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"Mohammad Amir is famous as a match-winner but he has not won any matches for Pakistan" : Moin Khan

TalentSpotterPk said:
You're Welcome.


If any of our pacers get injured in Warm Up match or 1st Test than in how many days Asif can get Visa for Australia ?


Had Sadaf played the right Fc tournament in 2012 than He could have made an excellent entry into International Cricket vs SA in SA in 2013. Him not getting picked for that tour has only himself to be blamed for. Ehsan, Irfan, Rahat all got picked for tge firstime and Tanveer made a comeback.
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5 working days for a temporary sports visa.

I'd assume Asif's (or anyone else) would have the application fast-tracked as a high-profile athlete.
 
Typical former players we got. These people always have their own sets of preference. How on earth he supports Umar Gul? SK and Sethi are far better than these biased people to do job.
 
waleed88 said:
When Mohammad Amir came to the Pakistan side, he was the new Lamborghini... He was fast, he was accurate, he gave good mileage, and it had a long career ahead of them as it would win us many races..

However the Lamborghini had a car crash, and it came back after 5 years, but not fully repaired, some parts were still not in optimum running, you think a Lamborghini even after 5 years of absence is still a Lamborghini, or will you start comparing it with a Honda Civic (Junaid Khan), or a Corolla Indus (Sohail Khan), or an Alto (Rahat Ali)...??

A Lamborghini should still be expected to do better than the above mentioned cars, and if its not it needs to get properly tested and tried, repaired.. all its glitches fixed... before being released again..
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I believe this mindset is being used by Inzi and his selectors.

Instead of letting him fix those problems in domestic cricket, they're doing it at the international level. They're letting him work on those issues without the pressure of getting dropped.

Is it smart? We shall see.

I think the idea is the seam-friendly pitches in domestic cricket won't help his development. He'll amble in and average 14-15 without breaking a sweat.

It's an odd position for the selectors. I think they're hoping Amir does well in AUS and this fades away into the dark otherwise it's going to be one hell of a decision for them to make.
 
Shafi said:
Most of the fans judge players by scorecard!!!!!
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Or you saw the match and know that those dropped catches all happened in the first 3-4 overs with the new ball and were often of the same batsman. Nothing happened after that
 
kingusama92 said:
5 working days for a temporary sports visa.

I'd assume Asif's (or anyone else) would have the application fast-tracked as a high-profile athlete.
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Incase there is an injury to any pacer Asif should fly immediately.

Pcb must take his passport now.
 
Would he still be saying this had every dropped catch of Amir's bowling been taken
 
Kohli is a fan of amir's bowling right. He likes rohit sharma and AbD in t20s. And all 3 r underperforming :D
Tell us something about :kohli the master jinxer :P
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Incase there is an injury to any pacer Asif should fly immediately.

Pcb must take his passport now.
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Indeed. I hope they've prepared all his documents. It's a long tour so there's a strong chance of one of the pacers getting injured/ unfit.
 
Indiafan said:
Or you saw the match and know that those dropped catches all happened in the first 3-4 overs with the new ball and were often of the same batsman. Nothing happened after that
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So according to you drop catches do not affect bowlers' performances. 1 drop per match is more than enough.Dropping 3-4 catches per match regardless its 1 or 2 players effect bowlers' performances badly. Once a bowler get lucky or hard fought wicket its helps a bowler to bully opposition batsman. How many catches other players drop for 1 particular bowler? Its getting ridiculous now. Our players must determine whether they want Amir in the team or not. Its deeply hurting our team's performances.
 
Shafi said:
So according to you drop catches do not affect bowlers' performances. 1 drop per match is more than enough.Dropping 3-4 catches per match regardless its 1 or 2 players effect bowlers' performances badly. Once a bowler get lucky or hard fought wicket its helps a bowler to bully opposition batsman. How many catches other players drop for 1 particular bowler? Its getting ridiculous now. Our players must determine whether they want Amir in the team or not. Its deeply hurting our team's performances.
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. .

He didn't do anything in the matches catches were not dropped. Other pak bowlers had catches dropped but went on to take wickets

In.the eng pak series multiple catches.were dropped off umesh and shami on flat surfaces in initial overs yet they went on to take wickets
 
Speedster777 said:
Indeed. I hope they've prepared all his documents. It's a long tour so there's a strong chance of one of the pacers getting injured/ unfit.
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The boundaries will be solid like rock while the runup areas won't be so. This will put alot of pressure on hamstring and back especially for those who have poor fitness history.
 
Speedster777 said:
Thanks a lot for an informative post! Delighted to know Junaid's pace is back.
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JazaakAllah. Not just pace. Accuracy of line and length was his issue aswell. Let's see how he performs in List A games incase he doesn't make the One day squad for Australia.
 
Bowled well today, hopefully he keeps it up and the badwah of the not so patriotic Pakistan Cricket haters and India lovers doesn't affect him inshaAllah [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]
 
shaz619 said:
Bowled well today, hopefully he keeps it up and the badwah of the not so patriotic Pakistan Cricket haters and India lovers doesn't affect him inshaAllah [MENTION=3474]TalhaSyed[/MENTION]
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Yup - had a great bowling spelling at the end of the day today.

Was swinging the ball a bit which was great to see.

InshAllah - as you said - hope he can build on this and get some rythym back.

On a side not - I love Kaptaan Misbah's attacking field :misbah

335grwp.png
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
If Mohammad Amir does not perform at optimum levels in Australia than drop him for the time being.

Yes since his comeback he has not given match winning performances.

Personally I expect him to bounce back now. Pink Ball Test might would be the best opputunity for him. But even if he performs it remains to be seen whether he can back those numbers with Red ball in Day matches on flatter surfaces or not ?

For a change it would be good if fielders take some catches of his bowling.


Wrt Tabish Khan he needs a call for next Pakistan Cricket team Camp at NCA. His future should be decided than taking input of Misbah, Azhar, Mudassar & Arthur. His performances at Age 30 on Pakistan A tour of SL (2015) should be taken in account aswell.

Junaid has done enough to stake a claim in Limited overs Cricket. I am liking his upright seam position (revival) and fast medium pace. I just hope that his action is under 15 degrees limit. He is border line for me.

Regarding Test comeback Junaid needs Fc Cricket at his back. His Fc record in last 3 years is Worst. Very very Poor. Even this year He was benched by Wapda in few matches and rightly so.
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Though the CAXI seams very week but looks like Amir is turning it around as expected. Pink Ball, Daynight swinging conditions.

Hope he has a good Test Series. His pace will be 7-10 kph higher on Aussie speed guns compared to NZ speed guns.
 
Indiafan said:
Or you saw the match and know that those dropped catches all happened in the first 3-4 overs with the new ball and were often of the same batsman. Nothing happened after that
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If you are going to get team out under 100 in good conditions, first 4/5 overs are key. In second test against NZ, Raval was dropped on first or second ball, Amir took the wicket of the other opener in last ball, but that could have been 2 in first over, that too of inform batsman, that score line fetch you 1/2 more, he almost got caught KW(both got 40+ score on those green conditions)... Plus other bowlers don't put any pressure, Sohail/Rahat/Wahab bowls too many loose deliveries, that is criminal in good conditions.

If we had one more bowler of Amir's class, aka Asif things would have been a whole lot different this year for Pakistani pace attack. They both don't bowl too many loose delivery with new cherry, that's where you can do most damage...Strac and HW work well together for a reason, same goes for Anderson/Broad or Styen/Vernon even Abot they don't bowl too many loose deliveries, if you take one out, effectiveness of other will be reduced to half, batmen get a breather quite often.
 
TalhaSyed said:
Yup - had a great bowling spelling at the end of the day today.

Was swinging the ball a bit which was great to see.

InshAllah - as you said - hope he can build on this and get some rythym back.

On a side not - I love Kaptaan Misbah's attacking field :misbah

335grwp.png
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To be fair Captain is only have that field after they already are at 3/3, I bet you he did not started with that field, its Misbah we are talking about ;-)
 
Nothing's changed. He still needs plenty of work.

This is expected from Amir in swinging conditions. No one in world cricket has the same level on control.
 
TalhaSyed said:
Yup - had a great bowling spelling at the end of the day today.

Was swinging the ball a bit which was great to see.

InshAllah - as you said - hope he can build on this and get some rythym back.

On a side not - I love Kaptaan Misbah's attacking field :misbah
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Despite all those catchers Amir knew his best course of action is to get the batsmen bowled or lbw. :amir2
 
Indiafan said:
. .

He didn't do anything in the matches catches were not dropped. Other pak bowlers had catches dropped but went on to take wickets

In.the eng pak series multiple catches.were dropped off umesh and shami on flat surfaces in initial overs yet they went on to take wickets
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Totally wrong!!!!
Neither (other) Pakistan bowlers nor Indian bowlers fielders did not drop 17+ catches. For 1 bowler 17+ drop catches is unforgivable.
 
yasir said:
If you are going to get team out under 100 in good conditions, first 4/5 overs are key. In second test against NZ, Raval was dropped on first or second ball, Amir took the wicket of the other opener in last ball, but that could have been 2 in first over, that too of inform batsman, that score line fetch you 1/2 more, he almost got caught KW(both got 40+ score on those green conditions)... Plus other bowlers don't put any pressure, Sohail/Rahat/Wahab bowls too many loose deliveries, that is criminal in good conditions.

If we had one more bowler of Amir's class, aka Asif things would have been a whole lot different this year for Pakistani pace attack. They both don't bowl too many loose delivery with new cherry, that's where you can do most damage...Strac and HW work well together for a reason, same goes for Anderson/Broad or Styen/Vernon even Abot they don't bowl too many loose deliveries, if you take one out, effectiveness of other will be reduced to half, batmen get a breather quite often.
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No need to justify any reason for most of the Indian fans and some seasonal Pakistani fans. They will never give him credit.
 
Syed1 said:
Despite all those catchers Amir knew his best course of action is to get the batsmen bowled or lbw. :amir2
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:))

Amir has learned his lesson

yasir said:
To be fair Captain is only have that field after they already are at 3/3, I bet you he did not started with that field, its Misbah we are talking about ;-)
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Kaptaan knows when to attack.

Sign of a thinking Kaptaan :mv
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Zero.
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How many have Rahat, Imran, Sohail and Wahab won?

If you are going to deride someone atleast give him a level playing field against his competition. This mindless criticism of one bowler really ticks me off. As if we have Wasims and Waqars toiling away in domestic and evil ol' Amir is preventing them from entering the side.

Amir is the best pacer we have at the moment. You would know that if you actually watched the matches and not just focused on the wickets column on cricinfo.
 
TalhaSyed said:
Yup - had a great bowling spelling at the end of the day today.

Was swinging the ball a bit which was great to see.

InshAllah - as you said - hope he can build on this and get some rythym back.

On a side not - I love Kaptaan Misbah's attacking field :misbah

335grwp.png
Click to expand...

What a sight, that's what I want to see from Amir my dil is very khush. Notice how certain posters are putting it down to the conditions alone but I put that down to human mind of suck folk not being able to comprehend fluid mechanics of swing bowling and the elements required to achieve it. But mA he did well and this will be a major confidence boost and tbh that field setting is quiet the sight but I bet you by the time the series begins the bookies will start offering odds on pakistan players and catches being dropped
 
shaz619 said:
What a sight, that's what I want to see from Amir my dil is very khush. Notice how certain posters are putting it down to the conditions alone but I put that down to human mind of suck folk not being able to comprehend fluid mechanics of swing bowling and the elements required to achieve it. But mA he did well and this will be a major confidence boost and tbh that field setting is quiet the sight but I bet you by the time the series begins the bookies will start offering odds on pakistan players and catches being dropped
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Ah yes the human mind is a wonderful thing as we concluded on the other thread haha

The guy bowled superbly MashAllah and credit to him. Lets hope he can keep it going InshAllah.

He just needs to keep hitting the stumps or the pads and take the fielders out the equation.
 
Amir will rise to the occasion eventually because he has the talent, temperament and hunger of a fast bowler who wants to be at the top. However, he needs an intelligent bowling partner in Asif to complement him. With Sohail, Rahat and Imran there's no hope.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
If Mohammad Amir does not perform at optimum levels in Australia than drop him for the time being.

Yes since his comeback he has not given match winning performances.

Personally I expect him to bounce back now. Pink Ball Test might would be the best opputunity for him. But even if he performs it remains to be seen whether he can back those numbers with Red ball in Day matches on flatter surfaces or not ?

For a change it would be good if fielders take some catches of his bowling.


Wrt Tabish Khan he needs a call for next Pakistan Cricket team Camp at NCA. His future should be decided than taking input of Misbah, Azhar, Mudassar & Arthur. His performances at Age 30 on Pakistan A tour of SL (2015) should be taken in account aswell.

Junaid has done enough to stake a claim in Limited overs Cricket. I am liking his upright seam position (revival) and fast medium pace. I just hope that his action is under 15 degrees limit. He is border line for me.

Regarding Test comeback Junaid needs Fc Cricket at his back. His Fc record in last 3 years is Worst. Very very Poor. Even this year He was benched by Wapda in few matches and rightly so.
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TalentSpotterPk said:
Though the CAXI seams very week but looks like Amir is turning it around as expected. Pink Ball, Daynight swinging conditions.

Hope he has a good Test Series. His pace will be 7-10 kph higher on Aussie speed guns compared to NZ speed guns.
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Last 3 and a half innings remaining. Still my concerns about Amir exist. He hasn't turned it around yet.


Now Junaids Limited overs comeback should be ruled out aswell with terrible figures again. Averaging 48 with a Strile Rate of 60 plus. Should not be recalled at all in any format as of now.
 
Mohammad Amir's lack of bouncers

He is very one dimensional in the sense he keeps bowling at a good length or short of a good length or he will pitch the ball up. I have never seen him try to bounce the batsman out and in this age and era being one dimensional is not going to cut it.

That ability to move the ball away from the right hander is another issue, but clearly Junaid Khan is being dealt with injustice if Amir is getting a free ride while he is sitting back home. Junaid atleast could take wickets when needed, highly under rated bowler.
 
Mohammad Amir beat the bat 20+ times in 14 overs, no wickets

That's what you call bad luck
 
Not really, in this modern format, you have to have the ability to blast the batsman out rather than relying on luck. The aussies vary of Amir's reputation were being very careful against him and riding the storm, waiting for the ball to get older. At the end of the day Amir has no wickets to his name and that is what matters.

Amir is a very one dimensional bowler. When the batsmen are handling him well, he does not have a plan B, C. I have never seen him bounce a batsman out. If someone is playing you carefully on off stump, letting go off your deliveries outside off stump and defending your deliveries on the stumps or working it on the on side, are you going to do the same thing again and again.

How about trying to bounce the batsman, put him on the back foot, disturb his foot work? This off stump stuff only works on pitches which are truly aiding the bowler.

Wahab in comparison inspite of his erraticness was trying to make things happen and he was the only bowler who was creating wicket taking chances.
 
He bowled well

Not sure what's with the criticism.. just a lazy attempt to gauge the performance by reading decimals?
 
Mamoon said:
So what is his hypothetical average and bowling figures when we factor in the dropped catches and bad luck.
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What is Starc's performance in this test?


#best fast bowler
 
Junaid is done and dusted. Right now he is an inferior version of Amir.
 
Mamoon said:
Starc's poor performance cannot be used to deflect attention from Amir because the latter is not at his level.
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Yeah I hope Amir never reaches the level Starc achieved in this test.
 
Isn't Junaid averaging around 50 with the ball in the ongoing One Day cup?
 
Junaid's performance hasn't been good enough. Also BPL performance shouldn't be grounds for selection in the longest format.


Asif should be selected immediately..
 
AlphaFighter said:
Why not, Amir was recalled on the basis of his BPL performance as well. Can't have double standards.
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Amir played in the 2015 QEA Trophy and took 16 wickets at 14.87 so that's untrue.

Has Junaid produced any FC performances on a similar level or we are seriously considering recalling players on the basis of T20 leagues ?
 
Mamoon said:
Starc's poor performance cannot be used to deflect attention from Amir because the latter is not at his level.
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It can be when posters display an inferior complex by disregarding the performances of the team they support whilst overrating the Big 3, it's almost as if the British Raj never left along with all the uncle toms who supported the empires tyranny.
 
shaz619 said:
It can be when posters display an inferior complex by disregarding the performances of the team they support whilst overrating the Big 3, it's almost as if the British Raj never left along with all the uncle toms who supported the empires tyranny.
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Don't look too much into it, it's a simple fact that Amir is not at Starc's level at the moment.

Pace, swing, wicket-taking ability, fitness, impact etc., Starc is ahead in all departments.
 
Mamoon said:
Don't look too much into it, it's a simple fact that Amir is not at Starc's level at the moment.

Pace, swing, wicket-taking ability, fitness, impact etc., Starc is ahead in all departments.
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Well at the moment in this Test Amir has bowled far far better
 
Mamoon said:
Anyone can be better than anyone at any specific moment, which proves and means nothing.
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Exactly and it doesn't mean that the new "talent" will be able to do anything so it proves nothing.
 
Amir had barely played any matches to be labelled as a match-winner. He's a young bowler starting to find his feet again. Moin should stop making things up.
 
it takes a special kind of idiot to deny Amir deserved 5 wickets this innings with the number of edges and beaten and regardless of wickets he has been the best bowler.
 
PennOne said:
it takes a special kind of idiot to deny Amir deserved 5 wickets this innings with the number of edges and beaten and regardless of wickets he has been the best bowler.
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LMAO, really? Really? Bhuvi does that all day and still picks wickets. Srinath made a career out of batsmen playing and missing without taking a wicket. Man if you count these things then India would have won many series in Australia by making batsmen play and miss. In Australia, to take wickets you have to bowl at a certain length otherwise batsmen can play and miss all day with no harm because of the bounce

All the other Pak bowlers took 2 wickets each on the same wicket but somehow Amir is the best as he "looked" great
 
Indiafan said:
LMAO, really? Really? Bhuvi does that all day and still picks wickets. Srinath made a career out of batsmen playing and missing without taking a wicket. Man if you count these things then India would have won many series in Australia by making batsmen play and miss. In Australia, to take wickets you have to bowl at a certain length otherwise batsmen can play and miss all day with no harm because of the bounce

All the other Pak bowlers took 2 wickets each on the same wicket but somehow Amir is the best as he "looked" great
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It's not about 'looking' great. Wahab looked more threatening when he was in the zone during a couple of his spells.

However, Amir was constantly at the batsmen and didn't really bowl a bad spell. The Aussie commentators all said he was the pick of the bowlers, i.e. he troubled the batsmen the most.
 
Abdullah719 said:
It's not about 'looking' great. Wahab looked more threatening when he was in the zone during a couple of his spells.

However, Amir was constantly at the batsmen and didn't really bowl a bad spell. The Aussie commentators all said he was the pick of the bowlers, i.e. he troubled the batsmen the most.
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But this is like a batsman playing some amazing shots straight to the fielder for many overs and then getting out under 20. People will praise him for one match, one series. But if the same thing is happening every series or new excuses are coming every match (from drop catches to beating bat) and he is continue being "unlucky" people will give up
 
I think it's naive to narrow down a good bowling performance in Australia to just wickets. Sohail, Yasir and Wahab were poor for most of their spells. Especially Wahab. Yet they all picked up wickets, which on the scorecard obviously looks good but they cost Pakistan far too many runs and provided very little pressure, making the wickets almost meaningless.

Amir tied down every batsman he faced right from the off and kept scoring options minimal. It's a common theme with him that he bowls well, keeps on beating the bat but also keeps on missing the edge by a whisker over and over again. It's frustrating but it's clear by using our eyes and watching this match live, that he was Pakistan's best bowler in this Australian innings. It's a shame there wasn't any backing up on the other end. I feel Renshaw's dismissal was largely off the back of Amir's (and partly Sohail's) tight bowling.

To say he deserved a five wicket haul though is obviously a gross exaggeration. He certainly deserved more reward for how well he bowled though.
 
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hass said:
I think it's naive to narrow down a good bowling performance in Australia to just wickets. Sohail, Yasir and Wahab were poor for most of their spells. Especially Wahab. Yet they all picked up wickets, which on the scorecard obviously looks good but they cost Pakistan far too many runs and provided very little pressure, making the wickets almost meaningless.

Amir tied down every batsman he faced right from the off and kept scoring options minimal. It's a common theme with him that he bowls well, keeps on beating the bat but also keeps on missing the edge by a whisker over and over again. It's frustrating but it's clear by using our eyes and watching this match live, that he was Pakistan's best bowler in this Australian innings. It's a shame there wasn't any backing up on the other end. I feel Renshaw's dismissal was largely off the back of Amir's (and partly Sohail's) tight bowling.

To say he deserved a five wicket haul though is obviously a gross exaggeration. He certainly deserved more reward for how well he bowled though.
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I dont think we need to poop on the other bowlers to make aamir look good by comparison. I agree with you he bowled well enough, he just didnt pitch it up enough.
 
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With aamer consistently being ineffectiveness should he be dropped

I know he has many dropped chances against him but still he has really been ineffective as a bowler in tests for too many tests. Should we keep playing him on his potential or drop him to make him work on his bowling.
Considering the fact that 8 of the 10 test he has played have been in Eng, Nz and Aus he doesnt even have the excuse of playing on really dead tracks of UAE.
All our other fast bowlers all have a better strike rates and avgs than him over the same period.
I know he has saved us a time or two with his batting but he is partly responsible because of his ineffectiveness as a bowler we have needed his batting in the first place.

Capture.jpg
 
He's been our best bowler in this test and you want to drop him?
 
No one is bigger than the game. If the likes of Rahat, Wahab, Imran Khan, Sohail Khan can be benched mercilessly, so should he.
 
Big Mac said:
He's been our best bowler in this test and you want to drop him?
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LMAO how is someone a best bowler when he takes 0 wickets when opposition scores 624 for 9? For looking good with the new ball?
 
Amir doesn't deserve a place in any of the current Asian teams,Pakistan should give him a strong message to him by dropping him.I am sure there are better bowlers in the domestics.
 
Just see Starc bowl, thats how you bowl match winning spells
 
Needs to be dropped and sent back to the NCA so that he can sort out his technical issues. Asif will be there too so If he doesn't have any grudge left I think it will be beneficial for him.
 
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