New Ajit Agarkar generation - Musa Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Mohammad Hasnain, Naseem Shah, Amad Butt

[Usman Chadda]

Wait so you're saying Naseem is bowling badly.

Based on T20 cricket. Naseem might be over-rated, but he should not be clubbed alongside Musa, Hasnain or Akif. Speaks volumes about this poster's cricketing intellect.

 

[iniqbal223]

Based on T20 cricket. Naseem might be over-rated, but he should not be clubbed alongside Musa, Hasnain or Akif. Speaks volumes about this poster's cricketing intellect.

If you see the original post , you would realize I used words such as "except Naseem's 1/2 performances". ..

 

[iniqbal223]

Wait so you're saying Naseem is bowling badly.

I said they still have a long way to go, be it Naseem/Musa/Hasnain.. And what ever we saw of them they are leaking lots of runs and this reminds me of Agarkar

 

[iniqbal223]

To check who I was talking about, please see the below :

 

[Usman Chadda]

If you see the original post , you would realize I used words such as "except Naseem's 1/2 performances". ..

Naseem has had the chance for '1/2 performances'. Your post would have carried some worth had you not lumped him with the others.

All said and done, we need to support these players. Subjecting them to this undue criticism at this age will destroy their confidence. You want to vent your frustration, take it out on the two aspects where Pakistan cricket has zero output right now - spin bowling and power hitting.

 

[iniqbal223]

Naseem has had the chance for '1/2 performances'. Your post would have carried some worth had you not lumped him with the others.

All said and done, we need to support these players. Subjecting them to this undue criticism at this age will destroy their confidence. You want to vent your frustration, take it out on the two aspects where Pakistan cricket has zero output right now - spin bowling and power hitting.

How come this categorized as criticism? Instead this is a shortcoming which we are seeing in these bowlers.

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

To check who I was talking about, please see the below :

View attachment 99870

once again who is he? what has he done? averages 47 in test cricket.naseem is already way better than whoever this trundler is

 

[Mesozoic]

once again who is he? what has he done? averages 47 in test cricket.naseem is already way better than whoever this trundler is

That trundler helped India win a Test in Australia and helped us draw the series, a feat which even your ATGs couldn't achieve.

Lol at Naseem already better.

 

[HydratedTurnip]

Such blasphemy to have Naseem Shah in this list
The boy has several times more potential than '7 ducks' Agarkar

 

[Buzurg Khan]

I think judging some of these bowlers so early is living in a world where every young bowler is compared to a teenage Mohammad Amir. Those types of break-throughs at that age are extremely rare anywhere. Shaheen is the closest we have had to that in a decade.

In places like Australia which have a good track record of producing fine fast bowlers, most come up through the domestic ranks and most international and top-league debuts aren't handed out in mid to late teens. This gives them time to gain a lot more experience than someone like Hasnain or even Naseem in limited overs. These guys are often learning the basics at a much higher competitive level than their peers elsewhere and it shows. Hasnain has progressed remarkably over the course of a year. He still struggles to bowl 4 good overs but he's leaps from where he was a year ago. Remains to be seen if he gets any better or not. Same with the others. Too early to say.

Also, such exposure so early might not be good for all of them. Seems like the case with Musa.

 

[Danyaalr01]

I said they still have a long way to go, be it Naseem/Musa/Hasnain.. And what ever we saw of them they are leaking lots of runs and this reminds me of Agarkar

Naseem only leaked runs in 1 game this PSL.

 

[Titan24]

I think judging some of these bowlers so early is living in a world where every young bowler is compared to a teenage Mohammad Amir. Those types of break-throughs at that age are extremely rare anywhere. Shaheen is the closest we have had to that in a decade.

You are correct but problem with many posters is that they confuse the formats. Amir while did well in T20s at the start but he had an avg of 41 in his first 7 tests. Naseem already has a better start in tests then him in his first 3-4 tests.

Also unlike Amir, Naseem has mainly played FC cricket now and not much white ball cricket.

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

That trundler helped India win a Test in Australia and helped us draw the series, a feat which even your ATGs couldn't achieve.

Lol at Naseem already better.

I m not interested in knowing this trundler's so called achievement.He averages 47 in test cricket that's enough for me and what does India know about fast bowling.The country of trundlers.

 

[Mesozoic]

I m not interested in knowing this trundler's so called achievement.He averages 47 in test cricket that's enough for me and what does India know about fast bowling.The country of trundlers.

Would rather be a country of trundlers with more achievements than a land of phasht bowlers with less.

 

[Third Man]

Hasnain seems to confuse me, the speed gun tells us he is 92mph, but the batsman treat him like an 82mph bowler. He just doesn't look quick to me.

I have definitely noticed this. His shorter deliveries especially seem very easy to hit and batsmen seem to have a lot of time against them. Naseem's bouncers, by contrast, are very sharp and seem to hurry the batsmen.

 

[Grunge101]

Agarkar and Naseem?....really?

 

[iniqbal223]

Would rather be a country of trundlers with more achievements than a land of phasht bowlers with less.

Looks like exposure for [MENTION=147605]Invincible Gujjar[/MENTION] is limited to only domestic cricket and PSL watching..Even when the fact is he bowled consistently 135-145 range. He said it to be trundler..I laugh at some of these comments where they have already touted Naseem as next best.. He might again take wickets against Bangladesh, but real test will come this year in Asia Cup/T20 and in England . Plus knowing PCB, I will be surprised if any of these 4/5 bowlers will end up playing more than 200 games for Pakistan..You will be served again the likes of 35+ years old fast bowlers

Wahab made his debut in 2010, still he is struggling to play 100 games
Gul faded away without even notice
Hasan Ali is no where close to what he was (even when he did not have injury)
Only Shaheen looks like a prospect for long run..

 

[tyron_woodley]

Looks like exposure for [MENTION=147605]Invincible Gujjar[/MENTION] is limited to only domestic cricket and PSL watching..Even when the fact is he bowled consistently 135-145 range. He said it to be trundler..I laugh at some of these comments where they have already touted Naseem as next best.. He might again take wickets against Bangladesh, but real test will come this year in Asia Cup/T20 and in England . Plus knowing PCB, I will be surprised if any of these 4/5 bowlers will end up playing more than 200 games for Pakistan..You will be served again the likes of 35+ years old fast bowlers

Wahab made his debut in 2010, still he is struggling to play 100 games
Gul faded away without even notice
Hasan Ali is no where close to what he was (even when he did not have injury)
Only Shaheen looks like a prospect for long run..

rahat ali
junaid khan
mohammed irfan
imran khan snr
bilal asif


anyway pakistan shouldn't speak too soon.

funny thing is none barring umar gul was fast medium. umar actually bowled the same speeds as agarkar who easily clocked between 138-145 in TESTSSSS.

irfan could barely bowl more than 10 overs that's why he never played test cricket. He conserved himself. He is weak.

in saying that shaheen is legit. Quality world class talent.

naseem - jury is still out.

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

Looks like exposure for [MENTION=147605]Invincible Gujjar[/MENTION] is limited to only domestic cricket and PSL watching..Even when the fact is he bowled consistently 135-145 range. He said it to be trundler..I laugh at some of these comments where they have already touted Naseem as next best.. He might again take wickets against Bangladesh, but real test will come this year in Asia Cup/T20 and in England . Plus knowing PCB, I will be surprised if any of these 4/5 bowlers will end up playing more than 200 games for Pakistan..You will be served again the likes of 35+ years old fast bowlers

Wahab made his debut in 2010, still he is struggling to play 100 games
Gul faded away without even notice
Hasan Ali is no where close to what he was (even when he did not have injury)
Only Shaheen looks like a prospect for long run..

What do you know about cricket? You are comparing a trundler who is unknown to some exciting actual fast bowler who are fast not any Indian trundler.I can only laugh at your knowledge.chal kamm naal kamm Rakh hunn

 

[ManFan]

Ajit Agarkar in his prime is not comparable with Shaheen or Naseem’s potential. That is the key and main problem of this thread; a comparison of a past bowler and a few emerging ones.

A fluke-spell in Australia does little to argue against a bowling average of 47.

He was decent in ODI’s with an average of 28 but 288 wickets after 191 matches showcases a poor output.

These new Pakistani pacers might not be good enough to average 30 on Test or ODI’s but as of now, they are worth more than Agarkar ever was because they have an upside.

 

[tyron_woodley]

What do you know about cricket? You are comparing a trundler who is unknown to some exciting actual fast bowler who are fast not any Indian trundler.I can only laugh at your knowledge.chal kamm naal kamm Rakh hunn

trundler was as fast as umar gul. He was even better than umar gul in odi. Go check the record in odi.

what has umar gul ever done vs a prime Australian team rofl.

 

[hur rizvi]

trundler was as fast as umar gul. He was even better than umar gul in odi. Go check the record in odi.

what has umar gul ever done vs a prime Australian team rofl.

Gul himself was a trundler other than 2007-10 period when he was consistently 140+

 

[Bigboii]

Looks like exposure for [MENTION=147605]Invincible Gujjar[/MENTION] is limited to only domestic cricket and PSL watching..Even when the fact is he bowled consistently 135-145 range. He said it to be trundler..I laugh at some of these comments where they have already touted Naseem as next best.. He might again take wickets against Bangladesh, but real test will come this year in Asia Cup/T20 and in England . Plus knowing PCB, I will be surprised if any of these 4/5 bowlers will end up playing more than 200 games for Pakistan..You will be served again the likes of 35+ years old fast bowlers

Wahab made his debut in 2010, still he is struggling to play 100 games
Gul faded away without even notice
Hasan Ali is no where close to what he was (even when he did not have injury)
Only Shaheen looks like a prospect for long run..

Honestly man I don't care about naseems t20 performances maybe Odis but definitely tests

 

[iniqbal223]

trundler was as fast as umar gul. He was even better than umar gul in odi. Go check the record in odi.

what has umar gul ever done vs a prime Australian team rofl.

+ Amir of today ( bowling like a trundler these days)
+ Hasan Ali (after 2017 CT fluke bowling, only getting spanked for last 2 years, made claim of taking 10 wickets in an ODI against India. More importantly, entire team could not take 1 wicket..)
+ Wahab (Played for a decade , somehow has 115 ODI wickets)

Forget about Naseem/Hasnain etc. who will be exposed against good teams like they did against Australia recently. Your best answer is Cheema/Rahat Ali/ Tanvir Ahmed/ Sohail Tanvir (Now that's a force of slow trundlers to reckon with..)

 

[iniqbal223]

Honestly man I don't care about naseems t20 performances maybe Odis but definitely tests

I also want them to succeed, but the way these guys are bowling, looks like they don't use brains. This does not come with experience but with a common sense.

 

[iniqbal223]

trundler was as fast as umar gul. He was even better than umar gul in odi. Go check the record in odi.

what has umar gul ever done vs a prime Australian team rofl.

Umar Gul was good bowler along with Asif who was exceptional, but PCB system lost them. I blame Asif as well for his stupidness.

Good examples of trundlers of less than Munaf Patel level are :

Sohail Tanvir/Tanvir Ahmed/Cheema/Sohail Khan/Rahat Ali/Imran Khan Jr./ Mohd. Irfan/ Hammad Azam/ Junaid Khan/Ehsan Adil/ Mohammad Talha

Irony after Wasim & Waqar these were the Phaaasht bowlers , and people like [MENTION=147605]Invincible Gujjar[/MENTION] are shy to even know the reality, and saying some one trundler who was not even trundler..

 

[tyron_woodley]

+ Amir of today ( bowling like a trundler these days)
+ Hasan Ali (after 2017 CT fluke bowling, only getting spanked for last 2 years, made claim of taking 10 wickets in an ODI against India. More importantly, entire team could not take 1 wicket..)
+ Wahab (Played for a decade , somehow has 115 ODI wickets)

Forget about Naseem/Hasnain etc. who will be exposed against good teams like they did against Australia recently. Your best answer is Cheema/Rahat Ali/ Tanvir Ahmed/ Sohail Tanvir (Now that's a force of slow trundlers to reckon with..)

shaheen is quality. naseem sort of there. Rest I don't see it but maybe they can improve. Ishant had a late career resurgence. Look at him now. He is awesome. But he has height and bounce. Huge advantage in SENA conditons.

Maybe we are a bit too harsh on husnain but I am not seeing skills man. I need to see a searing bouncer, outswing, inswing, cutters, Yorkers. If they can bowl some deadly combination of the aforementioned variations at pace then sure they can become world class.

You don't need to bowl 145 plus like a mor*n 138-142 is more than enough with skills.

If you are really tall then 135-140 is enough. Best bowlers all bowl around 135-142 ish.

 

[iniqbal223]

Ajit Agarkar in his prime is not comparable with Shaheen or Naseem’s potential. That is the key and main problem of this thread; a comparison of a past bowler and a few emerging ones.

A fluke-spell in Australia does little to argue against a bowling average of 47.

He was decent in ODI’s with an average of 28 but 288 wickets after 191 matches showcases a poor output.

These new Pakistani pacers might not be good enough to average 30 on Test or ODI’s but as of now, they are worth more than Agarkar ever was because they have an upside.

And that fluke spell none of all the greats and legendary fast bowlers ables to get in last 23 years in Australia...

288 wickets in 191 games should sound decent, considering in half of the games he played, he came as second or third change bowler

Please remember these lads are with PCB. Had they been with any other board I would have confidence that at some stage in their career they will become good. But with PCB, you know it man.. This system has eaten lot more talented and potential players..

 

[iniqbal223]

shaheen is quality. naseem sort of there. Rest I don't see it but maybe they can improve. Ishant had a late career resurgence. Look at him now. He is awesome. But he has height and bounce. Huge advantage in SENA conditons.

Maybe we are a bit too harsh on husnain but I am not seeing skills man. I need to see a searing bouncer, outswing, inswing, cutters, Yorkers. If they can bowl some deadly combination of the aforementioned variations at pace then sure they can become world class.

You don't need to bowl 145 plus like a mor*n 138-142 is more than enough with skills.

If you are really tall then 135-140 is enough. Best bowlers all bowl around 135-142 ish.

Make sense

 

[Usman Chadda]

And that fluke spell none of all the greats and legendary fast bowlers ables to get in last 23 years in Australia...

288 wickets in 191 games should sound decent, considering in half of the games he played, he came as second or third change bowler

Please remember these lads are with PCB. Had they been with any other board I would have confidence that at some stage in their career they will become good. But with PCB, you know it man.. This system has eaten lot more talented and potential players..

Shaheen and Naseem are the two most exciting pace bowlers we have since Amir. Amir debuted in 2009. There has been a lot of dross between 2009 and 2020, which cannot be attributed to failures of the PCB. Height, pace, bounce and seam, these two lads have the right skills, but we need to be patient.

With regards to this Shaheen vs Naseem that's happening on PP, one bad patch of form from Shaheen, and people will flock to supporting Naseem and put him on a pedestal. That's how fickle Pakistan fans are

 

[Asifnow]

I have been tracking the performances of these young fast bowlers + pseudo fast bowlers, and what I saw these bowlers are tonked by any batsmen. Always see them bowling half volleys, short pitche deliveries. Somehow they take wickets when the batsmen is making a mistake, or mishit. But if you ask me, they all ( except Naseem shah in 1/2 instances) leak runs and give memories of Indian bowling great Ajit Agarkar.

P.S : After playing so many games, I will not say they are inexperienced. They have been given lots of opportunities by management and PCB. I have not seen their peers getting hammered so much any where

Have you seen how many wickets Hasnain has taken this season? And the average?

 

[ManFan]

And that fluke spell none of all the greats and legendary fast bowlers ables to get in last 23 years in Australia...

288 wickets in 191 games should sound decent, considering in half of the games he played, he came as second or third change bowler

Please remember these lads are with PCB. Had they been with any other board I would have confidence that at some stage in their career they will become good. But with PCB, you know it man.. This system has eaten lot more talented and potential players..

Asif has 6-41 (same exact figures) in 2010.

Him coming in as a second and third change bowler does not change the fact that those numbers are quite poor.

Agree with the third point.

 

[iniqbal223]

Asif has 6-41 (same exact figures) in 2010.

Him coming in as a second and third change bowler does not change the fact that those numbers are quite poor.

Agree with the third point.

what about the below numbers, then ?

Shoaib Akhtar had 247 wickets in 163 ODIs @ average of 24
Umar Gul had 179 in 130 OdIs @ average of 29.3
amir had 81 in 61 Odis @ 29.6
Wahab had 115 in 89 @ 34.5

Agarkar had 288 wickets in 191 Odis @ 28.9 average

There is a reason one team (Pakistan) degraded rapidly after 2000s and one team improved significantly after 2000s. Except for 1/2 exceptional bowlers like (Asif and Amir of 2010), what Pakistan got was a line of mediocre bowlers , below average TRUNDLERS in last 20 years (Akhtar was threatening till early 2000s, after that he was in-out and got lot of thrashing as well). Even in that era of 2000s those numbers 288 wickets in 191 ODIs were very good..

 

[iniqbal223]

Shaheen and Naseem are the two most exciting pace bowlers we have since Amir. Amir debuted in 2009. There has been a lot of dross between 2009 and 2020, which cannot be attributed to failures of the PCB. Height, pace, bounce and seam, these two lads have the right skills, but we need to be patient.

With regards to this Shaheen vs Naseem that's happening on PP, one bad patch of form from Shaheen, and people will flock to supporting Naseem and put him on a pedestal. That's how fickle Pakistan fans are

Shaheen for that matter was very different that he is exceptional (at earlier stage he also had failures, but looks like he is improving and getting better. This also attributed to some of the patience shown by previous management of Mickey Arthur who gave enough games to Babar/Shaheen/Hasan Ali to settle down and perform. Though they have some likings but those 2 Shaheen and Babar came good. Current management under Misbah is so fickle minded that 1/2 bad tours and these lads Naseem/Hasnain all will be thrown out of the window and we will see the return of

Sohail Tanvir/Tanvir Ahmed/Cheema/Sohail Khan/Rahat Ali/Imran Khan Jr./ Mohd. Irfan/ Hammad Azam/ Junaid Khan/Ehsan Adil/ Mohammad Talha

 

[iniqbal223]

Have you seen how many wickets Hasnain has taken this season? And the average?

14 wickets with economy of ~ 10

Thats what my earlier point is they got wickets somehow and got thrashed badly..and this reminds me of Agarkar

 

[ManFan]

what about the below numbers, then ?

Shoaib Akhtar had 247 wickets in 163 ODIs @ average of 24
Umar Gul had 179 in 130 OdIs @ average of 29.3
amir had 81 in 61 Odis @ 29.6
Wahab had 115 in 89 @ 34.5

Agarkar had 288 wickets in 191 Odis @ 28.9 average

There is a reason one team (Pakistan) degraded rapidly after 2000s and one team improved significantly after 2000s. Except for 1/2 exceptional bowlers like (Asif and Amir of 2010), what Pakistan got was a line of mediocre bowlers , below average TRUNDLERS in last 20 years (Akhtar was threatening till early 2000s, after that he was in-out and got lot of thrashing as well). Even in that era of 2000s those numbers 288 wickets in 191 ODIs were very good..

All those names you mentioned could bowl at 90 mph or above in their primes. Agarkar was 85mph (that’s being generous) in his prime.

Furthermore, the comparison between Akhtar and Agarkar is laughable due to a massive 5 point difference in ODI and 17 point a difference in Test average.

But nitpicking at numbers will not help anyone’s case with making comparisons.

Agarkar was never treated or thought of as a threat by the opposition. Even Gul, Wahab, and Amir had the respect of the opposition during their primes.

Agarkar was a neat-bowler who could bowl tight-lines and keep the run-rate down. That’s it.

The Pakistani counterpart would be Hasan Ali today; expensive but able to bowl variation and between 80-85 mph with a few wickets that you cannot remember how he obtained.

 

[hur rizvi]

what about the below numbers, then ?

Shoaib Akhtar had 247 wickets in 163 ODIs @ average of 24
Umar Gul had 179 in 130 OdIs @ average of 29.3
amir had 81 in 61 Odis @ 29.6
Wahab had 115 in 89 @ 34.5

Agarkar had 288 wickets in 191 Odis @ 28.9 average

There is a reason one team (Pakistan) degraded rapidly after 2000s and one team improved significantly after 2000s. Except for 1/2 exceptional bowlers like (Asif and Amir of 2010), what Pakistan got was a line of mediocre bowlers , below average TRUNDLERS in last 20 years (Akhtar was threatening till early 2000s, after that he was in-out and got lot of thrashing as well). Even in that era of 2000s those numbers 288 wickets in 191 ODIs were very good..

So your point is that Agarkar was great. Then why the despair at Ajit agarkar generation?

 

[iniqbal223]

So your point is that Agarkar was great. Then why the despair at Ajit agarkar generation?

None of the names mentioned above were great!
Its just peer comparison. So if Akhtar had an upper hand in bowling fast, Agarkar had upper hand in getting wickets, though after one stage both became expensive and laughing stock for the world..

Just bursting the bubble of thoughts that our Phast bowling was great (that great that we had a line of trundlers for last 2 decades)

 

[iniqbal223]

All those names you mentioned could bowl at 90 mph or above in their primes. Agarkar was 85mph (that’s being generous) in his prime.

Furthermore, the comparison between Akhtar and Agarkar is laughable due to a massive 5 point difference in ODI and 17 point a difference in Test average.

But nitpicking at numbers will not help anyone’s case with making comparisons.

Agarkar was never treated or thought of as a threat by the opposition. Even Gul, Wahab, and Amir had the respect of the opposition during their primes.

Agarkar was a neat-bowler who could bowl tight-lines and keep the run-rate down. That’s it.

The Pakistani counterpart would be Hasan Ali today; expensive but able to bowl variation and between 80-85 mph with a few wickets that you cannot remember how he obtained.

Majority of this comparison was around ODIs performance. If we need to take other angles and think who overall is a better cricketer then you have to consider their batting, fielding. And you would not be surprised to know if fielding and batting would come Agarkar was even better batsmen than few batsmen of today's Pakistan line up..

 

[iniqbal223]

All those names you mentioned could bowl at 90 mph or above in their primes. Agarkar was 85mph (that’s being generous) in his prime.

Furthermore, the comparison between Akhtar and Agarkar is laughable due to a massive 5 point difference in ODI and 17 point a difference in Test average.

But nitpicking at numbers will not help anyone’s case with making comparisons.

Agarkar was never treated or thought of as a threat by the opposition. Even Gul, Wahab, and Amir had the respect of the opposition during their primes.

Agarkar was a neat-bowler who could bowl tight-lines and keep the run-rate down. That’s it.

The Pakistani counterpart would be Hasan Ali today; expensive but able to bowl variation and between 80-85 mph with a few wickets that you cannot remember how he obtained.

Thats the myth that we had that we have to terrorize the batsmen and get respect. That might have worked in Akhtar's early years (when he also had support of Wasim and Waqar). As soon as Ws departed, he became toothless and got Phainta(except for few matches. Akhtar was largely a bowler of spells and was utilized well until 2002). Just bowling fast randomly is also what Wahab is doing today... When you have to see the output, numbers are there for everyone.. Bowling fast/slow was never a measure of success, its just an indication of ABILITY BUT NOT SUCCESS. The only thing matter is the wicket columns which helps you win games.. which Akhtar had less, had he remain focussed in his career..

 

[iniqbal223]

All those names you mentioned could bowl at 90 mph or above in their primes. Agarkar was 85mph (that’s being generous) in his prime.

Furthermore, the comparison between Akhtar and Agarkar is laughable due to a massive 5 point difference in ODI and 17 point a difference in Test average.

But nitpicking at numbers will not help anyone’s case with making comparisons.

Agarkar was never treated or thought of as a threat by the opposition. Even Gul, Wahab, and Amir had the respect of the opposition during their primes.

Agarkar was a neat-bowler who could bowl tight-lines and keep the run-rate down. That’s it.

The Pakistani counterpart would be Hasan Ali today; expensive but able to bowl variation and between 80-85 mph with a few wickets that you cannot remember how he obtained.

Dude, he was not 85 mph at max bowler that some are making it out to be..He was not a trundler, and I don't think any bowler bowls 10 overs consistently at that speed. Again I said he was 135-145 kph range bowler.

Now who were Trundlers : Trundlers are those who face difficulty in completing their set quota of 10 overs in ODIs (forget about test matches). Have breathing difficulty while bowling. Start with high speed around 125-130 kph and then comes down to their usual 110-125 kph level of bowling..Plus when they bowl they rarely swing, and they accidentally take wickets. One can take 30-50 wickets accidentally in international cricket but not 288 wickets..

Examples of modern day Trundling greats from Pakistan in last 2 decades : Ehsan Adil, Mohammad Talha, Junaid Khan, Amir Yameen, Sohail Tanvir, Tanveer Ahmed, Imran Khan Jr., Sohail Khan, Rana Naveed, post 2010 (Abdul Razzak) , Md. Irfan, Hammad Azam, Cheema, Rahat Ali, Anwer Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Rumman Raees, Najaf Shah, Abdur Rauf, Iftikhar Anjum, Mohammad Khaleel, etc.

This is called as trundling factory..

 

[hur rizvi]

None of the names mentioned above were great!
Its just peer comparison. So if Akhtar had an upper hand in bowling fast, Agarkar had upper hand in getting wickets, though after one stage both became expensive and laughing stock for the world..

Just bursting the bubble of thoughts that our Phast bowling was great (that great that we had a line of trundlers for last 2 decades)

I am gonna stop you here Agarkar is not fit enough to tie Akhtar’s shoe laces let alone having an upper hand in anything


Akhtar never was laughing stock, other than few matches in 2011 WC even in that he had same old wicket taking ability though he had lost all his stamina. If you are going to judge Akhtar on few beatings that he received than even Waqar is rubbish he received epic phainta from a nobody like jadeja atleast Akhtar got phainta from New Zealand great Taylor

 

[hur rizvi]

Thats the myth that we had that we have to terrorize the batsmen and get respect. That might have worked in Akhtar's early years (when he also had support of Wasim and Waqar). As soon as Ws departed, he became toothless and got Phainta(except for few matches. Akhtar was largely a bowler of spells and was utilized well until 2002). Just bowling fast randomly is also what Wahab is doing today... When you have to see the output, numbers are there for everyone.. Bowling fast/slow was never a measure of success, its just an indication of ABILITY BUT NOT SUCCESS. The only thing matter is the wicket columns which helps you win games.. which Akhtar had less, had he remain focussed in his career..

Akhtar’s best bowling years were actually from 2002-2005 after 2 Ws and actually Waqar was inferior to Akhtar and was done when Akhtar made his debut


He averaged 25 in tests. Agarkar is nobody in test cricket with 47 average, pretty similar to Muhammad Sami. Now turn the argument and compare Sami and Akhtar in your head and see how ridiculous that sounds

I get shaheen and Naseem can turn out utter garbage but don’t disrespect somebody like Akhtar by comparison with rubbish like Agarkar

 

[hur rizvi]

Dude, he was not 85 mph at max bowler that some are making it out to be..He was not a trundler, and I don't think any bowler bowls 10 overs consistently at that speed. Again I said he was 135-145 kph range bowler.

Now who were Trundlers : Trundlers are those who face difficulty in completing their set quota of 10 overs in ODIs (forget about test matches). Have breathing difficulty while bowling. Start with high speed around 125-130 kph and then comes down to their usual 110-125 kph level of bowling..Plus when they bowl they rarely swing, and they accidentally take wickets. One can take 30-50 wickets accidentally in international cricket but not 288 wickets..

Examples of modern day Trundling greats from Pakistan in last 2 decades : Ehsan Adil, Mohammad Talha, Junaid Khan, Amir Yameen, Sohail Tanvir, Tanveer Ahmed, Imran Khan Jr., Sohail Khan, Rana Naveed, post 2010 (Abdul Razzak) , Md. Irfan, Hammad Azam, Cheema, Rahat Ali, Anwer Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Rumman Raees, Najaf Shah, Abdur Rauf, Iftikhar Anjum, Mohammad Khaleel, etc.

This is called as trundling factory..

None of the trundler you mention in last paragraph were remotely close to 145+ barring Irfan for few months who had terrible fitness and cheema who got his chance at 35 years of age. Bhatti was quick but was as small as Musa without bowling brain

 

[Asifnow]

14 wickets with economy of ~ 10

Thats what my earlier point is they got wickets somehow and got thrashed badly..and this reminds me of Agarkar

And an average of only 18 and a SR of 12. He gives away less than 20 runs per wicket, aged just 19 on the flattest, deadest wickets I've ever seen. In fact, take away his last game, which wash is worse and his numbers would look even better. Why you gotta post non-truths?

 

[iniqbal223]

And an average of only 18 and a SR of 12. He gives away less than 20 runs per wicket, aged just 19 on the flattest, deadest wickets I've ever seen. In fact, take away his last game, which wash is worse and his numbers would look even better. Why you gotta post non-truths?

Obviously in T20, average will be that low .. what you think any decent bowler should be conceding 60 runs per wicket..there are , however..If average is high that means bowlers are conceding 50-60+ runs every match in which they have to bowl 4 overs

 

[tyron_woodley]

Dude, he was not 85 mph at max bowler that some are making it out to be..He was not a trundler, and I don't think any bowler bowls 10 overs consistently at that speed. Again I said he was 135-145 kph range bowler.

Now who were Trundlers : Trundlers are those who face difficulty in completing their set quota of 10 overs in ODIs (forget about test matches). Have breathing difficulty while bowling. Start with high speed around 125-130 kph and then comes down to their usual 110-125 kph level of bowling..Plus when they bowl they rarely swing, and they accidentally take wickets. One can take 30-50 wickets accidentally in international cricket but not 288 wickets..

Examples of modern day Trundling greats from Pakistan in last 2 decades : Ehsan Adil, Mohammad Talha, Junaid Khan, Amir Yameen, Sohail Tanvir, Tanveer Ahmed, Imran Khan Jr., Sohail Khan, Rana Naveed, post 2010 (Abdul Razzak) , Md. Irfan, Hammad Azam, Cheema, Rahat Ali, Anwer Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Rumman Raees, Najaf Shah, Abdur Rauf, Iftikhar Anjum, Mohammad Khaleel, etc.

This is called as trundling factory..

people are confused. Him.being trash equates to him.being a trundler lol. Agarkar regularly clocked between 138-145. He is an above average odi bowler. average test player. Mediocre test bowler.

He may have been terrible at times but he never was a trundler.

 

[iniqbal223]

people are confused. Him.being trash equates to him.being a trundler lol. Agarkar regularly clocked between 138-145. He is an above average odi bowler. average test player. Mediocre test bowler.

He may have been terrible at times but he never was a trundler.

Totally agree!
While some of the analysis was mature and balanced, others were like more hollow and amateurish..

Coming back to the question : Did any one feel the way these 5 bowlers get spanked in PSL is it good enough to tout them next coming of Akhtar, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uj_R02DIHU

 

[iniqbal223]

Does any one noticed stats of Aquib Javed 183 ODI wickets in 163 ODI games at 29 average.. lol

 

[Monsee]

Totally agree!
While some of the analysis was mature and balanced, others were like more hollow and amateurish..

Coming back to the question : Did any one feel the way these 5 bowlers get spanked in PSL is it good enough to tout them next coming of Akhtar, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uj_R02DIHU

You base your thread on stats/performance of up and coming bowlers (most barely out of their teens) in a Tamasha T20 league (all T20s are just that anyway) to guage their success in their overall career (primarily in the longer format)...yet you call others analysis as hollow and ameteurish lol!

Just purely amazing

 

[iniqbal223]

You base your thread on stats/performance of up and coming bowlers (most barely out of their teens) in a Tamasha T20 league (all T20s are just that anyway) to guage their success in their overall career (primarily in the longer format)...yet you call others analysis as hollow and ameteurish lol!

Just purely amazing

Because if you call 135-145 kph bowler a trundler then what's left there to say

 

[iniqbal223]

Such blasphemy to have Naseem Shah in this list
The boy has several times more potential than '7 ducks' Agarkar

There is a huge gap between Potential/Talent than Performance....

1) Performance wins you games, makes you world beater
2) Potential/Talent alone would give you Akmals/Shehzads etc. BTW, almost 90% of cricketers who played for Pakistan are labelled as talented/with potential. And how many succeeded??