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Pakistan’s struggles against spin bowling

IAJ

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This is quite worrying. All the 3 wickets so far against AFG have gone to spinners. The wickets in the WC are getting tired and slower and the spinners will have alot to say going forward. The match against BD will be another test.

Fakhar is a walking wicket against any decent spin attack. He needs to be dropped against BD. Enough of waiting for «that fluke» innings again.

Imam’s dancing down the track was brainless.

Babar is not a good sweeper and his dismissal was on the card if he tried sweep again.

Being a SC-team we are a very ordinary against spinners.
 
It's been overrated for a long time. We struggle rotate strike against them , miss out on loose balls against them, and don't really use our feet against spin.
 
When you play so much FC cricket on damp and grassy wickets that don't break like Indian/SL surfaces then you don't encourage quality wrist spin so our batsmen aren't exposed to it.

Instead these wickets, like UAE, are suited for wicket to wicket darters like Imad. No flight, turn or guile is required - combined with inept umpiring you can just pick up LBWs and bowleds by the bucketload.
 
And now Hafeez falls to spin again too
 
Some rubbish shots tbh, they have to ability to handle the spin but no game plan against the slow bowlers. Hafeez and babars dismissals highlight that both good players of spin , comfortable ...comfortable then easy catch.
 
Our spinners look so innocuous. There is no way Afghanistan should have scored these many runs on this wicket
 
Our spinners look so innocuous. There is no way Afghanistan should have scored these many runs on this wicket

Pretty much, also the problem is Shadab bowling half his balls as full tosses. No control.
 
Pretty much, also the problem is Shadab bowling half his balls as full tosses. No control.

Every delivery by Rashid has looked wicket taking against the left handers, Shadab looked very manageable on these wickets which were assisting him.
 
Every delivery by Rashid has looked wicket taking against the left handers, Shadab looked very manageable on these wickets which were assisting him.

Hence why its poor they even got to 227. On such a pitch. And a shame Mir, Gohar weren't even given a chance.
 
Imad looks all at sea against spin and some people think he is good enough to bat in the middle order.
 
Considering every pundit and commentator keep mentioned oh he is great player of spin
oh so and so is master of playing spin
blah blah

Pakistan are getting out on these spins and cant even buy a run or score 3 or 4 an over.

You are an international player representing your nation and you can't play spin, you can't play pace, you can't play bounce then why are you out there!
 
Who plays spin well in this era? Do you think the likes of Lyon, Moeen Ali would have bowled this well against Younis Khan or Sehwag? Current generation of batsmen are poor players of spin all over the world, not just Pakistan. Look at Ajinkya Rahane for example. Dude comes from Mumbai whose Ranji side once beat the bejesus out of legend Shane Warne but cant play spin for his life.
 
Which team has played spin well? Everyone's struggled. Afghanistan took India to the last over as well. That's how it is on used pitches. It's always a low scoring affair.
 
Fakhar and Imad are good hitters, but have awful defense.

Imam and Shadab have okay defense, but have limited scoring shots.

Babar is bang average vs spinners.

Haris is great all-around vs spin. Best in the Pakistan team.

Hafeez and Sarfraz are very good vs spin.
 
Fakhar and Imad are good hitters, but have awful defense.

Imam and Shadab have okay defense, but have limited scoring shots.

Babar is bang average vs spinners.

Haris is great all-around vs spin. Best in the Pakistan team.

Hafeez and Sarfraz are very good vs spin.

I m not impress with haris against spin - he looks suspect - especially in the first few overs , i honestly thought he was more comfortable against spin
 
Lack of rotation is the problem , players like Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad were too good , the new batsmen has to look at how they used to play.
 
Nothing has changed.

We remain as bad against spin as we were last year and so on.
 
technical weakness combined with a timid approach, eventually resorting to low percentage shots
 
Struggles of Pak T20 batting vs wrist spin at home; something to look at for World T20 in India?

Pak's batting against spinners in last few months has been ordinary to say the least. Lets have some stats of the opposition spinners from the series in that time:


Wanindu Hasaranga; Leg spinner (Srl series)

Matches; 3, Wickets; 8, Average; 9.87, Economy; 6.58


Aminul Islam; Leg spinner (BD Series)

Matches; 2, Wickets; 1, Average; 44, Economy; 7.44


Tabraiz Shamsi; Chinaman

Matches; 3, Wickets 6, Average; 10.16, Economy; 5.08

Taking into account that how almost every team has a decent wrist spinner in their ranks, this is a big worry for Pakistan T20 side for the World T20 which is in India where there will be assistance.

This is something which needs to be worked upon as a priority in my opinion and coaches with national team and NCA need to look at these numbers and work upon the players. Also batting against some other spinners cant be called great as well but these numbers are really poor.
 
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Definitely a task at hand for Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousuf to help the players sort these issues out in upcoming months as you cant put up decent scores or chase them if wrist spinners can come up with such figures especially against sides with not much weakness in their bowling attacks.
 
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I think just in general, Pakistan have not done as well against spin in recent times. But then again, for a long time, in Test/ODI's/T20 there was Misbah/Malik/Hafeez/Younus who were excellent at destroying spinners. In recent era, guys like Sharjeel/Fakhar/Abid/Imam etc aren't that good or dynamic vs spin.

Probably should be a focus for the younger guys in Haider/Shadab etc to improve their skills vs spin bowling.
 
too little too late, you cant teach someone how to play spin in six months. when it comes to a pressure situation they will revert to their natural game, run down the pitch and get stumped.

paks only hope in world t20 will be to field 3 or 4 spinners and hope to choke the weaker teams to sub 130 scores so opposition spinners exert less pressure, and hope to get lucky in tougher games.
 
And it continues - Pakistan batsmen looking like kittens in front of England spinners.
 
6 overs from Rashid and Parkinson, 35 runs scored and 2 wickets taken so far.

Painful to watch.
 
Shoaib malik will be back for the t20 worldcup seeing this display against spin.
 
Alongside others, this is a big issue before the World T20 in UAE.

Everybody can have a weakness or two but, issue for me is that Pak team and coaches havent even worked upon what they have seen since 2019. Surely at this age they cant make all the bastmen into Yousuf or Younus against spin but, still I think its reasonable to expect that they can be worked upon to become decent.
 
Playing spin bowling is an art, an art which has undoubtedly been lost as time progressed. Our craze for hyping up the so-called "phast youngstas" has hurt our production of quality spinners.

Personally, I love batting against spin bowling, so from my own experience, it's mostly about watching the ball from the hand and just enjoying yourself manipulating the ball in different areas. Strike rotation is perhaps the most important aspect of facing spin bowling, because on most times, if you can pick up 4-6 runs from singles and doubles in the first 4 balls of a spinner's over, he will probably miss his length and allow you to drive or sweep him for a boundary.

Our batsmen play spin with stiff, locked wrists even when their intention is to rotate strike. That is the first mistake against any quality spinner, because if you don't have flexible wrists, you will be unable to guide the ball into gaps for runs.

Furthermore, on pitches when the ball is ripping and turning, the key is to understand when to be on the front foot and when to be on the back foot. Negotiating spin means that you need to be certain where the ball is pitching, because once you meet the ball before it lands, the whole element of the ball spinning is gone. Also, our batsmen need to learn how to guide the ball into good areas, on all sides of the wicket.

You can look at Babar and Rizwan and see how both are almost polar opposites against spin. Babar will try to push the ball into the V-region, whereas Rizwan will just make a deft touch and allow the ball to enter a gap. Both are good approaches for different situations, but you need to be able to do both in order to be successful against rotating strike against spin.

Now, hitting against spin is a different story. People say that using your feet is important, but our batsmen think of it in the incorrect way. Using your feet can be anything from charging towards the ball or even just moving on the back-foot to guide the ball away. In my opinion, unless the ball isn't turning at all, charging down the track usually ends better for the bowler, especially quality bowlers who watch the batsmen before delivering the ball. Once you've made your intention to charge down the track, the bowler who is smart enough to watch the batsman has a plethora of options to get you out. They could throw it wider and get a stumping, they could throw it between the bat-pad gap, they could bowl a literal half-tracker and get you to miss, or they could bowl a quicker, extra-full delivery and get you out. The risk-reward for charging down the track is quite poor, and though it looks beautiful when it works, it needs to be a calculated risk.

For example: the bowler bowls it fuller and you sweep him fine for four. He will now bowl it a bit flatter and more towards the off-side, whilst simultaneously pulling his length back, allowing you to advance and lift the ball over the in-field.

The slog-sweep is a great option against spinners in my opinion, it is minimal risk on wickets where the ball isn't spinning, and the only cause of concern is getting beaten in flight or by the pace on the ball.

One thing our batsmen have not learned is the reverse sweep. It is a great shot to get the bowler to bowl on your pads, because once he goes wide of off-stump, you can reverse him for an easy boundary and force him to bowl closer on the stumps, bringing the slog-sweep and conventional sweep into play.

The bottom line is that against good spinners, you need to be smarter than the bowler, and need to pressurize them into making mistakes. The best way to apply pressure is by picking out gaps for rotating strike, and then forcing the bowler to over-compensate to reduce the flow of runs, allowing you to find the boundary in a variety of patterns.

However, if you get stranded on the crease against a quality spinner, you can almost be certain that you will get out within the next few balls. That's the difference, that's the value of rotating strike. If you're waiting for the bad ball, you might get 7 runs from an over, but if you take singles and doubles on every ball, and subsequently punish the bad balls, you can get 10-12 runs and easily apply pressure on the bowler and opposition captain.

It's all a mental game.
 
And our problems continue - are we missing a batting coach here?
 
Yea it's an issue for us.most teams can't play quality spin. Quality pace and definitely not swing.
 
Where is the use of feet against spinners?

Wheres the basic common sense skill of using feet against spin?

How can you just keep sitting inside the crease trying to hoist it over the boundary line eachtime. Almost all top order got out in the same fashion like sitting ducks and also trying to hit towards the bigger boundary.

I'm baffled to say the least.
 
Pakistan always struggle against mystery spinners. Perhaps an off day too for Pak batsmen.
 
Pakistan always struggle against mystery spinners. Perhaps an off day too for Pak batsmen.

Mystery or ordinary, this new set of players struggle against all kind of spinners.

Sarfraz was the last real good player of spin we had and now we have only Shadab who is decent against spin and we are glad he will be back on Sunday when it really matters.
 
Pakistani batsman unconvincing against quality spin?

The struggles of Pakistani batsmen against decent spin bowlers in this Asia cup should be a cause of concern.

In fact, even before Asia cup it was observed that these batsmen aren't really at home when the opposition have quality spinners or when the pitch is conducive to spin bowling.

Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, Khushdil, Nawaz and ESPECIALLY Asif have be found wanting when it comes to overcoming the spin threat.

Going by previous few matches, only Iftikhar seems to be doing well against spin and Shadab has done well too.

This needs addressing even though the next t20 world cup is in Australia where it might not be a big problem.
 
The struggles of Pakistani batsmen against decent spin bowlers in this Asia cup should be a cause of concern.

In fact, even before Asia cup it was observed that these batsmen aren't really at home when the opposition have quality spinners or when the pitch is conducive to spin bowling.

Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar, Khushdil, Nawaz and ESPECIALLY Asif have be found wanting when it comes to overcoming the spin threat.

Going by previous few matches, only Iftikhar seems to be doing well against spin and Shadab has done well too.

This needs addressing even though the next t20 world cup is in Australia where it might not be a big problem.

The problem is the lack of quality spinners in our domestic cricket and the pitches to assist them. Can't expect to produce batsmen who can play quality spin well on conducive wickets when those spinners are non existent in our domestic cricket.
 
Spin troubles coming into play again. Even out best batter struggles against the Googly
 
All the more surprising because domestics have an epidemic of spin bowlers and 120kph pacers, which means these batsmen get decent practice.
 
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England spinners so far:

6-50-3

Pakistan clueless again.
 
We play spinners like they're bowling hand grenades. Shocking to see our minnow level spin playing abilities.
 
Shocking and worrying batting against spin.

If these are the standards of batting against benign spin bowling on flat pitches, what are these guys going to do on rank turners?
 
Nasser Hussain "Pakistan's openers aren't the problem. It's the middle-order, they aren't picking leg-spinners like Hasaranga in the Asia Cup and Adil Rashid today and that's where the wheels are coming off"
 
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It's been noticeable for some time with these Pakistan players ever since Hafeez retirement, Malik & Sarfaraz being discarded, this team has become very poor against spin. Almost associate level spin.
 
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Already told ya Rashid Etal will have their number which is evident our batting is complete crap except Babar but himself is also clueless against spin
 
The batters need to start using thier feet to get forward and back.At the moment it's okay from the creese.
 
The batsman dont have the confidence to take on the spinners. Babar is too negative against the spinners and lets them bowl and settle into a line. Riz showed some intent but the rest look lost against any half decent spinner.
 
Nasser Hussain "Pakistan's openers aren't the problem. It's the middle-order, they aren't picking leg-spinners like Hasaranga in the Asia Cup and Adil Rashid today and that's where the wheels are coming off"

Yes and no. The openers get in and then worry about their stats which leads safety first cricket. Generally the problem comes when we bat 1st or against a guy that does something slightly unusual.
 
The batsman dont have the confidence to take on the spinners. Babar is too negative against the spinners and lets them bowl and settle into a line. Riz showed some intent but the rest look lost against any half decent spinner.

Aligned. Who do you think in current domestic setup has the ability to dominate spin, play sweep/reverse sweep, use the crease etc.
 
Aligned. Who do you think in current domestic setup has the ability to dominate spin, play sweep/reverse sweep, use the crease etc.

And this is the worse part bar Malik no one but as we know teams are using stats for match ups so as soon as he comes the pacer will be on for him. It shows the appalling level of our batting that spinners that we should eat up are making total muppets of our poor batsman
 
Nasser Hussain "Pakistan's openers aren't the problem. It's the middle-order, they aren't picking leg-spinners like Hasaranga in the Asia Cup and Adil Rashid today and that's where the wheels are coming off"

A massive oversimplification by Nasser there IMO. The openers rarely get to flashing starts like they had today and even when they do, it's only for a few overs before they start playing safety first cricket again.

There isn't really a solution to this dilemma unfortunately. Both Babar and Rizwan are at their best playing at the top and it's fair to say both have individually earnt their right to bat at the top despite them not necessarily complementing each other.

Our middle order is indeed shambles right now and it's crucial we get some proper batsmen in there rather than bits and pieces so called power hitters in Khushdil, Iftikhar and Asif. Play one of those 3 but not all 3. Bring in the likes of Haris Sohail, Shoaib Malik who atleast are proper middle order batsmen whether we like them or not. It's too late to bring in a completely new face so I would personally resort to these more experienced players.

My line up for the world cup would be:

Babar
Rizwan
Fakhar/Shan
Haris Sohail
Shoaib Malik
Asif Ali/Iftikhar
Shadab
Nawaz/Faheem
Shaheen
Rauf
Naseem
 
A massive oversimplification by Nasser there IMO. The openers rarely get to flashing starts like they had today and even when they do, it's only for a few overs before they start playing safety first cricket again.

There isn't really a solution to this dilemma unfortunately. Both Babar and Rizwan are at their best playing at the top and it's fair to say both have individually earnt their right to bat at the top despite them not necessarily complementing each other.

Our middle order is indeed shambles right now and it's crucial we get some proper batsmen in there rather than bits and pieces so called power hitters in Khushdil, Iftikhar and Asif. Play one of those 3 but not all 3. Bring in the likes of Haris Sohail, Shoaib Malik who atleast are proper middle order batsmen whether we like them or not. It's too late to bring in a completely new face so I would personally resort to these more experienced players.

My line up for the world cup would be:

Babar
Rizwan
Fakhar/Shan
Haris Sohail
Shoaib Malik
Asif Ali/Iftikhar
Shadab
Nawaz/Faheem
Shaheen
Rauf
Naseem

A 41 year old Shoaib Malik is not the answer. We have to learn to do without him no matter how painful the process. It's not like we have set the world on fire with Malik in the team.
 
Qasim Akram would do so much better than all of these guys against spin. He is young and fit, so he fits the criteria of selection.
 
We are horrible against all good bowlers.

Period.

Safety first approach.

Build forever.

And let the other 6 batsmen go crazy in trying to set the total.

It is a failed mechanism and will keep on failing till Pakistan understands that T20 Cricket is about fast 20s and 30s and its better to be 170/8 than 160/3 at the end of 20.
 
maybe they are rubbish at playing spin because there are no quality spinners in domestic. two sides of the same coin.

playing spin is a technical skill which you learn in your teens, very rarely do batsmen who struggle against spin develop a technique to deal with mid-way through their careers.

pak just need to wait and hope that someone from the young batch of batsmen coming through have skills to play spin, i think hurraira does from what i saw of him last year in qae highlghts.
 
Just checked the OP is from 3 years ago. Nothing much changed there then. :91:

The batters need to start using thier feet to get forward and back.At the moment it's okay from the creese.

It's shocking to watch, I've never seen a Pakistan side as weak against spin as this.

The solution definitely involves better, more decisive footwork. The worst thing you can do is being caught in that in-between zone where you're neither fully forward or back.
 
maybe they are rubbish at playing spin because there are no quality spinners in domestic. two sides of the same coin.

playing spin is a technical skill which you learn in your teens, very rarely do batsmen who struggle against spin develop a technique to deal with mid-way through their careers.

pak just need to wait and hope that someone from the young batch of batsmen coming through have skills to play spin, i think hurraira does from what i saw of him last year in qae highlghts.

Agreed, Pakistan spin is really poor domestically. Finally have a mystery spinner in Abrar at least that's come up but it's crazy how Pakistan have struggled in this department from years & decades of having good spinners & batters who dominated spin. All the spinners that are coming up seem to be mostly left-arm off spin too.
 
Footwork seems hesitant these days from the Pakistani batters.

That never used to be the case - Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Younis Khan, Inzamam, Yousuf etc could play spinners with their eyes closed.
 
Footwork seems hesitant these days from the Pakistani batters.

That never used to be the case - Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Younis Khan, Inzamam, Yousuf etc could play spinners with their eyes closed.

the batsman u mentioned were excellent at tgetting forward very aggressively without leaving the crease against good length spin.

nowadays u can almost see the countdown, come forward, not quite to the pitch, hesitant shot, go back nudge a few singles, miss a quicker one, survive an lbw shout, come down the track and get stumped or skew it to a fielder off the outside edge.

it bamboozles me how someone like muheeb ur rehman and theekshana completely dominates Pakistan when it was Pakistan who were the first team to learnt to counter ajantha mendis.
 
Pakistan are as bad as England or AUstralia when playing against Leg Spin and mystery spinners. I have seen this in 90's too. But they do play off spinners and left arm orthodox well.
 
maybe they are rubbish at playing spin because there are no quality spinners in domestic. two sides of the same coin.

playing spin is a technical skill which you learn in your teens, very rarely do batsmen who struggle against spin develop a technique to deal with mid-way through their careers.

pak just need to wait and hope that someone from the young batch of batsmen coming through have skills to play spin, i think hurraira does from what i saw of him last year in qae highlghts.

Yes he's brilliant player of spin.
 
It's shocking to watch, I've never seen a Pakistan side as weak against spin as this.

The solution definitely involves better, more decisive footwork. The worst thing you can do is being caught in that in-between zone where you're neither fully forward or back.

Definitely they don't know how to play the sweep or reverse sweep only Rizwan knows how to play that in the current team and sarfraz when he was in the team.
 
Agreed, Pakistan spin is really poor domestically. Finally have a mystery spinner in Abrar at least that's come up but it's crazy how Pakistan have struggled in this department from years & decades of having good spinners & batters who dominated spin. All the spinners that are coming up seem to be mostly left-arm off spin too.

What is Abrars mystery ball ?
 
Don't know about you, feels weird to be outspun by England on our home turf. I mean this used to be a team that was renowned for not being able to play spin or produce decent spin bowlers.
 
Don't know about you, feels weird to be outspun by England on our home turf. I mean this used to be a team that was renowned for not being able to play spin or produce decent spin bowlers.

Under Mickey, Babar used to school Adil Rashid. He was always very good against him but recently Babar just cannot pick the wrongun or leg spinner of any decent leggie

Rashid Khan
Hasaranga
Adil Rashid

All have toyed with Babar from recent memory
 
I was always surprised why Pakistan struggled against spin.

As a subcontinent team, they should thrive against spin. But, they tend to do better against pacers.
 
So many Asian batsmen rely on wrists against spinners which is good for singles/doubles but it doesn't produce boundaries. Meanwhile, we see SENA batsmen often sweeping spinners, reverse sweeps and smoking shots over cover. It's hardly something that's seen from our batsmen nowadays. Rizwan will try sweeps or try to dabble it down to third man and move around the crease to create hassle for the spinners but he isn't quite great at executing sweeps despite his attempts.

It's a good point with domestic being littered with mediocre spinners and hence, why Pakistani batsmen of this generation struggle against but good at pace because their domestic players are littered with fast bowlers.

My guess is naturally, a lot of batsmen including batsmen outside of Pakistan spend most of their & craft honing their skills vs pace instead of spin. A lot of the training is playing through the line to hit the pacers out of the ground. So no matter how fast it is, batsmen of these times can smash anything but they're finding it harder to navigate spin, at least in terms of scoring runs. Players may not get out much against spin but almost every batsmen nowadays has a lower SR vs spin than pace.
 
Top order removed by Bracewell and Santner in NZ within 10 overs! Our struggles against spin are real
 
It always like that!!! Kumble got 10 wickets against us, Muralidharan, Warne used get lot of wickets. So as part timer like North.... Being Asian team we are similar to Bangladesh when we play spin.
 
Unless you have proper batter like India, Australia or even SL you will always fail against spin. India could play Warne, Murali even close eyes.
 
When Pakistan had wristy players they had great players of spin. Current Pakistan batsmen are not that wristy. Babar plays everything in straight line. Even he misses the flair associated with say Saeed Anwar. Rizwan is a percentage onside player. Not wristy. Entire middle order is very poor.
 
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