Muslim parents permanently banned from protesting LGBT lessons outside school

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think the protest was fine as long as it was legal. Now it has been banned, the parents will just have to go along with it, Muslim or non Muslim. Personally I would not be happy if boys were allowed into girls changing rooms on account of being transgender if my daughter was there, but then I would have to think of how I could avoid that situation. This is the UK and you have to go with the trend no matter how silly it might seem. Not sure protests are an effective way of dealing with it.

 

[Rana]

This is the single most incoherent paragraph in this thread and that's saying something.

Are you too thick to understand basic English?

 

[topspin]

My point is that Muslim residents of the UK aren't as well integrated as their counterparts around the world - especially in America. The world moves several steps toward gay rights with every passing year, while these guys prefer to cause a monthly ruckus under the guise of democratic freedom.

Since a court has banned the protests, even that excuse doesn't hold up in this context.

I agree with this. In the US, Muslims are much better integrated than over here.

It is pertinent to note, that in the UK, it is mostly down to one Pakistani community who have given British based Muslims a bad name.

Whilst I agree with your first sentence, lets be clear about this, it isn't a Muslim problem. At most it is a Pakistani problem due to a certain community who have tarnished our reputation here since the 90s.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree with this. In the US, Muslims are much better integrated than over here.

It is pertinent to note, that in the UK, it is mostly down to one Pakistani community who have given British based Muslims a bad name.

Whilst I agree with your first sentence, lets be clear about this, it isn't a Muslim problem. At most it is a Pakistani problem due to a certain community who have tarnished our reputation here since the 90s.

I disagree, I think it is by no means a problem only of that community, assuming you are talking about Mirpuris. I'm not a Mirpuri but I wouldn't be happy about LBGT lessons or shared changing rooms for boys and girls. Not sure why you feel the need to explain yourself to someone sitting in India giving out lectures about gay rights anyway.

 

[world cup captain]

Are you sure? A simple search displayed tons of articles effortlessly. Perhaps you don't want to hear as you would like.

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior


This one should suffice although if you google it with effort even though this requires effortless, you will find tons of articles with tons of information. For now click on the link since you are too lazy.

The funny thing here is you didn't actually read the study. The study claims there is no single gene that causes homosexuality, but that doesn't rule out genetic causes. Here, "The analysis, which examined the genomes of nearly half a million men and women, found that although genetics are certainly involved in who people choose to have sex with, there are no specific genetic predictors." We simply have not advanced enough to fully examine the issue.

when i was in school teachers could pull out kids from sex ed on religious grounds, does this not happen now?

afaik as the story goes, homosexuality is part of british society, and if teachers aren't teaching it kids will just figure it out off the internet.

we were taught evolution in school but many muslims i know dont believe in it still. a school lesson cant undo religous beliefs.

i taught in a shcool where some muslim kids as young as 5 and 6 told me their parents told them not to interact with non-muslim kids.

yes parents have the ultimate right to teach their kids what they want. but they don't have the right to censor them from other points of view, some parents are dumb as door knobs.

I believe you can still do that but I'm not a fan of it. If you're pulling your child out of a class that may challenge your religion, then you're forcing your religion on your child. Religion is no longer a choice on your child which is contridictary to most religions.

In Western countries, you say 1 word against LGBT and you will be ostracized..What is there to be so proud about LGBT?

The crowd for gay parades in Israel is like Kumbh Mela..pathetic

It's not specific to the LGBT community. In American, if you say anything about a group, be Blacks, Jews, Asians, Muslims or Indians, you will face backlash. It's just human decency. That's not to say there is never any discrimination.

 

[Relic]

Right decision. Deport these people to the country where they belong.

So they can't even decide what their children are taught??

So much for freedom of speech

 

[Technics 1210]

I disagree, I think it is by no means a problem only of that community, assuming you are talking about Mirpuris. I'm not a Mirpuri but I wouldn't be happy about LBGT lessons or shared changing rooms for boys and girls. Not sure why you feel the need to explain yourself to someone sitting in India giving out lectures about gay rights anyway.

I think he is a false flagger, because the problem with Pakistanis, more importantly the nation's perception, did not begin until after 9/11. This is a cold hard fact for anyone who has lived in the UK long enough to know the ground realities.

 

[Captain caveman]

My point is that Muslim residents of the UK aren't as well integrated as their counterparts around the world - especially in America. The world moves several steps toward gay rights with every passing year, while these guys prefer to cause a monthly ruckus under the guise of democratic freedom.

Since a court has banned the protests, even that excuse doesn't hold up in this context.

Theres over 3 million muslims in the uk, out of which approx. 800, 000 are kashmiris and approx. 300, 000 are pakistanis.
The protest were by less than 100 people, mainly mirpuris(kashmiris) and a few somalis. 100.people in a population of over 3 million and you come up with this -

"My point is that Muslim residents of the UK aren't as well integrated as their counterparts around the world - especially in America. "

You sir are a troll of the highest magnitude!

 

[ElRaja]

I believe you can still do that but I'm not a fan of it. If you're pulling your child out of a class that may challenge your religion, then you're forcing your religion on your child. Religion is no longer a choice on your child which is contridictary to most religions.

i wasnt condoning it, i just was suggesting there are likely more logical way around it then protesting

 

[barah_admi]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

 

[HitWicket]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech doesn't cover you in making threats against people at their place of work, making unfounded accusations of a paeophilic agenda or using vulgar language (especially in front of children).

 

[kingusama92]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

You lose that privilege by creating a hostile environment outside the school. Calling someone a pedophile and other similar terms in front of children is incredibly inappropriate.

 

[mgtow]

You lose that privilege by creating a hostile environment outside the school. Calling someone a pedophile and other similar terms in front of children is incredibly inappropriate.

It is not since they are actually trying to legislate the practice of pedophilia officially. It is disturbing as it is and they must be called out using the platform that is meant to express the opinions or outrages for that matter. People are only concerned about freedom of speech and expression when it comes to anti-Islam. Those who back this practice have been exposed for the hypocrisy where freedom of speech and expression is banned in Indian Occupied Kashmir. It is time to call spade a spade.

 

[Local.Dada]

It is not since they are actually trying to legislate the practice of pedophilia officially. It is disturbing as it is and they must be called out using the platform that is meant to express the opinions or outrages for that matter. People are only concerned about freedom of speech and expression when it comes to anti-Islam. Those who back this practice have been exposed for the hypocrisy where freedom of speech and expression is banned in Indian Occupied Kashmir. It is time to call spade a spade.

Church and State in theory are kept away in western countries and that is precisely one of the reasons why people from the SC migrate and never come back among other things of course.

Education system is supposed to be inclusive. If people are nitpicking what is taught in schools as islamic and anti-islamic,they are free to go to their religious schools. I heard there are plenty of those in UK

 

[Relic]

You lose that privilege by creating a hostile environment outside the school. Calling someone a pedophile and other similar terms in front of children is incredibly inappropriate.

It's not a privilege. It's a right.
Well, that's what these western countries say. Looks like they don't practise what they preach

 

[kingusama92]

It's not a privilege. It's a right.
Well, that's what these western countries say. Looks like they don't practise what they preach

Yes, it's a right.

No one is stopping these parents from protesting. They're being stopped from protesting outside the school in front of young children. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

 

[mgtow]

Church and State in theory are kept away in western countries and that is precisely one of the reasons why people from the SC migrate and never come back among other things of course.

Education system is supposed to be inclusive. If people are nitpicking what is taught in schools as islamic and anti-islamic,they are free to go to their religious schools. I heard there are plenty of those in UK

Because church influence is kept at bay doesn't change the fact that liberals are enforcing their doctrines against the throat of parents which undermines the integrity of the freedom of speech/expression.

If those courses are optional, then that would be within the line of freedom of speech and expression, but forcing down the throat of the parents and innocent kids who don't need this kind of absurdity to take away their innocents. Also much in line with Indian parents and Indian generations given the popularity of conservative in India that is strongly anti-Liberal.

Even in Church and Islamic school, they cannot force you down the throat much liberals are forcing those parents down the throat which is ironic since they play bragging rights for freedom of speech/expression and doing the opposite - taking hypocrisy to the new levels.

As long as the society wasn't forcing population down the throat, it was fine. Now liberals are in powers, and first thing they do is to force the ideology down the throat which goes against their principals in regards to freedom of speech/expression to begin with. Fast becoming hypocrite in the new worlds where majority of them are conservatives; be it Muslims, Christians, Jewish, Indians,....etc.

 

[mgtow]

The funny thing here is you didn't actually read the study. The study claims there is no single gene that causes homosexuality, but that doesn't rule out genetic causes. Here, "The analysis, which examined the genomes of nearly half a million men and women, found that although genetics are certainly involved in who people choose to have sex with, there are no specific genetic predictors." We simply have not advanced enough to fully examine the issue.

I think you mean to say the initial study that suggests no inclination as to validity of homosexual genes and no further study indicates any contradiction or theory to further validates the possible indicator of homosexual genes.

For now as the study indicated that there is no sign of gene that can validate the existence of homosexual in terms of medically speak.

Whereas homosexuality is rather seen as attraction - much like one gender to the opposite gender or opposite gender. Again, no scientific sign to validate the existence of homosexual genes.

Since they don't exist and it is no shocker why since men and women are scientifically designed and engineered to multiply the populations which has been in touch with the conservative theory with the concrete evidence to back with doesn't make it backward anymore.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Church and State in theory are kept away in western countries and that is precisely one of the reasons why people from the SC migrate and never come back among other things of course.

Education system is supposed to be inclusive. If people are nitpicking what is taught in schools as islamic and anti-islamic,they are free to go to their religious schools. I heard there are plenty of those in UK

In the UK you are allowed to protest on issues which are affecting your children, white parents have done it for eons. These protests have to be kept peaceful and non-disruptive, that is the issue here. Perhaps some parents have gone overboard and that is why the judgement has been made to ban the protests.

This isn't necessarily just an Islamic issue by the way, so keep your disrespectful comments to yourself, or go vent on a Hindutva forum where they might be more appropriate.

 

[miandadrules]

Can someone post the exact point in the syllabus, curriculum and resources used that they think are inappropriate for the respective age groups.

Also, I hear “freedom of speech” branded about as a defence. Freedom of speech comes with caveats, such as you can’t shout fire in a crowded area.

It’s become it has become abundantly clear that the posters who object such teaching have thoroughly researched the topic and aren’t just channelling bigotry which is a decades of psychological abuse.

That said, if you could point out exact resources you find objectionable and whether caveats aren’t being contravened.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

People are letting it die, they'll regret it when the goverment starts using this against them to shutdown any dissent on the excuse of "verbal threats".

 

[Vegitto1]

A 7 yr old is brainwashed with religion though, reason being early on they pick up things and biases.
So why not ,not teach about religion as well, clearly it doesn’t seem to be straightforward and he might develop bias and dislike?

[MENTION=151618]Relic[/MENTION] I’m sure you can agree religion is complicated as well? Unless that is simple?

Don't know what you have against religions mate. Religion teaches morality, promotes peace, encourages humanity towards others and guides us how to life a good law abiding life (regardless of which religion you follow).

Homosexuality is not natural. A man and woman get together and reproduce and have a child and that is the natural cycle.

Now I completely understand that one does not choose to be homosexual, and therefore we should not discriminate against them, just like people born with birth defects, they didn't have a choice they are 'abnormal' but not by choice.

While I completely agree that society should not discriminate against homosexuals, I also feel that it should not be encouraged by making it out to be something that you can 'Choose to be'.

Schools should teach students not to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality and at the same time explain how these people didn't have a choice, homosexuality is not and should not be a choice.

 

[Local.Dada]

In the UK you are allowed to protest on issues which are affecting your children, white parents have done it for eons. These protests have to be kept peaceful and non-disruptive, that is the issue here. Perhaps some parents have gone overboard and that is why the judgement has been made to ban the protests.

This isn't necessarily just an Islamic issue by the way, so keep your disrespectful comments to yourself, or go vent on a Hindutva forum where they might be more appropriate.

I never said it was and I am not being disrespectful to any religion. The thread title says "Muslim Parents" and the argument was the curriculum is against the tenets of his religion which happens to be islam.

I am not branding an entire religion, I am criticizing the parent/parents for bringing religion and play the usual minority victim card as a means to their protest. Hope you see the difference.

What is a Hindutva forum?

Now if the curriculum was actually being disrespectful to the religion,I would be the first person to commend the guy for having the guts to stand up for bullying, However making every topic a religious thing that is a trait in some people especially in the UK is what I don't agree with.

What is in the curriculum is just hearsay at the point. I have no problem my kid learning about being inclusive to all regardless of their age,gender,sexual orientation,race,ethnicity,religious beliefs etc etc etc. Now if there was actually things like touching yourself etc like some other poster said, I am not dumb that is clearly inappropriate and don't think the judges or the guys publishing the curriculum are that depraved to let something like that pass.

 

[HitWicket]

People are letting it die, they'll regret it when the goverment starts using this against them to shutdown any dissent on the excuse of "verbal threats".

You seriously think freedom of speech should extend to being allowed to make unfounded allegations of paedophilia, threaten people at their place of work and using vulgar language infront of children?

 

[RajBan]

That shows how freedom of speech is being respected. When it comes to anti-Islam, it is freedom. Otherwise, ban when Muslims do it.

The freedom of speech do not allow you to facilitate hate speech against anybody's rights. You don't like their way of life, absolutely fine. But you can't force your way on them. How will you feel if they do the same to you?

 

[Energy]

Small sample size, but the British head-teacher who works with my wife at a primary school mentioned that schools are no more the same they used to be before. And is disgusted by the increasing LBGT legislations in schools. Hence she shifted out.

Pushing a child to fiddle with themselves to learn about their own sex, and encourage them to openly express their views on it/change if it they don't like it is not even ethical, let alone bringing religion into it.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

You seriously think freedom of speech should extend to being allowed to make unfounded allegations of paedophilia, threaten people at their place of work and using vulgar language infront of children?

Thats the whole point of Freedom of speech, you can say anything unless it actively calls for violence, since no one on this planet can arbitrate/judge your speech without bias. Not a hard concept to understand.

 

[miandadrules]

Can someone post the exact point in the syllabus, curriculum and resources used that they think are inappropriate for the respective age groups.

Also, I hear “freedom of speech” branded about as a defence. Freedom of speech comes with caveats, such as you can’t shout fire in a crowded area.

It’s become it has become abundantly clear that the posters who object such teaching have thoroughly researched the topic and aren’t just channelling bigotry which is a decades of psychological abuse.

That said, if you could point out exact resources you find objectionable and whether caveats aren’t being contravened.

Just a friendly reminder.

 

[DeadBall]

While I completely agree that society should not discriminate against homosexuals, I also feel that it should not be encouraged by making it out to be something that you can 'Choose to be'.

I haven't seen anything about this you can "choose to be gay" encouraged or taught anywhere. Most of their platform is that it's not a choice. I want to see what exactly is being taught in the syllabus and what exactly is in these "LGBT lessons", although I doubt it would be that you could choose to be gay when you grow up like you could choose to be a fireman or an astronaut.

Sex education too should be taught as the normal and natural act that it is. It's just the ones who were taught that it is impure, dirty etc before marriage and what not that have a problem with it. When teenagers are getting bombarded by hormones, most given the opportunity will do what comes naturally to them. Best way is to not totally ignore the problem due to religion, culture etc but to educate the kids to do it in the safest way.

It is evident that in countries with more prevalent sex education available to young people leads to higher contraceptive use and lower teen pregnancy rates. In fact, here in Germany the teen pregnancy rate is 3 times less than the U.S. But it seems that those who have strong religious convictions when it comes to sex, especially on controversial issues like abortion and homosexuality, will continue to protest the idea.

Also most parents should stop thinking that their offspring are the ultimate angels, most they probably have and seen and know much more (especially in this day and age) than they think. It is better to equip them with the knowledge to handle situations when they arise rather than ignoring it and risking them messing it all up.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I never said it was and I am not being disrespectful to any religion. The thread title says "Muslim Parents" and the argument was the curriculum is against the tenets of his religion which happens to be islam.

I am not branding an entire religion, I am criticizing the parent/parents for bringing religion and play the usual minority victim card as a means to their protest. Hope you see the difference.

What is a Hindutva forum?

Now if the curriculum was actually being disrespectful to the religion,I would be the first person to commend the guy for having the guts to stand up for bullying, However making every topic a religious thing that is a trait in some people especially in the UK is what I don't agree with.

What is in the curriculum is just hearsay at the point. I have no problem my kid learning about being inclusive to all regardless of their age,gender,sexual orientation,race,ethnicity,religious beliefs etc etc etc. Now if there was actually things like touching yourself etc like some other poster said, I am not dumb that is clearly inappropriate and don't think the judges or the guys publishing the curriculum are that depraved to let something like that pass.

A Hindutva forum is where like minded people can make insulting and dismissive suggestions about religions they don't like. You are giving advice to Muslims to integrate or find somewhere else to get education, I am just returning that advice to you as a virtual immigrant on a Muslim website. Go find a Hindutva forum if you don't like the views here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Small sample size, but the British head-teacher who works with my wife at a primary school mentioned that schools are no more the same they used to be before. And is disgusted by the increasing LBGT legislations in schools. Hence she shifted out.

Pushing a child to fiddle with themselves to learn about their own sex, and encourage them to openly express their views on it/change if it they don't like it is not even ethical, let alone bringing religion into it.

This is what I am saying, it isn't actually a religious issue, but with the school in question being predominantly Muslim, obviously a religious tint has been given to it. Muslims it seems are more resistant to LGBT education being taught to their children than others, and thus the protests.

But as I said, if a judge has banned the protests, that's the end of the matter. Parents will just have to impart their own views to their children if they believe that the school curriculum on LGBT teachings is harmful.

 

[Sidilicious]

I agree with this. In the US, Muslims are much better integrated than over here.

It is pertinent to note, that in the UK, it is mostly down to one Pakistani community who have given British based Muslims a bad name.

Whilst I agree with your first sentence, lets be clear about this, it isn't a Muslim problem. At most it is a Pakistani problem due to a certain community who have tarnished our reputation here since the 90s.

I would add the Asian community to the group, not just Pakistani. I once met a Gujarati lady who could not speak any English despite having lived here for more than 20 years. I am guessing you are from London. East London itself is a huge proof of this.

In the UK for some reason all Asian societies are not as well integrated as they are in the US. The Indians in the US are way more integrated than here.

 

[HitWicket]

Thats the whole point of Freedom of speech, you can say anything unless it actively calls for violence, since no one on this planet can arbitrate/judge your speech without bias. Not a hard concept to understand.

Then thank God we don't have full freedom of speech so disgusting behaviour like that I listed above can be prevented.

 

[Technics 1210]

You seriously think freedom of speech should extend to being allowed to make unfounded allegations of paedophilia, threaten people at their place of work and using vulgar language infront of children?

You and the ilk, have no idea what freedom of speech in the UK actually means.

 

[HitWicket]

You and the ilk, have no idea what freedom of speech in the UK actually means.

There are no freedom of speech laws in the UK that allow you to make unfounded accusations of paedophilia or threaten people.

 

[Robert]

People are confusing upbringing with brainwashing.

A child is raised within a family, and the environment at home, thus a product of the home. What are these fools trying to tell us? That religious parents are brainwashing their children because their child sees them going to church every Sunday? It is brainwashing to thank the Good lord throughout the day because your child see you so? It is brainwashing to say grace at the dinner table because a child is saying a prayer?

Yeah, basically. It’s what happened to me. Took me decades to clear it all out of my head.

Though conditioning might be a better word. Brainwashing implies some sort of coercive Manchurian Candidate scenario.

 

[Robert]

Thats the whole point of Freedom of speech, you can say anything unless it actively calls for violence, since no one on this planet can arbitrate/judge your speech without bias. Not a hard concept to understand.

Freedom of speech has limits. One can be charged with slander or libel or hate speech.

 

[Technics 1210]

There are no freedom of speech laws in the UK that allow you to make unfounded accusations of paedophilia or threaten people.

That's not what I asked you, nothing to do with unfounded accusations. Basically you do not know.

If you have the sand in your words, explain how freedom of speech is defined in the UK - because I posit the notion, you do not know - I will bet all the money in my pockets.

Save the insecurities, come back with substance.


:

 

[HitWicket]

That's not what I asked you, nothing to do with unfounded accusations. Basically you do not know.

If you have the sand in your words, explain how freedom of speech is defined in the UK - because I posit the notion, you do not know - I will bet all the money in my pockets.

Save the insecurities, come back with substance.


:

You didn't ask anything at all...

Freedom of speech means the same anywhere in the world, the freedom to express your thoughts, ideas etc. without punishment or censorship. In the UK (as with generally any other country) we have freedom of speech to a limit. Limits that don't allow threats or unfounded accusations of serious criminal behaviour without repercussions.

 

[mgtow]

The freedom of speech do not allow you to facilitate hate speech against anybody's rights. You don't like their way of life, absolutely fine. But you can't force your way on them. How will you feel if they do the same to you?

Anti-Islam is hate. It is practically hate crime.

Whereas enforcing doctrine down the throat against their wills is dictatorship.

Either way, hatred and coercion are being spread in the name of freedom of speech/expression.

Muslims are not forcing the school to implement Sharia law. If anything, those liberal hypocrite are enforcing the doctrine down the throat on people against their wills. If anything, those doctrine should be optional - not forced upon people against their wills. And on kids? That is even worse. Only pathetic people with no standard of morality will defend this absurd decision.

 

[barah_admi]

People are letting it die, they'll regret it when the goverment starts using this against them to shutdown any dissent on the excuse of "verbal threats".

How soon we forget that in 2011 when students protested against rising tuition fees they were beaten by riot police. Yet this country has the audacity to complain about China and Hong Kong.

You lose that privilege by creating a hostile environment outside the school. Calling someone a pedophile and other similar terms in front of children is incredibly inappropriate.

Freedom of speech doesn't cover you in making threats against people at their place of work, making unfounded accusations of a paeophilic agenda or using vulgar language (especially in front of children).

How many people used the vulgar language you claim they did? What is the evidence for it? And is the use of vulgar language not part of freedom of speech? Or the right (under British law) for democratic protests?

You people are either liars or ignorants, because let me tell you some home truths - I have been to a number of white led, anti-government/Brexit/war protests where far worse language than "pedophile" has been used and nothing happened, no one was arrested, no protests were banned and in one such instance, I watched as the police laughed when Theresa May was called everything offensive under the sun. Why were these laws, and as you seem to be such upstanding, law abiding citizens, not used then?

Can you also explain to me why homosexuals are allowed to use far more vulgar, disparaging and race/religion baiting language, posters and placards during pride parades? Can you right now say that pride should also be banned?

Oh and how about the media? Why has it not brought to attention Jewish parents protesting in London, or the 70,000 strong Chedri Jewish community threatening to leave the country if the law regarding LGBT education is not changed? Did you read about it and if so, will you so vehemently deny them their rights too?
I look forward to hearing both of you answering all those questions.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I haven't seen anything about this you can "choose to be gay" encouraged or taught anywhere. Most of their platform is that it's not a choice. I want to see what exactly is being taught in the syllabus and what exactly is in these "LGBT lessons", although I doubt it would be that you could choose to be gay when you grow up like you could choose to be a fireman or an astronaut.

Sex education too should be taught as the normal and natural act that it is. It's just the ones who were taught that it is impure, dirty etc before marriage and what not that have a problem with it. When teenagers are getting bombarded by hormones, most given the opportunity will do what comes naturally to them. Best way is to not totally ignore the problem due to religion, culture etc but to educate the kids to do it in the safest way.

It is evident that in countries with more prevalent sex education available to young people leads to higher contraceptive use and lower teen pregnancy rates. In fact, here in Germany the teen pregnancy rate is 3 times less than the U.S. But it seems that those who have strong religious convictions when it comes to sex, especially on controversial issues like abortion and homosexuality, will continue to protest the idea.

Also most parents should stop thinking that their offspring are the ultimate angels, most they probably have and seen and know much more (especially in this day and age) than they think. It is better to equip them with the knowledge to handle situations when they arise rather than ignoring it and risking them messing it all up.

They are now teaching young children how to masturbate .

Write a paper if you like but no respectable person would want kids going to school to learn this . I think it’s supposed to be ABC or 123?

 

[miandadrules]

They are now teaching young children how to masturbate .

Write a paper if you like but no respectable person would want kids going to school to learn this . I think it’s supposed to be ABC or 123?

Reference please.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You didn't ask anything at all...

Freedom of speech means the same anywhere in the world, the freedom to express your thoughts, ideas etc. without punishment or censorship. In the UK (as with generally any other country) we have freedom of speech to a limit. Limits that don't allow threats or unfounded accusations of serious criminal behaviour without repercussions.

You are actually a UK based Indian? I had assumed you were from some other country as you seemed to have no real feel for the way protests usually work here. Would it be fair to say you are a recent immigrant from India, perhaps a student or recent arrival on a work visa?

 

[Robert]

Anti-Islam is hate. It is practically hate crime.

Whereas enforcing doctrine down the throat against their wills is dictatorship.

Either way, hatred and coercion are being spread in the name of freedom of speech/expression.

Muslims are not forcing the school to implement Sharia law. If anything, those liberal hypocrite are enforcing the doctrine down the throat on people against their wills. If anything, those doctrine should be optional - not forced upon people against their wills. And on kids? That is even worse. Only pathetic people with no standard of morality will defend this absurd decision.

Explaining LGBT issues to schoolkids is not “enforcing the doctrine” - it is teaching acceptance and kindness.

 

[miandadrules]

Mods, have you censored requests for evidence?

We’ve got over a 100 posts and not a single shred of supporting evidence despite repeated requests.

It’s almost as if spewing vile homophobia is of greater importance than what is the truth.

One thing we can take away from this thread is that almost to a poster none have actually researched this topic nor analysed any of material.

It’s hardly surprising. They have been conditioned for years to illicit such a visceral response that they no longer recognise it as such. And now they want to instil such a response from their children.

Like the abused who subsequently abuse.

It’s this response that the programme is probably trying to address.

 

[JaDed]

You are actually a UK based Indian? I had assumed you were from some other country as you seemed to have no real feel for the way protests usually work here. Would it be fair to say you are a recent immigrant from India, perhaps a student or recent arrival on a work visa?

He is defn not an Indian, if he is , he is so whitewashed.(sorry)

 

[topspin]

I disagree, I think it is by no means a problem only of that community, assuming you are talking about Mirpuris. I'm not a Mirpuri but I wouldn't be happy about LBGT lessons or shared changing rooms for boys and girls. Not sure why you feel the need to explain yourself to someone sitting in India giving out lectures about gay rights anyway.

You can disagree but if you refer to that thread about those rental cars at a wedding, you'll find an overwhelming number of posters agree with me on this.

As for "LBGT lessons or shared changing rooms for boys and girls", I have explicitly mentioned that I don't agree with these teachings, if you look at post 60. If you read that, you'll find my issue is merely with how the protesters have conducted themselves.

Varun attributed the lesser integration of Muslims in the UK in comparison to our counterparts in the US (which is a fact), to be due to our religious identity. So I felt compelled to inform him that this was certainly not a Muslim problem, but at most a Pakistani problem (mostly due to a particular community).

 

[HitWicket]

You are actually a UK based Indian? I had assumed you were from some other country as you seemed to have no real feel for the way protests usually work here. Would it be fair to say you are a recent immigrant from India, perhaps a student or recent arrival on a work visa?

I'm UK based, not of any Asian descent, and UK born.

 

[topspin]

I think he is a false flagger, because the problem with Pakistanis, more importantly the nation's perception, did not begin until after 9/11. This is a cold hard fact for anyone who has lived in the UK long enough to know the ground realities.

A fitting post from someone who bashed Archer for playing the "victim card" after the racial abuse he suffered in the last game. It sums up the lack of credibility you hold as a poster.

Pakistani Gangs have been around long before 9/11, as also mentioned by [MENTION=149691]Captain caveman[/MENTION] earlier this week in another thread.

 

[HitWicket]

How many people used the vulgar language you claim they did? What is the evidence for it? And is the use of vulgar language not part of freedom of speech? Or the right (under British law) for democratic protests?

I'm unaware of exactly how many were. It only takes 1 guy with a megaphone though for everyone to hear it including the schoolchildren.

You people are either liars or ignorants, because let me tell you some home truths - I have been to a number of white led, anti-government/Brexit/war protests where far worse language than "pedophile" has been used and nothing happened, no one was arrested, no protests were banned and in one such instance, I watched as the police laughed when Theresa May was called everything offensive under the sun. Why were these laws, and as you seem to be such upstanding, law abiding citizens, not used then?

Because they weren't being used during regular protests outside a primary school with children around?

Can you also explain to me why homosexuals are allowed to use far more vulgar, disparaging and race/religion baiting language, posters and placards during pride parades? Can you right now say that pride should also be banned?

Whataboutism and the above.

Oh and how about the media? Why has it not brought to attention Jewish parents protesting in London, or the 70,000 strong Chedri Jewish community threatening to leave the country if the law regarding LGBT education is not changed? Did you read about it and if so, will you so vehemently deny them their rights too?

Not really something I've looked into extensively or relevant to anything I've said.

 

[Technics 1210]

A fitting post from someone who bashed Archer for playing the "victim card" after the racial abuse he suffered in the last game. It sums up the lack of credibility you hold as a poster.

Is that all you got? My opinion on Archer? Wow.

Pakistani Gangs have been around long before 9/11, as also mentioned by [MENTION=149691]Captain caveman[/MENTION] earlier this week in another thread.

Who said they were not?

Just correcting you that the perception of Pakistanis in the UK was not down to one particular group. The gangs you speak of barley made national news.

Everything changed in the UK post 9/11.

So if you want to pretend, at least read up on some history.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm UK based, not of any Asian descent, and UK born.

In that case you must know that these type of protests are no different to other protests held by many white groups, most of which get far more out of hand than this one. So I suggest instead of conserving your outrage for Muslims with advice to go find their own religious schools, you show a more even hand and do what I did - call out the behaviour at the protests rather than trying to link them to a froeign group of your disliking.

 

[HitWicket]

In that case you must know that these type of protests are no different to other protests held by many white groups, most of which get far more out of hand than this one.

I would support the restriction of any protest that involved threatening people (especially at their place of work) or using vulgar language outside a school whilst children are around.

So I suggest instead of conserving your outrage for Muslims with advice to go find their own religious schools,

Where exactly have I done this?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I would support the restriction of any protest that involved threatening people (especially at their place of work) or using vulgar language outside a school whilst children are around.



Where exactly have I done this?

My apologies, I was getting your replies mixed up with local Dada who is in fact Indian. I can see where the confusion arose now. Disregard my previous post.

 

[Technics 1210]

Freedom of speech has limits. One can be charged with slander or libel or hate speech.

Sorry mate that is not accurate.

You cannot use Freedom and Limits to describe the same thing.

In the UK, the law states, we have the right to freedom of expression, which is different to freedom of speech.

The phrase *Freedom of Speech* stems from political persecution, hence the freedom to criticise any government without fear of hindrance.

However these days, people make the mistake of equating freedom of expression with freedom of speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

 

[topspin]

Is that all you got? My opinion on Archer? Wow.




Who said they were not?

Just correcting you that the perception of Pakistanis in the UK was not down to one particular group. The gangs you speak of barley made national news.

Everything changed in the UK post 9/11.

So if you want to pretend, at least read up on some history.

As for the topic on Archer yes, that is enough for me to jump to such conclusion because when Moeen Ali spoke out after what was said to him by an Aussie, you didn't condemn him for doing exactly what Archer did. So overall, you just exposed your hypocrisy and double standards.

On top of that you insinuated that I'm not even from the UK.

As for 9/11, yes this did change the reputation of Muslims, however we're talking about integration here.

Even though the attacks on the WTC happened in the US, Muslims are still far better integrated over there in comparison to their counterparts in the UK, even though Britain has a far more tolerant society.

This is enough to tell you that religious identity isn't holding back Muslims from being as well integrated in the UK. I won't go into the reasons of why this is because I've already addressed this before.

 

[miandadrules]

Leaflets falsely claim pupils taught masturbation in relationship classes

The education secretary, Gavin Williamson, has said all schools will be given support to teach relationship education, after leaflets suggesting that lessons encourage primary school children to masturbate were handed out in London.

Other material seen by the BBC said parents “will be questioned on the day of judgment” if they do not challenge the lessons on compulsory relationships education in primary schools in England and relationships and sex education (RSE) in secondary schools from September 2020.

The leaflets were distributed by the RSE School Gate Campaign group, which has since removed the claim that infants would be encouraged to masturbate in its literature.

New flyers say some teaching resources will introduce words such as masturbation to juniors. This is written in draft teaching guidance for at least one English local authority.

Williamson said on Friday : “We shouldn’t be seeing protests outside any schools. We want to make sure all pupils, parents and teachers are able to go to those schools freely without any form of intimidation. We will be there supporting and backing every single school – that’s what we have been doing.

“The purpose of it is, we wanted to make sure every single school is able to teach about Britain as it is today – but also have the flexibility to ensure that it has an understanding of the communities which it operates in.”

The School Gate Campaign said it stood by the leaflets’ other accusations including that relationship education lessons would promote “transgenderism and homosexual lifestyles”.

Rohit Dasgupta, a Labour councillor in Newham, east London, said local officials had a duty to counter the “misinformation”.

He wrote on Twitter: “It is extremely important to teach our children values of equality & respect. The government needs to grow a backbone & support schools.”

Dasgupta said the leaflets were a form of intimidation and contained untruths.

He showed the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire programme an example that claimed RSE would promote “transgenderism and homosexual lifestyles” and “pervert the course of natural child development”.

It added that “children in infant school will be encouraged to masturbate. First sexual experiences will be encouraged by the age of 12.”

Dasgupta said parents had also been targeted through messaging apps, with many being told there would be “consequences” if they did not attend a forthcoming parents’ meeting about RSE.

He told the programme: “I think it’s important that parents are told exactly what their children are taught. But at the end of the day the teachers, headteachers, curriculum educators are the experts.”

The councillor added: “This is about making sure we teach our children about equality.”

The government wants primary schools to cover issues including single parenting, adoption and same-sex relationships but said it would be for individual schools to decide what is age appropriate.

The proposal has led to leafleting campaigns and hundreds of mainly Muslim campaigners protesting at the gates of some primary schools.

In July, parents who spent five months in mediation with teachers at a primary school in Birmingham over LGBT equality lessons resumed protests after the school announced it would be relaunching equality teaching in September.

Parents of pupils at Parkfield community school in Saltley staged weekly protests over the relationship lessons, which they claimed promoted gay and transgender lifestyles.

In March, hundreds of mainly Muslim children, aged between four and 11, were withdrawn from the school for the day.

The RSE School Gate Campaign said: “The majority of parents do not agree with the current approach to sex education, which demands ever more explicit sex education at ever younger ages.”

The Department for Education said RSE was a vital subject and schools would be supported to deliver lessons to a high standard.

It said it was working closely with schools which had volunteered to introduce the subject next month, and was setting up a working group including parents, young people and representatives of faith and minority groups to consider the delivery of the lessons.

Parents with concerns were urged to “talk to their child’s school in a calm and constructive way”.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...s-taught-masturbation-in-relationship-classes

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You can disagree but if you refer to that thread about those rental cars at a wedding, you'll find an overwhelming number of posters agree with me on this.

As for "LBGT lessons or shared changing rooms for boys and girls", I have explicitly mentioned that I don't agree with these teachings, if you look at post 60. If you read that, you'll find my issue is merely with how the protesters have conducted themselves.

Varun attributed the lesser integration of Muslims in the UK in comparison to our counterparts in the US (which is a fact), to be due to our religious identity. So I felt compelled to inform him that this was certainly not a Muslim problem, but at most a Pakistani problem (mostly due to a particular community).

Varun wasn't so quick to answer about how LGBT rights were coming along in Indian schools, you didn't notice that?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Leaflets falsely claim pupils taught masturbation in relationship classes

The education secretary, Gavin Williamson, has said all schools will be given support to teach relationship education, after leaflets suggesting that lessons encourage primary school children to masturbate were handed out in London.

Other material seen by the BBC said parents “will be questioned on the day of judgment” if they do not challenge the lessons on compulsory relationships education in primary schools in England and relationships and sex education (RSE) in secondary schools from September 2020.

The leaflets were distributed by the RSE School Gate Campaign group, which has since removed the claim that infants would be encouraged to masturbate in its literature.

New flyers say some teaching resources will introduce words such as masturbation to juniors. This is written in draft teaching guidance for at least one English local authority.

Williamson said on Friday : “We shouldn’t be seeing protests outside any schools. We want to make sure all pupils, parents and teachers are able to go to those schools freely without any form of intimidation. We will be there supporting and backing every single school – that’s what we have been doing.

“The purpose of it is, we wanted to make sure every single school is able to teach about Britain as it is today – but also have the flexibility to ensure that it has an understanding of the communities which it operates in.”

The School Gate Campaign said it stood by the leaflets’ other accusations including that relationship education lessons would promote “transgenderism and homosexual lifestyles”.

Rohit Dasgupta, a Labour councillor in Newham, east London, said local officials had a duty to counter the “misinformation”.

He wrote on Twitter: “It is extremely important to teach our children values of equality & respect. The government needs to grow a backbone & support schools.”

Dasgupta said the leaflets were a form of intimidation and contained untruths.

He showed the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire programme an example that claimed RSE would promote “transgenderism and homosexual lifestyles” and “pervert the course of natural child development”.

It added that “children in infant school will be encouraged to masturbate. First sexual experiences will be encouraged by the age of 12.”

Dasgupta said parents had also been targeted through messaging apps, with many being told there would be “consequences” if they did not attend a forthcoming parents’ meeting about RSE.

He told the programme: “I think it’s important that parents are told exactly what their children are taught. But at the end of the day the teachers, headteachers, curriculum educators are the experts.”

The councillor added: “This is about making sure we teach our children about equality.”

The government wants primary schools to cover issues including single parenting, adoption and same-sex relationships but said it would be for individual schools to decide what is age appropriate.

The proposal has led to leafleting campaigns and hundreds of mainly Muslim campaigners protesting at the gates of some primary schools.

In July, parents who spent five months in mediation with teachers at a primary school in Birmingham over LGBT equality lessons resumed protests after the school announced it would be relaunching equality teaching in September.

Parents of pupils at Parkfield community school in Saltley staged weekly protests over the relationship lessons, which they claimed promoted gay and transgender lifestyles.

In March, hundreds of mainly Muslim children, aged between four and 11, were withdrawn from the school for the day.

The RSE School Gate Campaign said: “The majority of parents do not agree with the current approach to sex education, which demands ever more explicit sex education at ever younger ages.”

The Department for Education said RSE was a vital subject and schools would be supported to deliver lessons to a high standard.

It said it was working closely with schools which had volunteered to introduce the subject next month, and was setting up a working group including parents, young people and representatives of faith and minority groups to consider the delivery of the lessons.

Parents with concerns were urged to “talk to their child’s school in a calm and constructive way”.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...onship-classes

They are proposing to teach LGBT rights at primary school? I had assumed this was a senior school where pupils are 11-18 yrs old.

 

[miandadrules]

They are proposing to teach LGBT rights at primary school? I had assumed this was a senior school where pupils are 11-18 yrs old.

Genius!

 

[HitWicket]

Sorry mate that is not accurate.

You cannot use Freedom and Limits to describe the same thing.

In the UK, the law states, we have the right to freedom of expression, which is different to freedom of speech.

The law actually states we have freedom of expression with restrictions i.e limits.

 

[Technics 1210]

As for the topic on Archer yes, that is enough for me to jump to such conclusion because when Moeen Ali spoke out after what was said to him by an Aussie, you didn't condemn him for doing exactly what Archer did. So overall, you just exposed your hypocrisy and double standards.
.

What are you bleating on about? What hypocrisy? Did Ali tweet about his experience like Archer did? Was I even on PP when that topic was discussed?

Try harder if you want to shoot me down.

As for the rest of your glib, yes I insinuated you are not from the UK, simply because of this comment :

Whilst I agree with your first sentence, lets be clear about this, it isn't a Muslim problem. At most it is a Pakistani problem due to a certain community who have tarnished our reputation here since the 90s.

I do not need to know how life for Pakistanis and Muslims changed post 9/11, you just needed to know it was not the 90s that were responsible for the negative image of Pakistanis in the UK.

 

[miandadrules]

They are proposing to teach LGBT rights at primary school? I had assumed this was a senior school where pupils are 11-18 yrs old.

Which LGBTQ right shouldn’t they teach?

 

[Relic]

Which LGBTQ right shouldn’t they teach?

Why would you want to teach this kind of stuff to primary school kids??
Why are you so adamant on teaching it to kids?
You're seriously giving me some paedophilia-type vibes.


Would you teach about sexual stuff to kids who haven't even gone through (or even started) puberty yet?? What are they going to do with such information?

You're a VERY weird guy if you think it's appropriate to teach this kind of "relationship" stuff to kids.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Which LGBTQ right shouldn’t they teach?

Kids that age are usually not even thinking about partners of the opposite sex, let along same sex.

 

[Technics 1210]

Having a right is not the same as having a guarantee.

We have a right to appeal an official decision for example, but that does not mean we're guaranteed to win the appeal.

The protesters in the OP have the right to freely express themselves, which they did, but their expression was unlawful. Had they expressed themselves in another way, then they may not have been banned from protesting outside school.

If you want to know what Freedom of Speech really looks like, look no further than the USA. The 1st amendment explicitly states the words "freedom of speech".

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Right to freedom of expression [UK] vs. Freedom of Speech [USA].

In the UK for example, if a bunch of Nazis decided to hold a rally in central London, it will be illegal, and the protesters arrested, and dealt with. In the USA, Nazis can rally freely, shout Nazi slogans, conduct Nazi salutes etc, but there is not a single law in the USA that can touch them.

Try doing this in the UK : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-a-neo-nazi-rally-looks-like-in-2017-america/

The right to freedom of expression is not the same as freedom of speech.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Reference please.

All About Me teaching programme

Use a search engine, its easier.

 

[miandadrules]

All About Me teaching programme

Use a search engine, its easier.

Reference please.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Reference please.

Knock knock, anybody home?

I've just given you the name of the teaching programme. Google is now your friend. Are you denying this exists?

P.s try not to ask a question again lol

 

[Itachi]

Kids that age are usually not even thinking about partners of the opposite sex, let along same sex.

That's what I think too.

As I have said earlier, it is as if you are teaching multiplication and division without teaching addition and subtraction.

This will confuse the kids even more than they will be.

 

[miandadrules]

Knock knock, anybody home?

I've just given you the name of the teaching programme. Google is now your friend. Are you denying this exists?

P.s try not to ask a question again lol

I’m not sure why substantiating your claims is so difficult.

You’ve made a lot of claims, so simply highlight specific examples which we can scrutinise.

But that would be assuming you’re a good faith actor and not a disgusting bigot.

It’s plainly obvious that you have not looked in to this topic at all and are merely parroting bigoted talking points.

I hope you prove me wrong and we can have finally have an open and honest discussion.

But your track record suggests that won’t be the case.

 

[miandadrules]

Kids that age are usually not even thinking about partners of the opposite sex, let along same sex.

I’m sorry, you didn’t seem to answer the question.

Which LGBTQ rights shouldn’t they teach?

Kids of what age?

Where are you getting your information from?


Can you please expand on your statement about kids thinking about sex?

 

[miandadrules]

Why would you want to teach this kind of stuff to primary school kids??
Why are you so adamant on teaching it to kids?
You're seriously giving me some paedophilia-type vibes.


Would you teach about sexual stuff to kids who haven't even gone through (or even started) puberty yet?? What are they going to do with such information?

You're a VERY weird guy if you think it's appropriate to teach this kind of "relationship" stuff to kids.

1. Teach what kind of stuff to primary school kids? Please provide some references so we can discuss what is and isn’t suitable.

I think that’s a fair request. At the moment it’s just vitriol.

2. I am adamant on stamping about prejudice and discrimination.

3. Once again when you can’t defend your position resort to ad hominem.

Please provide some proof of your paedo claim.

Also, I don’t belong to a faith that legitimise the said abuse, so your cognitive dissonance is on display.

4. Once again, you made a claim about certain teaching to certain age groups. Yet, you have given any facts let a lone any evidence. Teach what, to which age group.

Please be specific and provide some evidence so we can see what the truth is.

5. Teach what kind of relationship to which age group? Be specific.

Find out what resources are being used, what the syllabus is etc... and then you might have a point.

 

[barah_admi]

I'm unaware of exactly how many were. It only takes 1 guy with a megaphone though for everyone to hear it including the schoolchildren.



Because they weren't being used during regular protests outside a primary school with children around?



Whataboutism and the above.



Not really something I've looked into extensively or relevant to anything I've said.

I am struggling to see how you have answered anything here. Is your claim that if there are children around the British people no longer have the right to protest and freedom of speech/expression? Because that is all you have said.

"but but children..."

Mate you better come up with something fast or I will annihilate you on your hypocrisy and ignorance just like I have the likes of robert and mamoon.

 

[Robert]

They are now teaching young children how to masturbate .

Write a paper if you like but no respectable person would want kids going to school to learn this . I think it’s supposed to be ABC or 123?

Fake news.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/aug/30/leaflets-falsely-claim-pupils-taught-masturbation-in-relationship-classes

 

[HitWicket]

I am struggling to see how you have answered anything here. Is your claim that if there are children around the British people no longer have the right to protest and freedom of speech/expression? Because that is all you have said.

"but but children..."

Mate you better come up with something fast or I will annihilate you on your hypocrisy and ignorance just like I have the likes of robert and mamoon.

Everyone has the right to protest. No one should have the right to threaten or intimidate others, use vulgar language or accuse people of crimes without basis during those protests.

 

[barah_admi]

Everyone has the right to protest. No one should have the right to threaten or intimidate others, use vulgar language or accuse people of crimes without basis during those protests.

You admitted that "I'm unaware of exactly how many were. It only takes 1 guy with a megaphone though for everyone to hear it including the schoolchildren.".

So you don't know what happened but you have just stated there were people supposedly threatening and trying to intimidate others and using vulgar language, then accusing them of crimes.

I will ask you again, how many people were there? What did they say? WHo was it aimed at? And if it was one or two, why was the entire protest shut down?

NOW, if you believe even one bad apple being there and saying the things you claimed were said is enough for protests to shut down, will you now go on record and state all anti-government, anti-brexit, anti-war and pro-pride protests should be shut down too? As I have seen and I am sure if you searched for it yourself would also see, far worse language used at those events.

This is very simple. The second part is a yes or no answer.

 

[HitWicket]

You admitted that "I'm unaware of exactly how many were. It only takes 1 guy with a megaphone though for everyone to hear it including the schoolchildren.".

So you don't know what happened but you have just stated there were people supposedly threatening and trying to intimidate others and using vulgar language, then accusing them of crimes.

I never stated I was unaware of what happened. The threats/intimidation, vulgar language, and accusations of criminal agendas are all public knowledge.

I will ask you again, how many people were there? What did they say? WHo was it aimed at? And if it was one or two, why was the entire protest shut down?

I'm unaware of how many people were there, the rest is all covered in the article I provided earlier (and other papers/the statement from the court). The protest hasn't been shut down, it's been moved down the road from the school after many months regularly occurring right outside. If you've got a regular protest occurring with members making the comments made above (particularly through megaphones and PA systems outside a school) then of course action is going to have to be taken.

NOW, if you believe even one bad apple being there and saying the things you claimed were said is enough for protests to shut down, will you now go on record and state all anti-government, anti-brexit, anti-war and pro-pride protests should be shut down too? As I have seen and I am sure if you searched for it yourself would also see, far worse language used at those events.

If there are regular protests occurring involving the using of vulgar language, threats/intimidation or baseless accusations of criminal agendas then of course they should go through the same process.

 

[moghul]

Spend time with your children at home and give your religious and cultural training and education at home. Can;t change the country to follow your believe, or go back .