Numbers expose the sad decline and fall of Mohammad Abbas

[Junaids]

We all know that Mohammad Abbas had a superb entry into Test cricket. He seemed like a shorter version of Mohammad Asif, able to dangle his medium pacers to deceive the best batsmen in the business.

But the last two years things have gone very, very wrong. He failed in South Africa, and in the next away series was dropped from the First Test in Australia and went wicketless in the Second Test.

But the numbers expose just how catastrophic his decline and fall have been.

This is how Abbas has performed outside Asia over the last 2 full years, having taken 19 wickets in 3 Tests in the British Isles the previous year.

As we all know, an average below 30 is good, and below 35 is acceptable. similarly a strike rate below 60 is good, and below 70 is acceptable.

In South Africa, 2018-19
3 Tests
5 wickets in 74 overs
Average 46.20
Strike Rate 88.8

In Australia, 2019-20
1 Test
0 wickets in 29 overs for 100 runs
No Average
No Strike Rate

In England, 2020
3 Tests
5 wickets in 78 overs for 179 runs
Average 35.80
Strike Rate 93.6

In New Zealand, 2020-21
1 Test
1 wicket in 31 overs for 49 runs
Average 49.00
Strike Rate 186.0

OVERALL AWAY TEST RECORD THE LAST TWO YEARS
8 matches
11 wickets for 559 runs in 212 overs
AVERAGE 50.81
STRIKE RATE 115.64

These numbers are truly shocking. Mohammad Abbas is still a very economical bowler, but how can any team - even Afghanistan or Zimbabwe - carry a pace bowler who takes a wicket every 116 deliveries, at an average of 50.81 runs per wicket?

 

[Junaids]

When you look at Abbas's average average you realise that you are in Mohammad Sami territory.

Then you compare strike rates and realise that Sami took a wicket every 14 overs while Abbas takes a wicket every 20 overs.

That's how bad things have got for Mohammad Abbas.

 

[ElRaja]

doesn't have the pace or height to push batsmen on to the back foot, would make a very good third bowler and that's how he should be used.

he bowled well here early doors and was very unlucky. nasim ruined his effort by bowling rubbish to follow it up, and eventually when he got the chance shan shelled the catch. a decent follow up bowler would have made use of the pressure and created at least two or three more chances.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

You are right. There is no hiding from numbers.

For all his nagging accuracy, he has not been able to covert it into wickets.

He should be judged on performance, like anyone else.

 

[Rana]

He is one of the reasons why we have sucked with the ball in away tours recently.

He should play but not as an opening bowler, nothing to gain with his 65mph away swingers. Opposition batsmen are too smart to be fooled by him at that pace. New ball is consistently being wasted.

Also, he should not be the designated night watchman for Pakistan, the guy is the reason why we could not set a tone at all in the morning and went at a run rate of 1.3 until the 50th over

 

[Rana]

You have this guy wasting the new ball for 8-10 overs in his opening spell and going for 10/15 runs for no wickets,

Then you have 17 year old Naseem coming in with the ball 20 overs old and no shine on it hardly, what do you expect the kid to do with 7 Tests under his belt?

 

[choudhary6964]

He was never good enough to begin with.He is awful.He should be dumped for good.

 

[Junaids]

doesn't have the pace or height to push batsmen on to the back foot, would make a very good third bowler and that's how he should be used..

Can you afford a third seamer who is a Number 11 batsman? How many Number 11 s can you squeeze into one team?

If you look back at the warmup matches in both England and New Zealand, and the Test performances, you see that Faheem Ashraf can fill the same role of "economical bowler who has a dodgy strike rate". But he can score runs too.

Pakistan can't carry three short right-arm quicks - it's too easy for the opposition batsmen to get set.

I think it's time to wave goodbye to Abbas, and to recall Hasan Ali - as an alternative to Naseem Shah - and to call up Amad Butt and either Ehsan Adil or Sameen Gul.

 

[ElRaja]

Can you afford a third seamer who is a Number 11 batsman? How many Number 11 s can you squeeze into one team?

If you look back at the warmup matches in both England and New Zealand, and the Test performances, you see that Faheem Ashraf can fill the same role of "economical bowler who has a dodgy strike rate". But he can score runs too.

Pakistan can't carry three short right-arm quicks - it's too easy for the opposition batsmen to get set.

I think it's time to wave goodbye to Abbas, and to recall Hasan Ali - as an alternative to Naseem Shah - and to call up Amad Butt and either Ehsan Adil or Sameen Gul.

id rather swap nasim shah with amad butt, who is no sobers but can pbly tonk an aggressive 30 odd every now and again.

bowlers work in partnerships and having abbas at one end would help whoevers on the other end cos the captains more comfortable knowing one end wont leak.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

On current form Rauf should be in the team instead of abbas
It would stop the attritional cricket too
Southee had a poor game too
It's like watching mcgrath imitations for 5 days in a row

 

[Third_Umpire]

Just look at him. Does he look like an elite athlete able to compete with professionals? He looks like a village cricketer. Zero fitness. Cost us with a dropped chance too. Yes he can swing the ball but at that pace it doesn’t matter.

 

[Junaids]

id rather swap nasim shah with amad butt, who is no sobers but can pbly tonk an aggressive 30 odd every now and again.

bowlers work in partnerships and having abbas at one end would help whoevers on the other end cos the captains more comfortable knowing one end wont leak.

Fair point.

In Asia, I'm now thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Zafar Gohar or Amad Butt
9. Sajid Khan
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Shah

Outside Asia I'm thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Hasan Ali
10. Amad Butt or Naseem Shah
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

 

[Bewal Express]

Abbas offers nothing. We need a bowler like him but not him. A bowler that doesn't bowl at 75pmh in a test, a bowler that has stopped getting people out. As I pointed out in my tour review, once the shine goes he is harmless and he can't bore out the likes of Williamson.

 

[Bewal Express]

Fair point.

In Asia, I'm now thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Zafar Gohar or Amad Butt
9. Sajid Khan
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Shah

Outside Asia I'm thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Hasan Ali
10. Amad Butt or Naseem Shah
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

The 3 spinners you have named in Asia are awful. Nawaz is barely a league bowler, Shadab can't land the ball in the same place more than once and Sajid Khan bowls floaty rollers.

 

[Rana]

Tonight he might be useful with his tight lines and try to drag the NZ innings deep into the second session before the declaration. Him and Shaheen need to stand up and bowl as close as they can to the middle and off stump line in order to limit the damage whilst also taking time out of the game.

Big chance for him to do something useful!

 

[Junaids]

The 3 spinners you have named in Asia are awful. Nawaz is barely a league bowler, Shadab can't land the ball in the same place more than once and Sajid Khan bowls floaty rollers.

You're welcome to drop Shaheen or Naseem for Nauman Ali as a like-for-like replacement for a Number 11.

 

[gazza619]

I think it is high team Pakistan discards all the so called specialist bowlers. I say play alrounders so that the batting is till number 11.

 

[Mamoon]

Abbas should have been picked when he was actually 30, probably in 2014-15 when Pakistan was wasting time with Rahat Ali.

He is about 35-36 now and too slow to be successful at this level.

 

[Bewal Express]

You're welcome to drop Shaheen or Naseem for Nauman Ali as a like-for-like replacement for a Number 11.

You can't pick bowlers that can't bowl. Have you seen Sajid Ali bowl, he is awful and when I say awful, I mean awful. Nawaz wouldn't even get selected to a county 2nd 11 as a bowler and Shadab has gone backwards to a point where he can't the bowl anywhere near a good length. If the others are poor batsman, then so be it. If your point was to look for better lower order bats, then your point is valid but not by picking guys that cant bowl for toffee.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

In the span of one year, how has he managed to go from bowling 130kph to 120kph.

 

[Saj]

0 for 25 from 18 overs looks good on paper, but it's a waste of the new ball.

He should really be doing a lot more with the new ball instead of batsmen being able to leave ball after ball.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think it is high team Pakistan discards all the so called specialist bowlers. I say play alrounders so that the batting is till number 11.

So your reasoning is to let the opposition get 500 on the board and then our deep batting will save us.

 

[ElRaja]

Fair point.

In Asia, I'm now thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Zafar Gohar or Amad Butt
9. Sajid Khan
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Shah

Outside Asia I'm thinking:

6. Mohammad Nawaz
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Hasan Ali
10. Amad Butt or Naseem Shah
11. Shaheen Shah Afridi

there is something wrong with nasim, hes gone from 150 to 135, hes not skillful enough to be penetrative against good teams at that pace.

shadab shaheen and faheem are a shoe in for me, home or away, the team looks more balanced with them in it, and most importantly they are not naturally defensive.

then the other two seamers away, or spinner + seamer at home is up for debate. abbas, hassan ali, amad butt, aamer yamin, sajid khan, etc.

 

[Rana]

I think it is high team Pakistan discards all the so called specialist bowlers. I say play alrounders so that the batting is till number 11.

Faheem, Amad, Shaheen

I like the sound of this three but they probably need one more strike fast bowler.

Shaheen and Naseem need to improve their batting tbf. Add Gohar or Shadab into this attack and you will have guys who might add an additional 100-150 runs batting from 7-11

 

[Junaids]

You can't pick bowlers that can't bowl. Have you seen Sajid Ali bowl, he is awful and when I say awful, I mean awful. Nawaz wouldn't even get selected to a county 2nd 11 as a bowler and Shadab has gone backwards to a point where he can't the bowl anywhere near a good length. If the others are poor batsman, then so be it. If your point was to look for better lower order bats, then your point is valid but not by picking guys that cant bowl for toffee.

I'm not picking either Nawaz or Shadab as specialist bowlers. I'm picking them like Hafeez six years ago, as batsmen who can bowl some support spin.

I think Sajid is fine. I don't mind picking Nauman Ali instead if he's really that good, but only if a fellow Number 11 makes way to fit him in.

 

[Rana]

0 for 25 from 18 overs looks good on paper, but it's a waste of the new ball.

He should really be doing a lot more with the new ball instead of batsmen being able to leave ball after ball.

Hit the nail on the head.

He can do this as the first change bowler and lock one end up like a spinner for long spells. Pakistan should take a gamble and open the bowling with Naseem.

 

[Bewal Express]

0 for 25 from 18 overs looks good on paper, but it's a waste of the new ball.

He should really be doing a lot more with the new ball instead of batsmen being able to leave ball after ball.

I did point this out in the summer against England and on the review I did before the tour. You can't out bore the likes of Williamson and Wattling. If we need a dibble doubly 75 mph, Aamer Yamim is a much better option

 

[Junaids]

Hit the nail on the head.

He can do this as the first change bowler and lock one end up like a spinner for long spells. Pakistan should take a gamble and open the bowling with Naseem.

I don't think Naseem has the skills to bowl with the new ball yet - just like Waqar Younis didn't have those skills for years when he was demolishing teams with the old ball.

I don't see a second new ball bowler for Pakistan currently. They really needed to have Sameen Gul playing QEA this season.

 

[Bewal Express]

I'm not picking either Nawaz or Shadab as specialist bowlers. I'm picking them like Hafeez six years ago, as batsmen who can bowl some support spin.

I think Sajid is fine. I don't mind picking Nauman Ali instead if he's really that good, but only if a fellow Number 11 makes way to fit him in.

Neither Shadab nor Nawaz are even close to being any sort of test players. If they are not bowlers, they are def not test batsman, what are they.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

In the span of one year, how has he managed to go from bowling 130kph to 120kph.

Back in 2017 and '18, we still had ball tracking on the ICC website for test matches played and it was clear that Abbas was extremely effective when his average speed was around 81 mph or thereabouts and you could see that the effort balls would go as high as 138/139. Often in another innings in the same series, it would drop to around 79 mph and he would be much easier to negotiate. Classic examples being his lords performance vs Leeds performances in 2018 and the 1st innings against australia in dubai and the 2nd innings. Post the SLAP tear, he hasnt bowled at that speed in any innings anywhere. The skill and accuracy are intact .

 

[Rana]

I don't think Naseem has the skills to bowl with the new ball yet - just like Waqar Younis didn't have those skills for years when he was demolishing teams with the old ball.

I don't see a second new ball bowler for Pakistan currently. They really needed to have Sameen Gul playing QEA this season.

I mean for this Test. What do we have to lose by giving Naseem the new ball on a day 4 seaming track?

 

[Bewal Express]

I don't think Naseem has the skills to bowl with the new ball yet - just like Waqar Younis didn't have those skills for years when he was demolishing teams with the old ball.

I don't see a second new ball bowler for Pakistan currently. They really needed to have Sameen Gul playing QEA this season.

He is playing and he looked very average. The bowler with most skills is Waqas Maqssod, and I bet he isnt any older than Abbas and he he moves the ball both ways.

 

[Energy]

But he comes across as being un-droppable. That is sad.

 

[Mamoon]

The only argument in Abbas’ favor is that he creates pressure with his maiden overs and forces the batsmen to be more adventurous against the other bowlers.

However, you need quality on the other end to exploit that pressure which we don’t have.

Naseem and Yasir do a very good job of releasing whatever pressure Abbas and Shaheen build.

 

[gazza619]

Faheem, Amad, Shaheen

I like the sound of this three but they probably need one more strike fast bowler.

Shaheen and Naseem need to improve their batting tbf. Add Gohar or Shadab into this attack and you will have guys who might add an additional 100-150 runs batting from 7-11

Yeah that was my point. I dont mind number 11s as long as their bowling average is worth it.

 

[Junaids]

Neither Shadab nor Nawaz are even close to being any sort of test players. If they are not bowlers, they are def not test batsman, what are they.

Shadab averages 33 as a Test batsman, and in the Tests he has played he outperformed Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq and Shan Masood.

I think that's fine for a Number 7. He is not the same type of player as Yasir Shah. Outside Asia he's much more like an upgraded Ravi Jadeja.

 

[Babbar]

I think that's fine for a Number 7. He is not the same type of player as Yasir Shah. Outside Asia he's much more like an upgraded Ravi Jadeja.

Why not Shadab played 6 tests compared to 49 by Jadeja and has poorer batting, bowling, not to say fielding, creds than Jadeja. But who cares as long as it’s on own forum.

 

[Bewal Express]

Shadab averages 33 as a Test batsman, and in the Tests he has played he outperformed Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq and Shan Masood.

I think that's fine for a Number 7. He is not the same type of player as Yasir Shah. Outside Asia he's much more like an upgraded Ravi Jadeja.

Thats because he played as a bowler who bats. I don't have to tell you that the reason Buttler and Bairstow were fighting to WK/bats and not just batsman because there is far less pressure if you aren't expected to score as a batsman.
If Shadab could bowl even remotely like a test spinner then his batting will be an asset. But alas he can't, and unless he plays purely as batsman, then he shouldn't be anywhere near the team

 

[Markhor]

Dhani is his replacement but he's another 1-2 seasons away from being ready.

 

[Junaids]

Why not Shadab played 6 tests compared to 49 by Jadeja and has poorer batting, bowling, not to say fielding, creds than Jadeja. But who cares as long as it’s on own forum.

I said OUTSIDE ASIA. Shadab has superior batting and bowling stats compared to Jadeja outside Asia.

The comparison is reasonable. Jadeja is not capable of being a frontline bowler outside Asia but his batting is pretty sound for a Number 7. Just like Shadab....OUTSIDE ASIA!

 

[Saj]

With him you need attacking bowlers as the others in the attack. Shaheen yes comes into that category, but not Naseem and Faheem and that's why Abbas has been exposed.

 

[Hyperion66]

For a bowler, in his late 30's, churning out 120kph thunderbolts he actually punched way above his weight. It is actually impressive how economical he has been in this test.

 

[Kroll]

Just doesn't seem to have the fitness anymore, not that he was an elite athlete before or anything and must be way older than prescribed.

I knew it was coming but Misbah is no coach or selector either.

 

[Savak]

He was averaging 17-18 at one point in 2018, that average has gone up to 22 now. He is our Zulfiqar Babar right now bowling harmless penetrative less maidens

 

[MHN1293]

The upcomming sa series is a good oppertunity to drop abbas and try out a new pacer. Maybe even give naseem a shot at the new ball. I remember in a first class practice game against austrailia A he got good shape from the new ball. If he dosent do well with even a new ball at home then he should rightfully be dropped.

 

[MMHS]

I don't think Naseem has the skills to bowl with the new ball yet - just like Waqar Younis didn't have those skills for years when he was demolishing teams with the old ball.

I don't see a second new ball bowler for Pakistan currently. They really needed to have Sameen Gul playing QEA this season.

This one I’ll have to intervene - and I’ll do that every time you insult my boyhood hero to glorify the incarnation of Fred Trueman. These two are in different cloud - absolutely no comparison. Here are few trolls join your band wagon as they are too thick to realise that you actually troll PAK cricket more than anyone - but most of your hyperbole actually makes a more laughter than the joy ride.

I actually stopped you in the match thread, but as usual you have used the same example in another thread - a fresh start. As I said, don’t take chances because most of the posters here haven’t seen young Waquar Younis - I have.

Young WY was better than Shaheen with new ball, let alone Incarnation... for a refresher, try to check his debut Test against India at Karachi or his series against NZ & WIN in the winter of 1990 - within a year of his debut.

This comparison with WY vs Naseem is as hilarious as “Rishad Pant being 80% batsman and 50% WK than the player Ruhail Nazir....” -

 

[shamaan]

if abbas is to play the other 3 bowlers must be wicket taking bowlers

 

[Titan24]

Playing in the team as only experienced pacer/ spearhead these numbers are indeed poor. The pace he is bowling at currently in not going to be effective in most of the surfaces around.

 

[Savak]

Reminds me of what England did with Martin Bicknell in 2003. He was the best swing, seam and new ball bowler in county cricket and England picked him on a green wicket against SA in 2003 and he was moving the ball around, incredibly accurate, even picked up wickets against SA and troubled all the players but sadly he was around 70-75 mph at best.

That was the last test match and series he played for England as they knew he was not a long term option. Pakistan need to make a similar call on Abbas

 

[cricketjoshila]

0 for 25 from 18 overs looks good on paper, but it's a waste of the new ball.

He should really be doing a lot more with the new ball instead of batsmen being able to leave ball after ball.

He does move the ball, but at that pace international batsmen will make the late adjustment. In his initial years, he was successful because of the novelty factor. Now players know what to expect.

Secondly he doesn't have the ability to push the batsman back.

 

[Bewal Express]

This is one of the consequences of years of fake ages at the U19 level. Each of these guys is at least 3+ years older, so when they are 31, they are 34 etc. Its the reason why when these guys should be hitting their peak, they can barely bowl a loop down a hill.

 

[hitthestump]

These numbers are truly shocking. Mohammad Abbas is still a very economical bowler, but how can any team - even Afghanistan or Zimbabwe - carry a pace bowler who takes a wicket every 116 deliveries, at an average of 50.81 runs per wicket?

What has Waqar been doing with him for this period? Clearly nothing at all of any benefit.

 

[hur rizvi]

I dont understand why Rizwan doesnt come up to the stumps for him.

That should definitely enhance his potency a little bit

 

[sharmaji]

I don't know if Abbas read the posts on this thread, but he showed a lot of "aggression" today, both when he got the wicket and when he took a catch. It was surprising to watch him do that.

 

[Saj]

I don't think the coaches can do much when his body has gone.

 

[hur rizvi]

He does move the ball, but at that pace international batsmen will make the late adjustment. In his initial years, he was successful because of the novelty factor. Now players know what to expect.

Secondly he doesn't have the ability to push the batsman back.

Not everything is novelty factor. He bowls at 120-126 kph these days when he was taking more wickets he was around 128-133 kph. You cannot trouble international class batters with 125 kph thunderbolts

 

[Shazzam]

I don't know if Abbas read the posts on this thread, but he showed a lot of "aggression" today, both when he got the wicket and when he took a catch. It was surprising to watch him do that.

Sounds to me he was bowling 90 mph when you watched him play.

 

[sharmaji]

No, I was talking about the way he celebrated the wickets

But he bowled well today, not that he bowls badly anyway. I think he isn't that great once the ball gets old.

Sounds to me he was bowling 90 mph when you watched him play.

 

[cricketfan11]

Sadly Abbas is yet another case of a bowler with potential who will have a short lived career.

Pakistan should really just groom a pool of bowlers in domestic cricket who hit 90 mph. They should somehow just separate Test and limited overs bowlers to ensure Test bowlers just work on Test level fitness and skills. There is an opportunity to groom Naseem Shah to become a good bowler but somehow it hasn't worked so far.

Waqar's days as coach must surely be numbered.

 

[Cric1234]

When you look at Abbas's average average you realise that you are in Mohammad Sami territory.

Then you compare strike rates and realise that Sami took a wicket every 14 overs while Abbas takes a wicket every 20 overs.

That's how bad things have got for Mohammad Abbas.

Cherry picking stats again it was obvious when wickets have more bounce Abbas will be less effective his overall average is 22 he was decent in Pakistan last time he played.

Unfortunately all our bowlers are underperforming overseas the fast lethal pace bowlers at the other end are not match winners aswell.

Abbas should be used as a foil overseas to bowl economically on bouncier wickets but the other fast bowlers are not doing well.

 

[Cric1234]

Shaheen Afridi last 3 tours of England Australia and NZ have yielded averages of 51 36 45 but no thread on his lack of potency shouldn’t his pace and bounce be more effective in these places?

 

[MenInG]

Is Mohammad Abbas' exclusion from Tests justified?

 

[TheSultan]

Yes, his exclusion is justified - he is a trundler. A useful trundler on green pitches, but on any other pitch, he is no better than a spinner who doesn’t turn the ball.

 

[IMMY69]

Yes, his exclusion is justified - he is a trundler. A useful trundler on green pitches, but on any other pitch, he is no better than a spinner who doesn’t turn the ball.

and yet he has brilliant figures in UAE..

 

[mmkextreme_1]

and yet he has brilliant figures in UAE..

That was before he lost pace (he was never quick to begin with)

There is a difference in bowling at 127-133 (occasionally getting up to 135) kph vs 118-125 kph

 

[pratiktc]

At his age, he can no longer play intl cricket and threaten batters

 

[brokenrecord]

Is Mohammad Abbas' exclusion from Tests justified?

Should definitely be a part of the current squad. We don’t have any real experience in the fast bowling department especially with Shaheen out. Two potential debutants. And England will come at you aggressively. So even if Abbas doesn’t take wickets, he can at least contain them. On our usually flat pitches, the other faster bowlers, without much experience to boot, can get taken apart.

 

[Mamoon]

I wouldn’t pick him against England of all sides. They are going to attack him and if they get hold of him he will get absolutely murdered. At his pace there is nothing he can fall back.

He could still work against defensive minded teams because he will keep hitting the right lengths and challenge their technique, but England will put him off his length.

 

[brokenrecord]

I wouldn’t pick him against England of all sides. They are going to attack him and if they get hold of him he will get absolutely murdered. At his pace there is nothing he can fall back.

He could still work against defensive minded teams because he will keep hitting the right lengths and challenge their technique, but England will put him off his length.

True. Could also be a good fold to Naseem, Faheem and Haris. The pitches in the Australia series neutralized the pace effect for the most part. Abbas has those you miss I hit sort of lines.

 

[MenInG]

Not picking Abbas for his experience, a huge miss?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not picking Abbas for his experience, a huge miss?

125k bowler on this pitch?

Bro, are you spending too much time with Indians?