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Mohammad Yousuf vs Misbah-ul-Haq in all 3 formats

Tera Gawaandi

Tera Gawaandi

First Class Player
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Runs
2,841
Misbah has very good record in ICC tournaments.

Misbah was leading run scorer in a calendar year.

Misbah's ODI stats are respectable viz-a-viz Yousuf.

Misbah is a beast in Sub-continent in ALL formats, as good as anyone against spin.

Misbah is a much better fielder, you are comparing fittest guy to play for Pakistan with laziest guy. Easily 10+5 runs (10 fielding/5 quick runs) difference in each match.

Yousuf peaked in mid 2000s, faced weaker bowling attacks than Misbah.

Misbah has 7 Test 100s against top 6 test playing nations (Australia, England, India, New Zealand, South Africa and Sri Lanka) in 83 innings ie. 11.8 innings/100. Misbah has only 1 hundred against BAN, WI and ZIM in total 17 innings.

Yousuf has 13 Test 100s against top 6 test playing nations (Australia, England, India, New Zealand, South Africa and Sri Lanka) in 126 innings ie. 9.8 innings/100. Yousuf has 11 hundred against BAN, WI and ZIM in only 30 innings. Minnow-bashing at it's best.

Misbah's batting average drops from overall career 48 to 46 against top 6 Test playing countries.

Yousuf's batting average drops from overall career 52 to 42 against top 6 Test playing countries.

Misbah averages 35+ against ALL top 6 Test playing nations. Yousuf's average drops to 29 against 3 sides - AUS, SA and SL (World's best bowling attacks, SL had Murali).

Misbah has better record in Asia, Misbah averages 62 in UAE, 116 in India. Yousuf averaged 50 in Pakistan and India. You need to score big in 1st innings in sub-continent to win matches. Both failed in SA (23 vs 26), SL (27 vs 33) and AUS (26 vs 31). Yousuf has very good record in ENG and NZ, Misbah has not played a single test in England. Misbah has respectable average of 42 in NZ vs Yousuf's 55.

There is nothing to separate the two. Yousuf was a good Test player who reached greatness for a year or 2 ala Gautam Gambhir.

Misbah is very very underrated, Yousuf was more talented but he under-achieved. You cannot rate a batsmen just because he was easy on the eyes, Misbah is equally effective.

MUH.jpg

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Misbah only gets ahead of him in t20s


as a batsman Moyo was a class above and we never recovered loosing him in odis
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
Misbah only gets ahead of him in t20s

as a batsman Moyo was a class above and we never recovered loosing him in odis
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They are equal in Test, MoYo in better in ODIs, Misbah is better in T20s. As a cricketer (Batting, Fielding, Captaincy) Misbah is class above.
 
No way they're equal in tests. MoYo was a much better test batsman
 
Oh please. Put aside as a human beeing and off the field, as a batsman Yousaf is miles ahead of Misbah. Misbah fanboys don't need to take everything personally
 
static said:
No way they're equal in tests. MoYo was a much better test batsman
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He *looked* better, Misbah is in-fact a better test bat, its not easy to average 35+ against top sides. There are only 2-3 batsmen in history of game who managed to average 40+ against all sides. Misbah is a very good bat. Yousuf had amazing 1 year and he piled on runs against Eng, India and WI. His average will drop to 30s if we exclude that.
 
I like Misbah but Moyo was better in Tests I believe. Partly due to that freak year. Misbah is more consistent though.

In ODIs maybe too, but a big bottler and can't be compared with Misbah who is the second most successful batsman in ICC tournaments after Saeed Anwar. Also Misbah's overseas record in ODIs is THE BEST from Asia, though his lack of hundred goes against him. Moyo not miles ahead here.

In T20s everyone knows Misbah is a beast.

Captaincy, brains, consider eveeything and obviously Misbah is by far the better cricketer. One of the best overall cricketers from Pak, some will say only Imran, Wasim were ahead. Moyo is not in the same class.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
They are equal in Test, MoYo in better in ODIs, Misbah is better in T20s. As a cricketer (Batting, Fielding, Captaincy) Misbah is class above.
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no they are not

Misbah's away test performances are nothing great , Moyo while not fabulous has a few stand out performance away from home, particularly the boxing day 100 which pundits in australia still rave about

He was truly a class apart
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
He *looked* better, Misbah is in-fact a better test bat, its not easy to average 35+ against top sides. There are only 2-3 batsmen in history of game who managed to average 40+ against all sides. Misbah is a very good bat. Yousuf had amazing 1 year and he piled on runs against Eng, India and WI. His average will drop to 30s if we exclude that.
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I'm a big Misbah fan but it's obvious to me that Misbah was a class below batsmen like Younis, Yousuf and Inzi. Misbah made the made of his limited talent, therein lies his appeal and his stats sort of reflect that but if I was going to pick one of them for my ODI or test team, it would definitely be Misbah.

As a cricketer we can say that Misbah was better but when the only other strings to his bow are fielding (in the slips) and captaincy, then it doesn't mean much.
 
Hawkeye said:
I like Misbah but Moyo was better in Tests I believe. Partly due to that freak year. Misbah is more consistent though.

In ODIs maybe too, but a big bottler and can't be compared with Misbah who is the second most successful batsman in ICC tournaments after Saeed Anwar. Also Misbah's overseas record in ODIs is THE BEST from Asia, though his lack of hundred goes against him. Moyo not miles ahead here.

In T20s everyone knows Misbah is a beast.

Captaincy, brains, consider eveeything and obviously Misbah is by far the better cricketer. One of the best overall cricketers from Pak, some will say only Imran, Wasim were ahead. Moyo is not in the same class.
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Who are these people and have they heard about Miandad, Inzamam and Waqar?
 
To the OP, stats is just one way to look at things. Please do a similar comparison between SRT, Sangakkara and Kallis and see what you find.

As you can see form responses in this thread, Yousuf was a class above Misbah in tests and ODI's.
 
Misbah is an average player compared to Yousuf.. Misbah lacks daddy hundreds in test and hundreds on odi :afridi
 
Hawkeye said:
In ODIs maybe too, but a big bottler and can't be compared with Misbah who is the second most successful batsman in ICC tournaments after Saeed Anwar. Also Misbah's overseas record in ODIs is THE BEST from Asia, though his lack of hundred goes against him. Moyo not miles ahead here.
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Do you mean he is the second most successful PAKISTANI batsman in ICC Tourneys?

Misbah has a better odi overseas record than any indian?
 
Excellent analysis in the OP.

Good work.
 
Pak Warrior said:
Do you mean he is the second most successful PAKISTANI batsman in ICC Tourneys?

Misbah has a better odi overseas record than any indian?
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I remember there being a thread about this in 2013 when Misbah was helping us in an ODI series in South Africa. Not sure if this is still true but I hope it is.
 
Moyo > Misbah in Tests.

Moyo >>> Misbah in ODIs.

Misbah >>>>> Moyo in T20Is.
 
If we compare just on the base of what comes out of both players mouth, whether talking about friends or foes...MoYo is a tried a tested failure while Misbah is an all time great!
 
Cricket wise we can only compare if Misbah had played a lot outside Asia just like MoYo, which he (Misbah) really could not help much with...so this comparison is not fair at all especially for tests!
 
MOYO was a better bat than Misbah but would I have him in my team over Misbah? Absolutely not.
 
Bilal7 said:
[/B]

Who are these people and have they heard about Miandad, Inzamam and Waqar?
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Miandad is definitely up there, better in fact and top captain. Others can be debated about as cricketers but they're not any lower and better than Moyo. My point was to show the class difference between moyo/Misbah as cricketers, not Test batsmen.
 
Pak Warrior said:
Do you mean he is the second most successful PAKISTANI batsman in ICC Tourneys?

Misbah has a better odi overseas record than any indian?
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Yes, Pakistani.

Yes, better ODI record than everyone - beastly averages apart from Aus where he averages a mere 35. Doesn't mean he was that good as his averages suggest - obviously Dravid, SRT were class above.
 
As bitter as Moyo is these days, he was one of our greatest batsmen. Misbah has been brilliant but when you compare them overall, Moyo is way ahead. However, what Misbah has trumps all the feats Moyo has achieved.
 
Pak Warrior said:
Do you mean he is the second most successful PAKISTANI batsman in ICC Tourneys?

Misbah has a better odi overseas record than any indian?
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He has the highest overseas average in ODIs out of other Asian batsman, mainly because he has played only 16 matches in Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand combined.
 
Abdullah719 said:
I don't rate him as an overseas bat, but 5 Tests isn't much of a sample... hasn't even played in England.
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Small sample but yeah doubt he can do great overseas. No Pakistani batsman has been great overseas in Tests.

However, the record he has in ODIs overseas, no one from PAK is even close..
 
Purely as batsmen yousuf is well ahead in all formats but as personalities and captain there is only one winner...
 
As a batsman alone Yousuf is ahead, However Yousuf also was the one of the worst captain we ever had in our entire history.
 
Abdullah719 said:
I don't rate him as an overseas bat, but 5 Tests isn't much of a sample... hasn't even played in England.
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yes bro I know. But what I'm saying is, you can't say Misbah > Yousuf in tests because Misbah has 0 tons in these places.
 
I will hv moyo over misbah, even in gully cricket let alone only three formats
 
Hawkeye said:
I like Misbah but Moyo was better in Tests I believe. Partly due to that freak year. Misbah is more consistent though.

In ODIs maybe too, but a big bottler and can't be compared with Misbah who is the second most successful batsman in ICC tournaments after Saeed Anwar. Also Misbah's overseas record in ODIs is THE BEST from Asia, though his lack of hundred goes against him. Moyo not miles ahead here.

In T20s everyone knows Misbah is a beast.

Captaincy, brains, consider eveeything and obviously Misbah is by far the better cricketer. One of the best overall cricketers from Pak, some will say only Imran, Wasim were ahead. Moyo is not in the same class.
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Debatable....

Misbah had one good tournament and even then he choked in pressure situations in both matches against India... His T20 career is in fact where Misbah's "nearly guy" persona started.

He ultimately had little impact during the 2009 and 2010 T20 WC's...

By 2011 and 2012 he began to struggle in T20's and his cringe worthy innings against England in 2012 signaled the end of his career in that format.

I do respect him for what he did during that 2007 T20 WC for getting us so close but by no means was he a gun player in that format.

MoYo never played T20's so there is no valid comparison between the two...
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
no they are not

Misbah's away test performances are nothing great , Moyo while not fabulous has a few stand out performance away from home, particularly the boxing day 100 which pundits in australia still rave about

He was truly a class apart
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not to forget THAT tour of england in 2006!

Had we not witnessed Oval-gate, that tour would have been remembered for Yousuf's batting. Arguably even better than Dravid's tour of England in 2011.
 
excellent thread with some eye opening analysis. its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.

consistency though is far greater valuable characteristic for a great batsman, and for his team.

ultimately the debate on the word "class" depends on its definition. for some its easiness on the eye (yousuf), highest peak (yousuf), or its consistency and efficacy (misbah) - in any and all cases, the op certainly shows that misbah is grossly underrated by the general fan base.
 
Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Inzamam, Younis, and Yousuf are probably the best batsmen Pakistan has produced. Misbah is a great batsmen, but is a class below, especially in ODIs.
 
Yousuf was the girlfriend who looked classy, was the envy of your friends, and always stayed by your side in good times but ditched you whenever you were in a crisis. Misbah is the wife your mother chose for you who brought up your children, managed your house, and remained faithful through thick and thin but looked like a middle aged gorilla while doing it :yk
 
Haroon786 said:
That's because he wasn't good enough to get into the team.
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May be true may be not true but we will never know for sure....

It is dificult to determine if a player is "good enough to get into the team" if he barely plays that format. I do know that MoYo can up the scoring rate when required and had all the strokes to do it. Similarly, Inzy could have also been a great t20 player since, although he was more limited in strokes than MoYo, but he had tremendous power game to make up for it.

It was probably more of case of our management moving away from the seniors after the 2007 WC - especially due to the success our team had during the 2007 World T20.
 
lol [MENTION=74271]O[/MENTION]p

stats don't paint the whole picture, decent batsmen Is someone who changes or wins games for his team misbah has always played for a draw in tests and his average in odi's
 
I disagree that Yousuf faced weaker bowling attacks. He probably faced stronger bowling attacks compared to Misbah.
 
msb314 said:
May be true may be not true but we will never know for sure....

It is dificult to determine if a player is "good enough to get into the team" if he barely plays that format. I do know that MoYo can up the scoring rate when required and had all the strokes to do it. Similarly, Inzy could have also been a great t20 player since, although he was more limited in strokes than MoYo, but he had tremendous power game to make up for it.

It was probably more of case of our management moving away from the seniors after the 2007 WC - especially due to the success our team had during the 2007 World T20.
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Majority of successful T20 batsmen are power players - the likes of Gayle, McCulum and KP - Moyo just didn't have the power to regularly score 6s and I don't think he did well in the domestic T20s either be them ICL or other competitions.
 
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
 
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going by OP's logic misbah is as good as Sachin Tendulkar i can prove it i have stats :P

Misbah is also good as Ricky Ponting again i have stats to prove it

Misbah is just a touch better than rahul dravid again you have guess it right i have stats by stats guru :P
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
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Wonderful reply to OP.
 
I was just trolling Yousuf fans in the other thread when I mentioned Yousuf was a worse batsman because he averaged under 30 vs 3 top test playing countries. Look at a batsman like gambhir who over all didn't have a great test career but a great peak that helped India reach number one. Yousuf also had a great peak and also had a solid career built around that peak. Great test teams are built around run scoring machines and thats what Yousuf was. Misbah on the other hand is basically just a very good role player.

Batsman sometimes average less in certain countries or against certain teams simply because that aren't in the best of form when playing against them. Not because they are "flat pitch bullies" or bad against good bowling attack. Although that might play a certain role.
 
Great work OP. I nominate your post as the potw. These stats show that Yousuf was an overrated batsman and Misbah an underrated batsman. What good are hundreds in England, New Zealand and Australia when you always failed on the biggest stage of them all. the World Cups. Yousuf only has 2 50s against some associate teams in WCs and did nothing against the top teams. No wonder we did so poorly in 2003 and 2007 World Cups because our best batsmen at that time such as Yousuf just couldn't handle the pressure of playing in a WC. Yousuf may be a better batsman overall but I would always have Misbah in my team. And I don't say that just because I'm a Misbah fanboy but because unlike Youhana, Misbah performed in the ICC events.
 
The thing is Misbah never played in England and not much in Australia. And thats why most fans won't mark him greater than Yousuf. Maybe if PCB arranged a couple of tours to England Australia we could have known who was better
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
Click to expand...

POTW. Explained it very well.
 
yusuf was a far better batsman. Misbah could never play the kind of innings yusuf scored vs England in England. Not sure even younis could.
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
Click to expand...

Normally i don't like the ultra negativity by Mamoon at times but this surely is POTW. Wonderful reply to the OP and all those propagandists who try to belittle the likes of Inzamam, Yousaf, Younis to accomodate Misbah.
 
mamoon said:
an absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by misbah fanboyism, will testify that moyo was leagues above misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that misbah is better/even same class as moyo.

Let's consider odis. Can't believe some people are even arguing that misbah is close to moyo in odis.

'misbah is more consistent'

how is an average of 42 at a sr of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with zero hundreds?

Consider the sr - moyo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a sr of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, tendulkar and ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a sr of around 85, and no one would argue that moyo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best odi batsmen of his generation as misbah is.

The best odi batsmen of misbah's era - de villiers, kohli, amla, williamson etc. Are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to moyo in odis.

He is not even close to michael clarke and no one considers him an odi great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but iirc, misbah has only two 90+ scores in his odi career and no matter how misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an odi hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close cricinfo statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as i've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as i said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre odi batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an odi hundred is by doing a shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and i don't blame him).

In relative terms, moyo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [mention=41809]ar[/mention]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class odi batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like hafeez to misbah, who has the third most centuries in odis for pakistan (along with inzamam and ijaz) but he is not a better odi batsman than misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

Moyo vs. Misbah in odis is not even worth debating.

Moyo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes i agree that his record in world cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in mohali, one of the worst odi innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In tests, misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the uae, india, west indies and bangladesh, while both have a good record in new zealand.

Moyo on the other hand hasn't done well in australia and south africa, but his 111 at the mcg against mcgrath, warne and gillespie is one of the greatest knock in australia by a pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in england, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in england.

Both have poor record in sri lanka, but moyo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from younis and to a certain extent, azhar ali. You cannot win tests without scoring big and misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in tests after 60s and 70s.

Moyo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against australia/new zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between may 2011 and november 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

Moyo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ test hundreds, and around 20 odi hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like sangakkara who made full use of odis post-2010, something moyo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near moyo the batsman.

Moyo barely played t20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a moyo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but i'd back a peak moyo to do well as a t20 opener.
Click to expand...

potw
 
AlphaFighter said:
Normally i don't like the ultra negativity by Mamoon at times but this surely is POTW. Wonderful reply to the OP and all those propagandists who try to belittle the likes of Inzamam, Yousaf, Younis to accomodate Misbah.
Click to expand...

Half of these Misbah fanboys started watching cricket in 2011, so can't blame them entirely either, but when they propagate this propaganda that Misbah the batsman is in the same class as their predecessors, it certainly becomes a problem.
 
Lol. Its not even a comparision. Yousuf was leagues ahead in Tests & ODIs.
 
in Tests, Misbah was one of the bigger ftbs after Jayawerdene but Moyo was class in fact his best knocks came on England tour.
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
Click to expand...

Misbah's ODI strike rate was in the 60s since he became captain. Don't think I've seen batsmen with much worse strike rates.
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
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take a bow son.

Although I do disagree with many of your views regarding Shehzad, Hafeez, Babar Azam, YK etc. you are absolutely spot on here and deserve your 5th POTW.
[MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION]reen [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION] [MENTION=133532]Ottoman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]
 
Mamoon said:
An absolutely disastrous thread. Firstly, the whole premise of this thread is wrong because it is purely based on statistics, and anyone who has followed the careers of both and is not blinded by Misbah fanboyism, will testify that MoYo was leagues above Misbah as a batsman, and even if you consider statistics only, there is no rational way of suggesting that Misbah is better/even same class as MoYo.

Let's consider ODIs. Can't believe some people are even arguing that Misbah is close to MoYo in ODIs.

'Misbah is more consistent'

How is an average of 42 at a SR of 75 (playing bulk of your cricket in the 2000's) over 273 innings with 15 hundreds is inferior to an average of 43 at an average of 74 in 149 innings with ZERO hundreds?

Consider the SR - MoYo played between 1998 and 2009 regularly, and a SR of 75 for that period was not bad at all. For reference, Tendulkar and Ponting in the same period averaged around 45-46 and a SR of around 85, and no one would argue that MoYo was in their league, but this comparison shows that he wasn't as below as the best ODI batsmen of his generation as Misbah is.

The best ODI batsmen of Misbah's era - de Villiers, Kohli, Amla, Williamson etc. are on a different planet, which sums up how inferior he is to MoYo in ODIs.

He is not even close to Michael Clarke and no one considers him an ODI great.

The biggest gem in this thread is 'its idiotic in my mind to over emphasis 100s, and its usually unthinking children who are fixated on it, after all theres no effective difference between a 99 and a 100.'

Nice buzz, but useless drivel - yes there is no effective difference between 99 and a 100, but IIRC, Misbah has only two 90+ scores in his ODI career and no matter how Misbah fanboys spin it (no support etc.) the truth is that he was simply not good enough to score an ODI hundred and it is very easy to decipher why, should you close Cricinfo Statsguru and watch the matches instead, because there really is no substitute to watching the game. Unless you want to argue that there is no effective difference between a 60/70 and a 100+ score.

Misbah's strike rotation was as bad as I've ever see, and the fact that he took around 100 deliveries to get to 60-70 meant that scoring a hundred was practically impossible for him. You cannot come in at number 4/5 and bat for a 120-130 deliveries, which is what he'd have needed to score an hundred.

After facing around 100 deliveries, in the quest to up the ante, he would throw his wicket away which is why he never got a hundred and never earned the reputation of a finisher; he was simply a consolidator who brought the innings to a complete halt but did a very important job for a team that was extremely vulnerable for a period, and he was the only batsman worth any salt. However as I said before, in a strong dynamic lineup, he's a hindrance because in its true sense, he is a mediocre ODI batsman who shone in a terrible lineup.

The only way he could have got an ODI hundred is by doing a Shehzad and opening the innings, or perhaps bat at number 3 and he was unwilling to do it and I don't blame him).

In relative terms, MoYo statistics in 2000's translates to 47-48 [MENTION=41809]AR[/MENTION]ound 85-90, which is world class and that is what he was - a world class ODI batsman.

Fixation with hundreds would be wrong if we compare someone like Hafeez to Misbah, who has the third most centuries in ODIs for Pakistan (along with Inzamam and Ijaz) but he is not a better ODI batsman than Misbah because he isn't consistent enough, but here we are talking about a batsman with a 40+ average and a strike rate that is good relative to his era.

MoYo vs. Misbah in ODIs is not even worth debating.

MoYo was soft under pressure, but he has played some good pressure knocks as well, however yes I agree that his record in World Cups is poor. Misbah on the contrary has often been the lone man standing, but let's not pretend that he bolted under pressure; we are talking about a batsman who couldn't score 1 run in 2 balls vs. India, played a disastrous shot in the final after bringing his team so close and absolutely melted under pressure in Mohali, one of the worst ODI innings on the big stage - was 17 (40) at one stage.

Misbah is relatively less a bottler, but he is no big match player either.

In Tests, Misbah has a respectable record but again, most of his runs have come in the UAE, India, West Indies and Bangladesh, while both have a good record in New Zealand.

MoYo on the other hand hasn't done well in Australia and South Africa, but his 111 at the MCG against McGrath, Warne and Gillespie is one of the greatest knock in Australia by a Pakistani batsmen, and let's not even discuss how brilliant he was in England, and how masterfully he handed the lateral movement. All summer, the Sky commentators lauded how late he played and it was a true exhibition of how to bat in England.

Both have poor record in Sri Lanka, but MoYo has done better and even scored a hundred.

Misbah's biggest problem in Tests is his inability to score big; all of the big scores in the last 5 years have come from Younis and to a certain extent, Azhar Ali. You cannot win Tests without scoring big and Misbah is not capable of scoring 150+ and 200+ scores. For someone who is lauded for his temperament and concentration, he really does love throwing his wicket away in Tests after 60s and 70s.

MoYo was extremely good at scoring and that is why he as 24 hundreds/4 double hundreds in 156 innings, and had one of the greatest peaks ever. Misbah did well to score 3-4 hundreds last year against Australia/New Zealand after the top-order piled up 500+ scores but between May 2011 and November 2013, he couldn't score a single hundred.

MoYo's attitude and personality let him down big time, but don't let Misbah fanboys delude you into believing that he wasn't a top quality batsman and Misbah can be compared to him. His ego bloated after he grew a beard anf got brainwashed by tableeghis, and ultimately lost 4-5 golden years.

He was on course to end with 10,000+ runs in both formats, and 30+ Test hundreds, and around 20 ODI hundreds. He was pretty much in the class of someone like Sangakkara who made full use of ODIs post-2010, something MoYo missed out on which makes his record in the 2000's even more fantastic.

This thread is a classic example of how unreliable a purely statistical analysis can be. Misbah is a gentleman and a very good ambassador of Pakistan cricket and a good batsman, but he is nowhere near MoYo the batsman.

MoYo barely played T20s and it rose into prominence in the last 7-8 years so a MoYo vs. Misbah cannot be done without making too many assumptions, but I'd back a peak MoYo to do well as a T20 opener.
Click to expand...

Quality stuff here. Although stats even would prove that Yousuf > Misbah, as you did allude to, furthermore place in team, in tandem with time played as you said easily make up for any discrepancies.

People remember recent memory and only look at the plain numbers of Yousuf.

I wish cricket had advanced stats metrics as in other sports. Yousuf's two centuries against SA itself are more than I can remember huge knocks and big knocks from Misbah were.
 
I will have to agree with [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], This is a joke of a thread. Misbah better than MoYo :facepalm:
 
Last edited:
Mamoon said:
Half of these Misbah fanboys started watching cricket in 2011, so can't blame them entirely either, but when they propagate this propaganda that Misbah the batsman is in the same class as their predecessors, it certainly becomes a problem.
Click to expand...

Well, you can see the hater brigade attacking this thread in numbers and quoting your post blindly for potw. :)))

OP is an Indian poster and no one here claimed Misbah was a better batsman, specially Test bat than Moyo.

Although he did excel and went above moyo like overseas in ODIs, ICC tournaments (where you bash Amla for bottling), T20s, captaincy and leadership. So, many without a hater lens would argue Misbah was a better cricketer, and it won't be untrue.
 
Lol at Mamoon's post being the potw. What a joke. OP's post is a million times better candidate for potw than Mamoon's.
 
Hawkeye said:
Well, you can see the hater brigade attacking this thread in numbers and quoting your post blindly for potw. :)))

OP is an Indian poster and no one here claimed Misbah was a better batsman, specially Test bat than Moyo.

Although he did excel and went above moyo like overseas in ODIs, ICC tournaments (where you bash Amla for bottling), T20s, captaincy and leadership. So, many without a hater lens would argue Misbah was a better cricketer, and it won't be untrue.
Click to expand...

..................

LOL :)))

Hawkeye you legend!
 
msb314 said:
..................

LOL :)))

Hawkeye you legend!
Click to expand...

Look at some posters above and you'll know. MRSN etc. will go to any length to discredit the poor guy from everything. Nobody here ever said Misbah is the better batsman specially in Tests, (but is a better cricketer), so who the hate is directed towards? :D

Some of the guys above are blindly quoting him and not giving credit to Misbah where he excelled.
 
Hawkeye said:
Look at some posters above and you'll know. MRSN etc. will go to any length to discredit the poor guy from everything. Nobody here ever said Misbah is the better batsman specially in Tests, (but is a better cricketer), so who the hate is directed towards? :D

Some of the guys above are blindly quoting him and not giving credit to Misbah where he excelled.
Click to expand...

I do agree with Mamoon on the jist of his argument regarding MoYo batting excellence. He was simply better than Misbah as a batsman but there is no shame in that.

Misbah had far better career than the likes of Farhat, Hameed, Razzaq, Kamal, Faisal Iqbal etc. who all debuted around the same time as him (except for razzaq) with a test average in the high 40's and an ODI average in the low 40's along with being our captain for the past 5 years.

MoYo had his weaknesses but was a truly wonderful test and ODI batsman. Quite simply a once in a generation cricketer for Pakistan and a freak of nature. He was a better stroke maker than the likes of Inzy, Saeed Anwar, YK etc.
 
TOTALLY unfair comparison- Misbah and Yousuf played in 2 completely different eras for batsmen

Also, the top 6 changed dramatically- WI and even Zimbabwe had much stronger bowling attacks in the 90's

I get that you like Misbah, but Yousuf was a match winner for Pakistan- MILES ahead of Misbah as a batsmen
 
msb314 said:
I do agree with Mamoon on the jist of his argument regarding MoYo batting excellence. He was simply better than Misbah as a batsman but there is no shame in that.

Misbah had far better career than the likes of Farhat, Hameed, Razzaq, Kamal, Faisal Iqbal etc. who all debuted around the same time as him (except for razzaq) with a test average in the high 40's and an ODI average in the low 40's along with being our captain for the past 5 years.

MoYo had his weaknesses but was a truly wonderful test and ODI batsman. Quite simply a once in a generation cricketer for Pakistan and a freak of nature. He was a better stroke maker than the likes of Inzy, Saeed Anwar, YK etc.
Click to expand...

Maybe not Saeed, but definitely more elegant than Younis, and even Inzi
 
As a batsman, MoYo was a better batsman than Misbah. In my opinion, the gap was big enough to not have too much doubt.
 
Saj said:
Excellent analysis in the OP.

Good work.
Click to expand...

Not an excellent analysis by any means if you look at the conclusions he draws.

It would have been excellent; if he had compared away stats as well in which misbah gets truly exposed. Especially if we talk about non-Asian conditions.

Also, the point that misbah has no centuries in ODI basically destroys any argument brought up.

The OP is clearly trying to undermine an ATG like Yosuf by comparing him to Misbah.
 
11ShadyBrothers said:
Not an excellent analysis by any means if you look at the conclusions he draws.

It would have been excellent; if he had compared away stats as well in which misbah gets truly exposed. Especially if we talk about non-Asian conditions.

Also, the point that misbah has no centuries in ODI basically destroys any argument brought up.

The OP is clearly trying to undermine an ATG like Yosuf by comparing him to Misbah.
Click to expand...
Point is, there is a lobby which will not spare anyone who dares to utter anything against misbah.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
 
Misbah fans getting too defensive as usual when their idol isn't regarded the greatest of all time by anyone else. Yousuf is a class apart, you can screenshot as many statsguru pages as you want, and throw all that on an excel spreadsheet, and it still wouldn't change this widely agreed idea that Yousuf > Misbah. Matches are watched on the screen or IRL, not on scorecards and calculators.
 
Suleiman said:
Misbah fans getting too defensive as usual when their idol isn't regarded the greatest of all time by anyone else. Yousuf is a class apart, you can screenshot as many statsguru pages as you want, and throw all that on an excel spreadsheet, and it still wouldn't change this widely agreed idea that Yousuf > Misbah. Matches are watched on the screen or IRL, not on scorecards and calculators.
Click to expand...

Even the calculators and score cards cant prove that Misbah is better than Yosuf. Thats the point.
 
11ShadyBrothers said:
Even the calculators and score cards cant prove that Misbah is better than Yosuf. Thats the point.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the "stats" in the OP, where you can handpick whatever you want in statsguru and make it look like Misbah was some mythical being that Yousuf wasn't.
 
11ShadyBrothers said:
Not an excellent analysis by any means if you look at the conclusions he draws.

It would have been excellent; if he had compared away stats as well in which misbah gets truly exposed. Especially if we talk about non-Asian conditions.

Also, the point that misbah has no centuries in ODI basically destroys any argument brought up.

The OP is clearly trying to undermine an ATG like Yosuf by comparing him to Misbah.
Click to expand...

What ?
 
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