Muslims 'outraged' by billboard that insults prophet Mohammed PBUH

[troodon]

INDIANAPOLIS — An anti-Muslim billboard disparaging the prophet Mohammed that can be seen from an Indiana highway on the east side of Indianapolis is drawing concern from local Muslims.

Now, Islamic leaders in Indianapolis are challenging those responsible for what they say are offensive and untrue statements to stand by their words, shed their anonymity and explain their motivations.

"It is a horrible billboard. I'm outraged by it, but saddened at the same time ... and I would like to know who is behind it," said Rima Shahid, executive director of the Muslim Alliance of Indiana. "It seems very cowardly to me. If you have some kind of stance, you should want to stand up next to your statement. I didn't think there was any room for hate in our city. This billboard tells me otherwise.

"This kind of rhetoric just furthers division in our state and makes a neighbor question a neighbor, just like I am today."

More: Facebook posts in Pakistan can be deadly — especially fake ones

Shahid said the billboard, which she saw on southbound Interstate 465, was brought to her attention Friday by an anonymous tipster.

The all black billboard has a headline of "The Perfect Man." Underneath are six bullet points to describe that man. These points include "married a 6-year-old," "slave owner & dealer" and "13 wives, 11 at one time."

At the bottom of the billboard in yellow sits the words "Educate Truthophobes." A search of Truthophobes online leads to multiple anti-Muslim groups, specifically an Australian group with similar messaging.

U.S. Rep. Andre Carson, D-Indianapolis, said he believes the billboard is untrue and that the billboard's author takes Islamic text and history out of context "just like al-Qaeda, ISIS and the Klan do to religious texts to justify their bigotry."

Faryal Khatri, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based Islamic Society of North America, said not only is the billboard not true, it is hurtful to her as a practicing Muslim.

More: Ariz. man gets 30 years for Islamic State-inspired attack

To Khatri, the most disappointing aspect of the sign is that it could incite hate crimes toward Muslims or people perceived to be Muslim.

Since 2015, anti-Muslim hate crimes have increased by 78% in the United States, according to researchers at California State University.

“This kind of rhetoric just furthers division in our state and makes a neighbor question a neighbor, just like I am today.”
Rima Shahid, executive director of the Muslim Alliance of Indiana
Last month, a 35-year-old white supremacist is accused of fatally stabbing two men and injured another who were defending two girls — one of whom was wearing a hijab — on a light rail train in Portland, Ore. In court, the suspected attacker, Jeremy Joseph Christian, called the act "patriotism."

Carson said he is disappointed that people have decided to use their free speech protections as a platform "to spread hateful, vile things that are divisive to people."

"I think there's a way to debate and be socratic without being disrespectful or undermining people and causing a sense of isolation."

Carson called on people in the faith community to "come together and say this is unacceptable," especially in light of an upcoming "March Against Sharia," that is scheduled to occur in 28 American cities — including Chicago, Indianapolis, New York and San Bernardino, Calif., this week.

The event is organized by a group called ACT for America, a self-described grassroots national security organization.

"Sharia is incompatible (sic) with our Constitution and with American values. We stand against female genital mutilations and child marriages," state the details of the event. A representative from ACT was not available for comment.

The billboard comes at a time when there is increased scrutiny of Muslims and Islam.

In December 2015, on the campaign trail, then-presidential candidate Donald Trump called for a "total and complete ban" on Muslims entering the U.S., to prevent terrorists from entering the country.

Carson calls it "fear-mongering."

There is no organization claiming responsibility for the billboard. Shahid said the billboard also doesn't bear any company name, indicating that it is privately owned.

"It's just a group of cowards who are not even ready to put their name behind it," Shahid said as she expressed the pain she felt to see this billboard in the midst of Ramadan.

"It is very hard ... and I would like to find the people who are behind this and talk to the them about who came up with these, and it seems appropriate to use this term, alternative facts.

"Muslims represent about 3% of our state's population. The fact is that most people have never met a Muslim, and there are so many misconceptions and so many divisions, and this kind of hate furthers those divisions."



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...utraged-billboard-prophet-mohammed/373120001/

 

[ahmedzee]

What a non-sense and hateful billboard?

"Married 6 year old" ? What are they talking about?

Good it is brought in the mainsteam media immediately.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Trump ka America!

 

[PakLFC]

They should deal with it in a civil and calm manner. Explain to them that life in ancient Arabia can't be compared to the internet era moreover most of the accusations are simply untrue. If need be the history of Christian faith can be made an example off as well. Take a look of the history of the church for example. No point in losing your cool when a challenge is thrown your way.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

What a non-sense and hateful billboard?

"Married 6 year old" ? What are they talking about?

Good it is brought in the mainsteam media immediately.

Ulema should unite on this point and destroy or edit all the literature from where opponents pick this stuff and mock Prophet Pbuh and mother of believers RA.


Some defend it by saying that She was wed at 6 but she renained with her parents until 10-11 when she became adult. Other's would try to justify that she became adult much earlier than usual etc etc.


We must edit or delete this. For me none of these is facts.


May Allah give hidayat to the Opponents aswell. This is like Crossing Red Line but I am afraid Aethiest don't bother about religious emotions of others.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

They should deal with it in a civil and calm manner. Explain to them that life in ancient Arabia can't be compared to the internet era moreover most of the accusations are simply untrue. If need be the history of Christian faith can be made an example off as well. Take a look of the history of the church for example. No point in losing your cool when a challenge is thrown your way.

I disagree. Your Ulema do not do research. They are too busy.


They need to fight it out with the power of Pen worlwide and educate Non Believers about real facts.

 

[Heisenberg]

Ulema should unite on this point and destroy or edit all the literature from where opponents pick this stuff and mock Prophet Pbuh and mother of believers RA.


Some defend it by saying that She was wed at 6 but she renained with her parents until 10-11 when she became adult. Other's would try to justify that she became adult much earlier than usual etc etc.


We must edit or delete this. For me none of these is facts.


May Allah give hidayat to the Opponents aswell. This is like Crossing Red Line but I am afraid Aethiest don't bother about religious emotions of others.

Why would you reject Sahih Hadith?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage

Did Muhammad marry A’isha when she was only six years old?


Contemporary critics have repeatedly claimed that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was not of age. Facts indicate that A’isha was no younger than 12-13 at the time of her willing marriage with parental consent. We invite the reader to consider several factors before formulating a final opinion.


Before we delve into Islamic history, consider that the age deemed “acceptable” for marriage is not an objective standard across time, culture, and religion—but a subjective standard based on social construct. For example, the Catholic Encyclopaedia reports regarding Mary, mother of Jesus:


… the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice of God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.[1]


Likewise, the Talmud states, “Marrying off one’s daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one’s Slave.”[2] In fact, the Talmud presents some shocking guidance on marriage, also stating, “A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his.”[3] So while the Catholic Encyclopaedia tells us that Mary and Joseph were married at the ages of 12-14 and 90, respectively, the Talmud permits marrying girls as young as three years and one day. Lest this seem like an attack on Christianity and Judaism—which it is not—we present marriage laws in the West.


For centuries in Scotland, the age of consent for girls was 12—and parental consent was unnecessary.[4] Only in 1929 was the age raised to 16 for girls.[5] But in America even today, A’isha’s consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad would be considered valid. For example, in New Hampshire, the legal age for girls is 13 with parental consent.[6] In Massachusetts, the legal age for girls is 12 with parental consent.[7] In Mississippi, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[8] In California, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[9]


Granted, the American state laws were passed in the 19th and 20th centuries—not today. And granted, American’s aged 12 or 13 do not typically get married today. The point still stands, however, that even in recent American history, American’s found value—not objection—in marrying at 12 or 13, or even younger, and passed laws through their state legislatures to affirm their value. This exercise in no way argues for a return to such marrying ages. Rather, it merely establishes the point that “appropriate” marriage age is based on social construct—not some supposed objective, advanced contemporary standard. Therefore, if we are to accuse Prophet Muhammad of any impropriety in marrying A’isha even if she was 12-13, then we must also condemn the Old Testament, New Testament, the Europe, and numerous American states.


Above discussion demonstrates that A’iha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad, even if she was 12 or 13, was not by any means unusual when compared across time and culture—even to contemporary standards. Now we shall demonstrate that the assertion that A’isha was only six is meritless.


In determining authenticity of the related tradition (Hadith), it is necessary to consider how many different narrators can relate a Hadith back to the original source—be that source Prophet Muhammad, A’isha, or a companion. The more narrators exist and the more in agreement they are with one another—the more authentic we may consider the Hadith.


Virtually every narration that relates A’isha’s age at six is tied to Hisham ibn ‘Urwah, who then reports on his father’s authority. This is problematic for several reasons.


First, Hisham ibn ‘Urwah is the only person to narrate this Hadith. This is problematic because now, no opportunity exists for corroboration. Next, Hisham related this Hadith in his old age—a time during which he admits he suffered severe memory loss. For example, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, a premier book on the credibility of Hadith narrators cites Ya‘qub ibn Shaibah to report, “Narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq.”[10] Likewise, “Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq.”[11] History records that Hisham emigrated to Iraq in his old age and suffered severe memory loss, after living in Medina for the first 71 years of his life.[12] More specifically, Yaqub ibn Shaibah relates, “He [that is, Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after shifting to Iraq.”[13]


The Hadith that relate A’isha’s age at six are from Hisham ibn ‘Urwah after he immigrated to Iraq. Thus, such Hadith are not only isolated in their claim, but also unreliable due to his old age and extensive memory loss. Most critics wholly disregard these substantive inconsistencies.


On the contrary, several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts.


Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28. This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad.


The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six. The examples we have presented, however, should more than suffice that A’isha was not six, but instead, that she was a mature adult who married Prophet Muhammad of her own free will.



[1] The Catholic Encyclopedia: An International Reference of Work on the Constitution, Doctrine, Dicipline, and History of the Catholic Church, New York Robert Appleton Company, Vol. VIII, Pg. 505.
[2] Talmud, Pesachim 113a.
[3] Talmud, Sanhedrin 55b.
[4] G T Bisset-Smith. 1st edition. Edinburgh: William Green & Sons, (1902).
[5] Id.
[6] New Hampshire Title 53, Chapter 457, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[7] Massachusetts Title III, Chapter 207, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[8] Mississippi Title 93, Chapter 1, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[9] California Family Code §§ 300-500, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[10] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[11] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[12] Mizan al-I‘tidal, Vol. 4, pg. 301 – 302.
[13] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Islami, Vol. 11, pg. 50).
[14] Tarikh al-umam wal-mamloo’k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, pg. 50 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr, Beirut, 1979).
[15] Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Az-Zahabi, Vol. 2, pg. 289 (Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risala’h, Beirut, 1992).
[16] Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933 and and Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 371 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933).



http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?m...ad-sa-married-ayesha-ra-when-she-was-underage



This is how you defend false allegations. You have social media to educate people with this link.



[MENTION=2551]ahmedzee[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Why would you reject Sahih Hadith?

I have answered you in post number 8.

 

[Black Zero]

Muslims ought not be outraged by the billboard as everything in this board is recorded by ancient muslim scholars.

Age of Aisha at Marriage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Jews beheaded in one day and thrown in a mass grave (middle of medina of that time): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Torture of a non believer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenana_ibn_al-Rabi

(I do not think it's required to provide reference for numerous wives, slaves or rape as sadly modern muslims still find these acts justified.)

Earlier muslims truthfully recorded those events as for them these acts were morally correct. If modern muslims do feel these actions distasteful then I would say that their outrage is misdirected.

Apologist try their best acrobats and wish to deny, but in this age all their efforts would fail.

 

[Mamoon]

Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage

Did Muhammad marry A’isha when she was only six years old?


Contemporary critics have repeatedly claimed that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was not of age. Facts indicate that A’isha was no younger than 12-13 at the time of her willing marriage with parental consent. We invite the reader to consider several factors before formulating a final opinion.


Before we delve into Islamic history, consider that the age deemed “acceptable” for marriage is not an objective standard across time, culture, and religion—but a subjective standard based on social construct. For example, the Catholic Encyclopaedia reports regarding Mary, mother of Jesus:


… the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice of God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.[1]


Likewise, the Talmud states, “Marrying off one’s daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one’s Slave.”[2] In fact, the Talmud presents some shocking guidance on marriage, also stating, “A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his.”[3] So while the Catholic Encyclopaedia tells us that Mary and Joseph were married at the ages of 12-14 and 90, respectively, the Talmud permits marrying girls as young as three years and one day. Lest this seem like an attack on Christianity and Judaism—which it is not—we present marriage laws in the West.


For centuries in Scotland, the age of consent for girls was 12—and parental consent was unnecessary.[4] Only in 1929 was the age raised to 16 for girls.[5] But in America even today, A’isha’s consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad would be considered valid. For example, in New Hampshire, the legal age for girls is 13 with parental consent.[6] In Massachusetts, the legal age for girls is 12 with parental consent.[7] In Mississippi, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[8] In California, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[9]


Granted, the American state laws were passed in the 19th and 20th centuries—not today. And granted, American’s aged 12 or 13 do not typically get married today. The point still stands, however, that even in recent American history, American’s found value—not objection—in marrying at 12 or 13, or even younger, and passed laws through their state legislatures to affirm their value. This exercise in no way argues for a return to such marrying ages. Rather, it merely establishes the point that “appropriate” marriage age is based on social construct—not some supposed objective, advanced contemporary standard. Therefore, if we are to accuse Prophet Muhammad of any impropriety in marrying A’isha even if she was 12-13, then we must also condemn the Old Testament, New Testament, the Europe, and numerous American states.


Above discussion demonstrates that A’iha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad, even if she was 12 or 13, was not by any means unusual when compared across time and culture—even to contemporary standards. Now we shall demonstrate that the assertion that A’isha was only six is meritless.


In determining authenticity of the related tradition (Hadith), it is necessary to consider how many different narrators can relate a Hadith back to the original source—be that source Prophet Muhammad, A’isha, or a companion. The more narrators exist and the more in agreement they are with one another—the more authentic we may consider the Hadith.


Virtually every narration that relates A’isha’s age at six is tied to Hisham ibn ‘Urwah, who then reports on his father’s authority. This is problematic for several reasons.


First, Hisham ibn ‘Urwah is the only person to narrate this Hadith. This is problematic because now, no opportunity exists for corroboration. Next, Hisham related this Hadith in his old age—a time during which he admits he suffered severe memory loss. For example, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, a premier book on the credibility of Hadith narrators cites Ya‘qub ibn Shaibah to report, “Narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq.”[10] Likewise, “Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq.”[11] History records that Hisham emigrated to Iraq in his old age and suffered severe memory loss, after living in Medina for the first 71 years of his life.[12] More specifically, Yaqub ibn Shaibah relates, “He [that is, Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after shifting to Iraq.”[13]


The Hadith that relate A’isha’s age at six are from Hisham ibn ‘Urwah after he immigrated to Iraq. Thus, such Hadith are not only isolated in their claim, but also unreliable due to his old age and extensive memory loss. Most critics wholly disregard these substantive inconsistencies.


On the contrary, several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts.


Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28. This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad.


The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six. The examples we have presented, however, should more than suffice that A’isha was not six, but instead, that she was a mature adult who married Prophet Muhammad of her own free will.



[1] The Catholic Encyclopedia: An International Reference of Work on the Constitution, Doctrine, Dicipline, and History of the Catholic Church, New York Robert Appleton Company, Vol. VIII, Pg. 505.
[2] Talmud, Pesachim 113a.
[3] Talmud, Sanhedrin 55b.
[4] G T Bisset-Smith. 1st edition. Edinburgh: William Green & Sons, (1902).
[5] Id.
[6] New Hampshire Title 53, Chapter 457, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[7] Massachusetts Title III, Chapter 207, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[8] Mississippi Title 93, Chapter 1, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[9] California Family Code §§ 300-500, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[10] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[11] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[12] Mizan al-I‘tidal, Vol. 4, pg. 301 – 302.
[13] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Islami, Vol. 11, pg. 50).
[14] Tarikh al-umam wal-mamloo’k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, pg. 50 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr, Beirut, 1979).
[15] Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Az-Zahabi, Vol. 2, pg. 289 (Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risala’h, Beirut, 1992).
[16] Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933 and and Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 371 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933).



http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?m...ad-sa-married-ayesha-ra-when-she-was-underage



This is how you defend false allegations. You have social media to educate people with this link.



[MENTION=2551]ahmedzee[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Good share though. The marriage to Aisha has long been used by the critics as ammo, but it has been one of the few topics that has been successfully and intelligently argued by Muslims scholars around the world. I myself have had long discussions on this point and have provided ample evidence to refute the claims. However, most people refuse to budge from their views even in light of evidence, so you can't help them.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Good share though. The marriage to Aisha has long been used by the critics as ammo, but it has been one of the few topics that has been successfully and intelligently argued by Muslims scholars around the world. I myself have had long discussions on this point and have provided ample evidence to refute the claims. However, most people refuse to budge from their views even in light of evidence, so you can't help them.

Our job is to just get the message through. Some will stop raising this allegation while there will always be those who will be like " Mein Na Manoon ". We shouldn't be bothered about whatever they say.


If Christians do this than they should be told what their own literature states. " 3 years 1 month "


Anyhow it does hurt alot but we will have to bear it patiently. We have been taught Sabbar by He Pbuh.


All Prophets in the History have been mocked. Allegations were made against each one of them. This is Norm of the mankind. Unfortunate but Fact.

 

[PakLFC]

I disagree. Your Ulema do not do research. They are too busy.


They need to fight it out with the power of Pen worlwide and educate Non Believers about real facts.

That is what I am saying. What they should not do is taking the law in to their own hands. We should ask ourselves how the Prophet9saw, pbuh) would want for us to react. He would want for us to act in a civil and mature manner instead of getting violent.

 

[humzy]

a 50 year old marrying a girl whether 6 - 8 or 12 is not a great look for the religion either way. I think there should be a consensus with both Muslims and non Muslims that it is wrong and no one should be doing this. We should also accept that this was normal practice in the ancient world.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Muslims ought not be outraged by the billboard as everything in this board is recorded by ancient muslim scholars.

Age of Aisha at Marriage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Jews beheaded in one day and thrown in a mass grave (middle of medina of that time): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Torture of a non believer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenana_ibn_al-Rabi

(I do not think it's required to provide reference for numerous wives, slaves or rape as sadly modern muslims still find these acts justified.)

Earlier muslims truthfully recorded those events as for them these acts were morally correct. If modern muslims do feel these actions distasteful then I would say that their outrage is misdirected.

Apologist try their best acrobats and wish to deny, but in this age all their efforts would fail.

" Our " biggest fight now is not with other religions or sects but with " Aethiest Brigades "


Yes Aethiesm the Fastest growing thing.


Thankfully our fight is peaceful and it doesn't harm anyone.


No matter how hard you try we will fight you till our last breath.


There are two British Doctors in their early Twenties named Tahir Nasser & Umar Nasser. There is a channel Rational Religion and there is a website too. Live debates with Aethiests are carried out while through videos opponents videos are answered too. Alhamdoulillah we have succeeded not only in silencing many but have brought many in the folds of Islam too.


You would love to go with Dr Israr Shah wrt Concubines as that suits you. While we ? We quote even non Muslim writers and scholars who have written books on Life of Mohammad Pbuh mentioning that any physical relation was established only after performing Nikah.


You would love to quote Ahadees of Ayesha RA being 6 or Concubines etc but than you won't bother about the fact that after how many centuries bukhari, Muslim were compiled and between this and He Pbuh death how many generations had passed. Any hadith which contradicts Quranic injunction or principle will be binned.


You Aethiests love to penpicture as if Women or young girls was Naoozbillah jeena merna, day night of my Master Pbuh. Yet you can't open your eyes to Hadith where a Lady who had Nikah with He Pbuh said " Mein Aap se Allah ki Panah maangti hun " and He Pbuh did not even say why ? Did not try to convince her or justify anything and instead fulfilled her will there and than.


Is this how concubine/slave thirsty men act ? Haan ?


When one night it was Ayesha RA's turn He Pbuh left his bed midnight. She did not like it and thought He had gone to other home when it was her night and followed her. She found him pbuh in a graveyard crying and prayinh for people like you and me. This was Mohammad Pbuh.


Whatever Zaeef Ahadees suits you and Jaahil Israr Shah you people hug them tightly and say Oh its 100 % true. While wherever the true picture of He Pbuh is painted you people say Oh it's all buildup and stories.


Those you possess under your right hands does not mean that you can have physical relations with them without Marriage Pact. Make it clear. They were under right hand because they were capfured during wars. This was a culture of the time. At those times there were no jails to jail them. So they were distributed and option was to either release them or release them for money or marry them. That's it.

All this was done for deterrence. To discourage opponents women and children from fighting in wars. Already they were in huge numbers.



This is Ramadan. Come back to prayers just for 2 weeks and daily do Istakhara prayers and offer tahajjud. Cry in Sajdaaz of Salaat that Oh Creator if there is any Creator any God than show me light. God willing If you work hard with best Intention than InshaAllah on any of the Taaq nights you will be Blessed with Lailatul Qadarr and will see light of a Living God who shows himself to those who try to find him.


I am requesting you since you aren't someone who was never practicing muslim or never bothered reading Islam. Rather you have studied and practiced quite abit and than drifted away.


Meray kehne pe aik aakhri mujaheda ker k dekhein. Agar Allah ne Kashaffi nizaray ya roya se mutmaein ker diya tou fine. Nai tou jahan hein jesay hein waheen raheeay ga.


Aap yaqeenun aik kamyaab insaan houn ge. Jahan dunya ki kamyaabi k liye itni taggo dou kee hai wahan Khuda ko paanay k liye bhee thora mujahedaa ker lein. Agar hai tou aapko bta dey ga k wo hai. Thori koshish tou kero.


Choarho Mullah ko. Khuda Aaj bhee bolta hai. Aap Walli bunnay ki koshish tou kero.


You won't believe. We did not have Tv. My grandfather was having post lunch nap before Assar. He woke up 20 mins before his routine and he had smile on his face with these words " Khuda ne ussay jalla k Raakh ker diya "

My father did not get anything. Young man went to market to buy Biscuits for Tea from Shop where he would usually go and He was asked did you watch news ? He said No what happened. He said Zia's Plane got crashed and He is no more.


Your Science, Videos, Microscope cannot explain this.

 

[cricketInsight]

Beautiful stuff as usual [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] !

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Beautiful stuff as usual [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] !

Thank you dear brother. Remember me in your prayers.

May Allah bless you and your loved ones. Aameen.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

a 50 year old marrying a girl whether 6 - 8 or 12 is not a great look for the religion either way. I think there should be a consensus with both Muslims and non Muslims that it is wrong and no one should be doing this. We should also accept that this was normal practice in the ancient world.

No one cares whether it was normal practice in the ancient world. The aim of the billboard was to get the message across that the Prophet was a padedophile and that was achieved. The internet is awash with thousands of such messages.

 

[DW44]

Let them be outraged. They get outraged at everything but the US isn't Pakistan where they'll lynch anyone whose opinion they don't like. You can only keep up a lie for so long. At some point someone will call you out on it and make you look like an idiot when you try to defend the indefensible.

 

[sshakir411]

I mean people are putting up Billboards against Trump too. While I agree that it's in bad taste there must be someone wealthy individual/group financing this because billboard cost is pretty high. And the longer it stays the more these guys will pay...tells you there's enough funding for Islamophobes

 

[TM Riddle]

No one cares whether it was normal practice in the ancient world. The aim of the billboard was to get the message across that the Prophet was a padedophile and that was achieved. The internet is awash with thousands of such messages.

This.
None of them care whether the marriage was consummated early on or not or whether Scotland had 13 years as permissible age for marriage in the olden times. The targeted audience here is common redneck with IQ level in single digits and who believes in earth as 5000 years old theory.
For him all 'Muzlims' are pedophiles and suicide bombers.Good luck trying to reason with those people.

 

[Black Zero]

" Our " biggest fight now is not with other religions or sects but with " Aethiest Brigades "


Yes Aethiesm the Fastest growing thing.


Thankfully our fight is peaceful and it doesn't harm anyone.


No matter how hard you try we will fight you till our last breath.


There are two British Doctors in their early Twenties named Tahir Nasser & Umar Nasser. There is a channel Rational Religion and there is a website too. Live debates with Aethiests are carried out while through videos opponents videos are answered too. Alhamdoulillah we have succeeded not only in silencing many but have brought many in the folds of Islam too.


You would love to go with Dr Israr Shah wrt Concubines as that suits you. While we ? We quote even non Muslim writers and scholars who have written books on Life of Mohammad Pbuh mentioning that any physical relation was established only after performing Nikah.


You would love to quote Ahadees of Ayesha RA being 6 or Concubines etc but than you won't bother about the fact that after how many centuries bukhari, Muslim were compiled and between this and He Pbuh death how many generations had passed. Any hadith which contradicts Quranic injunction or principle will be binned.


You Aethiests love to penpicture as if Women or young girls was Naoozbillah jeena merna, day night of my Master Pbuh. Yet you can't open your eyes to Hadith where a Lady who had Nikah with He Pbuh said " Mein Aap se Allah ki Panah maangti hun " and He Pbuh did not even say why ? Did not try to convince her or justify anything and instead fulfilled her will there and than.


Is this how concubine/slave thirsty men act ? Haan ?


When one night it was Ayesha RA's turn He Pbuh left his bed midnight. She did not like it and thought He had gone to other home when it was her night and followed her. She found him pbuh in a graveyard crying and prayinh for people like you and me. This was Mohammad Pbuh.


Whatever Zaeef Ahadees suits you and Jaahil Israr Shah you people hug them tightly and say Oh its 100 % true. While wherever the true picture of He Pbuh is painted you people say Oh it's all buildup and stories.


Those you possess under your right hands does not mean that you can have physical relations with them without Marriage Pact. Make it clear. They were under right hand because they were capfured during wars. This was a culture of the time. At those times there were no jails to jail them. So they were distributed and option was to either release them or release them for money or marry them. That's it.

All this was done for deterrence. To discourage opponents women and children from fighting in wars. Already they were in huge numbers.



This is Ramadan. Come back to prayers just for 2 weeks and daily do Istakhara prayers and offer tahajjud. Cry in Sajdaaz of Salaat that Oh Creator if there is any Creator any God than show me light. God willing If you work hard with best Intention than InshaAllah on any of the Taaq nights you will be Blessed with Lailatul Qadarr and will see light of a Living God who shows himself to those who try to find him.


I am requesting you since you aren't someone who was never practicing muslim or never bothered reading Islam. Rather you have studied and practiced quite abit and than drifted away.


Meray kehne pe aik aakhri mujaheda ker k dekhein. Agar Allah ne Kashaffi nizaray ya roya se mutmaein ker diya tou fine. Nai tou jahan hein jesay hein waheen raheeay ga.


Aap yaqeenun aik kamyaab insaan houn ge. Jahan dunya ki kamyaabi k liye itni taggo dou kee hai wahan Khuda ko paanay k liye bhee thora mujahedaa ker lein. Agar hai tou aapko bta dey ga k wo hai. Thori koshish tou kero.


Choarho Mullah ko. Khuda Aaj bhee bolta hai. Aap Walli bunnay ki koshish tou kero.


You won't believe. We did not have Tv. My grandfather was having post lunch nap before Assar. He woke up 20 mins before his routine and he had smile on his face with these words " Khuda ne ussay jalla k Raakh ker diya "

My father did not get anything. Young man went to market to buy Biscuits for Tea from Shop where he would usually go and He was asked did you watch news ? He said No what happened. He said Zia's Plane got crashed and He is no more.


Your Science, Videos, Microscope cannot explain this.

I assume that you tried to respond to my post.
However I am wondering about the connection.

 

[Black Zero]

I mean people are putting up Billboards against Trump too. While I agree that it's in bad taste there must be someone wealthy individual/group financing this because billboard cost is pretty high. And the longer it stays the more these guys will pay...tells you there's enough funding for Islamophobes

or maybe just someone is outraged about the actions of "the perfect man" but instead of acting violently, just rented a billboard.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This.
None of them care whether the marriage was consummated early on or not or whether Scotland had 13 years as permissible age for marriage in the olden times. The targeted audience here is common redneck with IQ level in single digits and who believes in earth as 5000 years old theory.
For him all 'Muzlims' are pedophiles and suicide bombers.Good luck trying to reason with those people.

I see absolutely no point in expressing rage or reaction to it, it's just playing the victim card to a population which has no interest or sympathy with any protests.

I just hope that no one gets targeted on account for this provocation and we end up with Charlie Hebdo like executions in response. Hopefully with USA being less reachable than Paris for the fanatics that will be out of the question.

 

[sshakir411]

or maybe just someone is outraged about the actions of "the perfect man" but instead of acting violently, just rented a billboard.

they are free to be outraged at what they like...I'm just saying the usual cost in the US to put up a billboard is quite high...somewhere around $10k a week or something (possibly more). If someone puts up a billboard it usually means they're spending a lot of $$$.

 

[Badsha]

Why would you reject Sahih Hadith?

Why should I accept Sahih Hadith?

 

[Black Zero]

they are free to be outraged at what they like...I'm just saying the usual cost in the US to put up a billboard is quite high...somewhere around $10k a week or something (possibly more). If someone puts up a billboard it usually means they're spending a lot of $$$.

I understand and agree with the related cost.
However I meant there could be numerous legit motives behind this move.
calling it "Islamophobes" is just not fair.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ulema should unite on this point and destroy or edit all the literature from where opponents pick this stuff and mock Prophet Pbuh and mother of believers RA.


Some defend it by saying that She was wed at 6 but she renained with her parents until 10-11 when she became adult. Other's would try to justify that she became adult much earlier than usual etc etc.


We must edit or delete this. For me none of these is facts.


May Allah give hidayat to the Opponents aswell. This is like Crossing Red Line but I am afraid Aethiest don't bother about religious emotions of others.

What is the truth in this matter?

 

[Justcrazy]

Ulema should unite on this point and destroy or edit all the literature from where opponents pick this stuff and mock Prophet Pbuh and mother of believers RA.


Some defend it by saying that She was wed at 6 but she renained with her parents until 10-11 when she became adult. Other's would try to justify that she became adult much earlier than usual etc etc.


We must edit or delete this. For me none of these is facts.


May Allah give hidayat to the Opponents aswell. This is like Crossing Red Line but I am afraid Aethiest don't bother about religious emotions of others.

To please disbelievers , we will delete authentic hadeeth ?

Islam has come to rule , not to compromise. None of the prophets compromised at any stage .

And you think they will stop at this ? They will not be happy until you agree with all that they say.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

To please disbelievers , we will delete authentic hadeeth ?

Islam has come to rule , not to compromise. None of the prophets compromised at any stage .

And you think they will stop at this ? They will not be happy until you agree with all that they say.

All Sahi hadith which are not in line with Quranic principles are trash and need to be binned rather than be defended.

I have a Shia friend who quotes Bukhari ahadees wrt " Mubasheratt "

That is totally against Quranic categorical order on physical relations.

So you want me to defend anti Quran stuff ? Never ever.


Mohammad Pbuh will never go against Holy Quran orders. If thete are such ahadees (so called sayings of He Pbuh when they aren't) where they are in any Hadith books Shia or Sunni even Bukhari Muslim etc I will reject and bin them irrespective of Disbrlievers likeness or hate.


Same is the case of Ayesha RA being only 6 so called Hadith. Read Post number 9.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As Muslims we know this information is nonsense and hateful in nature.

The issue I have is the backward laws of America. Their constitution allows any type of speech but has no new amendment to stop inciting hatred.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

What is the truth in this matter?

Read Post number 9 if you have any disagreements that ask me.

 

[Heisenberg]

Here people are more concerned with their sentiments getting hurt while out their the reality consists of small girls getting married to some sick people and having their lives destroyed. I suppose that's not as important because you don't want to cross some imaginary line.

 

[Heisenberg]

I have answered you in post number 8.

I will reply when I have some time. Hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for the reply

 

[Heisenberg]

Why should I accept Sahih Hadith?

That's what Muslims have done for thousands of years.

 

[Heisenberg]

As Muslims we know this information is nonsense and hateful in nature.

The issue I have is the backward laws of America. Their constitution allows any type of speech but has no new amendment to stop inciting hatred.

Don't you think it's more fair than how it is in Muslim countries these days? You just need to blame someone of blasphemy to get rid of them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Don't you think it's more fair than how it is in Muslim countries these days? You just need to blame someone of blasphemy to get rid of them.

We have plenty of discussions on laws within Muslim countries. The countries and their laws are so varied ie..Turkey allows alcohol while Saudia Arabia has public executions.

I'd rather stick to the topic, you are free to start a new thread or bump an the hundreds of old threads dealing with this topic.

What is your view on my point? Should freedom of speech also allow freedom to incite hatred? Because there is no doubt this is the aim of this billboard .

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I will reply when I have some time. Hopefully tomorrow. Thanks for the reply

Thanks brother.

Please post in abbrogations thread aswell. I am waiting for you and couple of other posters. Than I will present my view

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

What is the truth in this matter?

To please disbelievers , we will delete authentic hadeeth ?

Islam has come to rule , not to compromise. None of the prophets compromised at any stage .

And you think they will stop at this ? They will not be happy until you agree with all that they say.

Correction. Post 8 not post 9.

 

[Black Zero]

This.
None of them care whether the marriage was consummated early on or not or whether Scotland had 13 years as permissible age for marriage in the olden times. The targeted audience here is common redneck with IQ level in single digits and who believes in earth as 5000 years old theory.
For him all 'Muzlims' are pedophiles and suicide bombers.Good luck trying to reason with those people.

If Scotland had 13 years age condition for marriage in olden age, then Scotland has now fixed this problem, and also they do not consider olden people as their ideal.

Or call them perfect people.
Or example for the mankind
Etc etc.

 

[Black Zero]

All Sahi hadith which are not in line with Quranic principles are trash and need to be binned rather than be defended.

I have a Shia friend who quotes Bukhari ahadees wrt " Mubasheratt "

That is totally against Quranic categorical order on physical relations.

So you want me to defend anti Quran stuff ? Never ever.


Mohammad Pbuh will never go against Holy Quran orders. If thete are such ahadees (so called sayings of He Pbuh when they aren't) where they are in any Hadith books Shia or Sunni even Bukhari Muslim etc I will reject and bin them irrespective of Disbrlievers likeness or hate.


Same is the case of Ayesha RA being only 6 so called Hadith. Read Post number 9.

Authentic and sahih in some cases can be two different things technically.

One cannot just throw authentic data in to bin as then everything along with would also go.
(not that I am complaining)

 

[enkidu_]

They have been insulting the prophet (pbuh) since centuries because they still can't fathom how out of the desert of Arabia arose a spiritual empire which would last more than a thousand years, birthing a civilization in the process.

Keep in mind Christianity built a civilization only in the Middle Ages (before, the Roman Empire kept its own political ideology, while from the Renaissance onwards Europe got rid of a Christian civilization), so that's where the inferiority complex comes from : imagine if a post Islamic religion like Baha'ism in less that 200 years has millions of converts in Lahore, Tehran, Cairo, ... and Muslim scholars have to study in their universities to gain credibility. Even in being post Christian, the descendants of the Germanic barbaric tribes - French, English and German - haven't digested all of that. When French general went to the tomb of Saladin in Damascus, what did he say ? "We're back !", before kicking his tomb and reminded the deceased knight of the crusades, concluding by "the cross has triumphed over the crescent." Every recent geopolitical development in the Middle East follows the same pattern.

But look at how Allah swt humiliates them for insulting his last messenger : their oldest criticism was that Islam was a "sensual" religion (they also bashed Hinduism for the same reasons later on), because it allows divorce, polygamy, ... now in some countries they divorce more than they marry, and let's not even go into the extra marital affairs every self respecting "liberal" Western man has to entertain.

But as Jonathan A.C. Brown says in his Misquoting Muhammad, there never was the accusation of "paedophilia" : the very first to find "odd" (we're not even talking of paedophilia) the marriage was Margoliouth, at the beginning of the last century, while he also mentions biographies written by Westerners as late as the 70s/80s which mention the marriage without bringing "paedophilia".

Discard the gymnastics about ahadith criticism, discard the fact that paedophilia is a clinical terminology associated with certain traits (sexual predation for little children - many of them -), etc what you should do is to act more martial and virile instead of all passive, and show them what their own Bible contains. Make them vomit and swallow their own dejection.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

All Sahi hadith which are not in line with Quranic principles are trash and need to be binned rather than be defended.

I have a Shia friend who quotes Bukhari ahadees wrt " Mubasheratt "

That is totally against Quranic categorical order on physical relations.

So you want me to defend anti Quran stuff ? Never ever.


Mohammad Pbuh will never go against Holy Quran orders. If thete are such ahadees (so called sayings of He Pbuh when they aren't) where they are in any Hadith books Shia or Sunni even Bukhari Muslim etc I will reject and bin them irrespective of Disbrlievers likeness or hate.


Same is the case of Ayesha RA being only 6 so called Hadith. Read Post number 9.

Which is exactly why I find it difficult to trust references from "Sihah Sitta".

This is just one topic that is controversial in "Sihah Sitta".

There are many more so-called "Sahih" ahadees which baffle Muslims.

 

[Badsha]

That's what Muslims have done for thousands of years.

And? Just because muslims have done it I should too? I follow Islam not muslims

 

[Badsha]

All Sahi hadith which are not in line with Quranic principles are trash and need to be binned rather than be defended.

I have a Shia friend who quotes Bukhari ahadees wrt " Mubasheratt "

That is totally against Quranic categorical order on physical relations.

So you want me to defend anti Quran stuff ? Never ever.


Mohammad Pbuh will never go against Holy Quran orders. If thete are such ahadees (so called sayings of He Pbuh when they aren't) where they are in any Hadith books Shia or Sunni even Bukhari Muslim etc I will reject and bin them irrespective of Disbrlievers likeness or hate.


Same is the case of Ayesha RA being only 6 so called Hadith. Read Post number 9.

This is my view as well. I don't get why people have included compilations by Bukhari/Sahi/Muslim as an integral part of Islam giving it almost the same status as the holy Quran. These books should only be used as guidelines to explain parts of the Quran that are in line with the hadith.

On the contrary, muslims literally make new laws and practices based on these Hadith alone.

 

[Heisenberg]

And? Just because muslims have done it I should too? I follow Islam not muslims

That's good for you brother. No offence meant. I live in Pakistan and when I was struggling with religion, I asked a few people and they were always adamant about Hadith. Thing is that it's mainstream and that's how it will always be argued.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

This is my view as well. I don't get why people have included compilations by Bukhari/Sahi/Muslim as an integral part of Islam giving it almost the same status as the holy Quran. These books should only be used as guidelines to explain parts of the Quran that are in line with the hadith.

On the contrary, muslims literally make new laws and practices based on these Hadith alone.

Still for me Sahi Muslim & Sahi Bukhari are the most Authentic Ahadith books for me.

But Hadith = Quranic verse

One must not forget that in some Ahadith there are atleast 5-6 narration chains so the message passed by has a chance of not being 100 % true or even totally false.

These books were compiled not decades nut 100's of years after He Pbuh sad demise.


So if a Hadith is in line with Quran fine accepted if not than it has to be ignored.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Which is exactly why I find it difficult to trust references from "Sihah Sitta".

This is just one topic that is controversial in "Sihah Sitta".

There are many more so-called "Sahih" ahadees which baffle Muslims.

No. This does not mean that you reject all Sihah e Satta Ahadees calling it trash. That would be meritless and intellectual dishonesty.


We do not agree with countless 4 authentic Shia Ahadith compilations. But this does not mean that we call all of them as trash or not original words of He Pbuh. We will always call those in line with Quranic injunctions as True even if they are part of Shia compilations. You cannot be biased just because you were born in a certain Sect.


If there are Shia or Sunni who want to believe that He Pbuh married Ayesha RA at age 6 than brothers go ahead and it's good that you are in agreement with Islamophobes. Your life your choices but I am not willing to accept such Ahadith and that is my life my argument my choice.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Authentic and sahih in some cases can be two different things technically.

One cannot just throw authentic data in to bin as then everything along with would also go.
(not that I am complaining)

You know whom I follow very well.


When you believe in someone who is Divinely appointed as indicated in 7:35 and as testified by completion of Lunar & Solar Eclipse Ramadan Prophecy than you do not have the option of " Choon Charaan " and accept the Fatwaz of the Divinely appointed person.


Otherwise if you disagree and you are adamant to say No No 6years old Hadith is 100 % Authentic and true than you have an option to disown the Claimant, call him a Liar and jump the ship. It's all convenient.


Whether its Ayesha RA being 6, having physical relations with concubines without Nikah, giving death punishments to Apostates, Blasphemers, having dozens of wives etc etc you as a former Muslim will keep on beating the Drum as it suits you and gives you great comfort.


If I believe with this to be True than I won't waste a moment to leave my faith and become an Aethiest. Heck these people even don't kill in Pakistan such is there faith.


I know what Sahi means. I know that quite a lot of Sahi Ahadith are Authentic as they are in line with Quran so no point in rejecting but

If a Sahi hadith states that in certain days Mubasheratt is allowed and was practiced by Divinely appointed Pbuh than it does not require me to first get married and than make up my mind about it. Rather I will reject this as an Un-Authentic false narration as Holy Quran says something tofally opposite.


And if Naoozbillah He Pbuh words & actions had conflict. If Naoozbillah he did things opposite in life to what Quran said than keep your books with you I won't follow either Islam or any religion.



Post number 8 is infront of you, iska toarh nikaalo aor yahan post ker dou. Educate thousands of readers on PP.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

They have been insulting the prophet (pbuh) since centuries because they still can't fathom how out of the desert of Arabia arose a spiritual empire which would last more than a thousand years, birthing a civilization in the process.

Keep in mind Christianity built a civilization only in the Middle Ages (before, the Roman Empire kept its own political ideology, while from the Renaissance onwards Europe got rid of a Christian civilization), so that's where the inferiority complex comes from : imagine if a post Islamic religion like Baha'ism in less that 200 years has millions of converts in Lahore, Tehran, Cairo, ... and Muslim scholars have to study in their universities to gain credibility. Even in being post Christian, the descendants of the Germanic barbaric tribes - French, English and German - haven't digested all of that. When French general went to the tomb of Saladin in Damascus, what did he say ? "We're back !", before kicking his tomb and reminded the deceased knight of the crusades, concluding by "the cross has triumphed over the crescent." Every recent geopolitical development in the Middle East follows the same pattern.

But look at how Allah swt humiliates them for insulting his last messenger : their oldest criticism was that Islam was a "sensual" religion (they also bashed Hinduism for the same reasons later on), because it allows divorce, polygamy, ... now in some countries they divorce more than they marry, and let's not even go into the extra marital affairs every self respecting "liberal" Western man has to entertain.

But as Jonathan A.C. Brown says in his Misquoting Muhammad, there never was the accusation of "paedophilia" : the very first to find "odd" (we're not even talking of paedophilia) the marriage was Margoliouth, at the beginning of the last century, while he also mentions biographies written by Westerners as late as the 70s/80s which mention the marriage without bringing "paedophilia".

Discard the gymnastics about ahadith criticism, discard the fact that paedophilia is a clinical terminology associated with certain traits (sexual predation for little children - many of them -), etc what you should do is to act more martial and virile instead of all passive, and show them what their own Bible contains. Make them vomit and swallow their own dejection.

It's quite simple actually.


There came no Prophet who wasn't mocked, ridiculed and abused. This included Muhammad Pbuh, Jesus Pbuh & Moses Pbuh. Nothing new. All routine.



Whether they make Cartoons or Films Mohammad Pbuh status would not be affected one bit.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

No. This does not mean that you reject all Sihah e Satta Ahadees calling it trash. That would be meritless and intellectual dishonesty.


We do not agree with countless 4 authentic Shia Ahadith compilations. But this does not mean that we call all of them as trash or not original words of He Pbuh. We will always call those in line with Quranic injunctions as True even if they are part of Shia compilations. You cannot be biased just because you were born in a certain Sect.


If there are Shia or Sunni who want to believe that He Pbuh married Ayesha RA at age 6 than brothers go ahead and it's good that you are in agreement with Islamophobes. Your life your choices but I am not willing to accept such Ahadith and that is my life my argument my choice.

It's not bias.

Some "sahih" ahadees do contadict the Quran like you've said numerous times. This fact alone hugely reduces the credibility of the compilation.

How will you check the credibility of an event mentioned in the same compliation if its not in the Quran?
Will you go back in time?
Or will you trust the same compilation which contains ahadees contradicting Quran?

This is the point I'm trying to make

Oh and btw you or someone else not "agreeing" with any Shia compilations doesn't matter. As long as it doesn't contradict the Quran and is narrated by reliable and trustworthy sources then that is enough for me.

Again, its not about sects or bias.

I've lived in Saudi Arabia for 15 years. I know you guys inside out

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

It's not bias.

Some "sahih" ahadees do contadict the Quran like you've said numerous times. This fact alone hugely reduces the credibility of the compilation.

How will you check the credibility of an event mentioned in the same compliation if its not in the Quran?
Will you go back in time?
Or will you trust the same compilation which contains ahadees contradicting Quran?

This is the point I'm trying to make

Oh and btw you or someone else not "agreeing" with any Shia compilations doesn't matter. As long as it doesn't contradict the Quran and is narrated by reliable and trustworthy sources then that is enough for me.

Again, its not about sects or bias.

I've lived in Saudi Arabia for 15 years. I know you guys inside out

Hehehehehehe.


U know me ? Heck my faith followers will be killed straightaway by Saudi Authorities.


Sweet youngsta you will learn with Age.


And don't just take digs at Siha e Satta.


If your sources are more authentic than millions you hate would have jumped ths ship to become Shia thinking believing OH there Ahadees are real ones so are their practices.


Do you even know that what we consider as Adultery from Siha e Satta ? For which we recommend Koarhay ? AND call it Zanna ? Illegitimate physical relations ?


And what our sources say ? And Naoozbillah associate He Pbuh and his followers with that dirt too ?


You are acting as if only Saha e Satta are being criticised. As if No Muslim non muslim has any disagreenent with what is written in 4 books considered authentic ahadith books by Shia Muslims.


That is why I said Indivisial Bias.


Get out of your Ballon and accept this hardcore fact that All Ahadith (whether Sunni or Shia complilations) are not in line with Quran and are not verses of Holy Quran and thise having contradictions can be should be rejected.


STRAIGHT FORWARD.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

hehehehehehe.


u know me ? Heck my faith followers will be killed straightaway by saudi authorities.


i said "you guys" so, i'm not talking specifically about ahmedis but majority of muslims (sunni, wahhabi etc) and you do trust and share sunni sources so i included you in those ppl as well.


if your sources are more authentic than millions you hate would have jumped ths ship to become shia thinking believing oh there ahadees are real ones so are their practices.


that's quite arrogant to say the least. If you think of it that way then you can also rephrase it and say:

"if islam was authentic and the one true religion then millions of enemies of islam would have jumped ths ship to become muslims thinking believing oh their holy books are real ones so are their practices."

do these sentences make any sense now? No, right? I expected a much more mature answer from you instead of this silly counter-point.

do you even know that what we consider as adultery from siha e satta ? For which we recommend koarhay ? And call it zanna ? Illegitimate physical relations ?


And what our sources say ? And naoozbillah associate he pbuh and his followers with that dirt too ?

i literally have no idea what you're saying in these phrases.


you are acting as if only saha e satta are being criticised. As if no muslim non muslim has any disagreenent with what is written in 4 books considered authentic ahadith books by shia muslims.

lagta hai zyada mirchain lag gayin

silly point again.

If you think in this way then even the quran gets criticsed by muslims/non-muslims alike. Does that mean that its incorrect naoozobillah?

Try to answer my question instead of these type of counter points. Try making a constructive argument instead of being hell-bent on disapproving shia sources.


that is why i said indivisial bias.


Get out of your ballon and accept this hardcore fact that all ahadith (whether sunni or shia complilations) are not in line with quran and are not verses of holy quran and thise having contradictions can be should be rejected.


in case you didn't know, shia rely heavily on quran and its tafsir and don't give ahadees the kind of status that you guys (anyone who follows sihah sitta) give to your hadees books.

For you quranic verse=ahadees

for us quranic verses>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ahadees

since there is no divine promise of hadees being protected from alterations

we rely on ahadees only when we're reasonably sure of their reliability

straight forward.

gun barrel straight forward

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Should freedom of speech also allow freedom to incite hatred? Because there is no doubt this is the aim of this billboard .

The USA laws on free speech and inciting hatred are different to the UK. I'm not sure where the line is drawn exactly but might be worth an inquiry just for comparison sake.

 

[James]

Depicting religious figures on billboards, particularly in a derogatory manner, is just arrogant and rude. Yes there probably exists the legal 'right' to do this, but there is also common courtesy to bear in mind.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The USA laws on free speech and inciting hatred are different to the UK. I'm not sure where the line is drawn exactly but might be worth an inquiry just for comparison sake.

I dont think there is because the KKK wouldn't be allowed to hold public protests.

Must be an advanced version of the 'civilised world' which we in the UK have yet to cotton on to.

 

[Heisenberg]

Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage

Did Muhammad marry A’isha when she was only six years old?


Contemporary critics have repeatedly claimed that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was not of age. Facts indicate that A’isha was no younger than 12-13 at the time of her willing marriage with parental consent. We invite the reader to consider several factors before formulating a final opinion.


Before we delve into Islamic history, consider that the age deemed “acceptable” for marriage is not an objective standard across time, culture, and religion—but a subjective standard based on social construct. For example, the Catholic Encyclopaedia reports regarding Mary, mother of Jesus:


… the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice of God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.[1]


Likewise, the Talmud states, “Marrying off one’s daughter as soon after she reaches adulthood as possible, even to one’s Slave.”[2] In fact, the Talmud presents some shocking guidance on marriage, also stating, “A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his.”[3] So while the Catholic Encyclopaedia tells us that Mary and Joseph were married at the ages of 12-14 and 90, respectively, the Talmud permits marrying girls as young as three years and one day. Lest this seem like an attack on Christianity and Judaism—which it is not—we present marriage laws in the West.


For centuries in Scotland, the age of consent for girls was 12—and parental consent was unnecessary.[4] Only in 1929 was the age raised to 16 for girls.[5] But in America even today, A’isha’s consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad would be considered valid. For example, in New Hampshire, the legal age for girls is 13 with parental consent.[6] In Massachusetts, the legal age for girls is 12 with parental consent.[7] In Mississippi, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[8] In California, there is no age minimum for girls, as long as there is parental consent.[9]


Granted, the American state laws were passed in the 19th and 20th centuries—not today. And granted, American’s aged 12 or 13 do not typically get married today. The point still stands, however, that even in recent American history, American’s found value—not objection—in marrying at 12 or 13, or even younger, and passed laws through their state legislatures to affirm their value. This exercise in no way argues for a return to such marrying ages. Rather, it merely establishes the point that “appropriate” marriage age is based on social construct—not some supposed objective, advanced contemporary standard. Therefore, if we are to accuse Prophet Muhammad of any impropriety in marrying A’isha even if she was 12-13, then we must also condemn the Old Testament, New Testament, the Europe, and numerous American states.


Above discussion demonstrates that A’iha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad, even if she was 12 or 13, was not by any means unusual when compared across time and culture—even to contemporary standards.

It should not/does not matter what happened within other cultures/time because Islam is supposed to be eternal. A child marrying an adult was not okay then and is not okay today. Let's be clear on that.

In determining authenticity of the related tradition (Hadith), it is necessary to consider how many different narrators can relate a Hadith back to the original source—be that source Prophet Muhammad, A’isha, or a companion. The more narrators exist and the more in agreement they are with one another—the more authentic we may consider the Hadith.


Virtually every narration that relates A’isha’s age at six is tied to Hisham ibn ‘Urwah, who then reports on his father’s authority. This is problematic for several reasons.

That's not true though is it? I'll give you one narrated by A'isha herself:

Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133

I like how it says virtually, though. When the narrator is the person who the topic is about, that you would think, would be the end of the matter. There are other narrators too. Here's a more comprehensive answer by a popular Islamic website - https://islamqa.info/en/124483

First, Hisham ibn ‘Urwah is the only person to narrate this Hadith. This is problematic because now, no opportunity exists for corroboration. Next, Hisham related this Hadith in his old age—a time during which he admits he suffered severe memory loss. For example, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, a premier book on the credibility of Hadith narrators cites Ya‘qub ibn Shaibah to report, “Narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq.”[10] Likewise, “Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq.”[11] History records that Hisham emigrated to Iraq in his old age and suffered severe memory loss, after living in Medina for the first 71 years of his life.[12] More specifically, Yaqub ibn Shaibah relates, “He [that is, Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after shifting to Iraq.”[13]


The Hadith that relate A’isha’s age at six are from Hisham ibn ‘Urwah after he immigrated to Iraq. Thus, such Hadith are not only isolated in their claim, but also unreliable due to his old age and extensive memory loss. Most critics wholly disregard these substantive inconsistencies.

Unfortunately, the bolded part is false.

On the contrary, several historical events and Ahadith narrations demonstrate that Hadhrat Ayesha was likely 15-16, or as old as 19-20 at the time of her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad. For example, Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad took place one year after Hijrah (emigration to Medina), or around 624 A.D. She was the daughter of Hadhrat Abu Bakr. Tabari reports, “All four of [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives—the names of whom we have already mentioned—during the pre-Islamic period [i.e. pre-610 A.D.].”[14] Therefore, even if Hadhrat Ayesha were born in 609 A.D., only a year before Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood, she would be roughly 14 at the time of emigration to Medina in 623, and therefore no less than 15 at the time of her marriage to Prophet Muhammad. Both are a far cry from the age of six that Wilders’ asserts.


Likewise, most historians report that Hadhrat Asmara, Hadhrat Ayesha’s elder sister, was ten years her senior.[15] The books, “Tahzibut Tahzib” and “Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nihayah,” both report that Hadhrat Asma died at the age of 100, in 73 A.H. or 695 A.D.[16] This means that Hadhrat Asmara must have been no younger than 27 at the time of emigration. Hadhrat Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad was in 1 A.H. when Asma was 28. This means that at a minimum, Hadhrat Ayesha was 18 upon her consenting marriage to Prophet Muhammad.


The above examples are not exhaustive. Several other authentic Hadith and well-recorded events discredit allegations that Prophet Muhammad married A’isha when she was six. The examples we have presented, however, should more than suffice that A’isha was not six, but instead, that she was a mature adult who married Prophet Muhammad of her own free will.



[1] The Catholic Encyclopedia: An International Reference of Work on the Constitution, Doctrine, Dicipline, and History of the Catholic Church, New York Robert Appleton Company, Vol. VIII, Pg. 505.
[2] Talmud, Pesachim 113a.
[3] Talmud, Sanhedrin 55b.
[4] G T Bisset-Smith. 1st edition. Edinburgh: William Green & Sons, (1902).
[5] Id.
[6] New Hampshire Title 53, Chapter 457, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[7] Massachusetts Title III, Chapter 207, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[8] Mississippi Title 93, Chapter 1, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[9] California Family Code §§ 300-500, available at http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage#g.
[10] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[11] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib Vol. 11, pg. 48 – 51.
[12] Mizan al-I‘tidal, Vol. 4, pg. 301 – 302.
[13] Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalani, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Islami, Vol. 11, pg. 50).
[14] Tarikh al-umam wal-mamloo’k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, pg. 50 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr, Beirut, 1979).
[15] Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Az-Zahabi, Vol. 2, pg. 289 (Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risala’h, Beirut, 1992).
[16] Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933 and and Al-Bidaayah wa an-Nan-Nihaayah, Ibn-e-KathirIbn-e-KathirIbn-e-Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 371 (Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933).



http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?m...ad-sa-married-ayesha-ra-when-she-was-underage



This is how you defend false allegations. You have social media to educate people with this link.



[MENTION=2551]ahmedzee[/MENTION] [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

The part about Tabari reporting is badly translated. I could go in more detail if you want but basically Tabari has mentioned A'isha's age several times. An example: The Messenger of God saw 'A'ishah twice-[first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated his marriage with her after coming to Medina when she was nine years old.

Source is volume 9

The other sources used to come up with a different age are weak. Most of it is mentioned and explained in that link.

My point is not here to hurt anyone's sentiments. It is to show that there is enough evidence to suggest that 9 was the correct age of consummation. Knowing that Islam is supposed to be eternal and the Prophet the perfect example to follow, people use this today for their sick desires and destroy young lives. That exists and the only thing I care about, I have no problem in you thinking that it's incorrect - the reality is that people disagree and there are many.

The other day, my mother was listening to Yasir Qadhi. I have him heard speak on this topic and he said something like girls matured way earlier then and so it's all okay. What you said about editing and deleting this from the books, I'm with you there. Let's save some lives and forget the arguments.

 

[troodon]

Hehehehehehe.


U know me ? Heck my faith followers will be killed straightaway by Saudi Authorities.


Sweet youngsta you will learn with Age.


And don't just take digs at Siha e Satta.


If your sources are more authentic than millions you hate would have jumped ths ship to become Shia thinking believing OH there Ahadees are real ones so are their practices.


Do you even know that what we consider as Adultery from Siha e Satta ? For which we recommend Koarhay ? AND call it Zanna ? Illegitimate physical relations ?


And what our sources say ? And Naoozbillah associate He Pbuh and his followers with that dirt too ?


You are acting as if only Saha e Satta are being criticised. As if No Muslim non muslim has any disagreenent with what is written in 4 books considered authentic ahadith books by Shia Muslims.


That is why I said Indivisial Bias.


Get out of your Ballon and accept this hardcore fact that All Ahadith (whether Sunni or Shia complilations) are not in line with Quran and are not verses of Holy Quran and thise having contradictions can be should be rejected.


STRAIGHT FORWARD.

Who wrote Hadiths?

If I understand it, Hadiths are the recorded versions of how Prophet Muhamed lived and his actions right?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Who wrote Hadiths?

If I understand it, Hadiths are the recorded versions of how Prophet Muhamed lived and his actions right?

They are mainly sayings of He Pbuh. They were compiled by Imam's.

Some even after 200-300 years after He Pbuh demise.

 

[troodon]

They are mainly sayings of He Pbuh. They were compiled by Imam's.

Some even after 200-300 years after He Pbuh demise.

How do these Imams who compiled the Hadiths know the ages of his wives and when he consummated his marriage? This sounds all creepy.

 

[shaz619]

I don't know why skum would attack a high profile religious figure which is beloved to millions and millions then turn around and demonize those who have a problem with them belittling a prophet [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] will people find it acceptable if I wiped my bum with a cow picture? or just made ridiculous claims because you know, gotta feud with Muslims because it makes me look better then I am or to appease the bigot vote

 

[CricketCartoons]

The best response to such things is no response.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

It should not/does not matter what happened within other cultures/time because Islam is supposed to be eternal. A child marrying an adult was not okay then and is not okay today. Let's be clear on that.



That's not true though is it? I'll give you one narrated by A'isha herself:

Narrated `Aisha:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 5133

I like how it says virtually, though. When the narrator is the person who the topic is about, that you would think, would be the end of the matter. There are other narrators too. Here's a more comprehensive answer by a popular Islamic website - https://islamqa.info/en/124483




Unfortunately, the bolded part is false.



The part about Tabari reporting is badly translated. I could go in more detail if you want but basically Tabari has mentioned A'isha's age several times. An example: The Messenger of God saw 'A'ishah twice-[first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated his marriage with her after coming to Medina when she was nine years old.

Source is volume 9

The other sources used to come up with a different age are weak. Most of it is mentioned and explained in that link.

My point is not here to hurt anyone's sentiments. It is to show that there is enough evidence to suggest that 9 was the correct age of consummation. Knowing that Islam is supposed to be eternal and the Prophet the perfect example to follow, people use this today for their sick desires and destroy young lives. That exists and the only thing I care about, I have no problem in you thinking that it's incorrect - the reality is that people disagree and there are many.

The other day, my mother was listening to Yasir Qadhi. I have him heard speak on this topic and he said something like girls matured way earlier then and so it's all okay. What you said about editing and deleting this from the books, I'm with you there. Let's save some lives and forget the arguments.

Google Imam Bukhari Rehmatullah.


When was He born ? When did he compile Bukhari ?

Have some perspective.


Imam Bukhari RT was born 132 years after the Death of Hazrat Ayesha RA and you are assuming as if Ayesha RA told this to Imam Bukhari and he noted it down. There will be atlesst 4 generations between them.



Secondly who knows that after Bukhari was compiled how and when it got adulterated ? Do you have have any Bukhari in World atm which has been tested by radiocarbon testing and is proven to be 1300 years old manuscript ? ?


Furthermore We have Bukhari versions punlished in early 19th century and Hadith scholars. Those mention Messiah of Later age personality physique complexion height hair texture to be totally different to Jesus Christ AS. Now what did the Islamic Scholars do ? They edited the online versions of Bukhari and copy pasted Jesus AS physical attributes with Messiah of Later age.


Does this mean that 300-400 years old Manuscipts present in Ancient Muslim world libraries should be thrown ? Online versions are original ?


Yasir Qadhi's argument is as good as Christians where they said that a girl is eligible for marriage at 3 yesrs 1 month age as she achieved puberty than. Does it make any sense ?


Is there any other evidence suggesting Companions of He Pbuh or Caliphs married 6 or 9 years old girls ?


I have no doubt at Imam Bukhari's intent and I regard him very highly but


1. I have no evidence that in first hand written Bukhari these 6 or 9 years old Narration was mentioned or it got added yesrs or centuries later ?


2. Why did you completely Ignore discussions regarding Hazrat Ayesha RA elder Sister RA and age calculation based on other narrations ?


3. If you think that marrying a 6 or 9 years old girl in any day and age is wrong than why do you believe He Pbuh did it and He Pbuh was right ? Or are you a borderline Agnostic or Athiest ?

If I think it's wrong which I do think than I am not at all willing to consider He Pbuh a good man and considering him a Prophet is even out of contention for me.


Mohammad Pbuh is the Best of the Best for Me and without Him Pbuh my life would be miserable so I won't want to breath. I have read " Life of Muhammad Pbuh " & " Muhammad The Seal of Prophets "


So whenever Islamophobes or Non believers would raise this question My Answer will be what I posted in Post 8 and if you use twitter or Facebook than you would see thousands of non believers saying Thanks at this response and accepting that they are convinced and they do not raise any questions on this subject saying there concerns have been adressed.


In my free time, I read many forums especially Islamic forums. My Shia muslim brothers post screenshots from Online Ahadith sources stating Person X mentions that I heard from UBWXYZ that He saw He Pbuh doing this in a Garden. Than on Facebook there are videos of Ex Muslims where they mention Ahadees which absolutely defame He Pbuh and are so so much blasphemous. If anybody believes those to be true than He will immediately leave Islam If He is honest.


So ?


If you have the audacity to defend that Ohhhhh its Bukhari or Sahi Muslim so whatever written is absolute fact, truth and is ahthentic than my friend Go ahead. No problem.


But for me ? No. Not at all and not at any Cost.



Who knows Hypocrites or Enemies entered these Ahadith ?


I think it's disgusting and unjust to even call thess narrations as Ahadith (sayings or practices of He Pbuh)



It's not just Saha e Satta. I am a young Man unmarried atm and I refrain from doing many things thinking they are unislamic as per Quran, Sunnat and sayings of He Pbuh but without naming the books there are some which refer some highly putrid actions to He Pbuh saying He did this and it's halaal allowed legit (So called Ahadith books)


If I follow them my worldly life will have lots of comfort joy entertainment. So what stops me ?


I reject them as false while others they follow them.



And don't get me started on Dajjal's donkey, Pig murderer, Churches Cross destroyer Blood Thirsty Mass murderer Messiah narrations.



Rationality & logic is very very important.



Once again I have no objection if you chose to believe on 6 or 9 years old narrations. That's your choice.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

How do these Imams who compiled the Hadiths know the ages of his wives and when he consummated his marriage? This sounds all creepy.

Chain of Narrations and Narrators.


Like I was told this by my grandfather who was told this by his father etc etc.


Yaar you don't know about Islamic History. Ideally this had to be done much earlier in the Life of Prophet Pbuh wives RA and companions RA lives but there was delay due to Conflicts Wars etc etc.

 

[troodon]

Chain of Narrations and Narrators.


Like I was told this by my grandfather who was told this by his father etc etc.


Yaar you don't know about Islamic History. Ideally this had to be done much earlier in the Life of Prophet Pbuh wives RA and companions RA lives but there was delay due to Conflicts Wars etc etc.

What I mean to say is, who was the first person who knew this? Who told him?

Why would anyone discuss their bedroom stuff with others? Sounds creepy tbh.

 

[Musakhel]

Sahee bukhari is 98-99% correct and sahee muslim slightly less, no book is 100% other than Kalamullah but seriously 1400 years of Isamic scholarship validates their Authenticity.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don't know why skum would attack a high profile religious figure which is beloved to millions and millions then turn around and demonize those who have a problem with them belittling a prophet [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] will people find it acceptable if I wiped my bum with a cow picture? or just made ridiculous claims because you know, gotta feud with Muslims because it makes me look better then I am or to appease the bigot vote

This is my issue. Hate speech only causes further hatred & animosity. How is this civilised I will never understand.

 

[Justcrazy]

All Sahi hadith which are not in line with Quranic principles are trash and need to be binned rather than be defended.

I have a Shia friend who quotes Bukhari ahadees wrt " Mubasheratt "

That is totally against Quranic categorical order on physical relations.

So you want me to defend anti Quran stuff ? Never ever.


Mohammad Pbuh will never go against Holy Quran orders. If thete are such ahadees (so called sayings of He Pbuh when they aren't) where they are in any Hadith books Shia or Sunni even Bukhari Muslim etc I will reject and bin them irrespective of Disbrlievers likeness or hate.


Same is the case of Ayesha RA being only 6 so called Hadith. Read Post number 9.

You will ? You have authority to do that ?

What is the problem with married being at the age and consumption at the age of 9 ?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

You will ? You have authority to do that ?

What is the problem with married being at the age and consumption at the age of 9 ?

Read my reply to Black Zero.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

^^

Also read Hakam o Adal Hadith of Bukhari Kitaab ul Ambiya and Masnad Ahmad and point out the disagreement or difference in opinion to me.

 

[Black Zero]

The best response to such things is no response.

Doesn't feel like a best response.
More like admission.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

The best response to such things is no response.

Agree better stay calm.

 

[Black Zero]

gun barrel straight forward

Couple of very nice responses.

 

[Black Zero]

You will ? You have authority to do that ?

What is the problem with married being at the age and consumption at the age of 9 ?

It will be a major problem for someone aiming to be the model for humankind.

 

[Black Zero]

You know whom I follow very well.


When you believe in someone who is Divinely appointed as indicated in 7:35 and as testified by completion of Lunar & Solar Eclipse Ramadan Prophecy than you do not have the option of " Choon Charaan " and accept the Fatwaz of the Divinely appointed person.


Otherwise if you disagree and you are adamant to say No No 6years old Hadith is 100 % Authentic and true than you have an option to disown the Claimant, call him a Liar and jump the ship. It's all convenient.


Whether its Ayesha RA being 6, having physical relations with concubines without Nikah, giving death punishments to Apostates, Blasphemers, having dozens of wives etc etc you as a former Muslim will keep on beating the Drum as it suits you and gives you great comfort.


If I believe with this to be True than I won't waste a moment to leave my faith and become an Aethiest. Heck these people even don't kill in Pakistan such is there faith.


I know what Sahi means. I know that quite a lot of Sahi Ahadith are Authentic as they are in line with Quran so no point in rejecting but

If a Sahi hadith states that in certain days Mubasheratt is allowed and was practiced by Divinely appointed Pbuh than it does not require me to first get married and than make up my mind about it. Rather I will reject this as an Un-Authentic false narration as Holy Quran says something tofally opposite.


And if Naoozbillah He Pbuh words & actions had conflict. If Naoozbillah he did things opposite in life to what Quran said than keep your books with you I won't follow either Islam or any religion.



Post number 8 is infront of you, iska toarh nikaalo aor yahan post ker dou. Educate thousands of readers on PP.

Tbh, you are over estimating yourself that you could become athiest in a moment.
Most of us (99.9%) would die on religion/sect on which they were born.

All this arguments/rebuttal are just for intellectual entertainment.

 

[Black Zero]

An Indianapolis billboard targets the Islamic prophet Muhammad without actually mentioning him by name and Muslims aren't happy about it.

The billboard lists six bullet points about Muhammad. They are as follows: Married a 6-year-old,” “Slave owner & dealer,” “rapist,” “Beheaded 600 Jews in one day,” “13 wives, 11 at one time” and “Tortured & killed unbelievers

Farial Khatri of the Islamic Society of North America told Fox 59, “I was a little disappointed when I saw that.”

He added that the message was “bigoted” without ever challenging the claims behind the ad. “We do support free speech, but we do realize this is also rooted in bigotry.”

The sign can be seen from the southbound lanes of I-465 near the Washington Street exit. The group or person paying for the billboard is unknown.

According to Fox 59, the Muslim Alliance of Indiana says it’s planning to raise money to put up its own billboard nearby to “spread a message of peace and kindness”.

Rima Shahid, the group's executive director, said that “no one should be exposed to such disgusting language no matter who they are talking about.” He also urged those responsible for the ad to have a “conservation” with them instead of hiding behind “anonymous”.

Yet again, however, the billboard's claims were not disputed.
https://www.therebel.media/must_see...king_the_myth_that_muhammad_was_a_perfect_man

 

[Adil_94]

this type of statement clearly is to antagonise Muslims and draw out a reaction. But any type of violent reaction would be exactly what they want then they can paint Muslims as people who don't accept the right to free speech that is enshrined in the U.S Constitution.

In the U.S Holocaust denial is allowed but in a lot of Europe its a criminal.offense.

Freedom of Speech laws are a lot more liberal.

A lot of this stuff they are getting from Sahih Bukhari and the Sirat ul Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq which has a lot of stuff in it that cast aspersions on the character of the Prophet in the way that most Muslims are taught about the way he was.

While i think this was done in poor taste and to get a reaction. Its their right protected under Law. And i prefer a society where religious figures can be mocked and satirised is better than one with blasphemy laws.

 

[TM Riddle]

Doesn't feel like a best response.
More like admission.

What do you suggest instead?

 

[Black Zero]

What do you suggest instead?

I think there are two honorable options available:

- Challenge the claims and prove them wrong and establish with other evidences that "the perfect man" is in fact a suitable title.

- If billboard's claims are historically correct, then it's a straight forward decision for an ethical person to make.

 

[IAJ]

And? Just because muslims have done it I should too? I follow Islam not muslims

So following Sahih Hadeeth has nothing to do with Islam,according to you?