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How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

Buffet said:
Why not counter it? It should be easy to use your own filter. Era differences can be tackled by seeing what bowlers did in their own era relative to others.

A perfect example of above poster telling me that I did not watch Wasim in 80s. I should not have any opinion on him or share stats. I should just accept opinions that Wasim was elite level in 80s despite having 28 avg. Now small possibility exist that, 28 avg may mean different in different era but it's not hard to simply check what other players did in 80s when Wasim averages 28. It takes 30 seconds.
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Your analysis on Bumrah vs Lohman or Sidney Barnes please?
 
BCCI-Enforcer said:
Your analysis on Bumrah vs Lohman or Sidney Barnes please?
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I don't have any and neither consider those era much of significance.

Having said that, I do see Bradman as the best simply due to him being so far ahead of others. I am aware of other side of arguments as well due to myself making it at times, but after considering everything I see him as the best bat in history. If others want to ignore then it's fine too. Other than that, I see mostly after 1970 when we had many competitive teams play without people having a part time jobs or only priviledged ones playing it.
 
sweep_shot said:
There are 3 issues I see with @Buffet's stats:

1) He tends to filter things as per his whims and desires. There is no standard filtering method.

2) He tends to post more stats if it makes Indian players look good. If not, he doesn't post stats or posts less stats. :yk

3) He tends to ignore the era differences. Bumrah getting wicket of Konstas or Finch is not same as Wasim taking wicket of Mark Waugh or Mark Taylor, for example.
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@Buffet 's stats are very unbiased and fair. They are the standard-est of standard filters.

Era differences don't make sense. Bumrah has also gotten Root and Smith a few times, both of whom are better than Mark Waugh and Mark Taylor. Wasim has also got wickets of lots of no name players as well as a high proportion of tailenders.
 
sweep_shot said:
There are 3 issues I see with @Buffet's stats:

1) He tends to filter things as per his whims and desires. There is no standard filtering method.

2) He tends to post more stats if it makes Indian players look good. If not, he doesn't post stats or posts less stats. :yk

3) He tends to ignore the era differences. Bumrah getting wicket of Konstas or Finch is not same as Wasim taking wicket of Mark Waugh or Mark Taylor, for example.
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Why dont you you counter him then?
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Another very important and crucial point. We have ex players who are constantly trying to implement ideas to make TEST CRICKET competitive again bar the so called big THREE.

Its clear, the standard currently is the weakest I've seen of any era. Both bowlers, and batsmen, bar the few has declined to a all time low.
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It's better than ever before 90s era etc we're embroiled in match fixing, scandals and biased umpiring. Was worsw before 90s
 
Caved12 said:
The game of cricket has undergone a complete transformation over the past 35 to 40 years, evolving in ways that make direct comparisons between players from different eras almost meaningless. Advancements in technology, analytics, and player preparation have fundamentally changed how the game is played and approached.

Today’s bowlers benefit from extensive data on opposition players, grounds, and pitches, which helps them strategize to an unprecedented degree. They have access to better accommodations, training facilities, and recovery methods. Modern recovery techniques, from massage therapists to advanced equipment that addresses muscle knots and niggles, allow players to stay at peak fitness. Load management is now a routine part of player management, ensuring that they are not overworked.

The science of nutrition has also reached new heights, with supplements and diet plans tailored to maximize performance and recovery. Tours are scheduled well in advance, allowing players to plan and prepare meticulously for the challenges ahead. All of this ensures that today’s players, including bowlers, are in the best possible mental and physical condition to perform.

However, when comparing bowlers like Jasprit Bumrah to legends such as Wasim Akram, Imran Khan, and Waqar Younis, you cannot rely solely on modern stats. These stats are influenced by a host of factors that were not available to players from earlier eras. Players like Wasim, Imran, and Waqar achieved their greatness in an era without the resources, infrastructure, and support systems that modern players take for granted. They had to rely on skill, instinct, and relentless hard work, often playing under conditions that were far more grueling than what today’s players experience.

If you take the time to watch these legends bowl, you will notice their superior run-ups, speeds, follow-throughs, and overall skill sets. Wasim Akram revolutionized swing bowling, showing the world how to move the ball both ways with unmatched control and precision. Imran Khan redefined the art of reverse swing and inspired a generation to understand the importance of fitness and mental toughness for bowlers. Waqar Younis introduced devastating toe crushing yorkers and elevated reverse swing to a level that few could imagine. These legends didn’t just succeed, they introduced new techniques and ideas that changed the game forever, paving the way for future generations to improve.

Using stats alone to claim that Bumrah is better is an oversimplification and ignores the nuances of cricket’s evolution. While Bumrah is undoubtedly a world-class bowler in today’s era, the argument that he is better than Wasim Akram, Imran Khan, or Waqar Younis doesn’t hold water when you consider the conditions, challenges, and limited resources those legends faced.

Cricket is not just about numbers. It is about the context in which those numbers were achieved, the challenges that were overcome, and the sheer brilliance displayed on the field. Comparing players across eras requires a deeper understanding of these factors, not just a glance at stats.

I have said what I needed to say and have nothing more to add. You can continue using whatever filter you prefer for your comparisons, but I will not engage further.
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Yea past players don't mean they are better. Don't live in nostalgia. Players don't go backwards until quality. They learn from the past.

But great players will be great anywhere.

Waqar was not a true great. Sorry

Imran and wasim yes.
 
IMMY69 said:
I'm sick to death of posts quoting stats.
Please stop.

So much nonsense
Did you actually watch Wasim play in the 80's?

Honestly these pathetic arguments using stats are nonsensical
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What should he use? PPs mythical TAILUNT" meter?
 
"IK and WA weren't dominant in their eras, but Bumrah is"

Did it occur to you that in thr era's Imran and wasim played in their were a large and better pool of fast bowlers in world cricket.

Performing in SENA isn't the be and end all for Asian bowlers either, even conditions in different Asian conditions aren't exactly the same. But as usual the whole argument is stats vs stats. The fact this guy like to use no context says it all.

Bumrah has done well in Australia. Yet has won a series in NZ, SA or England

Yet if other Asian bowlers have won series in England, NZ etc.. it's dismissed etc..

Also rather then just looking at stats, how about looking at context within a series.

Wasim Akram Was main reasons why Pakistan won both tests in 92 series in England, also 2 test wins in new zealand in 90s, including defending 123 in one test. Yet this guy wants to act like wasim didn't perform in tests in SENA, etc..

An entire tests series stats alone doesn't tell you the impact of certain player in all those under lying tests.

The guy things because he can use statsguru with all the filters, makes him knowledge about what's going.

Well done for others exposing his rubbish as well.
 
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Amjid Javed said:
"IK and WA weren't dominant in their eras, but Bumrah is"

Did it occur to you that in thr era's Imran and wasim played in their were a large and better pool of fast bowlers in world cricket.

Performing in SENA isn't the be and end all for Asian bowlers either, even conditions in different Asian conditions aren't exactly the same. But as usual the whole argument is stats vs stats. The fact this guy like to use no context says it all.

Bumrah has done well in Australia. Yet has won a series in NZ, SA or England

Yet if other Asian bowlers have won series in England, NZ etc.. it's dismissed etc..

Also rather then just looking at stats, how about looking at context within a series.

Wasim Akram Was main reasons why Pakistan won both tests in 92 series in England, also 2 test wins in new zealand in 90s, including defending 123 in one test. Yet this guy wants to act like wasim didn't perform in tests in SENA, etc..

An entire tests series stats alone doesn't tell you the impact of certain player in all those under lying tests.

The guy things because he can use statsguru with all the filters, makes him knowledge about what's going.
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Its a team game. Nz and e gland in 90s weren't strong btw. So no doesn't count as much. He failed mostly in aus and SA.
 
Amjid Javed said:
"IK and WA weren't dominant in their eras, but Bumrah is"

Did it occur to you that in thr era's Imran and wasim played in their were a large and better pool of fast bowlers in world cricket.

Performing in SENA isn't the be and end all for Asian bowlers either, even conditions in different Asian conditions aren't exactly the same. But as usual the whole argument is stats vs stats. The fact this guy like to use no context says it all.

Bumrah has done well in Australia. Yet has won a series in NZ, SA or England

Yet if other Asian bowlers have won series in England, NZ etc.. it's dismissed etc..

Also rather then just looking at stats, how about looking at context within a series.

Wasim Akram Was main reasons why Pakistan won both tests in 92 series in England, also 2 test wins in new zealand in 90s, including defending 123 in one test. Yet this guy wants to act like wasim didn't perform in tests in SENA, etc..

An entire tests series stats alone doesn't tell you the impact of certain player in all those under lying tests.

The guy things because he can use statsguru with all the filters, makes him knowledge about what's going.
Click to expand...
Its like saying eg Holyfield who lost many games early 90s would be rubbish today just because he wasn't the most dominating then. Or Joe Fraizer wouldn't be dominant today just because he wasn't then. Or someone like Jonty Rhodes would be rubbish in SA's team just because he wasn't the most dominant then. He then replied with 'this doesn't count as Waqar wasn't even the top 10 amongst his peers'. The same Waqar who has a better record than Bumrah getting to 200 wickets, in averages and games. Never mind Wasim or Imran Khan.

Also again, both W's have nearly 700-1000 wickets, each. This guy barely has 330 in all formats. Its like tomorrow a player scores 200 goals and everyone claims he's better than Messi when he has not won a single top trophy or even matched Messi's goal scoring spree by a 1/3rd.
 
Amjid Javed said:
"IK and WA weren't dominant in their eras, but Bumrah is"

Did it occur to you that in thr era's Imran and wasim played in their were a large and better pool of fast bowlers in world cricket.

Performing in SENA isn't the be and end all for Asian bowlers either, even conditions in different Asian conditions aren't exactly the same. But as usual the whole argument is stats vs stats. The fact this guy like to use no context says it all.

Bumrah has done well in Australia. Yet has won a series in NZ, SA or England

Yet if other Asian bowlers have won series in England, NZ etc.. it's dismissed etc..

Also rather then just looking at stats, how about looking at context within a series.

Wasim Akram Was main reasons why Pakistan won both tests in 92 series in England, also 2 test wins in new zealand in 90s, including defending 123 in one test. Yet this guy wants to act like wasim didn't perform in tests in SENA, etc..

An entire tests series stats alone doesn't tell you the impact of certain player in all those under lying tests.

The guy things because he can use statsguru with all the filters, makes him knowledge about what's going.

Well done for others exposing his rubbish as well.
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They're also obsessed with SENA all of a sudden just because they won in Australia. Yet remain as average in other SENA countries as ever. And now suddenly Australia is the holy grail.
 
The fact that not a single Indian understands, that stats need context to show their real worth. Shows how clueless they are.

Prime is example is talking about a 5 wicket haul for example.

You can have a scenario where a bowler

Example 1 - takes 5 wickets, while his team his defending 250 runs.

Example 2 - takes 3 wickets, while his team is defending 250

Most people will just look at the 5 for and say that's better.

Yet the context of the 3 wickets, might have been the team chasing were 200/3 and 3 wickets taken were of well set batsmen and ultimately changed the game

Is a stats guru filter going to tell you that? No it's not, so all these stats about impact tell you nothing unless you going through the underlying tests, results of the games, the match situation when the wickets take etc...

Like I said before Buffet clear lack of common sense and context is there for everyone to expose.

A 3 or 4 wicket haul in an inns, where it impacts the result of game in some cases can be more impactful then a few more wickets in a game where the result is a forgone conclusion.

It's Not always the case on tue above, but unless your analysing the entire series, underlying games etc. Just posting stats to suit an agenda is a load of rubbish.
 
sweep_shot said:
There are 3 issues I see with @Buffet's stats:

1) He tends to filter things as per his whims and desires. There is no standard filtering method.

2) He tends to post more stats if it makes Indian players look good. If not, he doesn't post stats or posts less stats. :yk

3) He tends to ignore the era differences. Bumrah getting wicket of Konstas or Finch is not same as Wasim taking wicket of Mark Waugh or Mark Taylor, for example.
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The biggest problem with people who obsess over stats are that their unable to actually make any qualitative arguments.

For example Rizwan replaced Fakhar and batted ahead of saim in t20. Stats wise rizwan seems to be the better opener but anyone with a brain cell can tell that Fakhar + Saim are better options to open in any format.

The same can be argued here, Bumrah has literally taken India out of the wtc and his most humilating moment of 2024 is not being able to win a test game vs Aus in the 4th odi simply cause he couldn't get rid of tail enders and allowed aus to create an impossible lead for India.

Before NZ series, it was obvious that India would qualify and face either sa or Aus. Bumrah's rubbish bowling ensured India's most humilating defeat at home and he got booted out of wtc.

People can latch onto that 19 avg all they want. But dismissing someone like konstas is vastly different from mcgrath winning 3 culs in a row and owning Sachin across eras.

Sachin would have retired with a 50 avg in odi and 55 to 58 avg in tests if it weren't for mcgrath.
 
mominsaigol said:
The biggest problem with people who obsess over stats are that their unable to actually make any qualitative arguments.

For example Rizwan replaced Fakhar and batted ahead of saim in t20. Stats wise rizwan seems to be the better opener but anyone with a brain cell can tell that Fakhar + Saim are better options to open in any format.

The same can be argued here, Bumrah has literally taken India out of the wtc and his most humilating moment of 2024 is not being able to win a test game vs Aus in the 4th odi simply cause he couldn't get rid of tail enders and allowed aus to create an impossible lead for India.

Before NZ series, it was obvious that India would qualify and face either sa or Aus. Bumrah's rubbish bowling ensured India's most humilating defeat at home and he got booted out of wtc.

People can latch onto that 19 avg all they want. But dismissing someone like konstas is vastly different from mcgrath winning 3 culs in a row and owning Sachin across eras.

Sachin would have retired with a 50 avg in odi and 55 to 58 avg in tests if it weren't for mcgrath.
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@sweep_shot

Only Indians can put a 0 10 wicket haul taking bowler with literally half the wickets of wasim, 0 odi trophy wins + 3 chokes + 45 avg vs A single team + responsible for taking India out of wtc contention as The greatest pacer ever because stats say that one bowler avg 19 🤣🤣🤣.
 
kron said:
Its a team game. Nz and e gland in 90s weren't strong btw. So no doesn't count as much. He failed mostly in aus and SA.
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It's funny how when Indian don't win tests with Sachin or bumrah it's a "team game" but when they do it's because Sachin and bumrah are ATG

Quit with the contradictory bull crap.

SA are the weakest they have been since readmission currently. Even England aren't that great. They were trash under Joe root, even their bazball test results aren't great

But typical Indians rewriting history, to pick and choose what's strong and isn't strong to suit an agenda
 
Amjid Javed said:
"IK and WA weren't dominant in their eras, but Bumrah is"

Did it occur to you that in thr era's Imran and wasim played in their were a large and better pool of fast bowlers in world cricket.

Performing in SENA isn't the be and end all for Asian bowlers either, even conditions in different Asian conditions aren't exactly the same. But as usual the whole argument is stats vs stats. The fact this guy like to use no context says it all.

Bumrah has done well in Australia. Yet has won a series in NZ, SA or England

Yet if other Asian bowlers have won series in England, NZ etc.. it's dismissed etc..

Also rather then just looking at stats, how about looking at context within a series.

Wasim Akram Was main reasons why Pakistan won both tests in 92 series in England, also 2 test wins in new zealand in 90s, including defending 123 in one test. Yet this guy wants to act like wasim didn't perform in tests in SENA, etc..

An entire tests series stats alone doesn't tell you the impact of certain player in all those under lying tests.

The guy things because he can use statsguru with all the filters, makes him knowledge about what's going.

Well done for others exposing his rubbish as well.
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England and NZ of 90s were weak teams. Check their W/L ratio.

Of course it is dismissed as the entire argument is in bad faith.

I can make the argument that Wasim never won in WI while Bumrah helped India whitewash WI in 2019 averaging 9 and being Man of the Series.

But I won't as the WI Bumrah face is a pale version of the WI Wasim faced (and Wasim couldn't win against a good not great WI in the 90s-00s as well, which was not as strong as the 80s team).

The strong teams in Wasim's time were Aus, SA and WI. Never won a series anywhere. Drew a few.

The strong teams in Bumrah's times were Aus, NZ, SA, Eng. Won two series in Aus. Drew a few.

Bringing up Wasim's series wins against the weak NZ/Eng teams (W/L ratio of 0.5 and 0.6 in the 90's btw) is as dumb as bringing up Bumrah's series wins against a weak WI team (W/L ratio of 0.5 in the 2010s).

This is just cope by Pakistani posters.

Earlier Indians didn't have a bowler on the level of Bumrah so just kept quiet but now when they are exposing the almost gospel like myth of Wasim being on the level of McGrath, Marshall, Hadlee etc as a red ball bowler which he never was, they can't take it.

Wasim as a red ball bowler is a tier 2 ATG which is great. That is basically Dravid, Sangakarra, Younis Khan level not Sachin, Lara, Smith level which is fine.

They just can't take India having a tier 1 pacer while they don't.
 
mominsaigol said:
@sweep_shot

Only Indians can put a 0 10 wicket haul taking bowler with literally half the wickets of wasim, 0 odi trophy wins + 3 chokes + 45 avg vs A single team + responsible for taking India out of wtc contention as The greatest pacer ever because stats say that one bowler avg 19 🤣🤣🤣.
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Lol

Only pak can call wasim with 0 away series wins against a top team + 4 chokes (87,96,99,03) + 39 avg in SA + responsible for pak crashing out of 4 world cups as the greatest asian pacer because "vibes"
 
Amjid Javed said:
It's funny how when Indian don't win tests with Sachin or bumrah it's a "team game" but when they do it's because Sachin and bumrah are ATG

Quit with the contradictory bull crap.

SA are the weakest they have been since readmission currently. Even England aren't that great. They were trash under Joe root, even their bazball test results aren't great

But typical Indians rewriting history, to pick and choose what's strong and isn't strong to suit an agenda
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SA attack is literally their best ever attack since steym retired

Get glasses or maybe watch another sport.

Burger rabada jansen nortje and add in coetze

Beast attack
They will run through your 90s so called goat team.

No one is picking ans choosing.
 
Amjid Javed said:
It's funny how when Indian don't win tests with Sachin or bumrah it's a "team game" but when they do it's because Sachin and bumrah are ATG

Quit with the contradictory bull crap.

SA are the weakest they have been since readmission currently. Even England aren't that great. They were trash under Joe root, even their bazball test results aren't great

But typical Indians rewriting history, to pick and choose what's strong and isn't strong to suit an agenda
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SA currently are still way stronger than NZ/Eng of the 90s.

SA have beat/drawn against every team except Eng at home. Look at what they are currently doing to Pak.

90s Eng/NZ lost a lot.

Current England are again way better than 90s Eng/NZ.

90s Eng/NZ are on current WI level (against whom Bumrah won a series) where Wasim never won.

No one is rewriting history. Just check W/L ratios for those teams.
 
Pakpak said:
Its like saying eg Holyfield who lost many games early 90s would be rubbish today just because he wasn't the most dominating then. Or Joe Fraizer wouldn't be dominant today just because he wasn't then. Or someone like Jonty Rhodes would be rubbish in SA's team just because he wasn't the most dominant then. He then replied with 'this doesn't count as Waqar wasn't even the top 10 amongst his peers'. The same Waqar who has a better record than Bumrah getting to 200 wickets, in averages and games. Never mind Wasim or Imran Khan.

Also again, both W's have nearly 700-1000 wickets, each. This guy barely has 330 in all formats. Its like tomorrow a player scores 200 goals and everyone claims he's better than Messi when he has not won a single top trophy or even matched Messi's goal scoring spree by a 1/3rd.
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Those wickets are in white ball. ODI they are great. But red ball Bumrah > both.
 
mominsaigol said:
The biggest problem with people who obsess over stats are that their unable to actually make any qualitative arguments.

For example Rizwan replaced Fakhar and batted ahead of saim in t20. Stats wise rizwan seems to be the better opener but anyone with a brain cell can tell that Fakhar + Saim are better options to open in any format.

The same can be argued here, Bumrah has literally taken India out of the wtc and his most humilating moment of 2024 is not being able to win a test game vs Aus in the 4th odi simply cause he couldn't get rid of tail enders and allowed aus to create an impossible lead for India.

Before NZ series, it was obvious that India would qualify and face either sa or Aus. Bumrah's rubbish bowling ensured India's most humilating defeat at home and he got booted out of wtc.

People can latch onto that 19 avg all they want. But dismissing someone like konstas is vastly different from mcgrath winning 3 culs in a row and owning Sachin across eras.

Sachin would have retired with a 50 avg in odi and 55 to 58 avg in tests if it weren't for mcgrath.
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Comparison isn't with McGrath but the loser Wasim who won a sum total of ONE match in Aus in his career.
 
Pakpak said:
They're also obsessed with SENA all of a sudden just because they won in Australia. Yet remain as average in other SENA countries as ever. And now suddenly Australia is the holy grail.
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Also drew in SA and Eng.

And SENA are the best teams of the era (apart from India)

India also has been winning in WI over many years now (Against whom Pak has struggled). No one brings that up cause WI is weak.

Pak currently is on it's way to an eight consecutive whitewash in the southern hemisphere so they are not even "below average".
 
saimayubera said:
Lol

Only pak can call wasim with 0 away series wins against a top team + 4 chokes (87,96,99,03) + 39 avg in SA + responsible for pak crashing out of 4 world cups as the greatest asian pacer because "vibes"
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Nice try except for the fact that Wasim has only played 2 test games in sa. 🤣🤣. He owned sa in pakistan lol and brought the avg down to 29.

Bumrah avg 45 ahainat NZ after playing a billion games againat them( and yes billion is sarcasm, don't make me spell it out)

Secondly sa was 100x stronger back then. Kallis is literally > your abu God in test cricket but ofcourse you'll disagree on it as well.

Secondly wasim has actually won a cup for his country. His 1992 performance is something bumrah hasn't replicated even once in his career for India.

Don't apply these rubbish filters on me.
 
saimayubera said:
Comparison isn't with McGrath but the loser Wasim who won a sum total of ONE match in Aus in his career.
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And loser bumrah got whitewashed in his own den and got India kicked out of WTC. Williamson and latham badly neutralised him.

I don't recall India ever getting whitewashed 3-0 at home since the dawn of the 21st century. That's clearly a record.
 
Pakpak said:
Its like saying eg Holyfield who lost many games early 90s would be rubbish today just because he wasn't the most dominating then. Or Joe Fraizer wouldn't be dominant today just because he wasn't then. Or someone like Jonty Rhodes would be rubbish in SA's team just because he wasn't the most dominant then. He then replied with 'this doesn't count as Waqar wasn't even the top 10 amongst his peers'. The same Waqar who has a better record than Bumrah getting to 200 wickets, in averages and games. Never mind Wasim or Imran Khan.

Also again, both W's have nearly 700-1000 wickets, each. This guy barely has 330 in all formats. Its like tomorrow a player scores 200 goals and everyone claims he's better than Messi when he has not won a single top trophy or even matched Messi's goal scoring spree by a 1/3rd.
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Except for the fact that Bumrah has won the same number of ICC trophies as Wasim, Waqar, Imran combined as well as won more series in Aus than all three combined.

If you bring up NZ/Eng well bring up WI as well.

That is the issue - Pak pacers aren't Messi, more Ronaldinho as much as Pak posters would like to believe otherwise. Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath are the Messi class.

And Waqar statpadded like crazy against weak teams, his records against strong teams are as weak as hell.
 
mominsaigol said:
And loser bumrah got whitewashed in his own den and got India kicked out of WTC. Williamson and latham badly neutralised him.

I don't recall India ever getting whitewashed 3-0 at home since the dawn of the 21st century. That's clearly a record.
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You guys lost to Zimbabwe iirc. With wasim playing. And 3 0 vs aus home and away too.
 
saimayubera said:
SA currently are still way stronger than NZ/Eng of the 90s.

SA have beat/drawn against every team except Eng at home. Look at what they are currently doing to Pak.

90s Eng/NZ lost a lot.

Current England are again way better than 90s Eng/NZ.

90s Eng/NZ are on current WI level (against whom Bumrah won a series) where Wasim never won.

No one is rewriting history. Just check W/L ratios for those teams.
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🤣🤣

W/L ratios again zero context, have you looked at who those wins have come against?

Current SA is the worst since Readmission, just because they are beating even worse sides in Pakistan, WI, Bangladesh and SL doesn't mean they are a strong side.

SA away from home against Pakistan, India, NZ, Aus, Eng have been woeful in the last away series they have played.

Now you making comparison on strength looking at W/L ratios without even looking at who they played or series results.

Clueless as always.
 
L
mominsaigol said:
Nice try except for the fact that Wasim has only played 2 test games in sa. 🤣🤣. He owned sa in pakistan lol and brought the avg down to 29.

Bumrah avg 45 ahainat NZ after playing a billion games againat them( and yes billion is sarcasm, don't make me spell it out)

Secondly sa was 100x stronger back then. Kallis is literally > your abu God in test cricket but ofcourse you'll disagree on it as well.

Secondly wasim has actually won a cup for his country. His 1992 performance is something bumrah hasn't replicated even once in his career for India.

Don't apply these rubbish filters on me.
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Lmao early to mid 90s SA weren't that strong at all. Even India only lost 1 0 away from home in a 4 tests series there in early 90s.

And SA attack right now at full strength is better than any attack of theirs in the past.
 
Pakistani poster's main point of contention is that they lived in this lalala land about their trio being in the top echelon of pacers when they were a tier below and Indians never said anything cause they didn't have anyone comparable.

Now that Indians are seeing through the ********, Pak posters can't take it.

Wasim, Waqar, Imran aren't Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee. Their away records are relatively poor, their stats against better teams relatively poor, series wons not that impressive. Even in white ball cricket, just one world cup between them.

Judging by Pak psoters, you would feel that Pak were the top team of the 80s and 90s while in reality they were the 2nd best test team of the 80s (behind WI) and 3rd best in the 90s (behind Aus/SA).
 
Amjid Javed said:
🤣🤣

W/L ratios again zero context, have you looked at who those wins have come against?

Current SA is the worst since Readmission, just because they are beating even worse sides in Pakistan, WI, Bangladesh and SL doesn't mean they are a strong side.

SA away from home against Pakistan, India, NZ, Aus, Eng have been woeful in the last away series they have played.

Now you making comparison on strength looking at W/L ratios without even looking at who they played or series results.

Clueless as always.
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That is way better than 90s Eng/NZ.

We are talking home records.

SA has defeated everyone bar England and drew with Ind.

90s Eng/NZ lost to all and sundry.
 
Romali_rotti said:
@IMMY69 bro Joshilla makes a valid point here.

P.S. I feel Wasim is better than Bumrah based on longevity and his ability as a batsmen.
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As a batsman/player yes. As a bowler no.

Not longevity. The gap between Bumrah and Wasim is bigger than the gap between Wasim and Anderson.

Using that logic, Anderson > Wasim due to "longetivity".
 
saimayubera said:
39 in SA.

Does Bumrah average more than 31 IN any country?
Click to expand...
He played 2 games in sa only. Very small sample size. I told you to get rid of your rubbish filters.

He avg 29 vs Sa as a whole. No great bowler avg 45 against any team, Not take any 10 wicket hauls when boland literally just achieved in this series followed by the fact that his wicket tally is half of wasim while his choke tally his double that of wasim.

Don't think anyone has costed India more cups and booted then out of wtc cycles then lord Bumrah. Latham owned him 🤣🤣🥰
 
kron said:
SA attack is literally their best ever attack since steym retired

Get glasses or maybe watch another sport.

Burger rabada jansen nortje and add in coetze

Beast attack
They will run through your 90s so called goat team.

No one is picking ans choosing.
Click to expand...
SA bowling attack is a good level, their batting is utter trash.

Why don't you name the one world class bastmen in their line up?

The fact that SA haven't won a test series on their last visits to Pakistan, India, NZ, Aus and England, pretty much been hammered in most of those series shows how weak they are.

If you think overall SA team is strong your deluded. The SA team is carried by its bowlers.
 
mominsaigol said:
Nice try except for the fact that Wasim has only played 2 test games in sa. 🤣🤣. He owned sa in pakistan lol and brought the avg down to 29.

Bumrah avg 45 ahainat NZ after playing a billion games againat them( and yes billion is sarcasm, don't make me spell it out)

Secondly sa was 100x stronger back then. Kallis is literally > your abu God in test cricket but ofcourse you'll disagree on it as well.

Secondly wasim has actually won a cup for his country. His 1992 performance is something bumrah hasn't replicated even once in his career for India.

Don't apply these rubbish filters on me.
Click to expand...
Wasim has won the same number of cups Bumrah has - ONE. Wasim chickening out in 1996 is something no decent bowler has ever replicated.

Wasim played 2 tests in SA. Doesn't change the fact he averaged 39 there.

Kallis literally became good in the 00s, post Wasim's career. Wasim was very poor against mid level batsmen in SA. A 39 average looks very poor/
 
Bumrah & Tendulkar on the same side for the Border-Gavaskar Trophy in 1999 in Aus against McGrath and Warne.

That would have been one heck of a contest, Aus would win the series as they were unbeatable at home playing with 13 players on the field during those days. However Indians give the Aussies a major scare and get a draw making it 2-0 rather than a 3-0 Whitewash..
 
mominsaigol said:
He played 2 games in sa only. Very small sample size. I told you to get rid of your rubbish filters.

He avg 29 vs Sa as a whole. No great bowler avg 45 against any team, Not take any 10 wicket hauls when boland literally just achieved in this series followed by the fact that his wicket tally is half of wasim while his choke tally his double that of wasim.

Don't think anyone has costed India more cups and booted then out of wtc cycles then lord Bumrah. Latham owned him 🤣🤣🥰
Click to expand...
Naah Wasim choked in all world cups other than 92. Was owned by Sachin in 03 and retired lol. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

0 5fers in away wins against top teams. Siraj literally has two.

Biggest choke tally of all time (87,96,99,03) plus match fixing tally too.

Wicket tally half of Anderson's and worse bowler than him too.
 
D
mominsaigol said:
And? Does wasim avg 45 against any opposition?
Click to expand...
31 away from home in nz but ok. So what? Lillee averages 50 in pakiatan or something worse. It's one place lmao

Overall sena average is still sub 23 for bumrah. Wasim bhai is like 28 29

Embarrassing.
 
saimayubera said:
Wasim has won the same number of cups Bumrah has - ONE. Wasim chickening out in 1996 is something no decent bowler has ever replicated.

Wasim played 2 tests in SA. Doesn't change the fact he averaged 39 there.

Kallis literally became good in the 00s, post Wasim's career. Wasim was very poor against mid level batsmen in SA. A 39 average looks very poor/
Click to expand...
Odi cups are comparable to t20 cups according to Indians 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Lmao.

Applying another rubbish filter again lol.

jee sir, Kallis is rubbish 🤡, latham is a goat batter.
 
mominsaigol said:
Nice try except for the fact that Wasim has only played 2 test games in sa. 🤣🤣. He owned sa in pakistan lol and brought the avg down to 29.

Bumrah avg 45 ahainat NZ after playing a billion games againat them( and yes billion is sarcasm, don't make me spell it out)

Secondly sa was 100x stronger back then. Kallis is literally > your abu God in test cricket but ofcourse you'll disagree on it as well.

Secondly wasim has actually won a cup for his country. His 1992 performance is something bumrah hasn't replicated even once in his career for India.

Don't apply these rubbish filters on me.
Click to expand...
SA at that time was the greatest team not to win the WC. Dominated in the 90s and a brain fade stopped them in 1999.
 
Amjid Javed said:
SA bowling attack is a good level, their batting is utter trash.

Why don't you name the one world class bastmen in their line up?

The fact that SA haven't won a test series on their last visits to Pakistan, India, NZ, Aus and England, pretty much been hammered in most of those series shows how weak they are.

If you think overall SA team is strong your deluded. The SA team is carried by its bowlers.
Click to expand...
We are talking records IN SA.

SA at home is still strong. 90s NZ/Eng aren't.

But you are conveniently avoiding it.
 
saimayubera said:
Naah Wasim choked in all world cups other than 92. Was owned by Sachin in 03 and retired lol. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

0 5fers in away wins against top teams. Siraj literally has two.

Biggest choke tally of all time (87,96,99,03) plus match fixing tally too.

Wicket tally half of Anderson's and worse bowler than him too.
Click to expand...
Where's the 10 wicket haul sir? Is it hiding in that 45 avg?
 
mominsaigol said:
Odi cups are comparable to t20 cups according to Indians 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Lmao.

Applying another rubbish filter again lol.

jee sir, Kallis is rubbish 🤡, latham is a goat batter.
Click to expand...
And away test series are comparable to odi cups lmao:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

applying another rubbish filter again lol

jee sir, smith and root are rubbish :ROFLMAO:, ajay jadeja is a goat batter
 
Amjid Javed said:
SA bowling attack is a good level, their batting is utter trash.

Why don't you name the one world class bastmen in their line up?

The fact that SA haven't won a test series on their last visits to Pakistan, India, NZ, Aus and England, pretty much been hammered in most of those series shows how weak they are.

If you think overall SA team is strong your deluded. The SA team is carried by its bowlers.
Click to expand...
They were a good team when they had abd bavuma Elgar amla etc even in 2018.

And now they are in transition. For batting. Their bowling is as powerful as ever.

Bavuma van der dussen when he comes back
Bedingham young him
Rickleton young star in the making

All are quality players.
Hell Markham is good too


Back in 2005 to 2012 ish the pitches were much much flatter. You got a dose recently dint you. They pounded 600 on a flatter pitch.
.
Their pitches post 2016 has been so bowling friendly it skews the batting averages negatively. 35 average in such conditions is like 45.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Why don't you name all the world class and ATG batsmen in SA team right now?

If SA is that strong in batting?
Click to expand...
doesnt matter. we are talking about wthe strength of the SA team.

who were the world class/ATG batsmen in the Eng/NZ team of the 90s? Or for that matter bowlers?

Pak never defeated the Hadlee NZ team. Only won past retirement and then when Williamson etc took over back to losing.
 
Follow on enforced by this "weak" SA team.

Third consecutive whitewash in SA

Ninth consecutive loss

Eighth consecutive whitewash in Southenr Hemisphere

Twentieth consecutive loss
 
saimayubera said:
And away test series are comparable to odi cups lmao:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

applying another rubbish filter again lol

jee sir, smith and root are rubbish :ROFLMAO:, ajay jadeja is a goat batter
Click to expand...
Away test series are 100% comparable to odi cups? Lol. Odi cups are important and way more watched as a whole. Nothing is > the world cup not even the Ashes or BGT.

Says the guy applying rubbish filters.

Smith is a has been now and he scored 2 back to back centuries against India while bunrah was bowling, Root has also owned India countless times 🤣🤣.

I'm sure you believe ajay jadeja > Bradman, Please stop exposing your lack of intelligence.
 
waqar lost series to srilnaka and zimbabwe at home. Forget Bumrah, even venkatesh prasad or pravin kumar doesn't have such a huge failure.
 
Amjid Javed said:
So now your making up assumptions and a load of bull crap.

No one has said Pakistan were the number 1 side in 80s or 90s.

In 80s to early 90s it was WI, from 94 onwards it was Australia. So stop making up scenarios In your head.

Also there have been better bowlers than imran, wasim, waqar. That's the nature if any sports, apart from Bradman, most other cricketers are likely to be surpassed in history at somepoint.

Pakistan fan's are happy with memories that the 3 bowlers mentioned gave them.

Typical Indian poster thinking the whole world revolves around India.

Your bottle job fast bowler captain cudnt be bother to bowl in this 5th test because of a bit of back pain. Then you see malcom Marshall play with a broken thumb.

Heck I even remember Anil kumble bowling with a broken jaw, yet bumrah decided he didn't fancy pushing himself to try and help his team draw a series today.

No wonder he had a back injury. He lost his spine for a fight in this game.
Click to expand...
Bumrah has already won this twice.

He respects injuries not like fool Pakistani fast bowlers who play with injuries and end their careers after 2 years.

There is a reason Bumrah came back after an injury after a year in 2023 and had a GOAT year in 2024 while Pak pacers haven't taken 200 wickets in the last 20 years (and never will).
 
kron said:
They were a good team when they had abd bavuma Elgar amla etc even in 2018.

And now they are in transition. For batting. Their bowling is as powerful as ever.

Bavuma van der dussen when he comes back
Bedingham young him
Rickleton young star in the making

All are quality players.
Hell Markham is good too


Back in 2005 to 2012 ish the pitches were much much flatter. You got a dose recently dint you. They pounded 600 on a flatter pitch.
.
Their pitches post 2016 has been so bowling friendly it skews the batting averages negatively. 35 average in such conditions is like 45.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about 2018. The last decent SA batter was Elgar and even he wasn't world class.

So now you admit that SA batting is in transition? Exactly the point I was making. Not a single world class batsmen in it.

It's funny how Indians get offended why I say that SA, pak, WI, SL and Bangladesh dint have a single World class batsmen between them. Yet Indian take it as a slur against your bowling (stop playing the victim)

Markham and van dursen are not world class.

Actually read what I actually asked.
 
Ryan Rickleton hit 250+ against them. Most 250+ scores conceded in the last few years.

On their way to EIGHTH consecutive whitewash but focusing more on a bowler the likes of whom they have never seen instead of focusing on why their flop fast bowlers crash out after a year lol.

Fact of the matter is most Pakistanis are young and never have seen the Pakistani trio bowl. You should be glad that majority of Pakistanis get to see a brown ATG fast bowler in their lifetime cause the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Mir Hamza ain't it.
 
saimayubera said:
Bumrah has already won this twice.

He respects injuries not like fool Pakistani fast bowlers who play with injuries and end their careers after 2 years.

There is a reason Bumrah came back after an injury after a year in 2023 and had a GOAT year in 2024 while Pak pacers haven't taken 200 wickets in the last 20 years (and never will).
Click to expand...
Bumrah bottled it today, should have done a Kumble and shown some balls and heart.

Heck even malcom Marshall showed grit with a broken thumb in a series which had already been won.

Bumrah knew he cudnt defend low totals, so took the easy way out
 
Amjid Javed said:
I'm not talking about 2018. The last decent SA batter was Elgar and even he wasn't world class.

So now you admit that SA batting is in transition? Exactly the point I was making. Not a single world class batsmen in it.

It's funny how Indians get offended why I say that SA, pak, WI, SL and Bangladesh dint have a single World class batsmen between them. Yet Indian take it as a slur against your bowling (stop playing the victim)

Markham and van dursen are not world class.

Actually read what I actually asked.
Click to expand...
Elgar, Bavuma etc are solid. Played in the 2024 series and better than 90s Eng/NZ hacks that Wasim got his wickets against.

Plus Rabada and co way better than the medium pacers they had.
 
saimayubera said:
Ryan Rickleton hit 250+ against them. Most 250+ scores conceded in the last few years.

On their way to EIGHTH consecutive whitewash but focusing more on a bowler the likes of whom they have never seen instead of focusing on why their flop fast bowlers crash out after a year lol.

Fact of the matter is most Pakistanis are young and never have seen the Pakistani trio bowl. You should be glad that majority of Pakistanis get to see a brown ATG fast bowler in their lifetime cause the likes of Shaheen, Naseem, Mir Hamza ain't it.
Click to expand...
Why don't you name all the top sides they have beaten recently at home?

Talking rubbish as usual

I've been watching cricket since 1987, so you nonsense on people not seeing imran, wasim, waqar bowl is again made up bakwas.
 
anikrc1 said:
waqar lost series to srilnaka and zimbabwe at home. Forget Bumrah, even venkatesh prasad or pravin kumar doesn't have such a huge failure.
Click to expand...
Same SL battered your team black and blue during those years.

As for Zimbabwe, one test was not played, the second was drawn with Waqar injured and not bowling for one innings. In the other 3 innings he took 8 wickets. This is a Waqar in the latter part of his career riddled with injuries, and just some months later he would miss most of the 1999 WC.

Compared to Bumrah who got battered to a clean sweep at home in every game he played.
 
Just like the Ganguly/Dhoni team transitioned into the Kohli/Rohit team, four years later India will be a dominant test side again.

Pakistan will still keep getting whitewashed abroad and be hyping up their new one season wonders as Shaheen, Naseem, Saim join the junkpile lol. Like clockwork hahaha.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
saimayubera said:
Elgar, Bavuma etc are solid. Played in the 2024 series and better than 90s Eng/NZ hacks that Wasim got his wickets against.

Plus Rabada and co way better than the medium pacers they had.
Click to expand...
🤣🤣 again I said which world class and ATG SA batsmen and you name bavuma and Elgar

🤣🤣 clueless
 
saimayubera said:
These are way better than Eng/Nz rubbish and that's what the comparison is.
Click to expand...
Again name the world class and ATG batsmen, you can't? So your avoiding the question.

England had Gooch in the early 90s, an England legend. Stewart, Thorpe were good players as well.

But let me guess your going to compare batting stats across eras now
 
saimayubera said:
India def SL in 2011 and won and cleared the slate.

When is Pak defeating Ind in a WC? 2011 was the best chance with the PMs watching but guess what happened lol.
Click to expand...
Burned down a stadium and years later patted themselves on the back 🤣🤣
 
saimayubera said:
India def SL in 2011 and won and cleared the slate.

When is Pak defeating Ind in a WC? 2011 was the best chance with the PMs watching but guess what happened lol.
Click to expand...
Pakistan humbled India in CT 2017 final

The one where fakhar was bumrahs daddy
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Very very bad take by him. His obsession in thread to thread is to belittle Pakistan as much as he can for some reason...but this takes the biscuit.
Click to expand...
Bavuma being world class is an even worse take then Kohli > YK in tests.

A 37 avg batter being world class lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bavuma being world class is an even worse take then Kohli > YK in tests.

A 37 avg batter being world class lol.
Click to expand...
There is a Western place for football I go to, Indians desperately arguing there about Bumrah being ATG better than Waqar Wasim Marshall. And the English fans aren't even prepared to admit he's better than Steyn.
 
Pakpak said:
Same SL battered your team black and blue during those years.

As for Zimbabwe, one test was not played, the second was drawn with Waqar injured and not bowling for one innings. In the other 3 innings he took 8 wickets. This is a Waqar in the latter part of his career riddled with injuries, and just some months later he would miss most of the 1999 WC.

Compared to Bumrah who got battered to a clean sweep at home in every game he played.
Click to expand...
Sl has never won a single test in India, forget series.
 
saimayubera said:
Wasim Akram uses bottle caps and home umpires.
Click to expand...
Your post tells me you never watched Akram play...
Maybe some YouTube footage of various spells...

Wasim could swing and seam the new ball around at 90mph plus....
The man was magician with both the new and old ball...
 
mominsaigol said:
Bavuma being world class is an even worse take then Kohli > YK in tests.

A 37 avg batter being world class lol.
Click to expand...
Yeah basically According to Indians, this is a strong SA side and bauvamu, Markham, van dursen are all elite ATG batsmen.

I've seen SA since 1992, as a collection of batsmen. This is their worst.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Yeah basically According to Indians, this is a strong SA side and bauvamu, Markham, van dursen are all elite ATG batsmen.

I've seen SA since 1992, as a collection of batsmen. This is their worst.
Click to expand...
These boys don't even believe their own arguments. Their saying such and such to prove why bumrah is no 1.
 
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