Most lethal bowlers who weren't just fast but had express pace

[Harsh Thakor]

This is my list in order of merit of the pace bowlers who were not just genuinely fast but express pace.In my view the likes of Lillee,Roberts,Wasim,Ambrose,Imran,Marshall,Garner may have just missed the cut in the express pace category even if they were better than almost all of those who attained express speed.I agree Marshall and Roberts at their quickest may have reached close to 160 but consistently to me they were not express quick as Waqar,Thommo,Holding or Paterson.


Most lethal express pace bowlers in order.

1.Michael Holding
2.Jeff Thomson
3.Alan Donald
4.Waqar Younus
5.Shoaib Akhtar
6.Patrick Paterson
7.Sylvester Clarke
8.Mitchel Johnson
9.Harold Larwoood
10.Brett Lee.


It was neck to neck between Holding and Thomson but I chose Mikey because of his more consistent speed through the air and greater abilty to seam or move the ball.To me none was a consistently fast as Holding or posessed as perfect an action.Thomson caused the greatest terror at his best with the ball that exploded disconcertingly from a good length to rattle the batsmen .However he did not posess the control or movement of the greatest pacemen.Still no pace bowler was meaner or as intimidating

.Alan Donald and Waqar both had lightning pace but I felt Donald was the more acurate and intelligent even if Waqar was a fraction quicker and moved the ball more.I can never forget some of Donald's senstaional breakthroughs in England and the subcontinent while Waqar was the best ever exponent of the swinging yorker.


Shoaib Akhtar was the quickest bowler ever in the history of the game who for sheer pace could rip through the upholstery or ribcage of any great batsmen.I can never forget his dismissals of Tendulkar and Dravid or his best bowing in New Zealand and Australia.Sadly he never blended his astonishing speed with sufficient control or movement though there were days when he created reverse swing at astonishing heights.

Patrick Paterson was an epitome of terror in the late 1980's ripping through the flesh of many a batting line up,even in India.At his quickest he was more hostile than even Marshall or Ambrose.

Sylvester Clarke was the quickest of them all and was a terror in Pakistan in 1980 or in India in 1978-79.Sadly he had too much competition and could never do adequate justice to his complete reserves of talent.

Mitchel Johnson at his best took pace bowling prowess to regions of the sublime .blending pace,bounce and movement as few quickies ever did like in South Africa in 2014 and in the home Ashes series.

Harold Larwood took lethality in pace bowling to its zenith in the bodyline series.

Brett Lee was the perfect foil for Mcgrath and Warne able to blast out any batting side on his day.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

please come here pp fans. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]

 

[Abdullah]

Shane bond in his pomp

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Shane bond in his pomp

True just misses out.Like others and order?

 

[Bel_Homme]

Shaun Tait is also worth mentioning.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Shaun Tait is also worth mentioning.

Almost there.Any comments on list?

 

[cricketjoshila]

How are Colin Croft and Andy Roberts not here? No Marshall too.

Gavaskar rated Roberts to be the most difficult of the WI bowlers.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

How are Colin Croft and Andy Roberts not here? No Marshall too.

Gavaskar rated Roberts to be the most difficult of the WI bowlers.

Roberts close to best but not express pace like Holding.Same with Croft or Marshall.

 

[RickyG]

Pretty good list. I can think of other lethal bowlers but that weren’t express pace.

I can think of express pace bowlers that weren’t lethal.

As for this list, there has been nothing like Waqars peak. An inswinging 95mph fast bowler who was either going to shatter the stumps or your toes. It’s unfortunate that it didn’t really last.

Shoaib at his peak was unplayable in bursts. But unfortunately for him his body never really allowed him to have a long lasting career.

Johnson was hostility personified at his peak. Scatter gun when not at his best but when in the mood he would send fear down your spine.

 

[alexjohn_tcr]

SA Pacer Brett Schultz

 

[andy0204]

Andrew Flintoff.

 

[BaankeJi]

Larwood seems too far down the list. Should be at 4. Paterson used to go for runs even though he was fast. Should be at 10.

 

[Robert]

The young Marshall was super fast and super aggressive.

Later he turned into an advanced bowler like the older Lillee, cutting and swinging both ways at sharp fast medium.

 

[silent ischemia]

Muhammad Zahid

 

[silent ischemia]

Kenny Benjamin

 

[Ab Fan]

I think Marshall and Roberts should definitely be there, ahead of Allan Donald, who was express also but would give up on pace for accuracy at times.

Thompson, Waqar, Akhtar, Holding, Lee and Johnson v2.0 were obvious ones. Bond should be added as well.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think Marshall and Roberts should definitely be there, ahead of Allan Donald, who was express also but would give up on pace for accuracy at times.

Thompson, Waqar, Akhtar, Holding, Lee and Johnson v2.0 were obvious ones. Bond should be added as well.

The part about Donald is off. Donald actually bowled quicker in his later spells and he maintained a very good speed throughout except maybe the last year of his career. Don't think he was express though except maybe a couple of spells.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

I think Marshall and Roberts should definitely be there, ahead of Allan Donald, who was express also but would give up on pace for accuracy at times.

Thompson, Waqar, Akhtar, Holding, Lee and Johnson v2.0 were obvious ones. Bond should be added as well.

Were Marshall and Roberts truly express pace like Holding,Shoaib,Waqar and Thomson?Quicker than Donald?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

The part about Donald is off. Donald actually bowled quicker in his later spells and he maintained a very good speed throughout except maybe the last year of his career. Don't think he was express though except maybe a couple of spells.

How quick was Donald?On par with Waqar?

 

[Ab Fan]

The part about Donald is off. Donald actually bowled quicker in his later spells and he maintained a very good speed throughout except maybe the last year of his career. Don't think he was express though except maybe a couple of spells.

Donald was quick but not as express as Waqar. However, former had more accuracy and was more smarter and intelligent bowler than latter.

My argument was w.r.t. Donald being express pace. He was faster than Wasim though.

 

[Ab Fan]

And with Waqar, I meant the one till 96.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Roberts close to best but not express pace like Holding.Same with Croft or Marshall.

Both Marshall and Roberts were clocked at 150k plus in Australia.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Donald was quick but not as express as Waqar. However, former had more accuracy and was more smarter and intelligent bowler than latter.

My argument was w.r.t. Donald being express pace. He was faster than Wasim though.

In early 90s in England

Waqar was clocked at 153ks
Donald at 152.9ks

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Donald was quick but not as express as Waqar. However, former had more accuracy and was more smarter and intelligent bowler than latter.

My argument was w.r.t. Donald being express pace. He was faster than Wasim though.

Donald was clocked upwards of 150 kph. It's reasonable to expect that he bowled atleast a few express spells. A bit like Steyn . There were times in his career that Steyn was bowling 150+ spells ( 2006 Vs NZ, Australia tour 2012 etc. ) but most ly bowled fast medium with occasional fast spells. Express spells were rare. Donald would have been similar.

 

[Monsee]

Really surpised to not see Imran being mentioned, I am sure in his pomp (79-87), he was bowling just about as quick as most, if not being one of the top fast men...especially if Croft and Patrick Peterson are in the list since they probably didn't even end up with 150+ wickets!

 

[Junaids]

Helmets play a huge role in this.

Before Packer, all four of Thomson, Roberts, Holding and Lillee were measured at the WACA in the 150’s and it was a life and death experience.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Helmets play a huge role in this.

Before Packer, all four of Thomson, Roberts, Holding and Lillee were measured at the WACA in the 150’s and it was a life and death experience.

Who was the most lethal?Was Marshall express pace?or Lillee?Holding or Thomson more dangerous?

 

[wrongun]

Who was the most lethal?Was Marshall express pace?or Lillee?Holding or Thomson more dangerous?

Do you mean lethal as in scary & physically damaging or effective at running through a lineup.

In Oz, it is recognised that it is the "sling" nature of Thommo & Johnson that made them extra scary- it is harder to pick up length in particular when the are action is a slinging style & even harder when it is not a grooved, metronomic repeatable action. Both these guys could get mechanics right or wrong which sends the ball at a greatly different speed & more importantly different trajectory toward the batsman (THommo used to even forget how many steps he had in his run up from match to match).

The ball disappears behind the back of both these bowlers as they swing their arm back and head into their leap- completely removed from the batsmans concentration & gaze. Again this makes the ball far harder to predict.

At the speed these guys were bowling, along with their aggression, the lack of familiar cues for the batsman to get that split second read on line & length made their bumpers extra scary & hard to pick up.

 

[wrongun]

 

[Robert]

Really surpised to not see Imran being mentioned, I am sure in his pomp (79-87), he was bowling just about as quick as most, if not being one of the top fast men...especially if Croft and Patrick Peterson are in the list since they probably didn't even end up with 150+ wickets!

There was a time around 1981-82 when Holding’s speed started to drop and before the emergence of Marshall when Imran was the world’s fastest.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

There was a time around 1981-82 when Holding’s speed started to drop and before the emergence of Marshall when Imran was the world’s fastest.

Of who you saw who were the fastest?Imran in club of express pace?Who was most lethal amongst express pace?

 

[Bhaijaan]

At 170 kph + Jerry Thompson was the most devastating quick bowler ever to step foot on a cricket field. He could kill batsmen with his bowling which was considered khatarnaak and jaanleva by many respected experts of the game.

Then you have Dennis Lillee and Malcolm Marshal both operating in the high 160s and sometimes touching 170kph.

However keeping in mind in the era he bowled in and with the fitness and atheletics standards back in that time, you have to say that Harold Larwood was arguably the greatest express pace bowler ever. He bowled 165 kph with a run up of only a few steps like Jasprit Bumrah and still generated so much pace and fear.

Cricket fans of this generation who have grown up believing Akhtar, Lee were the fastest have no idea what really tezzi was all about back in the day. We are all unlucky to have born in an era when we have been seriously deprived of sonic pace.

With that i rest my case.

For any query you may contact my trusted friends and historians [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION]e all of whom are minimum 50 years of age.

Regards
Bhaijaan

 

[Bhaijaan]

Helmets play a huge role in this.

Before Packer, all four of Thomson, Roberts, Holding and Lillee were measured at the WACA in the 150’s and it was a life and death experience.

It is also to be noted that with batsmen not wearing protective gear, the humanity factor in these offer pacers ensured they were always bowling at best 90% of their real speed in live cricket.

Had these bowlers been bowling at modern day batsmen hidden in literally a knight like armour they would be bowling at full throttle and consistently beating 170kph on the speed gun with the exception of Jerry Thompson who would be sometimes bowling 180 kph because he was a wild thang bro.

 

[Pakhs]

It is also to be noted that with batsmen not wearing protective gear, the humanity factor in these offer pacers ensured they were always bowling at best 90% of their real speed in live cricket.

Had these bowlers been bowling at modern day batsmen hidden in literally a knight like armour they would be bowling at full throttle and consistently beating 170kph on the speed gun with the exception of Jerry Thompson who would be sometimes bowling 180 kph because he was a wild thang bro.

I am surprised you did not say they would be bowling at 250kph and above with modern diet aswell.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

At 170 kph + Jerry Thompson was the most devastating quick bowler ever to step foot on a cricket field. He could kill batsmen with his bowling which was considered khatarnaak and jaanleva by many respected experts of the game.

Then you have Dennis Lillee and Malcolm Marshal both operating in the high 160s and sometimes touching 170kph.

However keeping in mind in the era he bowled in and with the fitness and atheletics standards back in that time, you have to say that Harold Larwood was arguably the greatest express pace bowler ever. He bowled 165 kph with a run up of only a few steps like Jasprit Bumrah and still generated so much pace and fear.

Cricket fans of this generation who have grown up believing Akhtar, Lee were the fastest have no idea what really tezzi was all about back in the day. We are all unlucky to have born in an era when we have been seriously deprived of sonic pace.

With that i rest my case.

For any query you may contact my trusted friends and historians [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION]e all of whom are minimum 50 years of age.

Regards
Bhaijaan

Bhaijaan has got it wrong. Tyson and Larwood were closer to 180-190 kph. Brother junaids has already clarified that.

 

[Irtasam]

Haven't seen anyone from the 80s and before, so can't say much. How about Ntini and Bond from the modern era?

 

[Robert]

Of who you saw who were the fastest?Imran in club of express pace?Who was most lethal amongst express pace?

Marshall.

 

[Monsee]

There was a time around 1981-82 when Holding’s speed started to drop and before the emergence of Marshall when Imran was the world’s fastest.

Yep, right around the Australia series and Indian series at home, he was at his peak speeds...that was right before losing his peak period to a 2 1/2 years absence because of the shin injury. My guess is, around that time he was bowling in the high 80's and occassionally touching the 90+ MPH speeds

 

[Monsee]

The bowler I despised the most was Croft and scare factor wise no one gets close to Sylvester Clark, that dude's stare was enough to make you wanna go hide!

Express pace and most lethal has to be Marshall, in some spells Holding, Lillee, even Imran in some spells. Thompson was always in and out due to Injury and rest of the bowlers did not generate the most lethal at pace factor although Steyn got the closest for sustained time period, he was that good!

In an ideal world, I would have loved to see Mohammad Zahid and Bond stay injury free and bowl at express pace for a period of 5 years to see what sort of damage they could have done!

 

[BreadPakoda]

Bhaijaan has got it wrong. Tyson and Larwood were closer to 180-190 kph. Brother junaids has already clarified that.

Only Mohammad Zaid and Atul Sharma could come close

 

[Robert]

The bowler I despised the most was Croft and scare factor wise no one gets close to Sylvester Clark, that dude's stare was enough to make you wanna go hide!

I remember Jonathan Agnew writing about Clark. Something to the effect that - You can keep your Marshalls and your Imrans, Clark is the most intimidating bowler in the CC and the Surrey boys know it. Apparently off the pitch he is a nice bloke. I would not know - on it, he is a complete maniac.

 

[JattMaula]

Bhaijaan has got it wrong. Tyson and Larwood were closer to 180-190 kph. Brother junaids has already clarified that.

Unreal pace. Wish modern humans were as capable. Mutation and degeneration of our species into the weaklings in just one or two generations is the real scary thing.

 

[Rightarmfast]

Yep, right around the Australia series and Indian series at home, he was at his peak speeds...that was right before losing his peak period to a 2 1/2 years absence because of the shin injury. My guess is, around that time he was bowling in the high 80's and occassionally touching the 90+ MPH speeds

Bang on! Thats about the right speed he used to bowl when bowling at his fastest.
Anybody remembers Patrick Patterson?

 

[Robert]

Bang on! Thats about the right speed he used to bowl when bowling at his fastest.
Anybody remembers Patrick Patterson?

Yeah. I didn't see 'Batterson' at his lightning best in WI 1986/7 when he was quicker than Marshall, but remember him in the 1991 series in England. He was a bit slower then and the slower lower wickets did not help him.

 

[ssuhaide]

Tymal Mills

 

[Monsee]

I remember Jonathan Agnew writing about Clark. Something to the effect that - You can keep your Marshalls and your Imrans, Clark is the most intimidating bowler in the CC and the Surrey boys know it. Apparently off the pitch he is a nice bloke. I would not know - on it, he is a complete maniac.

Unfortunately that one kid in Multan did not get a chance to know him much outside the ground :-(

I saw him live against Pakistan in the 1986 (?) tour, unreal, menacing, and scary as heck...all other WI super bowlers were present bar Holding (I think) but he just was the lone scare crow!

 

[Monsee]

^^^WI's 1980 tour to Pakistan

 

[MMHS]

please come here pp fans. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION]

I'll change the order a bit -

1. Waqar Younis
2. Michael Holding
3. Alan Donald
4. Shoaib Akhtar
5. Jeff Thompson
6. Wes Hall
7. Sylvester Clarke
8. Mitchel Johnson
9. Pat Patterson
10. Brett Lee

Not sure how fast was Larwood, but Tyson was fast; but I have excluded three fast bowlers here with less than 100 Test wickets - Tyson, Mo Zahid & Bond.

 

[Robert]

Bhaijaan has got it wrong. Tyson and Larwood were closer to 180-190 kph. Brother junaids has already clarified that.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is prone to exaggeration at times. I think Larwood bowled at 90 mph, looking at where the slips were standing to him. Tyson maybe a bit faster, but the old Typhoon blew himself out in two years.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is prone to exaggeration at times. I think Larwood bowled at 90 mph, looking at where the slips were standing to him. Tyson maybe a bit faster, but the old Typhoon blew himself out in two years.

I'm sure he was fast for his era but I doubt the 90 mph part. Don't think it's possible t generate that kind of pace with his run up and action.

 

[JibranAnsari]

What about ian bishop.? Was he a tearaway?

 

[Monsee]

What about ian bishop.? Was he a tearaway?

Too short of a cereer but he was absolutely lethal in the first part of his career, sort of like Waqar; both were scary fast at the start of their careers but then injuries took over and they were never the same again!

Bishop definitely had the potential to rewrite Marshall's story again and some IMO!

 

[trickyone]

Where is Imran Khan?

 

[Rightarmfast]

Yeah. I didn't see 'Batterson' at his lightning best in WI 1986/7 when he was quicker than Marshall, but remember him in the 1991 series in England. He was a bit slower then and the slower lower wickets did not help him.

What about Devon Malcolm?

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cricket/expert-opinion/jeff-thomsons-top-10-fast-bowlers-of-all-time/news-story/723d03e7cf3d26afb205e4dffb149c71

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Jeff Thomson’s top 10 fast bowlers of all time

When I talk great fast bowlers I talk fear.

In sorting out my top 10 quicks of the last 50 years I went for the type of bowlers batsmen like facing least – quick, dangerous and accurate. Nasty fasties.

There’s no Poms on my list – and I won’t apologise for that.

I know people will say I should have included Jimmy Anderson who has taken 600 Test wickets but I just couldn’t have him.

He may be a decent swing bowler but on the Scare Scale he would not have frightened me – and I’m a tailender.

So a drum roll please for …

10 Glenn McGrath (Australia)

Most of the names above him blasted out batsmen – he strangled them. Some will say given his record he should have been higher and I get that. Pace wise he was not quite up with some others on the list. That slightly dimmed the fear factor but I must give him great credit because he was one of most efficient, effective bowlers of all time.

9 Michael Holding (West Indies)

The smoothest action of the lot but would have got a lot more wickets if he wasn’t so nice. A bit like Carl Rackemann in that he tried to look angry but it just wasn’t him. Batsmen can consider themselves lucky he wasn’t a nasty piece of work because he could have been something else.

8 Joel Garner (West Indies)

Could be the scariest of the lot on his day when he would be as quick as anyone. He used to bring me bottles of rum from the West Indies thinking it might slow me down but it actually fired me up. Big Bird was just a nightmare because in facing this giant of a man it was almost as if the ball was being dropped from a tall building.

I lost count of the amount of times I heard batsmen come back to the dressing room after facing Joel and say “I just couldn’t do anything with him … he kept hitting high on the bat … he gave me nothing.’’ Had a Test bowling average of 20.97 per wicket. Enough said.

7 Dale Steyn (South Africa)

Swung the ball at great pace. Had a crazy-eyed stare which didn’t go astray in the intimidation department either. I sense he was the quick of his generation batsmen least enjoyed facing. That counts.

6 Curtly Ambrose (West Indies)

Bounce is a lethal weapon for any fast man and he got it as much as anyone. Add pace and batsmen have got serious problems. Viv Richards once said Curtly had one of the biggest hearts he’s seen. Aggressive in a different sort of way, he deliberately didn’t talk to opponents but didn’t have to. The quality of his work did the trick.

5 Allan Donald (South Africa)

Great action, aggressive, as quick as anybody else on this list and a true athlete, he had everything I look for in a fast bowler. Took 330 Test wickets but would have been hundreds more had the first half of his career not been lost to the apartheid era in South Africa. I liked his body language and his stare. Just having him armed and dangerous did a lot for the confidence of South African teams in the early post-apartheid era.

4 Richard Hadlee (New Zealand)

Had a healthy ego and carried a team of average bowlers but that also helped him because it meant he got the chance to bowl more. Bowled a quick bouncer, could seam and swing the ball at will and another with great endurance who bowled a million overs in county cricket and somehow just kept going.

3 Dennis Lillee (Australia)

Drive, ego, determination. And courage. He had back injuries that could have left him in a wheelchair. When they were tinkering with his back no-one knew much at all about back surgery.

The worse the scenario the harder he tried.

The main difference between Dennis and the top two was that he never played a Test in India and just three Tests (for three wickets) in Pakistan.

We were mates and still are. But we also drove each other. If he got wickets I was desperate to match him and vice versa.

2 Wasim Akram (Pakistan)

Where do we start? Sizzling pace delivered with a left armed angle via an action so well grooved he could have bowled blindfolded. He made the ball “talk’’ more than anyone else on this list yet the quality I admired most of all was his endurance. He bowled quick for 20 years, taking more than 1000 first class wickets playing for English counties and his country. He played 356 ODIs. A machine.

1 Malcolm Marshall (West Indies)

My first pick during my playing days and nothing I have seen since has changed my belief that he is the best fast bowler the game has seen in the last 50 years – perhaps ever. He just had it all – blistering pace, movement both ways and a great cricket brain which enabled him to come up with plans that made the most of his skills.

Could bowl anywhere. Averaged 24 per wicket in India and 21 in Pakistan. Incredible.

To boot he is the nicest bloke of the lot of them. A gentleman fast bowler – there aren’t many of them!

 

[Robert]

On Patrick Patterson.

I read an article to the effect that since retiring from professional cricket he has been a recluse with mental health issues. He survives on money sent from his children who live in North America.

A very sad article to read. At Patto’s peak he was terrifying, quicker than Marshall, supposedly the fastest of the lot according to Jeff Dujon. Now he has succumbed to paranoid thoughts.