Muslim couple denied Swiss citizenship over handshake refusal

[hadi123]

GENEVA: The Swiss city of Lausanne has blocked a Muslim couple’s bid to become Swiss nationals over their refusal to shake hands with members of the opposite sex.

The municipality said it refused to grant the couple’s citizenship application over their lack of respect for gender equality, Lausanne mayor Gregoire Junod said.

He said a municipal commission had questioned the couple several months ago to determine if they met the criteria for citizenship, but had determined in the ruling made public on Friday that they missed the mark on integration.

He refused to divulge the couple’s nationalities or other identifying details, but said they “did not shake hands with people of the opposite sex”.

They also “showed great difficulty in answering questions asked by people of the opposite sex,” he said.

Some devout Muslims argue that Islam does not permit physical contact with a person of the opposite sex, with the exception of certain immediate family members.

Junod pointed out that freedom of belief and religion is enshrined in the laws of the Canton of Vaud, which encompasses Lausanne.

But “religious practice does not fall outside the law,” he stressed.

His vice-mayor, Pierre-Antoine Hildbrand, who was on the three-member commission that questioned the couple said he was “very satisfied with the decision” to deny the couple’s application.

“The constitution and equality between men and women prevails over bigotry,” he said.

The couple has 30 days to appeal the decision, Junod said.

This is not the first time refused handshakes have stirred tensions in Switzerland.

In 2016, there was national uproar over revelations that a middle school in the north of the country had allowed two Syrian brothers not to shake their teachers’ hands after they complained that doing so was counter to their religious beliefs if the teacher was a woman.

This ran counter to a deeply entrenched Swiss tradition of students shaking their teacher’s hands as a sign of respect, and amid the outcry regional authorities quickly overruled the school’s decision.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1783265/3-muslim-couple-denied-swiss-citizenship-handshake-refusal/

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Stupidness all round really - an overreaction by the Swiss imo and as for the couple in question, why move to a non Muslim country if you want to behave like this? When in Rome and all that. It’s like moving to Japan and then refusing to bow, or moving to a Muslim country and refusing to respond to an Assalamualaikum appropriately.

 

[GBK_Fan]

It’s good on the swedes. The couple is clearly incompatible with their society.

 

[troodon]

They can wear gloves so that there is no skin to skin contact. A big deal for nothing.

 

[90MPH]

Harsh but fair.

If you can’t do a stupid handshake then you are going to face much further problems down the line.

They are not just going to alienate those that are welcoming them but themselves. And obviously they are going to teach these values to their kids which means more segregation in an open society.

 

[hadi123]

Harsh but fair.

If you can’t do a stupid handshake then you are going to face much further problems down the line.

They are not just going to alienate those that are welcoming them but themselves. And obviously they are going to teach these values to their kids which means more segregation in an open society.

You have a point but if they were going to live in Switzerland just living their own lives they should be allowed there and can have their own opinions (which for the record I disagree with). I definitely disagree with the refusal to shake hands, I think that's very petty and I believe in gender equality etc but I think that as a reason alone to deny someone citizenship is harsh.


Although on the other side, if they believe in stuff like that, they may be more likely to have some more old school views, such as homophobia etc and if that's the case, then it would be fair for them to not be allowed in the country as it would only create problems down the line because as [MENTION=7898]Gabbar Singh[/MENTION] said, there's no point moving elsewhere if you aren't going to behave in line with them.

But if the handshake is the only thing they're going on, that is pretty harsh.

 

[srh]

why the refusal to shake hands is considered being against gender equality?

 

[ManFan]

Just shake the damn hand.

It’s not a sign of sexual contact but respect.

 

[PakLFC]

Depends on what the Swiss law says. If refusing to shake hands means citizenship can be refused than that is to bad for the Muslim couple. Living in non Muslim countries also means Muslim's have to compromise on many things as well. These "devout Muslim's" can't have everything their own way, they often make a fuss over the slightest issue. Shaking the hand of someone of the opposite gender doesn't mean you have the hots for them!

 

[Suleiman]

Good, don't need degenerates. What kind of extremism is this lol.

This weird zid certain Muslims have to just not want to acclimatize over something so minor and inconsequential to the faith is kinda embarrassing.

 

[90MPH]

You have a point but if they were going to live in Switzerland just living their own lives they should be allowed there and can have their own opinions (which for the record I disagree with). I definitely disagree with the refusal to shake hands, I think that's very petty and I believe in gender equality etc but I think that as a reason alone to deny someone citizenship is harsh.


Although on the other side, if they believe in stuff like that, they may be more likely to have some more old school views, such as homophobia etc and if that's the case, then it would be fair for them to not be allowed in the country as it would only create problems down the line because as [MENTION=7898]Gabbar Singh[/MENTION] said, there's no point moving elsewhere if you aren't going to behave in line with them.

But if the handshake is the only thing they're going on, that is pretty harsh.

I agree it is harsh but I think was more of sending a message then specifically targeting these couples.

Many European countries are now banning the burka because no one hardly wore the burka when the immigrants first came to Europe 20/30 years ago.

However in some neighbourhoods it’s become normal and it’s only segregating these immigrants further from rest of the population.
Not just that it also gives these white nationalist racist groups ammunition and votes.

The message should be that you can bring some of your culture but also respect the culture of the country you are residing in.

 

[Bewal Express]

In Sweden a muslim women won compensation after refusing to shake hands with a man who then refused to interview her for the job. This will cause huge problems for Muslims in the future as in the future job applications will be binned to avoid any chance of lawsuits. She may have won compensation but future muslim job seekers have lost out.

 

[hadi123]

I agree it is harsh but I think was more of sending a message then specifically targeting these couples.

Many European countries are now banning the burka because no one hardly wore the burka when the immigrants first came to Europe 20/30 years ago.

However in some neighbourhoods it’s become normal and it’s only segregating these immigrants further from rest of the population.
Not just that it also gives these white nationalist racist groups ammunition and votes.

The message should be that you can bring some of your culture but also respect the culture of the country you are residing in.

True. I do think people need to accept the culture of the country one wishes to reside in. I live in England and I remember once, a few years ago, the whole went to a restaurant, obviously had halal meat but they had a bar there and my extremely religious grandad went into a big strop because of that.

I understand that alcohol is forbidden in Islam, but you don't have to drink it, so why he got into such a strop is unjustifiable, we live in England, better get used to that. Since then, when looking at potential restaurants, we have to make sure there is no bar there, just to please him.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Stupidness all round really - an overreaction by the Swiss imo and as for the couple in question, why move to a non Muslim country if you want to behave like this? When in Rome and all that. It’s like moving to Japan and then refusing to bow, or moving to a Muslim country and refusing to respond to an Assalamualaikum appropriately.

You don't need to. That's only for Muslims. You can greet however you wish.

 

[Justcrazy]

How does refusing to shake hands make you incapable of getting citizenship

 

[Justcrazy]

True. I do think people need to accept the culture of the country one wishes to reside in. I live in England and I remember once, a few years ago, the whole went to a restaurant, obviously had halal meat but they had a bar there and my extremely religious grandad went into a big strop because of that.

I understand that alcohol is forbidden in Islam, but you don't have to drink it, so why he got into such a strop is unjustifiable, we live in England, better get used to that. Since then, when looking at potential restaurants, we have to make sure there is no bar there, just to please him.

You went to Restaurant with Bar , and had your food , you did not object to others.

That is what that couple did , they did not shake hands , they are not saying that we will not allow any other person to shake hands.

 

[Justcrazy]

Good, don't need degenerates. What kind of extremism is this lol.

This weird zid certain Muslims have to just not want to acclimatize over something so minor and inconsequential to the faith is kinda embarrassing.

In Islam its not a minor thing.

 

[hadi123]

You went to Restaurant with Bar , and had your food , you did not object to others.

That is what that couple did , they did not shake hands , they are not saying that we will not allow any other person to shake hands.

Yes you are right but the point I'm trying to make is you need to accept cultures of the country you plan to reside in. I was just giving an example

 

[B@$!T]

Why do they feel so entitled, Great decision I sat, If you cant respect other peoples views and want yours respected this is exactly what you deserve.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Glad to see this forum has evolved into people accepting that handshake is simply a greeting.

Waiting for a devout Muslim to offer his fatwa soon.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes you are right but the point I'm trying to make is you need to accept cultures of the country you plan to reside in. I was just giving an example

Respecting the culture does not mean you have to follow them. New people bring in there own cultures , others also should respect that.

Shaking Hands in not something to show patriotism. If someone is not comfortable with that people should respect that. The European Countries are taking Islam too far.

 

[Justcrazy]

Glad to see this forum has evolved into people accepting that handshake is simply a greeting.

Waiting for a devout Muslim to offer his fatwa soon.

Scholars fatwa does not matter much , it is simply an expert opinion.
But as far as handshake is concerned the fatwa has already being issued by the prophet himself.

Muslims cannot shake hands with non mehram people. Its unanimous view.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Respecting the culture does not mean you have to follow them. New people bring in there own cultures , others also should respect that.

Shaking Hands in not something to show patriotism. If someone is not comfortable with that people should respect that. The European Countries are taking Islam too far.

If you don't want to embrace their culture, stay in your own country.

See I have an issue with people forcibly wanting citizenship of advanced countries without accepting their requirements no matter how ridiculous they may be.

If you enter my house, you take off shoes. You cannot enter my house saying its my custom to wear shoes inside the house.

 

[James]

It seems to be a Swiss custom to shake hands with members of the opposite sex. Equally it seems to be an Islamic custom to not shake hands with the opposite sex.

The differentiator is the fact that these prospective migrating individuals wish to gain citizenship of Switzerland. Every country has the automatic right to set its own immigration rules and these two migrants “want something” from Switzerland in the sense that they want Swiss passports.

Life is about give & take. If you want something that you do not have, you often have to give something material, or give a part of yourself, in return.

If these people do not want to shake hands with the opposite sex, that’s genuinely okay and their position should be fully respected. However as long as they stick to this, they should not expect to gain citizenship of another country that disagrees with their position.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It seems to be a Swiss custom to shake hands with members of the opposite sex. Equally it seems to be an Islamic custom to not shake hands with the opposite sex.

The differentiator is the fact that these prospective migrating individuals wish to gain citizenship of Switzerland. Every country has the automatic right to set its own immigration rules and these two migrants “want something” from Switzerland in the sense that they want Swiss passports.

Life is about give & take. If you want something that you do not have, you often have to give something material, or give a part of yourself, in return.

If these people do not want to shake hands with the opposite sex, that’s genuinely okay and their position should be fully respected. However as long as they stick to this, they should not expect to gain citizenship of another country that disagrees with their position.

Its an extremist position position by both the couple & the Swiss. As a country you cannot claim to be a liberal civilised modern society but then demand people must Shake hands .

 

[Varun]

If all else fails, there is another country beginning with S they can always go to.

Saudi Arabia.

 

[Abdul]

Good.

It's very important to put backwards morons like them back in their places.

 

[barah_admi]

Depends on what the Swiss law says. If refusing to shake hands means citizenship can be refused than that is to bad for the Muslim couple. Living in non Muslim countries also means Muslim's have to compromise on many things as well. These "devout Muslim's" can't have everything their own way, they often make a fuss over the slightest issue. Shaking the hand of someone of the opposite gender doesn't mean you have the hots for them!

No but these western nations claim to be "liberal" and the laws in these countries state that people can live according to their religions, it is known as religious freedom. A refusal to shake hands, on religious grounds, in not grounds to disallow citizenship and is nothing but rampant Islamophobia. Imagine a Hesedic Jewish couple being treated in the same way? I guarantee you would be too scared to even post what you just did.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its an extremist position position by both the couple & the Swiss. As a country you cannot claim to be a liberal civilised modern society but then demand people must Shake hands .

The swiss can claim to be anything. There are no certificating authorities here giving away cerificates on those claims.

They have their rules. If anyone wants to stay in their country they need to follow them.

Pretty sure islamic countries also have their rules which need to be followed if you are staying there. Some of these rules may be medieval or archaic.

But Its how sovereign countries run.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No but these western nations claim to be "liberal" and the laws in these countries state that people can live according to their religions, it is known as religious freedom. A refusal to shake hands, on religious grounds, in not grounds to disallow citizenship and is nothing but rampant Islamophobia. Imagine a Hesedic Jewish couple being treated in the same way? I guarantee you would be too scared to even post what you just did.

It is definitely driven by Islamophobia, but I guess these countries have a right to pass Islamophobic laws. Muslims who follow such strict interpretations of Islam should reconsider applying to countries which are enforcing these laws. I won't blame the couple here, as they were probably expecting more freedom to practice their form of Islam, but it is important that the new regulations being passed in some European countries are better absorbed by those wishing to come here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The swiss can claim to be anything. There are no certificating authorities here giving away cerificates on those claims.

They have their rules. If anyone wants to stay in their country they need to follow them.

Pretty sure islamic countries also have their rules which need to be followed if you are staying there. Some of these rules may be medieval or archaic.

But Its how sovereign countries run.

The confusion is because those rules were not clear, obviously shaking hands with opposite sex was not considered a stipulation for a Swiss visa previously, these are morphing according to current sentiments which some may describe as Islamophobic. As the new stipulations become known more widely, you would imagine either those people will go somewhere else, or comply.

 

[Justcrazy]

If you don't want to embrace their culture, stay in your own country.

See I have an issue with people forcibly wanting citizenship of advanced countries without accepting their requirements no matter how ridiculous they may be.

If you enter my house, you take off shoes. You cannot enter my house saying its my custom to wear shoes inside the house.

Shaking hands is requirement of a country ? Can you show me the official Government document where it says so ? We all will be obliged .

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Shaking hands is requirement of a country ? Can you show me the official Government document where it says so ? We all will be obliged .

It was the requirement of the Swiss and hence they denied.

Citizenship is a privilege and not a right of the couple.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Shaking hands is requirement of a country ? Can you show me the official Government document where it says so ? We all will be obliged .

Its for the Swiss to decide whats their requirement.Isnt it?

 

[PakLFC]

No but these western nations claim to be "liberal" and the laws in these countries state that people can live according to their religions, it is known as religious freedom. A refusal to shake hands, on religious grounds, in not grounds to disallow citizenship and is nothing but rampant Islamophobia. Imagine a Hesedic Jewish couple being treated in the same way? I guarantee you would be too scared to even post what you just did.

That is the thing and what I am saying that the law needs to be equal for people of all faiths. If a Muslim is rejected for covering her head then so must be a Catholic Nun. Every liberal country has a constitution that may differ in many ways as well like Saudi law is different to Pakistan law yet both claim to be Islamic. If they find it so burdensome living in a non-Muslim land then why live there at all?

 

[KingKhanWC]

The swiss can claim to be anything. There are no certificating authorities here giving away cerificates on those claims.

They have their rules. If anyone wants to stay in their country they need to follow them.

Pretty sure islamic countries also have their rules which need to be followed if you are staying there. Some of these rules may be medieval or archaic.

But Its how sovereign countries run.

They can refuse who they like .

But dont claim to be liberal because the meaning of liberalism is accepting those who are different.

 

[cricketjoshila]

They can refuse who they like .

But dont claim to be liberal because the meaning of liberalism is accepting those who are different.

Who is going to stop them from claiming?

Perhaps they want to keep their society liberal by not letting in conservative religious people in who are not liberal and hence will disturb the liberal setting of the Swiss.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Who is going to stop them from claiming?

Perhaps they want to keep their society liberal by not letting in conservative religious people in who are not liberal and hence will disturb the liberal setting of the Swiss.

I dont think anybody cares to stop them.

Swiss are not like UK , they arent liberal so there is nothing to disturb. They banned minarets. Just a paranoid deluded Nation.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I dont think anybody cares to stop them.

Swiss are not like UK , they arent liberal so there is nothing to disturb. They banned minarets. Just a paranoid deluded Nation.

UK suffered terrorist attacks by letting in people who were incompatible with a liberal society. Swiss dont want to do that.

A liberal society stays liberal by making sure its constituents are liberal. Once conservatives enter that society its no more liberal.

 

[KingKhanWC]

UK suffered terrorist attacks by letting in people who were incompatible with a liberal society. Swiss dont want to do that.

A liberal society stays liberal by making sure its constituents are liberal. Once conservatives enter that society its no more liberal.

As usual you dont have a scooby doo. UK intelligence said terrorism was due to UKs foriegn policy not any the rubbish you just wrote .

You get a kick when nations are anti muslim .

 

[cricketjoshila]

As usual you dont have a scooby doo. UK intelligence said terrorism was due to UKs foriegn policy not any the rubbish you just wrote .

You get a kick when nations are anti muslim .

So UK citizens attacked their own country men and killed them because of what UK was doing in a foreign land?

Nations will be always anti to anything thats not in their interests. Thats what paramount to them, national interests.

 

[James]

Switzerland seems to be a rather different society to the rest of Europe. Very conservative, anti-teamwork and particularly untrusting of “outsiders”. Glad I don’t live there.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So UK citizens attacked their own country men and killed them because of what UK was doing in a foreign land?

Nations will be always anti to anything thats not in their interests. Thats what paramount to them, national interests.

Yes unless you know better than MI5. In fact they warned the Blair government invading Iraq would result in terrorism . Please stick to discussing the BJP.

 

[Justcrazy]

It was the requirement of the Swiss and hence they denied.

Citizenship is a privilege and not a right of the couple.

Are you for real ? You think shaking hands with opposite gender is official requirement for Citizenship

 

[Justcrazy]

Switzerland seems to be a rather different society to the rest of Europe. Very conservative, anti-teamwork and particularly untrusting of “outsiders”. Glad I don’t live there.

They also are not part of EU.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes unless you know better than MI5. In fact they warned the Blair government invading Iraq would result in terrorism . Please stick to discussing the BJP.

So MI5 said that if UK will invade Iraq, some UK citizens will become terrorists? No wonder the swiss are very strict in giving citizenship. They dont want anyone in tyeir society who will become terrorist.

If only UK was this careful it wouldnot be facing terror attacks by its own citizens just because they went to war somewhere. Clearly the loyalties of these people didnot lie with the UK but with some far off land. No wonder some liberal societies are being strict in letting in foreigners who they dont see as liberals.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

What do I get the feeling that behind all the talk of all this cultural assimilation there is an element white nationalism and cultural superiority complex. I mean if you are truly liberal then you shouldn’t have the problem with people not shaking your hands as a matter of choice.

 

[Mamoon]

Well done Swiss government. The couple got what they deserved.

 

[James]

So MI5 said that if UK will invade Iraq, some UK citizens will become terrorists? No wonder the swiss are very strict in giving citizenship. They dont want anyone in tyeir society who will become terrorist.

If only UK was this careful it wouldnot be facing terror attacks by its own citizens just because they went to war somewhere. Clearly the loyalties of these people didnot lie with the UK but with some far off land. No wonder some liberal societies are being strict in letting in foreigners who they dont see as liberals.

Very controversial post!! Surprised it hasn’t caused more of a stir to be honest.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very controversial post!! Surprised it hasn’t caused more of a stir to be honest.

It would probably cause more of a stir if it came from a native Brit rather than the keyboard of a supporter of a hardline Hindutva govt in India.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It would probably cause more of a stir if it came from a native Brit rather than the keyboard of a supporter of a hardline Hindutva govt in India.

Obviously. Who gives a ...

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Here is the actual quote by the former MI5 boss that King Khan is referring to....

Our involvement in Iraq radicalised, for want of a better word, a whole generation of young people – a few among a generation – who saw our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as being an attack on Islam.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...airs-defence-of-the-iraq-war-2031289.html?amp