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New Atheists Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris face Islamophobia backlash

Sam Harris and Dawkins are two of the greatest minds of our times. Hitchens was one of the best speakers.

Along the way, they've upset a lot of religious folk and it always makes me laugh.

Big LOL at those trying to throw an Islamophobe angle at them. You should listen to them more. They shred every religion along the way. I haven't heard them do much or anything with Hinduism. But that's probably because the negative aspects of it haven't made their way into the West. All they're probably exposed to is the inherent atheism in the Vedas on which some opportunists constructed a religion.
 
Sam Harris and Dawkins are two of the greatest minds of our times. Hitchens was one of the best speakers.

Along the way, they've upset a lot of religious folk and it always makes me laugh.

Big LOL at those trying to throw an Islamophobe angle at them. You should listen to them more. They shred every religion along the way. I haven't heard them do much or anything with Hinduism. But that's probably because the negative aspects of it haven't made their way into the West. All they're probably exposed to is the inherent atheism in the Vedas on which some opportunists constructed a religion.

they might be great minds and have done good work but I've heard both go against Chomsky on a number of issues and I don't think any of them is a great speaker..Chomsky is a tough one to debate but both seemed to get easily frustrated with him.
 
If saying "Islam is the greatest force for evil in the world today" isn't Islamophobic I don't know what is. Whether that means he should be barred from saying it is another matter, but I don't know why he's trying to play with words now by claiming he is against Islamism. He should stick to his guns, no one is going to be fooled by weasel words.

Are you sure? I doubt a pure rationalist would believe in evil.
 
[MENTION=139758]pillionrider[/MENTION] Harris is clearly a very intelligent guy but he does totally whitewash U.S foreign policy and says people should support Israel simply because its secular.

Even when iraqis fought against u.s troops he blamed that on Islam saying its because they couldnt accept that we were bringing democracy and freedom to their country because america was non muslim.

he is the type of guy who would back the whole civilising mission the brits n the french claimed they were doing the world a favour by spreading enlightenment n reason to the world.

Brits even used example of Sati to justify why they needed to be in India.

Because people practice bad things it gives the enlightened ones the right to treat them how they want.

its only after the iraq war turned into a monumental diaster that the neo conservative civilising mission was consigned to history.
 
[MENTION=139758]pillionrider[/MENTION] like Harris exchange with Chomsky when Clinton bombed the Al-Shifa pharamaceutical plant in Sudan on the suspicion that Al qaeda were using it to make nerve gas which was never proven at all. n it destroyed a medical facility in one of the poorest countries in the world. chomsky called it a violation of international law. but harris justified it because the u.s intention was to do good even if it resulted in such a reckless action like that
 
Not this reason. This is a symptom of the closing of the American mind. Dawkins is not Islamophobic - he is withering in his intellectual criticism of all religions, of everything not evidence-based.

He can't come because someone's feelings might get hurt. Waaaaaaaaah. What a bunch of snowflakes. Man up!

He seems to be mainly anti-Islam and anti-Christianity. Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism escape his wrath.
 
He seems to be mainly anti-Islam and anti-Christianity. Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism escape his wrath.

I think it has to do with influence of Christianity and Islam in world politics and future vision of this planet. Atheist don't care much about personal belief of people , how it effects the policies and culture of greater world is the main cause of concern.

Once religion(or a particular religion) become non-political force, nobody will care what literally people belief in private...
 
I think it has to do with influence of Christianity and Islam in world politics and future vision of this planet. Atheist don't care much about personal belief of people , how it effects the policies and culture of greater world is the main cause of concern.

Once religion(or a particular religion) become non-political force, nobody will care what literally people belief in private...

Then why would Dawkins fail to bring up Judaism...which actually started the trend of bringing religion in to world politics and continues to impact it till today. The murders that have been committed for the Promised land and continue to happen today are blamed by Dawkins on Islam without ever acknowledging the fact that the Jews are triggered by religion and believe they should be living on this land because it's what God told them in the Old Testament.

I personally don't think Dawkins is an Islamophobe but he has a clear bias against it...
 
Then why would Dawkins fail to bring up Judaism...which actually started the trend of bringing religion in to world politics and continues to impact it till today. The murders that have been committed for the Promised land and continue to happen today are blamed by Dawkins on Islam without ever acknowledging the fact that the Jews are triggered by religion and believe they should be living on this land because it's what God told them in the Old Testament.

I personally don't think Dawkins is an Islamophobe but he has a clear bias against it...

He does bring Judaism into discussion, his book 'God Delusion' has many references to that. He has said that, God of Old Testament is far more cruel then new Testament or Islam, but religious literalism is Islam ATM is highest. %age of muslims you believe that Quran is literally word of God and true is significantly higher than in Christianity and Judaism. Those idols serves as plumbing for extremist, more you have it easier it gets for extremist to run their agenda in society.
 
Then why would Dawkins fail to bring up Judaism...which actually started the trend of bringing religion in to world politics and continues to impact it till today. The murders that have been committed for the Promised land and continue to happen today are blamed by Dawkins on Islam without ever acknowledging the fact that the Jews are triggered by religion and believe they should be living on this land because it's what God told them in the Old Testament.

I personally don't think Dawkins is an Islamophobe but he has a clear bias against it...

Seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyr730KF-SE
 
He's very, very clever and very, very rational and people have no answer to that so they attack his character.

Not a very clever response:

- fyi, very clever people can be bigot.
- you basically accusing his critics of ad hominem and I think it's ad hominem itself.

From the generous usage of word "very" for richard, it's obvious that you are a person of low standards.
 
He does bring Judaism into discussion, his book 'God Delusion' has many references to that. He has said that, God of Old Testament is far more cruel then new Testament or Islam, but religious literalism is Islam ATM is highest. %age of muslims you believe that Quran is literally word of God and true is significantly higher than in Christianity and Judaism. Those idols serves as plumbing for extremist, more you have it easier it gets for extremist to run their agenda in society.


my bad guys. I'd never heard him talk about Judaism...I'd only seen some of his debates with Chomsky.
 
Are you sure? I doubt a pure rationalist would believe in evil.

In that case he should choose his words more carefully, according to the article and another one I read in the Times today he is quoted as saying Islam is the greatest force for evil in the world today. Like I said, it's of no concern to me if that's what he thinks, but you can understand why reputable institutions might think twice about giving him a platform.
 
Dawkins is no Islamophobe, though even if he were and others are, are Muslims really surprised as to why this is the case? A large cohort of people hellbent on taking the world back to the 6th century is scary to most people...
 
Dawkins is no Islamophobe, though even if he were and others are, are Muslims really surprised as to why this is the case? A large cohort of people hellbent on taking the world back to the 6th century is scary to most people...

How many and who? You are just spouting what the likes of the EDL or other Islamaphobes do. You feel its justified spreading hate against a whole religion and it's followers because of the actions of some?
 
How many and who? You are just spouting what the likes of the EDL or other Islamaphobes do. You feel its justified spreading hate against a whole religion and it's followers because of the actions of some?

Wouldn't you count as one of those people? Everything you've said here points to you wanting a world order run by Shariah, where homosexuals are punished, apostates punished, ahmedis persecuted and levied with special taxes and what not based on their faith, women given strict roles of what to wear and where to go, dietary restrictions put based on what is halal or not, etc etc etc.

I am leaving out violent extremists as I know they don't represent muslims or Islam. However, pious muslims want to live in a Shariah based society which takes us back to 6th century...which is a scary prospect.
 
^^ Furthermore, I don't hate any religion nor am I in favor of intolerance against any religion, provided that the religion is kept for it's intended use, i.e. private belief or faith system.

The moment religion oversteps that boundary and starts to influence social order, is when problems are created. I do believe that religion has no role to play in shaping societal values. These need to be secular, fair and equitable to all that are part of that society.
 
^ You are a classic Islamaphobe, have no argument and just continue to rant the same nonsense time and time again.

I dont care what you hate or don't as you have no influence further your own keyboard. Dont give yourself too much importance just because you're an athiest and feel enlightened. Tommy Robinson does a better job than you.
 
^ You are a classic Islamaphobe, have no argument and just continue to rant the same nonsense time and time again.

I dont care what you hate or don't as you have no influence further your own keyboard. Dont give yourself too much importance just because you're an athiest and feel enlightened. Tommy Robinson does a better job than you.

You didn't respond to the post that mattered. Are you not in favor of Shariah-based society? And wouldn't you agree that many many pious muslims are as well?

That is scary to me, because it is counter to having a fair, equitable society where the laws of the land are the same and fair for all. If that makes me an Islamophobe or whatever other names you want to call me, then so be it.
 
You didn't respond to the post that mattered. Are you not in favor of Shariah-based society? And wouldn't you agree that many many pious muslims are as well?

That is scary to me, because it is counter to having a fair, equitable society where the laws of the land are the same and fair for all. If that makes me an Islamophobe or whatever other names you want to call me, then so be it.

Its scary to you as it's scary to Britain first because like them you have no understanding of it. Nothing anyone can say will make a difference. So continue, it's only your personal issue.
 
Dawkins and Harris are massive bigots, no doubt. You can be an atheist without being a bigot.
 
^ You are a classic Islamaphobe, have no argument and just continue to rant the same nonsense time and time again.

I dont care what you hate or don't as you have no influence further your own keyboard. Dont give yourself too much importance just because you're an athiest and feel enlightened. Tommy Robinson does a better job than you.

Dawkins and Harris are Islamophobe. [MENTION=139877]Third_Umpire[/MENTION] is far from it. How is saying religion should be a private thing bigotry? You live UK, a great society which allows you and others to practise whatever you want. How is this not a society that should be good enough to live in? You get justice, safety, superb education and freedom.
 
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Dawkins and Harris are Islamophobe. [MENTION=139877]Third_Umpire[/MENTION] is far from it. How is saying religion should be a private thing bigotry? You live UK, a great society which allows you and others to practise whatever you want. How is this not a society that should be good enough to live in? You get justice, safety, superb education and freedom.

He believes the same. Read above.

I never suggested where I live is not good enough but it's far from perfect too.

Perhaps you should start a thread on the morals of western society and we can comment in detail?
 
He believes the same. Read above.

I never suggested where I live is not good enough but it's far from perfect too.

Perhaps you should start a thread on the morals of western society and we can comment in detail?

Someone being a slag or a drunk on a street corner doesn't really affect you re: morals. You live in a Western country, so do numerous members of my extended family and so have I in the UK in the past yet we are all moral and just people. Or I am assuming you are.

You're taking about Western morals when they are the only countries where anyone can find justice regardless of being poor or rich, where you're safe, where you get free medical treatment and where you get a first class education. If it was upto morals millions of Muslims and even non-Muslims would not flock there and people like you would have left. Ofcourse they have their problems, every place does but there is a reason why every tom dick and harry runs off to these countries. Education + jobs + safety and justice. I'd take these 'morals' everyday.

Out of all the arguments this is the weakest.
 
Its scary to you as it's scary to Britain first because like them you have no understanding of it. Nothing anyone can say will make a difference. So continue, it's only your personal issue.

What part am I not understanding? Am I wrong in how I described Sharia using the examples above? It sounds like you don't want to address this, and also don't want to state that you are in favor of Sharia based society. Because if you and others that think like you are, I will repeat - that is definitely scary.
 
Someone being a slag or a drunk on a street corner doesn't really affect you re: morals. You live in a Western country, so do numerous members of my extended family and so have I in the UK in the past yet we are all moral and just people. Or I am assuming you are.

You're taking about Western morals when they are the only countries where anyone can find justice regardless of being poor or rich, where you're safe, where you get free medical treatment and where you get a first class education. If it was upto morals millions of Muslims and even non-Muslims would not flock there and people like you would have left. Ofcourse they have their problems, every place does but there is a reason why every tom dick and harry runs off to these countries. Education + jobs + safety and justice. I'd take these 'morals' everyday.

Out of all the arguments this is the weakest.

Firstly I love living in the UK ,it's been my home all my life. But you were suggesting there are no issues but far from it there are plenty and it's the non-Muslims here in the UK who want change more than anything else. Society can improve wherever you are but the social problems esp within the family here is destroying many lives. It's an interesting topic which should be discussed not shunned because it's better than a third world corrupt country which is littered with crime and terrorism.
 
What part am I not understanding? Am I wrong in how I described Sharia using the examples above? It sounds like you don't want to address this, and also don't want to state that you are in favor of Sharia based society. Because if you and others that think like you are, I will repeat - that is definitely scary.

Yes you are very wrong and if you know me from my posts I don't hide or run from any debate esp one where someone is suggesting Islam is what you are suggesting. I just don't feel you are worthy of a debate, sorry.
 
Firstly I love living in the UK ,it's been my home all my life. But you were suggesting there are no issues but far from it there are plenty and it's the non-Muslims here in the UK who want change more than anything else. Society can improve wherever you are but the social problems esp within the family here is destroying many lives. It's an interesting topic which should be discussed not shunned because it's better than a third world corrupt country which is littered with crime and terrorism.

Absolutely, which is what I said. There are problems in the West too but those problems do not compromise:

-quality education
-justice for all
-good medical care
-freedom to practice whatever everyone believes in when it comes to religion, clothing, relationships, marriages etc

And most of those options only come in secular societies like the West. And religious people, like you for example, are thriving in such societies even though they're not Sharia or religious based.
 
Yes you are very wrong and if you know me from my posts I don't hide or run from any debate esp one where someone is suggesting Islam is what you are suggesting. I just don't feel you are worthy of a debate, sorry.

Highly evasive, and a sign of acceptance on your part that what I am saying is not unreasonable - just that you don't have a response to it. Otherwise, we are all screen names on a forum; there's nothing personal that should prevent a debate.

.
 
How many and who? You are just spouting what the likes of the EDL or other Islamaphobes do. You feel its justified spreading hate against a whole religion and it's followers because of the actions of some?

Muslim conservatism breeds extremism, in a similar way 100+ years ago Christian right was given white racism a shelter. When people were criticizing Christians for harboring white racism(there were separate churches for white and black, in some places there still are), one could argue not every white christen is racist, but they breed culture that was home land to many racist movements, church silently standby them if not openly.

Muslim conservative culture today(not just today) is in a similar spot, its not like every conservative muslim is extremist or terrorist, the culture they produce is magnets to terrorist all over the world...There are deep links of conservative muslim movements/ideology/parties and terrorist organizations. In Pakistan they work together in many ways, Jamat Islamia or all those Suni and Wahabi parties have direct links with Terrorist organizations and money from conservative oil rich states, it has proven many times...When people criticize Islamic conservative culture, there is a reason for it. Nobody cares about what Buddhist do in the temple, when they will start blowing up randomly all over the place, people will come after them as well. Some people treat that as Islamophobia, I don't. Muslim conservatives have to address its short coming, if terrorist are using their platform, well faults lies in them too!!
 
How many and who? You are just spouting what the likes of the EDL or other Islamaphobes do. You feel its justified spreading hate against a whole religion and it's followers because of the actions of some?

He's of Indian background, not really any surprise he agrees with Tommy Robinson. Don't expect to see him on any similarly critical threads about India and the rise of the Hindutva political parties.
 
He's of Indian background, not really any surprise he agrees with Tommy Robinson. Don't expect to see him on any similarly critical threads about India and the rise of the Hindutva political parties.

If you're talking about me my friend, I'm as Pakistani as they come. Born, raised, and still spend a few months every year in Pakistan.

Not that it should matter who's Indian and who's Pakistani... but since you asked.

I don't post much in threads about India or Hindutva because I simply don't care enough about those topics, nor do I objectively think that Hindutva is anywhere near as much of a menace to society as Islamic extremism.
 
[MENTION=139877]Third_Umpire[/MENTION] agreed that their main issue is with the politicisation of religion and the way its used to discriminate against certain groups.

If u are against Sharia as a legal code u arent a bigot at all. as a liberal of course you would be as Sharia a legal code mostly derived from the 9th century includes a lot of things that violate human rights.

Calling people bigots over expressing negative opinions on that is stupid.

and a lot of the other criticism is generic to the other abrahmic faiths in terms of sexism misogny homophobia.
 
Muslim conservatism breeds extremism, in a similar way 100+ years ago Christian right was given white racism a shelter. When people were criticizing Christians for harboring white racism(there were separate churches for white and black, in some places there still are), one could argue not every white christen is racist, but they breed culture that was home land to many racist movements, church silently standby them if not openly.

Muslim conservative culture today(not just today) is in a similar spot, its not like every conservative muslim is extremist or terrorist, the culture they produce is magnets to terrorist all over the world...There are deep links of conservative muslim movements/ideology/parties and terrorist organizations. In Pakistan they work together in many ways, Jamat Islamia or all those Suni and Wahabi parties have direct links with Terrorist organizations and money from conservative oil rich states, it has proven many times...When people criticize Islamic conservative culture, there is a reason for it. Nobody cares about what Buddhist do in the temple, when they will start blowing up randomly all over the place, people will come after them as well. Some people treat that as Islamophobia, I don't. Muslim conservatives have to address its short coming, if terrorist are using their platform, well faults lies in them too!!

So englightned arent we?

Care to englighten me further by explaining why terrorists in Libya and Syria are openely armed and financed by the Christians of today?
 
So englightned arent we?

Care to englighten me further by explaining why terrorists in Libya and Syria are openely armed and financed by the Christians of today?

Are you telling me that's how Jhidahist are recruited: We are taking money from Christians and blowing up our own people, to help Christians cause? - And Muslims are saying, where and how I can sign up ;-)

Main problem with religion(not just religion but quite a few Faith based ideologies) and the culture religion creates is dumbing down the masses, they are so easy to manipulate. Rationality and reason is thrown out of the window. Why it is so easy to setup terrorist factories in conservative cultures (aka Madarasa)? - In past they produced KKK type outfits... West did not invented Shia Sunni conflict, nor they created Wahabis(they are born out of conservative muslim culture) they are just exploiting it. West did not force Hindus and Muslims to kill each other like mad dogs in 1947, its there own doing and created a hatred among themselves that will live for a long long time. Its so easy to blame everything on west and never look at your own culture. You are feeding the troll and dogmas, that culture is nurtured by non other than conservatives in your own society. You are not going to get rid of all this non-sense until reason takes over the faith, culturally...
 
Are you telling me that's how Jhidahist are recruited: We are taking money from Christians and blowing up our own people, to help Christians cause? - And Muslims are saying, where and how I can sign up ;-)

Main problem with religion(not just religion but quite a few Faith based ideologies) and the culture religion creates is dumbing down the masses, they are so easy to manipulate. Rationality and reason is thrown out of the window. Why it is so easy to setup terrorist factories in conservative cultures (aka Madarasa)? - In past they produced KKK type outfits... West did not invented Shia Sunni conflict, nor they created Wahabis(they are born out of conservative muslim culture) they are just exploiting it. West did not force Hindus and Muslims to kill each other like mad dogs in 1947, its there own doing and created a hatred among themselves that will live for a long long time. Its so easy to blame everything on west and never look at your own culture. You are feeding the troll and dogmas, that culture is nurtured by non other than conservatives in your own society. You are not going to get rid of all this non-sense until reason takes over the faith, culturally...

Actually the west had quite a bit to do with the Hindu and Muslim massacres in 1947, that fallout was due to centuries of rule by imperialists which made use of the divide and rule principle. Subsequently you could argue they have made a pig's ear of it themselves but once the genie is out of the box it's pretty hard to put back in. Shia Sunni conflict is also exacerbated by world interests in the natural resources in the region. You only have to look at Syria and Iraq for that. Madrasahs are funded by oil wealth apparently. The only answer is for atheists to offer an alternative, preferably free. This is what the Christian missionaries did, and their schools were amongst the most popular for well to do Pakistanis.

It's easy to complain about the lack of progress while sitting abroad, but this work needs to be done on the ground by the people who live there. You only have to look at the Edhi foundation to see what can be done by a dedicated individual. Of course he was a religious guy, but imagine what could be achieved by an atheist who was determined to make a difference?
 
He seems to be mainly anti-Islam and anti-Christianity. Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism escape his wrath.

He dislikes Christianity because of the American fundies who rubbish his life's work. He was happy to ignore them as idiots.

Then 9/11 happened and more carnage in its wake ensued, and he got angry with Islamists and fundy Christians.

Adherents to other religions are not causing as much damage, and in any event Buddhism is more of a philosophy in the West.
 
He dislikes Christianity because of the American fundies who rubbish his life's work. He was happy to ignore them as idiots.

Then 9/11 happened and more carnage in its wake ensued, and he got angry with Islamists and fundy Christians.

Adherents to other religions are not causing as much damage, and in any event Buddhism is more of a philosophy in the West.

Aren't extremists inspired by Hinduism, and Buddhist supremacists in Asia causing quite a few problems at the moment though? And have been for many years? Dawkins seems very selective in his ire, reserving it all for the two younger Abrahamic religions.
 
Dawkins seems very selective in his ire, reserving it all for the two younger Abrahamic religions.

Agreed. There's an ongoing incremental genocide in Israel, accusations of state terrorism and extrajudicial killings. Why has he not been vocal about Israel?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Listening to the lovely bells of Winchester, one of our great mediaeval cathedrals. So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding “Allahu Akhbar.” Or is that just my cultural upbringing? <a href="https://t.co/TpCkq9EGpw">pic.twitter.com/TpCkq9EGpw</a></p>— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) <a href="https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1018933359978909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Listening to the lovely bells of Winchester, one of our great mediaeval cathedrals. So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding “Allahu Akhbar.” Or is that just my cultural upbringing? <a href="https://t.co/TpCkq9EGpw">pic.twitter.com/TpCkq9EGpw</a></p>— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) <a href="https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1018933359978909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Come and collect him [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

Tell me again that they've not got an irrational hatred for Islam as opposed to Christianity. Only a brown sahib would be blind to their islamophobia
 
Look on the bright side, one of the unintended side effects of Islamophobia is that bitter atheists like Dawkins are now finding a renewed appreciation for their previously discarded Christian culture. Truly God works in mysterious ways!
 
I have watched so many videos of Hitchens and Dawkins. Not one proper response to their criticism of Abrahamic faiths.
 
I have watched so many videos of Hitchens and Dawkins. Not one proper response to their criticism of Abrahamic faiths.

response to what? their lack of belief in God..my friend who have you watched? Tell me a Islamic speaker or scholar who you have watched?

our street preachers in Hyde park are enough to deal with the likes of harris and hitchens..lol..
 
Come and collect him [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

Tell me again that they've not got an irrational hatred for Islam as opposed to Christianity. Only a brown sahib would be blind to their islamophobia

Just like Katie Hopkins who was having problems with the Adhan..lol..pnly the shaiyateen get agitated when faced with the words of the Quraan and the adhan..lol
 
Over the past few months my respect for practicing muslims living in non-muslim westerm countries has increased so much. Nothing but respect to hold on to your faith in the face of polar opposite opinions.

These Dawkins and harris' etc. are so sure of themselves even though they leave the realm of science and enter philosophy many a times where there opinions are as good as an illiterate's. Time and again they have proved that they are philosophically handicapped.
 
response to what? their lack of belief in God..my friend who have you watched? Tell me a Islamic speaker or scholar who you have watched?

our street preachers in Hyde park are enough to deal with the likes of harris and hitchens..lol..

Never heard a proper response to the Age of Aisha, never heard the response to Prophet marrying his adopted Son's wife, never heard Prophet splitting moon miracle explanation... and of course the Adam and Eve story.
 
Come and collect him [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

Tell me again that they've not got an irrational hatred for Islam as opposed to Christianity. Only a brown sahib would be blind to their islamophobia

He is admitting his bias, within that tweet. I am culturally biased against many things in Islamic and Eastern culture, since I am brought up there. I love Sufi music, Qawali(some of them are very religious but sounds good to my ear), sound of dhool, those things you get naturally from the culture you are brought in... There is no need to read too much into this...Problem with religious cultures is that they don't focus on the main content of criticism on them but nit picking to play victim card...Imagine if Science worked that way? - Well Science cannot work that way, because before you brought up your theory to a wider audience it has to work first, its not develop is fantasy world ;-)
 
^ BTW: I used to love recitation of Sura Rehman by a Egyptian Mulvi, His name was also Rehman or something, he sounds so good. Good Art can come from any place, no one culture has monopoly on it...But in order to separating fact from fiction, we have to rely on evidence/reason not faith/emotion unfortunately!!
 
^ BTW: I used to love recitation of Sura Rehman by a Egyptian Mulvi, His name was also Rehman or something, he sounds so good. Good Art can come from any place, no one culture has monopoly on it...But in order to separating fact from fiction, we have to rely on evidence/reason not faith/emotion unfortunately!!

True..once I heard the muslim call for prayer in a foreign country, and I felt like I was in my own country.. didn't know that an islamophobe like me would feel good hearing the call for prayer.. God indeed works in mysterious ways.
 
Harris was always a bigot probably, and the previously compelling Dawkins has gone up the wall in the last couple of years.

But I still have a lot of respect for Hitchens (a Jew who was also a lifelong anti-Zionist).
 
Dawkins and Harris both are highly intellectual and eloquent people but I find it hard to agree with them on most things. Harris always says one particular thing about Islam and Muslims. He says (and i'm paraphrasing here) "Any criticism of the doctrine of Islam shouldn't be conflated with criticism of Muslims". He treats Islam and the followers of Islam as completely unlinked entitites and that just because he intends on criticising a religion doesn't mean he is targetting the followers of the religion. I can agree to that with SOME extent, but it's hard to agree with him too much on this topic when we are obligated to protect the sanctity of the religion to begin with.
 
Never heard a proper response to the Age of Aisha, never heard the response to Prophet marrying his adopted Son's wife, never heard Prophet splitting moon miracle explanation... and of course the Adam and Eve story.

Then your not listening. There are numerous responses to the above, try finding abdullah al andalusi who is a debater and has addressed many of these issues. Also the street preachers Mohamme Hijab, Ali Dawah, brother saboor and Hamza tzortsis have been in the front line of dealing with questions from laymen like yourself..

Also stop being lazy and do your own research..
 
Richard Dawkins accused of Islamophobia after comparing 'lovely church bells' to 'aggressive-sounding Allahu Akhbar'

When asked to clarify his comments, Mr Dawkins told The Independent the call to prayer could be “very beautiful… but also, ‘Allahu Akhbar’ is the last thing you hear before the suicide bomb goes off”.

Some responded to Mr Dawkins’s post by saying his tweet “smacks of intolerance” and calling it “prejudiced”, while one person branded the author of The God Delusion a “tedious old racist”.

“The bells of Winchester sound glorious, as does the call to prayer by a muizzen. The only aggressive, unpleasant sound is this prejudiced tweet as I read the words in my head,” one said.

“Turns out The God Delusion was just the collective insistence that Richard Dawkins was a philosopher and not just a tedious old racist,” another added.

One Twitter user said: “As a number of people said at the time The God Delusion was published, Dawkins’ atheism is intellectually flawed and often simply a vehicle for a suburban conservatism that is run through with a dangerous and aggressive Islamophobia that he passes off as a neutral ‘reason’.”

Another tweet said: “Sorry Richard. This smacks of intolerance. You should know better.”

Others said Mr Dawkins was ignorant about the Muslim call to prayer and told him to listen to it more closely.

“Sir, I don’t think it’s your cultural upbringing. I think you genuinely have no clue what the azaan is or how it sounds. Fine to me if you don’t like it but to qualify this as sounding ‘aggressive’ is just really, really silly,” one said.

Another added: “I have the same relationship with it as you have with the ‘Bells of Winchester’; but what you suggested here is ignorant and flat out wrong. As an atheist, you should stop this ironic dance of hate on the lines between religions.”

Another said: “As a Christian from a mixed Christian-Muslim country, it *is* your cultural upbringing. And it only sounds aggressive because you never bothered to learn more than English in your life.”

Last year, Mr Dawkins defended himself from accusations of “Islamophobia” after a US radio station, KPFA Radio in Berkeley, cancelled his appearance.

In an open letter to the organisers, he insisted he had “never used abusive speech against Islam”.

Instead, he said his remarks had been directed at Islamism, a term used to cover both political Islam and Islamic fundamentalism.

When asked to respond to critics who accused him of intolerance, Mr Dawkins told The Independent: “Church bells are beautiful. The muezzin’s call to prayer can also be very beautiful if recited in a good voice.

“But also, ‘Allahu Akhbar’ is the last thing you hear before the suicide bomb goes off.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...church-bells-criticism-religion-a8451141.html
 
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