'Muslims unfit to be US President; their faith inconsistent with American principles' : Ben Carson

[King Cobra]

Wasahington: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson said on Sunday that Muslims were unfit to be president of the United States, arguing their faith was inconsistent with American principles.

"I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that," Carson told NBC`s "Meet the Press."

The remarks by Carson, who is near the top of opinion polls for the crowded field of Republican candidates, followed a controversy that erupted when front-runner Donald Trump declined to challenge anti-Muslim comments made by a supporter on Friday.

Carson, a Christian who says he got the idea for his tax proposals from the Bible, said he thought a US president`s faith should be "consistent with the Constitution."

Asked if he thought Islam met this bar, the retired neurosurgeon said: "No, I do not."

America`s largest Muslim civil rights group condemned Carson for his statement, which it said should disqualify him from the presidential contest because the US Constitution forbids religious tests for holding public office.

Without question, there are complex differences between the practice of the Muslim faith and our Constitution, differences that are very real and very much in conflict with one another," spokesman Doug Watts said.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...sistent-with-american-principles_1800005.html

 

[DrSchultz]

Ben Carson knows nothing about our local liberals then. They are more American than Americans.

 

[Mamoon]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

 

[Deosai]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

how do you know if we're happy with our discriminatory laws? What if somebody condemns both, then what are you going to say?

 

[Mamoon]

how do you know if we're happy with our discriminatory laws? What if somebody condemns both, then what are you going to say?

Most people are. Look around you, but they will be equally happy to be criticize others.

The group that condemns is the minority one.

 

[Dman]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

Gold !!

When in minority , Muslims are the biggest proponents of Secularism but in Majority there is nothing better than Sharia.

 

[Fallen King]

Barack Obama proved Muslims are fit to rule U.S.A. But it is not matter of their degree of ability to rule. No Muslim should be appointed to rule over Christian-dominated nation just like no Christian should be appointed to rule over Muslim-dominated nation. It is best that way, and they will get leaders that understand them.

Most USA leaders to be fanatic, but USA as whole understand them. It is their people, their cultures.

The best gift for Muslims and Non-Muslims in Pakistan would be is to eradicate Blasphemy law 100% completely from the facets of Pakistan and Muslim world. It is biggest insult to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) just like spreading terror in the name of God is the biggest insult to God.

 

[enkidu_]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

Look up for Samuel ibn Naghrillah, a 11th century Andalusian rabbi/poet-philosopher who ended up grand vizir (basically PM) and also what we'd call today COAS.

The man in OP was generically talking about all Muslims, you can't reduce it to Pakistan's constitution.

 

[90MPH]

Gold !!

When in minority , Muslims are the biggest proponents of Secularism but in Majority there is nothing better than Sharia.

Lovely generalisation, didn't take long to throw up what you really felt.

Btw out of curiosity how did you end up with this conclusion, by talking to your fellow Muslims in your country or did some BJP local goon teach you this ?

 

[90MPH]

This Carlson guy is just pandering desperately for votes.

When Donald Trump was asked this same question on Sunday he at least tried to flip flop and dodge the question because he knows the damage he could have done just to Win a few right wing tea party voters.

Carlson seems out of his depth politically.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Gold !!

When in minority , Muslims are the biggest proponents of Secularism but in Majority there is nothing better than Sharia.

America is just as advanced as Pakistan

We can stop idolising them now as our saviours


As for Ben Carson I'm not surprised he's black tbh

 

[the Great Khan]

John Adams knew enough of Islam to discuss it.ii In fact, Adam, like many early Americans, from German immigrants to Pennsylvania to our founding fathers, owned copies of the Qur'an.iii Although it may surprise many contemporary Americans that the Puritans read outside the gospel and Franklin and Adams were well-versed in the diversity of the world's faiths, these were men who had a profound and insatiable intellectual curiosity and political genius in that they understood, collectively, that this knowledge was essential to the success of the early colonies as well as to the establishment of a sovereign and sustainable nation state. Unsurprisingly, given his reputation as a voracious reader and humanist, Jefferson was perhaps the most attuned to this necessity of learning about world religions and the social systems and governments that they created. Indeed, it is really through Jefferson, more than any other early American statesman, that we understand the early importance and impact of Islam upon the new republic.

those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God (Qur'an 5:72)."vii For Jefferson and other Deists, this core aspect of Islamic belief made Islam marginally more relatable than Christianity.

As legislative documents, there are similarities between the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, and the Qur'an. Some of the contents of the Constitution of Medina, particularly in the inclusion of the unification and protection of a people regardless of creed under the government, equal rights, and protection of religious groups, are articulated in both the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Did the contents of the Qur'an and perhaps even the Constitution of Medina influence Jefferson when he authored the two most important documents in American history?

We may never truly know what Jefferson thought about Islam, but what we do know is that the Qur'an served not simply as an exotic book occupying the shelves of Jefferson's Monticello or Adams's Peacefield; on the contrary, the founding fathers knew about Islam, and they thrust themselves into the necessity of knowing. If we excavate the volumes of documents authored by Jefferson and his contemporaries in the early days of the new republic, we find moments wherein Jefferson's Qur'an may well have even influenced the founding, shaping, and sustenance of a newly sovereign nation.

Carson needs to shut his mouth and read some books.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

we dont claim to be secular , there in lies the difference

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Soon we will see Pakistanis criticizing him but are personally happy with the fact that a non-muslim cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

Nope I'm absolutely fine with this. It means all the liberal Muslims and atheists Pakistani Americans who are always trumpeting about how well they are regarded in the US are getting a good kick in their pants from their American compatriots.

Go Bill Carson!

 

[The_KING]

I don't understand why these kind of things are classified as news.

 

[Syed1]

Will we let a Hindu/Christian be our PM or President?

Then why are we questioning other countries..

 

[Mamoon]

we dont claim to be secular , there in lies the difference

So it's okay to do wrong as long as you don't claim the contrary. If you say so.

 

[Mamoon]

Look up for Samuel ibn Naghrillah, a 11th century Andalusian rabbi/poet-philosopher who ended up grand vizir (basically PM) and also what we'd call today COAS.

The man in OP was generically talking about all Muslims, you can't reduce it to Pakistan's constitution.

What has the Moors got to do with our constitution. You don't want to reduce it that because you don't like it.

Personally I find it hypocritical to criticize U.S. for this when non-Muslims in our country are not good enough to rule.

 

[Mamoon]

Nope I'm absolutely fine with this. It means all the liberal Muslims and atheists Pakistani Americans who are always trumpeting about how well they are regarded in the US are getting a good kick in their pants from their American compatriots.

Go Bill Carson!

It doesn't matter to them though. They will still say that they are doing better than their British counterparts, and that more British Pakistanis move to the U.S. for career progression compared to U.S. Pakistanis moving to Britain.

 

[Slog]

Yes because US has Christian roots. Same reason why UK will not see a muslim PM.

But atleast Muslims are not barred from the top office by the constitution as in the case of non Muslims in Muslim countries

 

[PCP_1]

Wasahington: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson said on Sunday that Muslims were unfit to be president of the United States, arguing their faith was inconsistent with American principles......

Nobody cares about what somebody said in Wasahington.

 

[Slog]

Nope I'm absolutely fine with this. It means all the liberal Muslims and atheists Pakistani Americans who are always trumpeting about how well they are regarded in the US are getting a good kick in their pants from their American compatriots.

Go Bill Carson!

Pakistani Americans will be happy with their median household income of $75000 or so which is higher than the average of the country. They will also keep trumpeting how wel they are regarded due to their professional jobs and higher percentage of university graduates among them than the average of the country again.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

So it's okay to do wrong as long as you don't claim the contrary. If you say so.

its the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

whether its wrong or not depends on your political ideology but at least we aren't hiding behind faux secularism and lecturing others on liberty

 

[Deosai]

Nope I'm absolutely fine with this. It means all the liberal Muslims and atheists Pakistani Americans who are always trumpeting about how well they are regarded in the US are getting a good kick in their pants from their American compatriots.

Go Bill Carson!

What's funny is that Pakistani-Americans are solid Republican supporters. Most Pakistanis voted for Bush in 2000 and many Pakistani-American doctors are strongly opposed to Obamacare.

Only some young hippy type Pak-Americans support Obama.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So this Ben Carson guy has exposed the fake secularism of america.

 

[90MPH]

I am not sure why this is being compared to Pakistans dumb law.

Many countries in the 3rd world, even the more afulent ones have some stupid laws that are discriminatory.

Does the U.S. Have such law ?? No so let's just focus on what this idiot said then, which is idiotic even if it's unrealistic to see a Muslim president in the U.S., just like it was unlikely To see a black president being in power 50 years ago but it happened.

 

[enkidu_]

What has the Moors got to do with our constitution. You don't want to reduce it that because you don't like it.

Personally I find it hypocritical to criticize U.S. for this when non-Muslims in our country are not good enough to rule.

Carson was targeting generic Muslims, not Pakistanis, and the thing is that Islam as political configuration has transformed a Jew into the most influential man of some dynasty some 1000 years ago.

It's fun to act subversive and all that, but try to understand the point.

 

[Mamoon]

Carson was targeting generic Muslims, not Pakistanis, and the thing is that Islam as political configuration has transformed a Jew into the most influential man of some dynasty some 1000 years ago.

It's fun to act subversive and all that, but try to understand the point.

I doubt if I have the energy to explain simple matters, but I will oblige: I didn't say he is targeting Pakistanis, I didn't say anything about history of Muslims, all I said was that Pakistanis have no right to criticize him when we are okay with the fact that non-Muslims in Pakistan are not good enough to rule.

Your defensive rant is completely unrelated and irrelevant.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It doesn't matter to them though. They will still say that they are doing better than their British counterparts, and that more British Pakistanis move to the U.S. for career progression compared to U.S. Pakistanis moving to Britain.

Fine, in which case I fully support Ben Carson's stand. Long may the US remain opposed to the Pakistani Americans of the 21st century.

 

[kaayal]

Wow..I was a big fan of this guy. He is a Pediatric neurosurgeon working in John Hopkins. There is a film called "Gifted hands" about him staring Cuba gooding jr.

 

[90MPH]

I doubt if I have the energy to explain simple matters, but I will oblige: I didn't say he is targeting Pakistanis, I didn't say anything about history of Muslims, all I said was that Pakistanis have no right to criticize him when we are okay with the fact that non-Muslims in Pakistan are not good enough to rule.

Your defensive rant is completely unrelated and irrelevant.

Pakistanis have no right )

This is not an American law nor mainstream opinon but a rant from a desperate Repulblcan candidate.

You can keep screaming "but we are hypocrites" if it makes you sleep better as you never miss any opportunity to say this line but it will be criticised.

 

[sshakir411]

trying to gain publicity. the fact is Americans will not vote in another black president for at least 8 years.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistanis have no right )

This is not an American law nor mainstream opinon but a rant from a desperate Repulblcan candidate.

You can keep screaming "but we are hypocrites" if it makes you sleep better as you never miss any opportunity to say this line but it will be criticised.

Never claimed that it is a law, but my point is that we are not in a position to criticize it as long as we do not criticize our constitution that promotes them same ideology - 'non-muslims unfit to be Pakistan PM'.

Well of course that is hypocritical, what else will you call it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Never claimed that it is a law, but my point is that we are not in a position to criticize it as long as we do not criticize our constitution that promotes them same ideology - 'non-muslims unfit to be Pakistan PM'.

Well of course that is hypocritical, what else will you call it.

There was a quote shared by KB yesterday.

 

[Mamoon]

There was a quote shared by KB yesterday.

Yes, wanted to use it but not without his permission.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never claimed that it is a law, but my point is that we are not in a position to criticize it as long as we do not criticize our constitution that promotes them same ideology - 'non-muslims unfit to be Pakistan PM'.

Well of course that is hypocritical, what else will you call it.

Well you can't accuse me of hypocrisy since I fully endorse Carson's stand against Muslims and Pakistanis of America.

 

[Yossarian]

It doesn't matter to them though. They will still say that they are doing better than their British counterparts, and that more British Pakistanis move to the U.S. for career progression compared to U.S. Pakistanis moving to Britain.

But that's true for the citizens of virtually every country in the world. You say British Pakistani's moving to the U.S. for better career prospects. But the same could be said for British Indians, the English, the French, the Spanish ...... moving to the U.S.

Having said that, I must be unique in being a British citizen of Pakistani origin, who (legally, on an 'L : Intracompany Transferee' visa) moved with my family to the U.S., lived/worked there for some years, and then decided to move back to Britain (even though I could have stayed in the U.S., having lived/worked in the country for long enough to apply for permanent residency and eventually US citizenship).

 

[Mamoon]

But that's true for the citizens of virtually every country in the world. You say British Pakistani's moving to the U.S. for better career prospects. But the same could be said for British Indians, the English, the French, the Spanish ...... moving to the U.S.

Having said that, I must be unique in being a British citizen of Pakistani origin, who (legally, on an 'L : Intracompany Transferee' visa) moved with my family to the U.S., lived/worked there for some years, and then decided to move back to Britain (even though I could have stayed in the U.S., having lived/worked in the country for long enough to apply for permanent residency and eventually US citizenship).

I agree, but I said it in a different context - Cpt. Rishwat has long had a beef with the U.S. Pakistanis on this forum, and is using this thread to score points.

Generally speaking, the truth is that most people leaving their homeland see the U.S. as the final destination, and one way or the other look to sneak in.

 

[enkidu_]

I doubt if I have the energy to explain simple matters, but I will oblige: I didn't say he is targeting Pakistanis, I didn't say anything about history of Muslims, all I said was that Pakistanis have no right to criticize him when we are okay with the fact that non-Muslims in Pakistan are not good enough to rule.

Your defensive rant is completely unrelated and irrelevant.

You just played your usual self-loathing card in order to mobilize attention, mainly from the other side of the Wagah, that's not what I'm talking about ; I'm talking about the fact that - talking of relevance - OP didn't mention Pakistan, only one of the +50 Muslim-majority states, and that even if "all" Pakistanis are unanimous in stating that a non-Muslim can't become PM, it 1) doesn't change the fact that the US doesn't take Pakistan as constitutional role-model, but even bombs others for democracy and secularism, so you don't need a Pak perspective to criticize him, but an American one and 2) many PPers have roots in Pakistan but perhaps no citizenship nor do agree with that discriminating rule.

Following your "argumentation" would be the same as to say that Hindus of Pak can't talk of discrimination because they have been discriminating on caste-basis (notably against Dalits) for centuries, and I'm sure you can intellectually reach the moral boundaries of such arguments without too much effort.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree, but I said it in a different context - Cpt. Rishwat has long had a beef with the U.S. Pakistanis on this forum, and is using this thread to score points.

Generally speaking, the truth is that most people leaving their homeland see the U.S. as the final destination, and one way or the other look to sneak in.

Just showing your own bias here, the US Pakistanis have been scoring points against British Pakistanis for so long yet you have no issue with that. That is if you really believe there is any point scoring going on, my own belief is that everyone here discusses topics on their merits whether they are about Pakistanis, Indians, Saudis etc. I in turn reciprocate the delightful discourse in a spirit of common understanding.

 

[TSA321]

What's funny is that Pakistani-Americans are solid Republican supporters.

Apparently they were until the early 2000s. Since then most have switched to Democrats.

 

[Mamoon]

You just played your usual self-loathing card in order to mobilize attention, mainly from the other side of the Wagah, that's not what I'm talking about ; I'm talking about the fact that - talking of relevance - OP didn't mention Pakistan, only one of the +50 Muslim-majority states, and that even if "all" Pakistanis are unanimous in stating that a non-Muslim can't become PM, it 1) doesn't change the fact that the US doesn't take Pakistan as constitutional role-model, but even bombs others for democracy and secularism, so you don't need a Pak perspective to criticize him, but an American one and 2) many PPers have roots in Pakistan but perhaps no citizenship nor do agree with that discriminating rule.

Following your "argumentation" would be the same as to say that Hindus of Pak can't talk of discrimination because they have been discriminating on caste-basis (notably against Dalits) for centuries, and I'm sure you can intellectually reach the moral boundaries of such arguments without too much effort.

I don't know where are you are going with this. How is that a valid analogy? Hindus of India would be exhibiting hypocrisy if they criticize the quota system in Pakistan, given the caste system in India. Hindus of Pakistan are the minority so of course they can raise their voices against discrimination.

Your defense is worthy, it is not logical at any level because of your fixation with 1) Muslim history 2) that he didn't say anything about Pakistanis.

I never claim that he did, but how can we criticize his stance when we are okay with the following the same ideology in our country?

And what's with the apology for expat Pakistanis? Yes they often exhibit traits of double standards; they will cry shariah over the internet but for themselves and their families, they have concluded that living in a secular state is better.

For some reason you keep avoiding the core issue - Pakistanis should not have an issue with statements like 'Muslims unfit to be U.S. President' and 'it is not consistent with the constitution', because that is exactly what we believe in and what is happening in Pakistan.

If you criticize this, you are showing hypocrisy, that is all.

Bringing history of Moorish Spain and how the U.S. doesn't Pakistan as its constitutional role-model (thus it is okay for us to be hypocrites in other words) and we you don't need a Pakistani perspective to criticize him is a fallacious argument.

Pakistani perspective reveals that if we criticize him on this matter we are simply not practicing what we preach, and of course the U.S. perspective (which is not mine) can be critical of him.

 

[Mamoon]

Just showing your own bias here, the US Pakistanis have been scoring points against British Pakistanis for so long yet you have no issue with that. That is if you really believe there is any point scoring going on, my own belief is that everyone here discusses topics on their merits whether they are about Pakistanis, Indians, Saudis etc. I in turn reciprocate the delightful discourse in a spirit of common understanding.

Why should I have an issue with that? I'm neither an American nor a British citizen, although I highly favor the UK for personal reasons, but I don't like fighting other people's wars.

 

[tempus123]

Pakistani Americans will be happy with their median household income of $75000 or so which is higher than the average of the country. They will also keep trumpeting how wel they are regarded due to their professional jobs and higher percentage of university graduates among them than the average of the country again.

This. Wonder why people worry about that.

 

[Deosai]

Hindus of Pakistan are the minority so of course they can raise their voices against discrimination.

and American Muslims are minorities of America (& citizens too).

 

[Mamoon]

and American Muslims are minorities of America (& citizens too).

They can criticize it, as long as they do not advocate what's happening in Pakistan, but it will be hypocritical for Pakistanis to do the same, or even expats if they endorse the law in Pakistan and there plenty of them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why should I have an issue with that? I'm neither an American nor a British citizen, although I highly favor the UK for personal reasons, but I don't like fighting other people's wars.

Yet you were the one who brought up Pakistani law into this thread. Who was that addressed to? I can only imagine it was to Pakistani Americans since that is the only people this thread is relevant to.

 

[Mamoon]

Yet you were the one who brought up Pakistani law into this thread. Who was that addressed to? I can only imagine it was to Pakistani Americans since that is the only people this thread is relevant to.

It was directed at Pakistanis and expat Pakistanis (who endorse the constitutional law regarding presidency in Pakistan).

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This. Wonder why people worry about that.

So you too endorse the ban on Pakistanis becoming President of the US? High 5 tempus bro.

 

[Cracket]

Carson voiced his opinion. By law, any Muslim can run for Presidency. Can the same be said about Islamic nations?

I wish the same could be said about India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It was directed at Pakistanis and expat Pakistanis (who endorse the constitutional law regarding presidency in Pakistan).

What's hypocritical about that? I support Pakistanis deciding their own constitution the same as I would endorse Japanese citizens deciding Japan's or Americans deciding US presidency. That is the very point of democracy.

 

[Deosai]

Carson voiced his opinion. By law, any Muslim can run for Presidency. Can the same be said about Islamic nations?

I wish the same could be said about India.

voiced his opinion as a Presidential candidate, that's a good enough reason for some people not to vote for him.

 

[tempus123]

So you too endorse the ban on Pakistanis becoming President of the US? High 5 tempus bro.

I don't have any authority about it .. but if asked yes, i oppose Pakistanis becoming President of any country.

 

[Varun]

Carson voiced his opinion. By law, any Muslim can run for Presidency. Can the same be said about Islamic nations?

I wish the same could be said about India.

Well we've had a Muslim President and a Sikh PM this century.

 

[90MPH]

I don't have any authority about it .. but if asked yes, i oppose Pakistanis becoming President of any country.

Pointless point.

 

[tempus123]

Pointless point.

Pointless was the question.

 

[tempus123]

Well we've had a Muslim President and a Sikh PM this century.

Lol... the President is not the leader of the public.. and Sikh puppet PM ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't have any authority about it .. but if asked yes, i oppose Pakistanis becoming President of any country.

Well I think Pakistanis should perhaps be allowed to become President of Pakistan so perhaps you are being a bit too harsh there, but at least we are agreed on the USA.

 

[Cracket]

Lol... the President is not the leader of the public.. and Sikh puppet PM ?

Well still, the point stands that a Muslim was able to host an honorary government post in a hindu majority nation. Which is a quality to be proud of, as one would hope things would improve from there.

And certainly, much more than Pakistan can boast of.

 

[tempus123]

Well still, the point stands that a Muslim was able to host an honorary government post in a hindu majority nation. Which is a quality to be proud of, as one would hope things would improve from there.

And certainly, much more than Pakistan can boast of.

If I am not wrong, Pakistani Supreme court had a Hindu judge.. which is a more important position than the President which is a symbolic post only.

 

[tempus123]

Well I think Pakistanis should perhaps be allowed to become President of Pakistan so perhaps you are being a bit too harsh there, but at least we are agreed on the USA.

I wished to include Pakistan as well, when I said "any".. but you are right, we can't disallow it for Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

What's hypocritical about that? I support Pakistanis deciding their own constitution the same as I would endorse Japanese citizens deciding Japan's or Americans deciding US presidency. That is the very point of democracy.

'Its okay as long as we are not at the receiving end' - this is what described the ummah today, and it is clearly hypocritical.

 

[90MPH]

oh look another Indian who needs to reassure himself that India is better than Pakistan. Is this the only thing that lets you guys sleep at night? Or is Pakistan the only country you look to when deciding how far you've reached as a nation?

It's the main reason most of them come here. I keep saying It's big brother syndrome. That mentality will stay for a long time if 70 years on from independence they still are suffering from it.

 

[sshakir411]

It's the main reason most of them come here. I keep saying It's big brother syndrome. That mentality will stay for a long time if 70 years on from independence they still are suffering from it.

well comparing India to Pakistan shows what standards India has set for itself, I guess.

Any who, back to the thread. Dr Carson seems to have forgotten up until a few years ago his Republican counterparts believe colored ppl shouldnt be president.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

'Its okay as long as we are not at the receiving end' - this is what described the ummah today, and it is clearly hypocritical.

Except nobody is saying 'Its okay as long as we are not at the receiving end' so you can't really use your own statement to bash someone else, otherwise you are doing exactly what you wrongly accused me of i.e., point scoring against Pakistani Americans.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Carson voiced his opinion. By law, any Muslim can run for Presidency. Can the same be said about Islamic nations?

I wish the same could be said about India.

This!Some people on this forum will question secular credentials of others while their own country is a religious republic.When faced with the question they will say "We are not secular so we can,they are secular so they cant".May be they dont realise that the world is ultimately based on give and take.

voiced his opinion as a Presidential candidate, that's a good enough reason for some people not to vote for him.

Yes!Those who dont agree with him mustnt vote for him.

If I am not wrong, Pakistani Supreme court had a Hindu judge.. which is a more important position than the President which is a symbolic post only.

How many Muslim SC judges and CJI India has had do you know?The bench that threw out Srini from BCCI was headed by a muslim.

 

[tempus123]

.

How many Muslim SC judges and CJI India has had do you know?The bench that threw out Srini from BCCI was headed by a muslim.

And how is that relevant to my point ?

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

He's going to lose a lot in the polls after this, but he also did that with his poor showing at the debate.

 

[Mamoon]

Except nobody is saying 'Its okay as long as we are not at the receiving end' so you can't really use your own statement to bash someone else, otherwise you are doing exactly what you wrongly accused me of i.e., point scoring against Pakistani Americans.

I made a general statement that it happens, I didn't name anyone. You seem to have taken offense to my point scoring comment, which was in response to you taking jabs at U.S. Pakistanis for belittling their British counterparts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And how is that relevant to my point ?

You brought the point that a Hindu was CJ of Pakistan.There has been numeroue CJI who are Muslims.

 

[boomboomcheema]

Chief Justice of Pakistan >>>>>>>>>> President of India.

 

[tempus123]

You brought the point that a Hindu was CJ of Pakistan.There has been numeroue CJI who are Muslims.

So pointing out that a Hindu was judge in Pakistan has to be countered by Muslim CJIs of India ? Were you proving me wrong this way ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I made a general statement that it happens, I didn't name anyone. You seem to have taken offense to my point scoring comment, which was in response to you taking jabs at U.S. Pakistanis for belittling their British counterparts.

No one is taking offence at anything, we are just having a discussion. You took some jabs at Pakistani Americans and I concurred. Not that Carson's speech was directed at Pakistanis, but since you led the discussion in that direction I just went along with it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So pointing out that a Hindu was judge in Pakistan has to be countered by Muslim CJIs of India ? Were you proving me wrong this way ?

You were trying to prove that a Muslim President of India is no big deal but a Hindu CJ of Pakistan is important.Hence told you that there have been Muslim CJI of India.Infact Muslims have held most important posts in India except the PM.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Never claimed that it is a law, but my point is that we are not in a position to criticize it as long as we do not criticize our constitution that promotes them same ideology - 'non-muslims unfit to be Pakistan PM'.

Well of course that is hypocritical, what else will you call it.

Pakistan is the epitome of hypocrisy in this world, as are mainstream Muslims.

Countless individuals value themselves more than non-Muslims as they are better.

If one actually believes in religion, then they believe all humans are created equal, but then the pretentiousness of being a Muslim, therefore being better than non-Muslims, is not even understanding their own religion.

Everyone picks and chooses what they want to believe and are hypocrites left and right.

Pakistanis think Americans are bad the moment they utter a word about Muslims and belittling them, which morally of course is correct, but never inflect and think they do the same thing to any culture or religion that is not their own as well.

We as a people continually sit on a high horse simply because we are Pakistani and Muslim and hold values, and do not realize that that in and of itself is hypocrisy and diminishes the value of our thoughts and opinions.

This isn't necessarily a Pakistani notion, most if not all nations, cultures, peoples and religions are hypocrites and self indulgent.

 

[tempus123]

You were trying to prove that a Muslim President of India is no big deal but a Hindu CJ of Pakistan is important.Hence told you that there have been Muslim CJI of India.Infact Muslims have held most important posts in India except the PM.

Arre bhai.. if I am saying A > B .. you are trying to prove me wrong by saying C > A ? I didn't even talk about C at all.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Arre bhai.. if I am saying A > B .. you are trying to prove me wrong by saying C > A ? I didn't even talk about C at all.

You are saying A > B.While i am saying A+B > B

 

[tempus123]

You are saying A > B.While i am saying A+B > B

That's all fine.. but it's irrelevant to the point I was making.. unless I was claiming A+B < B

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan is the epitome of hypocrisy in this world, as are mainstream Muslims.

Countless individuals value themselves more than non-Muslims as they are better.

If one actually believes in religion, then they believe all humans are created equal, but then the pretentiousness of being a Muslim, therefore being better than non-Muslims, is not even understanding their own religion.

Everyone picks and chooses what they want to believe and are hypocrites left and right.

Pakistanis think Americans are bad the moment they utter a word about Muslims and belittling them, which morally of course is correct, but never inflect and think they do the same thing to any culture or religion that is not their own as well.

We as a people continually sit on a high horse simply because we are Pakistani and Muslim and hold values, and do not realize that that in and of itself is hypocrisy and diminishes the value of our thoughts and opinions.

This isn't necessarily a Pakistani notion, most if not all nations, cultures, peoples and religions are hypocrites and self indulgent.

Wonderful post.

 

[Mamoon]

No one is taking offence at anything, we are just having a discussion. You took some jabs at Pakistani Americans and I concurred. Not that Carson's speech was directed at Pakistanis, but since you led the discussion in that direction I just went along with it.

I was taking jabs at Pakistanis not looking closer to home, not U.S. Pakistanis specifically.