No information shared by NZC & NZ Government with PCB or Pakistan Government before tour abandoned

[Saj]

No information shared by NZC & NZ Government with PCB or Pakistan Government before tour abandoned

From a PCB source;

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

 

[Titan24]

Well who cares about sharing a threat and who cares about lives of multiple foreign nationals in Islamabad, multiple armies that are being hosted, Pak people etc. Only NZ players are important everyone else is dispensable so why share any intel.

 

[Rana]

Crazy precedent set by the kiwis

New Zealand has a genuine terrorist threat to Muslims in the country. Pakistan Government and PCB should not ever forget this

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Can’t wait for our next tour of NZ, if PCB doesn’t pull out of the tour 30 mins before toss then imma be p’d.

 

[MenInG]

The New Zealand authorities do not have substantive proof of threat in Pakistan, Federal Minister for Interior Sheikh Rasheed said Friday, hours after the Kiwis cancelled their tour of Pakistan.

Rasheed, addressing a press conference in Islamabad, said New Zealand took a unilateral decision to cancel the Pakistan tour despite the country's tight security arrangements for the team.

The federal minister's press conference comes following New Zealand Cricket's decision to cancel its tour of Pakistan citing a "security alert", a statement from the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) had said.

"Earlier today, New Zealand Cricket informed us they had been alerted to some security alert and have unilaterally decided to postpone the series," the PCB had said.

The New Zealand authorities did not have any evidence to support their claim as the Pakistan army, security forces, and 4,000 police personnel were deployed for the Kiwis' security, the interior minister said.

Rasheed said Pakistan had proposed holding the matches without spectators, but the New Zealand authorities did not agree to that. Following this, the Pakistani officials spoke to Prime Minister Imran Khan — who is currently in Tajikistan.

"The prime minister was briefed on the matter. He then called New Zealand Prime Minister [Jacinda Ardern] and assured her that there was no security threat," the interior minister said.

Responding to PM Imran Khan, New Zealand prime minister said there were reports that the team might be attacked once it steps out of the hotel, the interior minister said.

"They took a unilateral decision to cancel their tour," he said, adding that no security institution of Pakistan had received reports of threats to the New Zealand cricket team.

The interior minister said the unilateral decision comes as Pakistan is playing a crucial role in establishing peace in the world. "The country has strong institutions which have fought terrorism."

"The tour has been cancelled on the basis of a conspiracy. This is their [New Zealand's] problem. The National Crises Management Cell and other institutions had tried to convince them, but New Zealand's government has taken a unilateral decision," he said.

Rasheed, in response to a question, said it was not suitable to name the conspirators, as he noted that Pakistan has die-hard cricket fans who wish to see the sport take place on their home ground.

"This conspiracy has been hatched to tarnish the image of Pakistan, as its image was going to build up due to the role it is playing for peace in the region," the interior minister said.

Indian media 'defaming Pakistan'

Talking about Afghanistan, he said Pakistan's borders — Chaman and Torkham — with Kabul were peaceful and security forces were making sure the situation remains the same.

"We have evacuated the US, Turkish, Greek, German, and Japanese citizens from there," the interior minister said, talking about Pakistan's efforts in the evolving Afghan situation.

The interior minister said Pakistani students — men and women — were going back to Afghanistan to continue their studies.

Rasheed noted that if someone wants Afghanistan to turn into a Scandinavian country, then they are at fault, as Kabul progress at its own pace.

Responding to another question, he said a New Zealand-approved security team had reviewed the security situation in Pakistan four months back — three months before the Taliban took over in Afghanistan.

"None of our intelligence agencies had any information about a threat. Pakistan is playing a major role in the region and they do not want us to prosper."

The interior minister said Indian media was "defaming Pakistan", as he vowed that Islamabad — which aspires for peace — would foil all of New Delhi's designs.

'NZ will hear us at ICC,' PCB chairman says

New Zealand will hear Pakistan at the International Cricket Council (ICC), the country's cricket board chief Ramiz Raja had said earlier in the day as he reacted to the cancellation.

"Walking out of the tour by taking a unilateral approach on a security threat is very frustrating. Especially when it’s not shared!!" the PCB chairman lashed out at New Zealand Cricket.

"Which world is NZ living in?? NZ will hear us at ICC," the statement.

GEO

 

[Babeikh]

This is really quite staggering on so many levels and indicates a complete lack of sincerity on the part of the New Zealanders.

If there is a threat, that means there are some very dangerous people with the ability to cause death out there with credible means to do so. New Zealand holding this information back could cost lives - brown lives but yes, lives. I know brown lives don't matter as much in the scheme of things but this is an utterly irresponsible and dangerous thing to not share this information with the concerned authorities in Pakistan so that the threat can be investigated and action can be taken - regardless of whether the New Zealand team leaves or stays.

It also indicates a lack of trust in the Pakistani authorities who have successfully hosted several international cricket events in recent times. This alone sets a very dangerous precedent.

I feel however that not sharing the threat indicates that they probably know it is not credible but they nevertheless decided to leave so as not to take any chances - which in itself is fair enough - but I am more and more concerned about the way in which this has been done by the New Zealanders than anything else.

 

[Usman Chadda]

This is what is wrong with this pullout. NZ have every right to refuse to tour, or suspend the tour based on authentic security concerns.

But to not even initiate conversation with the host nation, until the PCB had to literally knock on the players’ rooms to find out why they werent boarding the team bus, is unprofessional and childish to say the least.

 

[Yk313]

From a PCB source;

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

I think the above coupled with a disclosure of the time at which they informed PCB / govt. about a perceived security threat are the main questions.

There have been reports of PAK having proposed a series without any fans which was not accepted by NZC.

Important to find out the nature of the threat, what risks (collateral or orherwise) could have befallen PAK.

Most other threads and responses are emotional fallouts. Important to gather all information first and have a consolidated timeline before proceeding with any measures.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

We will take these jokers to court

 

[rhony]

They will disclose the threat once they leave Pak. They should technically

 

[Yk313]

They will disclose the threat once they leave Pak. They should technically

That should be the logical recourse. They kept quiet about their return plans due to the threat but once they have safely left they should disclose the risks.

 

[hitthestump]

We will take these jokers to court

Indeed. PCB should pursue this as much as possible as the behaviour from NZC has been inexcusable.

Even Mamoon would struggle to pull an anti-Pakistan narrative from this event. 100% of the blame lies with one party.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Indeed. PCB should pursue this as much as possible as the behaviour from NZC has been inexcusable.

Even Mamoon would struggle to pull an anti-Pakistan narrative from this event. 100% of the blame lies with one party.

In further news British High Commission have rejected the threat on their end. I want to know from NZC what sort of Tony Stark gear do you have that you saw a threat from your country? It's all rubbish and ways to put Pakistan down more and more. Pakistan intelligence should've at least been consulted which they weren't.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/new-zealands-ardern-says-safety-paramount-team-pull-out-pakistan-tour-2021-09-17/

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Friday that she totally supported New Zealand Cricket's decision to pull out of its Pakistan tour as the safety of the players was paramount.

"When I spoke with the Prime Minister of Pakistan I conveyed our thanks for taking care of the New Zealand Cricket team," Ardern said in a statement sent to Reuters.

"I know how disappointing it will be for everyone that the game hasn’t gone ahead, but we totally support the decision that’s been made. Player safety has to be paramount.”

 

[angrypathan]

They will disclose the threat once they leave Pak. They should technically

Yeah I'm fine with them waiting till they get out to share the information but it must be shared

 

[Rana]

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/new-zealands-ardern-says-safety-paramount-team-pull-out-pakistan-tour-2021-09-17/

The great Jacinda Arden

Another feather in her cap when she collects her Nobel peace prize

 

[NishanKonar]

No intelligence agency shares info with another agency unless they have a working relationship. This protocol is strictly followed to avoid doxxing informers / agents on the ground. So no way NZ can disclose anything to Pakistan without consent of its intelligence partner

ps : Remember a famous incident from 2003 where RAW agents in Pakistan identified assassination plot against Pervez Mushaaraf. But the Indian govt did not know how to convey the info to Pakistan without disclosing secrets. So Indian PM Vajapayee picked up the phone for a courtsey call to Musharaf & casually metnioned " apna sehat ka kyahal rakhna ". Musharraf picked up the hint & alerted the ISI who understood the message

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No intelligence agency shares info with another agency unless they have a working relationship. This protocol is strictly followed to avoid doxxing informers / agents on the ground. So no way NZ can disclose anything to Pakistan without consent of its intelligence partner

ps : Remember a famous incident from 2003 where RAW agents in Pakistan identified assassination plot against Pervez Mushaaraf. But the Indian govt did not know how to convey the info to Pakistan without disclosing secrets. So Indian PM Vajapayee picked up the phone for a courtsey call to Musharaf & casually metnioned " apna sehat ka kyahal rakhna ". Musharraf picked up the hint & alerted the ISI who understood the message

Witholding information about a potential terror attack should supersede any etiquette regarding working relationships. Hundreds of lives were hypothetically on the line.

Your Musharraf, Vajpayee story is complete fantasy. Intelligence agencies have numerous backdoors and methods for passing important info. They wouldn't rely on PM level phone calls lol

 

[NishanKonar]

Witholding information about a potential terror attack should supersede any etiquette regarding working relationships. Hundreds of lives were hypothetically on the line.

Your Musharraf, Vajpayee story is complete fantasy. Intelligence agencies have numerous backdoors and methods for passing important info. They wouldn't rely on PM level phone calls lol

Intelligence agencies are always more concerned about trust & well being of their agents / assets on the ground. One mis step / leak can bring entire intelligence network in a country. ALl this sounds very harsh & wrong - but that's how intelligence works

 

[Rana]

Another thing to note here is, the New Zealand intelligence agency whatever they are called have quite seriously insulted the ISI.

They deserve a ‘qarara jawaab’ just like Manoj Bajpai said in Rajneeti

 

[Major]

Another thing to note here is, the New Zealand intelligence agency whatever they are called have quite seriously insulted the ISI.

They deserve a ‘qarara jawaab’ just like Manoj Bajpai said in Rajneeti

i dont know what you think the ISI is. They are not some almighty force. If they were, we wouldnt have had terrorist attacks in the past or the 2009 bus attacks.

Anyways, Pakistan should pursue this diplomatically as what intelligence were there.

 

[globalcitizen]

Was the security threat to both teams?
Why were pakistan cricketers still sitting in their hotels and not at ground?
They should have been there training.
Something does not add up!

 

[ahsan17]

Was the security threat to both teams?
Why were pakistan cricketers still sitting in their hotels and not at ground?
They should have been there training.
Something does not add up!

Yes, it doesn't add up if you bury your head in the sand and don't do research. The whole thing happened around 3-4am. If the tour was called off around that time, Pakistani players should turn up just to satisfy Bharti armchair experts.

 

[wajid]

Intelligence agencies are always more concerned about trust & well being of their agents / assets on the ground. One mis step / leak can bring entire intelligence network in a country. ALl this sounds very harsh & wrong - but that's how intelligence works

No it doesn’t. Intelligence sharing is normal routine. No one is saying NZ to identify their asset on the ground. They just stubbornly refuse to even identify type, size, nature etc of the threat.

 

[Yk313]

Another thing to note here is, the New Zealand intelligence agency whatever they are called have quite seriously insulted the ISI.

They deserve a ‘qarara jawaab’ just like Manoj Bajpai said in Rajneeti

Not a movie. This is the only thread with any semblance of logic. Preserve this and stay pragmatic.

Once details of whatever threat there was are communicated (likely after NZC returning home safely) all protocols should be taken stock of then.

 

[Yk313]

No it doesn’t. Intelligence sharing is normal routine. No one is saying NZ to identify their asset on the ground. They just stubbornly refuse to even identify type, size, nature etc of the threat.

At this point I would ignore the Hollywood-esque notion by the above poster about opacity re. intelligence sharing (read “security risk / mortal peril).

The actual nature of the security risk should be shared with PAK once NZC are safely in NZ in order for PAK to safeguard its citizens and avert any future threats to human lives of all backgrounds.

 

[globalcitizen]

Yes, it doesn't add up if you bury your head in the sand and don't do research. The whole thing happened around 3-4am. If the tour was called off around that time, Pakistani players should turn up just to satisfy Bharti armchair experts.

You don't make sense. Even at scheduled start of match the news everyone knew was delay due to covid! So most thought that was reason both teams dint come to ground.
If security was reason them pakistan should have taken stand and be at ground

 

[Thephenom]

There’s no threat whatsoever, what bull crap!

 

[Yk313]

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/new-zealands-ardern-says-safety-paramount-team-pull-out-pakistan-tour-2021-09-17/

Don’t get this. Govt. says they “support” the decision that has been made. NZC say the decision came from the govt. Am I missing something?

 

[Yk313]

From a PCB source;

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

To you and the Mods - would it be possible to have a thread which contains a timeline of events? Including:
- the build-up to the series (last 1 month and last 7 days)?
- the time at which the decision was conveyed to PCB (read somewhere it was already conveyed at 3-4 am PST)
- the security cover provided during NZCT’s training sessions (normally the city is not cordoned off during training but only on match day so any miscreant has a better chance of striking when the teams are training)

I would be happy to start such a thread but sources / links tend to get deleted so best if one of the mods go ahead to set this up.

 

[Titan24]

The actual nature of the security risk should be shared with PAK once NZC are safely in NZ in order for PAK to safeguard its citizens and avert any future threats to human lives of all backgrounds.

So literally any team can randomly pack bags out of any tour and go home without saying a word or giving any reason sabotaging everything put in place? Thats some next level precedent being set.

 

[Gilly]

Don’t get this. Govt. says they “support” the decision that has been made. NZC say the decision came from the govt. Am I missing something?

Three separate entities. Government, Intelligence (military) and NZCB.

 

[redmaverik84]

They are waiting the NZ before revealing the details of the threat. They won't keep it under wraps forever logically. If they do, they risk setting a precedent and being penalized by the ICC

 

[Sher Khan]

NZ have an obligation to fully share the threats with our government

If their really is a high security threat in our country. Our government should know about it, to protect the lives of our people and prevent a possible attack.

NZ is obligated to share this advice with our government, in order to prevent innocent lives being affected.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

If their really is a high security threat in our country. Our government should know about it, to protect the lives of our people and prevent a possible attack.

NZ is obligated to share this advice with our government, in order to prevent innocent lives being affected.

I don't think they have any real and genuine one.
IMO, it's all political based. There was no threat and no security issue to any team. They have been practicing without a problem.
And all of a sudden they pulled this cheap stunt on us? It was classless and distasteful.

Of course, down the road they will get shelter under the excuse of receiving bad intel.

What Pakistan needs to find out is who is actually behind this move? And we will wait for the right time to reply.

 

[Junaids]

Of course they don’t.

New Zealand is a member of the Five Eyes Alliance which gives it access to pretty much any available global intelligence.

They are most certainly not at liberty to unilaterally disclose that intelligence to other countries.

 

[ahsan17]

Of course they don’t.

New Zealand is a member of the Five Eyes Alliance which gives it access to pretty much any available global intelligence.

They are most certainly not at liberty to unilaterally disclose that intelligence to other countries.

The thing is that argument can fly if we're talking about bilateral relations or doing raids OBL. But here we're talking about international sports and if ICC were to act neutrally they can act against NZC for not giving this information.

 

[PakLFC]

If NZ players felt threatened then they have the right not to play. We need to know exactly what the threat was.

 

[Snatch]

Of course they don’t.

New Zealand is a member of the Five Eyes Alliance which gives it access to pretty much any available global intelligence.

They are most certainly not at liberty to unilaterally disclose that intelligence to other countries.

Correct, clearly there could be certain security intel that cannot be shared with a Pakistani govt for good reason.

Once again we have emotional idiots jumping in before they 1) know the facts of what intel was received & 2) know whether it is intel they can share with the Pakistan govt.

There's a good reason the likes of a 5 eyes alliance exists.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Correct, clearly there could be certain security intel that cannot be shared with a Pakistani govt for good reason.

Once again we have emotional idiots jumping in before they 1) know the facts of what intel was received & 2) know whether it is intel they can share with the Pakistan govt.

There's a good reason the likes of a 5 eyes alliance exists.

Can you please reread your own sentence in bold before calling others as “emotional idiots”?
Or it’s a, takes one to know one, situation here?
Of course they don’t know, and that’s exactly why they are asking because they would like to know.
Did anyone claim that they know?

For the second part, perhaps NZ are obligated not to share the SOURCE of their intel but I don’t think they should have a problem in sharing the threat info, as to by who n how was this supposed to happen?

But looks like they actually don’t have anything else besides crying like a baby goat that “the team will be attacked soon as they step out of the hotel”
By who n how? No one seem to know.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The thing is that argument can fly if we're talking about bilateral relations or doing raids OBL. But here we're talking about international sports and if ICC were to act neutrally they can act against NZC for not giving this information.

The information is not NZC's. Its a five eyes alliance info shared at govt level. ICC has no role.

 

[ahsan17]

The information is not NZC's. Its a five eyes alliance info shared at govt level. ICC has no role.

You don't understand my point. I am not in the mood to debate bad faith individuals like yourself though, so I will not prolong it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You don't understand my point. I am not in the mood to debate bad faith individuals like yourself though, so I will not prolong it.

There is no bad faith here. NZC is nothing here. The info and decision was NZ govts.

Whatever it was, it was big enough for Ardern to pull out the team and not even assurances by the Pakistani PM were enough.

The pak govt has to engage with NZ govt on intelligence sharing.

 

[Snatch]

Can you please reread your own sentence in bold before calling others as “emotional idiots”?
Or it’s a, takes one to know one, situation here?
Of course they don’t know, and that’s exactly why they are asking because they would like to know.
Did anyone claim that they know?

For the second part, perhaps NZ are obligated not to share the SOURCE of their intel but I don’t think they should have a problem in sharing the threat info, as to by who n how was this supposed to happen?

But looks like they actually don’t have anything else besides crying like a baby goat that “the team will be attacked soon as they step out of the hotel”
By who n how? No one seem to know.

I don't need to re-read it, you do. I agreed none of us yet know... I just said clearly there 'could' be certain security intel they may not be able to share in response to people hysterically asserting that NZ Govt owe them a full report now!

I'm not taking back that comment, because that is exactly what is happening here, people are letting their emotions in being disappointed in the cancelled tour cloud their logical judgement of the various scenarios that could be taking place.

This is just sport at the end of the day. Get a grip.

 

[redmaverik84]

So the risk assessment and Security Detailing were provided by 'ESI Risk', a company based in Aus and interestingly has only a few major clients prominent amongst them being ICC, ECB, NZC, ACB, Premier League, FICA and wait for it, PSL!

This could mean that ESI Risk will deter ECB and ACB from touring in the near future. But what I don't understand is how can the same org give clearance for PSL to go on with participation of foreign players registered under FICA and at the same time prevent Intl teams from touring? Maybe PCB should hire them as security consultants similar to PSL

 

[Babeikh]

Nobody is suggesting New Zealand share all of their sources and codes and methods of surveillance or whatever else they or their partners did to identify this threat. However, LITERALLY THE FIRST THING New Zealand should have done was inform the relevant authorities in Pakistan about the threat, what the threat is, who it is from etc so that the relevant authorities can investigate it and take action.

It is utterly criminal that they did not and have not done so and smacks of the classic white lives are worth more than brown lives attitude that so many in the west have.

And I don't buy this 'they are waiting for New Zealand to leave the country' nonsensical nonsense. What difference does that make? It is criminal from New Zealand. Literally criminal to withhold this information. The decision to leave the tour might well have been justified if there really was a genuine credible threat but the way they handled it smacks of arrogance, disrespect and criminal negligence.

 

[ahsan17]

So the risk assessment and Security Detailing were provided by 'ESI Risk', a company based in Aus and interestingly has only a few major clients prominent amongst them being ICC, ECB, NZC, ACB, Premier League, FICA and wait for it, PSL!

This could mean that ESI Risk will deter ECB and ACB from touring in the near future. But what I don't understand is how can the same org give clearance for PSL to go on with participation of foreign players registered under FICA and at the same time prevent Intl teams from touring? Maybe PCB should hire them as security consultants similar to PSL

It doesn't seem like this particular assessment came from that company, but from intelligence services, but even that is not confirmed yet.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I don't need to re-read it, you do. I agreed none of us yet know... I just said clearly there 'could' be certain security intel they may not be able to share in response to people hysterically asserting that NZ Govt owe them a full report now!

I'm not taking back that comment, because that is exactly what is happening here, people are letting their emotions in being disappointed in the cancelled tour cloud their logical judgement of the various scenarios that could be taking place.

This is just sport at the end of the day. Get a grip.

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

 

[Babeikh]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

Exactly. Nobody is asking them to come on TV and announce to the whole world all the details of the threat but the fact they didn't inform the relevant security agencies in Pakistan is disgraceful and despicable behaviour.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

The truth is very plain and simple, but it's bitter to swallow. This is nothing but attempt to humiliate Pakistan, regardless of whether there was a threat or not. The SENA countries don't view Pakistan with any respect. The only way they will view the brown people as more than insects if the browns have enough money to offer.

 

[Snatch]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

Not if it turns out the threats were specifically targeting the NZ team, which is one of the few things the NZ release did allude to.

 

[Space Cat]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

The threat was specific to the NZ touring party apparently. This was comunicated to Imran Khan by Adern via phone call.

Hopefully more details can be released but the dangerous nature of intelligence work may mean releasing more infomation could severly compromise sources.

 

[Snatch]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

Surely we ought to assume NZ decided Pakistan civilians were NOT in imminent danger otherwise they would share the intel immediately, and that would be at Govt level.

 

[Yk313]

The threat was specific to the NZ touring party apparently. This was comunicated to Imran Khan by Adern via phone call.

Hopefully more details can be released but the dangerous nature of intelligence work may mean releasing more infomation could severly compromise sources.

Quite unrealistic to be transparent. Terrorist attacks are seldom isolated to the primary target and barring some minority % always end up including collateral damage.

With the heavy security cover that had been provided to NZC it would be extremely unlikely for any potential attack to not engulf some / many members of the security entourage.

And if the threat was felt likely to emanate from the crowd in attendance then it could very likely affect PAK children, women and elderly in the crowd. Surely Ardern, with her copious amounts of empathy, could try and avert a potential bloodbath by at least sharing the nature of the threat and not leaving innocent civilians out as sitting ducks?

Unless NATO exited AFG and landed in ISB to provide security to NZC all of a sudden, on the way back to the airport for their departure, NZC would likely have been provided security by the same personnel who had been accompanying them on the tour so far. Any miscreant who had wanted to strike during the game (which would be sub-optimal, by the way, considering there is often less security coverage during practice sessions which NZC had been undertaking at the ground for the last ~4 days / nights) could have acted hastily and beyond the remit of the “plan” upon hearing of the tour being abandoned and potentially targeted the leaving convoy. Again, the security personnel would have been sitting ducks and may not have been able to optimally protect the NZC squad per their job without having any inkling of what to expect.

By not sharing the nature of the threat (I don’t get why people keep insinuating that PAK expected them to share their sources) NZC single-handedly risked jeopardising the lives of:
- PAK security personnel
- PAK civilians
- NZC squad

To be clear, no annoyance at the tour being abandoned. Lot of annoyance at putting lives in mortal peril due to lack of information sharing.

 

[OldWarHorse]

NZ players’ lives are worth more than the Pakistani people, who would also have been inadvertently affected by this ‘security threat’?

I’m not saying release a social media statement, but why not share the information with local authorities aswell? Why are our law enforcement agencies bewildered that NZ decided to do a runner unilaterally based on info they have no clue about till now?

I would guess they are targets cause they were foreigners and it was specifically for NZ team only? Lets wait for them to get out of there and release their findings.

 

[MenInG]

The New Zealand government remains steadfast in its support of New Zealand Cricket's last-minute decision to abandon the Black Caps' tour of Pakistan, despite stinging criticism from Pakistan authorities and the wider cricket community.

NZC made the call to cancel the tour just minutes before the first ODI in Rawalpindi on Friday night, following intelligence of a security threat targeting the Black Caps.

All 15 squad members, who trained under heavy police guard three times since their arrival a week ago, were ordered to remain in their hotel rooms - and will now be rushed out of the country.

According to overseas media, the intelligence came from Five Eyes, an intelligence alliance of New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the United States and United Kingdom. The threat was deemed credible before the match, and led to phone calls between NZC and their counterparts at the Pakistan Cricket Board, and Pakistan and New Zealand Prime Ministers Imran Khan and Jacinda Ardern.

New Zealand had not toured Pakistan since 2003, due to long-held security concerns after a 2002 suicide bomb attack outside their Karachi hotel, while in 2009, the Sri Lanka team's bus was attacked in Lahore.

In the aftermath of the cancellation, Pakistan media reported the existence of a Rawalpindi police advisory that cited a threat to the tour, issued earlier this week.

New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson would not confirm whether that was the threat that caused the tour to be abandoned, but noted the threat was credible and action needed to be taken.

"As is normal in situations like this it is not possible or responsible to go into detail around the nature of these threats, but it was credible and had to be taken seriously.

"We support the decision made by NZ Cricket. They did so on the basis of security assessments, including by their own security advisors on the ground. There was a credible security threat and NZ Cricket has responded appropriately.

"We are grateful to the government of Pakistan for keeping the team safe while they have been there, and appreciate how disappointing this decision is for the cricket community in Pakistan. However, player safety has to be paramount. We continue to work closely with NZ Cricket to support them and the players."

The decision left the Pakistan government and cricket community in shock, with one official claiming that Ardern had told Khan that she feared the Black Caps would be attacked once they arrived at the stadium for the first ODI.

Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed also echoed earlier comments from the PCB that there was no security threat against the Kiwis.

"He [Khan] told her [Ardern] that the law and order situation is the best in our country and we give a guarantee that there is no security problem here, there is no security threat," Ahmed said.

"But the Prime Minister of New Zealand said that the issue is not the threat but we have such information that when the team goes out it can come under some attack."

According to Ahmed, Black Caps security advised local authorities of the security threat on Friday. When asked about the nature of the threat, Ahmed claimed the New Zealanders "did not have any".

Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed gestures during a press conference regarding the abandoning of New Zealand cricket team's tour. Photo / AP
Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed gestures during a press conference regarding the abandoning of New Zealand cricket team's tour. Photo / AP

Pakistan had deployed commandos from Pakistan Army's Special Services Group, soldiers, and 4000 policemen for the matches in Rawalpindi, Ahmed said.

He also claimed the cancellation was a "conspiracy", but declined to elaborate.

"He [Khan] called [Ardern] and assured her of complete security to the Kiwis.

"She said the [New Zealand] Government received intelligence that the team could be attacked when it steps out to go to the stadium.

"It is their decision. We had deployed heavy security for the team. Pakistan is a peace promoter in the world. And this tour was cancelled through a conspiracy. It is their problem and what they decide."

The New Zealand women's team, the White Ferns, are scheduled to visit Pakistan this season, and the men's side are also supposed to visit again in 2022-23, for a series of tests and ODIs.

The Black Caps' next matches are set to be at the Twenty20 World Cup, which begins in the United Arab Emirates at the end of October. Their first opponent will be Pakistan.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cr...crickets-decision/TSWGBDKU2AHSQPPWDMA3FMVQE4/

 

[Usman Chadda]

Surely we ought to assume NZ decided Pakistan civilians were NOT in imminent danger otherwise they would share the intel immediately, and that would be at Govt level.

Incorrect.

Why is it so difficult to accept NZ govt and the cricket board have dealt in bad faith here? You ‘ought to assume’ they thought Pakistan civilians/players were not in danger, but it’s so difficult for the likes of you to accept that things could have been handled much more maturely rather than a toddler throwing toys out of the pram?

 

[Usman Chadda]

The threat was specific to the NZ touring party apparently. This was comunicated to Imran Khan by Adern via phone call.

Hopefully more details can be released but the dangerous nature of intelligence work may mean releasing more infomation could severly compromise sources.

Regardless they should have communicated as such to the relevant authorities in Pakistan.

NZCB did not have the courtesy of informing the PCB that their players will not be taking the field. The PCB had to find out why the NZ players were refusing to take to the team bus.

The tour is on Pakistan soil. Pakistan authorities and the cricket board have a right to know what’s going on. You can’t just wake up and decide to leave as such without proper communication.

Its a joke.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

What was the excuse for mistreating the Pakistani players on the NZ tour?

Just cut ties, I remember BCB were playing similar games with us.

 

[Thulsa]

Regardless they should have communicated as such to the relevant authorities in Pakistan.

NZCB did not have the courtesy of informing the PCB that their players will not be taking the field. The PCB had to find out why the NZ players were refusing to take to the team bus.

The tour is on Pakistan soil. Pakistan authorities and the cricket board have a right to know what’s going on. You can’t just wake up and decide to leave as such without proper communication.

Its a joke.

Wrong. What if the intel provided suggested that inside elements of the Pakistani security detail etc were compromised? In which case sharing said intel would place the team at an even greater risk?

It’s also possible that the intel has not been disclosed until the NZC team is back on home soil where this threat no longer exists?

Not sharing any detailed information with the Pakistani authorities can be interpreted in different ways and none of you or us are the wiser. The ECB’s statement that they are waiting 24 - 48 hours could coincide with this timeframe - get the NZC out first and foremost and provide a fuller statement thereafter.

This is extremely unusual and NZC team to my knowledge haven’t done this before and are generally one of the more collaborative boards. Not everything is a ‘conspiracy against Pakistan’.

 

[Yk313]

Wrong. What if the intel provided suggested that inside elements of the Pakistani security detail etc were compromised? In which case sharing said intel would place the team at an even greater risk?

Don’t care about the conspiratorial angle so will just comment on the above.

OK, so let’s go with the notion that the security risk / threat was such that inside elements of the PAK security had been feared to have been compromised. In this case would NATO allies be guarding the NZC team until their departure? Has a replacement security team been sent by NZC to guard the team until their departure? Will the existing (read “compromised”) security patrol / motorcade / convoy be escorting NZC to the airport? If the existing (“compromised”) security team was to escort NZC team to the airport and have them under surveillance until they flew out, surely there would be no better opportunity to strike (knowing full well that NZC are leaving)?

I may well be missing something out so please do point it out. Lots of moving pieces and for what it is worth no qualms about the tour of being cancelled. If it had been the other way round, I would have vociferously advocated the same thing for PCT in NZ regarding abandoning the tour (e.g. ChristChurch).

Human lives matter more than recreational events regardless of whether it is about cancelling MLB in US due to shootings, concerts in EUR due to blast, cricket matches in PAK due to terror threats, events in IND due to IED threats (anywhere on the planet earth regardless of background, really).

 

[Technics 1210]

Do not believe the Anglo-Saxon racist alliance. Pakistan shared intel with 5 eyes as part of an alliance and war on terror within the region; it's absolute horsepukky that 5 eyes shouldn't share intel in this case.

Funny how the Kiwis were afraid to sit on the bus heading to the ground but those fears subsided when heading to Islamabad airport, on a bus.

 

[Thulsa]

No idea - there are too many plates spinning here and I wouldn’t want to call it. Which is why the prudent thing to do is wait - i get how utterly bewildering this must be to the authorities in Pakistan. But i don’t recall a blindside like this ever taking place in Cricket.

The NZC team doesn’t have an axe to grind and, to my knowledge, there isn’t/hasn’t been any bad blood between the teams/countries. For this course of action to have been taken something major must have transpired to spoon the team into this course of action.

 

[MRSN]

They will disclose the threat once they leave Pak. They should technically

So world's most rated intelligence agency and one of the top forces in the world who deafted terrorists and wiped them out of their hidden caves on the isolated regions in the Pakistan doesn't know the threat but few people who don't even belong to this country know it?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Wrong. What if the intel provided suggested that inside elements of the Pakistani security detail etc were compromised? In which case sharing said intel would place the team at an even greater risk?

It’s also possible that the intel has not been disclosed until the NZC team is back on home soil where this threat no longer exists?

Not sharing any detailed information with the Pakistani authorities can be interpreted in different ways and none of you or us are the wiser. The ECB’s statement that they are waiting 24 - 48 hours could coincide with this timeframe - get the NZC out first and foremost and provide a fuller statement thereafter.

This is extremely unusual and NZC team to my knowledge haven’t done this before and are generally one of the more collaborative boards. Not everything is a ‘conspiracy against Pakistan’.

Too many assumptions being made to justify NZ’s actions. Facts are they have dealt in bad faith with the PCB and Pakistan security authorities. If and when NZ release relevant information regarding the security threat, will we be able to discuss their reasons.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

The New Zealand authorities do not have substantive proof of threat in Pakistan, Federal Minister for Interior Sheikh Rasheed said Friday, hours after the Kiwis cancelled their tour of Pakistan.

Rasheed, addressing a press conference in Islamabad, said New Zealand took a unilateral decision to cancel the Pakistan tour despite the country's tight security arrangements for the team.

The federal minister's press conference comes following New Zealand Cricket's decision to cancel its tour of Pakistan citing a "security alert", a statement from the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) had said.

"Earlier today, New Zealand Cricket informed us they had been alerted to some security alert and have unilaterally decided to postpone the series," the PCB had said.

The New Zealand authorities did not have any evidence to support their claim as the Pakistan army, security forces, and 4,000 police personnel were deployed for the Kiwis' security, the interior minister said.

Rasheed said Pakistan had proposed holding the matches without spectators, but the New Zealand authorities did not agree to that. Following this, the Pakistani officials spoke to Prime Minister Imran Khan — who is currently in Tajikistan.

"The prime minister was briefed on the matter. He then called New Zealand Prime Minister [Jacinda Ardern] and assured her that there was no security threat," the interior minister said.

Responding to PM Imran Khan, New Zealand prime minister said there were reports that the team might be attacked once it steps out of the hotel, the interior minister said.

"They took a unilateral decision to cancel their tour," he said, adding that no security institution of Pakistan had received reports of threats to the New Zealand cricket team.

The interior minister said the unilateral decision comes as Pakistan is playing a crucial role in establishing peace in the world. "The country has strong institutions which have fought terrorism."

"The tour has been cancelled on the basis of a conspiracy. This is their [New Zealand's] problem. The National Crises Management Cell and other institutions had tried to convince them, but New Zealand's government has taken a unilateral decision," he said.

Rasheed, in response to a question, said it was not suitable to name the conspirators, as he noted that Pakistan has die-hard cricket fans who wish to see the sport take place on their home ground.

"This conspiracy has been hatched to tarnish the image of Pakistan, as its image was going to build up due to the role it is playing for peace in the region," the interior minister said.

Indian media 'defaming Pakistan'

Talking about Afghanistan, he said Pakistan's borders — Chaman and Torkham — with Kabul were peaceful and security forces were making sure the situation remains the same.

"We have evacuated the US, Turkish, Greek, German, and Japanese citizens from there," the interior minister said, talking about Pakistan's efforts in the evolving Afghan situation.

The interior minister said Pakistani students — men and women — were going back to Afghanistan to continue their studies.

Rasheed noted that if someone wants Afghanistan to turn into a Scandinavian country, then they are at fault, as Kabul progress at its own pace.

Responding to another question, he said a New Zealand-approved security team had reviewed the security situation in Pakistan four months back — three months before the Taliban took over in Afghanistan.

"None of our intelligence agencies had any information about a threat. Pakistan is playing a major role in the region and they do not want us to prosper."

The interior minister said Indian media was "defaming Pakistan", as he vowed that Islamabad — which aspires for peace — would foil all of New Delhi's designs.

'NZ will hear us at ICC,' PCB chairman says

New Zealand will hear Pakistan at the International Cricket Council (ICC), the country's cricket board chief Ramiz Raja had said earlier in the day as he reacted to the cancellation.

"Walking out of the tour by taking a unilateral approach on a security threat is very frustrating. Especially when it’s not shared!!" the PCB chairman lashed out at New Zealand Cricket.

"Which world is NZ living in?? NZ will hear us at ICC," the statement.

GEO

Did'nt we all know This was going to be thrown about....how predictable.

 

[Thulsa]

Too many assumptions being made to justify NZ’s actions. Facts are they have dealt in bad faith with the PCB and Pakistan security authorities. If and when NZ release relevant information regarding the security threat, will we be able to discuss their reasons.

On the contrary, i am not making any judgment - versus people like yourself that are describing this as ‘bad faith’ and passing it off as a fact. It is not a fact, it is your opinion.

We dont know the reasons and the prudent approach is to be measured until the full facts are made public.

 

[Snatch]

Too many assumptions being made to justify NZ’s actions. Facts are they have dealt in bad faith with the PCB and Pakistan security authorities. If and when NZ release relevant information regarding the security threat, will we be able to discuss their reasons.

Not facts, your opinion.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Not facts, your opinion.

Lack of communication between NZCB and PCB is fact, not my opinion. Media in Pakistan ‘leaks’ every small detail that took place, going into the final cancellation. I suggest you read up on the version of events before deciding how unprofessional NZCB actually were.

 

[Usman Chadda]

On the contrary, i am not making any judgment - versus people like yourself that are describing this as ‘bad faith’ and passing it off as a fact. It is not a fact, it is your opinion.

We dont know the reasons and the prudent approach is to be measured until the full facts are made public.

See the above post for response.

Read up on what actually happened, rather than only commenting on the premise. There is a reason a separate thread was opened on this website over the appalling lack of communication between NZCB and PCB. The OP is a respected journalist in Pakistan cricket.

 

[Snatch]

New Zealand cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without approval of other parties.

Why can't people understand this?

 

[leonidas_alexandar]

Cricket: Global intelligence caused Black Caps cancellation as New Zealand government backs New Zealand Cricket's decision

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cr...crickets-decision/TSWGBDKU2AHSQPPWDMA3FMVQE4/


The New Zealand government remains steadfast in its support of New Zealand Cricket's last-minute decision to abandon the Black Caps' tour of Pakistan, despite stinging criticism from Pakistan authorities and the wider cricket community.

NZC made the call to cancel the tour just minutes before the first ODI in Rawalpindi on Friday night, following intelligence of a security threat targeting the Black Caps.

All 15 squad members, who trained under heavy police guard three times since their arrival a week ago, were ordered to remain in their hotel rooms - and will now be rushed out of the country.

According to overseas media, the intelligence came from Five Eyes, an intelligence alliance of New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the United States and United Kingdom. The threat was deemed credible before the match, and led to phone calls between NZC and their counterparts at the Pakistan Cricket Board, and Pakistan and New Zealand Prime Ministers Imran Khan and Jacinda Ardern.

Within 12 hours of those conversations, the tour was cancelled.

New Zealand had not toured Pakistan since 2003, due to long-held security concerns after a 2002 suicide bomb attack outside their Karachi hotel, while in 2009, the Sri Lanka team's bus was attacked in Lahore.

In the aftermath of the cancellation, Pakistan media reported the existence of a Rawalpindi police advisory that cited a threat to the tour, issued earlier this week.

New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson would not confirm whether that was the threat that caused the tour to be abandoned, but noted the threat was credible and action needed to be taken.

"As is normal in situations like this it is not possible or responsible to go into detail around the nature of these threats, but it was credible and had to be taken seriously.

"We support the decision made by NZ Cricket. They did so on the basis of security assessments, including by their own security advisors on the ground. There was a credible security threat and NZ Cricket has responded appropriately.

"We are grateful to the government of Pakistan for keeping the team safe while they have been there, and appreciate how disappointing this decision is for the cricket community in Pakistan. However, player safety has to be paramount. We continue to work closely with NZ Cricket to support them and the players."

The decision left the Pakistan government and cricket community in shock, with one official claiming that Ardern had told Khan that she feared the Black Caps would be attacked once they arrived at the stadium for the first ODI.

Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed also echoed earlier comments from the PCB that there was no security threat against the Kiwis.

"He [Khan] told her [Ardern] that the law and order situation is the best in our country and we give a guarantee that there is no security problem here, there is no security threat," Ahmed said.

"But the Prime Minister of New Zealand said that the issue is not the threat but we have such information that when the team goes out it can come under some attack."

According to Ahmed, Black Caps security advised local authorities of the security threat on Friday. When asked about the nature of the threat, Ahmed claimed the New Zealanders "did not have any".

Pakistan had deployed commandos from Pakistan Army's Special Services Group, soldiers, and 4000 policemen for the matches in Rawalpindi, Ahmed said.

He also claimed the cancellation was a "conspiracy", but declined to elaborate.

"He [Khan] called [Ardern] and assured her of complete security to the Kiwis.

"She said the [New Zealand] Government received intelligence that the team could be attacked when it steps out to go to the stadium.

"It is their decision. We had deployed heavy security for the team. Pakistan is a peace promoter in the world. And this tour was cancelled through a conspiracy. It is their problem and what they decide."

The New Zealand women's team, the White Ferns, are scheduled to visit Pakistan this season, and the men's side are also supposed to visit again in 2022-23, for a series of tests and ODIs.

The Black Caps' next matches are set to be at the Twenty20 World Cup, which begins in the United Arab Emirates at the end of October. Their first opponent will be Pakistan.

 

[UzmanBeast]

New Zealand cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without approval of other parties.

Why can't people understand this?

Do you not understand how political this decision is?

How can you not share this information with the country where this threat is supposedly going to take place?

This means that if Pakistan visits New Zealand (hypothetically, I doubt we will again) and ISI claims that it is unsafe, we can pack our bags and leave mid-game and not say a word.

If I were the ISI, and let's say I got wind with considerable evidence that there was going to be a Mosque Shooting in New Zealand, would you prefer that I withhold that information from New Zealand authorities and watch as dozens of people get massacred?

Please use some sense.

 

[MRSN]

Looks like terrorists are directly in contact with this global intelligence company. This is turning out to be a such a joke.

 

[UzmanBeast]

There are too many people making ludicrous arguments to support New Zealand. The excuse that Five Eyes needs confirmation is just what I said: an excuse.

People are treating NZ as they have escaped a war in Pakistan. I'd say the situation was worse in New Zealand when we toured (multiple COVID-19 cases in our squad, horrific treatment and hospitality by NZ authorities, and fresh after the Christchurch shooting).

To the people supporting NZ's decision, please wake up.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Looks like terrorists are directly in contact with this global intelligence company. This is turning out to be a such a joke.

Yes, this information is so reliable and severe that they cannot share it with the PCB.

Just a question, were both teams staying at the same hotel? Just something to think about.

 

[Abu_Hamza]

Looks like terrorists are directly in contact with this global intelligence company. This is turning out to be a such a joke.

May be their source is an undercover in a terrorist group.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan thinks that threat was manageable.

NZ thinks the threat was credible and not worth taking the risk.

Tour got canceled.

There is no way to bridge this gap.

There could be many reasons to not share the details before NZ team is out of the country. If it is too hard to visualize some scenario then think about US not sharing details with Pakistan before killing Bin Laden inside Pakistan.

Everyone should wait till we know more details. We may never know full details because all details are never shared in public domain, but we may know a bit more in few days.

 

[MRSN]

May be their source is an undercover in a terrorist group.

The credibility of the West/US intelligence agencies can be understood by looking at their last drone attack where they killed one of their own NGO person going for aid of children. About 9 kids were killed. The Americans first stated it successfully killed terrorists but later we get to know who was the victim. This is just one of their many drone attacks that killed innocent people than terrorists.

Also America and UK have accepted incompetence of their agencies in understanding the capability of Talibans and Afghan forces.

The UK or US agency should be the last one to be taken seriously when it comes to intelligence in this region.

 

[MRSN]

Pakistan thinks that threat was manageable.

NZ thinks the threat was credible and not worth taking the risk.

Tour got canceled.

There is no way to bridge this gap.

There could be many reasons to not share the details before NZ team is out of the country. If it is too hard to visualize some scenario then think about US not sharing details with Pakistan before killing Bin Laden inside Pakistan.

Everyone should wait till we know more details. We may never know full details because all details are never shared in public domain, but we may know a bit more in few days.

If this source was so good and whoever behind was capable of that then how come we have seen peaceful home tours by SL, SA, WI and PSL? Pakistan is not the same as it was 12 years ago. Some people really need to embrace this. If things were so bad then why would foreigners VLoggers easily visiting Pakistani cities without any protocol or any security?