Myths about Pakistani cricket debunked

[AssassinatedDevil]

1) Misbah wasn't a selfish player or a selfish captain. He was perhaps the greatest statesman for the country since Imran Khan and he always played for the team. He played according to the situation and he did his best when players around him would give their wickets away. He wasn't the ideal modern-day batsman, but clearly the best option we had till the 2015 world cup to lead the side with dignity and grace. His legacy extends alot more than just performances on the field, as his ability to nurture the side and recover from the dark depths of 2010 is something that we all should be grateful for to this day.

2) Sarfaraz is the best captain for this Pakistani side. He has issues with his captaincy like shouting at players too much but that doesn't warrant being kicked out of the team like some posters might say. People need to think of viable replacements if they want to kick Sarfaraz out. As for now, there is no one that has been groomed to replace Sarfaraz.

3) Babar Azam isn't a hack and short boundaries, flat pitches and weak bowling line-ups aren't the reason for his success. He has overachieved significantly for his age and he will hopefully keep doing so in the future. The only thing he lacks is a top-notch power game which he should develop after gaining some muscle mass over the years. His short ball problems will also disappear as he will be able to pull more easily. He has had to carry the team largely by himself and serve as the anchor since his debut, so he deserves full credit for that. As for scoring heavily against weaker sides like SL and WI, there is no harm in capitalizing against weaker opposition as much as possible. He hasn't been a dud in anyway against stronger oppositions like many posters would like us to believe. His temperament in clutch situations will get better overtime as he grows even more confident in his own ability.

4) PSL is going along nicely and despite most matches not being very high scoring games, we are still witnessing very good cricket being played. What PSL doesn't provide by missing out on high scorring games, it makes up for with extremely close finishes, just like last night super over finale. It's been a good contest between bat and ball, and players like Hussain Talat are surely to be selected for the national team purely because of his run scoring ability on pitches that don't aid him massively.

5) Pakistani cricket isn't regressing anymore like it was around the 2015 world cup. We aren't resorting to ttfs like Shafiq and all the akmals and have been able to unearth world class players like Shadab Khan, Babar Azam, Hasan Ali and Fakhar Zaman. We still have some problems in the team and 2 to 3 spots are up for grabs but we have a team nucleus that can go supernova when required.

 

[babajee]

I agree apart from Misbah. Ruined our cricket.

 

[UN talkz]

Agreed on all points
Misbah was a Legend and greatest for me as haven't watched Imran, too much unnecessary criticism for Misbah for no reason.

 

[rizwanak]

Good points made, a good post overall

 

[j_kazmi]

I don’t understand how people can say misbah ruined our cricket.

It’s definetly possible that he ruined the limited overs team that played under him. But to pin the blame of all of our batting problems on him is plain stupid.

It’s not his fault that we’re 30/3 in every other match or that none of th young talents are scoring runs in the psl.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I agree apart from Misbah. Ruined our cricket.

Interested what you think about Misbah. Elaborate please.

 

[The cricket enthusiast]

I don’t understand how people can say misbah ruined our cricket.

It’s definetly possible that he ruined the limited overs team that played under him. But to pin the blame of all of our batting problems on him is plain stupid.

It’s not his fault that we’re 30/3 in every other match or that none of th young talents are scoring runs in the psl.

i think misbah is the idol of players like kamran and hafeeez no mattter how old they get they will keep giving example of misbah as their motivation to play in thier 40s.
well what they wont tell is how fit misbah was even at that age he can easily outrun the likes of umar akmal , hafeez, maqsood easily.
but these mediocre at best players will.give age as just a number excuse
and will punish pakistan for years to come

 

[big_gamer007]

Biggest myth is Pakistani ke har gali nukkar mei talent koot koot kar bhara hua hai..

 

[Ali Bohra]

As for scoring heavily against weaker sides like SL and WI, there is no harm in capitalizing against weaker opposition as much as possible.

This one stood out for me. Find it kind of Funny..

When indian batsman score againts this team, most will point them out as Minnow basher.. Just Its Funny.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

As for scoring heavily against weaker sides like SL and WI, there is no harm in capitalizing against weaker opposition as much as possible.

This one stood out for me. Find it kind of Funny..��

When indian batsman score againts this team, most will point them out as Minnow basher.. ���� Just Its Funny.

A large number of posters on this forum call babar a minnow basher. What's your point? I don't call those indian players or babar a minnow basher, regardless of how much runs they pile on against WI or SL.

 

[Ali Bohra]

Nothing wrong pilling runs against any weak opposition, whats important is these batter should atleat compete or i should say contribute Decent to the team cause when playing againts Quality opponent.

I will point out Rohits case he is big minnow basher.. I find him really poor becuase more often then not or just say it simply 6 out of 10 he will not contribute decently againts quality opponent..

No Disrespecting To Rohit or his Talent.. He is great player. But when the consistancy is really poor.

 

[babajee]

Interested what you think about Misbah. Elaborate please.

Persistence with TTFs, especially in LOI. Left nothing for the future.

 

[barah_admi]

I agree on all points except for the Sarfraz bit. I think Azhar Ali would be a better pick as test captain and I'm honestly not sold on Sarfraz being the best keeper Pakistan have to offer. Add to that, his batting is all about getting flashy 15s and 20s and then getting out.

I don't follow enough domestic cricket so I can't say who would be a better keeper and I need to watch some more PSL to see who the Pakistani keepers are but surely theres gotta be someone more athletic? Then again, the standard of keeping the world over has decreased but their batting has become key (see Bairstow), so Pak may want to go in that direction.

Other than that, great post.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Misbah is the best Pakistani captain and an absolute gentleman I have seen. Never got to see Imran, but he is undoubtedly the best Pakistani captain ever. Every person has a different outlook of how a team should play. For example, Bazz and Michael Clarke believed in all out attacking approach on even the slowest of surfaces. Pup believed in playing to their strengths rather than conditions, he believed in attack and pace. He even went in with 4 pacers and one spinner on a typical Indian dry wicket. Just like that there are things you can't change about a person on how he is comfortable. Misbah, sort of guilty for his outlook in that he believed in consolidating first and attacking at the end. It won us a lot of matches and lost us a lot as well. But to be honest, his cricketing brain in regards to reading the conditions and utilizing his bowlers and field placement is among the very best I have seen. Only Dhoni has been a better one when it comes to LOIs. Otherwise Misbah in Tests has been a beast. He was able to win games with the likes Wahab, Irfan, Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali and Ehsan Adil out of which I only consider Ifran as a genuine international class bowler.

As a batsman, he was limited, yes, which is one of the reasons why he was never able to go bang bang in the last 15 overs of the match. Another weakness of him was being unable to go for longer after resuming batting on the consecutive day overnight. To blame him for Pakistani cricketing troubles is tripe.

 

[in_cutter]

I agree apart from Misbah. Ruined our cricket.

Good points made, a good post overall

Yea it’s all Misbah’s fault..Misbah’s fault that there is no Int’l cricket in Pakistan..Misbah’s fault that the domestic structure is a mess..Misbah’s fault that there is not much batting talent in Pak (most are hyped up anyway).

TTF’s like Hafeez are still being selected even though Misbah has retired..he must be using his telepathic powers to make the selectors pick him..it’s Misbah’s fault that most Pakistani batsmen are domestic bullies.

The moral of the story? Everything is Misbah’s fault.

 

[theariezman]

I cannot agree with Point 5.

How many matches we have played since Champions Trophy 2017.
and what after PSL??
Its like drops in ocean.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Agreed on all points
Misbah was a Legend and greatest for me as haven't watched Imran, too much unnecessary criticism for Misbah for no reason.

Exactly! Soon enough people will blame global warming on Misbah as well. One of the best captains of Pakistan history and his records prove that.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I cannot agree with Point 5.

How many matches we have played since Champions Trophy 2017.
and what after PSL??
Its like drops in ocean.

We have played decent amount of matches and have won some and lost some. But the situation is much better than a couple of years ago under Azhar.

 

[theariezman]

I think you could do the maths....even Sri Lanka played double the matches than us since champions trophy 2017.

The stats includes Test/ODI/T20

We have played decent amount of matches and have won some and lost some. But the situation is much better than a couple of years ago under Azhar.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I think you could do the maths....even Sri Lanka played double the matches than us since champions trophy 2017.

The stats includes Test/ODI/T20

View attachment 79645

What's your point? My 5th point was about how we have introduced quality young players into the side fairly recently. I'm not saying that we have played alot of matches. All i'm saying is we aren't regressing anymore like we were around 2015 and the results have mostly indicated that.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Persistence with TTFs, especially in LOI. Left nothing for the future.

Misbah preferred to go with some TTFs and older, experienced players but not all of it was his fault. He wasn't provided with fresh young blood by the selectors.

 

[PakLFC]

"Pakistan is the most talented side in Cricket, their is a lot of talent in the country" we are repeatedly told!! Well, prove it! I didn't see much talent in the recent U-19 tournament. Most Pakistanis blindly believe in everything Imran Khan says not bothering to trouble their own head. IK also made the dumbest comment of Inzi being better then Teenda. There is talent in every country, we don't know how to polish ours that is the difference.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Yea it’s all Misbah’s fault..Misbah’s fault that there is no Int’l cricket in Pakistan..Misbah’s fault that the domestic structure is a mess..Misbah’s fault that there is not much batting talent in Pak (most are hyped up anyway).

TTF’s like Hafeez are still being selected even though Misbah has retired..he must be using his telepathic powers to make the selectors pick him..it’s Misbah’s fault that most Pakistani batsmen are domestic bullies.

The moral of the story? Everything is Misbah’s fault.

#MisbahsFault should be brought back. Some amusing stuff came from that trend.

On a serious note, he's been the biggest scapegoat of pakistan cricket of the past 15 years. It highlights the problem with Pakistani society where silence in response to derogatory comments about one's self is mistaken with "foolishness" or "buzdali". The man had nerves of steel, and he didn't let unnecessary rambling get to him, which is why he never gave a damn about his haters. Glad he retired on his own terms and didn't give in to the pressure stirred by the media. A true soldier.

 

[Greenstorm]

I don't agree with your first point but rest is spot on.

Misbah was good in tests although I believe he should have retired after England tour. Our performances in LOIs were poor under Misbah. Now some (if not majority) of the blame for those poor performances should go to the captain at that time.

 

[barah_admi]

Another myth Id like to debunk: Pakistan are a precocious, unpredictable side. This decade has been the complete opposite. Until recently (the Aus and NZ tours were the start) Pakistan were a very consistent test side, unbeaten 2010-12 and then 2014-16.

The ODI and T20 sides have since become remarkably consistent and although there was the NZ loss, that came after a long time and in the first 3 matches at least, Pakistan acquitted themselves well. They also made up for it with stunning T20 performances against a top 2 side.

Myth debunked.

 

[ManFan]

"Pakistan is the most talented side in Cricket, their is a lot of talent in the country" we are repeatedly told!! Well, prove it! I didn't see much talent in the recent U-19 tournament. Most Pakistanis blindly believe in everything Imran Khan says not bothering to trouble their own head. IK also made the dumbest comment of Inzi being better then Teenda. There is talent in every country, we don't know how to polish ours that is the difference.

At that time in 2007, Inzamam had more innings which helped his team win than Tendulkar. Of course, Inzi retired that year and Tendulkar played for six more years. Pakistan U19 just made the semi-finals of the recent U19 World Cup. There are players that have impressed but it was mostly due to a lack of good fielding and batting nerves that led to their loss against the eventual winners. I remember a lot of people criticizing IK for suggesting Sarfraz to bat first if he won the toss in the CT. He didn't win the toss but PAK batted first and we all know what happened.

 

[WengerOut]

At that time in 2007, Inzamam had more innings which helped his team win than Tendulkar. Of course, Inzi retired that year and Tendulkar played for six more years. Pakistan U19 just made the semi-finals of the recent U19 World Cup. There are players that have impressed but it was mostly due to a lack of good fielding and batting nerves that led to their loss against the eventual winners. I remember a lot of people criticizing IK for suggesting Sarfraz to bat first if he won the toss in the CT. He didn't win the toss but PAK batted first and we all know what happened.

Very true. Tendulkar was playing as a freelancer and therefore his runs were discounted for India and thereby dint help .

 

[ManFan]

Very true. Tendulkar was playing as a freelancer and therefore his runs were discounted for India and thereby dint help .

Perhaps only during his tennis elbow injury. Otherwise, the statistics don't take into account the level of the team as a whole when measuring match-winners. Otherwise, Brian Lara of the 90's would have been the greatest match-winner of all time, undisputed.

 

[A-1]

Misbah the test captain was the greatest thing to have happened to Pakistan cricket. Anyone that disagree has an agenda against him. Took a team that could barely bat/bowl to the height of test cricket. Showed the world that Pakistan cricket is alive and kicking. Spot fixing humiliation left us in a turmoil but he stood tall and lead with honor and dignity

Misbah the ODI captain (along with waqar) was the worst thing to have happened to Pakistan LOI cricket but we had no choice. He literally destroyed the team with his constant negative approach and constant selection of TTF. The excuse that we were 4/5 down when he came in, well he was the captain, he refused to bench his pals. Drop those players that cant play.

Tell you what, when I saw azhar,shafiq and misbah tap fulltoss for singles, I just lost it with LOI team. It was unbearable to watch. The impact has been so devastating that apart from the Champion league final, I haven't watched a single Pak LOI fixture after that.

 

[WengerOut]

Perhaps only during his tennis elbow injury. Otherwise, the statistics don't take into account the level of the team as a whole when measuring match-winners. Otherwise, Brian Lara of the 90's would have been the greatest match-winner of all time, undisputed.

C'mon man . Lara had ATG bowlers until 2000. Tendulkar dint even had that. Carrying a below avg team on his shoulders , millions of people counting on him and he single handedly taking on Aus is hard stuff man. It that Lara coming from a relatively low key nation , dint have the media hype and people like to support underdogs. Both were superb players.

 

[ManFan]

Misbah the test captain was the greatest thing to have happened to Pakistan cricket. Anyone that disagree has an agenda against him. Took a team that could barely bat/bowl to the height of test cricket. Showed the world that Pakistan cricket is alive and kicking. Spot fixing humiliation left us in a turmoil but he stood tall and lead with honor and dignity

Misbah the ODI captain (along with waqar) was the worst thing to have happened to Pakistan LOI cricket but we had no choice. He literally destroyed the team with his constant negative approach and constant selection of TTF. The excuse that we were 4/5 down when he came in, well he was the captain, he refused to bench his pals. Drop those players that cant play.

Tell you what, when I saw azhar,shafiq and misbah tap fulltoss for singles, I just lost it with LOI team. It was unbearable to watch. The impact has been so devastating that apart from the Champion league final, I haven't watched a single Pak LOI fixture after that.

Misbah was a great Test captain. Even when his game of attrition failed, he was competitive which the flair and glare of the 90's couldn't achieve.

 

[ManFan]

C'mon man . Lara had ATG bowlers until 2000. Tendulkar dint even had that. Carrying a below avg team on his shoulders , millions of people counting on him and he single handedly taking on Aus is hard stuff man. It that Lara coming from a relatively low key nation , dint have the media hype and people like to support underdogs. Both were superb players.

Lara had ONLY bowlers. That too being atleast 30~ when he debuted. Ambrose retired at 36 and Walsh at 38. Lara debuted in 90' but wasn't a regular until the 92-93 AUS series. But Lara had no support of even a Kambli or Mongia and after the two ATG bowlers retired, no more bowlers either.

 

[WengerOut]

Lara had ONLY bowlers. That too being atleast 30~ when he debuted. Ambrose retired at 36 and Walsh at 38. Lara debuted in 90' but wasn't a regular until the 92-93 AUS series. But Lara had no support of even a Kambli or Mongia and after the two ATG bowlers retired, no more bowlers either.

Lets not go ahead and derail on this subjective thing. Cheers

 

[OoparCut]

Biggest myth is Pakistani ke har gali nukkar mei talent koot koot kar bhara hua hai..

How about the one about phaast bowling phactory?


The foreign coach buying into this particular myth cost Pakistan a home series loss against Sri Lanka.

 

[ManFan]

How about the one about phaast bowling phactory?


The foreign coach buying into this particular myth cost Pakistan a home series loss against Sri Lanka.

No. It was the foreign coach's own experience with SA and AUS that led him to that decision. Otherwise, no coach, be foreign or local, would have believed that the likes of an injured Amir, rookies Abbas and Hasan (both whom don't cross the 150kph mark) and an aging and overweight Yasir could perform even against that SL team in the UAE. Rather, they would have picked another spinner to decrease Yasir's workload and help give the fast bowlers ample rest time.

 

[Gubol123]

1) Misbah wasn't a selfish player or a selfish captain. He was perhaps the greatest statesman for the country since Imran Khan and he always played for the team. He played according to the situation and he did his best when players around him would give their wickets away. He wasn't the ideal modern-day batsman, but clearly the best option we had till the 2015 world cup to lead the side with dignity and grace. His legacy extends alot more than just performances on the field, as his ability to nurture the side and recover from the dark depths of 2010 is something that we all should be grateful for to this day.

2) Sarfaraz is the best captain for this Pakistani side. He has issues with his captaincy like shouting at players too much but that doesn't warrant being kicked out of the team like some posters might say. People need to think of viable replacements if they want to kick Sarfaraz out. As for now, there is no one that has been groomed to replace Sarfaraz.

3) Babar Azam isn't a hack and short boundaries, flat pitches and weak bowling line-ups aren't the reason for his success. He has overachieved significantly for his age and he will hopefully keep doing so in the future. The only thing he lacks is a top-notch power game which he should develop after gaining some muscle mass over the years. His short ball problems will also disappear as he will be able to pull more easily. He has had to carry the team largely by himself and serve as the anchor since his debut, so he deserves full credit for that. As for scoring heavily against weaker sides like SL and WI, there is no harm in capitalizing against weaker opposition as much as possible. He hasn't been a dud in anyway against stronger oppositions like many posters would like us to believe. His temperament in clutch situations will get better overtime as he grows even more confident in his own ability.

4) PSL is going along nicely and despite most matches not being very high scoring games, we are still witnessing very good cricket being played. What PSL doesn't provide by missing out on high scorring games, it makes up for with extremely close finishes, just like last night super over finale. It's been a good contest between bat and ball, and players like Hussain Talat are surely to be selected for the national team purely because of his run scoring ability on pitches that don't aid him massively.

5) Pakistani cricket isn't regressing anymore like it was around the 2015 world cup. We aren't resorting to ttfs like Shafiq and all the akmals and have been able to unearth world class players like Shadab Khan, Babar Azam, Hasan Ali and Fakhar Zaman. We still have some problems in the team and 2 to 3 spots are up for grabs but we have a team nucleus that can go supernova when required.

When you debunk a myth you need to provide some facts and figures. You are just giving your own opinion..

 

[The_Odd_One]

Misbah did more good than harm. Misbah did not like taking risk. He relied on the same group of players. That was his weakness but overall Misbah is the 3rd best captain Pakistan ever had after Imran and Mushtaq.

 

[sshakir411]

One big myth is that a structured cricket environment will work in Pakistan and yield better players...the 2000s are an example of when numerous board chairmen tried to revamp domestic cricket and introduce new systems...only for our team to be struggling with players who are TTFs or just not good enough for the intl. level right now.

Pakistan cricket's biggest strength has been the introduction of amazingly talented players who were picked out of no where based on ability and flare. Wasim, Waqar, Amir, etc...are all examples of the best we've produced and who came in from no where.

The attempts at making a structured environment work failed because many things are dysfunctional in Pakistan and things never go as planned on all levels. The right way for Pakistan cricket is to develop an ecosystem that allows players to be picked out of no where based on ability but provides them the grooming and guidance they need to become top players.

 

[OoparCut]

No. It was the foreign coach's own experience with SA and AUS that led him to that decision. Otherwise, no coach, be foreign or local, would have believed that the likes of an injured Amir, rookies Abbas and Hasan (both whom don't cross the 150kph mark) and an aging and overweight Yasir could perform even against that SL team in the UAE. Rather, they would have picked another spinner to decrease Yasir's workload and help give the fast bowlers ample rest time.

What was the Pakistani Captain doing in that case, especially after the 1st test. Sleeping?

 

[OoparCut]

One big myth is that a structured cricket environment will work in Pakistan and yield better players...the 2000s are an example of when numerous board chairmen tried to revamp domestic cricket and introduce new systems...only for our team to be struggling with players who are TTFs or just not good enough for the intl. level right now.

Pakistan cricket's biggest strength has been the introduction of amazingly talented players who were picked out of no where based on ability and flare. Wasim, Waqar, Amir, etc...are all examples of the best we've produced and who came in from no where.

The attempts at making a structured environment work failed because many things are dysfunctional in Pakistan and things never go as planned on all levels. The right way for Pakistan cricket is to develop an ecosystem that allows players to be picked out of no where based on ability but provides them the grooming and guidance they need to become top players.

So your post is saying what exactly? That you want a structure that randomly tries unknown players?

 

[sshakir411]

So your post is saying what exactly? That you want a structure that randomly tries unknown players?

No. The path to the national team should not be a structured process because of organizational gaps that exist on all levels in the country. Pakistan cricket has always done better when they've introduced young players who were relatively unknown based on pure ability.

 

[Gubol123]

No. The path to the national team should not be a structured process because of organizational gaps that exist on all levels in the country. Pakistan cricket has always done better when they've introduced young players who were relatively unknown based on pure ability.

So instead of closing those "organizational gaps" you want to invest on random youngsters who are picked based on someone's whim?

 

[sshakir411]

So instead of closing those "organizational gaps" you want to invest on random youngsters who are picked based on someone's whim?

When did I say invest in random youngsters? The chance of unknown players making through should be the same as the players coming through a structured set up. Closing down organizational gaps is the long-term goal but it will be decades before that happens just because how things are done in Pakistan.

 

[rhony]

Just the fact that Misbah kept himself fit and waited for his turn for years and then played at his full potential makes me respect the man. Dignified, composed and leading the team during turmoil makes him the 2nd best captain Pakistan has ever had. Agree with other points as well. Pakistan cricket is on the upswing and 1 gun batsman away from being consistent in ODIs.

 

[khanz141]

Misbah did ruin Pakistan limited overs cricket from 2011 - 2015.

Misbah was the reason our players were so timid and fearful of playing attacking cricket. He picked players who would go at 50 strike rates without playing any attacking strokes so they don't get out. I know how a batsmen who is always told to fear not getting out rather than giving them full confidence to play their natural game can lead to failures only.

 

[OoparCut]

Misbah did ruin Pakistan limited overs cricket from 2011 - 2015.

Misbah was the reason our players were so timid and fearful of playing attacking cricket. He picked players who would go at 50 strike rates without playing any attacking strokes so they don't get out. I know how a batsmen who is always told to fear not getting out rather than giving them full confidence to play their natural game can lead to failures only.

I think Misbah is a convenient Bali ka Bakraa for Pakistan fans' frustrations. How is it his fault that his team's batting resources are weak? Its not as if Pakistani batting after Misbah's departure is doing so great is it?

 

[Gubol123]

When did I say invest in random youngsters? The chance of unknown players making through should be the same as the players coming through a structured set up. Closing down organizational gaps is the long-term goal but it will be decades before that happens just because how things are done in Pakistan.

if that is true, then you have no structured setup, not just "Organizational gaps" that you mentioned. That is not clearly the case. Babar is through formal setup and he is doing pretty well for himself

 

[sshakir411]

if that is true, then you have no structured setup, not just "Organizational gaps" that you mentioned. That is not clearly the case. Babar is through formal setup and he is doing pretty well for himself

Your knowledge on Pakistan domestic cricket is limited...there have been numerous attempts to bring structure in to the setup but it has failed to work properly due to the organizational gaps (lack of human capital, political issues, corruption, nepotism, etc..). Babar is the only example...all others to come through the formal set up haven't made a mark (post 2000s). So in essence coming through the formal set up hasn't worked for most players (e.g Shehzad, U Akmal, Anwar Ali, and gang)

 

[Pak Crescent]

I agree with all points. I just think the general fear most have with Babar is related to him not getting to the top of his potential due to a lack of competition - we're all a bit extra harsh on him.

 

[CadPakFan]

Finally, someone how appreciates Misbah for what he did for Pakistan cricket.

 

[AamirWarraich]

Another myth is that we don't have any more fast bowling talent. The real great bowlers only come along once every 10-12 years. Post 2003, we failed to make the most out of a lot of our resources, some of it was down to mismanagement and some of it was down to stupidity of players.

Over past 15 years we have produced Mohammad Aamir and Mohammad Asif, both of whom would be legends by now if they had behaved properly. We produced other bowlers who under proper system with proper coaching, could have thrived. Guys like Junaid Khan, Ehsan Adil, Mohammad Irfan, and Sohail Khan.

We have had to make due with half decent guys like Wahab, Gul, Rana Naveed.

Many of these guys mentioned above would not even have been in the team had the likes of Akhtar, Aamir, and Asif not ruined themselves.
Now we have Hassan Ali who will continue improving Insha Allah, and we can find a couple more guys in the next couple years. Shaheen Afridi especially looks very promising.

 

[PakLFC]

At that time in 2007, Inzamam had more innings which helped his team win than Tendulkar. Of course, Inzi retired that year and Tendulkar played for six more years. Pakistan U19 just made the semi-finals of the recent U19 World Cup. There are players that have impressed but it was mostly due to a lack of good fielding and batting nerves that led to their loss against the eventual winners. I remember a lot of people criticizing IK for suggesting Sarfraz to bat first if he won the toss in the CT. He didn't win the toss but PAK batted first and we all know what happened.

Retiring is a choice most of the time or a player is no longer good enough. Inzi was never better then Teenda, never! Inzi was always under Teenda's massive shadow and that is a fact. Other then perhaps Sarfaraz no U 19 Pak team has ever produced players who have had long and successful careers, I don't remember any. Even today IK often mentions the great talent in Pak that only he seems to see, no one else. His comment years back that Inzi has more time to play shots then Teenda was biased and nonsensical.

"There are players that have impressed but it was mostly due to a lack of good fielding and batting nerves that led to their loss against the eventual winners." Certainly not in the recent U 19 WC, no one impressed me other then a decent pacer whose name doesn't come to mind. Batting and fielding under pressure is what makes a good player! They are not impressive if unable to do that. Problems are the structure and perhaps even school Cricket is no longer being played in Pak. We are talking about upcoming talent here not if Pak should bat first or second. Even I wanted Pak to bat first in the Champions Trophy final, we all know how poor Pak is at chasing targets.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

When you debunk a myth you need to provide some facts and figures. You are just giving your own opinion..

The raw facts regarding all the statements i have given have been talked about and discussed to death in other threads on this forum. I just wanted to create a thread about the most talked about and controversial points about pakistan cricket in one thread. Not interested to reiterate facts again and again.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Finally, someone how appreciates Misbah for what he did for Pakistan cricket.

Sadly we are a very rare breed. Undermining our national heroes excessively seems to be the trend in Pakistan these days.

 

[moghul]

Agree with everything except Misbah, he has been the most selfish captain Pakistan ever had, always put his personal interest ahead of the team. No wonder he was still playing in nation team at 44 and still playing in PSL .

 

[Mr.Q]

I don't agree with point no.4. But not commenting on it here as all of you seem to be happy with it.

But I have a doubt regarding Misbah's captaincy. I don't think he was selfish but how can anyone say that Pakistan cricket progressed under his captaincy? Just asking out of curiousity. I think he developed/brought in a set of batsmen who are basically his clones, which apparently hasn't benefited Pakistan cricket at all.

 

[shariqnoor]

I don't agree with point no.4. But not commenting on it here as all of you seem to be happy with it.

But I have a doubt regarding Misbah's captaincy. I don't think he was selfish but how can anyone say that Pakistan cricket progressed under his captaincy? Just asking out of curiousity. I think he developed/brought in a set of batsmen who are basically his clones, which apparently hasn't benefited Pakistan cricket at all.

Yet when the Pakistan test team goes to bat, you rely on Azhar Ali. What irony.

 

[Mr.Q]

Yet when the Pakistan test team goes to bat, you rely on Azhar Ali. What irony.

Well the problem has been the same test team of slow movers playing ODIs and T20s as well and the standard of batting basically reached the bottom. He failed to inspire the young generation. Ain't it true? Imran inspired not just the young generation but his generation as well . So one should be careful with comparisons.

Things seem to be changing now but this is the post Misbah era.

 

[backfootpunch]

1) Misbah wasn't a selfish player or a selfish captain. He was perhaps the greatest statesman for the country since Imran Khan and he always played for the team. He played according to the situation and he did his best when players around him would give their wickets away. He wasn't the ideal modern-day batsman, but clearly the best option we had till the 2015 world cup to lead the side with dignity and grace. His legacy extends alot more than just performances on the field, as his ability to nurture the side and recover from the dark depths of 2010 is something that we all should be grateful for to this day.

2) Sarfaraz is the best captain for this Pakistani side. He has issues with his captaincy like shouting at players too much but that doesn't warrant being kicked out of the team like some posters might say. People need to think of viable replacements if they want to kick Sarfaraz out. As for now, there is no one that has been groomed to replace Sarfaraz.

3) Babar Azam isn't a hack and short boundaries, flat pitches and weak bowling line-ups aren't the reason for his success. He has overachieved significantly for his age and he will hopefully keep doing so in the future. The only thing he lacks is a top-notch power game which he should develop after gaining some muscle mass over the years. His short ball problems will also disappear as he will be able to pull more easily. He has had to carry the team largely by himself and serve as the anchor since his debut, so he deserves full credit for that. As for scoring heavily against weaker sides like SL and WI, there is no harm in capitalizing against weaker opposition as much as possible. He hasn't been a dud in anyway against stronger oppositions like many posters would like us to believe. His temperament in clutch situations will get better overtime as he grows even more confident in his own ability.

4) PSL is going along nicely and despite most matches not being very high scoring games, we are still witnessing very good cricket being played. What PSL doesn't provide by missing out on high scorring games, it makes up for with extremely close finishes, just like last night super over finale. It's been a good contest between bat and ball, and players like Hussain Talat are surely to be selected for the national team purely because of his run scoring ability on pitches that don't aid him massively.

5) Pakistani cricket isn't regressing anymore like it was around the 2015 world cup. We aren't resorting to ttfs like Shafiq and all the akmals and have been able to unearth world class players like Shadab Khan, Babar Azam, Hasan Ali and Fakhar Zaman. We still have some problems in the team and 2 to 3 spots are up for grabs but we have a team nucleus that can go supernova when required.

If you think so highly of Misbah as a captain then can you honestly say he would have won the CT for Pakistan last year?

He was largely responsible as the leader of the side for the failings in the 2013 CT when the genius decided to pick the worst batting line up Pakistan ever selected for an ICC tournament with the likes of Farhat et al.

In LOIs he was like what Arsene Wenger is to Arsenal right now.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

If you think so highly of Misbah as a captain then can you honestly say he would have won the CT for Pakistan last year?

He was largely responsible as the leader of the side for the failings in the 2013 CT when the genius decided to pick the worst batting line up Pakistan ever selected for an ICC tournament with the likes of Farhat et al.

In LOIs he was like what Arsene Wenger is to Arsenal right now.

If I'm being honest then I don't think Misbah would've won us the CT. But that's not me saying Sarfaraz is a better LOI tactician than Misbah. A large part of the CT is due to individual brilliance from some players. Sarfaraz is certainly a good captain but he has Mickey who has sound knowledge about the game. If Misbah had a coach like Mickey to work with him who was extremely strict with fitness standards and whatnot, then we MIGHT have seen even more success in the Misbah era across formats.

And again, Misbah wasn't the only one to select the 15 man squad across his captaincy. Gone are the days where Imran Khan would go watch young upcoming players in the nets before selecting them in the team. Captains don't perform the roles of selectors anymore and it is up to the selectors to give the captain the best team possible. Misbah would be consulted regarding the selection process, but his role wasn't as big as alot of people believed it to be. Coaches also are able to have their own say in the selection process. A big reason why the likes of Mickey have been good for pak cricket since he has been instrumental in bringing these young players.

 

[backfootpunch]

If I'm being honest then I don't think Misbah would've won us the CT. But that's not me saying Sarfaraz is a better LOI tactician than Misbah. A large part of the CT is due to individual brilliance from some players. Sarfaraz is certainly a good captain but he has Mickey who has sound knowledge about the game. If Misbah had a coach like Mickey to work with him who was extremely strict with fitness standards and whatnot, then we MIGHT have seen even more success in the Misbah era across formats.

And again, Misbah wasn't the only one to select the 15 man squad across his captaincy. Gone are the days where Imran Khan would go watch young upcoming players in the nets before selecting them in the team. Captains don't perform the roles of selectors anymore and it is up to the selectors to give the captain the best team possible. Misbah would be consulted regarding the selection process, but his role wasn't as big as alot of people believed it to be. Coaches also are able to have their own say in the selection process. A big reason why the likes of Mickey have been good for pak cricket since he has been instrumental in bringing these young players.

I agree when you say Sarfraz wasn't necessarily a better tactician - it was the change in mindset and energy that he brought in to the side rallying his players to play a fearless brand of cricket particularly with the bowlers. Misbah on the other hand was passive and ultra defensive in every discipline of the game concerned.

According to Azhar Ali in an interview he would target 260 and rely heavily on the likes of Ajmal (particularly) and Hafeez to defend it. He had no plan B and his default one wasn't great anyway.

When Mickey Arthur came to the coaching role, I didn't see no change from Misbah as a captain for the test side if you ask me.

As for the selection process I agree that many stakeholders are involved but you wouldn't see a squad or an XI being picked without the captain's approval since it is he who has to decide the players who he wants on the day. For e.g. if you remember Iftikher Ahmed who played in that Oval test 2 years ago, that was Misbah going out of his way to pick a very shoddy substandard batsman but I'm not going to go into the reasons why he selected him.

It's great that Mickey is backing younger players but why do we still see the likes of Hafeez and Malik still in the team? - when he knows they are not the answer for the WC next year.

To conclude I give great credit to Misbah with how he led the side during the transition after the spot fixing scandal but it was time to go when his team could only muster a draw against a very ordinary Zimbabwe team in 2013.

 

[Ocelot]

Biggest myth is Pakistani ke har gali nukkar mei talent koot koot kar bhara hua hai..

It was true 20 years ago, not anymore. Now cricket is a dead sports in Pakistan.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

According to Azhar Ali in an interview he would target 260 and rely heavily on the likes of Ajmal (particularly) and Hafeez to defend it. He had no plan B and his default one wasn't great anyway.

Yes i agree. Azhar was a poor captain for the majority of his tenure.

When Mickey Arthur came to the coaching role, I didn't see no change from Misbah as a captain for the test side if you ask me.

Probably because Misbah knows what's best for the test team. If Misbah was still the ODI captain, I would rather have Mickey have a bigger say in terms of what goes on. But tests is Misbah's domain due to the success he's had over the years. I know we lost in Australia but other than that he has had an amazing stint for the most part.

As for the selection process I agree that many stakeholders are involved but you wouldn't see a squad or an XI being picked without the captain's approval since it is he who has to decide the players who he wants on the day. For e.g. if you remember Iftikher Ahmed who played in that Oval test 2 years ago, that was Misbah going out of his way to pick a very shoddy substandard batsman but I'm not going to go into the reasons why he selected him.

I don't know why they selected Ifti either. Probably because he was having a good domestic season or something. Poor from all those involved including misbah.

It's great that Mickey is backing younger players but why do we still see the likes of Hafeez and Malik still in the team? - when he knows they are not the answer for the WC next year.

I agree that Malik and Hafeez shouldn't be regulars in the team but you have got to hand it to them. Just when it seems like they are unable to perform and keep up with younger players they find a way to impress. Both have had couple decent knocks in the PSL

To conclude I give great credit to Misbah with how he led the side during the transition after the spot fixing scandal but it was time to go when his team could only muster a draw against a very ordinary Zimbabwe team in 2013.

I can't disagree with this enough. His biggest achievements came after that very Zimbabwe tour. Winning test series against Aus and England in the 2014-15 season, drawing the test series against England which was arguably one of the best test series in the past 5 years etc. Him giving up the test captaincy after the test series draw against Zimbabwe is akin to saying Smith should've given up the test captaincy after they could only muster up a draw in the series in 2017. Both have been great captains for their respective teams. You have off days when you can't play well as a team, but that doesn't mean you rush to conclusions and play around with the captaincy.

 

[backfootpunch]

Yes i agree. Azhar was a poor captain for the majority of his tenure.



Probably because Misbah knows what's best for the test team. If Misbah was still the ODI captain, I would rather have Mickey have a bigger say in terms of what goes on. But tests is Misbah's domain due to the success he's had over the years. I know we lost in Australia but other than that he has had an amazing stint for the most part.





I don't know why they selected Ifti either. Probably because he was having a good domestic season or something. Poor from all those involved including misbah.




I agree that Malik and Hafeez shouldn't be regulars in the team but you have got to hand it to them. Just when it seems like they are unable to perform and keep up with younger players they find a way to impress. Both have had couple decent knocks in the PSL




I can't disagree with this enough. His biggest achievements came after that very Zimbabwe tour. Winning test series against Aus and England in the 2014-15 season, drawing the test series against England which was arguably one of the best test series in the past 5 years etc. Him giving up the test captaincy after the test series draw against Zimbabwe is akin to saying Smith should've given up the test captaincy after they could only muster up a draw in the series in 2017. Both have been great captains for their respective teams. You have off days when you can't play well as a team, but that doesn't mean you rush to conclusions and play around with the captaincy.

Misbah was a good captain in UAE tests I agree with that but away from home it was only the Channel 9 commentary team based in Australia that were frank enough to really say it how it was.

Also his batting on faster wickets isn't a good one, so it would have been in the best mid to long term interests of the team to have seen a better test batsman take his place. Now with Misbah and YK retiring at the same time Pakistan's batting is doomed for at least a few years to come. This transition could have been handled a lot better if they retired at different times of their career. YK being the superior batter should have retired last.

In England his captaincy in the Edgbaston test is what brought the hosts back into it - like how is he going to resort to such defensive fields? (after like 10 overs following a 103 run lead). Yes the batsman were awful on the last day and bottled it but from a position of ascendancy you could see Misbah was settling for just a draw - which pretty much sums up his leadership style particularly away from home.

I would like to have seen Younis Khan skipper the side from 2013 onwards and the fact he wanted the role is because I think deep down he knew he was the best man for the job and I'm pretty sure he would have been more lot more successful since he was a far better tactician and as a more attack minded skipper would have at the very least saved a lot of the humiliation they got in Aus, NZ and SA (all whitewashes).

Large part of Pakistan's 2009 WT20 success is accredited to how he led the side on the field. He also had enormous respect from that 2010s Pak team especially from Shafiq and Azhar Ali, so the players would want to succeed for him. Lastly, he would have given more opportunity to younger players and I cannot stress the importance of this because being a successful captain shouldn't be about thinking about the present but also having a vision to build a quality team in the future, like IK did yet there at least 2 posters on here that claim their hero Misbah was the best test captain Pakistan ever had.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Sadly we are a very rare breed. Undermining our national heroes excessively seems to be the trend in Pakistan these days.

Yea, he managed to bring pride back to the badge after the fixing saga.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Misbah was a good captain in UAE tests I agree with that but away from home it was only the Channel 9 commentary team based in Australia that were frank enough to really say it how it was.

Also his batting on faster wickets isn't a good one, so it would have been in the best mid to long term interests of the team to have seen a better test batsman take his place. Now with Misbah and YK retiring at the same time Pakistan's batting is doomed for at least a few years to come. This transition could have been handled a lot better if they retired at different times of their career. YK being the superior batter should have retired last.

In England his captaincy in the Edgbaston test is what brought the hosts back into it - like how is he going to resort to such defensive fields? (after like 10 overs following a 103 run lead). Yes the batsman were awful on the last day and bottled it but from a position of ascendancy you could see Misbah was settling for just a draw - which pretty much sums up his leadership style particularly away from home.

I would like to have seen Younis Khan skipper the side from 2013 onwards and the fact he wanted the role is because I think deep down he knew he was the best man for the job and I'm pretty sure he would have been more lot more successful since he was a far better tactician and as a more attack minded skipper would have at the very least saved a lot of the humiliation they got in Aus, NZ and SA (all whitewashes).

Large part of Pakistan's 2009 WT20 success is accredited to how he led the side on the field. He also had enormous respect from that 2010s Pak team especially from Shafiq and Azhar Ali, so the players would want to succeed for him. Lastly, he would have given more opportunity to younger players and I cannot stress the importance of this because being a successful captain shouldn't be about thinking about the present but also having a vision to build a quality team in the future, like IK did yet there at least 2 posters on here that claim their hero Misbah was the best test captain Pakistan ever had.

It is unreasonable for the Channel nine commentators to say Misbah wasn't a good captain. The guy has had successful tours all around the world except Australia in different formats. He was by no means perfect but the best tactician and best team man during his captaincy tenure. He did make alot of questionable choices in his tenure, including the Australia tour, but he knew how to lead the team accordingly.


If we are to judge Misbah's value as a player and captain, then look no further than how the team went down after his ODI and Test retirements. We were hammered by Bangladesh in ODIs and whitewashed by SL in tests. I seriously doubt if any of those things would've happened if he had been playing. I still to this day believe that he retired prematurely from the ODI side and that he could've gone on to play for another year.

 

[backfootpunch]

It is unreasonable for the Channel nine commentators to say Misbah wasn't a good captain. The guy has had successful tours all around the world except Australia in different formats. He was by no means perfect but the best tactician and best team man during his captaincy tenure. He did make alot of questionable choices in his tenure, including the Australia tour, but he knew how to lead the team accordingly.

They can only go by what they see and just because their job is to be diplomatic doesn't mean they can ignore it either.

If we are to judge Misbah's value as a player and captain, then look no further than how the team went down after his ODI and Test retirements. We were hammered by Bangladesh in ODIs and whitewashed by SL in tests. I seriously doubt if any of those things would've happened if he had been playing. I still to this day believe that he retired prematurely from the ODI side and that he could've gone on to play for another year.

I would agree that if Misbah was captain for the SL series, there would have been a change in fortunes as he would have played a second spinner - Sarfraz and Mickey got this horribly wrong and failed to learn from their mistake after the 1st test in Abu Dhabi.

As for the whitewash in Bangladesh, looking back at it now I can't say this was a surprise since they were beaten by a team that went on a golden run from 2015 WC cup then beat Pak, SA and Ind in successive home ODI series.

With or without Misbah I highly doubt the result would have been any different. But what matters is if Pakistan were to visit Bangladesh today they would defeat them quite easily and that's to no thanks of Misbah as a lot of these new and younger players came after him, so to say he retired prematurely by a year is a statement I strongly disagree with. I think he should have retired from ODIs after that farce of an innings in Mohali.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The greatest myth debunked is simply the fact that money does not equate to success.

Proud of you Pakistan!

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

I would agree that if Misbah was captain for the SL series, there would have been a change in fortunes as he would have played a second spinner - Sarfraz and Mickey got this horribly wrong and failed to learn from their mistake after the 1st test in Abu Dhabi.

As for the whitewash in Bangladesh, looking back at it now I can't say this was a surprise since they were beaten by a team that went on a golden run from 2015 WC cup then beat Pak, SA and Ind in successive home ODI series.

With or without Misbah I highly doubt the result would have been any different. But what matters is if Pakistan were to visit Bangladesh today they would defeat them quite easily and that's to no thanks of Misbah as a lot of these new and younger players came after him, so to say he retired prematurely by a year is a statement I strongly disagree with. I think he should have retired from ODIs after that farce of an innings in Mohali.

Let's say that Misbah had retired after the Mohali innings. Who would have been captain instead of Misbah after that period? The fact that we had no other viable options for captaincy post 2011 world cup was enough reason to pick Misbah as a captain. Afridi was never a good option for long term captaincy because of his erratic and volatile performances, while YK during his later years was never good enough to make the ODI side on merit.