Moral decay in the West

[Leo23]

what are the causes and how can it be dealt with?

discuss

 

[Robert]

What moral decay?

 

[Varun]

History in motion.

 

[troodon]

We have zero morals and shame in India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

OP needs to offer some sort of framework for the debate. If you are asking about the moral decay of the west, presumably that is in comparison to the east. Give some examples of where the west could learn and improve.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

OP needs to offer some sort of framework for the debate. If you are asking about the moral decay of the west, presumably that is in comparison to the east. Give some examples of where the west could learn and improve.

Family values

 

[hafeezrocks]

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise, Kids exposed to violent video games and movies , Drug and Alcohol Addiction, Individualism, Materialism, Feminazis, Gay Lobby. Young people are too selfish to get married because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.

Decline of Christianity in the society.

 

[Varun]

OP needs to offer some sort of framework for the debate. If you are asking about the moral decay of the west, presumably that is in comparison to the east. Give some examples of where the west could learn and improve.

That, and you get the feeling that the OP would be offended by the going ons in the West even thirty years ago. Or fifty years ago.

The word 'decay' is misused in his context.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That, and you get the feeling that the OP would be offended by the going ons in the West even thirty years ago. Or fifty years ago.

The word 'decay' is misused in his context.

Which is fine, but then he should offer some yardstick so we can measure against whatever he considers is an alternative.

 

[JaDed]

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise, Kids exposed to violent video games and movies , Drug and Alcohol Addiction, Individualism, Materialism, Feminazis, Gay Lobby. Young people are too selfish to get married because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.

Decline of Christianity in the society.

Basically being exposed to having choice and steering your life as you want it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Basically being exposed to having choice and steering your life as you want it.

Do you wish in India there was more choice to steer life as you want it?

 

[troodon]

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise, Kids exposed to violent video games and movies , Drug and Alcohol Addiction, Individualism, Materialism, Feminazis, Gay Lobby. Young people are too selfish to get married because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.

Decline of Christianity in the society.

In East, we have Gay Lynching, Violent religious attacks, Pathetic civic sense, corruption, Sifarish (Recommendations), Not valuing talent, female infanticide, women getting brutalized at homes, wife beating (Women silently suffer), Arranged marriages (Total lottery, but women and man still live together unhappily many times), child slavery, child trafficking, families who earn less than Rs100 a day and yet pop 1 kid every year, People who should not be having kids have tons of kids............

There are tons of issues in East too. Mostly in subcontinent where we try to be the flag bearers for Family values.

Yet the West is doing a million times better than our 3rd world countries. People have freedom and a choice to live the life they want to live, eat they want to eat without the fear of getting killed.

 

[Heisenberg]

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise, Kids exposed to violent video games and movies , Drug and Alcohol Addiction, Individualism, Materialism, Feminazis, Gay Lobby. Young people are too selfish to get married because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.

Decline of Christianity in the society.

As opposed to having 10 children born out of wedlock and given away as slaves to 'earn', kids exposes to violence in real life, domestic abuse, rape that can't be reported for fear of being convicted yourself, honour killings, mass lynchings when accused of eating beef/saying something unislamic, sheep following sheep, no contribution to science and society except self pity etc etc in the east?

 

[Black Zero]

Still million times better than the east.

 

[troodon]

Still million times better than the east.

This.

End of Thread.

 

[DW44]

Like Robert said, what moral decay? If someone thinks places like India, Pakistan or the middle east have superior morals, they need their moral compass looked at because it's clearly pointing in the wrong direction.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I would say the west has morally improved a lot from what they were just a century ago. Probably due to decline in religion.

 

[Syed1]

On a TTC subway station the ticketing machine and turn style weren't working so the transit commission just opened the walkway and let everybody in. Most people still placed coins (or their tokens) by the ticketing booth.

One time, on a Tim Hortons drive thru a car paid the bill for the car behind them and then this triggered a chain where about 250+ cars paid it forward, I think the chain was only broken because the last car didn't have enough money to pay it forward for the car behind them.


#moral decay

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Moral decay (as for as women are concerned) was always there and shall be there, always.

Playerz play. They've always been in the game.

Only difference is before we were kids and had an 'innocent' view of the world. Now we grown up and see things which we never knew even existed.

 

[Syed1]

Personal experience: My chacha opened up a franchise restaurant in a Toronto suburb. On the opening day everything was free and there was no limit on order. Alot of people knew this, but most people just walked in without this prior knowledge. After their order when they took out their wallets to pay the cashier promptly informed them that everything is free and guess what MOST OF THEM LEFT AMOUNT EQUAL TO THEIR BILL AS TIP. Can you expect this in the east?


#moral decay

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So pretty clear from those answering in this thread that those who live in the west don't feel they have anything to learn from the east. So my question would be to those who live in the east: why don't you adopt more of the moral superior practices from the west and improve your own conditions? Instead it seems you bring them with you even to the west when you come here to settle.

 

[troodon]

So pretty clear from those answering in this thread that those who live in the west don't feel they have anything to learn from the east. So my question would be to those who live in the east: why don't you adopt more of the moral superior practices from the west and improve your own conditions? Instead it seems you bring them with you even to the west when you come here to settle.

Neither is superior.

What works for the West is the freedom of expression and encouragement of new ideas even if they challenge the existing traditions. In east everything is discouraged that does not fit with the age old traditions and practices.

Many in West do not value things that they take for granted. In East people value even little things. The best is some where in between West and East (leaning more towards West).

 

[Black Zero]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40852824

 

[JaDed]

Do you wish in India there was more choice to steer life as you want it?

We have the choice,I'm sure I do,but we need to use it as wisely as the west not for just eating at mcdonalds.

 

[Leo23]

On a TTC subway station the ticketing machine and turn style weren't working so the transit commission just opened the walkway and let everybody in. Most people still placed coins (or their tokens) by the ticketing booth.

One time, on a Tim Hortons drive thru a car paid the bill for the car behind them and then this triggered a chain where about 250+ cars paid it forward, I think the chain was only broken because the last car didn't have enough money to pay it forward for the car behind them.


#moral decay

Personal experience: My chacha opened up a franchise restaurant in a Toronto suburb. On the opening day everything was free and there was no limit on order. Alot of people knew this, but most people just walked in without this prior knowledge. After their order when they took out their wallets to pay the cashier promptly informed them that everything is free and guess what MOST OF THEM LEFT AMOUNT EQUAL TO THEIR BILL AS TIP. Can you expect this in the east?


#moral decay

excluding canada. canadians are awesome people.

 

[Leo23]

Family values

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise, Kids exposed to violent video games and movies , Drug and Alcohol Addiction, Individualism, Materialism, Feminazis, Gay Lobby. Young people are too selfish to get married because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.

Decline of Christianity in the society.

this

as far as corruption in the east is concerned it is due to incompetency of the governments but the west has declined morally in spite of living in the first world

it shows that their cultural values are weak.

 

[Leo23]

Like Robert said, what moral decay? If someone thinks places like India, Pakistan or the middle east have superior morals, they need their moral compass looked at because it's clearly pointing in the wrong direction.

better family values,respect for elders,compassion,helping others etc

if you break a leg on the street in the east dozens of people will rush to help you but if the same happens in the west no one will bother

western people are like robots

as far as the freedom in the west is concerned then insanity does not deserve freedom.

if a man wants to identify as a woman and a woman identifies as furniture and a 50 year old man wants to identify as a teenage girl and then gets adopted by a childless couple these folks do not deserve freedom.they are simply insane

 

[DW44]

better family values,respect for elders,compassion,helping others etc

Can't speak to the east as a whole but Pakistani family values are massively overrated. It's all about elders this elders that while the younger generation keep getting screwed over, be it arranged marriages, often against at least one of the marrying parties' wishes, women being treated like property, little better than slaves, with four out of five, 80 freaking percent (take a moment to let that sink in), facing some form of domestic violence. Child marriages are rampant despite being illegal and many parts of the country still have traditions of settling financial disputes by trading women, almost always underage.

if you break a leg on the street in the east dozens of people will rush to help you but if the same happens in the west no one will bother

Massive generalization with zero factual basis. Different people react differently to such situations but no culture has a monopoly on kindness. I have seen half a dozen people help out a guy who simply sprained his ankle on a sidewalk in the UK and I have seen footage of people filming a guy in Multan as he poured gas on himself and set himself on fire so your generalization is just that, a generalization.

western people are like robots

And eastern people, Pakistanis in particular, are like sheep so what's the big deal?

as far as the freedom in the west is concerned then insanity does not deserve freedom.

That's your opinion and one that most westerners would heartily disagree with so feel free to move back to the east which would be more to your liking. FWIW, I feel the same way about the freedom Pakistan provides to Islam and Muslims. That insanity, with all the lynchings, neighborhood torchings, vigilante murders, and religious riots is where the limits of freedom are tested.

if a man wants to identify as a woman and a woman identifies as furniture and a 50 year old man wants to identify as a teenage girl and then gets adopted by a childless couple these folks do not deserve freedom.they are simply insane

Thankfully, you don't get to make that call. People can identify as anything they want to. When others decide what one can or can't identify as, you get the fascism that Ahmadis in Pakistan are subjected to on a daily basis so I'll take the freedom over Islamic repression any day of the week.

 

[Leo23]

Can't speak to the east as a whole but Pakistani family values are massively overrated. It's all about elders this elders that while the younger generation keep getting screwed over, be it arranged marriages, often against at least one of the marrying parties' wishes, women being treated like property, little better than slaves, with four out of five, 80 freaking percent (take a moment to let that sink in), facing some form of domestic violence. Child marriages are rampant despite being illegal and many parts of the country still have traditions of settling financial disputes by trading women, almost always underage.


Massive generalization with zero factual basis. Different people react differently to such situations but no culture has a monopoly on kindness. I have seen half a dozen people help out a guy who simply sprained his ankle on a sidewalk in the UK and I have seen footage of people filming a guy in Multan as he poured gas on himself and set himself on fire so your generalization is just that, a generalization.


And eastern people, Pakistanis in particular, are like sheep so what's the big deal?


That's your opinion and one that most westerners would heartily disagree with so feel free to move back to the east which would be more to your liking. FWIW, I feel the same way about the freedom Pakistan provides to Islam and Muslims. That insanity, with all the lynchings, neighborhood torchings, vigilante murders, and religious riots is where the limits of freedom are tested.



Thankfully, you don't get to make that call. People can identify as anything they want to. When others decide what one can or can't identify as, you get the fascism that Ahmadis in Pakistan are subjected to on a daily basis so I'll take the freedom over Islamic repression any day of the week.

"people are free to do what they want"

no they are not

if everyone starts to do what they want there will be no order and discipline in society

we will become animals

in fact even animals follow herds so we are becoming worse than animals

there is too much focus on individualism in the west which is causing the moral decay

and it is better to be a sheep in the east than have your 8 year old turn himself into a drag queen )

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We have the choice,I'm sure I do,but we need to use it as wisely as the west not for just eating at mcdonalds.

In the west some people use it wisely, some people use it disastrously. That is the whole point of individual freedom. If you have it in India as you claim, and you haven't achieved the majesty and glory of the west then that comes down to your use of that freedom as a people. We eat McDonalds quite freely by the way, it's one of the most successful business franchises in the UK.

 

[DW44]

"people are free to do what they want"

no they are not

if everyone starts to do what they want there will be no order and discipline in society

we will become animals

in fact even animals follow herds so we are becoming worse than animals

there is too much focus on individualism in the west which is causing the moral decay

and it is better to be a sheep in the east than have your 8 year old turn himself into a drag queen )

Yeah, it's better for a kid to learn how to make bombs in some madrassa or end up married to a 60 year old man before hitting puberty than it is for someone to chose something that makes them happy. You give this song and dance about people turning into animals due to too much freedom and yet the people actually acting like animals are the ones in societies like India and Pakistan that have no freedom whatsoever. Off course if you think lynchings and honor killings is behavior totally becoming of dignified human beings while exercising control over your sexual agency is animalistic behavior, you have problems.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Moral decay in the west is a blanket statement.

The push for green energy and recycling is concentrated largely in the 'West'. That's combating an existential threat. I'd say that's a clear example of upholding a moral duty, if ever there was one.

 

[Black Zero]

Moral decay in the west is a blanket statement.

The push for green energy and recycling is concentrated largely in the 'West'. That's combating an existential threat. I'd say that's a clear example of upholding a moral duty, if ever there was one.

Recycling is a scam, imo.
I think Penn and teller had an episode on it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah, it's better for a kid to learn how to make bombs in some madrassa or end up married to a 60 year old man before hitting puberty than it is for someone to chose something that makes them happy. You give this song and dance about people turning into animals due to too much freedom and yet the people actually acting like animals are the ones in societies like India and Pakistan that have no freedom whatsoever. Off course if you think lynchings and honor killings is behavior totally becoming of dignified human beings while exercising control over your sexual agency is animalistic behavior, you have problems.

The thread is about the moral decline in the west not the problems in Pakistan which have been discussed to death on here. Your generalistion is just poor anyway.

 

[Robert]

if you break a leg on the street in the east dozens of people will rush to help you but if the same happens in the west no one will bother

How do you know? Have you broken a leg in the West?

I fell off my bike and crashed. A lady put it back on its wheels. Two chaps picked me up and someone gave me a medicinal tot from his hip flask.

I met a guy collapsed on the street and called 999. Stayed with him until the ambulance came. I expected no thanks - it was just the proper thing to do.

Most people are kind wherever you go.

 

[PakLFC]

We should not interfere in the culture of white people. Allama Iqbal predicted the decline of western values a long time back saying it will commit suicide. They are incredibly sensitive if anyone criticises dating, drug or in particular single mother culture. Only thing is for them is to keep suffering until they see the wisdom in taking another path. Pakistanis have different problems to contend with as well. Our culture is also becoming greatly decayed in many ways as well, to many "saas bahu" drama's greatly effect us amongst many other problems.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is an interesting topic, a shame people are deflecting to other nations.

Western civilisation has declined in morals , there is no doubt.

The biggest issue here is the breakdown of the family. Divorce rates are high and single parents are a huge problem.

 

[troodon]

this

as far as corruption in the east is concerned it is due to incompetency of the governments but the west has declined morally in spite of living in the first world

it shows that their cultural values are weak.

Corruption is not due to incompetence of Government. Corruption is a reflection of social mindset which is the existing culture in the society.

Subcontinent societies are extremely corrupt. Its part of the culture. "Sab Chalta hai" attitude. Accepting mediocrity is also part of our culture.

 

[troodon]

This is an interesting topic, a shame people are deflecting to other nations.

Western civilisation has declined in morals , there is no doubt.

The biggest issue here is the breakdown of the family. Divorce rates are high and single parents are a huge problem.

You have an option to be in marriage or not in West. You can have kids without marriage. Its a choice that people make. At least those people do not rely on other countries with begging bowls to feed their children.

In Subcontinent, there is no choice. Every person has to get married and have kids.
It does not matter if the person is fit enough for marriage and kids. It does not matter if the person has enough finances or not. Just keep popping kids. All the while abusing wife, selling kids into slavery and providing little nutrition and education to them.

 

[Syed1]

So morality only boils down to marriage and children out of wedlock?


Morality goes out of the window when it comes to stealing from others, or trying to make a quick buck off of others, or using connections to secure a job you are not qualified for, or going wrong way on a busy street, or not stopping on a red light, or having small children as servants and making them use separate chairs, tables and utensils or having separate education system for the rich and the poor. I can keep going on and on.


The countries of the east are the most immoral in the world, so please don't strut around with your false sense of morality just because you have all children born within wedlock.

 

[Leo23]

Corruption is not due to incompetence of Government. Corruption is a reflection of social mindset which is the existing culture in the society.

Subcontinent societies are extremely corrupt. Its part of the culture. "Sab Chalta hai" attitude. Accepting mediocrity is also part of our culture.

no country is corruption free

 

[Markhor]

If people from Asia and Middle East find Western culture so decadent and abhorrent, why do so many of them want to risk their lives to migrate to the West in their droves ?

Western culture may have its faults but I'd rather live in a society where women are not reduced to second-class citizens, religious intolerance is not rampant, where I'm not at the risk of being lynched due to my religious beliefs (or lack thereof), where child marriages are not commonplace, where there is not pervasive corruption at all levels of government and where honour killings are not practised.

The only point I agree with is the one about television and films. There's so much gratuitous nudity, sex and violence on our screens. We are encouraged to see bad as good and good as bad. TV shows like Dexter, House of Cards and Breaking Bad glorify evil and villainous behaviour. The oversexualisation of society has led to damaging mental health effects on young girls and boys in particular.

Children born out of wedlock, Irresponsible Women popping out Kids without a Father Figure at Home, Single Parenting on the Rise.

This is a bit of a myth. I can only discuss the UK where Prof Pat Thane of King's College did an interesting study on this.

Marriages lasted longer because they often began at an earlier age, were less likely to be broken by death in early adulthood as life expectancy rose, and divorce was harder to obtain. She cites much evidence of cohabitation throughout the 1920s and 1930s, however due to the social stigmas of the time many couples presented themselves as married. Furthermore, as much as 30% of children were conceived out of wedlock as early as 1939.

The "permissive 1960s" did see relaxation in divorce laws and cultural attitudes changing but in many cases people just started being more honest and open about their situations with divorce no longer being seen as taboo.

However conservatives love to whine about how most evils in society coincided with breakdown of the family during the ruinous 60s as they talk a good game about individual liberty, choice and freedom but don't actually like people exercising it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have an option to be in marriage or not in West. You can have kids without marriage. Its a choice that people make. At least those people do not rely on other countries with begging bowls to feed their children.

In Subcontinent, there is no choice. Every person has to get married and have kids.
It does not matter if the person is fit enough for marriage and kids. It does not matter if the person has enough finances or not. Just keep popping kids. All the while abusing wife, selling kids into slavery and providing little nutrition and education to them.

You're missing the point like a whole in the head.

Firstly this isnt the only moral issue , just one of many.

There is nothing wrong with people splitting up , this was not my point.

My point was people in the west get into relationships with no long term plans. Intimate relations without planning lead to children who then grow up with no family structure, it's very normal now. I know many who dont even know who their farther is let alone seeing him.

This is not about the sub continent and if you want to judge anything based on the 3rd world, feel free.

 

[KingKhanWC]

no country is corruption free

Tony Blair was more corrupt than Nawaz Sharif.

 

[Leo23]

Tony Blair was more corrupt than Nawaz Sharif.

agreed

the british left decades ago but looks like the colonial slavery mind set did not leave us

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Corruption is not due to incompetence of Government. Corruption is a reflection of social mindset which is the existing culture in the society.

Subcontinent societies are extremely corrupt. Its part of the culture. "Sab Chalta hai" attitude. Accepting mediocrity is also part of our culture.

I have to agree, and this is one of the reasons why despite not traditionally being a Conservative, I have had to wholeheartedly support Theresa May's firm stance on clamping down on Indian immigrants, even to the detriment of our trade negotiations when she was in India this year.

The corruption is ingrained in the culture over there, we really don't need it to be brought over here and passed down the generations to infect our green and pleasant lands where fair play and honesty are held in high regard. As they say, East is East....

 

[Robert]

This is an interesting topic, a shame people are deflecting to other nations.

Western civilisation has declined in morals , there is no doubt.

The biggest issue here is the breakdown of the family. Divorce rates are high and single parents are a huge problem.

To whom?

 

[KingKhanWC]

To whom?

To the children and society at large.

 

[kingusama92]

In the battle of morals, I believe the East would lose handily.

 

[Justcrazy]

what are the causes and how can it be dealt with?

discuss

This happened when Church separated from state. Its same with what happened in Islam.

 

[Nostalgic]

Molar Decay in the West is a pressing concern, despite the excellent dental care these Westerners enjoy. Its to do with all this excess sugar they consume. Flossing, brushing and dental exams are no match for the sugary juggernaut.

 

[JaDed]

In the west some people use it wisely, some people use it disastrously. That is the whole point of individual freedom. If you have it in India as you claim, and you haven't achieved the majesty and glory of the west then that comes down to your use of that freedom as a people. We eat McDonalds quite freely by the way, it's one of the most successful business franchises in the UK.

Yes and its very successful here as well,that is the point I'm making here ,what we do with the freedom is the difference between West and East and the poster I was replying to wants to take that away from WEST and listen to Church and its rules.

 

[JaDed]

Molar Decay in the West is a pressing concern, despite the excellent dental care these Westerners enjoy. Its to do with all this excess sugar they consume. Flossing, brushing and dental exams are no match for the sugary juggernaut.

) I somehow expected you to come out with such a reply

 

[LegCutter]

Children born out of wedlock is not an indicator of moral decay at all considering that marriage is not deemed obligatory in the West anymore. They consider marriage a social and legal construct (in light with decline of religiousness). A lot of couples choose to live together without legal marriage to prevent some of the financial pitfalls that come with legal marriage (financial redistribution at divorce etc). This is a matter of personal choice; and if said couple chooses to get married, they will be free to do so.

Single motherhood is unfortunate but at the same time, it is a side-effect of divorce rates which is a byproduct of feminism and the ease of divorce to get out of an abusive relationship. Whereas in the East and in pre-feminism West, most people would remain in an unhappy (and/or abusive) marriage, the option of divorce has become widely available and not taboo anymore. As such, most men and women would rather divorce than remain in a toxic marriage. The unfortunate ramification is that the child will have to grow in a Single Parent Home, but still better than the alternative of growing up in an abusive and unhappy home.

Kids exposed to violent videogame and movies - I dont consider this a moral dillemma. If you believe this is an issue, I wont argue with your POV but I will point out that the eastern equivalence of watching Bollywood movies, and the middle-upper class children also play the same videogames.

Drug and Alcohol Addiction
The problem has been recognized and efforts made to reduce the rates of addiction. Cigarette smoking rates are at their lowest; and the CDC is attempting drastic measures to cut opiate use. And for addicts, extensive support systems, therapy and pharmaceuticals are available to provide help to addicts.
Although it is an issue, credit is due that the government recognizes the problem and does take attempts to do what it deems necessary. I would admit that the war on drugs has been a massive failure from all ends. Which again, was recognized and steps are being taken to make marijuana legal and allow freedom of choice in the issue of personal drug use.

Individualism - I consider this to one of the greatest strengths of the Western system. I am really enjoying being a 28 year old adult in the West rather than a 28 year old child in the East with my life being dictated by parents, grandma, grandpa, uncle, aunty, adult siblings, phuppas and phuppees, molvi saab and whoever else adult figure wants to get involved (hyperbolic,yes but my point is the amount of adult influence and lack of individualism and personal choice in the East).
And what is your alternative proposal? Herd mentality is something to be fought; not advocated. Getting a kid's life dictated from his birth with zero personal choices is depressing when viewed in from the outside.

Materialism - A byproduct of comfortable finances and economics. It's the fuel of capitalism. There are many Westerners who enjoy frugal lives, and there are many Westerners who live carpe-diem style and enjoy whatever their paycheck can afford. Again, personal choice.

Feminazis - Agreed. But it is the radical final stage of feminism, and feminism needs to be given credit for the current status of women in Western society which is miles ahead of the East. I do admit that the current wave of feminism is toxic and oppressive.

Gay Lobby - the West view homosexuals as legitamate and equal. It is an example of tolerance. Although I myself once did not understand homosexuality, I have to commend the West's open-mindedness to even discussing and then gradually legitimizing homosexuality allowing people like me to view this from a new point of view and recognize homosexuals arent some abomination but normal people who are attracted to the same sex.

Young people are too selfish to get married.
It is a choice. Some individuals want to focus on their careers. Some individuals want to enjoy their single liberties. A choice which is not offered in some parts of the East.

Because they can't stop enjoying the Single Life and consider Children as a Burden.
Again, this is a personal choice. those who wish to have children do so, and some who would rather focus on their career or other pursuits have no moral obligation to have children. A choice I wish was more prevalent in the East to curb the population boom.


Morality is subjective. The people in this thread who believe Eastern morality is superior are unlikely to share my viewpoint or arguments. Having experienced both, I recognize the West has issues (feminazi, social justice, some islamophobia) but atleast it tries to better itself as a society and is constantly progressing. I cant say that for Pakistan.

 

[Nostalgic]

) I somehow expected you to come out with such a reply

Feigned Dyslexia is one of my forum schticks.

 

[sjahmed23]

If you are comparing it to east then no. There is no moral decay... If you are comparing western society today compared with western society 30-40 years ago then yes. I would blame deregulated capitalism and growing income inequality as some of the reasons.

 

[FreakCricket]

Personal experience: My chacha opened up a franchise restaurant in a Toronto suburb. On the opening day everything was free and there was no limit on order. Alot of people knew this, but most people just walked in without this prior knowledge. After their order when they took out their wallets to pay the cashier promptly informed them that everything is free and guess what MOST OF THEM LEFT AMOUNT EQUAL TO THEIR BILL AS TIP. Can you expect this in the east?


#moral decay

Only happens in small places like Toronto, can't expect this to happen anywhere in USA.

 

[Black Zero]

Only happens in small places like Toronto, can't expect this to happen anywhere in USA.

Totally agree, USA is pretty backward place...in this aspect.

 

[aloo paratha]

Well there are somethings in the west that are worse off than the east, for the most part, people in the west are much nicer to others than people in the east are to others generally.

Oh and a laughable comment about breaking a leg above. A poster left a link of a man who was left to DIE in India whereas a few years ago I dropped some books out of my bag and this random stranger helped me pick them back up. Way to generalize

 

[JaDed]

Well there are somethings in the west that are worse off than the east, for the most part, people in the west are much nicer to others than people in the east are to others generally.

Oh and a laughable comment about breaking a leg above. A poster left a link of a man who was left to DIE in India whereas a few years ago I dropped some books out of my bag and this random stranger helped me pick them back up. Way to generalize

But the same incident happened in a western country where they filmed the guy drowning and mocking him.

Using single examples,will lead to nowhere as there will be counter examples.

Overall there is no moral decay in West ,it's just based on opinions.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well there are somethings in the west that are worse off than the east, for the most part, people in the west are much nicer to others than people in the east are to others generally.

Oh and a laughable comment about breaking a leg above. A poster left a link of a man who was left to DIE in India whereas a few years ago I dropped some books out of my bag and this random stranger helped me pick them back up. Way to generalize

Poor example of morality. Morality is not about civic sense or etiquettes, which the west has in plenty btw (except on rare occasions like the black friday sale).

 

[CricketCartoons]

But the same incident happened in a western country where they filmed the guy drowning and mocking him.

Using single examples,will lead to nowhere as there will be counter examples.

Overall there is no moral decay in West ,it's just based on opinions.

Agreed. The west has actually improved. From color apartheid in US to witch hunting in UK, they have done a lot to bury their barbaric and savage past and are mostly tolerant and diverse societies now.

 

[saadibaba]

Molar Decay in the West is a pressing concern, despite the excellent dental care these Westerners enjoy. Its to do with all this excess sugar they consume. Flossing, brushing and dental exams are no match for the sugary juggernaut.

This comment sums this debate well i.e. this debate is a joke.


Discussing moral decay in the west is such typical desi behavior as it gives a good distraction away from ones own problems of morality and indecency. Just look into your own gareeban bhai... honor killing, acid attacks, marrying daughters for land and money...need I say more.

 

[Robert]

To the children and society at large.

How do you quantify that? There is a correlation between single parenthood and juvenile criminality, but it is a weak one.

I know many kids who were brought up by one parent yet are honest, studious and respectful. Better to be in a loving single parent family than an abusive one with two parents.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How do you quantify that? There is a correlation between single parenthood and juvenile criminality, but it is a weak one.

I know many kids who were brought up by one parent yet are honest, studious and respectful. Better to be in a loving single parent family than an abusive one with two parents.

I suppose you could ask why there would be an abusive relationship with two parents in the first place, but it's missing the point. Reminds me of a story I heard about Aishwairya Rai the famous Indian actress who was being questioned about living with her parents or in laws by a western reporters and she responded by saying something about respecting her parents and at least we don't put them in old people's homes to fester.

I think she was getting defensive, the point is that in the west we can afford to put old people into care homes, we come up with solutions to real problems rather than be forced to live with situations which impact our freedom.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

If moral decay is ..... looking after the poor, the weak, the elderly, the minorities then I am all for this "moral decay"

 

[Slog]

The West is which proliferated slavery at such a massive scale

The West killed millions like guinea pigs in pursuit of pointless wars in both the Old World and the New

The West is which erased civilizations in Americas, Africa and in some places of India

The subservient attitude of desis is too predictable

 

[kingusama92]

The West is which proliferated slavery at such a massive scale

The West killed millions like guinea pigs in pursuit of pointless wars in both the Old World and the New

The West is which erased civilizations in Americas, Africa and in some places of India

The subservient attitude of desis is too predictable

The Mongols killed 40 million people. Highest recorded by any civilization.

The Ottoman Empire held 14 million slaves during its peak and played its part in the Atlantic Slave Trade.

 

[kabbirann]

People who talk about moral decay, are more often than not, immoral hypocrites.
There is nothing more irritating than holier than thou stupidity.
As Kabir wrote:
Bura Jo Dekhan Main Chala, Bura Naa Milya Koye
Jo Munn Khoja Apnaa, To Mujhse Bura Naa Koye

 

[Syed1]

Only happens in small places like Toronto, can't expect this to happen anywhere in USA.

Dude Toronto is one of the largest cities in the world.

 

[Black Zero]

The Mongols killed 40 million people. Highest recorded by any civilization.

The Ottoman Empire held 14 million slaves during its peak and played its part in the Atlantic Slave Trade.

And how many got killed due the colonization?

Hint: just in bengal alone, 10 millions were effected and died...

 

[Black Zero]

Dude Toronto is one of the largest cities in the world.

New york is at #2 while toronto is at #48.

Toronto got around 25% of NY's population.

 

[Syed1]

New york is at #2 while toronto is at #48.

Toronto got around 25% of NY's population.

The reason Toronto is #48 because most of the suburbs in the Greater Toronto Area such as Mississauga, Oshawa, Markham etc aren't even counted in Toronto's population, otherwise Toronto is easily in the top 20 atleast.


Heck Toronto's largest suburb, Mississauga, on its own is the 6th largest city in Canada.

 

[Black Zero]

The reason Toronto is #48 because most of the suburbs in the Greater Toronto Area such as Mississauga, Oshawa, Markham etc aren't even counted in Toronto's population, otherwise Toronto is easily in the top 20 atleast.


Heck Toronto's largest suburb, Mississauga, on its own is the 6th largest city in Canada.

So you want to add the population of Mississauga to Toronto's?
Interesting conept as that would make the population of Canada's 6th largest city zero.

Then would otherwise be it fair to compare greater toronto area with "greater NY area"?

 

[Leo23]

If moral decay is ..... looking after the poor, the weak, the elderly, the minorities then I am all for this "moral decay"

there is no comparison at all between how elderly people are treated in the west and the east

in the east they are given far more respect and honor while in the west the children move out of their homes at 18 (because freedom lol) and the elderly are often thrown in old homes

in fact you would often find old men and women working as cashiers in super markets while their children are unaware of them

you may have a point about the rest but you made your post completely irrelevant by mentioning the treatment of the elderly people

 

[LegCutter]

there is no comparison at all between how elderly people are treated in the west and the east

in the east they are given far more respect and honor while in the west the children move out of their homes at 18 (because freedom lol) and the elderly are often thrown in old homes

in fact you would often find old men and women working as cashiers in super markets while their children are unaware of them

you may have a point about the rest but you made your post completely irrelevant by mentioning the treatment of the elderly people

There is nothing that will change your views; you have already made your mind up that the eastern treatment of the elderly is morally superior to the West.
Elder care in the East comes at a cost; a young adult is stripped of his middle years while catering to the needs of his ageing parents. This is not a black-and-white issue; it is incredibly subjective from a moral point of view as to what is 'morally right'. The West values individualization and a kid is deemed an adult at 18 and moves out. The East sacrifices individualization for elder care as the adult continues to live with his parents and regard their needs to trump his own until they die. In which case, he will soon be getting close to retirement himself and it will be time for his own kids to start serving this new aged parent.

If you place more value on tight-nit families and less on individualism, you will consider the Eastern culture superior.
Western society doesnt share your point of view. It encourages branching out at an individual level to the depriment that elder parents dont get the same level of care from their children that is common in Eastern cultures.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How do you quantify that? There is a correlation between single parenthood and juvenile criminality, but it is a weak one.

I know many kids who were brought up by one parent yet are honest, studious and respectful. Better to be in a loving single parent family than an abusive one with two parents.

There are around 2 million single parents in the UK, one of the highest in Europe. Many of these were never in a partnership. The burden on the child can be huge as normally a single parent cannot work to provide and must claim benefits(burden on taxpayer). It also has impilcations on the life of the child growing up. We also see there are special homes for single mothers, I used to live near one and these families would struggle. The moral issue here is people creating babies with no plans or intentions to have a family, many resulting in a one night stand.

 

[Rayyman]

Something I noticed on PP is that most people hate America.
[MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION]

 

[Pakistanian]

Something I noticed on PP is that most people hate America.

[MENTION=142256]Pakistanian[/MENTION]

 

[Pakistanian]

So you want to add the population of Mississauga to Toronto's?
Interesting conept as that would make the population of Canada's 6th largest city zero.

Then would otherwise be it fair to compare greater toronto area with "greater NY area"?

I've always considered Mississauga as a suburb of Toronto, in America it's pretty common to lump midsized and even somewhat larger towns with a major city.