"My daughters are not going to be competing in public sporting activities" : Shahid Afridi

[BreadPakoda]

Well here's a surprise for you.

They dont

I agree with brother Khan.

 

[BreadPakoda]

What Afridi said was in a very loving way. These modern highly educated feminists will ignore that part. According to Islam, it is the mother who plays a predominant role in shaping up the personality of the kids and providing martial bliss at home, looking after the house. This is not to say that men should not contribute at home and should play an equal role but the primary responsibility is off the woman as a wife and mother.

Sadly these modern highly educated rebelious feminists have now started propogating and promoting that mothers should play less of a role and fathers should play more of a role in the house and with the kids. What these women need is a strict aggressive chauvenistic dude who will give them the danda to put them straight. Then i will see how real their femi nazism is against a powerful chauvenistic guy

Do you reckon the education levels for women should be restricted to help them follow the right path?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

oh man, this post has so many questions from me but I will keep it concise to the bolded part. Also - I agree with you about some of the extreme feminists (especially here in California) but these to me are a minority and my questions below still remain

1. What are your thoughts about men flaunting multiple GFs, promising marriages to women and ditching them? How are they dealt with if the society continues to be on unequal gender footing? Is that considered acceptable for men but a total horror if women do that?

2. What is wrong with a girl being social, and having some drinks? (having drinks is NOT the same is getting drunk which is a problem)? Would you not want an independent free thinking person as your peer instead of someone raised in a totally controlled environment? I'm actually wondering if our cultural differences are coming into play here as I type this question.

My above 2 questions being said, I know what you mean by women who selectively play gender card but exploit men as needed. These are wretched individuals but even here in the US they are only a minority.

Your POV makes perfect sense in the USA, but Afridi is bringing his daughters up in Pakistan so you have to factor in two differences. Pakistan is an Islamic country where alcohol and pre-marital relations are banned for both sexes.

Secondly, Afridi's family are Pashtuns who consider themselves as standard bearers for their region and culture. You could equate them with the high castes of Hinduism I guess, so for them it is a matter of pride when they uphold their traditions and values, however odd it might seem to others who are more willing to go with the times.

 

[Savak]

Do you reckon the education levels for women should be restricted to help them follow the right path?

Not necessarily, but women need to be raised to follow the lead of their husbands and to fully support, back them and that they are primarily responsible for marital bliss at home, peace and tranquility at home, for the upbringing of the kids, she can pursue a professional career but that should not come at the cost of her primary duties at home and that any sort of revolt against the husband should in the worst case scenario.

 

[IMMY69]

Not necessarily, but women need to be raised to follow the lead of their husbands and to fully support, back them and that they are primarily responsible for marital bliss at home, peace and tranquility at home, for the upbringing of the kids, she can pursue a professional career but that should not come at the cost of her primary duties at home and that any sort of revolt against the husband should in the worst case scenario.

Does the wife need a good slap too when she speaks out of turn?
Walk a few paces behind you, cover her hair and refrain from speaking to people of the opposite sex unless they are her relatives?

Mate I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious here...

 

[Savak]

Does the wife need a good slap too when she speaks out of turn?
Walk a few paces behind you, cover her hair and refrain from speaking to people of the opposite sex unless they are her relatives?

Mate I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious here...

Wives should be disciplined, homely and proper. They should not be disrespected but after marriage her number one priority should be her husband. I am sure a wife would not want her husband to engage with the opposite sex outside her relatives constantly.

Am being dead serious here. These highly educated modern femi nazi's morally scrupulous women have brainwashed women to move away from their traditional roles outlined in Islam.

 

[troodon]

Not necessarily, but women need to be raised to follow the lead of their husbands and to fully support, back them and that they are primarily responsible for marital bliss at home, peace and tranquility at home, for the upbringing of the kids, she can pursue a professional career but that should not come at the cost of her primary duties at home and that any sort of revolt against the husband should in the worst case scenario.

Why should they be raised to follow the lead of their husband? Are they so stupid that they cannot survive without a man telling them what to do?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Not necessarily, but women need to be raised to follow the lead of their husbands and to fully support, back them and that they are primarily responsible for marital bliss at home, peace and tranquility at home, for the upbringing of the kids, she can pursue a professional career but that should not come at the cost of her primary duties at home and that any sort of revolt against the husband should in the worst case scenario.

But too much education can liberate them to dangerous levels, no? Can't that potentially hamper marital bliss?

 

[Savak]

Why should they be raised to follow the lead of their husband? Are they so stupid that they cannot survive without a man telling them what to do?

Not stupid but if you give them too much leeway and liberties, they will end up abusing that privillege

 

[Savak]

But too much education can liberate them to dangerous levels, no? Can't that potentially hamper marital bliss?

To be honest, education isn't the problem, upbringing and niyat is. A highly educated woman is fine as long as she denounces the femi nazism being spread around the world and swears allegiance to her husband and supports him wholeheartedly at home and in public and does not defy him.

 

[Green Patriot]

To be honest, education isn't the problem, upbringing and niyat is. A highly educated woman is fine as long as she denounces the femi nazism being spread around the world and swears allegiance to her husband and supports him wholeheartedly at home and in public and does not defy him.

Truer words have never been spoken.
That is indeed the definition of an ideal relationship between God and his creation.

Oh wait.......

 

[Green Patriot]

I agree with brother Khan.

And where did he say it is a man's right to have complete control over his both his daughter and wife's lives??

I hope you were being sarcastic with that particular viewpoint but with men you never know.

 

[troodon]

Not stupid but if you give them too much leeway and liberties, they will end up abusing that privillege

Just like men have been abusing their privileges for centuries. They created the rules and expect the other 50% of the population to follow those rules. All rules are for men. They can marry more than 1 women, they can go out any time they want, no limits on education, no limit to sport, no restrictions on travel............ Many women in conservative societies do not have the above privileges.

What if somebody told Afridi that Men are not allowed to play sport as they will be wearing tight pants and shirts that show off their arms? Will he be happy?

 

[IMMY69]

Not stupid but if you give them too much leeway and liberties, they will end up abusing that privillege

What if you have a daughter and one day she tells you she is gay?
How will you react to that and where does a man come into it in this instance?

 

[siddharth]

Fans are going extra yards to defend their heroes ugly misogyny in the most bizzare fashion...This is what blind fanship will do...

 

[Savak]

What if you have a daughter and one day she tells you she is gay?
How will you react to that and where does a man come into it in this instance?

This is a possibility if you give women too many liberties and leeway. A girl who has been rightfully raised will never stray on the wrong path like this. But hypothetically speaking i will demand she immediately changes her ways, thought process otherwise i will never have anything to do with her again.

 

[troodon]

This is a possibility if you give women too many liberties and leeway. A girl who has been rightfully raised will never stray on the wrong path like this. But hypothetically speaking i will demand she immediately changes her ways, thought process otherwise i will never have anything to do with her again.

Are you serious? You think gay orientation comes due to exposure to other gays?

You cannot control your sexual orientation.

 

[Savak]

Just like men have been abusing their privileges for centuries. They created the rules and expect the other 50% of the population to follow those rules. All rules are for men. They can marry more than 1 women, they can go out any time they want, no limits on education, no limit to sport, no restrictions on travel............ Many women in conservative societies do not have the above privileges.

What if somebody told Afridi that Men are not allowed to play sport as they will be wearing tight pants and shirts that show off their arms? Will he be happy?

Men have some of those privlleges like going out any time they want, no limits to education, no limits to sports, no restrictions to travel because man is responsible for being the primary bread earner of the house and family, he is responsible for setting the direction of the house therefore he has to be allowed those privilleges and cannot be bound at home. When a man doesn't fulfil these responsibilities at home, he gets accussed of being a dead beat husband, dad and is mocked by women that the wife is the one wearing the pants in the house in comparison to the husband.

Lol, as if more than 1 marriage is a privillege, it is not, it is a recipe for headache and an early potential death. Women make it sound as if men don't go through any stress or headache at all when it comes to dealing with them.

Afridi does not have to worry about men not being allowed to play sports because he knows it is illogical and not going to happen.

 

[Savak]

Are you serious? You think gay orientation comes due to exposure to other gays?

You cannot control your sexual orientation.

Ofcourse it does. Your environment and surroundings strongly influence and shape you up as you get older

 

[Savak]

Lol, i remember at a dinner conversation with my elders where they were grilling me on marriage and what i truly want in a spouse. I thundered and declared i want 2 wives, one who is a pure housewife with perfect marriage material, house wife, home making abilities, looks will completely be secondary and she should be responsible for taking care of the house and kids. The second wife will be like an Iman Ali, Sana Javed, Mila Kunis who will strictly accompany me in events, social gatherings, dinners, parties e.t.c

Lol all my khalas, female cousins layed into me that day. Sigh i know this is just an ideal scenario which is never going to happen.

 

[Savak]

Fans are going extra yards to defend their heroes ugly misogyny in the most bizzare fashion...This is what blind fanship will do...

There is no misogyny here, a man must protect his wife, love interest, sisters, female cousins and daughters at all costs.

 

[troodon]

There is no misogyny here, a man must protect his wife, love interest, sisters, female cousins and daughters at all costs.

Sure. A woman and her progeny (if adults) must also protect a man from external factors if needed.

But protection does not mean tying them at home and not allowing them to explore their talents and grow and make a career out of it.

What you are saying is, if I keep my daughters and wife restricted to home, they will never be in danger and hence I am protecting them. What a selfish way of thinking. You are only looking at your wife and kids from your eyes. Think about them from their point of view. If you cannot, then you are a misogynist.

 

[Sachin136]

Lol, i remember at a dinner conversation with my elders where they were grilling me on marriage and what i truly want in a spouse. I thundered and declared i want 2 wives, one who is a pure housewife with perfect marriage material, house wife, home making abilities, looks will completely be secondary and she should be responsible for taking care of the house and kids. The second wife will be like an Iman Ali, Sana Javed, Mila Kunis who will strictly accompany me in events, social gatherings, dinners, parties e.t.c

Lol all my khalas, female cousins layed into me that day. Sigh i know this is just an ideal scenario which is never going to happen.

Hopefully you end up with neither. No woman should have to suffer with such a misogynist and get "disciplined, homely and proper".

 

[IMMY69]

This is a possibility if you give women too many liberties and leeway. A girl who has been rightfully raised will never stray on the wrong path like this. But hypothetically speaking i will demand she immediately changes her ways, thought process otherwise i will never have anything to do with her again.

I say this with my hand on my heart because I think you’re really struggling in life.
You are exhibiting characteristics of someone who is trying to hide their true self. All this man is the bread winner, wife must bring up kids and look after the home is just a front.

Coming out is not easy as i’ve Seen it with friends. They were just like you but ultimately you must live your life as you are meant to be. There plenty of groups you can contact to help you come out safely and to assist you in being the human being you were born to be.

I wish you well.

 

[Savak]

Sure. A woman and her progeny (if adults) must also protect a man from external factors if needed.

But protection does not mean tying them at home and not allowing them to explore their talents and grow and make a career out of it.

What you are saying is, if I keep my daughters and wife restricted to home, they will never be in danger and hence I am protecting them. What a selfish way of thinking. You are only looking at your wife and kids from your eyes. Think about them from their point of view. If you cannot, then you are a misogynist.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Afridi knows his daughters are not good enough to be sportsmen hence the reason why he has forbidden them from taking part in sports. I am all for women exploring their talents, careers and potential but not at the expense of her duties at home towards her husband and kids.

If parents do not establish boundaries with daughters at a very young age protecting them from corrupt influences then they will not be able to control or influence them later

 

[Gilly]

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Afridi knows his daughters are not good enough to be sportsmen hence the reason why he has forbidden them from taking part in sports. I am all for women exploring their talents, careers and potential but not at the expense of her duties at home towards her husband and kids.

If parents do not establish boundaries with daughters at a very young age protecting them from corrupt influences then they will not be able to control or influence them later

Who controls you?.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

D

There is a fine line between a girl being indepedent free thinking person and someone who is downright rebelious, feminist, competitive, unsympathetic and someone who just feels is superior too you. Sadly i have come across plenty of highly educated, high achieving women who look down and denigrate their husbands if they are not as successful as them or don't earn as much as them and then these women take digs at the guys masculinity and the fact that she is wearing pants in the house in comparison to him. Sometimes highly educated women like to argue about each and everything with their husbands and defy their wishes because they just stubbornly want their own way leading to a lot of problems and unhappiness in the family. I have seen close to home that women now days have openly started demanding divorces in comparison to the past and this modern highly educated femi nazi brigade which is hell bent on 24/7 man hating is to blame for this.

The reason for highly educated women looking down on their husbands who are not as successful as them, is because they didn't want to marry them in the first place. The reason they married them was because they were getting older and decided to "Settle". Alot of highly educated men marry down which creates a problem for highly educated women, who dont want to do that. I dont think these women would be bad wives, as long as they marry their "Equal".

 

[Gilly]

The reason for highly educated women looking down on their husbands who are not as successful as them, is because they didn't want to marry them in the first place. The reason they married them was because they were getting older and decided to "Settle". Alot of highly educated men marry down which creates a problem for highly educated women, who dont want to do that. I dont think these women would be bad wives, as long as they marry their "Equal".

Maybe that is the root cause of the problem, some men in some cultures are fearful that given the opportunity women will prove to be equal or even better than men.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Maybe that is the root cause of the problem, some men in some cultures are fearful that given the opportunity women will prove to be equal or even better than men.

I disagree there is no shortage of men who would love to marry high earning women. Its expensive in the West. The problem, at least for highly educated women, is that many highly educated, high earning men , instead of marring women who are their equals, use their financial strength to get Trophy wives. Also some just want housewives who will cook and look after the kidds. This creates a shortage, and those Women settle with men they didn't want in the first place.

 

[Gilly]

I disagree there is no shortage of men who would love to marry high earning women. Its expensive in the West. The problem, at least for highly educated women, is that many highly educated, high earning men , instead of marring women who are their equals, use their financial strength to get Trophy wives. Also some just want housewives who will cook and look after the kidds. This creates a shortage, and those Women settle with men they didn't want in the first place.

These are the women that wont challenge their authority.

What effect does a womens success have on a mans, A man is successful if he becomes vice president but is he still a success if his wife is the president?.

 

[MenInG]

Watch what you post here guys - Ok to discuss but posting inappropriate stuff will be dealt with.

 

[IMMY69]

“Behind every successful man is a strong woman...”

 

[Birdman]

As a father of 2 Daughters, one of whom is an elite athlete I kinda agree with Afridi. It's easy for some of us sitting in western countries and criticize him for making a decision regarding his daughters. He knows what's best for his children and his decision are based on where he is living, his cultural norms and his children's future.

 

[MenInG]

As a father of 2 Daughters, one of whom is an elite athlete I kinda agree with Afridi. It's easy for some of us sitting in western countries and criticize him for making a decision regarding his daughters. He knows what's best for his children and his decision are based on where he is living, his cultural norms and his children's future.

Wow Amazing, when I read the bold part, I was half expecting you to be castigating Afridi but you shocked me!

 

[troodon]

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Afridi knows his daughters are not good enough to be sportsmen hence the reason why he has forbidden them from taking part in sports. I am all for women exploring their talents, careers and potential but not at the expense of her duties at home towards her husband and kids.

If parents do not establish boundaries with daughters at a very young age protecting them from corrupt influences then they will not be able to control or influence them later

Giving freedom to women does not mean leaving them on the streets and not watch over them. Women liberation means allowing women to take their own decisions and guide them if needed. Of course you have to protect them from bad influences like drugs, uninhibited partying etc.

If your daughter wants to be a police officer, will you stop her? If she wants to be a Cricketer, will you stop? If she wants to marry a person of her choice, will you stop her? Will you tell her that your duty is to have babies and take care of them, so stop with your thinking of having a career?

By making women sit at home, you will be making her financially dependent and they will never know how the world works. My wife works. I share half of her duties. I cook, clean and do laundry and even feed my 2 kids. She does it too. Its all about sharing responsibilities. Not asking your wife to sit at home and do nothing even though she has career aspirations.

 

[IMMY69]

As a father of 2 Daughters, one of whom is an elite athlete I kinda agree with Afridi. It's easy for some of us sitting in western countries and criticize him for making a decision regarding his daughters. He knows what's best for his children and his decision are based on where he is living, his cultural norms and his children's future.

It's to do with choice and the ability for a child (no matter what the sex is) to ultimately make their own decision and for the parents to support their child no matter what.

 

[Savak]

Giving freedom to women does not mean leaving them on the streets and not watch over them. Women liberation means allowing women to take their own decisions and guide them if needed. Of course you have to protect them from bad influences like drugs, uninhibited partying etc.

If your daughter wants to be a police officer, will you stop her? If she wants to be a Cricketer, will you stop? If she wants to marry a person of her choice, will you stop her? Will you tell her that your duty is to have babies and take care of them, so stop with your thinking of having a career?

By making women sit at home, you will be making her financially dependent and they will never know how the world works. My wife works. I share half of her duties. I cook, clean and do laundry and even feed my 2 kids. She does it too. Its all about sharing responsibilities. Not asking your wife to sit at home and do nothing even though she has career aspirations.

I will object to her being a police officer because i don't want her in harms way. I will object to her being a cricketer if i feel deep down she isn't good enough and her future prospects are bleak. There is no need to tell her, she should know deep down that regardless of her career aspirations, her primary duties are at home as a home maker, wife and mother. That is what she will be judged on later on in life, not because of what she has achieved professionally.

Women don't necessarily have to sit at home, i will let my spouse work part time or full time but if the house and kids end up getting neglected, she will have to make a sacrifice and take on the even greatest responsibility of temporarily being a house wife for a couple of years till the time we as a family can afford to hire help whereby making it possible where she can balance her professional and homely duties justly and equally. Unfortunately in the West, i have seen many times desi women get a harsh dose of reality where they realize that they cannot pursue full fledged professional careers and do justice as a mother and wife, hence have seen many women take a break for a good 4-5 years from work to focus full time on the kids, in Pakistan this is not a problem because of the privillege of living close to extended family and having the ability to hire help cheaply in comparison to the west.

Ofcourse a husband has to and should help out at home as much as possible to ease the workload on his wife but ultimately he is the primary bread earner in the house, he is primarily responsible for providing for his wife and kids, that is what he is going to be judged on in the end. If this means he has to be away from home in the morning and come back home late at night in the process of providing for his family then that is what it is, he is fulfilling the role given to him as outlined in Islam.

Both my parents were high achieving doctors. But from the very beginning my dad told my mom that he is responsible for providing for the household expenses, kids from his own salary and that my mom will not spend anything from her salary on these things and she can keep ownership of her salary.

 

[troodon]

Why is it the mothers responsibility? Why cannot the father do the chores? If it is a breast fed infant, mother can take extended maternity leave. But asking her to sit at home permanently is terrible. She is not born to raise your children and cook and clean after you.

If the kids are not good enough, then its okay to guide them and tell them the reality. But if your daughter is a gifted athlete and you tell her to stop playing and concentrate on learning how to be a good house wife, then its not right.

A man and woman have equal responsibility in maintaining and raising the kids. Its not just a woman's job. Again, a woman is not born to raise a man's child. She is an individual. Not some baby popping machine that also cooks and cleans.

What is a man being the main bread winner of the family? My wife makes more than me. There are many career options for a woman that let her earn more than a man. We are not living in hunter gatherer societies anymore. Modern tech and science lets people to use their brains to earn the money. Thankfully you do not need big muscles to earn big bucks in 2019.

 

[Birdman]

It's to do with choice and the ability for a child (no matter what the sex is) to ultimately make their own decision and for the parents to support their child no matter what.

A child cannot make his or her own decision, parents are responsible for the child and have to make the decision for them. I don't know till what age someone is considered a minor in Pakistan, but as long as they are minors,it is the duty of the parents to make the lawful choice for the child.

A father is making a lawful decision based on what he think is best for his daughters and we should respect that.

 

[Sachin136]

As a father of 2 Daughters, one of whom is an elite athlete I kinda agree with Afridi. It's easy for some of us sitting in western countries and criticize him for making a decision regarding his daughters. He knows what's best for his children and his decision are based on where he is living, his cultural norms and his children's future.

Don't normalize sexism and misogyny by saying that it is a cultural thing.

 

[Birdman]

Wow Amazing, when I read the bold part, I was half expecting you to be castigating Afridi but you shocked me!

I am basing it on my own experience. My elder daughter was really good in her sport and was offered scholarship at a P-5 College as an eight grader and will be playing for them in couple years. People thought her sister would follow suit, but she had no interest in sports and did not want to put in the time and work. She wanted to have a normal childhood and we let her be. But people thought we were neglecting our younger one and spent all the time with the older child. They did not know the real story and just assumed stuffs.

 

[Birdman]

Don't normalize sexism and misogyny by saying that it is a cultural thing.

You raise your child as you see fit, don't tell someone how to raise their child.

 

[Savak]

Why is it the mothers responsibility? Why cannot the father do the chores? If it is a breast fed infant, mother can take extended maternity leave. But asking her to sit at home permanently is terrible. She is not born to raise your children and cook and clean after you.

The primary responsibility for raising the kids, maintaining the mahaul, environment at home is the mothers, cooking and cleaning can be outsourced but cooking is the woman's responsibility mostly. Whenever kids are raised well, the credit predominantly goes to the mother and if there is any short coming then questions are asked from the mother. Father has a role too but his predominant responsibility is to provide for the family and the wife needs to support him.

If the kids are not good enough, then its okay to guide them and tell them the reality. But if your daughter is a gifted athlete and you tell her to stop playing and concentrate on learning how to be a good house wife, then its not right.

If she was a gifted athlete i would allow her to fulfil her dreams but would also tell her that whatever she does or achieves in the outside world should not be at the expense of her role as a wife and mother down the line.

A man and woman have equal responsibility in maintaining and raising the kids. Its not just a woman's job. Again, a woman is not born to raise a man's child. She is an individual. Not some baby popping machine that also cooks and cleans.

This is where you are wrong. Yes a husband should lovingly participate and play his role in raising the kids but according to Islam, Science and reality children are mostly raised and influenced by the mother.

What is a man being the main bread winner of the family? My wife makes more than me. There are many career options for a woman that let her earn more than a man. We are not living in hunter gatherer societies anymore. Modern tech and science lets people to use their brains to earn the money. Thankfully you do not need big muscles to earn big bucks in 2019.

These are individual exceptions, and hypothetically speaking if my wife was professionally very successful and doing way better than me, then i would lovingly cut down my hours and play the role of a house husband so that the kids arent neglected. I have seen some guys do this and some of these outstanding women never admonish their husbands for not being as successful as them. But sadly our desi societies will mock a man who is not as successful as his wife. Lastly, lets talk about reality, two professional full time working spouses with kids is not realistically practical, child care expenses will eat up one partners salary and then your elders, parents will raise objections to the kids being raised by non muslims in child care centres and both spouses coming back home dead tired during evening to night time with no energy to take care of the house hold chores. In Pakistan you can have two professional working spouses with kids but not in the west, one partner will have to make the sacrifice and in most cases this ends up being the wife.

 

[Energy]

What Afridi said is not wrong but you have to wonder if there's a need for it to be told in the first place?

Did the book demand Afridi to categorically state what his daughters aren't allowed to do? Surely you can decide not to talk about it if it is a sensitive socio-cultural issue. Nobody is putting a gun on Afridi's head and asking him to let his daughters play outdoor sport.

Afridi fans are now forced to defend his every dumb action, even after his mediocre cricketing career which is sad.

 

[Savak]

What Afridi said is not wrong but you have to wonder if there's a need for it to be told in the first place?

Did the book demand Afridi to categorically state what his daughters aren't allowed to do? Surely you can decide not to talk about it if it is a sensitive socio-cultural issue. Nobody is putting a gun on Afridi's head and asking him to let his daughters play outdoor sport.

Afridi fans are now forced to defend his every dumb action, even after his mediocre cricketing career which is sad.

He wrote an autobiography and in an autobiography people talk their hearts out on all issues.

 

[troodon]

The primary responsibility for raising the kids, maintaining the mahaul, environment at home is the mothers, cooking and cleaning can be outsourced but cooking is the woman's responsibility mostly. Whenever kids are raised well, the credit predominantly goes to the mother and if there is any short coming then questions are asked from the mother. Father has a role too but his predominant responsibility is to provide for the family and the wife needs to support him.



If she was a gifted athlete i would allow her to fulfil her dreams but would also tell her that whatever she does or achieves in the outside world should not be at the expense of her role as a wife and mother down the line.



This is where you are wrong. Yes a husband should lovingly participate and play his role in raising the kids but according to Islam, Science and reality children are mostly raised and influenced by the mother.



These are individual exceptions, and hypothetically speaking if my wife was professionally very successful and doing way better than me, then i would lovingly cut down my hours and play the role of a house husband so that the kids arent neglected. I have seen some guys do this and some of these outstanding women never admonish their husbands for not being as successful as them. But sadly our desi societies will mock a man who is not as successful as his wife. Lastly, lets talk about reality, two professional full time working spouses with kids is not realistically practical, child care expenses will eat up one partners salary and then your elders, parents will raise objections to the kids being raised by non muslims in child care centres and both spouses coming back home dead tired during evening to night time with no energy to take care of the house hold chores. In Pakistan you can have two professional working spouses with kids but not in the west, one partner will have to make the sacrifice and in most cases this ends up being the wife.

I don't know where to start.

Its clear you are brought up in a certain way and you cannot change now. Its not totally women's duty to take care of kids and maintain ghar ka mahaul as you suggested. She is not a servant that you married to take care of home stuff. As I said before, we are not in medieval times. Men is not just the sole bread winner.
Nobody has to make a sacrifice like you suggested. I and my wife both work and we both take care of our kids. They go to day care/school and when they are home, its both of our responsibility to take care of them.

 

[troodon]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION], is your thinking of Men and women's duties influenced by Islam? I am asking because if it is Islam, it is clear in Islam that Men are the head of the home and women have to follow man.

 

[Darkrai]

The parents made the decision for their kids by having their best interest in mind. They are the parents, and their kids are minors, the parents have the right to make this decision. I don't see a problem here. People can stop crying now.

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION], is your thinking of Men and women's duties influenced by Islam? I am asking because if it is Islam, it is clear in Islam that Men are the head of the home and women have to follow man.

In some ways yes. Previously i was all in favor of live and let live, let women be liberalized and do as they wished but now i have come to the practical conclusion that there is a reason why Islam has mentioned the role of men and women explicitly.

 

[troodon]

In some ways yes. Previously i was all in favor of live and let live, let women be liberalized and do as they wished but now i have come to the practical conclusion that there is a reason why Islam has mentioned the role of men and women explicitly.

Don't you think we do not have to be like that anymore? World has changed and if both Husband and wife want, then a woman can easily shine by working and even out perform men in corporate environment. They can also opt for sports. At least as a form of physical exercise. Why curb the aspirations of 50% of the population for your selfish opinions or what religion teaches?

So since you are a practicing Muslim, you will not allow your wife to work. Sounds true as all the Muslims I know do not have working wives and they do not even bring their wives to birthday parties.

 

[Rafa]

Don't you think we do not have to be like that anymore? World has changed and if both Husband and wife want, then a woman can easily shine by working and even out perform men in corporate environment. They can also opt for sports. At least as a form of physical exercise. Why curb the aspirations of 50% of the population for your selfish opinions or what religion teaches?

So since you are a practicing Muslim, you will not allow your wife to work. Sounds true as all the Muslims I know do not have working wives and they do not even bring their wives to birthday parties.

Aren't you an Indian whose into business of arranged marriage? Why are you taking such a high moral ground when you people are infamous for forcing your children on their career choice, marriage choice and all those spelling bee contests?

You are not exactly considered a very westernized community in the West but ones who are still very conservative and force their children to become nerdy engineers and doctors.

 

[troodon]

Aren't you an Indian whose into business of arranged marriage? Why are you taking such a high moral ground when you people are infamous for forcing your children on their career choice, marriage choice and all those spelling bee contests?

You are not exactly considered a very westernized community in the West but ones who are still very conservative and force their children to become nerdy engineers and doctors.

The point is about not allowing women to even go out and play sport. Islam does not even allow that. Most of what Afridi thinks and the opinions expressed by Pak posters is due to Islam.

OP is claiming that women should sit at home and take care of kids, cook and clean. A very backward way of thinking IMO. That is where my issue is.

 

[Darkrai]

The point is about not allowing women to even go out and play sport. Islam does not even allow that. Most of what Afridi thinks and the opinions expressed by Pak posters is due to Islam.

OP is claiming that women should sit at home and take care of kids, cook and clean. A very backward way of thinking IMO. That is where my issue is.

Where does it say that Islam is against women going out and playing sport?

 

[shahamion]

It is not misogyny to protect your women in third world countries by restricting their movement. Patriarchal yes, but nothing wrong with it.

exactly

 

[Technics 1210]

Where does it say that Islam is against women going out and playing sport?

Please do not confuse the matter. He hasn't read the OP. Afridi has only said he doesn't want his children playing public/outdoor sports - and from this he's managed to find a way to attack Islam by totally miscontruing the OP from top to bottom.

 

[samurai]

Where does it say that Islam is against women going out and playing sport?

What all professions are allowed for women in Islam ? Are sports like gymnastics, wrestling, beach vollyball etc. allowed ?

 

[Darkrai]

What all professions are allowed for women in Islam ? Are sports like gymnastics, wrestling, beach vollyball etc. allowed ?

Islam promotes health and fitness, it encourages men and women to participate in physical activities to remain fit.

Dress code depends on the culture. In fact, people tend to confuse Islam and culture. Afridi's this decisions was mostly effected by his culture, and less by Islam. The dress in some sports such as wrestling is obviously not appropriate in Islam.

As far as professions go, women are allow many professions. Although in Islam providing for the family is men's responsibility but women can also work if they want. As long as it's not haram (strip club etc.), they have permission for acceptable professions such as medicine, teaching, business and so on.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Afridi daughters need rescuing , what a Neanderthal

Does no one remember Mohammed Ali’s daughter who become a world champ

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The point is about not allowing women to even go out and play sport. Islam does not even allow that. Most of what Afridi thinks and the opinions expressed by Pak posters is due to Islam.

OP is claiming that women should sit at home and take care of kids, cook and clean. A very backward way of thinking IMO. That is where my issue is.

That is still the case even in western countries for the majority of couples. Only difference is that the women have to work as well look after the children and do the cooking and cleaning. There is more of an effort to share the load these days, but when women don't have time to raise children, they often have to hire nannies to do it instead, and then we get horror films made where nannies kidnap the kids or torture them.

 

[BaankeJi]

This thread is opening my eyes about how backward people's thinking is even in this era. Raising kids is only a mother's responsibility? Taking care of household chores as well?

Wow! Never knew such people existed in such a large number.

Shameful.

 

[hafeezrocks]

This thread is opening my eyes about how backward people's thinking is even in this era. Raising kids is only a mother's responsibility? Taking care of household chores as well?

Wow! Never knew such people existed in such a large number.

Shameful.

Yes now you can feel good about your self and get back to cooking breakfast for your Woman.

Forward thinking Male

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes now you can feel good about your self and get back to cooking breakfast for your Woman.

Forward thinking Male

It is sad that these so called forward thinking males have been brainwashed and emasculated to the point that they think it is manly to cook breakfast for their wife and change the diapers of the babies.

 

[Pakistanian]

The point is about not allowing women to even go out and play sport. Islam does not even allow that. Most of what Afridi thinks and the opinions expressed by Pak posters is due to Islam.

OP is claiming that women should sit at home and take care of kids, cook and clean. A very backward way of thinking IMO. That is where my issue is.

Even if Afridi wasn't muslim he wouldn't allow his daughters to play, you probably have never heard of Pashtunwali, there's a cultural difference. The northern part of the subcontinent has always been more patriarchal than your part of the subcontinent.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This thread is opening my eyes about how backward people's thinking is even in this era. Raising kids is only a mother's responsibility? Taking care of household chores as well?

Wow! Never knew such people existed in such a large number.

Shameful.

Why is it opening your eyes? The subcontinent is backwards when it comes to domestic responsibilities even in this era. Are you going to tell me it's different in India?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

One of my friends in Canada married his first cousin. Initially i was like what the hell but now when i look at their relationship, i actually really envy him big time. She is a pure house wife while he is now on the verge of becoming a Partner in a Mid sized accounting firm. He has 4 kids and she without complaint looks after everything at home, the house, the kids, his parents, does all the grocery shopping, chores, she is an excellent cook and he is able to give his full 100% attention at work and then towards his private consultancy over the weekend. She allows him to leave the house at late night to hang out with friends for coffee, tea, dinner, shisha. He at the same time doesn't exploit this and gives time to his wife and kids but i absolutely envy this friend of mine and the arrangement he has and this is how ideally it should be between a guy and his wife.

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]...


I think you are struggling psychologically for "placement" of female role in the society.

On one hand you talk about the ideal cousin in Canada who has an envious wife "because she wants to stay home, look after children, gives man the time to go out late night for coffee shisha with friends".

Even without bothering to answer this, if this isn't pure sense of "male entitlement" that a wife should stay at home and do nothing, then what is?

And sadly, its coming from someone who is well educated and not even in Pakistan, so I shiver to think what Pakistani male mentality must be for wives? Probably we can beat them, harass them, force them into bed and ask them to be our slave?

On the other hand you mentioned somewhere else that you wanted 2 wives, one which was an outgoing modern type and the other your cousin's type. And you wanted the two wives again because "your personal self-entitlement wants you to have fun" while at the same time "wants your kids to be covered as well".

Where does this male superiority end?

Needless, to say I also wanted someone who drank, smoked and had a field day and was a party animal when I was young, but when I decided to marry I looked at the pros and cons and settled for someone who has more interested in "raising a home". Notice I said "raising a home" and not "Home maker". My wife has full liberty to work if she chooses, but right now she is taking care of my baby daughter by choice. She has full liberty to wear what she wants, do what she wants and I tend to care for all her material wants.

However, she is not into smoking, drinking, party and drugs and I wouldn't want it that way wither. It wouldn't fit with the idea I want for my daughter.

Giving woman independence is a must. But when men decide to show their true colors and their sense of "what they want from a woman" without even getting anything in return, it becomes really misogynistic and highlights male dominance.

On this topic, I quite clearly disagree with Afridi. I don't think a high ranking sportsperson should "blurt out what he wants for his daughters which will ignite the feminists on purpose". Imagine me telling my daughter as she turns 4 years old, that while I play tennis, you are not allowed because you are female and your job is to make the home.

The type of trauma endured is never replaceable.

 

[Pakpak]

Wives should be disciplined, homely and proper. They should not be disrespected but after marriage her number one priority should be her husband. I am sure a wife would not want her husband to engage with the opposite sex outside her relatives constantly.

Am being dead serious here. These highly educated modern femi nazi's morally scrupulous women have brainwashed women to move away from their traditional roles outlined in Islam.

Not stupid but if you give them too much leeway and liberties, they will end up abusing that privillege

Pretty horrendous posts and I am not surprised you're still single.

 

[Pakpak]

Everyone is entitled to his or her views. In Pakistan there is no bright future for female sports. So as a father, i wont want my daughters to do something like this.

Now had Afridi said it like this it'd be fine.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Now had Afridi said it like this it'd be fine.

I be very interested to see how many men buy his head and shoulders shampoo

 

[Tubs]

Many posts in this thread highlight how bad our culture is for women. They have no autonomy, and are to be relegated to be just housewives. Funny that feminism is being thrown into this a lot, while I agree that most of 3rd wave, Western feminism is a bit silly, Pakistan definitely does need feminism. Very, very disappointing and disturbing things have been written in this thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Many posts in this thread highlight how bad our culture is for women. They have no autonomy, and are to be relegated to be just housewives. Funny that feminism is being thrown into this a lot, while I agree that most of 3rd wave, Western feminism is a bit silly, Pakistan definitely does need feminism. Very, very disappointing and disturbing things have been written in this thread.

3rd wave western feminism might seem silly to you, but it has come about as a natural and organic growth from the early days in the 19th century. Perhaps one day in the future Pakistan might be able to call it's own third wave of feminism a bit silly. Wouldn't that be something?

 

[Zeshan547]

it's his personal life and personal choice, who are we to decide for him, and personally i won't let my daughters or sisters to have unconditional freedom just to be counted as modern and open minded liberal.

 

[Tubs]

3rd wave western feminism might seem silly to you, but it has come about as a natural and organic growth from the early days in the 19th century. Perhaps one day in the future Pakistan might be able to call it's own third wave of feminism a bit silly. Wouldn't that be something?

I'm unsure what you're trying to say, but what I am referring to is the wage gap (which has been thoroughly debunked), and the out of context rape stats being used in the US. These aren't really about equality anymore, it is just a movement gone out of control/lost most of its direction, but I'm sure there are still positives that come from the movement, too. But yes, I would much rather the situation in Pakistan be more like that West.

 

[Tubs]

it's his personal life and personal choice, who are we to decide for him, and personally i won't let my daughters or sisters to have unconditional freedom just to be counted as modern and open minded liberal.

It's their life, not yours. You don't own your sisters. When your daughters reach adulthood and what to do something that you disapprove of, what will you do?

 

[sjahmed23]

I was reading something similar related to this topic:

https://images.dawn.com/news/1182693

and it made me in a country which severely lacks doctors and medical professionals, people are becoming doctors on taxpayers dime for better rishtas smh...

 

[Zeshan547]

It's their life, not yours. You don't own your sisters. When your daughters reach adulthood and what to do something that you disapprove of, what will you do?

But I am their custodian and I am the one who will be answerable on the judgment day, so I will do whatever Islamic values and teachings are regarding the issue at hand. And western concept of equality and Islamic gender equality are very different so its everyone choice to follow whichever he wants. i can't and won't stop anyone how and why anyone treats his daughters, you can give your daughters as much freedom as you want man.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm unsure what you're trying to say, but what I am referring to is the wage gap (which has been thoroughly debunked), and the out of context rape stats being used in the US. These aren't really about equality anymore, it is just a movement gone out of control/lost most of its direction, but I'm sure there are still positives that come from the movement, too. But yes, I would much rather the situation in Pakistan be more like that West.

The point I'm making is it's about perspective. feminism isn't really out of control in the west, it is just finding it's own level organically as a result of earlier struggles. The process will be the same in Pakistan although it is much further behind, and a third world country which is 6th on the world list for danger to women.

 

[Tubs]

But I am their custodian and I am the one who will be answerable on the judgment day, so I will do whatever Islamic values and teachings are regarding the issue at hand. And western concept of equality and Islamic gender equality are very different so its everyone choice to follow whichever he wants. i can't and won't stop anyone how and why anyone treats his daughters, you can give your daughters as much freedom as you want man.

Right okay, you can believe in Islamic equality, but if your sister or daughter wanted to go against that, what would you do?

The point I'm making is it's about perspective. feminism isn't really out of control in the west, it is just finding it's own level organically as a result of earlier struggles. The process will be the same in Pakistan although it is much further behind, and a third world country which is 6th on the world list for danger to women.

Sorry, I did misinterpret you a little. A very rational post, I agree. As a side note, I didn't mean to say feminism is out of control in the West, just that some of the things that some feminists are fighting for are simply misinterpreted statistics.

 

[Savak]

I was reading something similar related to this topic:

https://images.dawn.com/news/1182693

and it made me in a country which severely lacks doctors and medical professionals, people are becoming doctors on taxpayers dime for better rishtas smh...

According to my sister who is a medical graduate. There are one million females who pursue the medical profession in Pakistan, i had doubts over this statistic as it looks pretty high but she countered that its not a very large number given that our population is 220 million, so the vast majority of women do end up pursuing their professions.

This is not just in medicine alone, even in my university batch, a lot of girls ended up being house wives. This is ultimately a personal decision between husband and wife, if they collectively feel that to bring up the kids better, one parent should be full time and hands on i.e. most likely the mother then we should respect their decision. Plus finances play a role too, its not cheap to hire help any more even in Pakistan now, the minimum cost for a driver in Defence is now Rs 25 k a month, for a cook it is Rs 20 k a month, a maid, guard is Rs 10 k each, then you have cleaners, gardener as well. Salaries in Pakistan have really not kept up with wages.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

According to my sister who is a medical graduate. There are one million females who pursue the medical profession in Pakistan, i had doubts over this statistic as it looks pretty high but she countered that its not a very large number given that our population is 220 million, so the vast majority of women do end up pursuing their professions.

This is not just in medicine alone, even in my university batch, a lot of girls ended up being house wives. This is ultimately a personal decision between husband and wife, if they collectively feel that to bring up the kids better, one parent should be full time and hands on i.e. most likely the mother then we should respect their decision. Plus finances play a role too, its not cheap to hire help any more even in Pakistan now, the minimum cost for a driver in Defence is now Rs 25 k a month, for a cook it is Rs 20 k a month, a maid, guard is Rs 10 k each, then you have cleaners, gardener as well. Salaries in Pakistan have really not kept up with wages.

Do you live in Pakistan currently or plan on settling there?

 

[CricketCartoons]

According to my sister who is a medical graduate. There are one million females who pursue the medical profession in Pakistan, i had doubts over this statistic as it looks pretty high but she countered that its not a very large number given that our population is 220 million, so the vast majority of women do end up pursuing their professions.

This is not just in medicine alone, even in my university batch, a lot of girls ended up being house wives. This is ultimately a personal decision between husband and wife, if they collectively feel that to bring up the kids better, one parent should be full time and hands on i.e. most likely the mother then we should respect their decision. Plus finances play a role too, its not cheap to hire help any more even in Pakistan now, the minimum cost for a driver in Defence is now Rs 25 k a month, for a cook it is Rs 20 k a month, a maid, guard is Rs 10 k each, then you have cleaners, gardener as well. Salaries in Pakistan have really not kept up with wages.

I hear you bro. Women think that taking care of the family is a demeaning job and working in industry is empowering, which leaves the elderly and the children to be taken care of by domestic helps who cannot be trusted and cost money. Is the extra money these women earn worth the damage to the family system? Not just that, they now compete for jobs which could have gone to men, thus putting men under more pressure and reducing jobs for them, which is what they are meant for, being the breadwinners and providers, while women are meant to be caretakers. What has worked for 5000 years will work for next 5000 years. Men need to be stronger and draw a line and women should know that they must sacrifice for the greater good of the family and society. Verily, heaven is at the feet of women, as long as they are not selfish.