Mohammad Amir retires from International cricket

[YousafTheBeast]

Non of them fixed matches. Quite a lot of players have been found tampering the ball till date. All of them were fined and banned for a few matches, and they were allowed to return. But credit to CA that they banned those players for a year to set an example.

Which match fixer from any other team has ever made a come back?

The post I was replying to didn’t mention ‘fixing’, I was referring to the ‘disgraceful cricketers’ comment.

Herschelle Gibbs from South Africa?

Besides, majority of the cricketers that we’re convicted of spot/match fixing were approaching the end of their careers, Amir’s career had just started.

Had Amir been an experienced player in the side then I would hold him accountable, but that’s not the case and I can’t hold him accountable.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Are you really comparing ball tampering to Match fixing and selling your own country out ? pathetic lol

“I can’t think of another team that would welcome a disgraceful cricketer” - this is what you had posted. Where does it mention fixing?

Is ball tampering not disgraceful? Did Mohammad Amir bowling a couple of no-balls have an effect on the result of the game?

There’s a difference between spot fixing and match fixing

 

[FreePalestine]

Yup, If 99% of the posters came from the same background as Amir did then of course they would have. Was Amir ever educated?

I don’t blame Amir one bit for the spot fixing, I blame the agent, the captain and PCB.

Given Pakistan’s history of fixing, PCB should’ve taken extra care of the youngest player in the team on an away tour. Amir is their responsibility. Even Shahid Aftidi had warned PCB prior to the fixing, but they didn’t take it seriously.

If 99% of posters came from the pind and had no education, they would’ve done the same. 100% sure of that.

That is a very simplistic view of human nature. And incorrect. And probably quite a patronizing view of poor people, even if your heart is in the right place.

Poverty doesn’t mean that poor people don’t have consciences or a capacity to tell the difference between right and wrong. All the things you say about the extenuating circumstances that lessened Amir’s guilt do not absolve him completely from blame at all. He was 18, not 6 years old. He knew the difference between right and wrong like most functioning adults, poor or rich. And he chose to do the wrong thing to make some money, when he had the world at his feet and would have made enough money anyway.

Bottom line is that not all poor people believe that money overrides their morals or conscience and to think otherwise is to have a very condescending idea of poor people’s capacity for moral agency.

I know people from very, very poor backgrounds in Pakistan, and they do not simply forget all their values when offered money, or sell their integrity to impress richer peers. In fact, many times they have more integrity than people from better backgrounds. Morality is not solely or even mainly the provenance of the rich.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

That is a very simplistic view of human nature. And incorrect. And probably quite a patronizing view of poor people, even if your heart is in the right place.

Poverty doesn’t mean that poor people don’t have consciences or a capacity to tell the difference between right and wrong. All the things you say about the extenuating circumstances that lessened Amir’s guilt do not absolve him completely from blame at all. He was 18, not 6 years old. He knew the difference between right and wrong like most functioning adults, poor or rich. And he chose to do the wrong thing to make some money, when he had the world at his feet and would have made enough money anyway.

Bottom line is that not all poor people believe that money overrides their morals or conscience and to think otherwise is to have a very condescending idea of poor people’s capacity for moral agency.

I know people from very, very poor backgrounds in Pakistan, and they do not simply forget all their values when offered money, or sell their integrity to impress richer peers. In fact, many times they have more integrity than people from better backgrounds. Morality is not solely or even mainly the provenance of the rich.

I’m not saying all poor people in Pakistan don’t have the conscience or capacity to tell the difference between right and right, I’m saying most 17 year olds in Pakistan who’ve come from poverty, they are more vulnerable than Pakistanis who come from middle class and upper class families.

Ultimately, the PCB is at fault for ignoring the warning signs during the Aus series. They could’ve prevented it but their “kuch ni hunda” attitude cost them.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

With Pakistan losing 2-0 to NZ in the Test series, it’ll be the final nail in the coffin for this management.

And a return for Muhammad Amir who has just responded to Hafeez, saying that he only said he won’t play under current management.

Losing 2-0 will truly be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Marshland]

Hehe, only in Pakistan do match fixers get welcomed back with open arms.

This fixer in question has hardly pulled up any trees since his comeback half a decade ago.

 

[Babbar]

What’s this fascination for a cheat, convicted criminal, greedy, weak-willed, unpatriotic, lazy, fraud, over-the-hill trundler?

It’s like some Pakistani fans have a death wish!

 

[Darkrai]

Hehe, only in Pakistan do match fixers get welcomed back with open arms.

This fixer in question has hardly pulled up any trees since his comeback half a decade ago.

In Pakistan, the fixers get the support that even honest players with better records do not get. And so we continue to produce multiple fixers every few years.

The fans, media, the team itself, everything about Pakistan cricket is in shambles, whether it's fixing, age-fudging, or other nonsense-absolutely rotten to the core.

It's fitting that we continue to lose some of our better players to fixing. It is everything that we deserve, and I'm sure more humiliation awaits us in the future.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

In Pakistan, the fixers get the support that even honest players with better records do not get. And so we continue to produce multiple fixers every few years.

The fans, media, the team itself, everything about Pakistan cricket is in shambles, whether it's fixing, age-fudging, or other nonsense-absolutely rotten to the core.

It's fitting that we continue to lose some of our better players to fixing. It is everything that we deserve, and I'm sure more humiliation awaits us in the future.

It’s very scary. We have a culture aimed at aiding and abetting the guilty while murdering the innocent.

I am a big fan of Amir’s contributions in two ICC finals for our country, but glorifying him and calling him a victim of the PCB is not the way to go.

Similarly, there is no bigger fan of Asif than myself and I loved both Saleem Malik and Salman Butt’s abilities as batsman - I have absolute disgust with the way they sold out their country.

This hero worship of criminals needs to end. I am not opposed to them rehabilitating themselves and becoming good citizens of society again, and in fact enjoy Butt’s analyses these days despite disliking his appointment as domestic commentator.

The truth is, we as a nation are too forgiving, and perhaps utilitarian in the sense where we are willing to overlook acts that promote disunity because we are big fans (look no further than Justice Qayyum’s apologetic attitude towards Wasim Akram).

It’s deeply ingrained in our culture - we continuously re elect the PMLN and PPP, because we believe there is no better option. Similarly, there is no better option than Sharjeel Khan - even despite middling performances he is still a hotter prospect for the future at the age of 30 than a host of 20 year olds with clean slates.

That’s the issue, one we need to realize is inherent to the fabric of our social psychology. Pakistanis are simply not ruthless when it comes to these things.

 

[Darkrai]

It’s very scary. We have a culture aimed at aiding and abetting the guilty while murdering the innocent.

I am a big fan of Amir’s contributions in two ICC finals for our country, but glorifying him and calling him a victim of the PCB is not the way to go.

Similarly, there is no bigger fan of Asif than myself and I loved both Saleem Malik and Salman Butt’s abilities as batsman - I have absolute disgust with the way they sold out their country.

This hero worship of criminals needs to end. I am not opposed to them rehabilitating themselves and becoming good citizens of society again, and in fact enjoy Butt’s analyses these days despite disliking his appointment as domestic commentator.

The truth is, we as a nation are too forgiving, and perhaps utilitarian in the sense where we are willing to overlook acts that promote disunity because we are big fans (look no further than Justice Qayyum’s apologetic attitude towards Wasim Akram).

It’s deeply ingrained in our culture - we continuously re elect the PMLN and PPP, because we believe there is no better option. Similarly, there is no better option than Sharjeel Khan - even despite middling performances he is still a hotter prospect for the future at the age of 30 than a host of 20 year olds with clean slates.

That’s the issue, one we need to realize is inherent to the fabric of our social psychology. Pakistanis are simply not ruthless when it comes to these things.

Agree.

I'm all for forgiveness and second chances but at some point, we need to recognize that this is damaging our country and individual players. I'm sure if given a second chance at life, Amir, Asif, and Butt would choose a different path. They ended up not only damaging their country's reputation but also their potentially great cricketing careers. It's best for our upcoming players if we implement harsher punishments for fixing and stop promoting those who have committed such acts.

Age-fudging has also become a worrying issue. I was surprised to learn that majority of my cousins and other relatives are also involved in this. We, as Muslims, promote the practice of our religion, especially speaking the truth is a big aspect, yet we have no issue committing fraud like age-fudging, a lie that remains with you your whole life.

It's time we look at the bigger picture and realize what needs to be done for the betterment of our cricket and the country as a whole.

 

[Titan24]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">u are wrong brother I never said I don't want to represent Pakistan I said I can't play for Pakistan with this management u doing good for Pakistan right now so enjoy that </p>— Mohammad Amir (@iamamirofficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/iamamirofficial/status/1342844830788046849?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[sshakir411]

This guy hasn’t even been half as good as he was. Yes, pcb and Pakistan fans invested a lot to bring him back but he may just not be worth it.

 

[observer1]

In my opinion, sandpapering the ball is far worse than spot fixing.

The reality is, Amir tore England apart that series and took a few quid to bowl a few no-balls. He only put his OWN team at a slight disadvantage. He was banned and rightfully so.

Smith n Co actively put their opponents at a massive disadvantage by CHEATING. No different that using drugs/PEDs to get an unfair disadvantage.

Difference is CA backed its players like it did with Waugh and Warne when they were caught dealing with Indian bookies.

He served his time of 5 years. End of discussion.

That said, Amir needs to stop being emotional and realise PCB are being professional. If you're going to pick and choose what formats to play at your peak, the PCB has to deal with potentially others following the same route.

PCB would love to have Amir in the squad, but if you're going to down the route he did. Expect to be in a rock and hard place.

 

[b.lesner]

If this Happened in SENA and India they would sack whole management rather than players e.g Mickey Arthur by Australia , Anil kumble etc

 

[Indiafan]

In my opinion, sandpapering the ball is far worse than spot fixing.

The reality is, Amir tore England apart that series and took a few quid to bowl a few no-balls. He only put his OWN team at a slight disadvantage. He was banned and rightfully so.

Smith n Co actively put their opponents at a massive disadvantage by CHEATING. No different that using drugs/PEDs to get an unfair disadvantage.

Difference is CA backed its players like it did with Waugh and Warne when they were caught dealing with Indian bookies.

He served his time of 5 years. End of discussion.

That said, Amir needs to stop being emotional and realise PCB are being professional. If you're going to pick and choose what formats to play at your peak, the PCB has to deal with potentially others following the same route.

PCB would love to have Amir in the squad, but if you're going to down the route he did. Expect to be in a rock and hard place.

How is fixing to win for your own country worse than betraying your country and its people by playing for a fixer? How does it make any sense?

 

[Indiafan]

If this Happened in SENA and India they would sack whole management rather than players e.g Mickey Arthur by Australia , Anil kumble etc

None of them would go back to a convicted fixer who was also jailed

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

If this Happened in SENA and India they would sack whole management rather than players e.g Mickey Arthur by Australia , Anil kumble etc

Nah man in India as well politicians and power brokers rule the roost. Dhoni was very very very close to getting sacked after 8-0 loss in England and Australia. Vengsarkar had decided and selectors also agreed. Srini mama intervened.
The difference is there is lot of money involved now and these politicians want the team to do well as more wins means more money in the pie for them.
So the keep players happy by mostly staying away from international teams cricket decisions and want the team to win, and off course pay them good salaries.
In Pakistan case I think top management is not sharing the pie appropriately.

 

[b.lesner]

None of them would go back to a convicted fixer who was also jailed

I was against Amir's comeback since day 1 , it demoralized a complete breed of pace attack since 2016 many of whom left cricket.

But no he is in the team won champions Trophy now this isn't first time Waqar did it he did same with M Yousuf, A Razzaq, Shoaib Akhtar, Abdul Rehman, Tanvir Ahmed. Also had fught with Afridi on many occasion

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Amir has one job now, focus on the PSL.

There’s no way Andy Flower can ignore Amir if he’s the bowler of the tournament.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A couple of County teams have expressed an interest in signing Mohammad Amir for this season's T20 Blast. Amir will be available for the tournament after the completion of the Pakistan Super League <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/AzNmr39e6A">pic.twitter.com/AzNmr39e6A</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1378998894068109313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2021</a></blockquote>
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[AAli98]

Come back Amir with ur 70mph cutters all is forgiven!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A couple of County teams have expressed an interest in signing Mohammad Amir for this season's T20 Blast. Amir will be available for the tournament after the completion of the Pakistan Super League <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/AzNmr39e6A">pic.twitter.com/AzNmr39e6A</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1378998894068109313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So he's available to play county cricket but not domestic? What an entitled brat. I hope I never have to see him in a Pakistan jersey again.

 

[topspin]

Like him or hate him, he is still far superior to Rauf and Hasnain.

He will make a u-turn on his retirement but only until Misbah and Waqar are gone. The duo should have been sacked a long time ago.

 

[Ryw]

So he's available to play county cricket but not domestic? What an entitled brat. I hope I never have to see him in a Pakistan jersey again.

He has retired from Test and ODI s, he can do whatever he wants,its PCB s fault that they cant manage players.

 

[Varun]

He has retired from Test and ODI s, he can do whatever he wants,its PCB s fault that they cant manage players.

They managed him spectacularly when they gave him an underserved re-entry to international cricket after what he did.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He has retired from Test and ODI s, he can do whatever he wants,its PCB s fault that they cant manage players.

PCB didn't put a gun to his head and ask him to retire. His attitude has always been rotten and he is actually deluded enough to think that Pakistan are dying to bring him back. A player who has wronged Pakistan cricket so deeply and spent such a long time being out of form should never have gotten the chances he got.

He will be completely forgotten once a new pace sensation bursts onto the scene. And believe me it will happen. Besides Pakistan shouldn't care about a white-ball specialist who was never going to play the most important format of all anyway.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

They managed him spectacularly when they gave him an underserved re-entry to international cricket after what he did.

Not to mention the fact that he was basically out of form from both formats for nearly 2 years. Yet he was still given chances and this is how he repays the board's faith.

 

[Varun]

PCB didn't put a gun to his head and ask him to retire. His attitude has always been rotten and he is actually deluded enough to think that Pakistan are dying to bring him back. A player who has wronged Pakistan cricket so deeply and spent such a long time being out of form should never have gotten the chances he got.

True this.

He retired expecting a national uproar and clamour for him to be brought back, complete with his desert T10 statistics to throw on a YouTube video the moment Pakistan lost a game.

The studied silence by Misbah and co. toward this age-fudging, spot-fixing fraud is a brilliant move, and ensures that he will slowly fade into the dustbin of history.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

PCB didn't put a gun to his head and ask him to retire. His attitude has always been rotten and he is actually deluded enough to think that Pakistan are dying to bring him back. A player who has wronged Pakistan cricket so deeply and spent such a long time being out of form should never have gotten the chances he got.

He will be completely forgotten once a new pace sensation bursts onto the scene. And believe me it will happen. Besides Pakistan shouldn't care about a white-ball specialist who was never going to play the most important format of all anyway.

“once a new pace sensation bursts onto the scene” - AHAHAHAHJAHAJJAHAH.

Another 17 year old kids bowling video going viral and then being selected for the national team 2 months later for an away tour to Australia just because he bowls 85+

That’s our standards right now.

Pakistan cricket is desperate for quick bowlers, hence why bowlers in their late 30’s and late 20’s are being debuted in the past 2 years.

Pakistan has only one decent bowler in the SA tour right now, Shaheen Afridi. Compare that to SA, they have Nokia, Rabada, Ngidi and probably more.

When you’re struggling to find decent bowlers, the last thing you need is one of your most experienced bowlers retiring at the peak of his career.

 

[Indiafan]

He has retired from Test and ODI s, he can do whatever he wants,its PCB s fault that they cant manage players.

PCB brought him back after fixing. They then brought him back right into the national team without question. Then even with this retirement drama, PCB has never ever called him out

I sometimes think Amir is really really lucky to be born where he was. Neither BCCI nor the Indian fans would never ever forgive what he had done. An Indian player spot fixing in international team would never play in international again. And then if he had retired, all fans would be abusing him like no tomorrow

I sometimes find it weird that some Pak fans lacks any self respect. Indian fans would never forgive someone who fixed in national colors and did all this retirement drama even if he had won 10 world cups for India. We would rather lose every single match we play than play with such a player in our team

 

[Concerned]

Amir is money driven, he sold his country out. I can only assume he did it many times but was only caught once.

By retiring, he will actively play in as many leagues around the world to maximise his income.

He will perform in these leagues given he is still a decent player, but these performances should not be used as an excuse to fast track him back into the team under whatever management.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

“once a new pace sensation bursts onto the scene” - AHAHAHAHJAHAJJAHAH.

Another 17 year old kids bowling video going viral and then being selected for the national team 2 months later for an away tour to Australia just because he bowls 85+

That’s our standards right now.

Pakistan cricket is desperate for quick bowlers, hence why bowlers in their late 30’s and late 20’s are being debuted in the past 2 years.

Pakistan has only one decent bowler in the SA tour right now, Shaheen Afridi. Compare that to SA, they have Nokia, Rabada, Ngidi and probably more.

When you’re struggling to find decent bowlers, the last thing you need is one of your most experienced bowlers retiring at the peak of his career.

You can keep laughing all you want but nobody could care less about that arrogant medium pacer coming back into the side. Pakistan are on the verge of moving on. And once they do his career will be confined to the dustbin of history.

For a guy who already destroyed his career by cheating his country he should have cherished every chance he got to play for Pakistan. Instead all he did was make excuses for not performing. In the last 5 years he has given 2-3 performances of note (CT Final, England Test Series and World Cup) among a mountain of failures.

Also what peak? He is not one tenth the bowler he was before getting banned. He cant play test matches, he has no pace and we're supposed to keep him around instead of building new players who will actually play all 3 formats? Don't think so.

I'm just glad Misbah had the gall to throw him out and then completely ignore him once he went on his tirade. I would take a young and inexperienced pacer who wants to play for Pakistan over an entitled brat like Amir who buys into his own hype way too much.

And if you find the idea of a young pacer bursting onto the scene funny than clearly you haven't been watching cricket for very long. It's one thing Pakistan basically specializes at.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

PCB brought him back after fixing. They then brought him back right into the national team without question. Then even with this retirement drama, PCB has never ever called him out

I sometimes think Amir is really really lucky to be born where he was. Neither BCCI nor the Indian fans would never ever forgive what he had done. An Indian player spot fixing in international team would never play in international again. And then if he had retired, all fans would be abusing him like no tomorrow

I sometimes find it weird that some Pak fans lacks any self respect. Indian fans would never forgive someone who fixed in national colors and did all this retirement drama even if he had won 10 world cups for India. We would rather lose every single match we play than play with such a player in our team

This.

I doubt Amir would have gotten as many chances (or any at all) if he was playing for any other country.

Unfortunately when you start overlooking things like the character and morals than you begin compromising on the integrity of the team. Players in Pakistan know they can do match-fixing and still come back into the team because all it will do is take a few years off their career. And PCB proves them right by handing players like Sharjeel minor bans and then bringing them back.

 

[Abid Z]

They managed him spectacularly when they gave him an underserved re-entry to international cricket after what he did.

They ground him into the dust by over bowling him. His workload could have been managed better. Look at how much SSA is bowling. It won’t be long before he thinks of retirement too. Pak need to get a larger squad of fast bowlers and rotate them according to formats and grounds.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

You can keep laughing all you want but nobody could care less about that arrogant medium pacer coming back into the side. Pakistan are on the verge of moving on. And once they do his career will be confined to the dustbin of history.

For a guy who already destroyed his career by cheating his country he should have cherished every chance he got to play for Pakistan. Instead all he did was make excuses for not performing. In the last 5 years he has given 2-3 performances of note (CT Final, England Test Series and World Cup) among a mountain of failures.

Also what peak? He is not one tenth the bowler he was before getting banned. He cant play test matches, he has no pace and we're supposed to keep him around instead of building new players who will actually play all 3 formats? Don't think so.

I'm just glad Misbah had the gall to throw him out and then completely ignore him once he went on his tirade. I would take a young and inexperienced pacer who wants to play for Pakistan over an entitled brat like Amir who buys into his own hype way too much.

And if you find the idea of a young pacer bursting onto the scene funny than clearly you haven't been watching cricket for very long. It's one thing Pakistan basically specializes at.

Yes, Pakistan has already moved on, and since Amir’s retirement they’ve selected “NEW PACE SENSATIONS” in 36 year old Tabish Khan, 27 year old tape ball player with no domestic experience, a 16 year old in Naseem Shah whose been hammered in every away tour and was selected because of his “pace”, which he has now lost.

Pakistan has gained nothing from Amir’s retirement, I dunno how hard that is to grasp. Attitude ko goli maro, no one gives two craps if a player has attitude issues, literally every single bowler that’s represented Pakistan has had attitude problems.

Sometimes you need to be realistic, if Pakistan had bowlers that could compete with Amir then I’d be the first to wave goodbye to Amir, but the truth is Pakistan lacks quality pace bowlers.

Excluding Shaheen and Hassan Ali, when was the last time you saw any of our pace bowlers picking up genuine wickets, not wickets that were given to them by the batsmen trying to hit them out the park every ball after a 100 run partnership, but by planning and precision.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes, Pakistan has already moved on, and since Amir’s retirement they’ve selected “NEW PACE SENSATIONS” in 36 year old Tabish Khan, 27 year old tape ball player with no domestic experience, a 16 year old in Naseem Shah whose been hammered in every away tour and was selected because of his “pace”, which he has now lost.

Pakistan has gained nothing from AmirÂ’s retirement, I dunno how hard that is to grasp. Attitude ko goli maro, no one gives two craps if a player has attitude issues, literally every single bowler thatÂ’s represented Pakistan has had attitude problems.

Sometimes you need to be realistic, if Pakistan had bowlers that could compete with Amir then IÂ’d be the first to wave goodbye to Amir, but the truth is Pakistan lacks quality pace bowlers.

Excluding Shaheen and Hassan Ali, when was the last time you saw any of our pace bowlers picking up genuine wickets, not wickets that were given to them by the batsmen trying to hit them out the park every ball after a 100 run partnership, but by planning and precision.

Quite ridiculous that you are reading the eulogy of two players that have just started their careers. If that is your level of patience than maybe you should stick to T10.

Oh really? And what did Pakistan gain from Amir playing? He can't play test matches because his body can't handle it. He spent the better part of 5 years struggling in ODIs where he couldn't buy a wicket if his life depended on it. The only time he shined was at the World Cup where the wickets offered some help. Well guess what? Wickets in pretty much every part of the world these days are flat. Its only in ICC tournaments that the ICC takes over the duty of preparing wickets. So exactly what are you getting so excited for? A bowler like him will get smashed on flat wickets just like he has been for the last 5 years because he has no pace and only relies on cutters and line and length.

Haris Rauf has pace, he can bowl yorkers. He has the two most necessary tools to be an effective limited-overs fast-bowler these days that can be groomed and refined over time.

It's not caring about attitude of players that has gotten us here in the first place. If you think none of these things matter than clearly you're not someone who pays alot of attention.

And I don't care if it takes 5 or 10 years. I don't care how many matches we lose I would take building new stars over bringing back someone like Amir any day; a limited bowler with limited capabilities, who is high maintenance, can't even play all 3 formats and whose playing days are numbered as it is.

 

[nextover666666]

PCB brought him back after fixing. They then brought him back right into the national team without question. Then even with this retirement drama, PCB has never ever called him out

I sometimes think Amir is really really lucky to be born where he was. Neither BCCI nor the Indian fans would never ever forgive what he had done. An Indian player spot fixing in international team would never play in international again. And then if he had retired, all fans would be abusing him like no tomorrow

I sometimes find it weird that some Pak fans lacks any self respect. Indian fans would never forgive someone who fixed in national colors and did all this retirement drama even if he had won 10 world cups for India. We would rather lose every single match we play than play with such a player in our team

Pakistani are taught to forgive i guess we have big hearts

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Quite ridiculous that you are reading the eulogy of two players that have just started their careers. If that is your level of patience than maybe you should stick to T10.

Oh really? And what did Pakistan gain from Amir playing? He can't play test matches because his body can't handle it. He spent the better part of 5 years struggling in ODIs where he couldn't buy a wicket if his life depended on it. The only time he shined was at the World Cup where the wickets offered some help. Well guess what? Wickets in pretty much every part of the world these days are flat. Its only in ICC tournaments that the ICC takes over the duty of preparing wickets. So exactly what are you getting so excited for? A bowler like him will get smashed on flat wickets just like he has been for the last 5 years because he has no pace and only relies on cutters and line and length.

Haris Rauf has pace, he can bowl yorkers. He has the two most necessary tools to be an effective limited-overs fast-bowler these days that can be groomed and refined over time.

It's not caring about attitude of players that has gotten us here in the first place. If you think none of these things matter than clearly you're not someone who pays alot of attention.

And I don't care if it takes 5 or 10 years. I don't care how many matches we lose I would take building new stars over bringing back someone like Amir any day; a limited bowler with limited capabilities, who is high maintenance, can't even play all 3 formats and whose playing days are numbered as it is.

If a bowler is being selected for the national team through a talent hunt at the age of 27 with little FC experience then you know there’s desperation for a pace bowler? Comprende?
I have nothing against Haris Rauf, but the way he got into the national team should concern us.

Rightly so, how do you expect a 27 year old playing every test match, every t20 and every odi in the same tour? PCB is known for its poor management of players, bowlers are not machines. There was period when after returning from his ban, Amir had bowled double the amount of overs in all formats compared to his colleagues, that also tells you how much Pakistan relied on Amir.

Your obsession with pace is unhealthy, it’s not the only asset that’s required to succeed at the international level, look at Bhuvneshwar Kumar in the recent series against England

If you’re ok with 10 year olds being picked for away tours against Aus, NZ and Eng then you can keep enjoying us getting hammered in every game. Don’t count on us winning many series’.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If a bowler is being selected for the national team through a talent hunt at the age of 27 with little FC experience then you know there’s desperation for a pace bowler? Comprende?
I have nothing against Haris Rauf, but the way he got into the national team should concern us.

Rightly so, how do you expect a 27 year old playing every test match, every t20 and every odi in the same tour? PCB is known for its poor management of players, bowlers are not machines. There was period when after returning from his ban, Amir had bowled double the amount of overs in all formats compared to his colleagues, that also tells you how much Pakistan relied on Amir.

Your obsession with pace is unhealthy, it’s not the only asset that’s required to succeed at the international level, look at Bhuvneshwar Kumar in the recent series against England

If you’re ok with 10 year olds being picked for away tours against Aus, NZ and Eng then you can keep enjoying us getting hammered in every game. Don’t count on us winning many series’.

What a ridiculous thing to say. It doesn't matter how a player is discovered as long as he is talented. In a country like Pakistan where there is no structure alot of fast-bowlers are discovered out of the blue. Do you think Wasim Akram came up through the school cricket system?

LOL now you're acting like you've seen the future. Maybe he'll be just be a good limited-overs bowler or maybe he will play all 3 formats and PCB will learn to manage his workload. Maybe he'll flop and never come back. I don't know. All I know is that Pakistan won't be taking a chance over a tainted, high-maintenance bowler way past his prime, who can't even take responsibility for his failures and is a characterless snake. And I would rather see how Rauf does rather than act like I have seen how his career ends after a handful of matches, which is what you seem to be doing.

LOL. You named one bowler. How many other fast-bowlers that lack pace are highly successful in ODIs? I'll name you some with pace who are: Bumrah, Nortje, Archer, Rabada, Wood, Boult, Starc, Cummins, Ferguson. Pace is not the only thing that matters but it is one of the most important things to have in your arsenal to be successful in ODIs these days.

You're absolutely deluded if you think one player can make such a huge difference. And Pakistan has a fairly decent nucleus of players, many of whom are just not being selected. With Haris Sohail and Imad back, Hasan Ali, Rauf, Shaheen, possibly Faheem as the pacers, and a decent spinner Pakistan can beat any side in the world. Pakistan will be winning many series without Amir and even if they don't I'm perfectly happy seeing us get hammered as long as we keep to trying to build new stars. Because here's the thing about those '10 year olds', they won't be 10 forever. And when you're building new stars you have to be in it for the long haul. Thankfully PCB have had enough of Amir's excuses as well. His biggest mistake was that he thought people would actually care if he doesn't play. But fact is he will be yesterdays news as soon as Shaheen or someone else starts doing really well. That's just the nature of the game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If a bowler is being selected for the national team through a talent hunt at the age of 27 with little FC experience then you know there’s desperation for a pace bowler? Comprende?
I have nothing against Haris Rauf, but the way he got into the national team should concern us.

Rightly so, how do you expect a 27 year old playing every test match, every t20 and every odi in the same tour? PCB is known for its poor management of players, bowlers are not machines. There was period when after returning from his ban, Amir had bowled double the amount of overs in all formats compared to his colleagues, that also tells you how much Pakistan relied on Amir.

Your obsession with pace is unhealthy, it’s not the only asset that’s required to succeed at the international level, look at Bhuvneshwar Kumar in the recent series against England ��

If you’re ok with 10 year olds being picked for away tours against Aus, NZ and Eng then you can keep enjoying us getting hammered in every game. Don’t count on us winning many series’.����

My feeling is that playing T20 leagues was his ultimate goal anyway. He's used the team to build some reputation and now he can happily go around the world playing leagues and making money. If he really cared about playing for Pakistan he would have taken his exclusion as a reason to prove a point and would have worked twice as hard to prove himself with performances in domestic. Instead he wanted special treatment. Fawad Alam can spend a lifetime fighting for a place back in the side but this guy retires and goes and plays T10? Sorry that's not how it works.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan miss his control and intelligence. Can’t stand tape ball bowlers like Rauf who are always on the cusp of getting smashed and losing Pakistan the game.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan miss his control and intelligence. Can’t stand tape ball bowlers like Rauf who are always on the cusp of getting smashed and losing Pakistan the game.

Agreed, the three frontline pacers needed in the team are Shaheen, Amir and Hasan Ali.

 

[Abid Z]

Quite ridiculous that you are reading the eulogy of two players that have just started their careers. If that is your level of patience than maybe you should stick to T10.

Oh really? And what did Pakistan gain from Amir playing? He can't play test matches because his body can't handle it. He spent the better part of 5 years struggling in ODIs where he couldn't buy a wicket if his life depended on it. The only time he shined was at the World Cup where the wickets offered some help. Well guess what? Wickets in pretty much every part of the world these days are flat. Its only in ICC tournaments that the ICC takes over the duty of preparing wickets. So exactly what are you getting so excited for? A bowler like him will get smashed on flat wickets just like he has been for the last 5 years because he has no pace and only relies on cutters and line and length.

Haris Rauf has pace, he can bowl yorkers. He has the two most necessary tools to be an effective limited-overs fast-bowler these days that can be groomed and refined over time.

It's not caring about attitude of players that has gotten us here in the first place. If you think none of these things matter than clearly you're not someone who pays alot of attention.

And I don't care if it takes 5 or 10 years. I don't care how many matches we lose I would take building new stars over bringing back someone like Amir any day; a limited bowler with limited capabilities, who is high maintenance, can't even play all 3 formats and whose playing days are numbered as it is.

Sorry mate this is not how you rebuild treams and polish talent. You need a line of top grade bowlers ..at least 5...(amir, hasan, abbas, shaheen..???) then you need to polish off and develop the next line husnain, Naseem, musa, Harris...) and then you have a few rookies in the nca. So you need at least 10 bowlers who are rotated and developed over a period of time.

The reason why our top tier is always compromised is because the lower tier isn’t ready and pushed up too soon so players break down or don’t learn fast enough.

Remember how long India kept with Srinath and Prasad, or England have with Broad and Anderson while the lower tiers are developed over a 3-5 year period. This is how long it takes.

Amir should have had his work load managed. SSA should also have his workload managed. Pak cricket is asking for trouble by grinding these bowlers down.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sorry mate this is not how you rebuild treams and polish talent. You need a line of top grade bowlers ..at least 5...(amir, hasan, abbas, shaheen..???) then you need to polish off and develop the next line husnain, Naseem, musa, Harris...) and then you have a few rookies in the nca. So you need at least 10 bowlers who are rotated and developed over a period of time.

The reason why our top tier is always compromised is because the lower tier isn’t ready and pushed up too soon so players break down or don’t learn fast enough.

Remember how long India kept with Srinath and Prasad, or England have with Broad and Anderson while the lower tiers are developed over a 3-5 year period. This is how long it takes.

Amir should have had his work load managed. SSA should also have his workload managed. Pak cricket is asking for trouble by grinding these bowlers down.

Its not an ideal situation but it is what it is. There is no choice but to make due with what we have. And whether you want to see Amir in the team or not, the fact is that he isn't bothered to try and get back into the team. He announced his retirement voluntarily and if he thinks he is going to get special treatment he is mistaken. It won't happen.

I'll reiterate its Amir, not Wasim or Waqar or Shoaib or even Asif. He is failed more than he's succeeded since he has returned and he is by no ways the bowler you all are making him out to be nor the one he was before the ban.

He's done and that's that. You can either choose to move on or continue living in the past.

 

[Thanos]

Let's assume
1. Amir played under Misbah-Yunus in domestic circuit when he was preparing himself after serving the Ban. Experienced how bad Misbah-Yunus are in management.

2. PCB picks Misbah - Yunus to manage national team before Amir was given another chance to represent national team.

I doubt Amir would have made condition that he'll play for Pak only after Misb-Yunus are replaced.

a . You can't change the system if you decide to run away from situation.
b. No player is bigger than game. And unfortunately Amir thinks he is.

 

[Saj]

More on Amir and why he retired coming soon

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Yes, Pakistan has already moved on, and since Amir’s retirement they’ve selected “NEW PACE SENSATIONS” in 36 year old Tabish Khan, 27 year old tape ball player with no domestic experience, a 16 year old in Naseem Shah whose been hammered in every away tour and was selected because of his “pace”, which he has now lost.

Pakistan has gained nothing from AmirÂ’s retirement, I dunno how hard that is to grasp. Attitude ko goli maro, no one gives two craps if a player has attitude issues, literally every single bowler thatÂ’s represented Pakistan has had attitude problems.

Sometimes you need to be realistic, if Pakistan had bowlers that could compete with Amir then IÂ’d be the first to wave goodbye to Amir, but the truth is Pakistan lacks quality pace bowlers.

Excluding Shaheen and Hassan Ali, when was the last time you saw any of our pace bowlers picking up genuine wickets, not wickets that were given to them by the batsmen trying to hit them out the park every ball after a 100 run partnership, but by planning and precision.

Dude ,Shaheen is already a better bowler than Aamir right now. The fact that you keep saying that Pakistan is not producing fast bowlers and then keep discounting Shaheen is delusional .

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Dude ,Shaheen is already a better bowler than Aamir right now. The fact that you keep saying that Pakistan is not producing fast bowlers and then keep discounting Shaheen is delusional .

Amir doesn’t get smashed in the last 5 overs, can’t say the same for Shaheen.

If Pakistan was producing fast bowlers then we wouldn’t keep going back to Wahab Riaz, the only bowler that’s capable of bowling 90mph+ reverse in the death overs.

If Pakistan was producing fast bowlers we wouldn’t have a 36 year old debuting on this tour.

If Pakistan was producing fast bowlers we wouldn’t have seen Amir returning from his ban.

 

[Abid Z]

Its not an ideal situation but it is what it is. There is no choice but to make due with what we have. And whether you want to see Amir in the team or not, the fact is that he isn't bothered to try and get back into the team. He announced his retirement voluntarily and if he thinks he is going to get special treatment he is mistaken. It won't happen.

I'll reiterate its Amir, not Wasim or Waqar or Shoaib or even Asif. He is failed more than he's succeeded since he has returned and he is by no ways the bowler you all are making him out to be nor the one he was before the ban.

He's done and that's that. You can either choose to move on or continue living in the past.

Yes but I think the point of the discussion is that there is a belief that amir has wronged the pcb, the team ,the fans. And I’m trying to point out he’s been ground into the dust and before him junaid.
Fast bowlers thrive in bowling partnerships.

junaid had a decent back up in Umar Gul or cheema..amir has only had scatterguns at the other end. So he has struggled and it’s a shame. It’s up to team management to find a way to get the best out of bowlers. “We are where we are” is no discussion at all ..”why are we where we are is The more important question. It’s because team management don’t know how to develop talent and manage players.

 

[Abid Z]

Dude ,Shaheen is already a better bowler than Aamir right now. The fact that you keep saying that Pakistan is not producing fast bowlers and then keep discounting Shaheen is delusional .

I think his point is that since 2010 when amir was banned no new bowler has emerged who has gone past 20 tests and looks like could go on.(20 tests -40 innings being a good benchmark for judging a player in all conditions) For a while Junaid flattered to deceive but alas .. and then Abbas but how unfortunate that he could never be another Asif.
I think his further point is that though SSA is A very good bowler just one good bowler emerging in 2019 wasn’t enough to prevent a recall of amir in 2016. If Pak had been developing bowlers and not leaving it up to pot luck we wouldn’t be looking at the merry go round of bowlers returning or bowlers utilised long past their sell by date.
His point is that Amirs return is a failure of management and this needs highlighting.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Do find it sort of ironic. Me and [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] were among those warning he should never have been offered a return due to the precedent, here we are few years later, he's completely betrayed the organisation that allowed him back into pro cricket and the fans he had, and several other fellow internationals have been banned, and in Sharjeels case, also returned!

Cycle not likely to end any time soon until a no tolerance approach is adopted

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes but I think the point of the discussion is that there is a belief that amir has wronged the pcb, the team ,the fans. And I’m trying to point out he’s been ground into the dust and before him junaid.
Fast bowlers thrive in bowling partnerships.

junaid had a decent back up in Umar Gul or cheema..amir has only had scatterguns at the other end. So he has struggled and it’s a shame. It’s up to team management to find a way to get the best out of bowlers. “We are where we are” is no discussion at all ..”why are we where we are is The more important question. It’s because team management don’t know how to develop talent and manage players.

I don't think you are grasping the crux of the argument. Amir voluntarily retired. He did that himself, nobody made him do it. If every player announced his retirement after he was dropped from the team we wouldn't have any players. But it was his attitude too. The fact that he thought he was above being dropped that's quite telling. And he didn't even bother to return to playing domestic cricket which tells you alot about his arrogance. You may tolerate something like that but I don't and it seems neither do the board, team management and selectors which is good to see.

And sorry but now you're just making excuses for him and insulting my intelligence. So I'm really supposed to believe that its the team management's fault that he's not taking wickets? Give me a break. A world-class bowler takes wickets in all conditions regardless of the constraints. Whether he has a capable new ball partner or not. They don't make excuses and blame external factors like the pitch or how the game has changed over the years. That's what distinguishes the Bumrahs and the Boults from someone like Amir.

And thing is that Shaheen is a pretty capable new ball bowler who has done very well since his debut 3 years ago. Amir is just mediocre and at this point he is yesterdays news whether you like it or not.

Who would have thought how right Rohit Sharma would be when he called Amir an average bowler 5 years ago?

 

[hitthestump]

Do find it sort of ironic. Me and [MENTION=3327]Indiafan[/MENTION] were among those warning he should never have been offered a return due to the precedent, here we are few years later, he's completely betrayed the organisation that allowed him back into pro cricket and the fans he had, and several other fellow internationals have been banned, and in Sharjeels case, also returned!

Cycle not likely to end any time soon until a no tolerance approach is adopted

When Amir returned our fast bowling was in such a state that it was as if Tendulkar was returning to India in the 90's. Amir walked back in after 5 years as the spearhead because Pakistan were desperate for a saviour. No such allowance was made for Butt who found himself intentionally kept at arms length despite Pakistan having somewhat of an opening problem too.

I'm sure Pakistan would love to be setting a precedent but because the cupboard is so dry of talent there is always an argument to bring talented players (by our standards) back after fixing. And that brings us to Sharjeel today. When Danish and Asif Ali have failed so spectacularly in the 'hitting' role the calls for Sharjeel to return and all is forgiven becomes louder.

It's a tricky dilemma for a weak team like Pakistan and a fine balance between improving the poor team now and not losing future stars to the same issue down the line.

 

[Snowflake]

In my opinion, sandpapering the ball is far worse than spot fixing.

The reality is, Amir tore England apart that series and took a few quid to bowl a few no-balls. He only put his OWN team at a slight disadvantage. He was banned and rightfully so.

Smith n Co actively put their opponents at a massive disadvantage by CHEATING. No different that using drugs/PEDs to get an unfair disadvantage.

Difference is CA backed its players like it did with Waugh and Warne when they were caught dealing with Indian bookies.

He served his time of 5 years. End of discussion.

That said, Amir needs to stop being emotional and realise PCB are being professional. If you're going to pick and choose what formats to play at your peak, the PCB has to deal with potentially others following the same route.

PCB would love to have Amir in the squad, but if you're going to down the route he did. Expect to be in a rock and hard place.

100% agreed. The only reason spot-fixing is seen as a worse offence is due to the fact that money is involved. When it comes to the impact on the game itself, tampering is a bigger and worse crime. Spot fixing has no meaningful impact on the result of the game (yeah yeah, one no ball can be the difference technically, but who are we kidding?) whereas tampering can easily change the entire course of the game.

 

[Thanos]

100% agreed. The only reason spot-fixing is seen as a worse offence is due to the fact that money is involved. When it comes to the impact on the game itself, tampering is a bigger and worse crime. Spot fixing has no meaningful impact on the result of the game (yeah yeah, one no ball can be the difference technically, but who are we kidding?) whereas tampering can easily change the entire course of the game.

Sandpaper was kind of first blatant cheating that caught on camera recently. CA took the action and I am sure they'll take more strict actions if it happens again. Player may not be allowed to represent Australia in future.

But there is no limit to spot fixing. What if captain fixes that he'll chose batting/bowling first if toss is in favour. That can also change complete course of game.

Moreover PCB lacks in setting the example. Sharjeel is latest addition after Amir. If players feel they can be allowed back if caught, they won't stop fixing.

I may not like few things of BCCI but happy that they have no tolerance policy for fixing. Jadeja, Azhar, Srisanth never played for India again. Players who were caught fixing during Srisanth case also never played in IPL after.

Amir - it was not his fault that PCB allowed him to play again for country, but seems he considers himself bigger than the game itself. Bigger than the management and all. You can't put a condition of playing for country only when few members will leave the management. No matter how bad the management is. A

player's shelf life is not long and you are doing injustice to everyone including board, country, fans etc. who welcomed you with open arms after you sold the pride of country for few bucks.

 

[OMB]

Regardless of what he has done in the past and the price paid by him, the PCB and the Pakistan cricket, fans had forgiven him.
He got a second chance (he literally walked into the team) but he didn't do justice to his selection. All that noise and it was poof. I reckon that this has made fans more angry and his attitude hasn't helped either.
People who still support him probably are in romance with the idea of dominating fast bowling scene and are disconnected with reality of Amir's current bowling prowess.

 

[Abid Z]

I don't think you are grasping the crux of the argument. Amir voluntarily retired. He did that himself, nobody made him do it. If every player announced his retirement after he was dropped from the team we wouldn't have any players. But it was his attitude too. The fact that he thought he was above being dropped that's quite telling. And he didn't even bother to return to playing domestic cricket which tells you alot about his arrogance. You may tolerate something like that but I don't and it seems neither do the board, team management and selectors which is good to see.

And sorry but now you're just making excuses for him and insulting my intelligence. So I'm really supposed to believe that its the team management's fault that he's not taking wickets? Give me a break. A world-class bowler takes wickets in all conditions regardless of the constraints. Whether he has a capable new ball partner or not. They don't make excuses and blame external factors like the pitch or how the game has changed over the years. That's what distinguishes the Bumrahs and the Boults from someone like Amir.

And thing is that Shaheen is a pretty capable new ball bowler who has done very well since his debut 3 years ago. Amir is just mediocre and at this point he is yesterdays news whether you like it or not.

Who would have thought how right Rohit Sharma would be when he called Amir an average bowler 5 years ago?

First of all my apologies if you feel your intelligence is insulted. It wasn’t my intention but context is important. Let’s go through this slowly .. your point is
Amir has shown disdain for Pakistan cricket and fans by voluntarily retiring prematurely and this is an insult to fans, media and management. I get that. But your belief in amirs decision is only heavily influenced by what you read in media you (we all) just don’t know for sure what exactly happened. But I’m pointing to the context and what happened before amir continues to happen after amir put simply your argument is that amir was dire anyway and other international players pointed out he’s average. Ok.

No, amir was not dire. Pakistan bowling itself has been dire for at least 10 years and this sheds a light on management and failure to manage workloads. It’s actually not just a Pakistan problem but I see only Pakistan and Sri Lanka unable to do anything about it.

No, great bowlers in modern cricket cannot ever take wickets all by themselves anymore. they need both good back up on the field and off the field. I don’t watch Indian cricket but Bumrah seems to be bowling with an attack and resources most teams would kill for.

Given the changes in cricket (bats, slower pitches shorter grounds, advent of t20) we should consider a few examples.

Waqar without wasim in new Zealand in 2001 and SA IN 2002 all bowling friendly places was awful. Couldn’t buy a wicket bowling alongside SAMI. I think he had figures of something like 200-1 in a match in South Africa. Craig Macmillan completely destroyed him in a match in New Zealand.
2005 Gillespie was taken apart by Bangladesh
Alan Donalds figures on his last few matches without Shaun Pollack bring tears to the eye
Walsh with ambrose..don’t know can’t be bothered looking it up.

Point being these were great bowlers before T20 yet they struggled. In modern cricket so many matches take place that you need a large rotating squad and you need excellent strategists behind the scenes. A bowler can no longer just turn up and drop the ball hoping for the best.

Now consider this. Shaheen is as good as Junaid was in 2012 but he’s a one eyed king amongst the blind. He is being ground down exactly how junaid was.
Amir had a break and returned in 2016. (Yes he played some Mickey Mouse matches in 2015) but amir was a shadow of the bowler he was in 2010. yet he was the spearhead. Not that he was any good but Rahat, imran, wahab irfan, sohail and a few other forgettables were so awful. Not only was Amir mediocre he was bowling an enormous amount of overs with the worst Pakistani bowlers I have ever seen and I’ve been watching these guys since 1985.

Despite being half the bowler amir played almost every match in almost every format and each match he deteriorated further. There has been no time for amir to rest, develop his bowling think and reflect.

So it seems if you wanna kill a fast bowlers career and body all you have to do is put him on a PIA flight to Lahore and the pcb will make sure they break him down in no time.

I’m saying this now quite categorically. In 1 year we will not have SSA bowling for us.

Amir may have disappointed his fans but my god he showed loyalty to his own body. Good that he left a rotten system before it killed him.

I expect amir to return and be made t20 captain within 12-18 months. I’ve been watching Pakistan cricket since the 80’s. It’s like a bad marriage, just when you think you can’t be disappointed you sink lower.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

First of all my apologies if you feel your intelligence is insulted. It wasn’t my intention but context is important. Let’s go through this slowly .. your point is
Amir has shown disdain for Pakistan cricket and fans by voluntarily retiring prematurely and this is an insult to fans, media and management. I get that. But your belief in amirs decision is only heavily influenced by what you read in media you (we all) just don’t know for sure what exactly happened. But I’m pointing to the context and what happened before amir continues to happen after amir put simply your argument is that amir was dire anyway and other international players pointed out he’s average. Ok.

No, amir was not dire. Pakistan bowling itself has been dire for at least 10 years and this sheds a light on management and failure to manage workloads. It’s actually not just a Pakistan problem but I see only Pakistan and Sri Lanka unable to do anything about it.

No, great bowlers in modern cricket cannot ever take wickets all by themselves anymore. they need both good back up on the field and off the field. I don’t watch Indian cricket but Bumrah seems to be bowling with an attack and resources most teams would kill for.

Given the changes in cricket (bats, slower pitches shorter grounds, advent of t20) we should consider a few examples.

Waqar without wasim in new Zealand in 2001 and SA IN 2002 all bowling friendly places was awful. Couldn’t buy a wicket bowling alongside SAMI. I think he had figures of something like 200-1 in a match in South Africa. Craig Macmillan completely destroyed him in a match in New Zealand.
2005 Gillespie was taken apart by Bangladesh
Alan Donalds figures on his last few matches without Shaun Pollack bring tears to the eye
Walsh with ambrose..don’t know can’t be bothered looking it up.

Point being these were great bowlers before T20 yet they struggled. In modern cricket so many matches take place that you need a large rotating squad and you need excellent strategists behind the scenes. A bowler can no longer just turn up and drop the ball hoping for the best.

Now consider this. Shaheen is as good as Junaid was in 2012 but he’s a one eyed king amongst the blind. He is being ground down exactly how junaid was.
Amir had a break and returned in 2016. (Yes he played some Mickey Mouse matches in 2015) but amir was a shadow of the bowler he was in 2010. yet he was the spearhead. Not that he was any good but Rahat, imran, wahab irfan, sohail and a few other forgettables were so awful. Not only was Amir mediocre he was bowling an enormous amount of overs with the worst Pakistani bowlers I have ever seen and I’ve been watching these guys since 1985.

Despite being half the bowler amir played almost every match in almost every format and each match he deteriorated further. There has been no time for amir to rest, develop his bowling think and reflect.

So it seems if you wanna kill a fast bowlers career and body all you have to do is put him on a PIA flight to Lahore and the pcb will make sure they break him down in no time.

I’m saying this now quite categorically. In 1 year we will not have SSA bowling for us.

Amir may have disappointed his fans but my god he showed loyalty to his own body. Good that he left a rotten system before it killed him.

I expect amir to return and be made t20 captain within 12-18 months. I’ve been watching Pakistan cricket since the 80’s. It’s like a bad marriage, just when you think you can’t be disappointed you sink lower.

Hahaha. Expecting him to return is one thing but expecting him to be made captain is just too much.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] Ya”ll Welcomed Ed Joyce back with open arms just after he got in bed with the enemy, what precedent was that lad, that would be the equivalent of Amir playing for Pakistan right after he defected to play for India

 

[Abid Z]

Hahaha. Expecting him to return is one thing but expecting him to be made captain is just too much.

It happens all the time. Only PCB can raise the dead.

But this is what will happen
In 12-18 months misbah and waqar will leave with a line like “we have done what we came to do, the structures that we put in place now will provide the foundation for pak cricket to improve further “

They will point to international cricket returning, a good domestic structure that allows for easier step up from regional to national cricket, an army of coaches and back up staff all communicating effectively with pcb central. An introduction of just enough quality players through PSL and other national competition but a premium on the pak cap.

The ceo wasim Khan will open the job for international coaches. I think Andy flower or Mickey Arthur will be in the running. But unlike last time a foreign coach will come in with knowledge of pak cricket through coaching in Psl and also there will be more exposure and a system in line with international standards not the circus that Dav Whatmore or Mickey Arthur found themselves in.
The new coach with a new team will reach out to Amir who is quite young and still has fire in his belly and say you will be the t20 or ODI captain. All will be forgiven.

Amir is a bit of an all rounder and now been around for a long time. As an all rounder he has something to offer. With faheem, hasan and SSA this is a very useful 8,9, 10, 11. And so it continues

Without a recall to national side and just playing league after league Amirs star will wane. He’s trying to simply point out that waqar -misbah coaching isn’t working. I think he has a point.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Hahaha. Expecting him to return is one thing but expecting him to be made captain is just too much.

I miss the days of Ijaz butt where it was all possible

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Hahaha. Expecting him to return is one thing but expecting him to be made captain is just too much.

Abid has been spot on. I have a question for you, what happens if Shaheen gets injured before the T20 WC, whose your new ball bowlers? Hasnain and Rauf? Hassan Ali? Faheem? Musa Khan? Wahab Riaz?

Will your answer be “I’ll take anyone who wants to play for Pakistan over someone that’s playing for money”? How many players in the squad would be playing for Pakistan without being paid?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Abid has been spot on. I have a question for you, what happens if Shaheen gets injured before the T20 WC, whose your new ball bowlers? Hasnain and Rauf? Hassan Ali? Faheem? Musa Khan? Wahab Riaz?

Will your answer be “I’ll take anyone who wants to play for Pakistan over someone that’s playing for money”? How many players in the squad would be playing for Pakistan without being paid?

I mean you pretty much named them yourself. With the exception of Musa Khan who is not fit to play international cricket these are exactly the guys that would be our pacers.

Ridiculous approximation. Are you seriously comparing the money players earn to play cricket (that every player in the world gets paid) with the kind of handsome money paid by T20 leagues?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

I mean you pretty much named them yourself. With the exception of Musa Khan who is not fit to play international cricket these are exactly the guys that would be our pacers.

Ridiculous approximation. Are you seriously comparing the money players earn to play cricket (that every player in the world gets paid) with the kind of handsome money paid by T20 leagues?

Wahab, Hassan and Faheem are not new ball bowlers. That leaves us with Hasnain and Rauf.

Would you agree that the more games a bowler plays that harder it becomes to maintain a low bowling average and strike rate?

Would you believe me if I told you that Amir has a better bowling average and a very good strike rate compared to Haris Rauf and Mohammad Hasnain?

If Pakistan wants to compete with the top teams they can’t be playing bowlers averaging 40+, and averaging 35+ vs teams like Zimbabwe.

For you, cricket is just a sport or a hobby. For the players it’s a career, it’s their bread and butter. Now, would any player in current squad play for Pakistan if they weren’t getting paid?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wahab, Hassan and Faheem are not new ball bowlers. That leaves us with Hasnain and Rauf.

Would you agree that the more games a bowler plays that harder it becomes to maintain a low bowling average and strike rate?

Would you believe me if I told you that Amir has a better bowling average and a very good strike rate compared to Haris Rauf and Mohammad Hasnain?

If Pakistan wants to compete with the top teams they can’t be playing bowlers averaging 40+, and averaging 35+ vs teams like Zimbabwe.

For you, cricket is just a sport or a hobby. For the players it’s a career, it’s their bread and butter. Now, would any player in current squad play for Pakistan if they weren’t getting paid?

Oh please. Both Hasan and Faheem have opened with the new ball before and both can do it again when called upon to do so. And besides Imad Wasim should be the new ball bowler with a fast-bowler. If its not Shaheen someone else can be entrusted with the job. Its not a bi deal because this is not test cricket where it actually matters who opens with the new ball

I'm perfectly well-aware that Amir averages 21.4 in T20Is and frankly I don't care. You guys can keep banging on about the same things and I will keep repeating the same things I have already said. I would rather take new guys who want to represent Pakistan over those that think they are bigger than the team or bigger than playing in domestic cricket. Are any of these guys on Amir's level? I think maybe Shaheen and Hasan (based on current form) are better. But I would still take them over this tainted snake.

I know you are still shaken by Amir's depature. But the sooner you come to terms with it, the better off you will be. Trust me.

Players get paid enough to support their families and live comfortable lifetyles if you take into account PSL and the money they make from national duty. Anything beyond that is all about getting rich. And Amir now is in the getting rich business.

 

[shamaan]

Amir is done and dusted and should not make a come back even if he does take his retirement back.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 2010. Mohammad Amir bowled an over that had 5 wickets (2 run outs) and no runs against Australia in the World Twenty20 at Gros Islet, St Lucia <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/3e7JAFew9m">pic.twitter.com/3e7JAFew9m</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1388753705659355136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[TheNightWatchman]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 2010. Mohammad Amir bowled an over that had 5 wickets (2 run outs) and no runs against Australia in the World Twenty20 at Gros Islet, St Lucia <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/3e7JAFew9m">pic.twitter.com/3e7JAFew9m</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1388753705659355136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 2, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I've never seen a fast bowler pick up the game as quickly as Amir did and that too at such a young age. He had so much potential and would have been better than Starc, Boult and other left arm quicks had he continued to play. He was taking the world by storm. At 17/18 he was bagging the wickets of the likes of Tendulkar, Ponting and the sort.
Unfortunately the better Pakistani fast bowler you are the more likely you'll be involved in controversy

 

[Mirpur express]

Never want to see this guy in Pakistan colours.. Hafeez & Azhar had very good reasons for objecting his return to the team, they obviously knew how entitled & self centred this guy was & now we all see it , I have no time for the current management & want them out ASAP but then I think, maybe they can hang around for a couple of years & make sure this fixer never comes back, by then SSA & Hassan will be mainstays & hopefully Rauf & a few others will have improved too

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I've never seen a fast bowler pick up the game as quickly as Amir did and that too at such a young age. He had so much potential and would have been better than Starc, Boult and other left arm quicks had he continued to play. He was taking the world by storm. At 17/18 he was bagging the wickets of the likes of Tendulkar, Ponting and the sort.
Unfortunately the better Pakistani fast bowler you are the more likely you'll be involved in controversy

Yes he was definitely a precocious talent but he has turned out to have a very selfish streak, and this has ironically led to him not realising his full potential. Even now you can see glimpses of the brilliance in the odd spell, but his lack of commitment to his craft has meant that's all it is. He's left chasing T20 cash leaving behind an unremarkable record at international level.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Yes he was definitely a precocious talent but he has turned out to have a very selfish streak, and this has ironically led to him not realising his full potential. Even now you can see glimpses of the brilliance in the odd spell, but his lack of commitment to his craft has meant that's all it is. He's left chasing T20 cash leaving behind an unremarkable record at international level.

Oh yes a 100 percent. The fact that he made a proper comeback and became a permanent fixture in the side up until this retirement is a miracle in itself.
Coming back 5 years out of the game, no professional cricket-let alone the highest form of international cricket, convicted criminal, multiple lawsuits. it obviously took a toll on him and he wasn't the same when he came back. He lost whatever passion he has/had in his first run. And although you could see those glimpses of brilliance there was so much left to be desired. At the end of the day he was his own worst enemy and a huge huge loss to cricket even despite these past 5 years he played.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Never want to see this guy in Pakistan colours.. Hafeez & Azhar had very good reasons for objecting his return to the team, they obviously knew how entitled & self centred this guy was & now we all see it , I have no time for the current management & want them out ASAP but then I think, maybe they can hang around for a couple of years & make sure this fixer never comes back, by then SSA & Hassan will be mainstays & hopefully Rauf & a few others will have improved too

Hassan and the rest of the current bowlers won't be half as good as Amir in his worst form. I'm sorry but it's true. We just don't have the luxury of good fast bowling talent anymore

 

[UzmanBeast]

Hassan and the rest of the current bowlers won't be half as good as Amir in his worst form. I'm sorry but it's true. We just don't have the luxury of good fast bowling talent anymore

Agreed, the management was quite foolish to make unrealistic demands with him. Yes, you come across these players who appear to be self-centered, but from the outside, I cannot make comments about his attitude as I don't know who he is as a person. But the management is clearly at fault here, Amir was an asset for us post-comeback. At the World Cup, he took wickets consistently whereas our fans complained about his pace deteriorating.

What Amir needed was the support of the management to send him to biomechanical experts to analyze why his pace was slowing down and why he was struggling to bowl fast. Yes, I was disappointed when he retired from all formats, but for test matches, I think the management should have understood that he physically could not bowl in the longer format.

Wahab Riaz came out of test cricket retirement if I'm not mistaken, and he could be a great addition to our test team for bowling with the older ball, but the management chooses to ignore him even after he came out and stated his availability.

The point is that our management also has an ego for reasons I cannot understand. Misbah should know that he's very lucky to still have a job, and the same applies with Waqar Younis. These great players believe that their voice and viewpoint should be respected above all else, but in reality, they are not competent enough to be at the helm of the national team.

Amir can be used in both ODI and T20I in a variety of places.

He can bowl in the death in T20s to save Shaheen overs up front, or he can bowl the overs up front to save Shaheen in the death, both can work.

In ODIs, a new-ball pair of Shaheen and Amir would be quite good in terms of finding breakthroughs, but the current management is also oblivious to that option.

In my opinion, the management should come out and apologize to Amir for what they may or may not have done, and urge him to come out of his retirement and become available for selection. This does not mean that he gets selected immediately, because he must go into the domestic system and produce commendable results. After that, I think he should be brought into the team again.

If he has a banger of a PSL, I'd also consider him for the T20WC.

 

[Major]

Agreed, the management was quite foolish to make unrealistic demands with him. Yes, you come across these players who appear to be self-centered, but from the outside, I cannot make comments about his attitude as I don't know who he is as a person. But the management is clearly at fault here, Amir was an asset for us post-comeback. At the World Cup, he took wickets consistently whereas our fans complained about his pace deteriorating.

What Amir needed was the support of the management to send him to biomechanical experts to analyze why his pace was slowing down and why he was struggling to bowl fast. Yes, I was disappointed when he retired from all formats, but for test matches, I think the management should have understood that he physically could not bowl in the longer format.

Wahab Riaz came out of test cricket retirement if I'm not mistaken, and he could be a great addition to our test team for bowling with the older ball, but the management chooses to ignore him even after he came out and stated his availability.

The point is that our management also has an ego for reasons I cannot understand. Misbah should know that he's very lucky to still have a job, and the same applies with Waqar Younis. These great players believe that their voice and viewpoint should be respected above all else, but in reality, they are not competent enough to be at the helm of the national team.

Amir can be used in both ODI and T20I in a variety of places.

He can bowl in the death in T20s to save Shaheen overs up front, or he can bowl the overs up front to save Shaheen in the death, both can work.

In ODIs, a new-ball pair of Shaheen and Amir would be quite good in terms of finding breakthroughs, but the current management is also oblivious to that option.

In my opinion, the management should come out and apologize to Amir for what they may or may not have done, and urge him to come out of his retirement and become available for selection. This does not mean that he gets selected immediately, because he must go into the domestic system and produce commendable results. After that, I think he should be brought into the team again.

If he has a banger of a PSL, I'd also consider him for the T20WC.

are you insane? Why should management apologize for something they have not done?

Amir made his career choice. He made his choice back than when he decided to make money by corruption and again today by making money from t20 leagues.

Amir did not change. He was greedy for money back than and is still greedy for money today. Only thing that changed was, he found a legal way to fulfill his greed.

PCB or anyone else have nothing to apologize for. If one sucks at bowling, isn't performing and has to be dropped why should some other person apologize for it.

Its amirs loss not PCBs. If Amir doesnt perform, he will still bash team management for it and not take responsibility for it.

Im glad he is destroying his career. No cheat should play for the team. Amir proved that people dont change, once you cheat you will always have that mindset to blame others for your own actions.

 

[UzmanBeast]

are you insane? Why should management apologize for something they have not done?

Amir made his career choice. He made his choice back than when he decided to make money by corruption and again today by making money from t20 leagues.

Amir did not change. He was greedy for money back than and is still greedy for money today. Only thing that changed was, he found a legal way to fulfill his greed.

PCB or anyone else have nothing to apologize for. If one sucks at bowling, isn't performing and has to be dropped why should some other person apologize for it.

Its amirs loss not PCBs. If Amir doesnt perform, he will still bash team management for it and not take responsibility for it.

Im glad he is destroying his career. No cheat should play for the team. Amir proved that people dont change, once you cheat you will always have that mindset to blame others for your own actions.

If Amir is performing, he is an asset for Pakistan in the white-ball formats.

There isn't enough evidence available to blame one or the other, given how poor PCB's management of players has been, it would be no surprise that they did most of the things Amir mentioned. However, given Amir's past, it would also be of no surprise if he has an attitude and greed like most people mentioned.

However, PCB is the bigger authority and there's nothing wrong with asking him if he is willing to come out of retirement and be available for selection.

Do you have any evidence that the management hasn't done what Amir has claimed? I could also ask if you have any evidence about Amir's behavior towards the management, but then again, the issue was kept so vague that I believe it is just another phadda between the egos of Amir and the management.

Given what other players have said, PCB doesn't even let players know when they are being dropped and for what reason until Mohammad Wasim took charge.

I personally believe that both sides are at fault, and both need to let go of their egos and communicate with each other.

Amir needs to understand that he must perform in domestic cricket for a comeback, I completely agree. However, PCB needs to also understand that he does not want to play test cricket and would rather focus on white-ball cricket to prolong his career. He is a quality bowler, but his form has been awful in recent times. He needs to improve it to content for selection.

 

[tahir_dj]

Only if pcb wouldv invested their time on getting Asif back it wouldv been more beneficial for Pakistan

 

[Titan24]

Hassan and the rest of the current bowlers won't be half as good as Amir in his worst form. I'm sorry but it's true. We just don't have the luxury of good fast bowling talent anymore

Skills can be argued upon but, in terms of numbers Hasan is better in tests so far (Averages 24 in first 50 wickets vs AmirÂ’s 29 in 50 wickets and 30 currently with his average hugely dependent upon outstanding numbers in Eng) while Shaheen at this age is way ahead in ODIs (Averages 22 for his 51 wickets vs Amir’s 29 for 81 wickets) and his test average is almost similar to Amir and I am pretty confident it would be better than Amir when he has played 36 tests like Amir has. We would never know what Amir would have been if not for his own mistake as he was doing things with the ball which was obviously impressive a guy of his age but, in terms of pure numbers there is really no way one can say others are not even half the bowlers.

People often talk about impact in big matches and yes Amir has done really well. However, we shouldnÂ’t forget Hassan Ali was the man of the tournament of CT17 and performed throughout the tournament and in WC19 Shaheen wasnt behind Amir rather took almost same amount of wickets in 3 less matches with better average along with best figures of the WC and much less experience.

In T20Is though Amir has been better so far and stats also manifest the same.

This post is not at all to undermine AmirÂ’s skills rather to put forward the measurable aspects of the game and compare.

Amir averaged 40 in his first 9 tests, imagine the uproar that would have caused in modern day. Not comparing the two before everyone start to sharpen their knives of love and hatred but, Naseem Shah averages 42 after 9 tests and he came into the team with much less domestic cricket than Amir.

Another point is people often forget the circumstances and the support around when a bowlers is transitioned in. When Amir came in Pakistan had Asif, Shoaib Gul, Sami, Wahab making his transition much easier as he wasnÂ’t supposed to lead the attack at that point of time unlike what Shaheen had to do only in his 2nd year or so into international cricket. That pressure makes a huge difference, when you know you are not the main man the transition as a young bowler becomes really easy. The way Shaheen is judged from a magnifying glass, Amir was never did as he was considered a young developing pacer while Shaheen has been tagged as the leader of the attack. Imagine a young bowler coming into Pak team after two three hears and Hassan, Shaheen hopefully if fit being alongside him and guiding him.

 

[enigmatic_stani]

Regardless what people may think about him personally he is needed for the T20 WC.
Hassan has found form but he needs to be first change with a Shaheen and Amir opening and Faheem as a part time option if needed. Rauf can be the bench strength.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The question Mohammad Wasim should be asking himself is, does Amir strengthen the bowling attack or weaken it? And pretty quickly he’ll realise that Amir can only strengthen a bowling attack that consists of mediocre players like Hasnain, Rauf and Faheem.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Non of them fixed matches. Quite a lot of players have been found tampering the ball till date. All of them were fined and banned for a few matches, and they were allowed to return. But credit to CA that they banned those players for a year to set an example.

Which match fixer from any other team has ever made a come back?

Marlon Samuels who won WI it's first major tournament in years, I believe