No Indians in Kerry Packer's WSC?

[akheR]

We all know how important Australian billionaire Kerry Packer's tournament, World Series Cricket, has been for cricket.
But as I was taking a look at the World XI squad (there were separate Australian and WI teams)...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/worldseries/content/squad/321376.html

...of the 21 players (seems to have missed PAK's Haroon Rasheed on CricInfo) there were

9 from Pakistan
6 from England
5 from South Africa (says for how long they've been producing talent)
1 from New Zealand hadlee)

...but not a single Indian. Why ?

 

[W63L35]

India was "minnow" at that time....like Bangladesh or Zimbabwe were we a few years ago.

 

[akheR]

India was "minnow" at that time....like Bangladesh or Zimbabwe are we a few years ago.

But from Bangladesh, which is a Test nation only for one decade (India was there for a longer time in the late 70s), you'd at least get or even Tamim Iqbal in such tournament today.

 

[Kwremb]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

Kapil would have been there surely?

 

[the Great Khan]

in such a tournamnet today you wouldnt get any pakistanis as the BCCI would run it..lol

 

[the Great Khan]

Kapil would have been there surely?

not when you can choose from Imran and some of the saffers who were pretty awesome. Kapil was just ok..nothing special in those days..

 

[RWAC]

Our players were not greedy, neither back then nor now.

Besides we saw what BCCI does when you go play for other leagues. :icl:

 

[kungfu90]

They had rubbish team.

 

[Convict]

It wasn't a proper World XI.

It was a bunch of very good non Australian players that Kerry Packer could convince to pay for him.

The BCCI was also very supportive of the ACB at the time.

 

[Kwremb]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

not when you can choose from Imran and some of the saffers who were pretty awesome. Kapil was just ok..nothing special in those days..

True there were Hadlee & Botham as well

 

[SL_Fan]

Kapil would have been there surely?

Ahead of who? Imran and Hadlee? I think not.

 

[SL_Fan]

BTW India had been playing Test cricket for nearly 50 years by that stage LOL

 

[Kwremb]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

Ahead of who? Imran and Hadlee? I think not.

If I was making a world XI for exhibition I'd play all the rounders for entertainment and sell tickets, it's a good business move

 

[TM Riddle]

They had rubbish team.

they?

 

[TM Riddle]

gavaskar was special and so were kapil , bedi and vishwanath.

 

[akheR]

Kapil Dev made his Test/ODI debut in '78, so his intl. career literally began while WSC was still on, and considering that few put the world on fire in their first games, I think Kapil paaji was simply not a celebrity back then.

 

[akheR]

in such a tournamnet today you wouldnt get any pakistanis as the BCCI would run it..lol

There are no Pakistanis in IPL because we're simply rubbish.

 

[Convict]

gavaskar was special and so were kapil , bedi and vishwanath.

Yeah

India would have had some players who would have joined a proper world XI- of the best XI players outside Australia.

But that didn't happen.

1. It wasn't a proper world XI. It was a team of XI players from various countries around the world who could be convinced to play for Packer.
2. The BCCI strongly supported the ACB so discouraged it's players from going.

WSC was the equivalent of the Indian Cricket League.

The Australian teams did not include Hughes, Border or Thomson (for a few years).

 

[akheR]

Vengsarkar too was already making a name for himself then, apart from Gavaskar and Viswanath.

 

[AFM]

WSC was renowned for its amount of fast bowlers.

Are we really surprised then?

 

[W63L35]

Yeah

India would have had some players who would have joined a proper world XI- of the best XI players outside Australia.

But that didn't happen.

1. It wasn't a proper world XI. It was a team of XI players from various countries around the world who could be convinced to play for Packer.
2. The BCCI strongly supported the ACB so discouraged it's players from going.

WSC was the equivalent of the Indian Cricket League.

The Australian teams did not include Hughes, Border or Thomson (for a few years).

From what I have read..... your all assumptions are totally wrong......here is why;

ICL had "has been" players... where as .. cream of the TOP class cricketer were contacted and were hired by WSC.

Border CAME into picture and made their debuts.... BECAUSE of leading players leaving for WSC... Hughes was a rookie..... have made debut only a year before WSC. Please check their debut dates.

Thompson was injured .... and recovering from shoulder injury...and genuinely was the only one when refused the join.

2. The BCCI strongly supported the ACB so discouraged it's players from going.

BCCI (or any other cricket board) was NEVER involved because .... players were contacted/contracted secretly and the cricket boards found out about the player's contract from the media. So BCCI discouraging players never came into play.

 

[DarthSImian]

India was "minnow" at that time....like Bangladesh or Zimbabwe were we a few years ago.

And, they won the World cup 4 years later

 

[Lethalweapon]

India was "minnow" at that time....like Bangladesh or Zimbabwe were we a few years ago.

Typical Pakistani bias. INDIA HAD ALREADY WON TEST SERIES IN ENGLAND AND WEST INDIES by then.

 

[Bilbo]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

India was "minnow" at that time....like Bangladesh or Zimbabwe were we a few years ago.

What? Gavaskar, the spin quarter, vishwanath ? Pak was in the same vein too,

 

[Bilbo]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

Kapil would have been there surely?

Kapil had not burst on the scene back then

 

[Bilbo]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

People commenting here need to dig a little bit more. Imran was not the Imran back then as well, he himself transformed after Kerry packer.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Some garbage comments coming from typical users again, Kapil was just ok? LOL Okayish players don't beat the crap out of West Indies's ATG team with the ball as well as with the bat. In many ways and against certain top oppositions, Kapil even outperformed some of his other contemporaries of that time. His attacking lower order batting stood out in that era and as a bowler he was a work horse for India.

Convict and Akhers are right, Kapil had just started back then and wasn't a big name and that wasn't really a proper world XI.



As for the minnow comment, we had won test series in England and West Indies by then as already mentioned by LS, had a renowned spin attack, Gundappa, Jimmy, Vengsarkar like champs.

 

[miandadrules]

Tony Grieg had a big part in selecting players for WSC.

He was quite close to a lot of the Pakistanis.

 

[Hussey_fan]

strange

 

[change of heart]

mysterious

 

[endymion248]

What? Gavaskar, the spin quarter, vishwanath ? Pak was in the same vein too,

Yeah, that's their true value

 

[TAK]

Kapil would have been there surely?

i'm pretty certain world series was just before kapil's time otherwise he would surely have been there

the profile of indian players wasn't as high then as it is now and there wasn't the blanket tv coverage that there is now

bit of a mystery why gavaskar wasn't there though ??

many pakistanis played country cricket at the time, from memory: sadiq, majid, zaheer, younis ahmed, miandad, intikhab, imran, sarfraz, mushtaq and asif iqbal

i never paid much attention to indian cricketers in county cricket at the time so i may be wrong but i only remember bishen singh bedi and farouk engineer playing county cricket prior to wsc

the west indies team in wsc was more or less their first team and believe me that was one powerhouse team, (the finest team i ever had the privilege to watch - bar none)

the rest of the word team comprised creme de la creme players of the other nations the indian players of the era didn't fall into that category

wsc was the making of imran khan as a real force

shame that the records from that tournament are not officially recognised

read the players of that generation that played and they will invariably say it was the highest standard of cricket they competed in

on the downside bans were handed out by national boards, this particularly affected pakistan's tour of england in 1978 where our touring b team were soundly tonked, the only bright spop being the emergence of a certain mohson khan sahib

 

[Yossarian]

True there were Hadlee & Botham as well

No, there was not Botham at the time WSC started. It could even be argued that Botham got his chance at international level earlier than expected due to most of the top England players opting for packer's WSC or more specifically, the absence of Tony Greig.
Similarly, David Gower also owed his early entry onto the Test arena due to Packer's WSC england players being banned by the England & Wales Cricket Board.

 

[wrongun]

Remember this was a rebel tournament started purely for Packers financial interests (and unlike the IPL, no CA board members were getting a slice of the action).

Players who took part in it were banned by their home countries from test cricket. Perhaps the Indians were unwilling to take the risk of never playing tests again (remember when it started, everyone thought it would fail, it nearly did. They weren't playing at the SCG/MCG in those days but at crappy suburban grounds).

The Pakistanis may have known/trusted that if Imran said they could play, the board would never ban him/them.

Is it also possible Pakistani cricketers had no other cricket on at the time it wa played but Indians were busy with domestic or something?

 

[Yossarian]

Most of Packer's WSC Pakistani players were also playing in country cricket at the time, and were household names to cricket fans in England as well as Australia.

Bishen Bedi and Farokh Engineer were the only Indian cricketers playing in county cricket at the time, and whilst Bedi's international career was coming to an end, Engineer's had already ended.

Furthermore, the need for spinners was already covered with Mushtaq Mohammad and Derek Underwood in the World XI squad, and similarly, Alan Knott and Taslim Arif covered the wicketkeeping slot in the squad.

All in all, there simply was not any Indian player at the time who could justify a place in the World XI squad ahead of any of those already included.

 

[TAK]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

taslim arif was in wsc ??

ps javelin your post reads much like mine you old codger...

 

[akheR]

Is it also possible Pakistani cricketers had no other cricket on at the time it wa played but Indians were busy with domestic or something?

There was already well-thought policy to send Pak players for county cricket (I think it was AH Kardar's idea) in order to improve their skills, and some say that's why Pakistan didn't have its traditional 'minnow decades' after earning its Test status ('53) and some chaps like Asif Iqbal were literally stars for their county teams (Kent, namely) so I doubt that they didn't have 'other cricket'.

 

[TAK]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

Remember this was a rebel tournament started purely for Packers financial interests (and unlike the IPL, no CA board members were getting a slice of the action).

Players who took part in it were banned by their home countries from test cricket. Perhaps the Indians were unwilling to take the risk of never playing tests again (remember when it started, everyone thought it would fail, it nearly did. They weren't playing at the SCG/MCG in those days but at crappy suburban grounds).

The Pakistanis may have known/trusted that if Imran said they could play, the board would never ban him/them.

Is it also possible Pakistani cricketers had no other cricket on at the time it wa played but Indians were busy with domestic or something?

imran was a junior player at the time so would not have had any influence on the pak players all of whom were established and well known through county cricket performances

not many indians fitted the bill, gavaskar is the only omission that stands out

 

[Yossarian]

taslim arif was in wsc ??

ps javelin your post reads much like mine you old codger...

Apologies.
I had started to write the post, became side tracked, and you jumped in before I submitted.
Anyway, both of us can't be wrong!

ps As for Gavaskar, the opening slots in the squad were covered by Dennis Amiss, Eddie Barlow, Barry Richards and Majid Khan - all of whom, for various reasons, more suited to Packers WSC tournaments, and/or more marketable to Australian spectators and tv audiences, than Gavaskar.

 

[TAK]

No Indian in Kerry Packer's WSC ?

Apologies.
I had started to write the post, became side tracked, and you jumped in before I submitted.
Anyway, both of us can't be wrong!

ps As for Gavaskar, the opening slots in the squad were covered by Dennis Amiss, Eddie Barlow, Barry Richards and Majid Khan - all of whom, for various reasons, more suited to Packers WSC tournaments, and/or more marketable to Australian spectators and tv audiences, than Gavaskar.

our posts are eerily similar

now tasleem arif , was he definitley there at wsc ??

i do remember him scoring s double hundred for us in a test match but don't rember him being part of wsc ??

 

[Yossarian]

There was already well-thought policy to send Pak players for county cricket (I think it was AH Kardar's idea) in order to improve their skills, and some say that's why Pakistan didn't have its traditional 'minnow decades' after earning its Test status ('53) and some chaps like Asif Iqbal were literally stars for their county teams (Kent, namely) so I doubt that they didn't have 'other cricket'.

Asif was the 'star', and later captain, at Kent. Mushtaq was captain at Northamptonshire, and had Bishen Bedi and Sarfraz as team-mates, Sadiq and Zaheer were at Glocestershire, Majid at Glamorgan, Intikhab at Surrey, Imran at Worcestershire and then Sussex, Miandad team-mates with Imran Khan at Sussex, and then later joined Glamorgan.

All of those named above played county cricket at the same time, and formed the nucleus of Pakistan's team during the 70's.

The above list does not include many others who were playing club league cricket or minor counties cricket at the time.

 

[Yossarian]

our posts are eerily similar

now tasleem arif , was he definitley there at wsc ??

i do remember him scoring s double hundred for us in a test match but don't rember him being part of wsc ??

He was there. Check the link.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/squad/321376.html

 

[Napa]

BTW India had been playing Test cricket for nearly 50 years by that stage LOL

BTW, India had already been ranked #1 and won series in WI and England by that stage, something other Asian teams took much longer to achieve.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

India was a minnow back then.

 

[Chrish]

Does anyone own the WSC series? Is it even fully available in DVD?

 

[Tusker]

India was a minnow back then.

India was Ranked #1 for 15 Months between Apr-1973 to Jun-1974 ... something the rest of our Asian neighbors and NZ all put together have not managed to come close to it 45 yrs later. So if India was a minnow they had lots of company lol

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_Test_Championship#Historical_rankings
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]

 

[anoop]

India was a minnow back then.

No they were not. They already defeated sobers West Indies team. Guys like gavaskar, vishwanath, bedi, Chandrasekhar, were considered world class.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

No they were not. They already defeated sobers West Indies team. Guys like gavaskar, vishwanath, bedi, Chandrasekhar, were considered world class.

Didn't Gavaskar waste 150 balls and scored 30 runs or something, he wasn't a good odi player.

 

[anoop]

Didn't Gavaskar waste 150 balls and scored 30 runs or something, he wasn't a good odi player.

Kerry packer picked for test matches too. Odis became popular in India only after World cup win.

 

[anoop]

Didn't Gavaskar waste 150 balls and scored 30 runs or something, he wasn't a good odi player.

No when gavaskar started ODIs were not taken seriously by him and many others. Just see his performance in later half of his career.

Gavaskar played only 40 Odis in first 12-13 years of his career but just look his last 3 years where he played 40 odis more in just 3-4 years he averages 40+.

 

[anoop]

Gavaskar in first 52 Odis averaged 25 with strikerate of 56
Gavaskar after 1984 played 56 Odis averaged 45+ with strikerate of 67.

 

[moghul]

India had some good players those days but none of them had any star power.

 

[MenInG]

Kerry Packer, an Australian businessman, was keen to exploit the untapped potential of one-day cricket by staging a tri-series involving Australia, West Indies and Rest of the World teams. In the years to follow, floodlit games, coloured kit and stump microphones were to become commonplace as a result of the overarching impact of the Kerry Packer World Series Cricket.

The contests involved Test matches, known as ‘SuperTests’ and limited-overs games. The first season in 1977-78 played Down Under saw WSC Australia play two three-match series against WSC West Indies and WSC World XI. The second season in 1978-79 featured a triangular Test series among the three teams in Australia and the latter half of the season saw a five-match series between WSC Australia and the WSC West Indies in the Caribbean.

Here, we take a look at the top three batsmen and bowlers in World Series Cricket.

Top-three batsmen

1. Greg Chappell - 14 matches, 1415 runs, 5x100s, 4x50s

Greg, younger of the two Chappell brothers, had an appetite for big runs. In a career spanning 14 years, he played 87 Tests for Australia, scoring 7,110 runs including 24 hundreds and 31 fifties. His 2,331 runs in 74 ODIs were studded with three centuries and 14 fifties.

2. Vivian Richards - 14 matches, 1281 runs, 4x100s, 4x50s

West Indies’ Viv Richards, one of the greatest batsmen to have ever played the game, was renowned for his aggressive batting. He racked up 8,540 and 6,721 runs in 121 Tests and 187 ODIs, respectively.

3. Ian Chappell - 14 matches, 893 runs, 1x100s, 5x50s

Former Australian captain Ian, the elder of the two Chappell brothers, played 75 Tests between 1964 and 1980 and made 5,345 runs.

ALSO READ | From the archives: Tony Greig on World Series Cricket

Top-three bowlers

1. Dennis Lillee - 14 matches, 67 wickets, 4x5w

Lillee’s rhythm, aggression and control made him the foremost Australian fast bowlers of his generation. A formidable talent, Lillee had taken 355 Test wickets on his retirement from international cricket.

2. Andy Roberts - 13 matches, 50 wickets, 1x5w

West Indies bowling great Andy Roberts went on to finish his career with 202 Test wickets. Roberts, in his maiden county season, picked 100 wickets and finished at the top of the bowling averages.

3. Michael Holding - 9 matches, 35 wickets, 1x5w

The former West Indies fast bowler, who took 249 wickets in 61 Tests at 23.68, was part of a fearsome quartet of pacers — Holding, Andy Roberts, Colin Croft, and Joel Garner — that made batsmen shiver in their shoes.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...ds-lillee-roberts-holding/article31482680.ece

 

[Junaids]

People remember Packer’s ODIs because nobody had seen coloured clothes and white balls before.

But his main product was the SuperTests, and they were the highest quality cricket ever played.

You need to understand that:

1. Australia and the West Indies were the world’s two strongest teams in recent international cricket.

2. South Africa was in exile, but had been the world’s best team, and Barry Richards and Mike Procter had near-identical averages in the 77-79 SuperTests as in their brief Test career nine years earlier.

3. Several England players were chosen due to their Ashes profile.

4. Several Pakistan players were picked because they were the world’s third strongest team at the time.

5. No India players were picked because the domineering Packer considered them to be a weak team. The spinners were elderly and unsuited to Aussie conditions. Gavaskar was an international joke for spending 174 balls scoring 36 not out at the 1975 World Cup. Kapil Dev was still unknown.

Two events led Packer to conclude that India were a bunch of cowards. The first was the Gavaskar innings at the World Cup, but the second was the surrender at Sabina Park in 75-76. Australia and the West Indies had just played out a similarly brutal series, but India declared with five wickets in hand at Jamaica to set the West Indies just 13 to win.

These events led Packer to conclude that India were soft and that their players had nothing to offer.

 

[Swashbuckler]

People remember Packer’s ODIs because nobody had seen coloured clothes and white balls before.

But his main product was the SuperTests, and they were the highest quality cricket ever played.

You need to understand that:

1. Australia and the West Indies were the world’s two strongest teams in recent international cricket.

2. South Africa was in exile, but had been the world’s best team, and Barry Richards and Mike Procter had near-identical averages in the 77-79 SuperTests as in their brief Test career nine years earlier.

3. Several England players were chosen due to their Ashes profile.

4. Several Pakistan players were picked because they were the world’s third strongest team at the time.

5. No India players were picked because the domineering Packer considered them to be a weak team. The spinners were elderly and unsuited to Aussie conditions. Gavaskar was an international joke for spending 174 balls scoring 36 not out at the 1975 World Cup. Kapil Dev was still unknown.

Two events led Packer to conclude that India were a bunch of cowards. The first was the Gavaskar innings at the World Cup, but the second was the surrender at Sabina Park in 75-76. Australia and the West Indies had just played out a similarly brutal series, but India declared with five wickets in hand at Jamaica to set the West Indies just 13 to win.

These events led Packer to conclude that India were soft and that their players had nothing to offer.

Sabina Park episode wasn't a surrender, Indians had lost half the side because of injuries and WI were deliberately bowling beamers after that 400 chase, ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] he will tell you. The thread where you will find those posts http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?279636-Was-it-right-for-Indian-cricketers-to-choose-honour-over-money-and-reject-World-Series-Contract

From an old Sportstar article:

It was against such a backdrop that I asked Sunil, once he was back in India: "That head-hunting beamer we saw you barely manage to evade at Sabina Park in DD's Samachar highlights, how did it feel to measure up to it from Holding?" "Which beamer?" Sunil slyly sought to know, his tone making it obvious that beamers made no one beam. "There were so many of them bowled at us. Both Holding and Daniel bowled them regularly. Their technique was simple - mix a beamer with two-three bouncers in an over. Then, having shaken the batsman's confidence, produce a fast straight yorker to go through his defence. I did ask wicket-keeper Deryck Murray why they were still after me when they had virtually won that Sabina Park decider with three of our key men injured. Deryck said he had spoken to Clive about it, but they had simply been asked to turn their eyes away if they did not want to look!"

We can all agree that [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] knows more about cricket from that era than most posters here. Here is his post from the 'worst collapse' thread

I think, we need to know a bit of history of that Kingston Test. It's more glory than shame for India if we know the actual story.

In '76, at PoSpain, against 3 WI spinners, India chased over 400, which made Loyd simply mad out of his normal composed personality, as he declared on 4th morning after assurance from his bowlers. He abused the 3 spinners after the match & literally shut down the path for WI spinners. During his captaincy, I don't think any spinner ever played Test for the next 9 years (I guess, Clide Butts played one, but replacing Loyd for injury).

The series was 1-1 & the last (4th) Test was at Sabina Park, Kingston, Jamaica; notoriously famous for uneven bounce. WI went with 4 fast men & Holding at 23, was angry enough after the mouthful he got in last Test, for not getting a single wicket, defending 400+. WI Fast bowlers unsporting started to target Indian batsmen with 5/6 men on leg side & the local umpires kept silent. The worst was for Holding & Julien to bowl 5/6 bouncers in a over with the second new ball to the Indian tail. Indian Captain Bisen Bedi, the great character that he was, declared at 306/6 (I guess) to protect his bowlers.

WI took a 80+ lead & in 2nd Innings, & once India closed the deficit, WI became desperate; even beamers were thrown by local boy Holding (He is right, he was lucky not to play during Match Referee days) & the local umpires didn't have the balls to talk with Lyod. 3/4 Indian batsmen were hurt badly & Patel was hospitalized (I am the last person to be convinced that, Gavasker, Vengsarker, Amarnath & Vishwanath were sacred by the pace). In protest to this, Bedi waited till India avoided the innings defeat & declared with four of his bowlers not coming at all in either innings.

I think Bedi was criticized for not attending the podium later, but in his illustrious career, Loyd will never be able to talk eye-ball to eye-ball for that Jamaica Test. If this Jamaica Test is referred as a scared/fixed great collapse, than I have to say that Cricket pornography version (T20) has perverted our taste.

Sunny, Bedi and Kirmani were offered contracts (via Tony Greig) but they refused. They were keen on recruiting Gavaskar but Bedi stopped him, resulting in a lfe long enmity between the two stalwarts. Not sure about Vishy, read somewhere that he was offered but unsure about the veracity of the claim.WSC was played between 1977 to 1979, Kapil made his debut in late 1978 so was an unknown commodity. Packer's was a rebel league like ICL, BCCI was a supporter of ACB those days and toured downunder thrice within a span of 7 years despite being a mediocre team. Bedi (then captain) hated Packer/WSC and even BCCI was against the concept. Everything has been discussed to death in that thread by FC, too many posts so not going to quote all of them here. Just this one, you know since he is MMHS.

What I have read from Gavarskar's own book (Idols), the story is completely different. In 1977, Tony Greig was assigned to hire Indian players for WSC and he contacted 3 Indian players (arguably 4 players, Gavaskar didn't mention Kirmani). At that time B.S. Bedi was Indian Captain and he declined to join WSC in his own style (a bit surprising for Tony because Mrs. Bedi was an Aussie). Bedi was selected for World Squad for 1970-71 AUS tour (An alternate cricket tour between AUS Vs Sober's Rest of The World, as replacement of banned SAF team), therefore he was indeed recognized among best players of that era.

GR Vishi was an State of Karnataka employee (don't know his ranks but it was a long term career job), and he used to play for team IND with lien from his employers (he couldn't join Counties also for that reason, his employers didn't allow him 6 months leave). Those days, cricketers didn't earn enough to cover a career long earning of a Govt. Service with benefits, gratuity & pension from couple of years cricket and leaving for WSC meant he would have been out of Indian cricket for good (probably Karnataka cricket as well) - so, Vishi declined.

Gavaskar was the last man and he was by far the highest earning Indian cricketer that time (played for Somerset as well) - from his own words, he was almost convinced by the way his good friend Tony promoted WSC and it's prospects to him. By that time, his 3 bosom friends across Border (Mazid, Imran, Zaheer) already had accepted the offer, and Gavaskar was indeed interested to join the best players on earth. He almost certainly would have joined but for his brother in law - Gundappa R Vishwanath, who finally convinced him to dodge the bullet. ECB (TCCB) didn't call back any of their WSC players and there was a good chance that BCCI won't have either, which GR Vishi could sense. Unofficially (which I read from some blog post, so not creditable source), Gavaskar was rewarded by being appointed Captain (of Indian team) in that same year.

That's all there is to this thread. You can always refer to interviews of Bedi and Gideon Haigh.

 

[Swashbuckler]

No India players were picked because the domineering Packer considered them to be a weak team.

These events led Packer to conclude that India were soft and that their players had nothing to offer.

How do you know what was in Packer's mind at that time? Maybe your opinion but you can't claim to speak on behalf of someone. And why did Packer send Tony Greig to sign Sunny and co? You can either continue to be a frog in the well (proverb in South Asia) or try to absorb differing views. I know you are going to repeat this same stuff ad nauseum but just a suggestion.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - there is a similarity between you and me. Both born in Bangladesh, you to an English father and me to a Bangladeshi parents with roots from west - two countries now by the name of India and Pakistan, and now you live in Australia and me in Canada, both love our cricket, both a bit nostalgic about the past and both are fans of PAK cricket, which brought us here in PP. But, there is a telling difference - my emotion never gets better of my good judgement and I never insult my rivals, even for genuine cause, let alone with fabricated stuffs. That's the only reason, despite stressing the mods' patience to breaking point several times (always almost forced to do - I never started slinging mud here), I am still here and every poster here has a place for me - some might not admit though. Reason - I am honest and I write what I can back, what I can explain and what I can prove from stats; but most importantly - I don't twist facts to fit in my story, and never insult people/nation uncalled for, though my personal loyalty/alliance might be different.

Coming to the WSC - what you have written here is just not blunt lie, it's disgustingly insulting as well - and worse is, you know that as well. In 1970s, Kerry Packer would have died for one Sunny Gavaskar & one VR Vishwanath for his circus - some of the players in his squad didn't have the worth of carrying kits for those two. During 1977 English Summer, Tony Greig was assigned to hire his team - one of the earliest guy (I heard it from Tony's own voice, sometimes in late 1990, during commentary - most probably in a masters game) he approached was Sunil Manohar Gavaskar - the reason, he already had one Barry Richards to open for him, he wanted Gavaskar to partner BA Richards. In a masters game, BA Richrads scored a marvelous 100 (the best ever I have see from a 50+ guy), and Tony referred to that - "..... I desperately tried to pair Barry with Sunny for Packer cricket, but it never happened".

In 1971-72, World tour of Australia, Sir Gary picked three Indians - Sunny, Bedi & Engineer, and three Pakistanis - Intekhab, Zaheer & Asif Masood. Three Indians played 14 games, three Pakistanis 11 - and that series was also entirely funded by Channel Nine. What you have said here is almost blasphemous - it's not Kerry Packer, rather Indians rejected WSC. It was not Kerry Packer, rather Indians decided that Packer's offer wasn't worthy enough. Here, Pakistanis and Indians have a reason to be biased and that's quite understandable - but I wonder why you decided to be the "Shikhandi" (A character from Mahabharat, obviously you can understand that his/her act wasn't famous for reputation) of PAK cricket - we both are fans of PCT (and I have no shame to admit that), isn't it enough?


Coming to the selection of WSC players - what you have written here is not only false, rather rubbish. This is what is actual story - don't call for reference, because my sources are multiple, but mostly from the horses mouth - Benaud, ChappelI, Tony .... Kerry Packer himself.

Packer first selected his two Captains - ChappelI for team Australia and Tony for RoTW, and they started to draft players for their team - 16 each (17 men squad). Packer himself was trying to hire WIN cricketers and he successfully drafted the entire squad bar Kalicharan, who was convinced (lured) by WICB in exchange of Captaincy, which Kali later regretted (read Wisden copy of 1982 or 83, forgot exactly). Now, Ian Chappel was a egomaniac, who decided not to pick Thompson (please don't tell me that Packer didn't rate him as well - Thommo himself in 1999 WIN tour, while commenting expressed how desperate he was to join Packer, but he had to be politically correct, hence avoided IC's name) and Yellop (You know, he is good friend of Chappel bros....), from AUS squad of mid 1970s, but rest all joined him.

Toni started to hire players first from his own league - County cricket and it was the aging English players with sell by date joined him - Knott ( he was 32), Amiss (35), Underwood (33), Snow (36) & Woolmer (29) joined him. "Several English players were chosen for their Ashes profile" is a blunt lie - only 5 joined and the most successful four English players of 1977 Ashes were Boycott, Willis, Botham & Mike Hendricks - none of them joined Packers. Neither any youngster - Gower, Randal, Gooch, Edmonds.

Then, he targeted the easiest picks, the mercenaries - PAK players. Just like ICL, where almost entire PAK squad left for an unauthorized league risking their International career, I believe 9 PAK players signed for Packers over two seasons - Asif (Iqbal), Imran, Zaheer, Mazid, Sarfraz, Javed, Haroon Rashid, Mushtaq, Taslim Arif ....... now, please don't tell me that some of the names in that list were picked over Gavaskar, Bedi, Chandra, Kirmani, Vishy, Amarnath .... because of .... you know, courage. Then, he picked the rest squad from South Africans, players who had no home and had no identity - 5 of them joined. There was no Kiwi either - RJ Hadlee, Howarth & Turner declined. And, as a back-up WK to Knott, first Tony approached Kirmai, ended up signing Taslim Arif . It's quite laughable to think that Packer picked 17 players for a complete squad with several 5 day and one day games scheduled .... and then didn't rate the best Test opener of 1970s because of an ODI innings.

I am not sure, before writing on this, if you had done your home work or took a chance that others won't do their home work either - but trust me, your post didn't brighten your reputation here ......

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I don’t disagree with most of your points, but you have misunderstood some of mine.

Packer was a bully who was very similar to a certain orange world leader now. It was almost by chance that he assembled such a strong set of players.

As for India, I don’t actually agree with Packer. India had quite recently been a very strong team, but they - and England - did not really accept the new brutal way that Australia was playing cricket, and that declaration in Jamaica was a protest against a pace battery, not a Beamer barrage.

I am absolutely certain of that. I discussed it with both Clive Lloyd and Michael Manley (the former Jamaican PM who was in office at the time and at the ground) and both were categorical: there was no Beamer barrage!

India had been unsettled by how the West Indians had adapted their game after losing 5-1 in Australia three months earlier. They now played four quicks - but two of them were the gentle pace of Bernard Julian and Vanburn Holder. Andy Roberts was the fastest and Manley told me that he didn’t even play that match, which turned out to be true.

Meanwhile India had Mohinder Amarnath opening the bowling with Madan Lal, before reverting to the spin of Bedi, Venkat and Chandrasekhar.

Rather like in Australia three months earlier it was gentlemen versus hardened professionals, and it turned into the same massacre.

But whereas the West Indians had decided to beat the Aussies at their own game, the Indians were appalled and horrified. I don’t think they were cowards - but the bully Packer certainly did.

And Packer’s soft spot for Pakistan developed a year later: when they toured the Caribbean they faced the full attack of Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft and they stood up to them and didn’t complain.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I don’t disagree with most of your points, but you have misunderstood some of mine.

Packer was a bully who was very similar to a certain orange world leader now. It was almost by chance that he assembled such a strong set of players.

As for India, I don’t actually agree with Packer. India had quite recently been a very strong team, but they - and England - did not really accept the new brutal way that Australia was playing cricket, and that declaration in Jamaica was a protest against a pace battery, not a Beamer barrage.

I am absolutely certain of that. I discussed it with both Clive Lloyd and Michael Manley (the former Jamaican PM who was in office at the time and at the ground) and both were categorical: there was no Beamer barrage!

India had been unsettled by how the West Indians had adapted their game after losing 5-1 in Australia three months earlier. They now played four quicks - but two of them were the gentle pace of Bernard Julian and Vanburn Holder. Andy Roberts was the fastest and Manley told me that he didn’t even play that match, which turned out to be true.

Meanwhile India had Mohinder Amarnath opening the bowling with Madan Lal, before reverting to the spin of Bedi, Venkat and Chandrasekhar.

Rather like in Australia three months earlier it was gentlemen versus hardened professionals, and it turned into the same massacre.

But whereas the West Indians had decided to beat the Aussies at their own game, the Indians were appalled and horrified. I don’t think they were cowards - but the bully Packer certainly did.

And Packer’s soft spot for Pakistan developed a year later: when they toured the Caribbean they faced the full attack of Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft and they stood up to them and didn’t complain.

Let’s get one thing straight first - Tony Greig was Packer’s representative to recruit players for his renegade cricket league and he approached four Indian players: Sunil M Gavaskar, GR Vishwanath, ** Bedi & Syed MH Kirmani. Had they accepted, they would have played in WSC and unless you can convince me, Anthony William Greig was following the strict instructions of his bully boss Kerry Francis Bullmore Packer; not from his platonic love with the Indians.

Therefore, I tend to believe that it was Indian players that rejected the bully, not other way round. And, being an avid cricket enthusiast, I do believe that someone like Kerry Packer, who made billions selling cricket won’t pick Taslim Arif over Syed Kirmani, for his ..... courage - that little cricket he understood, you have to give it to him.

I actually think opposite - had India got a semi decent squad those days, Packer would have bought entire squad, at least tried to do so, because of the volume behind it. Doesn’t matter where Indian cricket economy was that time, but sheer volume always works - for that reason Raj Kapoor was still one of world’s highest paid actors in world even in colonial & just independent India ..... this is something what few trolls will never understand here, when it comes to BD cricket, but I am sure you know what I am trying to say here. India didn’t have a squad to compete with Packer rejects, let alone Packer players, hence Kerry Packer didn’t go for that - but, individuals are always beyond his team status in such drafts - that’s why Shakib Al Hasan is Shakib and Rashid Khan is sold for millions at IPL; and those four Indians I mentioned would have walked into any squad those days.

Rest part of your post is usual damage control - I do agree most of it, but unfortunately that’s not helping in this case; at least not sure how it is relevant to approach a batsman scoring 6k runs at 60+ average in a decade and his team opening with Amarnath........ West Indies adopted their game to a big size horse egg - which resulted conceding 400+ in 4th innings to lose a Test at home within three months of Australia experience - you have to invent a better logic here.

Regarding the beemer - one of Lloyd or Sunny is not telling the truth here (I am sure you are telling the truth about your chat with Llyod & that PM, my reach is not that far), but Gavaskar wrote it under his name in a published book; while when Lloyd was asked about it in live telecast - he did say that “... in my career, I don’t think I am proud of every thing...”. I don’t think Lloyd was suggesting that, he was not proud of playing four pacers .... Indians might protest though - “why are you playing four pacers..... “, though they didn’t chicken out in 1982-83 or in Australia 1978, 81, when four pacers were playing in many of the Tests.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I was seven when the West Indies toured England in the summer of 1976.

It was a long, hot summer and even though Roberts, Holding and Daniel were the only really quick bowlers, the English media was horrified at the pace assault encapsulated in the bouncer barrage to the 45 year old Brian Close.

The culture of cricket changed from the time that Lillee and Thomson were unleashed against England 18 months earlier. First England, then the West Indies and finally India were on the receiving end.

I don’t think India were cowards - they just didn’t really want to be part of this brutal new version of the game, and thought that it was cheating.

It’s rather like the introduction of huge bats - which I don’t appreciate!

 

[therealAB]

India's only very well known players were Bedi and Gavaskar. Bedi objected to players being bought and sold, while Gavaskar preferred to play for India. Dev was still young and not particularly well known.

The series was also designed to take control of cricket coverage, and the Australian audience to which it was aimed was properly not as informed re Indian players

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I was seven when the West Indies toured England in the summer of 1976.

It was a long, hot summer and even though Roberts, Holding and Daniel were the only really quick bowlers, the English media was horrified at the pace assault encapsulated in the bouncer barrage to the 45 year old Brian Close.

The culture of cricket changed from the time that Lillee and Thomson were unleashed against England 18 months earlier. First England, then the West Indies and finally India were on the receiving end.

I don’t think India were cowards - they just didn’t really want to be part of this brutal new version of the game, and thought that it was cheating.

It’s rather like the introduction of huge bats - which I don’t appreciate!

You mentioned this few times - I got it: you didn’t think Indians (in fact any nation) is coward, but Kerry Packer thought it from that Kingston Test & that 36* of 60 overs; though he did sent his foreman to hire few of those cowards.

I don’t think Indians were at receiving end; rather WIN (Lloyd) was caught off guard of playing three spinners against Indians and tried to over compensate it in the series decider. I read lot, and read lot about cricket - don’t think I have ever read anything regarding that Kingston Test as “cheating”. Playing four pacers is not cheating for sure - but if batsmen are targeted at body by beemers, ok, waste height full tosses, it’s indeed cheating.

Anyway, I was not even born when the cricket culture changed, therefore can’t say much, though I thought it’s British media that first glorified the joke era of cricket by the name of body line to stay relevant.

 

[Junaids]

You mentioned this few times - I got it: you didn’t think Indians (in fact any nation) is coward, but Kerry Packer thought it from that Kingston Test & that 36* of 60 overs; though he did sent his foreman to hire few of those cowards.

I don’t think Indians were at receiving end; rather WIN (Lloyd) was caught off guard of playing three spinners against Indians and tried to over compensate it in the series decider. I read lot, and read lot about cricket - don’t think I have ever read anything regarding that Kingston Test as “cheating”. Playing four pacers is not cheating for sure - but if batsmen are targeted at body by beemers, ok, waste height full tosses, it’s indeed cheating.

Anyway, I was not even born when the cricket culture changed, therefore can’t say much, though I thought it’s British media that first glorified the joke era of cricket by the name of body line to stay relevant.

I agree with almost all of this.

Packer used to have tantrums at both Greig and Ian Chappell over the players they recruited. His frame of reference was basically Australia’s home series in the 1970’s and he had little interest or tolerance in external events.

If it had been me, I would have recruited Gavaskar, Viswanath, Kirmani and the emerging Kapil Dev.

Maybe it took a high-paying bully to professionalise cricket. I have little time for the likes of Boycott and Botham who snubbed WSC, because I think they were happy in their comfort zone. Weirdly, I respect players LESS if they snubbed Packer.

 

[Robert]

I agree with almost all of this.

Packer used to have tantrums at both Greig and Ian Chappell over the players they recruited. His frame of reference was basically Australia’s home series in the 1970’s and he had little interest or tolerance in external events.

If it had been me, I would have recruited Gavaskar, Viswanath, Kirmani and the emerging Kapil Dev.

Maybe it took a high-paying bully to professionalise cricket. I have little time for the likes of Boycott and Botham who snubbed WSC, because I think they were happy in their comfort zone. Weirdly, I respect players LESS if they snubbed Packer.

What about loyalty to their country?

 

[Robert]

Didn't Gavaskar waste 150 balls and scored 30 runs or something, he wasn't a good odi player.

He was part of the WC winning side of 1983.

The famous go-slow in 1975 might have been because he was having a strop.

 

[MMHS]

I agree with almost all of this.

Packer used to have tantrums at both Greig and Ian Chappell over the players they recruited. His frame of reference was basically Australia’s home series in the 1970’s and he had little interest or tolerance in external events.

If it had been me, I would have recruited Gavaskar, Viswanath, Kirmani and the emerging Kapil Dev.

Maybe it took a high-paying bully to professionalise cricket. I have little time for the likes of Boycott and Botham who snubbed WSC, because I think they were happy in their comfort zone. Weirdly, I respect players LESS if they snubbed Packer.

You see, we are now exactly on the same line.

Not only you, even Kerry Packer would have recruited those Indians - he did send his guy to hire them under his roster; HAD they agreed to join Packer circus - unfortunately, they decided not to. This one I can tell you without any conversation with the now late Kerry Packer. I am sure, you have discussed with Kerry Packer regarding his business tactics of 1970s, whereas my knowledge is very little, that too from tertiary sources, but I read that Packer threatened ACB (CA) for a monopolist media rights which was rejected - so he created a renegade league to teach establishment a lesson. It took two years for both parties to soften up and come to a settlement - and Pecker had to agree with ACB/TCCB’s term but he did get what he was looking for - he had the biggest network, expertise and money; probably would have got that in any case.

He was indeed a bully, which got him stepping on wrong stone - WSC would have been defunct in another season as even Packer wasn’t ready to drain money for an useless cause - even as of today, those games are not recognised as Internationals or even First Class cricket. But, ACB also accepted his ideas in the game - colour dress, white ball, night cricket and focus on result oriented games. Today, we see every effort to bring a direct W/L result in a cricket game in any format, lots of credit should be attributed to Packer for this.

But, I have a contrasting view about respect - I actually respect those MORE, who could resist the temptation; it’s easier to be sold out. That’s one reason Mash Murtuza is respected so highly - he declined a $1.2mn/year, two years contract from ICL, when he didn’t even had a central contract from BCB, and played International cricket on “pay as you play” contract - and that pay was $1,200/ODI.

 

[Junaids]

You see, we are now exactly on the same line.

Not only you, even Kerry Packer would have recruited those Indians - he did send his guy to hire them under his roster; HAD they agreed to join Packer circus - unfortunately, they decided not to. This one I can tell you without any conversation with the now late Kerry Packer. I am sure, you have discussed with Kerry Packer regarding his business tactics of 1970s, whereas my knowledge is very little, that too from tertiary sources, but I read that Packer threatened ACB (CA) for a monopolist media rights which was rejected - so he created a renegade league to teach establishment a lesson. It took two years for both parties to soften up and come to a settlement - and Pecker had to agree with ACB/TCCB’s term but he did get what he was looking for - he had the biggest network, expertise and money; probably would have got that in any case.

He was indeed a bully, which got him stepping on wrong stone - WSC would have been defunct in another season as even Packer wasn’t ready to drain money for an useless cause - even as of today, those games are not recognised as Internationals or even First Class cricket. But, ACB also accepted his ideas in the game - colour dress, white ball, night cricket and focus on result oriented games. Today, we see every effort to bring a direct W/L result in a cricket game in any format, lots of credit should be attributed to Packer for this.

But, I have a contrasting view about respect - I actually respect those MORE, who could resist the temptation; it’s easier to be sold out. That’s one reason Mash Murtuza is respected so highly - he declined a $1.2mn/year, two years contract from ICL, when he didn’t even had a central contract from BCB, and played International cricket on “pay as you play” contract - and that pay was $1,200/ODI.

I definitely can’t name drop any Packer meeting! I met Lloyd repeatedly as a Lancashire junior member and Manley I met at the LSE while I was a student in London. (I was at UCL and he was an LSE alumnus, and my flat mate was studying International Relations there).

But Packer wasn’t trying to deliver a profitable, sustainable cricket competition. He wanted to obtain the Australian TV rights and when he was turned down even though he was the highest bidder he just bought the world’s best cricketers as a form of ransom. And they were previously so badly paid that they were delighted to join him.

And it succeeded as planned: he kept the TV rights for the rest of his life and a further 11 seasons after his death: for 38 years in total.

 

[Asifnow]

The idea was to showcase the best, hardest hitting batsmen and the best, fastest bowlers. Plus these guys had to be stars, India's biggest star at the time was probably 5'3'' Sunny who was hardly going to appeal to an Aussie audience or to Packer himself, who wanted to hold the best players as a form of ransom, so he could win back the TV rights to Australian cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Z

What about loyalty to their country?

Don’t conflate the cricket establishment with “country”.

Here in Australia the Australian Cricket Board had abused the players for years and got away with it because they had a self-appointed monopoly on “international cricket”.

But just as the FA seized elite football from the Football League, as soon as Packer bought all the world’s best players “official” cricket became a tarnished brand and everyone outside England viewed WSC Australia and WSC West Indies as the world’s top two international teams. Nobody here in Australia recognises England’s 5-1 victorious tour in 1877-78 as being a true Ashes series, apart perhaps from Rodney Hogg.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] I’ve just read your one post - the first one to the troll. It was a fantastic summary of what went down.

But I’m reading this email thread from my mobile and I can’t easily read all of what’s been written.

So what I’m about to say may have been posted by someone else.

In any case here goes - I’ve lived through those times as a kid growing up and I’ll tell you why there was no Indian in the Packer circus (Sunny was a candidate, plus two or three other names were floated)

Because Indian public opinion would have immediately, rudely and irrevocably taken down any Indian who’d signed up. Sunny By that I mean the mood in India was harsh, palpable - you sign up for Packer you can kiss your status, your career, in fact your way of life in India goodbye. At one stage some folks even asked the PM to intervene against anyone signing up. It sounds silly but that’s the way it was. There were editorial, opinion pieces etc galore condemning even the thought of an Indian signing up.

As a kid I remember us panicking - I’m not kidding - at the very thought that we could ‘lose’ Gavaskar or Vishy or anyone else. And we were young boys! Now imagine what the public mood must have been.

It was not until the 1984 World Cup that ODIs became popular. So one can only imagine the contempt that people had for a coloured uniform version of the game. The level of opposition got to where there almost public bullying of players at the very rumour of a signing. When Sunny declared he wasn’t joining Packer there was national relief and he was hailed as if he’d won an award for valour or something.

In retrospect I have often thought that Sunny said no as much out of fear as national pride.

And that folks is why there wasn’t an Indian in the Packer games.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

But, there is a telling difference - my emotion never gets better of my good judgement and I never insult my rivals, even for genuine cause, let alone with fabricated stuffs.... Reason - I am honest and I write what I can back, what I can explain and what I can prove from stats; but most importantly - I don't twist facts to fit in my story, and never insult people/nation uncalled for, though my personal loyalty/alliance might be different.....
Then, he targeted the easiest picks, the mercenaries - PAK players. Just like ICL, where almost entire PAK squad left for an unauthorized league risking their International career,
I am not sure, before writing on this, if you had done your home work or took a chance that others won't do their home work either - but trust me, your post didn't brighten your reputation here ......

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] I have edited your post to highlight the contradiction in it.
Almost an entire Pak squad I assume would be something like 10-11 members of a 16 man unit - take a look again at the Pakistani squads pre-ICL, during and after it stopped.
Let me know if you stick by your original point about ‘mercenary’ Pakistani players of the ICL comprising almost the entire Pakistani squad of that time.
If I’m not mistaken the Bangladesh team was impacted more by the players that joined the Dhaka Warriors than by the Pakistani team.
Pakistani players that joined the WSC were no more mercenaries than the Aussies, Windies or English players that joined the enterprise.
Let’s stop with the nonsense just to make a point.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] I have edited your post to highlight the contradiction in it.
Almost an entire Pak squad I assume would be something like 10-11 members of a 16 man unit - take a look again at the Pakistani squads pre-ICL, during and after it stopped.
Let me know if you stick by your original point about ‘mercenary’ Pakistani players of the ICL comprising almost the entire Pakistani squad of that time.
If I’m not mistaken the Bangladesh team was impacted more by the players that joined the Dhaka Warriors than by the Pakistani team.
Pakistani players that joined the WSC were no more mercenaries than the Aussies, Windies or English players that joined the enterprise.
Let’s stop with the nonsense just to make a point.

I was writing from the memory, but now did take a look. In two tournaments, excluding Inzamam ul Haq, these were the PAK players that left National team and could have been banned for life -

Abdul Razzaq
Naved-ul-Hasan
Humayun Farhat
Tahir Mughal
Imran Nazir
Shahid Yousuf
Imran Farhat
Shahid Nazir
Mohammad Sami
Arshad Khan
Riaz Afridi

And, if I can recall correctly, MoYo also signed for ICL but could play as the tournament was defunct. I leave it to you to judge what is almost - you may look at the profile of other players from established cricket nations, their age, their future prospect that signed for ICL to find out the contradiction.

Yes, a group of BD players also joined and played games there, in a time when these players were playing 10-12 ODIs in a year and a Test or two here and there. Still, these are the players that joined ICL

Aftab Ahmed, Alok Kapali, Dhiman Ghosh, Farhad Reza, Golam Mabud, Mahbubul Karim, Manjural Islam, Mohammad Rafique, Mohammad Sharif, Mosharraf Hossain, Nazimuddin, Shahriar Nafees, Tapash Baisya.

PAK players are mercenaries - you may like it or not, but that's the truth. From Hong Kong sixes to T10 in UAE to Uganda league to club cricket in UK, Canada, Dhaka, Mainland Europe or Middle east - from no other country, so many "regular and in contention for nation selection", players play in these leagues/cricket. Now come back with the talent logic - I am waiting, a very similar thought process actually the mother of this thread ..... I just busted that. No, PAK players at WSC were not bigger mercenaries than the Aussies or West Indians, that you can keep with you - BUT, Indians and Kiwis didn't join there as they opted not to, not because they were "less tal*nted", or "Coward" - this one I'll keep with me.

Regarding nonsense - the amount of garbage I have read from PAK posters and their fans in just this one thread is probably enough to know who talks nonsense.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

I was writing from the memory, but now did take a look. In two tournaments, excluding Inzamam ul Haq, these were the PAK players that left National team and could have been banned for life -

Abdul Razzaq
Naved-ul-Hasan
Humayun Farhat
Tahir Mughal
Imran Nazir
Shahid Yousuf
Imran Farhat
Shahid Nazir
Mohammad Sami
Arshad Khan
Riaz Afridi

And, if I can recall correctly, MoYo also signed for ICL but could play as the tournament was defunct. I leave it to you to judge what is almost - you may look at the profile of other players from established cricket nations, their age, their future prospect that signed for ICL to find out the contradiction.

Yes, a group of BD players also joined and played games there, in a time when these players were playing 10-12 ODIs in a year and a Test or two here and there. Still, these are the players that joined ICL

Aftab Ahmed, Alok Kapali, Dhiman Ghosh, Farhad Reza, Golam Mabud, Mahbubul Karim, Manjural Islam, Mohammad Rafique, Mohammad Sharif, Mosharraf Hossain, Nazimuddin, Shahriar Nafees, Tapash Baisya.

PAK players are mercenaries - you may like it or not, but that's the truth. From Hong Kong sixes to T10 in UAE to Uganda league to club cricket in UK, Canada, Dhaka, Mainland Europe or Middle east - from no other country, so many "regular and in contention for nation selection", players play in these leagues/cricket. Now come back with the talent logic - I am waiting, a very similar thought process actually the mother of this thread ..... I just busted that. No, PAK players at WSC were not bigger mercenaries than the Aussies or West Indians, that you can keep with you - BUT, Indians and Kiwis didn't join there as they opted not to, not because they were "less tal*nted", or "Coward" - this one I'll keep with me.

Regarding nonsense - the amount of garbage I have read from PAK posters and their fans in just this one thread is probably enough to know who talks nonsense.

Yet more nonsense. The following are the squads that toured India at the end of 2007. Only Imran Nazir & Mohammed Sami joined the ICL from that squad. That was the last high profile series before Lahore Badshahs were inducted in March 2008.
There was a tour by Zimbabwe at the beginning of 2008 but those two were not selected in the squad. So from the last selected set of players none joined the ICL.

ODIs:
Shoaib Malik (c)
Shahid Afridi
Shoaib Akhtar
Kamran Akmal (wk)
Fawad Alam
Iftikhar Anjum
Mohammad Asif
Salman Butt
Umar Gul
Yasir Hameed
Younis Khan
Imran Nazir
Abdur Rehman
Sohail Tanvir
Misbah-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf

Tests:
Shoaib Malik (c)
Shoaib Akhtar
Kamran Akmal (wk)
Sarfraz Ahmed (wk)
Iftikhar Anjum
Yasir Arafat
Salman Butt
Umar Gul
Yasir Hameed
Rao Iftikhar
Faisal Iqbal
Danish Kaneria
Younis Khan
Abdur Rehman
Mohammad Sami
Sohail Tanvir
Misbah-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf

You can’t leave the National team if you are not selected for it in the first place.
The rest of your post is a poor attempt at deflection since I mentioned nothing about talent nor did I delve into the reasons why the PCB allows its players to compete in those overseas tournaments.

 

[Rajdeep]

The idea was to showcase the best, hardest hitting batsmen and the best, fastest bowlers. Plus these guys had to be stars, India's biggest star at the time was probably 5'3'' Sunny who was hardly going to appeal to an Aussie audience or to Packer himself, who wanted to hold the best players as a form of ransom, so he could win back the TV rights to Australian cricket.

Though Packer's cricket was way before my birth and I have limited knowledge on this topic but can you pls elaborate on the bolded part? What has height got to do with the calibre of a player? Is it not true Bradman himself invited 5'3" Sachin to his house for special dinner and told him that SRT reminds him of his playing days?

 

[Bigboii]

Though Packer's cricket was way before my birth and I have limited knowledge on this topic but can you pls elaborate on the bolded part? What has height got to do with the calibre of a player? Is it not true Bradman himself invited 5'3" Sachin to his house for special dinner and told him that SRT reminds him of his playing days?

Sachin was awesome to watch but Gavaskar would be a bore fest I mean only an idiot would watch him bat to leave balls after balls

 

[MMHS]

Yet more nonsense. The following are the squads that toured India at the end of 2007. Only Imran Nazir & Mohammed Sami joined the ICL from that squad. That was the last high profile series before Lahore Badshahs were inducted in March 2008.
There was a tour by Zimbabwe at the beginning of 2008 but those two were not selected in the squad. So from the last selected set of players none joined the ICL.

ODIs:
Shoaib Malik (c)
Shahid Afridi
Shoaib Akhtar
Kamran Akmal (wk)
Fawad Alam
Iftikhar Anjum
Mohammad Asif
Salman Butt
Umar Gul
Yasir Hameed
Younis Khan
Imran Nazir
Abdur Rehman
Sohail Tanvir
Misbah-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf

Tests:
Shoaib Malik (c)
Shoaib Akhtar
Kamran Akmal (wk)
Sarfraz Ahmed (wk)
Iftikhar Anjum
Yasir Arafat
Salman Butt
Umar Gul
Yasir Hameed
Rao Iftikhar
Faisal Iqbal
Danish Kaneria
Younis Khan
Abdur Rehman
Mohammad Sami
Sohail Tanvir
Misbah-ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf

You can’t leave the National team if you are not selected for it in the first place.
The rest of your post is a poor attempt at deflection since I mentioned nothing about talent nor did I delve into the reasons why the PCB allows its players to compete in those overseas tournaments.

I don't care who was selected in which squad - it's only 14-15 players required and Inzamam picked from his choice. Players like Razzak, Farhat Bros, Nazir, Sami, Rana Naved left for a Renegade league at the peak of their career and they didn't care for their National future. And, Mo Yousuf also agreed to join there, the following year he had broken Viv's annual scoring record. At the same time ICL World XI had these players -

L Klusener, DR Martyn, MW Goodwin, N Boje, PA Nixon, AR Adams, CZ Harris, IJ Harvey, MS Atapattu, JN Gillespie, AJ Hall, M Hayward, J Syed Mohammad.

Some BIG names indeed.

The topic of the thread is why Indian top players were not picked for WSG - it was you first tried to deflect the topic with a completely irrelevant point. Even one active PAK International joining ICL, leaving the national cap should have been enough for you not to go that route - you came here to "expose" me .....

Stick to the point - why Indian players didn't take part in WSC, and no nonsense this time.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

I don't care who was selected in which squad - it's only 14-15 players required and Inzamam picked from his choice. Players like Razzak, Farhat Bros, Nazir, Sami, Rana Naved left for a Renegade league at the peak of their career and they didn't care for their National future. And, Mo Yousuf also agreed to join there, the following year he had broken Viv's annual scoring record. At the same time ICL World XI had these players -

L Klusener, DR Martyn, MW Goodwin, N Boje, PA Nixon, AR Adams, CZ Harris, IJ Harvey, MS Atapattu, JN Gillespie, AJ Hall, M Hayward, J Syed Mohammad.

Some BIG names indeed.

The topic of the thread is why Indian top players were not picked for WSG - it was you first tried to deflect the topic with a completely irrelevant point. Even one active PAK International joining ICL, leaving the national cap should have been enough for you not to go that route - you came here to "expose" me .....

Stick to the point - why Indian players didn't take part in WSC, and no nonsense this time.

Actually I just pointed out your hypocrisy when you responded to another poster by claiming you were honest and didn’t rely on false claims to make your point.
Alas, that is exactly what you did and no amount of backtracking or deflection will alter what is evident in this thread.
You claim to be a knowledgeable cricket fan yet either you are continuing with this charade to hide your previous post or you’re not as clued up as you think you are. Otherwise you would not have made the claim that the names you posted above were ‘at the peak of their career’. Most of them were not selected for the most high profile tour of India which happened less than 6 months before Lahore Badshahs joined the ICL, and none of them were selected for the home series against Zimbabwe at the start of 2008.
To claim that they were at their career peak is delusional thinking.

 

[cricketjoshila]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and his blatant lies continue.

Kerry Packer wanted to sign atleast 3 Indians. Bedi,Sunny and Vishy.

While Bedi refused.

Gavaskar was very interested. But he feared two things, public outrage and losing his well paid job where he got paid without doing anything. His brother in law Vishy was in the same predicament.

I will add this lie of Junaids to his other most blatant one,

1. Sachin Tendulkar was in need of money in late 90s and his agent hawked him to counties but no one offered him a contract as according to counties he was not good enough.

2. Bcci needs Icc money to survive.

 

[tyron_woodley]

lol. Aussies grovel at bcci's feet now. Apparently they like to 'suck up' in order to get an ipl contract. You would never see an Indian cricketer do that. :.

 

[cricketjoshila]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Pakistani players for a long time were not well paid. It was not lack money. It was the administration eating up the money and leaving scrap for the players.

Every year you would watch many pakistani regulars playing county cricket for season after season. While playing county for a couple of seasons is indeed beneficial, doing it over a long time may reduce you longevity.

Look at Saqlain. He literally broke his knees playing matches after matches years after years for Surrey. Consequently his international cricket suffered.

And there are others also.

PCB must invest in its players first and not on its officials.

Most of the BCCI top honchos like President Secretary,GC members are not paid. Thats how it should be.