zimbabwe (ODIs): 0 Wickets (1 Match)

Vs. Bangladesh (Tests): 5 Wickets @ 39 AVG (2 Matches)

Vs. Sri Lanka (Tests): 1 Wicket @ 180 AVG (2 Matches)

What suggests he can sustain performance at the international level? I can agree to Amir being rubbish, but using it to bolster Junaid Khan isn't right.

The goal should be to have a meritocracy. If one player shouldn't live on past successes neither should anyone else.

If Amir put up 16 wickets @ 14 in Quaid-e-Azam (2015) and was undercooked than Junaid Khan was downright club cricketer level this season past BPL performances where Amir did just as well (look below). Plus, Amir outperformed Junaid Khan in PSL 2015.

BPL Stats:

Amir: 14 wickets @ 12 (9 Matches)

Khan: 20 wickets @ 14 (13 Matches)

Junaid Khan (2016 version) has shown nothing to suggest he's better than Amir (2016 version).

14 wickets - no.9th Top Wicket Taker..

20 wickets - joint top wicket taker.. A difference of only 8 places and 6 wickets....

Almost the same I imagine

 

[waleed88]

Back to my original question then.

Who is a better replacement?

Even you've stated 4 matches isn't a full season. So Junaid Khan's 3 matches isn't for sure.

It's okay to want to remove a fast bowler, but a replacement is required while we wait for Junaid Khan to light up Quaid-e-Azam (2017) next October.

1 bowler gun barrel straight at 130 kph - plays every International game, Chosen one, future of Pakistan cricket, only below Steyn and Anderson as best bowler in the world if his catches were taken..

Another bowler gun barrel straight at 130 kph - (best bowler of a tournament) - rubbish, pathetic, useless, trundler, no swing, left handed Umar Gul...

 

[waleed88]

Back to my original question then.

Who is a better replacement?

Even you've stated 4 matches isn't a full season. So Junaid Khan's 3 matches isn't for sure.

It's okay to want to remove a fast bowler, but a replacement is required while we wait for Junaid Khan to light up Quaid-e-Azam (2017) next October.

There are plenty of bowlers who Mohammad Amir should be a replacement (including Junaid Khan) for but he is an automatic first pick.. which he shouldn't be

 

[kingusama92]

14 wickets - no.9th Top Wicket Taker..

20 wickets - joint top wicket taker.. A difference of only 8 places and 6 wickets....

Almost the same I imagine

And 4 extra matches.

When I did it with the test matches, you guys blasted me. When you do it, everything is okay? Nice.

 

[waleed88]

And 4 extra matches.

When I did it with the test matches, you guys blasted me. When you do it, everything is okay? Nice.

So you comparing Amir to Junaid Khan.... a trundler who bowls at 130kph.... nice.. shows the level he is at

 

[waleed88]

And 4 extra matches.

When I did it with the test matches, you guys blasted me. When you do it, everything is okay? Nice.

Also when Antoine Griezman wins the golden boot, or James Rodriguez does win it in World Cup, you don't look at the number of games they played in, but their contribution.. Games are only looked at when its a tie between two for the top spot .

Amir had no telling contribution to Chittagong's fortunes but Junaid has taken a team to the semi final and has been the best pacer of the tournament.. these are the things you do look at.. or how many match winning contributions you had as a bowler..

Yet it was Mohammad Amir who everyone was talking about sadly..

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

If Mohammad Amir does not perform at optimum levels in Australia than drop him for the time being.

Yes since his comeback he has not given match winning performances.

Personally I expect him to bounce back now. Pink Ball Test might would be the best opputunity for him. But even if he performs it remains to be seen whether he can back those numbers with Red ball in Day matches on flatter surfaces or not ?

For a change it would be good if fielders take some catches of his bowling.


Wrt Tabish Khan he needs a call for next Pakistan Cricket team Camp at NCA. His future should be decided than taking input of Misbah, Azhar, Mudassar & Arthur. His performances at Age 30 on Pakistan A tour of SL (2015) should be taken in account aswell.

Junaid has done enough to stake a claim in Limited overs Cricket. I am liking his upright seam position (revival) and fast medium pace. I just hope that his action is under 15 degrees limit. He is border line for me.

Regarding Test comeback Junaid needs Fc Cricket at his back. His Fc record in last 3 years is Worst. Very very Poor. Even this year He was benched by Wapda in few matches and rightly so.

 

[kingusama92]

So you comparing Amir to Junaid Khan.... a trundler who bowls at 130kph.... nice.. shows the level he is at

Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan, or Jiminy Cricket, it doesn't matter as long as the best 3-4 bowlers participate for Pakistan.

So comparing him to a lesser bowler doesn't hurt me. I defend Amir because I believe he deserves his spot for a while longer, nothing more than that.

Plus, I'm still trying to find who the right replacement is for Amir.

Look at the top names such as Tabish Khan, Mohammad Abbas, Atif Jabbar, and Mir Hamza. The only one who has a legitimate chance is Mir Hamza and he was below par for Pakistan A in Zimbabwe.

There are slim pickings with these guys feasting on poorly prepared wickets (with all due respect).

I think it's become a case of people assuming we have better talent wasting away in domestic cricket and that's simply untrue.

Pakistan is a nation of rubbish fast bowling talent right now. You can shuffle the pieces (i.e. Amir for Junaid Khan) but it'll all come back to average results considering current performance. I believe the selectors are now pinning their hopes on Amir regaining his touch as he's shown through bits and pieces since his comeback.

Still, Aussie tour could be his last chance in test cricket for a while. Depends on how it goes.

 

[kingusama92]

If Mohammad Amir does not perform at optimum levels in Australia than drop him for the time being.

Yes since his comeback he has not given match winning performances.

Personally I expect him to bounce back now. Pink Ball Test might would be the best opputunity for him. But even if he performs it remains to be seen whether he can back those numbers with Red ball in Day matches on flatter surfaces or not ?

For a change it would be good if fielders take some catches of his bowling.


Wrt Tabish Khan he needs a call for next Pakistan Cricket team Camp at NCA. His future should be decided than taking input of Misbah, Azhar, Mudassar & Arthur. His performances at Age 30 on Pakistan A tour of SL (2015) should be taken in account aswell.

Junaid has done enough to stake a claim in Limited overs Cricket. I am liking his upright seam position (revival) and fast medium pace. I just hope that his action is under 15 degrees limit. He is border line for me.

Regarding Test comeback Junaid needs Fc Cricket at his back. His Fc record in last 3 years is Worst. Very very Poor. Even this year He was benched by Wapda in few matches and rightly so.

Which bowlers in your estimation are worthy of selection right now? Whose name would be at the top of your list?

If not Amir, it's clear someone will get chopped after a poor AUS series.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Which bowlers in your estimation are worthy of selection right now? Whose name would be at the top of your list?

If not Amir, it's clear someone will get chopped after a poor AUS series.

Before the FC season began I had my eyes on :

Mohammad Asif

Ali Imran Pasha &

Ghulam Mudassar


I wanted one of Asif or Ali Imran to be selected for Pakistan Test Tour of Australia. Ali Imran has a terrific start to the season. He is a new ball bowler who came in to bowl at 3rd change for reason known to his Captain yet He bowled the best spell of Qea for me. You can watch that on Youtube.

Asif got injured before season and mid season. So he missed out mainly due to injury issues. Had a decent Fc season after 6 years of No FC season.


Ghulam has impressed but he needs a year to develop control over his Line and length. He is the fastest left arm pacer in Fc cricket and swings it aswell. 2nd best is Majid Ali who is out of sorts since last 12 months injury might be the reason. Mir Hamza is the best for Nz wickets we were given plus English and SA wickets. But not overall since he isn't capable of regularly bowling in fast medium range.


Wrt Test team if Asif remains fit than He will be my first pick.

Wrt Odi team I would like to pick Ali Imran or Sadaf Hussain provided they end up in Top 5 bowlers of National One day Cup. Both are capable. For pace I would give Ali the edge.


And if Selectors and NCA feel that Junaids action is within 15 degrees than He should be recalled for Odi's vs Australia. Pace is back, control is better and he is presenting upright seam currently.

 

[kingusama92]

Before the FC season began I had my eyes on :

Mohammad Asif

Ali Imran Pasha &

Ghulam Mudassar


I wanted one of Asif or Ali Imran to be selected for Pakistan Test Tour of Australia. Ali Imran has a terrific start to the season. He is a new ball bowler who came in to bowl at 3rd change for reason known to his Captain yet He bowled the best spell of Qea for me. You can watch that on Youtube.

Asif got injured before season and mid season. So he missed out mainly due to injury issues. Had a decent Fc season after 6 years of No FC season.


Ghulam has impressed but he needs a year to develop control over his Line and length. He is the fastest left arm pacer in Fc cricket and swings it aswell. 2nd best is Majid Ali who is out of sorts since last 12 months injury might be the reason. Mir Hamza is the best for Nz wickets we were given plus English and SA wickets. But not overall since he isn't capable of regularly bowling in fast medium range.


Wrt Test team if Asif remains fit than He will be my first pick.

Wrt Odi team I would like to pick Ali Imran or Sadaf Hussain provided they end up in Top 5 bowlers of National One day Cup. Both are capable. For pace I would give Ali the edge.


And if Selectors and NCA feel that Junaids action is within 15 degrees than He should be recalled for Odi's vs Australia. Pace is back, control is better and he is presenting upright seam currently.

Thanks!

Great information and some interesting names to look out for.

It's also depressing that Asif took a 6+ year break and no one could claim his spot. Indeed, WI tour could be a return for him.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Thanks!

Great information and some interesting names to look out for.

It's also depressing that Asif took a 6+ year break and no one could claim his spot. Indeed, WI tour could be a return for him.

You're Welcome.


If any of our pacers get injured in Warm Up match or 1st Test than in how many days Asif can get Visa for Australia ?


Had Sadaf played the right Fc tournament in 2012 than He could have made an excellent entry into International Cricket vs SA in SA in 2013. Him not getting picked for that tour has only himself to be blamed for. Ehsan, Irfan, Rahat all got picked for tge firstime and Tanveer made a comeback.

 

[Shafi]

14 dropped catches says otherwise. Those who agree with Moin probably don't have the best IQ...

Most of the fans judge players by scorecard!!!!!