Pahalgam: Options for Pakistan?

[LordJames]

Let me start by stating clearly: I do not believe the Pakistan Army or the ISI are behind this incident. The situation is highly volatile, and any such action would risk immediate and uncontrollable escalation. At present, the military leadership stands to gain nothing from such a move, nor are they in a position—strategically or operationally—to initiate or execute an operation of this magnitude.

This development appears to have caught them off guard. It’s something they will now be forced to respond to and manage, rather than something they orchestrated.

India has stepped onto the escalation ladder, and only sustained and intense pressure is likely to compel it to deescalate. While the five points outlined by the Indian Foreign Office may seem like a cautious start, it would be both unwise and a strategic misstep for Pakistan to respond passively. A robust non-kinetic response is essential.

In the short to medium term, Pakistan does not face any immediate existential threats, as India must still overcome significant technological, environmental, and logistical challenges before escalating the water issue further. The rest of the stuff in Indian response is BS and already non-existent.

Pakistan’s potential options in response to India may include:

• Suspending the Shimla Agreement;
• Referring the Indus Waters Treaty to the International Court of Justice.

Let me repeat again, it will be huge mistake of monumental consequences for Pakistan not to respond simply because the first step is a slow burner.

Simultaneously, the Pakistan Army must take decisive internal steps: the immediate release of Imran Khan is imperative. The political space must be cleared to prepare for any escalation. The ISI should refocus on its core national security responsibilities rather than being entangled in domestic surveillance and political manipulation. Continuing to detain Imran Khan under the current circumstances would be a grave misjudgment—should kinetic escalation occur, the Army cannot be expected to simultaneously manage war, internal instability, and counterinsurgency.

Military preparedness is essential—political rhetoric without credible defense capability is futile. Pakistan must signal strength, not indecision.

Therefore, Pakistan should promptly conduct a public test of its next-generation hypersonic missile systems and make it unequivocally clear that any Indian kinetic action will be met with a swift, decisive, and disproportionate response.

Neither India nor its Western partners can afford a destabilized Indian market. Pakistan must leverage this fact strategically.

 

[LordJames]

India’s stronger economy is both its greatest asset and a significant vulnerability. The West has long sought to position India as a counterweight to China, which makes any economic destabilization a strategic setback—not only for India, but also for Western interests. In such a scenario, China stands to benefit directly, and that’s a risk the West can ill afford.

Moreover, powerful business conglomerates like the Ambanis and Adanis cannot afford disruptions that would damage their bottom line. A full-scale conflict with Pakistan—especially one that triggers a swift and disproportionate response—would be a nightmare scenario. The economic and political fallout would be rapid and far-reaching.

Its the only card, Pakistan has to force India off the escalation ladder.

According to PTI's Shahbaz Gill, the government and the army orchestrated the incident to divert public attention away from PTI and Imran Khan, while also trying to stir patriotic sentiment in favor of the Pakistan Army.

If he said this, it is dumb and if he didn't and you are joking then I don't believe that it is time for jokes.

 

[emranabbas]

India’s stronger economy is both its greatest asset and a significant vulnerability. The West has long sought to position India as a counterweight to China, which makes any economic destabilization a strategic setback—not only for India, but also for Western interests. In such a scenario, China stands to benefit directly, and that’s a risk the West can ill afford.

Moreover, powerful business conglomerates like the Ambanis and Adanis cannot afford disruptions that would damage their bottom line. A full-scale conflict with Pakistan—especially one that triggers a swift and disproportionate response—would be a nightmare scenario. The economic and political fallout would be rapid and far-reaching.

Its the only card, Pakistan has to force India off the escalation ladder.


If he said this, it is dumb and if he didn't and you are joking then I don't believe that it is time for jokes.

No I'm not joking

 

[Vikram1989]

This op is quite prejudiced with hindus. Does not he think even one Muslim exists who thinks India as first thing. I have a Indian Muslim friend and a pak Muslim friend where I live.even though pak guy behaves like a uncle mindset with little high handedness ( his usual style) , I will prefer to trust him blindly then indian Muslim(He is from my native place and speaks my language) who is as good as snake. So u don't have to generalise everything in one .

 

[Vikram1989]

This op is quite prejudiced with hindus. Does not he think even one Muslim exists who thinks India as first thing. I have a Indian Muslim friend and a pak Muslim friend where I live.even though pak guy behaves like a uncle mindset with little high handedness ( his usual style) , I will prefer to trust him blindly then indian Muslim(He is from my native place and speaks my language) who is as good as snake. So u don't have to generalise everything in one .

Ah my bad , this was supposed to be do u have Indian friends thread.

 

[LordJames]

Ah my bad , this was supposed to be do u have Indian friends thread.

This op is quite prejudiced with hindus. Does not he think even one Muslim exists who thinks India as first thing. I have a Indian Muslim friend and a pak Muslim friend where I live.even though pak guy behaves like a uncle mindset with little high handedness ( his usual style) , I will prefer to trust him blindly then indian Muslim(He is from my native place and speaks my language) who is as good as snake. So u don't have to generalise everything in one .

I hate for any innocent civilian to be harmed in anyway whatever (Hindu, Muslim, anyone)

I don't hate anyone but if it makes you sleep better hoping that India will attack and nothing will happen in return, please go ahead. There will be loss of life and property on both sides and it will be tragic but India has decided to go up the escalation ladder by depriving innocent and noncombatant civilians of water, you clearly have no thoughts and no concerns about that.

I do have concerns and care for anyone getting hurt (Muslim or Hindu) and I hope and pray that this deescalates and quickly.

 

[chinaman00]

Both Pakistan and India are using proxies to wreck havoc. The BLA & TTP are funded and controlled by RAW as widely documented. These terror groups have engaged in mindless terror attacks.

Both India and Pakistan will continue to use proxies as long as the core differences remain. Pakistan never had any plans to attack India but Indian delusions of “punishing” (whatever that means) Pakistan has locked both both the Indian government and a wide segment of the Indian people in a rhetorical trap.

As proven in the failed Balakot attack and Pakistan’s highly successful Swift Retort reprisal attacks, Pakistan retains a conventional edge against India. Because both countries are nuclear armed, any engagement will quickly deescalate for fear of nuclear exchange. In nuclear exchange, Pakistan also retains an edge as India has more to lose given Pakistan is already a banana republic teetering on an implosion.

Best response for India is to wait it out and watch Pakistan self-destruct but given the unrealistic and fictional hype created by the Indian media and Bollywood, India will have to retaliate and get bruised again suffering global mockery as seen on NYT headlines after Swift Retort.

 

[Vikram1989]

I don't hate anyone but if it makes you sleep better hoping that India will attack and nothing will happen in return, please go ahead.

Has i said anything at all about the issue?

 

[Romali_rotti]

There definitely won't be a war, Indians have too much to lose here, their economy is on the rise can't afford a conflict now..

Indians will however cause a few other issues for Pakistan I feel.

 

[Devadwal]

this is what Pakistan can do.

 

[JaDed]

Both Pakistan and India are using proxies to wreck havoc. The BLA & TTP are funded and controlled by RAW as widely documented. These terror groups have engaged in mindless terror attacks.

Both India and Pakistan will continue to use proxies as long as the core differences remain. Pakistan never had any plans to attack India but Indian delusions of “punishing” (whatever that means) Pakistan has locked both both the Indian government and a wide segment of the Indian people in a rhetorical trap.

As proven in the failed Balakot attack and Pakistan’s highly successful Swift Retort reprisal attacks, Pakistan retains a conventional edge against India. Because both countries are nuclear armed, any engagement will quickly deescalate for fear of nuclear exchange. In nuclear exchange, Pakistan also retains an edge as India has more to lose given Pakistan is already a banana republic teetering on an implosion.

Best response for India is to wait it out and watch Pakistan self-destruct but given the unrealistic and fictional hype created by the Indian media and Bollywood, India will have to retaliate and get bruised again suffering global mockery as seen on NYT headlines after Swift Retort.

NYT becomes the epitome of truth when posting on India and Zionist Media when posting on Israel.

 

[JaDed]

So the narrative is it caught the Establishment off guard and now they might have to respond.

You can start writing for bollywood too Janab.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan routines missile test is coming up in few days but pakistan awam - ye dekho india humme missiles chood di hai

 

[kingusama92]

I hope whatever decision is made veers towards de-escalation from both sides.

Innocent Indians and Pakistanis should not have to pay for the actions of bad actors. I see calls for harmful actions like shutting off the water or exchanging attacks as nothing more than further harming innocent people going about their lives.

It might soothe the soul in the short term but creates instability that will last for generations. This goes for both India and Pakistani governments.

 

[straighttalk]

I hope whatever decision is made veers towards de-escalation from both sides.

Innocent Indians and Pakistanis should not have to pay for the actions of bad actors. I see calls for harmful actions like shutting off the water or exchanging attacks as nothing more than further harming innocent people going about their lives.

It might soothe the soul in the short term but creates instability that will last for generations. This goes for both India and Pakistani governments.

The fact of the matter is that India will not descalate this time. The nation is furious with Modi and wants to decimate the actual players behind the scene. Pak is a terror factory which generates cannon fodder terrorist to be sent to death..killing the terrorist as we are doing now is useless as a new one will be generated. It's time to damage the factory. Destroying it will result in escalation but what will happen is a punitive strike that will have to be public humiliation with the ones on Pakistan to escalate. The pain must be felt by the Pak generals and not the jihadis who are sacrificial pigs. Blood has to be answered by blood. And no it's not non state actors..it's state actors like isi sponsoring and training the cannon fodder pigs.

What you are saying is just sermonizing peace when your countrymen come and kill innocent's over the years in the name of religion...you don't get to stay safe in your country and call for peace as you kill civilians in other countries. Your country has zero credibility..it's retirement home for every terrorist in the world...Osama hafeez kashmiri dawood..and so on...your economy is in tatters..the time is ripe to strike hard and let Pak retaliate giving causus belli to escalate.

We have zero intention to invade Pak or take land as bringing in a jehadi population is going to damage India in long run...but the lesson needs to be brutal..so that Pak thinks again before sending piglets to my land.

 

[straighttalk]

I hope whatever decision is made veers towards de-escalation from both sides.

Innocent Indians and Pakistanis should not have to pay for the actions of bad actors. I see calls for harmful actions like shutting off the water or exchanging attacks as nothing more than further harming innocent people going about their lives.

It might soothe the soul in the short term but creates instability that will last for generations. This goes for both India and Pakistani governments.

Innocent blood has been shed in India and will be shed again ..so what will change now

There is instability...we want to end it.

 

[straighttalk]

Both Pakistan and India are using proxies to wreck havoc. The BLA & TTP are funded and controlled by RAW as widely documented. These terror groups have engaged in mindless terror attacks.

Both India and Pakistan will continue to use proxies as long as the core differences remain. Pakistan never had any plans to attack India but Indian delusions of “punishing” (whatever that means) Pakistan has locked both both the Indian government and a wide segment of the Indian people in a rhetorical trap.

As proven in the failed Balakot attack and Pakistan’s highly successful Swift Retort reprisal attacks, Pakistan retains a conventional edge against India. Because both countries are nuclear armed, any engagement will quickly deescalate for fear of nuclear exchange. In nuclear exchange, Pakistan also retains an edge as India has more to lose given Pakistan is already a banana republic teetering on an implosion.

Best response for India is to wait it out and watch Pakistan self-destruct but given the unrealistic and fictional hype created by the Indian media and Bollywood, India will have to retaliate and get bruised again suffering global mockery as seen on NYT headlines after Swift Retort.

Losing a f16 to a Mig21 is not conventional edge .hell missiles can be fired undetected in your land..planes can fly in unchallenged...what conventional edge are you talking about ..do you get your sources from the same media which claims Pak won 1971 1965 and Kargil war...you guys are as confident as you are before every cricket match.

 

[Bhaijaan]

How about start with condemning the incident from the bottom of the heart with utmost sincerity and offering to cooperate to bring justice to the victims? At least try to make it seem like you had no hand in this, although I do feel Kashmiris threw you all under the bus this time to save their asses.

 

[straighttalk]

There are two separate issues here. First, the terrorist attack itself, which I completely condemn there’s no justification for the killing of innocent people.

But the second issue is that Pakistan is being blamed for the actions of these terrorists, despite having no connection to the Pakistani government or the pakistani army

What’s concerning is that the Indian government appears to be using this incident as a pretext to take action against Pakistan, which is both unfair and dangerous and some PTI supporters are supporting this action by the Indian government because they have differences with the Pakistani government and the Pakistani army.

The whole world know Pak is a state sponsor of terrorism. You build mansions for Osama dawood hafeez kashmiri.
You run Madrassas to train and send youth to die in foreign lands.

Your messages are recorded in Mumbai attack...your agents have been deported from USA.your govt accepted their role in Mumbai. Your general has publicly said you will arm and support terrorism.

So that's why you are being blamed.

And why are you worried about action. It's just water...you can get water routed via Kashmir or Iran or undertake desalination. It will take India a long time to build the dams and turn off water flow for every terrorist attacks..you will have at least five or six more attacks before your canals dry out.

 

[Hitman]

War? Not happening.

 

[BouncerGuy]

THREAD IS NOT ABOUT PTI.. SO STAY ON TOPIC NOW

 

[Devadwal]

Most likely they will end Shimla agreement. FYI Shimla was long dead - the two keywords - BILATERAL & PEACEFUL were thrown in the dustbin within 4-5 years of the signing.

 

[Energy]

The fact of the matter is that India will not descalate this time. The nation is furious with Modi and wants to decimate the actual players behind the scene. Pak is a terror factory which generates cannon fodder terrorist to be sent to death..killing the terrorist as we are doing now is useless as a new one will be generated. It's time to damage the factory. Destroying it will result in escalation but what will happen is a punitive strike that will have to be public humiliation with the ones on Pakistan to escalate. The pain must be felt by the Pak generals and not the jihadis who are sacrificial pigs. Blood has to be answered by blood. And no it's not non state actors..it's state actors like isi sponsoring and training the cannon fodder pigs.

What you are saying is just sermonizing peace when your countrymen come and kill innocent's over the years in the name of religion...you don't get to stay safe in your country and call for peace as you kill civilians in other countries. Your country has zero credibility..it's retirement home for every terrorist in the world...Osama hafeez kashmiri dawood..and so on...your economy is in tatters..the time is ripe to strike hard and let Pak retaliate giving causus belli to escalate.

We have zero intention to invade Pak or take land as bringing in a jehadi population is going to damage India in long run...but the lesson needs to be brutal..so that Pak thinks again before sending piglets to my land.

Can imagine this guy being a crooked tooth, bespectacled, hormone-prone, loser who has just joined the forum to vent out venom from the keyboard because he cannot play outside.

Thread is about options for Pakistan- there are no options as the country is battling poor governance (national, provincial) anyway for years and surviving. The only topic which unites them is a topic on Indians.

 

[deltexas]

War? Not happening.

Yeah - wars don't do good to any country. .

 

[sweep_shot]

The fact of the matter is that India will not descalate this time.

Did a representative of Indian government call your cell phone and tell you that? How do you know this?

 

[Hitman]

Yeah - wars don't do good to any country. .

Yes, loss of lives and loss of enormous amount of money that hurts the economy.

 

[straighttalk]

Did a representative of Indian government call your cell phone and tell you that? How do you know this? U

Unlike your non democratic country ..the govt of India is guided by what the population wants ..else they will be voted out next election specially given that Modi has cultivated a strongman nationalistic image..if blood is not replied in blood..he will look like a loser...question is if he will take the easy way out and do a token attack or deal a more strategic blow. That I don't know.

 

[straighttalk]

Can imagine this guy being a crooked tooth, bespectacled, hormone-prone, loser who has just joined the forum to vent out venom from the keyboard because he cannot play outside.

Thread is about options for Pakistan- there are no options as the country is battling poor governance (national, provincial) anyway for years and surviving. The only topic which unites them is a topic on Indians.

I am impressed ..your imagination of me is spot on. Kudos.
But get some reading lessons from educated awam in your mulk..read my answer and then understand it and realize you make no sense. I responded to someone post ...not discussing options for Pakistan. If thread is about options..why are you explaining what unites Pakistan ...lmao

 

[Farhan The Man]

Let me start by stating clearly: I do not believe the Pakistan Army or the ISI are behind this incident.

Ok then. Your personal "belief" settles the issue.

Of course empirical doesn't matter wherein anti-pak army sentiment is an all time high. And reviving kashmir sentiment is their last refuge.

This is how fauji bois have stolen national wealth since inception, their slogan being: kashmir banega pakistan. But inshallah.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We should open our arms and hug the Indian people. In mourning if they give us a few small punches we should take it and weather it. They are going through a lot. You see at funerals sometimes the grieving party lashes out at everyone, but one shouldn't respond. Instead just be there for our neighbours through thick and thin.

Once the dust has settled we must immediately have conversations on next steps and how to escape this bind of 70 years. The indians are convinced that the Kashmiris are happy being part of the flourishing economy of India. Let's have a referendum under the direct supervision of the UN/EU/Russia/US to settle the matter forever. It will give both countries a way to save face and move on if the result doesn't go their way because the Kashmiris will have made the decision.

Indians also have great respect for Donald Trump. He offered to mediate on the issue in 2019, at the time it made India angry, but perhaps now they will be more receptive to Trump's vision? They seem to be onboard with him in general, so it would make sense.

This is what he said then

It is impossible to believe that two incredible countries who are very, very smart with very smart leadership can’t solve a problem like that,” Trump said. “If you would want me to mediate or arbitrate, I would be willing to do it.”

Too much blood has been spilt. It can only be settled at the negotiation table. A resolution or a way out is needed.

 

[sweep_shot]

Unlike your non democratic country ..the govt of India is guided by what the population wants ..else they will be voted out next election specially given that Modi has cultivated a strongman nationalistic image..if blood is not replied in blood..he will look like a loser...question is if he will take the easy way out and do a token attack or deal a more strategic blow. That I don't know.

I wouldn't mind if Modi gets voted out and Rahul Gandhi comes to power.

 

[Major]

How about start with condemning the incident from the bottom of the heart with utmost sincerity and offering to cooperate to bring justice to the victims? At least try to make it seem like you had no hand in this, although I do feel Kashmiris threw you all under the bus this time to save their asses.

If india couldnt condemn bla attack, we dont have to say anything

 

[Major]

We should open our arms and hug the Indian people. In mourning if they give us a few small punches we should take it and weather it. They are going through a lot. You see at funerals sometimes the grieving party lashes out at everyone, but one shouldn't respond. Instead just be there for our neighbours through thick and thin.

Once the dust has settled we must immediately have conversations on next steps and how to escape this bind of 70 years. The indians are convinced that the Kashmiris are happy being part of the flourishing economy of India. Let's have a referendum under the direct supervision of the UN/EU/Russia/US to settle the matter forever. It will give both countries a way to save face and move on if the result doesn't go their way because the Kashmiris will have made the decision.

Indians also have great respect for Donald Trump. He offered to mediate on the issue in 2019, at the time it made India angry, but perhaps now they will be more receptive to Trump's vision? They seem to be onboard with him in general, so it would make sense.

This is what he said then

It is impossible to believe that two incredible countries who are very, very smart with very smart leadership can’t solve a problem like that,” Trump said. “If you would want me to mediate or arbitrate, I would be willing to do it.”

Too much blood has been spilt. It can only be settled at the negotiation table. A resolution or a way out is needed.

I doubt the kashmiris are happy. Indians have started attacking kashmiris all over india....

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I doubt the kashmiris are happy. Indians have started attacking kashmiris all over india....

Brother many of the Indians who left India to move to Canada, US and America for jobs are saying the Kashmiris are happy and want to stay in India because of Indias economy.

Whatever the situation the only way to have official recognition of their views is to hold referendum. If they vote for India or independence it's a good way for Pakistan to move on from the issue too.

 

[Devadwal]

Most likely they will end Shimla agreement. FYI Shimla was long dead - the two keywords - BILATERAL & PEACEFUL were thrown in the dustbin within 4-5 years of the signing.

Another one is Pakistan can ban overflights of commercial airlines to and from India through Pakistani airspace

 

[Bhaijaan]

If india couldnt condemn bla attack, we dont have to say anything

You want to become Bharat?
If yes its ok

If not then why would you follow us when we are wrong but not follow us when we do right.

Explain brother

 

[Vikram1989]

Brother many of the Indians who left India to move to Canada, US and America for jobs are saying the Kashmiris are happy and want to stay in India because of Indias economy.

Whatever the situation the only way to have official recognition of their views is to hold referendum. If they vote for India or independence it's a good way for Pakistan to move on from the issue too.

Major issue for pak (army) is that they have to vacate from azad kashmir/ pok too.so plebiscite is for entire kashmir and it will never happen.But it will be very complicated result due to development, economy, brutality on both sides, religion factor, future economic gains

 

[straighttalk]

Major issue for pak (army) is that they have to vacate from azad kashmir/ pok too.so plebiscite is for entire kashmir and it will never happen.But it will be very complicated result due to development, economy, brutality on both sides, religion factor, future economic gains

Not to mention they need to get the original Pandits back in the valley. Didn't they commit genocide there in the name of Allah .so no referendum when they drove people out by chanting in Allahs name and killing people

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Major issue for pak (army) is that they have to vacate from azad kashmir/ pok too.so plebiscite is for entire kashmir and it will never happen.But it will be very complicated result due to development, economy, brutality on both sides, religion factor, future economic gains

Pak army will have to bite the bullet and vacate and it something that can be done under international supervision. Referendum is the only way forward.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not to mention they need to get the original Pandits back in the valley. Didn't they commit genocide there in the name of Allah .so no referendum when they drove people out by chanting in Allahs name and killing people

Around 30 pandits were tragically killed as a result of Indian policies in the region. 100,000 left the region. If they can be traced and were those who fled, they should be able to have the provision to vote too.

We should draw the line there, as it will be an endless struggle trying to identify those Muslim Kashmiris who were kidnapped and killed by the Hindu army. It will be even more challenging to acknowledge those murdered and buried in mass graves by the same army.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

First of all they should ask publicly for India to provide any evidence to the world of Pakistan's involvement in the attack, given that India has already started punitive actions against Pakistan in order to damage Pakistan's reputation.

 

[Devadwal]

Pak army will have to bite the bullet and vacate and it something that can be done under international supervision. Referendum is the only way forward.

Agree about Referendum

In the first step, Pakistan was asked to withdraw all its nationals from Kashmir. .

When is Pakistan going to withdrawal all of its nationals from Kashmir? Updates me when they done the first steps.

I'll asked you later about the update as you love the latest updates.

 

[BouncerGuy]

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC... THREAD IS NOT ABOUT BANGALDESH ETC

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Agree about Referendum

In the first step, Pakistan was asked to withdraw all its nationals from Kashmir. .

When is Pakistan going to withdrawal all of its nationals from Kashmir? Updates me when they done the first steps.

I'll asked you later about the update as you love the latest updates.

It will have to be done under supervision of international framework both countries subscribe to and implement under international guarantees. Under the current climate neither side will trust the other.

 

[Vikram1989]

Pak army will have to bite the bullet and vacate and it something that can be done under international supervision. Referendum is the only way forward.

No way pak army will take it as they ripped of entire pak in the name of India. It's too big to ask .even a lot of left and right wing politicians in india will go mad for loosing a political weapon

 

[emranabbas]

@LordJames

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915274180636840338

 

[BouncerGuy]

@LordJames

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915274180636840338

LOL at this clown... ADIL RAJA??? SERIOUSLY??

 

[emranabbas]

@LordJames @Major

You're talking about freeing Imran Khan and having everyone sit at the same table but what's the guarantee that Imran Khan and his fauj (ie supporters) won’t end up siding with the Indian army and fighting against Pakistan’s own military?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No way pak army will take it as they ripped of entire pak in the name of India. It's too big to ask .even a lot of left and right wing politicians in india will go mad for loosing a political weapon

There as element of truth to this but the situation is exaggerated by Indians who paint Pakistan certain ways for their domestic audience.

Regardless, if Indians are confident firstly that their economy is more attractive to the Kashmiris and secondly that Pak won't agree to it then they can expose Pakistan in front of the world.

Occupying Kashmir won't solve the issue long term. It will paper over the cracks but the issues will arise time and time again. Best to let them make a choice and live with it than force it upon them.

 

[chinaman00]

Losing a f16 to a Mig21 is not conventional edge .hell missiles can be fired undetected in your land..planes can fly in unchallenged...what conventional edge are you talking about ..do you get your sources from the same media which claims Pak won 1971 1965 and Kargil war...you guys are as confident as you are before every cricket match.

You must be high to think an F-16 was lost but Indians are welcome to live in their widely rebutted delusion.

 

[chinaman00]

NYT becomes the epitome of truth when posting on India and Zionist Media when posting on Israel.

Who do you prefer? Foreign policy? Independent accredited OSINT accounts? Choose your poison and you will be catered to.

 

[Devadwal]

India statement - Indian nationals are strongly advised to avoid travelling to Pakistan. Those Indian nationals currently in Pakistan are also advised to return to India at the earliest"

 

[Devadwal]

Just in: In atit for tat move, Pakistan announces closure of Wagha border for trade with India, suspends Saarc visas for Indians, declares Indian military diplomats persona non grata, reduces Indian diplomats in Islamabad to 30.

"Pakistan’s airspace will be closed with immediate effect for all Indian owned or Indian operated airlines", says Pakistan statement

Lol I already predicted all of them.

 

[LordJames]

@LordJames

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915274180636840338

I don't believe it and I don't believe everything which comes out of the mouth of Adil Raja.

1. The death of innocent unarmed noncombatants civilians is utterly condemned and no justification for it, whoever did this.
2. Pakistan should respond on the escalation ladder otherwise this will get ugly, nasty and very quickly.

Personally, I am dead against the human rights abuses of Pakistan Army and crackdown on civilians but I do not believe this to be work of Pakistan Army or ISI. I understand the need to implicate Pakistan Army or COAS directly and/or drag Imran Khan or PTI into this.

I also know that after nearly 3 years of brutal crackdown by Pakistan Army, people are rightly frustrated and you may see some idiots (PTI or otherwise) lauding Indians or Indian Army but my experience on this forum is with HIndutva and I believe you are a Muslim so I have trust in your grounding in Islam and upbringing by your parents.

I will leave it at that.

Thanks

@LordJames @Major

You're talking about freeing Imran Khan and having everyone sit at the same table but what's the guarantee that Imran Khan and his fauj (ie supporters) won’t end up siding with the Indian army and fighting against Pakistan’s own military?

As I said, I believe that you are Muslim and I would leave it at that. I have hope that you are not part of Hindutva.

Thanks

 

[emranabbas]

The fact of the matter is that India will not descalate this time. The nation is furious with Modi and wants to decimate the actual players behind the scene. Pak is a terror factory which generates cannon fodder terrorist to be sent to death..killing the terrorist as we are doing now is useless as a new one will be generated. It's time to damage the factory. Destroying it will result in escalation but what will happen is a punitive strike that will have to be public humiliation with the ones on Pakistan to escalate. The pain must be felt by the Pak generals and not the jihadis who are sacrificial pigs. Blood has to be answered by blood. And no it's not non state actors..it's state actors like isi sponsoring and training the cannon fodder pigs.

What you are saying is just sermonizing peace when your countrymen come and kill innocent's over the years in the name of religion...you don't get to stay safe in your country and call for peace as you kill civilians in other countries. Your country has zero credibility..it's retirement home for every terrorist in the world...Osama hafeez kashmiri dawood..and so on...your economy is in tatters..the time is ripe to strike hard and let Pak retaliate giving causus belli to escalate.

We have zero intention to invade Pak or take land as bringing in a jehadi population is going to damage India in long run...but the lesson needs to be brutal..so that Pak thinks again before sending piglets to my land.

imagine you destroying the factory where terrorists are manufactured and it turns out to be the wrong factory while another attack happens on your door step.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Just in: In atit for tat move, Pakistan announces closure of Wagha border for trade with India, suspends Saarc visas for Indians, declares Indian military diplomats persona non grata, reduces Indian diplomats in Islamabad to 30.

"Pakistan’s airspace will be closed with immediate effect for all Indian owned or Indian operated airlines", says Pakistan statement

Lol I already predicted all of them.

And..

 

[shortbread]

@LordJames

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915274180636840338

Adil is ex army and comes from an army family, so there's legitimacy. But Munir is on his case, so this could be vindictive as well.

 

[LordJames]

Adil is ex army and comes from an army family, so there's legitimacy. But Munir is on his case, so this could be vindictive as well.

No.

There is no legitimacy just being ex-Army or coming from an ex-Army family if so then here is another view. Dr Hassaan is brother of a Shaheed, son of a Colonel and bonifide Academic and historian, himself.

When we weigh evidence, we know that there is no strategic or tactical advantage in this.

Dr Hassaan Bokhari (Brother of Captain Isfandyar Shaheed)


I am not alleging that terrorist attacks on civilians (Mumbai/Pahlgam) were orchestrated by our intelligence agencies. However, if any responsible officer even suggests such an approach, he must be fired as such attacks only give an oppressor state like India...

(1/n)

.. the opportunity to gain moral high ground while getting the clean chit to commit dozens of such horrific attacks on Pak soil.Indian-sponsored terrorism must always be responded to by hitting the Indian state apparatus. A reactive policy for a smaller country never works.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Pahalgam attack: FM Dar throws down gauntlet to India to present evidence, if any, of Pakistani involvement

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar on Thursday challenged India to present any evidence, if it had any, of Pakistan’s alleged involvement in a deadly attack in occupied Kashmir.

Addressing a press conference after a high-level meeting of the National Security Committee, FM Dar said: “India has time and again played the blame game and if there is proof of Pakistan’s involvement [in Pahalgam], please share it with us and the world.”

The attack took place in Pahalgam, a tourist hotspot in occupied Kashmir that draws thousands of visitors every summer. Gunmen opened fire on visitors, killing at least 26 people — all men from across India except one from Nepal — and injuring 17 others. It was the region’s deadliest attack on civilians since 2000.

A hitherto unknown group, named by several Indian outlets as ‘The Resistance Front’, is said to have claimed responsibility for the attack.

A day ago, India shut borders, downgraded diplomatic ties and, in an unprecedented move, unilaterally announced the suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) over what the BJP government and media claimed — without offering any evidence — was Islamabad’s alleged support for cross-border terrorism.

In his press conference, FM Dar rattled off the NSC’s decisions and said Pakistan had responded in kind to the Indian announcements.

DAWN NEWS

 

[straighttalk]

There as element of truth to this but the situation is exaggerated by Indians who paint Pakistan certain ways for their domestic audience.

Regardless, if Indians are confident firstly that their economy is more attractive to the Kashmiris and secondly that Pak won't agree to it then they can expose Pakistan in front of the world.

Occupying Kashmir won't solve the issue long term. It will paper over the cracks but the issues will arise time and time again. Best to let them make a choice and live with it than force it upon them.

Are you sure given the undemocratic nature of your country ..you will accept a democratic referendum..last time you didn't like a result..you lost half of the country after killing 3 million innocent... What guarantee do we have that you will follow the rule of democracy....it's better for us to wait and turn off the water and watch pak disintegrate on its own into Pakjabi, Sindh, Baloch, and KP. Why do a referendum when we have nothing to gain by that...there is zilch Pak can do about Kashmir. It is a non issue. Worst is sending these cannon fodder jihadis every few years but that will also die down as there will be consequences now...military and more importantly no crops no food no water and no power ....good times.

 

[straighttalk]

Pahalgam attack: FM Dar throws down gauntlet to India to present evidence, if any, of Pakistani involvement

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar on Thursday challenged India to present any evidence, if it had any, of Pakistan’s alleged involvement in a deadly attack in occupied Kashmir.

Addressing a press conference after a high-level meeting of the National Security Committee, FM Dar said: “India has time and again played the blame game and if there is proof of Pakistan’s involvement [in Pahalgam], please share it with us and the world.”

The attack took place in Pahalgam, a tourist hotspot in occupied Kashmir that draws thousands of visitors every summer. Gunmen opened fire on visitors, killing at least 26 people — all men from across India except one from Nepal — and injuring 17 others. It was the region’s deadliest attack on civilians since 2000.

A hitherto unknown group, named by several Indian outlets as ‘The Resistance Front’, is said to have claimed responsibility for the attack.

A day ago, India shut borders, downgraded diplomatic ties and, in an unprecedented move, unilaterally announced the suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) over what the BJP government and media claimed — without offering any evidence — was Islamabad’s alleged support for cross-border terrorism.

In his press conference, FM Dar rattled off the NSC’s decisions and said Pakistan had responded in kind to the Indian announcements.

DAWN NEWS

Hahaha...proof..when whole world heard the Mumbai tapes..Pak said Kasab was Hindu..
Pak says they won Kargil 1965 and 1971 war.

They said where is Osama...when Osama was VIP in their army base..

They say two planes were shot down and t here pilots captured...then oops only one was found..

They deny that Dawwod is their chief guest.


What good is Pak denial and Pak proof...terrorists are your most values assets .will you hand Hafeez Saaaed over ...or will you say it's circumstantial or India planted it....

Do you think these terrorist carry Pak passport with them ....

You can fool your Abdul's but the whole world knows who you are. Hell even you know it..hence all your restaurants in the West advertise as Indian Pakistani food..a parasite who uses the hated enemy's name ...pathetic

 

[straighttalk]

The factory is Pak army and ISI...that may not be all the factories but that surely is the one we know...rest we can take care as they evolve... So no we won't hit the wrong factory..we may not hit all the factories...but sure as hell the problem will be mitigated if not solved.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

@LordJames

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915274180636840338

This not a time for political point scoring. Raja seems to understand this as he mentions he doesn't want to tar the party as Indian agents, but then he should have kept his mouth shut unless he has some definite proof to his claims.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The factory is Pak army and ISI...that may not be all the factories but that surely is the one we know...rest we can take care as they evolve... So no we won't hit the wrong factory..we may not hit all the factories...but sure as hell the problem will be mitigated if not solved.

Welcome new poster.

 

[pakistani pride]

There definitely won't be a war, Indians have too much to lose here, their economy is on the rise can't afford a conflict now..

Indians will however cause a few other issues for Pakistan I feel.

The arrogance...

Let us wait and see what happens.

 

[HalBass9]

There definitely won't be a war, Indians have too much to lose here, their economy is on the rise can't afford a conflict now..

Indians will however cause a few other issues for Pakistan I feel.

Yes, I believe India will eventually feel the need to escalate toward kinetic conflict, unless it can successfully build a convincing narrative or identify and punish the actual perpetrators.

Because without facts or accountability, pressure builds fast, and when optics matter more than outcomes, escalation becomes the easiest substitute for justice.

 

[JaDed]

Who do you prefer? Foreign policy? Independent accredited OSINT accounts? Choose your poison and you will be catered to.

I cater to Reuters for now, morningbrew being another.
But I don’t take an opinion piece of NYT, they have been anti India since 1970s

 

[Major]

@LordJames @Major

You're talking about freeing Imran Khan and having everyone sit at the same table but what's the guarantee that Imran Khan and his fauj (ie supporters) won’t end up siding with the Indian army and fighting against Pakistan’s own military?

When in war, or in national crises, you need a united a upper and lower house. Even if that means releasing a traitor.

Army has issues with PTM, but when there was a national crises they released them and made sure there reps appeared in the house, and no matter how much the PTM hated the army, when the issue was with regards to Pakistans national security, they sided with the army.

I get your point, but in such a situation of national security Imran would be the biggest idiot to go against the army.

 

[LordJames]

Pahalgam attack: FM Dar throws down gauntlet to India to present evidence, if any, of Pakistani involvement

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar on Thursday challenged India to present any evidence, if it had any, of Pakistan’s alleged involvement in a deadly attack in occupied Kashmir.

Addressing a press conference after a high-level meeting of the National Security Committee, FM Dar said: “India has time and again played the blame game and if there is proof of Pakistan’s involvement [in Pahalgam], please share it with us and the world.”

The attack took place in Pahalgam, a tourist hotspot in occupied Kashmir that draws thousands of visitors every summer. Gunmen opened fire on visitors, killing at least 26 people — all men from across India except one from Nepal — and injuring 17 others. It was the region’s deadliest attack on civilians since 2000.

A hitherto unknown group, named by several Indian outlets as ‘The Resistance Front’, is said to have claimed responsibility for the attack.

A day ago, India shut borders, downgraded diplomatic ties and, in an unprecedented move, unilaterally announced the suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) over what the BJP government and media claimed — without offering any evidence — was Islamabad’s alleged support for cross-border terrorism.

In his press conference, FM Dar rattled off the NSC’s decisions and said Pakistan had responded in kind to the Indian announcements.

DAWN NEWS

I still think that things can be deescalated but when Pakistan Army deploys Zaid Hamid then you know its the point of no return from Pakistan side.

Indians will shiver and concede Kashmir to Pakistan when they see this guy advancing...

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Are you sure given the undemocratic nature of your country ..you will accept a democratic referendum..last time you didn't like a result..you lost half of the country after killing 3 million innocent... What guarantee do we have that you will follow the rule of democracy....it's better for us to wait and turn off the water and watch pak disintegrate on its own into Pakjabi, Sindh, Baloch, and KP. Why do a referendum when we have nothing to gain by that...there is zilch Pak can do about Kashmir. It is a non issue. Worst is sending these cannon fodder jihadis every few years but that will also die down as there will be consequences now...military and more importantly no crops no food no water and no power ....good times.

Disintegration is something Indian media pumps out, it is not likely in the short term. Kashmir may be a non-issue to you but the events of a few days ago have sent shockwaves across your country. It is better that it is resolved.

I don't think you really understand the Indus Water Treaty, by the way. Again, it is lack of education on the matter fuelled by media hysteria. You should read it in more detail. India hasn't turned off some tap overnight.

 

[Devadwal]

I cater to Reuters for now, morningbrew being another.
But I don’t take an opinion piece of NYT, they have been anti India since 1970s

Reality of al jazeera .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The factory is Pak army and ISI...that may not be all the factories but that surely is the one we know...rest we can take care as they evolve... So no we won't hit the wrong factory..we may not hit all the factories...but sure as hell the problem will be mitigated if not solved.

You guys are obsessed with factories. Last week, @Devadwal was building imaginary factories because of Trump's tariffs. This week you want to destroy some imaginary factories.

 

[emranabbas]

Reality of al jazeera .
View attachment 153783

Thought the arabs hated Pakistan and loved the Indians

 

[sweep_shot]

Disintegration is something Indian media pumps out, it is not likely in the short term. Kashmir may be a non-issue to you but the events of a few days ago have sent shockwaves across your country. It is better that it is resolved.

I don't think you really understand the Indus Water Treaty, by the way. Again, it is lack of education on the matter fuelled by media hysteria. You should read it in more detail. India hasn't turned off some tap overnight.

@straighttalk acts like he is the spokesperson for government of India.

These guys truly live in an alternative reality.

 

[straighttalk]

Disintegration is something Indian media pumps out, it is not likely in the short term. Kashmir may be a non-issue to you but the events of a few days ago have sent shockwaves across your country. It is better that it is resolved.

I don't think you really understand the Indus Water Treaty, by the way. Again, it is lack of education on the matter fuelled by media hysteria. You should read it in more detail. India hasn't turned off some tap overnight.

You are putting time lines..I am not .who said it's gonna happen in five years..we just have to be patient and squeeze economically diplomatically and culturally. By being the vanguard of Islamic terrorism...you are already non grata to most and by being a economic gone case...there isn't much value. The only value is geographical location and a useful ally to China for counteracting India.

Why would we do referendum..when Kashmir is a state and UT OF India. There is nothing to discuss here beyond terrorists coming to our state and killing innocents in the name of Allah and under Pak armies direction. That is the issue for us.

Water isn't going to be shut down today. I didn't claim it. It just helps us to irrigate our lands better...build the infrastructure to have that capability. And if better sense prevails then we can talk it out.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There definitely won't be a war, Indians have too much to lose here, their economy is on the rise can't afford a conflict now..

Indians will however cause a few other issues for Pakistan I feel.

I think you are right. India has more to lose at the moment. Many Indians are seeing larger economy as a strength but in this situation it is a weakness. They can't afford to spook foreign investors and companies who have set up shop.

My thoughts are they will try a Trump style approach to squeeze Pakistan the way America is trying it with China i.e say to Arabs, US, Russia if you want to do business with us you can't do it with them. Whether it is successful or not is up for debate but it seems more likely than all out war.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thought the arabs hated Pakistan and loved the Indians

Just depends on which day's stories suit your narrative when you are a hindutva.

 

[Major]

Airspace shut for Indians. This will impact their airline companies

 

[JaDed]

Just depends on which day's stories suit your narrative when you are a hindutva.

Yes like Pakistanis on Zionist Media.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes like Pakistanis on Zionist Media.

Can I ask you since you were the one who initiated this media commentary, why would (according to you) NYT hate India since the 1970?