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New Zealand, England or Australia - who will be the most competitive in India?

Varun

Varun

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So we have New Zealand tour for three tests, England for five and Australia next spring for four.

It's no surprise how the decks are going to play - they're going to take turn and this will prove to be a challenge for the opposition batsmen in particular.

How would you rank the three sides before going to the first of these series? Which ones in your opinion have the bats who are best placed to handle the spin, and who have the spinners to take advantage of the conditions?

I would guess:

1. New Zealand
2. England
3. Australia

in that order of success to failure.
 
Agree with OP's order.
The only outlier is if Australia will have managed to absorb the lessons of Sri Lanka, maybe the tests will go in to day 5
 
New Zealand and England will compete well. England have better batsmen of spin among the 3. Australia in their current state holds no chance.

New Zealand will be overall more competitive considering they have a better spin attack.
 
My money is on England.

Their batsmen have it in them to cope with spin and do well. Aussies might get obliterated.
 
England are the only side to win a setries in India recently, deserve to be respected. Swann-Panesar not being there and Jadeja as the 3rd spinner (at times the main spinner in Indian conditions) gives us a slight edge though.
 
As of now, NZ is barely doing well against Mumbai team.

And not even sure if its first choice Mumbai looking at the bowlers.

Let's see.

Kinda get the feeling these rank turners help the opposition a lot and make matches look closer than what they should be.

Still this is just a practice game and NZ will come back with better intensity when the first test starts.

This home season should help us get a better understanding of situation.

Last few years data suggests that on good pitches, touring sides have done a lot worse against India.
 
England.

New Zealand seem to have dropped off since the England tour last year in Tests. The bowling hasn't looked as sharp whilst Guptill and Nicholls are wasting two positions in their batting.
 
Why are Australia even in the title. They're hopeless. New Zealand and England will provide stern tests
 
England because they bat deep and with Cook and Root they have mad players of spin.

Moeen Ali could cause problems on rank turners especially given how Indian batsman play finger spin.

Nathan Lyon is a far superior bowler but he will be let down by the batting unfortunately for him...
 
The Poms.

Why?
Best batting team out of the 3.
With so many all rounders, they bat really deep and can afford to play the extra spinner.
They are not hopeless against spin, like the aussies.
They have a pretty good fast bowling combo with Anderson, Broad, Stokes and Woakes. Add Moeen and Rashid to it. Their spin doesnt have the same class as the previous trip, but they do have every base covered.

NZ might have been good, but they dont have as much exposure as England have had.

Aus, well, we saw SL did to them. And this is the same SL that should have lost 3-0 to both India and Pak.
 
India will smash all of these teams at home. England's bowling will be ineffective on the flat wickets with Broad and Anderson only looking decent on wickets with a little juice and the batting lacking quality in the middle order although they bat deep. Australia will be more competitive than in SL if the wickets are better but outside Lyons, the other spinners are very average. NZ will be well drilled but without Macullum, although flair in the batting and also lack real pace to trouble the Indian batsman.
 
1.England

Not the best players of spin, definitely better than Aus, that too by a long shot. Cook, Root, Bairstow are all pretty good players of spin. Don't know about their new players in Hameed and Duckett so I can't comment but it's not hard to do better than Vince/Ballance.

The real reason I back England is because of their bowlers. Broad and Anderson will do a good job of reversing the ball. They may also choose Wood who can reverse the ball at pace, forgot Finn, he can trouble batsmen too. Not only pace bowlers but also spinners. Rashid, wjile being erratic is still a prety good bowler. Big turner of the ball adn also has variations. Zafar Ansari, I have heard good things about him. Moeen is pretty good when the ball is spinning square (Vs us in UAE he got some vital wickets) especially with the drift he gets.

All in all best choice!

2. New Zealnd

Originally I had them first on my list, but they hve disappointed in todays warm up game. I backed their spinners in Santner and Sodhi to do decently but they couldn't do much against a Mumbai team either. Yeah, it's only their first match but hopes go down. Still have some decent pace options in Wagner, Boult and Henry. I back Wagner to do well, not sure about Henry or Boult. Henry will likely do better than Boult as he's faster and can probably reverse it while Boult has regressed.

Batting wise, they're decent. Williamson and Taylor to an extent are their only real hope in my eyes, others may chip in but those 2 are the only ones I back to be consistent.

May win a test that will exceed expectations

3. Australia

Humiliated by Sri Lanka, Australia have no chance against Ashwin and Mishra. Don't even back Smith to do well. Sums up their chances.

Bowling wise only Starc and to and extent Hazzelwood can hurt them, maybe Boyce too. No one else threatens
N chance:misbah
 
1. Australia - they have now had the experience of playing in SL and they have a decent spinners
2. Eng -- They will have had experience in BD before visiting India
3. NZ -- Now that Southee is out their chances have further diminished.
 
1. NZ - Williamson is the rock. Taylor, Watling and spinners will make the series very competitive. I predict this will be the best series in India for a while.
2. Eng - Even though they have good batsmen in Cook, Root and Bairstow, others are bad and hopefully Ballance and other guys continue in the team. Spinners are poor. Hopefully India don't underestimate mediocre bowlers like Moeen Lai this time.
3. Australia -- :)))
 
Nz have the best bowling and eng have the best batting. Aus are pathetic except starc & smith.
 
NZ. They have the best spin attack of the 3. Rashid and Moeen won't cut it in India, and the new guys England got haven't seen any intl exposure for some time. Maybe that 39 year old guy will surprise. Only thing is NZ lose out big time with Bmac retiring, his captaincy is of the sort that does well in Asia. All of NZ's spinners can bat as well which a huge plus.

England a close second because they have the best batting of the 3 teams. Alastair Cook is a proven world class opener in all conditions, and may very well be the batsman of the series followed by Root. Bairstow will be tested for sure though, remains to be seen how Moeen does as well given the ownage he got in UAE.

Aussies dead last, don't have the batting which doesn't carry resilience or confidence against anything that turns. But very interested to see how Starc does there if he is to continue his ascent to ATG pacer, also Pattinson if he plays (what happened to him?)
 
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Tusker said:
1. Australia - they have now had the experience of playing in SL and they have a decent spinners
2. Eng -- They will have had experience in BD before visiting India
3. NZ -- Now that Southee is out their chances have further diminished.
Click to expand...

Interesting order..
 
Suleiman said:
NZ. They have the best spin attack of the 3. Rashid and Moeen won't cut it in India, and the new guys England got haven't seen any intl exposure for some time. Maybe that 39 year old guy will surprise. Only thing is NZ lose out big time with Bmac retiring, his captaincy is of the sort that does well in Asia. All of NZ's spinners can bat as well which a huge plus.

England a close second because they have the best batting of the 3 teams. Alastair Cook is a proven world class opener in all conditions, and may very well be the batsman of the series followed by Root. Bairstow will be tested for sure though, remains to be seen how Moeen does as well given the ownage he got in UAE.

Aussies dead last, don't have the batting which doesn't carry resilience or confidence against anything that turns. But very interested to see how Starc does there if he is to continue his ascent to ATG pacer, also Pattinson if he plays (what happened to him?)
Click to expand...

Pattinson is injured as always and I don't the CA would risk him in Asian conditions until he is comfortable with his new action. Will play against SA and us though, if he isn't injured.
 
Ellipsism said:
The same spin attack, that hasn't done anything against Mumbai?
Click to expand...

It takes time to adjust. They just came from a series in SA. And they're probably playing on a true bounce pitch which it what Mumbai is known for. Pretty confident you won't see these in tests.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
It takes time to adjust. They just came from a series in SA. And they're probably playing on a true bounce pitch which it what Mumbai is known for. Pretty confident you won't see these in tests.
Click to expand...
NZ's spin attack is extremely over rated.

Sodhi- Blows hot and cold way to often, doesn't provide control and is far to erratic.

Craig- Can't spin the ball, again erratic. Very one-dimensional, prone to being carted around; struggles during pressure situations.

Santner- Only decent spinner, isn't a front line option for test matches, will struggle when the other two are being carted by the Indian batsman. He's young and will improve; still trying to grasp the art of spin bowling in test cricket.
 
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Ellipsism said:
NZ's spin attack is extremely over rated.

Sodhi- Blows hot and cold way to often, doesn't provide control and is far to erratic.

Craig- Can't spin the ball, again erratic. Very one-dimensional, prone to being carted around; struggles during pressure situations.

Santner- Only decent spinner, isn't a front line option for test matches, will struggle when the other two are being carted by the Indian batsman. He's young and will improve; still trying to grasp the art of spin bowling in test cricket.
Click to expand...
We'll be playing on rank turners where Jadeja is unplayable.

The last time the two sides met on a rank turner, India were humiliated by Sodhi and Santner.

India would be better off preparing a slow or flat wicket, that way they're almost guaranteed to win.

A rank turner only makes it more of a lottery.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
As of now, NZ is barely doing well against Mumbai team.

And not even sure if its first choice Mumbai looking at the bowlers.

Let's see.

Kinda get the feeling these rank turners help the opposition a lot and make matches look closer than what they should be.

Still this is just a practice game and NZ will come back with better intensity when the first test starts.

This home season should help us get a better understanding of situation.

Last few years data suggests that on good pitches, touring sides have done a lot worse against India.
Click to expand...
They aren't approaching this game with the intention to win, they're getting practice executing a plan, even though the conditions are different.

They're attacking the bowlers because they know the pitches they'll get will require that, you can't sit around and play proper Test cricket on those pitches as you need to be one elite tier to survive on those.

It seemed pretty obvious from the get go....
 
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Aman said:
We'll be playing on rank turners where Jadeja is unplayable.

The last time the two sides met on a rank turner, India were humiliated by Sodhi and Santner.

India would be better off preparing a slow or flat wicket, that way they're almost guaranteed to win.

A rank turner only makes it more of a lottery.
Click to expand...

Humiliated by Sodhi and santner? When?
 
IMO that team would be England. England takes its cricket in subcontinent seriously unlike Australia. Aus doesn't put up much of a fight nowadays. New Zealand has been playing some poor cricket of late every where so I don't think they will challenoge India in India.
 
I hope the pitches start spinning from the first over like the ones prepared against SA. Then all of them would do equally bad.
 
Funny thing is if the pitches take turn from the first day, India would do badly too. They were even getting owned by average spinners like Harmer and Piedt
 
sivaji said:
Funny thing is if the pitches take turn from the first day, India would do badly too. They were even getting owned by average spinners like Harmer and Piedt
Click to expand...
The only reason we have a slight chance is because you're making it more of a lottery. You'd win the series with ease if you prepared slow or flat wickets. Our bowlers are the worst in the world on flat wickets.
 
England and NZ aren't playing great cricket, I'm only putting the two ahead because Aus are so terrible against spin.
 
Ellipsism said:
Don't think India are going to dish out turners. Your opinion?
Click to expand...

Highly possible it's going to be a turner. Although people have said that it's difficult to prepare a turner in the current weather situation of India. I'm not holding my breath on it though.
 
Reverse swing will be a key factor .
I think England can outreverse India provided they stay in the game with decent totals.
The pitches against southafrica were too much for Amla and Ab .
Cook and Root will have to do better .
 
Anfield said:
IMO that team would be England. England takes its cricket in subcontinent seriously unlike Australia. Aus doesn't put up much of a fight nowadays. New Zealand has been playing some poor cricket of late every where so I don't think they will challenoge India in India.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Australians don't take Asian failure seriously.
 
T20 doesn't matter in the slightest, otherwise West Indies would be straight destroying everybody in test cricket. Guys like Narine, Badree, Tahir, and even Ajantha Mendis can be very destructive in T20s but are liabilities at test level. I'm sure Sodhi will be the same.

England will be the best team comfortably I suspect. NZ marginally better than Australia since they have better batsmen for these conditions. Australia are just hapless.
 
Aussies are gonna come with a solid team next year and give the toughest competition I think.

I think they have realized Lyon will mostly be a no show in Asian pitches and bring in other spinners.

They also have a couple batsmen who did well in India during A tour.

Plus their aggressive game cannot be discounted.

England is always a threat but I feel if they don't bring solid spinners for our tour and our batsmen are in form, they will be mercilessly ripped apart this time.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Aussies are gonna come with a solid team next year and give the toughest competition I think.

I think they have realized Lyon will mostly be a no show in Asian pitches and bring in other spinners.

They also have a couple batsmen who did well in India during A tour.

Plus their aggressive game cannot be discounted.

England is always a threat but I feel if they don't bring solid spinners for our tour and our batsmen are in form, they will be mercilessly ripped apart this time.
Click to expand...

O'Keefe is the only other spinner near it.

Our aggressive game can be discounted. It has never worked in Asia
 
Convict said:
O'Keefe is the only other spinner near it.

Our aggressive game can be discounted. It has never worked in Asia
Click to expand...

It worked when you put on 363 on Chennai rank turner.

400 in Mohali.

I am aware Australia are absolutely rubbish in Asia now but there is scope for improvement.

They have 2 bats (Bancroft and other guy) good with spin. Add in Smith and Warner. That's 4.

They have Starc and some decent pacers. They will bring in O Keefe, Zampa or someone else.

England would easily be the best of the lot but I am not sure how they will perform with their current spinners and a waning Anderson and Broad. And their batting against spin has no KP though they have 2 solid bats in Cook and Root. And I think we may take care of Cook this time with Ashwin.

NZ is a big threat with their spin trio but their batting may not sustain. If their spin is neutralized, they will be easy opponents.

So I am basing it on future moves of Aus cricket. Of course, its a wild wild guess.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
It worked when you put on 363 on Chennai rank turner.

400 in Mohali.

I am aware Australia are absolutely rubbish in Asia now but there is scope for improvement.

They have 2 bats (Bancroft and other guy) good with spin. Add in Smith and Warner. That's 4.

They have Starc and some decent pacers. They will bring in O Keefe, Zampa or someone else.

England would easily be the best of the lot but I am not sure how they will perform with their current spinners and a waning Anderson and Broad. And their batting against spin has no KP though they have 2 solid bats in Cook and Root. And I think we may take care of Cook this time with Ashwin.

NZ is a big threat with their spin trio but their batting may not sustain. If their spin is neutralized, they will be easy opponents.

So I am basing it on future moves of Aus cricket. Of course, its a wild wild guess.
Click to expand...

Warner isn't good against spin.

As much as I'd love it to happen we just can't assume that two shield guys who have never played international cricket will be good in Asia
 
Convict said:
Warner isn't good against spin.

As much as I'd love it to happen we just can't assume that two shield guys who have never played international cricket will be good in Asia
Click to expand...

Warner isn't good against spin but somehow scores.

Anyways, feel you are right.

There is a lot of leap that one needs to take to assume Aussies will do well next year.

England is more solid and safer bet.
 
Will the Indian groundsmen bother to turn up and actually do their job, and prepare proper wickets?
Or will they be exchanging numbers and bank details with the BCCI?

Only time will tell, otherwise we shouldn't bother to speculate about competitiveness, that's a relative term.
 
Varun said:
So we have New Zealand tour for three tests, England for five and Australia next spring for four.

It's no surprise how the decks are going to play - they're going to take turn and this will prove to be a challenge for the opposition batsmen in particular.

How would you rank the three sides before going to the first of these series? Which ones in your opinion have the bats who are best placed to handle the spin, and who have the spinners to take advantage of the conditions?

I would guess:

1. New Zealand
2. England
3. Australia

in that order of success to failure.
Click to expand...

It will be a toss up between England and NZ.

NZ have some good players of spin like Williamson and Taylor. They have proven that they can compete in Asia as evidenced by the Sharjah Test in 2014 where they demolished Pakistan.

England of course have Cook and Root who are very good against spin but I am not sure about the rest. Bairstow is not bad tbh.

I agree with most posters that Australia will struggle the most.
 
aloo paratha said:
Watch highlights, a lot of them were stumped, nicked or LBW, not caught in the deep off a miscued slog.
Click to expand...

So? You don't have to score at 7 runs an over in test cricket which makes all the difference. There's no such thing as defending in T20s, batsmen try to score off every single ball, at least working singles and twos if not going for big slogs. The leave and the forward defensive are unheard of.

Believe me, if that game was a test match, India would have been about 1/45 after 20 overs, instead of 79 all out.

Even if you are not slogging you still take way more risks in T20 than tests, so bowling out a side cheaply on a dustbowl in T20 can't be considered a sign that the same thing would have happened in a test match.

I remember a few years ago in a World T20 Sri Lanka routed New Zealand on a turner, and then a couple of months later NZ showed up and beat Sri Lanka in a test match.
 
I think Australia will lose, England will win and New Zealand will draw.
 
Wow! Just halfway through the first test of them all, and New Zealand are walking away with it!
 
Varun said:
Wow! Just halfway through the first test of them all, and New Zealand are walking away with it!
Click to expand...

Not at all.

Kiwis will have to bat last , it will not be easy. The pitch has started turning .

Kiwis need a big lead to put India under pressure.
 
Not surprising to see New Zealand struggle, they need much better bowlers. They need to plug at least 3-4 holes in the team: Sodhi, Guptill, Craig (all terrible test cricketers, whether in the subcontinent or anywhere else in the world) and perhaps Ronchi (jury's still out).

The batting is solid, except for Guptill.
 
india will take 9 of 13 home tests, they are unbeatable, with a odd draw here and there , and 1 odd test washed out
 
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NZ line up goes like this :

Guptill ( Poor)
Latham ( Good)
Williamson ( World Class)
Taylor ( Good- not as assured as his stats show)
Ronchi( Average)
Santner( Good)
Watling( Good)
Craig ( Poor)
Sodhi( very new to make comparison)
Wagner( Good)
Boult( Good)

Clearly, this is not a lineup you expect to win overseas or tough away tours.
 
Pantani said:
Not surprising to see New Zealand struggle, they need much better bowlers. They need to plug at least 3-4 holes in the team: Sodhi, Guptill, Craig (all terrible test cricketers, whether in the subcontinent or anywhere else in the world) and perhaps Ronchi (jury's still out).

The batting is solid, except for Guptill.
Click to expand...

Why are you trying to sink your boot into Ronchi - he's batted fine in both innings so far.
 
Hell yes!!!

Jeetan Patel brought into the squad in place of Craig!!!!
 
Jeetan Patel has been killing it in county cricket, he will no doubt be a huge step up from Craig.

Doesn't seem all lost seeing we have Jeetan Patel and Neesham coming into the side.

Although I would have preferred Corey over Neesham in these conditions, it can't be helped.
 
Ab Fan said:
NZ line up goes like this :

Guptill ( Poor)
Latham ( Good)
Williamson ( World Class)
Taylor ( Good- not as assured as his stats show)
Ronchi( Average)
Santner( Good)
Watling( Good)
Craig ( Poor)
Sodhi( very new to make comparison)
Wagner( Good)
Boult( Good)

Clearly, this is not a lineup you expect to win overseas or tough away tours.
Click to expand...
Patel in for Craig and Neesham in for Guptill.

I think KW or Ronchi will open next Test unless Jeet Raval is in the squad (?)
 
I don't know what jobber is the coin tosser than in the past year V Kohli has magically called heads right every time by the great grace of mama Tendulkar and batted first.

Let NZ win a toss and they will show what's up. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
 
Aman said:
Patel in for Craig and Neesham in for Guptill.

I think KW or Ronchi will open next Test unless Jeet Raval is in the squad (?)
Click to expand...

3 desi expats in the playing 11 lol the Punjabis in India might end up supporting Kiwis soon.
 
1st match was a golden chance for NZ. But India are too strong at home.

I expect England to do better than NZ/Aus
 
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