Options for the fifth bowler in Test Cricket for Pakistan

[Savak]

It is clear that this 4 bowler strategy is not working for Pakistan where we keep letting the opposition off the hook in the first innings after getting 5-6 wickets early due to the pacers running out of gas in the second innings and looking equally ineffective in the second innings.

Now that Misbah and Younis Khan have retired, i believe the following line up looks the best possible combination

1) Azhar Ali
2) Ahmed Shehzad/Mohd Hafeez
3) Babar Azam
4) Asad Shafiq
5) Umar Akmal
6) Sarfaraz Ahmed
7) Aamir Yamin/Finger spinning all rounder
8) Yasir Shah
9) Mohd Amir
10) Hasan Ali
11) Mohd Abbass

By playing the above combination, we have 3 confirmed full time pacers who can be used in short sharp bursts and have the best chance of bowling at full tilt without running out of gas in later spells.

We have a pace bowling all rounder who can ease the workload while maybe pick up a wicket or two while being no mug with the bat. On a pure spinning wicket we can look to give a chance to a finger spinning all rounder like Imad Wasim.

We have Yasir Shah who can be used as an attacking option bowling at least 20-25 overs a day.

We have Hafeez who can be relied upon to bowl 10-15 economical overs a day while maybe even picking up a wicket or 2. I know he is not a popular batting choice but cmon he is an upgrade over Shan Masood

We have Azhar Ali who can roll his arm over for a few overs and maybe even get lucky with a wicket.

We have 7-8 reliable batting options as well. I believe this is the best possible combination going forward.

 

[Rayyman]

For me:

Off-spin:
Asad Shafiq
Mohammad Hafeez
Babar Azam

Left arm-spin:
Fawad Alam
Imad Wasim

Pace:
Aamer Yamin
Hammad Azam

 

[coy0607]

As much as I hate to admit it, Hafeez may be the best option here

He should never play T20 or ODI cricket again, but I think he has value as a Test player

 

[Da_Future_Knick]

Azhar Ali
Mohammed Hafeez
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail
Asad Shafiq
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim
Yasir Shah
Mohammed Amir
Hassan Ali
Mohammed Abbas

 

[Da_Future_Knick]

Every single player in that XI can bowl with the expection of Sarfraz.

Pakistan needs some all rounders to ease up some of the work by the main bowlers

 

[Pak_lover6]

Rather than having M Hafeez in the side I would like to see Imad Wasim or any other young fast bowling all rounder in the test side.

 

[Junaids]

As much as I hate to admit it, Hafeez may be the best option here

He should never play T20 or ODI cricket again, but I think he has value as a Test player

I am implacably opposed to this.

The only reason I don't want Salman Butt back is because at 32 he is too old.

But you propose to recall a 36 year old who is the Second Worst Batsman of All Time Outside Asia?

2016-17 QEA First Class records

Shan Masood 9 matches, 14 innings, 2 not outs, 436 runs @ 36.33, 1x50, 1x100

Mohammad Hafeez 8 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 342 runs @ 36.33, 0x100, 3x50

Salman Butt 10 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 741 runs @ 49.40, 4x100, 2x50

By all means compare Fakhar Zaman or Imam-ul-Haq to Shan Masood.

But Hafeez shouldn't be picked at his age anyway, and certainly not while Salman Butt is more than twice as good.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

If there is any Hafeez will be back. Otherwise we will go with 4 bowlers and Azhar & Asad will chip in.

If fawad makes test team which he should than he would bowl rather than Asad but he isn't someone who could be considered as a fifth bowler.


Agha Salman, Hussain Tallat & Amad Butt are only allrounders who have potential to become Test allrounders but none of them is ready yet. Agha Salman should have been ready by now if the selectors inducted him in two spinners camp with Saqlain in past. But they lacked Eye & Wisdom.

Amad & Hussain's bowling mechanics are out at present but there is no one to help them be it be professional coaches or equipment but these two are only fast medium allrounders we have. Amad who could bowl at 87-88mph max an year ago is now bowling 135-136 kph max currently because of technical issues with his delivery stride action, head position and follow through. Hussain also delivers the bowl tad too early hence loses speed aswl as precise accuracy.

Yamin & Fahim aren't quick enough. Yamin's height is an issue.


Wrt Test batting potential amongst these 5 i will rate them as:

1. Agha Salman
2. Aamer Yamin
3. Hussain Tallat
4. Faheem Ashraf
5. Amad Butt


Wrt Bowling:

1. Amad Butt
2. Hussain Tallat
3. Agha Salman
4. Faheem Ashraf
5. Aamer Yamin.


Agha Salman can do better than Hafeez in Test Cricket. He has right attitude aswell. He just needs couple of weeks training with Saqlain Mushtaq and within 6 months He will be ready. Ball release, revs, pivot are things he needs to improve. Right coaching needed.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Imad Wasim.

 

[Xoib]

Short term-Hafeez
Long term-Shadab

 

[silent ischemia]

If there is any Hafeez will be back. Otherwise we will go with 4 bowlers and Azhar & Asad will chip in.

If fawad makes test team which he should than he would bowl rather than Asad but he isn't someone who could be considered as a fifth bowler.


Agha Salman, Hussain Tallat & Amad Butt are only allrounders who have potential to become Test allrounders but none of them is ready yet. Agha Salman should have been ready by now if the selectors inducted him in two spinners camp with Saqlain in past. But they lacked Eye & Wisdom.

Amad & Hussain's bowling mechanics are out at present but there is no one to help them be it be professional coaches or equipment but these two are only fast medium allrounders we have. Amad who could bowl at 87-88mph max an year ago is now bowling 135-136 kph max currently because of technical issues with his delivery stride action, head position and follow through. Hussain also delivers the bowl tad too early hence loses speed aswl as precise accuracy.

Yamin & Fahim aren't quick enough. Yamin's height is an issue.


Wrt Test batting potential amongst these 5 i will rate them as:

1. Agha Salman
2. Aamer Yamin
3. Hussain Tallat
4. Faheem Ashraf
5. Amad Butt


Wrt Bowling:

1. Amad Butt
2. Hussain Tallat
3. Agha Salman
4. Faheem Ashraf
5. Aamer Yamin.


Agha Salman can do better than Hafeez in Test Cricket. He has right attitude aswell. He just needs couple of weeks training with Saqlain Mushtaq and within 6 months He will be ready. Ball release, revs, pivot are things he needs to improve. Right coaching needed.

Are you sure Yamin is ranked 5 wrt bowling. He is far better than Talat, Butt and Ashraf and his recent performance in the Pakistan Cup is a proof of that

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Are you sure Yamin is ranked 5 wrt bowling. He is far better than Talat, Butt and Ashraf and his recent performance in the Pakistan Cup is a proof of that

Yes. It's format based. Please compare Yamin's best FC season with Amad's best FC season wrt bowling (when they both played for a Department)

 

[Amjid Javed]

Fawad Alam and Haris sohail, Both are good enough to play as batsmen alone and there bowling would be a nice lil bonus.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I am implacably opposed to this.

The only reason I don't want Salman Butt back is because at 32 he is too old.

But you propose to recall a 36 year old who is the Second Worst Batsman of All Time Outside Asia?

2016-17 QEA First Class records

Shan Masood 9 matches, 14 innings, 2 not outs, 436 runs @ 36.33, 1x50, 1x100

Mohammad Hafeez 8 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 342 runs @ 36.33, 0x100, 3x50

Salman Butt 10 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 741 runs @ 49.40, 4x100, 2x50

By all means compare Fakhar Zaman or Imam-ul-Haq to Shan Masood.

But Hafeez shouldn't be picked at his age anyway, and certainly not while Salman Butt is more than twice as good.

Exactly. And it goes without saying Hafeez is at least 2 years older than his official age. It is beyond me how all these Pakistani cricketers even manage to look so young despite being older than even their ages suggest. Afridi, who is probably 40, still doesn't look a day older than 30. While Misbah didn't look 42 either when he was clean shaven.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Exactly. And it goes without saying Hafeez is at least 2 years older than his official age. It is beyond me how all these Pakistani cricketers even manage to look so young despite being older than even their ages suggest. Afridi, who is probably 40, still doesn't look a day older than 30. While Misbah didn't look 42 either when he was clean shaven.

Hafeez until his FSc result did not think about becoming a Professional Cricketer. He was fully focused to become an Engineer. Since he hasn't come through Club Cricket, District Cricket from age of 13 years onwards hence I don’t think he tinkered with his Age.


The Only problem with Hafeez is his fitness. He now tends to break down after every few months mainly due to his knee issues. Hafeez had an average FC Season but He wasn't in best of form plus he was dropped from two International formats in last 12 months so added pressure aswell.


Hafeez has struggled against quality pacers in all formats but his overall batting average in last 7 years in Tests & Odi's is satisfactory and currently his bowling is again getting better. He has been Most Valuable Player with Bat & Ball in Last 7 years for Pakistan.

 

[Boi]

Needs to be someone who can bowl abit of seam up. Get Talat in.

 

[arehaan]

I dont think we can open with Hafeez in Test given his limitation against swinging ball. Moreover there always remain a risk of getting him banned due to over-bowling as his action is always under scrutiny and this was the reason he got banned last time as well after clearing the action test. He should be effectively utilized in ODI and T20 cricket and we can look towards Harris Sohail / Fawad Alam / Azhar Ali to bowl 10-15 overs in a day.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Needs to be someone who can bowl abit of seam up. Get Talat in.

Tallat has hardly bowled in FC Cricket. He is not ready. Test Cricket is not for Experiments.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I dont think we can open with Hafeez in Test given his limitation against swinging ball. Moreover there always remain a risk of getting him banned due to over-bowling as his action is always under scrutiny and this was the reason he got banned last time as well after clearing the action test. He should be effectively utilized in ODI and T20 cricket and we can look towards Harris Sohail / Fawad Alam / Azhar Ali to bowl 10-15 overs in a day.

If Hafeez is picked again He would most likely Occupy number 6 Spot. Certainly Sami Aslam & Azhar Ali would open and should open.

When we need 5 bowlers Hafeez will be in playing eleven. When we feel for certain surfaces 4 bowlers are enough than a genuine batsman like Usman, Haris or Fawad would be and should be preferred over Hafeez.


For instance look at New Zealand. They sometimes pick Neesham in playing Eleven, sometimes they opt for Corey Anderson and sometimes they don't pick either of them and go for a Batsman. There choice depends upon Nature of Wicket & the Opposition.

 

[coy0607]

I am implacably opposed to this.

The only reason I don't want Salman Butt back is because at 32 he is too old.

But you propose to recall a 36 year old who is the Second Worst Batsman of All Time Outside Asia?

2016-17 QEA First Class records

Shan Masood 9 matches, 14 innings, 2 not outs, 436 runs @ 36.33, 1x50, 1x100

Mohammad Hafeez 8 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 342 runs @ 36.33, 0x100, 3x50

Salman Butt 10 matches, 16 innings, 1 not out, 741 runs @ 49.40, 4x100, 2x50

By all means compare Fakhar Zaman or Imam-ul-Haq to Shan Masood.

But Hafeez shouldn't be picked at his age anyway, and certainly not while Salman Butt is more than twice as good.

I hate Hafeez as much as the next guy, but there is no comparison with Butt

Hafeez would play as an all-rounder, and a bowling all-rounder at that... Salman Butt would play as a opener who averages 30 and hasn't played in 7+ years

 

[TahirFan]

Hafeez

 

[ads101]

Hafeez by a mile is the best choice for a fifth choice bowler. But don't think his test batting is up to par, so not the choice. Don't think he can opener anymore even in asia, has been handling the pacers even shakier than usual, his reflexes are slowing. He would do better middle order, but then do we really want Hafeez to play in middle order one or two years rather than developing players who can play for many years and average around 50 in fc? I don't think it's worth, nor do i think Hafeez would necessarily outperform them.

Hafeez would be an upgrade over Shan. I'm hoping shehzad comes good, but the way he's looking is awful. I think Hafeez would outperform both atm. Sami I hope comes back.

People like to hate Hafeez, but the reason why he even stayed in the test team so long was the fact he was better than the rest. Averaged just under 40 and an asset with the ball. He was useful. There was no point playing Khurram, Shan etc. who averaged less and no other assets. Sami was the first to step up in England (and very sad he's dropped now). It wouldn't even be an exaggeration to say Hafeez was the second best test opener (after Azhar now that he opens) we had since Anwar, the quality of our openers has been diabolicals, guys like Farhat, Butt, Nazir averaging 30, terrible fielders (well Nazir wasn't the others were) and no bowling. Hafeez won us games in Asia, those other guys didn't win us much anywhere really.

I hope what will happen is that Azhar, Fawad and Haris maybe (or other decent part timers) will combine to perform a 5th bowler role. Won't be as good as hafeez, but it'll do and will be worth the extra batting strength. A bit disappointed with Azhar Ali actually, hoped he could fulfil the role given he was a bowler first, and though excellent with the bat has been worse with the ball than expected.

I would not play a guy who is not good enough with the bat but gets in because he can bowl a bit e.g yamin/hamad or someone, we need a strong batting order, and our tail is weak enough as it is. These days most team have proper batsmen 1-7, and then the bowler at 8 is averaging 25/30 anyway. Prefer if those guys can get good enough with the ball that they can make it at 8 as a full time bowler. But don't really think any allrounder in test cricket is that good yet.

 

[yasir]

I am surprise nobody mention Shadab, he is somebody you have to develop for test allrounder in Asia, he could be main bowler in matter of year or two...Pakistan cannot waste a talent like that in LOIs only... We need a leg spinner who can actually spin the ball.

Hafeez is not top4/5 batsman, there are million batsmen better than him. We cannot compromise opening, Azhar and Sami are miles ahead of Hafeez(or Shezad or Shaun), why one would compromise opening slot?? - That is specialized position, not a fill in slot for allrounder :

Seaming allrounder are rare, Talat looks like a good batsmen, not sure about his bowling...You generally need seaming allrounder outside Asia, which we are not going to play for some time, that's why its more important to develop Shadab...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Haris sohail, Umar Amin, fawad Alam, hafeez, Sami aslam all should be in for

Misbah, younis, shaan, shehzad and asad

 

[Justcrazy]

To be honest Pakistan does not have any one at the moment who can be all rounder at Test level.

They can look to improve Azhar Ali by giving him more overs , he and Fawad can bowl 6 - 10 overs each on a day.

 

[ShahzadK]

Imad Wasim Is also an Option With FC batting Avreage Of 41.

 

[amvbfm]

Test players must be selected based on their core abilities. Selecting a batsman just because he can turn his arm over or a bowler who can hit a few might work in LOIs but is not the right strategy in tests. I don't think any of the names mentioned are good enough for tests.

To me Shadab appears to be the best long term option for Asian wickets where we can play 2 seamers and 2 spinners with Hafeez (who it appears will definitely make a comeback in the middle order) as the fifth bowling option.

For away series balancing the team will be trickier. If Hafeez can contribute with the bat, then he is the best allrounder we have at the moment but assuming he fails and is kicked out (unlikely) I personally think we should go with 6 bats and a wk with Haris and Azhar to support Yasir and three seamers.

 

[ChinMusic]

It is clear that this 4 bowler strategy is not working for Pakistan where we keep letting the opposition off the hook in the first innings after getting 5-6 wickets early due to the pacers running out of gas in the second innings and looking equally ineffective in the second innings.

Now that Misbah and Younis Khan have retired, i believe the following line up looks the best possible combination

1) Azhar Ali
2) Ahmed Shehzad/Mohd Hafeez
3) Babar Azam
4) Asad Shafiq
5) Umar Akmal
6) Sarfaraz Ahmed
7) Aamir Yamin/Finger spinning all rounder
8) Yasir Shah
9) Mohd Amir
10) Hasan Ali
11) Mohd Abbass

By playing the above combination, we have 3 confirmed full time pacers who can be used in short sharp bursts and have the best chance of bowling at full tilt without running out of gas in later spells.

We have a pace bowling all rounder who can ease the workload while maybe pick up a wicket or two while being no mug with the bat. On a pure spinning wicket we can look to give a chance to a finger spinning all rounder like Imad Wasim.

We have Yasir Shah who can be used as an attacking option bowling at least 20-25 overs a day.

We have Hafeez who can be relied upon to bowl 10-15 economical overs a day while maybe even picking up a wicket or 2. I know he is not a popular batting choice but cmon he is an upgrade over Shan Masood

We have Azhar Ali who can roll his arm over for a few overs and maybe even get lucky with a wicket.

We have 7-8 reliable batting options as well. I believe this is the best possible combination going forward.

seriously? Haffez or Shahzad and Akmal... seriously? Umar Akmal?
this is def a disaster , worst batting lineup for a few decades... weaker than bangladesh even

Azhar Ali
Umar Amin/Harris Sohail (either will do)
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq (last chance or 2... if not then replace him with one of Umar Amin or Harris Sohail)
Fawad Alam (has to be him)
Sarfraz Ahmad
Shadab Khan (wasnt the best of debut but def he needs another chance and he is decent enough with bat, better than most bowling allrounders)
M Aamir
Yasir Shah
Hassan Ali
Mhd Abbas

 

[Brilliance]

Sami Aslam.
Azhar Ali.
Babar Azam.
Asad Shafiq.
Haris Sohail/ Tallat
Salahuddin.
Sarfaraz.
Amir.
Hassan.
Yasir.
Abbas.

 

[Kianig89]

Fawad Alam Nawaz Sami A slam Imad all can be tried

 

[Kianig89]

Team post MisYou era should be

Azhar
Shehzad/Sami/Shan
Babar
Akmal
Asad
Haris
Sarfraz
Yasir
Hassan
Amir
A bass

Don't devalue test caps by charitably giving debut to n00bs like Iftikhar etal with MisYou gone that's subtracted 200 test caps from the side go with experience first may be through Fawad in the mix but not perpetuity like Hafeez

 

[ads101]

I am surprise nobody mention Shadab, he is somebody you have to develop for test allrounder in Asia, he could be main bowler in matter of year or two...Pakistan cannot waste a talent like that in LOIs only... We need a leg spinner who can actually spin the ball.

Hafeez is not top4/5 batsman, there are million batsmen better than him. We cannot compromise opening, Azhar and Sami are miles ahead of Hafeez(or Shezad or Shaun), why one would compromise opening slot?? - That is specialized position, not a fill in slot for allrounder :

Seaming allrounder are rare, Talat looks like a good batsmen, not sure about his bowling...You generally need seaming allrounder outside Asia, which we are not going to play for some time, that's why its more important to develop Shadab...

Shadab isnt ready for test cricket. And as long as Yasir is there, i don't see the point of them.

I also think while Shadab has potential, he ain't really a batsman. Not good enough to hold a batting position at 6, or even an allrounder position honestly. Think he's more a no.8 position bowler.

 

[ChinMusic]

can u explain what has the brainless akmal done to deserve a place in the team?

 

[yasir]

Shadab isnt ready for test cricket. And as long as Yasir is there, i don't see the point of them.

I also think while Shadab has potential, he ain't really a batsman. Not good enough to hold a batting position at 6, or even an allrounder position honestly. Think he's more a no.8 position bowler.

That's not true and very short sighted view, a typical Pakistani mentality. He is very capable bowler and very good prospect for allrounder. Pakistan has stopped building allrounders because now we don't play anybody at top. When was the last time we used pinch hitter?? - Afridi and Razaq become allrounder because they were tried consistently at no1/3 position. Nobody is born allrounder, you look at potential and develop it.

If we only employ pakay papaya players, we would have never seen Wasim, Waqar, Mushi because non of them were ready day one, it took them 2 years before they were hit... Shadab bowled some very good spells in second test even better than Yasir, but looks like we don't have stomach to develop player anymore...He is more than test ready, but Misbahism has gone too deep in the system, Pakistan will never have flair and risk taker, atleast for decade, we will remain bottom tier and boring team, filled with middle age average FC players. All these FC spreadsheet players are not giving us next big thing, it never will

 

[Hasan123]

Shadab, Talat, and Yamin are all good options.

Keep TTF Hafeez away.

 

[Ellipsism]

Shadab isnt ready for test cricket. And as long as Yasir is there, i don't see the point of them.

I also think while Shadab has potential, he ain't really a batsman. Not good enough to hold a batting position at 6, or even an allrounder position honestly. Think he's more a no.8 position bowler.

You don't know what your talking about. Shadab is very much capable of batting in the top seven.