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New Zealand, England or Australia - who will be the most competitive in India?

Vishakapatnam is likely to take spin. That'll be a bigger test for England than Rajkot, which let's be fair - was a fairly sublime deck.
 
Fantastic from Cook and England, he's carried over his form from the last tour here.

Doing the right thing by staying put until that time in the tour where either team will be forced to take the series by the scruff.
 
great fight by England so far. They are playing better than South Africa in India.
 
Varun said:
Vishakapatnam is likely to take spin. That'll be a bigger test for England than Rajkot, which let's be fair - was a fairly sublime deck.
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I think ENgland have the spinners to neutralize the pitch if their batsmen can show fight like they are doing at the moment.
 
MRSN said:
England were pretty dominant on the last tour too.
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So were South Africa before the last tour. But that was a different Indian team. This was the team that faced SA last year and now England. So you can only compare those two series.
 
Bump.

England winning this by a mile. May get us out for a first innings trail!
 
Varun said:
Bump.

England winning this by a mile. May get us out for a first innings trail!
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Kaisay by a mile? Ashwin is super human atm; England won't dismiss him so easily
 
MenInG said:
Kaisay by a mile? Ashwin is super human atm; England won't dismiss him so easily
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Because they have competed better than NZ and Australia is a joke in these conditions. Ashwin though is a tremendous cricketer who makes India almost unbeatable at home - if it is a turner, he will destroy batting lineups and if it is a flat/normal wicket, he will score runs.

You simply can't take him out of the game.
 
MenInG said:
Kaisay by a mile? Ashwin is super human atm; England won't dismiss him so easily
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The comparison is with New Zealand and Australia, for both of whom a whitewash is the only way.
 
Eng has competed far better than SA or NZ. I would have liked to see rank turners though. Eng has gotten relatively flatter pitches despite failing big time on rank turners in BD. India mostly got flatter ones in Eng as well, So it looks like mutual arrangement ;)
 
Buffet said:
Eng has competed far better than SA or NZ. I would have liked to see rank turners though. Eng has gotten relatively flatter pitches despite failing big time on rank turners in BD. India mostly got flatter ones in Eng as well, So it looks like mutual arrangement ;)
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We only got the flatter ones after they learned their lesson with the greentop - Lord's - where you couldn't make out the pitch from the outfield and where Ishant Sharma came into his own.
 
I reckon if you played a neutral test championship in India, with the hosts sitting out, England would beat everybody else. Sri Lanka have always been really bad in India, Bangladesh have never played test cricket there and it must be at least 10 years since Pakistan last played tests there too.
 
Pantani said:
I reckon if you played a neutral test championship in India, with the hosts sitting out, England would beat everybody else. Sri Lanka have always been really bad in India, Bangladesh have never played test cricket there and it must be at least 10 years since Pakistan last played tests there too.
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Nah, Pakistan should beat Eng. I will also back SA to play far better if Steyn plays entire series.
 
Varun said:
We only got the flatter ones after they learned their lesson with the greentop - Lord's - where you couldn't make out the pitch from the outfield and where Ishant Sharma came into his own.
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Well, 4 flatter tracks out of 5 is still pretty good.
 
Pantani said:
I reckon if you played a neutral test championship in India, with the hosts sitting out, England would beat everybody else. Sri Lanka have always been really bad in India, Bangladesh have never played test cricket there and it must be at least 10 years since Pakistan last played tests there too.
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Nah, I don't see England beating Pakistan.

Maybe if the series was played on rank turners. Then their bowlers will become more lethal, pacers have always been good in asia while their long batting line up will give them the advantage. However on traditional Indian wickets, Pakistan will be beating England all day long.
 
street cricketer said:
Nah, I don't see England beating Pakistan.

Maybe if the series was played on rank turners. Then their bowlers will become more lethal, pacers have always been good in asia while their long batting line up will give them the advantage. However on traditional Indian wickets, Pakistan will be beating England all day long.
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Not on the wickets this series is being played on. Pakistan doesn't do well on 400 par first innings pitches.
 
Four tests on, what's the verdict?

England have more or less been a flat tyre in Mumbai.
 
Win the toss and still get hammered :)))

Happy to see this overrated England side get exposed.

India and SA are the two best sides in world cricket.
 
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Varun said:
Four tests on, what's the verdict?

England have more or less been a flat tyre in Mumbai.
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As Aman already said this is the 3rd toss won by a touring captain shabby performance in that regard from England,match is still not over though so lets see.
 
England have put up better scores because pitches have been better.

IMO we haven't been challenged by any of the 3 sides, yet.

Perhaps England can say they did better because they legitimately drew a test at Rajkot while the rest didn't come close to drawing as well. :))
 
I don't understand what is the point in playing a 5 match / 4 match Test series against England and Australia and these foreign teams when we already know what the result is going to be?? This is absolutely boring. Just play a three match series ad finish it off.

Why can't we instead play against Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, who will perform much better in these conditions. A series against Pakistan at the moment will be a thriller of a contest, even Bangla boys deserve a 3 match series as they will be far more competitive than England. Sri Lanka will also pose a better threat with Herath and other spinners in the mix.
 
Sam-ahm even Afghanishtan will pose better challenge than these teams ( England, Australia, Newzealand)
 
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sam_ahm said:
I don't understand what is the point in playing a 5 match / 4 match Test series against England and Australia and these foreign teams when we already know what the result is going to be?? This is absolutely boring. Just play a three match series ad finish it off.

Why can't we instead play against Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, who will perform much better in these conditions. A series against Pakistan at the moment will be a thriller of a contest, even Bangla boys deserve a 3 match series as they will be far more competitive than England. Sri Lanka will also pose a better threat with Herath and other spinners in the mix.
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Well Aus and Eng did thrash India 6-0 and 7-1 over consecutive tours so it's fair that India get the same opportunity too.

For them it's 3-2 over eng (so far) and 4-0 over Aus
 
Slog said:
Well Aus and Eng did thrash India 6-0 and 7-1 over consecutive tours so it's fair that India get the same opportunity too.

For them it's 3-2 over eng (so far) and 4-0 over Aus
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It is 8-0 over Australia by the same measure.
 
ali ray said:
Sam-ahm even Afghanishtan will pose better challenge than these teams ( England, Australia, Newzealand)
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I agree mate. :)

Slog said:
Well Aus and Eng did thrash India 6-0 and 7-1 over consecutive tours so it's fair that India get the same opportunity too.

For them it's 3-2 over eng (so far) and 4-0 over Aus
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It goes both ways, we also shouldn't play 5 match series in England and Australia.

I'd like to see only Iconic series like The Ashes or a series between India and Pakistan to be played over 5 tests as these series' will never be boring. Who wants to see Ashwin taking 60 wickets in a space of 2 months and Kohli scoring 2000 runs during the 4-5 month season with no challenge posed at all.
 
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sam_ahm said:
I agree mate. :)



It goes both ways, we also shouldn't play 5 match series in England and Australia.

I'd like to see only Iconic series like The Ashes or a series between India and Pakistan to be played over 5 tests as these series' will never be boring. Who wants to see Ashwin taking 60 wickets in a space of 2 months and Kohli scoring 2000 runs during the 4-5 month season with no challenge posed at all.
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Problem is that these series are scheduled years in advance so you don't know the strength of the side when they are scheduled

For eg in 2012 England won a 4 match in India series 2-1 so you would think they would be more competitive and hence a five match series could be justified
 
Slog said:
Problem is that these series are scheduled years in advance so you don't know the strength of the side when they are scheduled

For eg in 2012 England won a 4 match in India series 2-1 so you would think they would be more competitive and hence a five match series could be justified
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That series was the only aberration, if you see Australia's record in India, well, they simply don't deserve a 5 match / 4 match contest but always get one. This has more to do with the Big three concept than anything else. Thankfully that Big three thing is going off now, I assume.

Traditionally South Africa have always been very competitive in India, it was only last year that they failed miserably but on tacks that were not at all sportive (unlike the tacks this season). I think we went too far last year against RSA by preparing extreme tracks, Probably BCCI was hurt that they beat us in the ODIs so we surely didn't want to lose the tests.
 
Slog said:
I was counting post 2011 WC to be honest and didn't think of before that because that's too far back
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I see.

As far as the current teams go, the 2014 series is already too far back imo and the 2012 series were very different teams.

In the end, series between the big 3 sell and they will continue to be 4/5 matches long.
 
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ali ray said:
Sam-ahm even Afghanishtan will pose better challenge than these teams ( England, Australia, Newzealand)
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So Afghanistan who couldn't beat England lions in Asia would outperform the full England team? Not sure how that one would work.
 
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sam_ahm said:
That series was the only aberration, if you see Australia's record in India, well, they simply don't deserve a 5 match / 4 match contest but always get one. This has more to do with the Big three concept than anything else. Thankfully that Big three thing is going off now, I assume.

Traditionally South Africa have always been very competitive in India, it was only last year that they failed miserably but on tacks that were not at all sportive (unlike the tacks this season). I think we went too far last year against RSA by preparing extreme tracks, Probably BCCI was hurt that they beat us in the ODIs so we surely didn't want to lose the tests.
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I doubt it has anything to do with merit. India, Australia and England (and to a lesser extent, South Africa) are the money spinners in test cricket. So it's only natural that the longer series are scheduled between these teams.
 
England are an ovverated test team, other than the 1st match they haven't competed tbh. Hope Australia compete but they will have an inexperienced team so think they will have a tough tour as well.
 
Hasan123 said:
England are an ovverated test team, other than the 1st match they haven't competed tbh. Hope Australia compete but they will have an inexperienced team so think they will have a tough tour as well.
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England have done well enough to push every test into the final day, except for Mohali. Australia will be lucky to push even a single test to day five. Have a look at their batting stats

d14d541b72c90c29bffda49bac987b57.png


Only Smith and Warner are likely to perform better than Cook, who has been one of England's weakest batsmen on the tour by batting average. They have also had five centurions, which Australia cannot hope to match.
 
Pantani said:
England have done well enough to push every test into the final day, except for Mohali. Australia will be lucky to push even a single test to day five. Have a look at their batting stats

d14d541b72c90c29bffda49bac987b57.png


Only Smith and Warner are likely to perform better than Cook, who has been one of England's weakest batsmen on the tour by batting average. They have also had five centurions, which Australia cannot hope to match.
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Lol the 2nd test they lost by 246 runs, even though they pushed it to day 5 they were hammered. Even in this current game they will lose by a heavy margin even though it will get to day 5.

For me competing is losing by less than 70 runs or losing by 4/5 wickets. England have competed in patches but for the most part it's been a one side series.
 
England has won 3 tosses and lost just one. NZ lost all 3 tosses.

India's catching has been a lot worse in this series vs NZ.

India also had a full strength team against NZ in every match. Rahane and Shami are amongst their 5 best players in tests and both are missing here and in Chennai.
 
Sin Nombre said:
England has won 3 tosses and lost just one. NZ lost all 3 tosses.

India's catching has been a lot worse in this series vs NZ.

India also had a full strength team against NZ in every match. Rahane and Shami are amongst their 5 best players in tests and both are missing here and in Chennai.
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And the pitches England got were much better for batting.
 
Hasan123 said:
Lol the 2nd test they lost by 246 runs, even though they pushed it to day 5 they were hammered. Even in this current game they will lose by a heavy margin even though it will get to day 5.

For me competing is losing by less than 70 runs or losing by 4/5 wickets. England have competed in patches but for the most part it's been a one side series.
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Ok but there's no way Australia are going to be able to do even this much. They got beat so badly in Sri Lanka and India are a much stronger side than SL.
 
Pantani said:
Ok but there's no way Australia are going to be able to do even this much. They got beat so badly in Sri Lanka and India are a much stronger side than SL.
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Australia may not compete like this but no one expects them to anyway.
 
No one. The way India is playing at home, none of these teams have any chance against India.
 
Aman said:
Win the toss and still get hammered :)))

Happy to see this overrated England side get exposed.

India and SA are the two best sides in world cricket.
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There is a running argument in another thread with a poster maintaining they are the best team in the world.
 
sam_ahm said:
<b>I don't understand what is the point in playing a 5 match / 4 match Test series against England and Australia and these foreign teams when we already know what the result is going to be??</b> This is absolutely boring. Just play a three match series ad finish it off.

Why can't we instead play against Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, who will perform much better in these conditions. A series against Pakistan at the moment will be a thriller of a contest, even Bangla boys deserve a 3 match series as they will be far more competitive than England. Sri Lanka will also pose a better threat with Herath and other spinners in the mix.
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I actually am quite enjoying seeing India win again and again. After losing the last two series against England, can't get enough of it :)
 
This narrative of Eng competing in India has to be seen in context.

Eng won toss 3 times out of 4. Eng got pretty much flat wickets so batsmen scored some runs. But look at the results,

2nd test - Lost by 8 wickets
3rd test - Lost by 246 runs
4th test - Lost by an inning

It has been an absolute hammering here. Not sure if they have actually competed. I am sure if super road was served to all teams and they win most tosses, they can draw 1-2 game as well. We already saw what Eng did on rank turners in BD.
 
England got amazing pitches in the series, if they had to deal with what the proteas received, 5 tests would have been over in 2 weeks (combined) I still think India will be pretty disappointed to lose out on a win bcz of a patta in Rajkot
 
This whole argument that England have done better than NZ and SA is a hard one to reconcile given the context of toss wins, injuries and poor catching from India and very good batting pitches.
 
In terms of raw experience England is more experienced. Perhaps little weak in the spin department. But they simply ran into two spinners and a batsman in their peak of powers.
 
Sin Nombre said:
This whole argument that England have done better than NZ and SA is a hard one to reconcile given the context of toss wins, injuries and poor catching from India and very good batting pitches.
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Despite the huge defeats, there were times where we were in good positions against a highly motivated Indian side (gunning for the #1 ranking). The problem was we weren't good enough to take advantage and finish off the Indians.
 
My opinion of England has been lowered after this series.

For starters, why have a 400+ wicket taker Anderson in your stables but not play him for all tests?
 
These non Asian teams are pathetic against even a simple offspin. How can you expect them to win a series in the UAE or India? They will win one test here and there on a very flat wicket but that's the max these days for these sides.

They used to have good players of spin but nowadays its max one bat in a batting line up. England is probably the only side who could score 300+ regularly thanks to Moeen etc.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
These non Asian teams are pathetic against even a simple offspin. How can you expect them to win a series in the UAE or India? They will win one test here and there on a very flat wicket but that's the max these days for these sides.
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I think we have to conclude that the side with the most teeth in Asian conditions is.....wait for it.....the.....West Indies!!!
 
Australia - can't do worse than 4-0 & I expect them to make India bat 6 times at least in those 4 Test.✌️
 
MMHS said:
Australia - can't do worse than 4-0 & I expect them to make India bat 6 times at least in those 4 Test.✌️
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Off topic, but since I've caught you today, I wanted to ask your opinion.

Did you think Pakistan had a chance to win the test match when the score was 440-8 and Asad and Yasir had batted out 50 odd runs without breaking a sweat?
 
Buffet said:
This narrative of Eng competing in India has to be seen in context.

Eng won toss 3 times out of 4. Eng got pretty much flat wickets so batsmen scored some runs. But look at the results,

2nd test - Lost by 8 wickets
3rd test - Lost by 246 runs
4th test - Lost by an inning

It has been an absolute hammering here. Not sure if they have actually competed. I am sure if super road was served to all teams and they win most tosses, they can draw 1-2 game as well. We already saw what Eng did on rank turners in BD.
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Adding one more inning loss after winning toss on a super flat wicket. I think Eng has played even worse than SA and NZ. Got super flat tracks in this series, packed team with batsmen and put some scores. But that's not really competing. Hardly took wickets and lost 4 tests by a big margin.

I think even Aus may compete better.
 
Napa said:
I actually am quite enjoying seeing India win again and again. After losing the last two series against England, can't get enough of it :)
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Touche! The whinging and crying by the usual suspects makes it even sweeter. Just wish Kohli had made a triple in Mumbai (I know being greedy here but a man can certainly dream and as the great man himself said dreams do come true ) :70:
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Off topic, but since I've caught you today, I wanted to ask your opinion.

Did you think Pakistan had a chance to win the test match when the score was 440-8 and Asad and Yasir had batted out 50 odd runs without breaking a sweat?
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NO.

PAK went that close, because bowlers punched above their weight with bat & Asad played the innings of his life. Having best part of 3 days left, Smith declared with 5 wickets at hand because he knew what sort of monumental target he was setting.

Big chases never happens with tail batting - take any random pick of 350+ chases, it had been done by top 6, particularly top 4. The way Azhar, YK threw their wicket after being the senior most players & being in middle for 4+ hours - business usual was a 189 runs defeat; it happened to be 39, may be once in 10 attempts - the random one came at 1st attempt for PAK.

It takes 10 balls to get 10 wickets - no matter how good you bat or how comfortable you are, when you need to bat 150+ overs to chase a target on Day 4 & 5 wicket - you are bound to get that 1 ball in every 80-90 balls. Every big chase needs a daddy innings - either a 170-200 sort of marathon, when one batsman holds one end or a blasting 100-125, which eats up the target by 25%-35% in no time. Asad's type great efforts can only make it close, which it did.

I knew from ball 1 that PAK won't chase it - to avoid emotional back-lash, didn't mention that; but you can check in many posts I did mention that even if they don't win, it's a great effort, full credit should be given.
 
By the look of it Bangladesh may do best in that one off game.

Australia will be more or less the same, unless they have really learnt a lot from that hammering they took in Sri Lanka recently. The only advantage Australia have is a more potent pace attack in Starc and Hazlewood, I think foreign teams should continue to give importance to pace bowling when they tour India, because there ain't a spinner in the world that Indians won't thrash (may be except Yasir). Nathan Lyon's experience will also come in a little handy as compared to Ali and Rashid.

Australia's batting though may be weaker than England and will struggle even more.
 
Can Bangladesh troll Pakistan by winning/ drawing against hobbits?
 
MMHS said:
Australia - can't do worse than 4-0 & I expect them to make India bat 6 times at least in those 4 Test.✌️
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An Australian 11 that can compete in India? 4/5 bowlers? 2 out and out spinners in a 4 man attack? Or 2 out and out spinners and one Maxwell type bowler with 2 quick bowlers?

I think Australia may suprise some people in India, maybe a 3-1 defeat but some good games in the series with Australia giving India 1 or 2 scares. There fielding won't be as bad as England's.
 
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Tusker said:
Touche! The whinging and crying by the usual suspects makes it even sweeter. Just wish Kohli had made a triple in Mumbai (I know being greedy here but a man can certainly dream and as the great man himself said dreams do come true ) :70:
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Not only did India win but the end was anything but boring! Also great seeing Rahul's and Nair's innings.

Next up, Bangladesh followed by Australia :)
 
Hasan123 said:
An Australian 11 that can compete in India? 4/5 bowlers? 2 out and out spinners in a 4 man attack? Or 2 out and out spinners and one Maxwell type bowler with 2 quick bowlers?

I think Australia may suprise some people in India, maybe a 3-1 defeat but some good games in the series with Australia giving India 1 or 2 scares. There fielding won't be as bad as England's.
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Maxwell type bowlers are biggest trap in India. In general, wickets are good for batting (unless those are rank turner), where application & good concentration can help top players to post big innings. If you look at this recent series, ENG had 6 Centuries, compared to that IND 9; but look at the size of some Indian innings!!!. In that regard, I actually think, key to success in IND is fresh, strike bowlers & constant attack. In last 35 years, 5 teams have won 6 series (7 if we take the 1998-99 PAK as 3 Test Series) in IND - WI, ENG, PAK, PAK, SAF, AUS, ENG - every time tourists had at least 4 strike bowlers, & may be a 5th bowler. The Test that PAK won at Bangalore, Imran picked Jafar as 4th bowler after Akram, Tauseef & Qasim - that time, he was among top 5 ranked bowler, on a wicket, where current ENG team would have gone with 1 bowler & 6 all-rounders! (because, on turner, what you only need is to drop the ball on spot, rest will be done by the wicket - so Ashwin becomes Moeen or Moeen becomes Ashwin, depending on wicket, more than anything else).

Indian batsmen are habituated to play big, real big innings in Ranji (every years, there are several 250+ innings), on their favorable condition, once set, they can bat for even 10-12 hours, for that average bowlers hardly can be successful in India, unless it's a shocking wicket. ONLY way & I repeat, only way to compete in IND is to take 4.5 bowlers & 4 of them strike bowlers. Most teams make a mistake thinking spinners like Shastri, UV, Yadav, Sehwag, even Tendulkar are part-time spinners; but actually they are far better spinner than what their stats suggests. They play as batsman, hence don't focus on bowling, but I can tell you had ST or Sehwag bowled 35 overs/Test, would have been better pair than Bhai & Bhai - I actually will take Afridi & Malik over Adil & Moeen as my specialist spinner. Bottom line is, Maxwell type spinners are not going to trouble much unless it's Umesh, Ishant, Shami or Arron at the batting end.

4 extremely fit strike bowlers - either 2+2 or even 3+1 combination & I don't mind if the best batsman of those 4 bats behind McGrath or MacGill; is a must. Add, a 5th bowler, who has to be better than Max either with bat or ball. It's possible to win Test in India with pace bowlers - even Kasprowich has won a Test at Bangalore; but it's impossible to win with 10 "All-rounders", if they are Moeen or Woakes class with ball.

Josh, Starc are must & they have to be fit to bowl 320 overs in 4 Tests. Add, a very steady, miser 3rd pacer; which Mitch can be + 2 spinners. Leg spinners won't work much in India, because players read the leggi in air, big turn leggi doesn't work much against batsmen with soft wrists, good footwork & very good reading ability - Lyon should be one & a tight lefti. After all these, Smith has to win at least 3 tosses, & Aussies will have to bat beyond their usual limit. Only then, it can be 1-3 for the tourists.

However, ENG/AUS/SAF/NZ has nothing to be shamed of - next round of tours, IND will be in receiving end of mauling - that's modern cricket for you. After this hammering, ECB, CA, UCBSA, CNZ curators won't listen to their accountants.
 
Who would have thought Steve Smiths Australia with Steven Okeefe as the star performer will be in a match winning position on a pitch like this? :yk3
 
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That should be the end of Latham in LOI's.

Simply not cut out for the shorter formats.

Guptill IN, Latham OUT.
 
England and New Zealand are good teams, but they don't have ME

Steve+O+Keefe+T20+Bash+League+Portrait+Session+2QtiCS8aEIFl.jpg
 
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